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Thread: Focal vs. CDT |
    
New member Username: Danh
Post Number: 5
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:56 am: |
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To branch off my previous post, I'm searching for replacement 6.5s and at the moment, Focal has to be the better sounding speakers I've listened to.
I hear a lot of great things about CDT, but all the reviews and such have always centered their component systems with only a little mention of their coax (namely that they're made).
1) What CDT models compare to the Focal Access 165 CA1 and the Focal Polyglass 165 CV1?
2) How are those models different than the Focals? Both Focals are excellent in reproducing the nunances of the piece I'm playing while the CV1 is a bit more in the low end while the CA1 is more toward the higher end in the spectrum.
Both of these will be powered by a 75x4ch RMS at 4Ohms, and any suggestions as to what amplifer to get will be appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: Bnd_rulez
Phoenix,
AZ
USA
Post Number: 1224
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 01:00 pm: |
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I am currently using the Polyglass coaxial right now. It is a great speaker. I only have a set in my front doors and nothing in the rear doors of an Explorer, along with a my sub. Honestly, you don't need rear speakers with them.
Do you have a sub?
Have you heard of Image Dynamics? Their coaxs are similar in price to Focals. They have great sound quality speakers too. |
Bronze Member Username: Exige
Post Number: 65
Registered: Nov-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 03:07 pm: |
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The reason you don't hear much about coaxials is for one specific reason....they're not made to be a primetime speaker. when people get serious about sound quality, coaxials don't factor into the equation. the reason that coaxials exist is for simplicity. it is to combine the tweeter and midrange into one speaker so that you don't have to mount them separately of one another.
when someone is looking for sound quality, they look at component speakers. this is why CDT focuses here. and honestly, almost all other companies do the same....their nice speakers are their component sets...the coaxials exist simply to exist and be an extra option for convenience. i would be Focal is the same way as any other company out there.
so enough about coax vs. comp. if a consumer is serious about SQ, they go for components.
now...the first point is to talk budget....what is your budget? last i checked the 165 CV1's retailed for a little under $300? i can't quite remember, please let me know what your budget is.
second point...Focal and CDT are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Focal is typically considered a very bright speaker, and to many people, harsh. Some people like this sound, others don't. It is all dependent on your ear.
CDT is a mellower sound. They're known for their silk tweeters which never get harsh or bright. If you hear a high note and it makes you wince cause it hurts your ears, that's considered bright or harsh. So if you're not familiar with the terminology, then there you go. That's the type of sound Focal can sometimes have.
CDT has a couple different options for tweeters, silk is not the only one. There's aluminum (higher-end only) and titanium tweeters that are also available. The titanium one might be more towards your taste.
Last few questions... (1) What is limiting you to a coaxial speaker...is it simplicity or price? I would recommend a component set if you can step up to it. (2) Why 75x4? Are you running two different sets, or are you only looking for one set? If one set, you only need a 2 channel amp. Secondly, don't buy an amp before you choose your speakers. There's millions of options for amps, many will fit your needs. However, this is not the case with speakers. Every speaker is different and the speakers should be chosen first. |
Gold Member Username: Bnd_rulez
Phoenix,
AZ
USA
Post Number: 1240
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 03:15 pm: |
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^^Hit the nail on the head. |
New member Username: Danh
Post Number: 6
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:21 am: |
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Do you have a sub?
I don't and I don't plan on getting one since I can make my car rattle with the two pair of Polk db650s I have now, I don't want to kill more of my small trunk space. Plus a Sub would send me over my budget.
Have you heard of Image Dynamics? Their coaxs are similar in price to Focals. They have great sound quality speakers too.
I've seen the name, but I haven't looked or listened to them at all.
now...the first point is to talk budget....what is your budget? last i checked the 165 CV1's retailed for a little under $300? i can't quite remember, please let me know what your budget is.
The budget is $200 per speaker pair and up to $250-300 for amp plus whatever installation is. The CV1s sticker at $300, but they can be bought from $200-250 a pair.
second point...Focal and CDT are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Focal is typically considered a very bright speaker, and to many people, harsh. Some people like this sound, others don't. It is all dependent on your ear.
