6.5 Speaker Questions

New member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 04:08 am:

I'm going to be replacing my 4 Polks with something better in a few months and I need to know what to look for.

I don't want to spend more than $200 a pair and they need to be coaxial because I don't have a spot for the tweeters. I will also be buying a 4 channel amp as well so please take that into consideration.

I've looked around and I like the JL Audio TR and VR series, and the Infinity Kappa 62.7 were OK. I've heard excellent things about MB Quart, but I haven't heard any of them around here.

What other brands should I look at? Are Memphis or Pioneer Audio worth looking at? Any ideas you can give would be appreciated.

Relevant Product Info

Gold Member

Username: Bnd_rulez

Phoenix, AZ
USA

Post Number: 1204
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 03:20 pm:

4 speakers? You'd be better off just buying 1 good set and powering them properly because it will sound better.

As far as the tweeter goes, I am in the same boat as you. I don't want to cut up my doors again. I was looking at CDT braxials because they are a component set but the tweeter is mounted to the mid. Check them out at http://www.cdtaudio.com/braxialadvantages.htm

I have heard nothing but great reviews for CDT and they can be had for about $200. Slap a good powering amp on em and they will sing better then 4 speakers.

Just my thoughts.

If that doesn't suit you, I would stick with the JL or maybe some Alpines as Infinity is not that great.

New member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 2
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 05:22 pm:

Well, there's two speakers up front and two on the rear deck. Those are what I'll be replacing.

Has anyone heard anything good about the Pioneer Premiers at all? And what would be a good 4 channel amp?

Gold Member

Username: Bnd_rulez

Phoenix, AZ
USA

Post Number: 1211
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:45 pm:

Take a look at this http://www.glasswolf.net/caraudio/rearfill.html

Rear speakers are not really ideal, they only detract from the front soundstage.

The Pioneers aren't anything special. If you want good coaxials the JL will probably be your best bet.

D-money

Silver Member

Username: Basebalz13

Moneta, Va
Usa

Post Number: 233
Registered: Aug-07

Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:55 pm:

PG rsds6.5's FTW

Silver Member

Username: Mrsq

California

Post Number: 159
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:31 am:

yes i think the premier has some best sq like the ts-c701prs components, but heres what i have from kenwoods emotional series which is only out in japan, the sound produces lifelike sound as if you have band playing in front of you, detail and clarity is great, this is the K- eso1 series Upload

New member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 3
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 10:03 am:

So even with my front speakers buried in the floor boards, things will sound better with a nice pair of coax up front and pair of midrange drivers in back?

Silver Member

Username: Drant19

DUB-C, TX

Post Number: 231
Registered: Aug-07

Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 01:05 pm:

get a good set of components for the front. if you really want something in the rear deck then get some simple 2way coax's.

get an amp tho, it will sound like night and day!

a lot of people on here will say just scratch the rear speakers. if you want to go that route, you can get some good quality comps and a 2channel amp for them. your never hear the speakers in the rear anyway. all the sound should be coming infront of you

Gold Member

Username: Bnd_rulez

Phoenix, AZ
USA

Post Number: 1218
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 01:55 pm:

A set of speakers with 150w in front of you is better than 2 sets with 75w surrounding you.

As for the Pioneers, he was talking about coaxials, and Pioneers coaxials aren't anything special.

Silver Member

Username: Drant19

DUB-C, TX

Post Number: 234
Registered: Aug-07

Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 02:03 pm:

pioneer premier ts-720prs are great sounding comps! i heard a set with 75rms going to them and they were loud, crisp, and great midbass.

"A set of speakers with 150w in front of you is better than 2 sets with 75w surrounding you"

x2

zezter

Bronze Member

Username: Zester

Gardena , California

Post Number: 30
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 03:18 pm:

a nice set of components will do it and dont forget atleast a 2 channel amp 50watts x2 at 4ohms rms, to get a clean sound,

Silver Member

Username: Mrsq

California

Post Number: 163
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 04:23 pm:

components are the best package, if you want frontstaging, forget the rear

Silver Member

Username: Drant19

DUB-C, TX

Post Number: 253
Registered: Aug-07

Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 06:50 pm:

if you want a good 2channel amp for cheap. look for a kicker refurb on ebay! may not look new, but it will perform new and comes with a birthsheet

New member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 4
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:34 pm:

I would like to thank all of you for the help. I do have one other question:

Would you consider CDT Speakers (namely the CL-EX6 or CL-61EV) equivalent to the Focal speakers close to the same type or better? I know they want a bit more power than them, but do they give a better sound?

