| Author |
Thread: Sound Cancellation/ Mixing subs of different sizes |
    
Bronze Member Username: Jeromebaker
Post Number: 98
Registered: Dec-05
|
| Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 02:20 pm: |
|
How much stock do you all put into this?
I'm not talking about mixing different makes of the same size sub, I understand why you would get different and inferior sound like that.
My thought is more like 2 10's with 2 12's, something like this.
I just put in some 12's where I had 15's, and am thinking about putting some 10's on top of the 12's. Possiblty running the 10's on a 2 channel amp and leave the 4 12's to the monoblock.
(All in sealed boxes, to save space.)
This forum is the only place I've ever heard anyone say that it is a bad idea.
When pressed, they never say why, just 'sound cancellation'.
If anything, it seems to me that with a setup I described that one would get a much fuller range of frequencies. That high bass would sound a lot better. If the lows drown out the highs in a way I don't like, well, bam, second remote bass knob.
Can anyone tell me why I would be wrong here? |
|
|
|
Silver Member Username: Killswitchjd
Post Number: 349
Registered: Apr-06
|
| Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 03:43 pm: |
|
bass knob adds distortion. |
Gold Member Username: Nd4spd18
Southeast PA
Post Number: 1144
Registered: Jul-06
|
| Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 04:51 pm: |
|
^^^^^ Correct, set your gain properly and you don't want to be adding bass boost
Now about mixing different sub sizes: don't do it. The reason is that the frequency response of a 12" sub will be different than a 15" sub, for example. The boxes would play a huge part in this. In order to do what you are talking about and have it work, you would have to use an extensive system of crossovers, in order to separate the frequency ranges going to each sub. You never want 2 different speakers of different type/brand/size playing the same frequencies.
That's the best way I can explain it. If GlassWolf sees this thread, he may be able to explain it better. |
Platinum Member Username: Glasswolf
Wisteria,
Lane
USA
Post Number: 11742
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 07:18 pm: |
|
There's the short of it.
keep it simple. (KISS approach)
there's no advantage to using multiple subs in this way.
people think smaller subs are "faster" or big subs are "sloppy" but this isn't at all the case. a sub's responsiveness is entirely based on the motor strength *BL curve) and nothing at ALL to do with the diameter of the speaker.
Also, if you mix box types and go sealed for tight low bass, and ported for punch, you'll end up muddying everything up and losing the advantages of both enclosures in the process. the ported box will mask the pros of the sealed, and the sealed will do the same to the ported box.
In the end your best bet is using a single, or possibly two of teh largest sub(s) you can fit in the car with the proper enclosure based on the Qts of the drivers, with adequate power.
In my case I used a single sealed Q15 from Fi, with ~1500WRMS.
works wonders.
tight, deep, fast, and accurate. |
Gold Member Username: Naledge503
Http://com4.runboard.c...
Post Number: 1231
Registered: Jun-06
|
| Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 07:48 pm: |
|
Sorry for thread jacking....
GlassWolf, I have had a pair of Q's waiting to be installed since november. I've been waiting for my H/O alt to be built and enclosure to be built. The question is? How do you like the Q? How do you like it compared to other comparable subs that you have had experience with? |
Silver Member Username: Shade
Moxee,
Wa
U.S.
Post Number: 156
Registered: Nov-06
|
| Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 09:01 pm: |
|
but what about using say 2 10's and a 15 or an 18? in high school me and a friend had a jl 12inhc sub(forget what model) in a prowedge box and a 15 inch kicker sub in a diff box, the thing is we inverted the 15inch sub and wired it accordingly, my theory was that the 12 would hit the higher freq. much more accurate and the 15 would pick up where the 12 left off... |
Bronze Member Username: Jeromebaker
Post Number: 99
Registered: Dec-05
|
| Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:27 pm: |
|
Well, check it:
1)The 2 channel amp would be set to all-pass for the 10's, I'd tune the 2 channel amp seperately.
Likely run the signal first through the 2 channel & 10's, then through the mono and 12's.
2)All the boxes would be sealed.
3)I'm not talking about fiddling with the gain. Gains would be halfway up or less. The remote bass knob would be used exactly for it's purpose.
No clipping allowed.
MS, I think that addresses the issue of frequencies/crossovers.