Compared to all the speakers I've listened to (Polk, Boston, Infiniti, Alpine, Pioneer Premier, Diamond, JL Audio, Memphis), they've sounded the warmest and most well rounded out of what I've heard so far.
(1) What is limiting you to a coaxial speaker...is it simplicity or price? I would recommend a component set if you can step up to it.
It's the car. My 95 Civic has four 6.5 speaker mounts and I don't want to drill into my car doors or A-pillar and buying components that have screw in tweeters for extra cash seems redundant. Also, since the 2 front speakers are down in the kick panels, I do need rear speakers, although I'll probably go for a lesser line of speakers for the rear.
Also, I know it is a mortal sin for home theater, but is it a good idea to mix speaker brands for a car as well?
(2) Why 75x4? Are you running two different sets, or are you only looking for one set? If one set, you only need a 2 channel amp. Secondly, don't buy an amp before you choose your speakers.
All of the speakers I've looked at to replace to Polks (which could use an amp as well) run somewhere between 60-100 watts RMS and my Sony head unit runs about 17x4 RMS. I've looked at amps and priced some, but I'll buy the speakers and the amps at the same time. |
New member Username: Ewok
Fairbanks,
Alaska
U.S.A.
Post Number: 8
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 04:34 am: |
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i like the focal 165 a1 access component, just got it today and they are nice but dont know how the quality will be, will find out next day |
Bronze Member Username: Amish
Riverside,
CA
Post Number: 25
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 11:10 am: |
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I've audtitioned Focal, Diamond Audio, CDT, Dynaudio, Infinity, and Morel when looking for new speakers for my front stage in my suv. Of all those I enjoyed the Diamond Audio, CDT, and Dynaudio the most. I decided on CDT. I love the silk tweeters. Great speakers that really please my ears. I also invested in CDT's upstage kit and my front stage is amazing. Music comes at me from the windshield and blends perfectly with the comps in the doors. Add my sealed SS RL-p 15" and the soundstage is beautiful. Dripping in sq. |
Gold Member Username: Nd4spd18
Northwest PA
Post Number: 6020
Registered: Jul-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 02:58 pm: |
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^^^^ Holy sh!t thats a sweet system |
Silver Member Username: Exige
Post Number: 105
Registered: Nov-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 03:56 pm: |
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awesome man...which CDT's did you choose? nice sub there ;) |
Bronze Member Username: Amish
Riverside,
CA
Post Number: 28
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 04:32 pm: |
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'^^^^ Holy sh!t thats a sweet system'
are you refering to my system? If so Thanks!!
'awesome man...which CDT's did you choose? nice sub there ;)'
CDT Audio ES-610 EuroSport with TW-25 Soft Dome Tweeter CDT Audio ES-620 GOLD comps CDT Audio UP-224 Upstage System Running off an Orion 8004 |
Gold Member Username: Nd4spd18
Northwest PA
Post Number: 6034
Registered: Jul-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 08:34 pm: |
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Yeah I meant yours....... thats all top of line SQ equipment you got there. |
Bronze Member Username: Amish
Riverside,
CA
Post Number: 29
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 11:51 pm: |
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Thanks M.S. When I built it I was aiming for total SQ. |
Bronze Member Username: Ewok
Fairbanks,
Alaska
U.S.A.
Post Number: 19
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 05:20 am: |
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i dont think you would wanna upgrade for the next many year, because what you have, is a total sq set, big respect peace. |
Bronze Member Username: Msgtpogi
NJ
Post Number: 18
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 09:12 pm: |
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I've heard 6.5"coaxs from JLAudio with silk tweeters. Very nice sound, sweet yet detailed and very dynamic. Silk tweeters seem to be a nice feature.
I have heard a set of Focal 6.5" coaxs that I was comparing to a similar set from Alumapro. They both had excellent sound but the Alumapro was more dynamic, especially in the bass. Both presented detail very well. The Focals mids were slightly clearer (or more prominent). The Focals bass was louder but the Alumapros had better bass drum kick. For the dance and rock music I prefer to listen to, they were the better speaker and were about $150 cheaper to boot. They are pretty hard to find though.