Silver Member

Username: Drant19

DUB-C, TX

Post Number: 264
Registered: Aug-07

Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 02:04 am:

there are some CDT dealers. Exige and AlterAudio. they would be more than qualified to answer any questions you have about those specific speakers. they might even know something in the same price range that will be better. i suggest making a new thread like "CDT SPEAKERS" or something that will catch their eye.

just my .02

Silver Member

Username: Mrsq

California

Post Number: 167
Registered: May-06

Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 06:08 am:

my comps are one of the best out thier and thats the truth, its the k-eso1 series, check this out bro Upload

Silver Member

Username: Drant19

DUB-C, TX

Post Number: 268
Registered: Aug-07

Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 04:25 pm:

"my comps are one of the best out thier and thats the truth"

New member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 7
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 03:29 pm:

Back onto the CDT question, are the convertible component speakers better sounding than their regular coaxial?

Gold Member

Username: Bnd_rulez

Phoenix, AZ
USA

Post Number: 1269
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 04:02 pm:

Components > coaxial. Plain and simple.

New member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 8
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 04:30 pm:

The bit that isn't sinking into my head is why are component speakers from the same line (for instance JL Audio TR component vs. TR coaxial) are better than the coax. Besides the fact that you can take them out later and put them into another car that has separate tweeters and such, how is it are they better?

Is it the crossover bit? And if so, how are components better than coaxial with crossovers (like the JL XR series)?

Bronze Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 74
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 05:39 pm:

Because in a coaxial, the tweeter is mounted essentially IN the cone of the midrange. It's a major disturbance speaker as a whole. It messes up the response of the speaker. Secondly, by mounting the tweeter at your feet or where ever the speaker is mounted...and having no ability to aim it (15 degrees of adjustment does not count)....the tweeter location flat out sucks....typically it's firing straight into the passenger footwell, nowhere near your ears. Being able to aim the tweeter to create the best soundstage for your acoustic environment is what makes a component set great.

The crossover issue mentioned with regards to the JL XR is a non-issue if the crossovers are the same.

With regards to convertible vs. coaxial and CDT....I have a different recommendation..braxial. Braxial allows for a bracket that the tweeter mounts. What this does is it takes the tweeter out of the midrange's cone....significantly helping the midrange's sound. Beyond that, it allows for better aiming abilities than a convertible or coaxial. If your car is like mine, a small coupe with speaker mounting location close to the mid-section of the door... then the tweeter mounted near the midrange is not a bad thing at all...it's one of the more optimal point available for MY specific acoustic environment.

Everyone's acoustic environments in their car is different though. Component with separate tweeter location typically offers the best response. Braxial is typically a convenience thing. I'm one of the lucky ones where it combines convenience and optimal response.

Bronze Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 75
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 05:41 pm:

It should be noted that its not optimal to aim the tweeters right at your ears. A statement in my previous post read differently than I intended for it to.

New member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 9
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 06:51 pm:

So in your opinion, how much better do the CL-61CV series sound over the CL-6EX?

And do both of those pale in comparison to the Braxial or the HD-63?

New member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 10
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 08:27 am:

Here's a worry I have with the Braxials: How deep are they and will the fit in front speaker mounts for a 95 Honda Civic? Anyone know where to find such information?

Bronze Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 76
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 03:25 pm:

pesonally i wouldnt even look at the CL line..seems like you have the funds to step it up to the EF line...that's what i would do if i were you.

HD>EF>CL

I cant even remember if we discussed proper soundstage or not yet but rear speakers can color the sound in a very negative way. I typically suggest forgoing the rear speakers and spending twice as much on the fronts. You'll hear the effects of that in a much more positive way.

With the braxial stuff...it's not a matter of depth. If you're worried about depth, you simply have to look at the mounting depth of the midrange driver...that's what your mounting depth is gonna be.

This is what the braxial setup looks like if you've never seen it before:

[img]http://cdtaudio.com/cdt_new_0107/M6-brax..jpg[/img]

Bronze Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 77
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 03:28 pm:

Bronze Member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 11
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 08:26 pm:

It's not so much the mounting depth I'm worried about on the Braxials, it's getting the speaker cover back over it when it's installed. All of the installed pictures I've seen of the Braxials are all uncovered.

M.S.

Gold Member

Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5800
Registered: Jul-06

Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 09:12 pm:

msrq:

Your speakers are not the best out there, they're kenwoods. Stop posting them in every damn speaker thread. What other speakers have you heard to compare them to. Do tell us, I'd really like to know.