Glasswollf, I said nothing about mixing ported boxes with sealed boxes. EVerything in this setup will be sealed for space as well as sq purposes.
One amp would be running about 4oo watts(2-ch.), the other less than 600, likely around 3-400.
Like I said, no offense guys, but I've covered the crossovers and not mixing of box types, and otherwise I'm not seeing a reason this wouldn't be sweet. So no disrespect as stated, but those are the only reasons why not? |
Platinum Member Username: Glasswolf
Wisteria,
Lane
USA
Post Number: 11749
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 12:15 pm: |
|
any sub from 10" to 18" should be able to handle the frequencies in the subwoofer range without a problem, if the subs have good BL.
Anything over 80Hz should be handled by midbass drivers or midrange anyway.
There's no advantage to using multiple sized subs. If you want linearity and a good, clean, detailed response, stick with a single sub, or two identical subs. When you start mixing things and adding more speakers than you need, all you're doing is asking to overcomplicate things, and mess up the end product as a result.
If you're dead set on doing it anyway though, have fun with it.
As for my Q, I think it's a terrific sub. |
Gold Member Username: Lbeckner
Tulsa,
Ok
Usa
Post Number: 1474
Registered: Oct-04
|
| Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 01:05 pm: |
|
The ideal system is one speaker. When you start ading more things get more complex. Were not saying its impossible. It would be very hard to even make it sound decent. And there is no benefit. |
Gold Member Username: Carguy
Post Number: 6040
Registered: Nov-04
|
| Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 03:53 pm: |
|
Jerome, maybe you got the idea from home audio speakers. There, you see 8" sub mixed with 12" on the same box.
Those were carefully designed by the manufacturer. You won't be able to duplicate that in your car.
Everyone already advised you on what'll happen, but like GW said, if you're dead set on doing it, go ahead. I'm sure you'll learn some valuable lesson. I've been on that road before (when I was a teen). In the end, all the time and money you spent, won't be as good as you originally planned/visioned. |
Platinum Member Username: Glasswolf
Wisteria,
Lane
USA
Post Number: 11757
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 06:20 pm: |
|
eh yeah. you can try to pass teh knowledge down, but they have to be willing to listen. most times, they just have to learn for themselves.
it's almost like raising kids.
20 years in this business, and sometimes ya wonder what good it's done.. lol |
Silver Member Username: Killswitchjd
Post Number: 353
Registered: Apr-06
|
| Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 07:16 pm: |
|
I would just concider air flow, moreso movement by the seperate woofers in the trunk... yuk |
Bronze Member Username: Jeromebaker
Post Number: 100
Registered: Dec-05
|
| Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 03:09 pm: |
|
Allright, beautiful, that's what I was asking.
Thank you guys.
I did get the idea from home audio, as well as seeing a few systems with varying sub sizes.
I have seen it done before, perhaps successfully, perhaps as a novelty, I don't know, albeit generally on multigrand systems.
The cheapest one guy had an oldschool diesel mercedes with 15's in the trunk and 10's in the cab of the car. I think the guy was getting better sound than with just the 15's because the trunk kills sound quality like a covered bandpass box.
The most expensive, a honda accord in frisco, had 30-something 8's installed in various parts of the car, in the doors and dash what not, with one 15 in the trunk. Although the guy did say that the car hit plenty hard without the 15. Loudest car I've ever heard, and it sounded excellent. I swear it can be done.
But what I'm getting is that for my idea, an extended truck cab, it would would just be a huge pain in the as s that I have little chance of doing successfully. Awesome, saves me hours of work and building.
Now I have to ask, my last 2 setups have been 4 15's and 4 12's respectively, you think that going over 2 subs is inadvisable as well?
SUre when you crank it the bass drowns out everything but you guys don't think that even at low levels the SQ would be good? |
Platinum Member Username: Glasswolf
Wisteria,
Lane
USA
Post Number: 11759
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 11:08 pm: |
|
generally home systems use pretty complex passive filter networks for multiple drivers sharing a single cabinet.
in car systems, the same applies, though more often with active filter networks, separate amp channels and equalization so you can have subs and midbass drivers with a smooth transition.
in the end, the simplest systems are the best more often than not.
My Martin Logans are a good example.
one ESL panel, and one woofer per speaker. |
|