I also heard newer Morels. Didn't like the muffled, dark sounding ones I heard. But, if you can score old Morel Integras, they are some of the best coax speakers ever made (an opinion that was apparently shared by a 30-year veteran of the car audio industry, he also recommended old school Soundstream, R-Fosgate and PPI amps). |
Silver Member Username: Exige
Post Number: 107
Registered: Nov-07
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| Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 12:29 am: |
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chuck...who was the dealer....sound like woofers, etc? |
Bronze Member Username: Ewok
Fairbanks,
Alaska
U.S.A.
Post Number: 21
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 05:38 am: |
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I've heard 6.5"coaxs from JLAudio with silk tweeters. Very nice sound, sweet yet detailed and very dynamic. Silk tweeters seem to be a nice feature,
i hear that bro, but we like components stuff and not coax |
Bronze Member Username: Msgtpogi
NJ
Post Number: 20
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 09:00 am: |
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Components are very nice but they present their own problems. The soundstage acts funny because usually the tweeters are physically too far from the mid-woofer and there is a discontinuity. Instruments that have to be reproduced by both drivers suddenly jump up or down in the soundstage. And crossovers for such speakers do not account for such time delays, response variations, etc. Plus instalation is more complex in a component system (more $$$)
Coaxs are not perfect but they don't have those problems (or at least they are theoretically less because of the closeness of the drivers). Yes, your soundstage will be lower but at least the sound is more coherent in a well designed coax. YMMV.
I've had both. Car audio is a full of compromises so the best solution is the one with the compromises you can live with. |
Bronze Member Username: Amish
Riverside,
CA
Post Number: 36
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 11:40 am: |
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Exige Audio:
The dealer I auditioned at was a local so cal dealer where I live but once I decided on what I wanted I actually did buy the CDT's at woofers etc.
During the install I modified the frame to hold both the mid-woofer and the tweeter:
Also i agree that with comps the tweetwer should be placed very close to the woofer for best sound. I have all my comps close together. My upstage kit is the exception and is mounted on my dash aimed at my windshield.
 |
Silver Member Username: Exige
Post Number: 109
Registered: Nov-07
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| Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 10:20 pm: |
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lookin good chuck! |
Bronze Member Username: Ewok
Fairbanks,
Alaska
U.S.A.
Post Number: 26
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 04:51 am: |
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hey i always believe that buying a set of component is for separating the mids and highs like atleast 1 feet from one another, i mean thats why its a comp and not coax, seriously though correct me if im wrong, and this goes out to all audiophiles....... |
Gold Member Username: Bnd_rulez
Phoenix,
AZ
USA
Post Number: 1424
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 10:05 am: |
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Depends on installation and pieces. If your woofer is in the bottom of the door, you don't really want the tweeter all the way down with. Some sets play better off axis than others. Good general rule of thumb is to keep the tweeter within about 6" pf the woofer. |
Gold Member Username: Nd4spd18
Northwest PA
Post Number: 6082
Registered: Jul-06
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| Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 04:11 pm: |
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It is ideal to have the tweeter as close to the midrange as possible. Problem is, if you have the mid in the bottom of the door, you don't want the tweeter that low as it will sound like the music is coming from the floor.
Then you have to mount it higher, and compromise a little. |
Bronze Member Username: Msgtpogi
NJ
Post Number: 23
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 04:56 pm: |
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Sorry, I drive a Miata so my coax setup on the lower door doesn't present a basement soundtstage because the angle "looking down" isn't that great compared to many other cars.
As far as distance between drivers, the closer the tweeter and mid-bass are, the better, because driver integration problems (there are many) are minimized. As a few, including myself have mentioned, pick the set of compromises you can live with. If you are expecting audiophile perfection in a car audio environment, you'd have to tear apart the car interior, spend $$$$$$ and maybe get to 80% of perfect. |
Gold Member Username: Bnd_rulez
Phoenix,
AZ
USA
Post Number: 1431
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 10:03 am: |
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You know it's sad but true. |