Silver Member

Username: Mrsq

California

Post Number: 196
Registered: May-06

Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 11:32 pm:

ok i can compare it to ts-c720prs premier, and mb quarts, focal,, see this is what happens one forum is so stuck with a certain speakers like cdt, when some1 talks about it and say its good then every1 else is gonna go with the flow even though most of them has never even heard how it sounds like and thats the cdt, you M.S. , you dont like kens because of bad experience, and so other people talks negative about it but you have to know one thing, this k-eso1 is different from all the comps that they made, listen to it first then you can judge, peace

M.S.

Gold Member

Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 5810
Registered: Jul-06

Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 01:42 am:

When I say the CDTs are one of the best out there at their price, thats from a LOT of first hand experience, as I run a set in my own vehicle.

I also praise other brands that I've heard and was impressed by, like rainbow, diamond, focal, etc.

I will say this: I've never heard that specific set. But judging from everything else I've seen from kenwood, I'm skeptical of them.

Silver Member

Username: Mrsq

California

Post Number: 197
Registered: May-06

Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 03:40 am:

ok i respect that, my bad

Bronze Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 81
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 05:18 am:

i normally don't join in company bashings...but to let truth be told..kenwood's gotta prove themselves first. they make some decent head units...some of their high end excelon stuff was really nice. but their amps have constantly overheated on me (had a 9102 a while back along with an 840-somethin...4 channel is all i remember). the reason that no one hear is takin you seriously about this is simply because kenwood hasn't put out a serious SQ speaker or sub before. we're not sayin they can't...they just simply havent. considering that the speakers you mention of are available only in japan or somethin...whatever you mentioned earlier...it just makes it harder to grasp.

i'm happy to give kenwood a chance...its just that up to this point they havent proven themselves. if they can build a solid product, then awesome. i'd appreciate some more mainstream companies building decent stuff. seems like alpine and pioneer are the only 2 doin it these days (JL of course also). we simply need to get a first hand listen to the k-eso 1's. it's very possible that they could be as good as you say..but we just need to hear them. there's no offense meant to you in any way at all.

Bronze Member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 12
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 03:28 pm:

And marching further into "The Retards Guide to Car Audio," what is the difference between the EF-63 (What is the EF series anyway? I didn't see it on the CDT website), the HD-63, and the HD-63Z (or ES-630 since it's around the same price)?

Since we're also in my general idiots guide, how do the upper JL Audio offerings like the XR-650CXi and the C5-650X sound in comparison to the lower TR series, the CDT speakers above, and even the two Focal types of coax?

Bronze Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 82
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 12:19 am:

k this has the possibility of being a really long answer so ill try to make it as brief as possible.

EF is a division of the CL series....regardless of the notation, it really is worthy of its own level though. it's a significant step up over the CL series.

it's denoted as CL-EF on the CDT website (by the way...all who find the CDT website absolutely worthless, feel free to send a short email to info@cdtaudio.com ...we've (as in some of the dealers) have been trying to get the site revamped for a while but its gonna take customer input as well...it surely needs a thorough makeover)

So EF is mid-line CDT, HD is upper line, ES is top line.

I really wish woofersetc.com didn't exist at times because they throw so many questions into customers heads about what's current. half the stuff on their site is NOT current product...the ES-630 being one of those. The ES-62i is the current top of the line CDT set, and was an upgrade over the ES-620.

Every step up is gonna provide better sound all around. Better midbass, better midrange, better treble.

I can't compare the JL line for you as I haven't personally done a comparison of their whole line. Lastly, difference between Focal and CDT has been established so I won't rehash that. I will not compare coaxial to component. They're on two separate levels. The difference between the two has also already been detailed in the Focal vs. CDT thread.

Silver Member

Username: Mrsq

California

Post Number: 201
Registered: May-06

Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 05:27 am:

Exige Audio, i understand where you coming from, yes kenwood has to prove themselves, too bad its only out in japan, you know to be honest with yall, i was realy never a fan of kens stuff, but my uncle that is residing their just happens to buy me the k-eso1 comps for my bday and i was happy offcourse,its a gift, so i gave it a try and most of my audiophile friends was astonish with the sq, i mean its not the best, i just happend to experience it and like to pass the news, and by the way i have much respect with the CDT speakers, those are magical sq set.

Thomas Perry

New member

Username: Theperry

Worthing, Sussex
United Kingdom

Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 01:55 pm:

heyy ive got thloudest 400watts 6.5inch front speakers in my fiat punto. fitted them and everythin and then 2days later theyve both stopped working as the same time any ideas?

Thomas Perry

New member

Username: Theperry

Worthing, Sussex
United Kingdom

Post Number: 2
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 01:57 pm:

ohh and im not runnin them with an amp

Bronze Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 84
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 03:06 pm:

thomas plz make a new thread listing type of speakers, how they're run, what aftermarket equipment is being used...etc. this thread has already become full of off topic stuff....lets keep the clutter out.

Thomas Perry

New member

Username: Theperry

Worthing, Sussex
United Kingdom

Post Number: 3
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 04:17 pm:

6.5" 2way co-axoial speakers, i have just done a str8 swap for the orginal door speakers thinking this would b ok so they r jst running straight off the head unit.

Bronze Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 87
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 07:02 pm:

thomas check your wiring and your head unit. if that doesnt work...plz dont post about this issue in this thread anymore. please make a new thread like i asked you to before. this thread is about choosing new components and has already been cluttered with information that has no pertinence to the original poster's search for new speakers.

Bronze Member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 13
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 09:25 pm:

Well, I did send in an email to CDT and got a reply back from John at CDT support saying that they're planning to start a redesign in February. At least it's something. He was also nice enough to run down some things about the speaker line as well. Is it worth it in my case if I buy an HD-63 to upgrade to the SX1000 crossover as well or is that just a waste of money?

Are there any recommended amplifiers to use with the HD line? Can they get by with just 150 watts RMS or do they really need the 180 watts to sound right?

Bronze Member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 14
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 09:31 pm:

Also, which would be the better (and cheaper) route to go: Buying the HD-63 braxial or buying the ES-6 driver and the Braxial upgrade kit?

Advantage/Disadvantages are appreciated.

Bronze Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 96
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 10:36 pm:

The HD and ES lines are two things first of all. HD is high end CDT, ES is competition grade and has a 10-year warranty.

560i is enough for most people, SX1000 is gonna give you a lot of extra controls if you're into fine-tuning and such.

HD can get by with 150w. Typically I recommend around 200 or so for them though. The most economical but sturdy 2-channel amp I've found for that power is the Elemental Designs Nine.2x. There's many higher end amps available as well.
Alpine's PDX 2.150 typically births at 175x2...that's a real nice amp also. On the budget side, RF's P550.2 is available for $200 from crutchfield right now. That'll do around 175x2 or a lil more also.

It's almost always less expensive to buy the braxial setup all at once than to buy an HD-62 set and then get the braxial mount.

Glad to hear about the website...man I couldn't even get an answer about timing for a re-design when I asked a week or two ago. Looks like they're finally getting the point.

Bronze Member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 17
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 11:50 am:

Has anyone here ever heard of a company called Hertz? They're owned by the same people that own Audison and seem to sound pretty good.

Anyone here have any experience with them?

Silver Member

Username: Exige

Post Number: 104
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 03:55 pm:

haven't used them, but heard of them. the cones on their drivers are a bit different. im hoping to get some hands on time with them soon. way too pricey for me though....just like the rest of the imported stuff. high import fees=huge price tags.

Chuck

Bronze Member

Username: Amish

Riverside, CA

Post Number: 31
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 11:14 am:

I'm sure it's been said already (I didn't read through the entire post) but by all means take all your money and invest in one set of great comps for the front. Front stage is all that matters. Running speakers in the rear takes away from the realism. When you watch a concert the musicians are up front right? Thats where the music should come from.

If it were my system I would buy one great set for the front stage, remove the rear stage completely, and still invest in a 4 channel amp. Then as money permits I would buy another set of the same comps and kick panels for the front floor boards. Then you will have one awesome and powerful front stage.

You'll need a good sub to keep up...

msgtpogi

Bronze Member

Username: Msgtpogi

NJ

Post Number: 19
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 09:20 pm:

I have a pair of Memphis Audio MSYNC8 (8" components with the tweeter being adaptable for component or coax mounting). On paper, it looked like a great solution for my situation but it is a mid-fi product at best. It has decent sound but not audiophile stuff. It's cheaper than Focal 6.5" coax but the performance comes up way short in SQ.

Bronze Member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 21
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 11:47 am:

Has anyone heard any of the newer "Built in Germany" MB Quart speakers? I've seen some really good deals on them and for that kind of money, I can add a subwoofer to my system.

The models in question are the PVF 216 and the RVF 216.

http://www.cdtaudio.com/midbass_drivers.htm

Bronze Member

Username: Danh

Post Number: 23
Registered: Jan-08

Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 10:42 am:

Also, after depressing myself trying to navigate the CDT website, does anyone have dimensions for the EF-63 braxial kit (like the mounting depth, etc...)?

M.S.

Gold Member

Username: Nd4spd18

Northwest PA

Post Number: 6237
Registered: Jul-06

Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 05:42 pm: