The Showdown: Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD
| Posted by Admin on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 06:39 am: |
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Alan Parsons wishes it wasn't so. But like it or not, the senior vice president of Pioneer's industrial solutions business group has become a wary foot soldier in the battle over the future of the DVD format. As music blares from a band playing at a nearby exhibit at the 2005 International CES, Parsons sits at a small table in a meeting room contemplating how the next couple of years might play out. He remains relatively reserved, trying not to let his passion for the next-generation Blu-Ray Disc format devolve into vitriol against rival format HD-DVD. "I don't like the rock throwing," he insists. "I just want to excite consumers."
That may be true, but Parsons still finds it hard to resist getting in a few digs on the HD-DVD rival, which at about 15 gigabytes per layer has roughly 40 percent less storage capacity than the Blu-Ray format. "They might end up with something ho-hum," he says. "They're saying that [their capacity] is good, but people used to think that five gigs was good enough." Parsons shrugs his shoulders a bit, wearing a look of calm but certain exasperation. "Why would we limit ourselves to a lower capacity?" he asks.
To be sure, Parsons is among several CE manufacturers backing the Blu-Ray format, which they claim is superior to HD-DVD. But the HD-DVD format has its own backers, who while fewer in numbers, are equally adamant that their format will win out because of its lower transition and manufacturing costs—as well as other technical benefits and its expected quicker time to market. Indeed, either format is a vast improvement over the current DVD design, which maxes out at about 4.7 gigabytes. Even at standard-definition quality, that's barely enough space for a two-hour movie and a few hours of special features. And with that much space, forget about high-definition TV.
VHS vs. Beta all over Again?
Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs enable HDTV reproduction because of their massive storage capacities. Using dual-layer techniques, HD-DVD can store as much as 30 gigabytes of data while a Blu-Ray disc can pack in a whopping 50 gigabytes. In the lab, techies already are working on several-layered discs that could allow more than 100 gigabytes of storage on one disc. That's enough for several HDTV movies, special features and compelling interactive content. Or a content provider could put more than 100 hours of standard-definition quality programming on one DVD. All 180 episodes of Seinfeld on one disc, anyone?
The benefits for backward compatibility are clear: new players will be able to handle both old and new DVD formats in the same machine (outfitted with both red- and blue-laser diodes)—a major consumer benefit that manufacturers hope will drive unit sales.
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both use blue lasers, which operate at lower wavelengths (405 nanometers) than current red lasers (650 nanometers). That microscopic difference goes a long way. Longer wavelengths suffer more diffraction, which limits their ability to focus tightly on a surface. But a blue laser's shorter wavelength allows it to read and write data over a much tighter surface area, which in turn allows storage of far more data on a disc that's roughly the same diameter of current DVDs. The benefits for backward compatibility are clear: New players will be able to handle both old and new DVD formats in the same machine (outfitted with both red- and blue-laser diodes)—a major consumer benefit that manufacturers hope will drive unit sales.
But while consumers won't have to worry about obsolescence when it comes to their old DVD collections, the format war brewing between new Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs does present an age-old problem that evokes the VHS vs. Beta fiasco of the 1980s. The HD-DVD format—like the VHS format that won out over Beta—could become far more widely available to consumers sooner and at a lower price (at least initially) than Blu-Ray discs. That's because the HD-DVD format utilizes manufacturing techniques very similar to those used for the current generation of DVDs. Translation: Third-party duplication houses won't have to retool their factories significantly to make HD-DVDs a reality. That means that HD-DVD discs likely will be the first to market by at least several months, probably by the end of 2005.
On the other hand, Blu-Ray discs require an entirely new manufacturing process with transition costs borne largely by duplicators (unless Blu-Ray backers devise a subsidy system. That, along with other issues, is expected to delay the introduction of Blu-Ray discs until sometime in 2006, which could hand a major advantage to the HD-DVD format. (add hard return here) "In this kind of battle, the guy who is out there first and cheaper is going to be the winner," says Fariborz Ghadar, director for the Center for Global Business Studies at Penn State University. "The more expensive and later one is going to be the loser." (The Blu-Ray camp contends that it will bring manufacturing costs nearly in line with HD-DVD during the next year. Parsons says that HD-DVD's cost advantage will amount to only "pennies" per disc over the Blu-Ray format). (add hard return here as well) "Unlike Blu-Ray discs, HD-DVD discs can be manufactured with similar equipment in the same plants that make current DVDs," said Jodi Sally, vice president of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products digital audio video products.
Duking It Out
Still, the nature of the next-generation rollout itself may force consumers to take sides early. Because of the vastly different physical attributes of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs, it's cost-prohibitive for manufacturers to produce next-generation players that can handle both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats in one machine. "You would need two pickup heads, and it would be very expensive," explains Stephen Balogh, business development manager at Intel's corporate technology group. So manufacturers have lined up on opposite sides of the fence, ready to produce players that only work with one or the other format. That could spell consumer confusion as buyers fear picking the wrong one and ending up with an obsolete player and content library.
Each side wants to convince consumers that they should avoid the other side's format. HD-DVD backers are planning a "you want it, and we're here now" marketing strategy, whereas the Blu-Ray camp largely plans to adopt a "we won't be first, but we'll be better" campaign designed to warn consumers away from HD-DVD.
So what's the breakdown of forces on each side? On the Blu-Ray side is a large group of CE manufacturers, including Dell, Hewlett Packard, Hitachi, LG Electronics, Mitsubishi Electric, Panasonic (Matsushita Electric), Pioneer, Royal Philips Electronics, Samsung Electronics, Sharp, Sony, TDK and Thomson. Some content providers also are onboard. In addition to obvious backing from Sony-affiliated movie studios Sony Pictures Entertainment and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, the Walt Disney Company and its home-video division Buena Vista Entertainment offered its non-exclusive endorsement of Blu-Ray in December. In addition, video gaming powerhouse Electronic Arts, along with Vivendi Universal Games, both came out for Blu-Ray at the 2005 International CES in January.
Most gaming companies have yet to pick sides, although Blu-Ray's larger storage capacity may win some of them over. "If you show Blu-Ray to a game manufacturer and say you can have an extra 20 gigabytes of storage, it's a drop-dead deal," says Blu-Ray backer Richard Doherty, managing director for Blu-Ray and professional AV at Panasonic Hollywood Labs. Of course, most PC-based games haven't even moved up to the current generation of DVDs from CDs, so it's unclear whether most gaming companies will utilize high-definition DVD formats for some time.
The main backer of the HD-DVD format is Toshiba, which by itself has more market dominance than several CE backers on the Blu-Ray side combined, along with smaller players NEC and Sanyo. Toshiba plans to launch its first HD-DVD players in late 2005. In December, even Thomson—which is actually a Blu-Ray disc backer—announced that it also would sell HD-DVD players by late 2005. And an impressive list of entertainment content companies has thrown their weight behind HD-DVD, including Paramount, Universal Studios and Warner Bros. (along with Time Warner-owned New Line Cinema). All of these studios have already announced a significant amount of titles on HD-DVD to be available at the time HD-DVD players are introduced.
Toshiba is dedicated to the HD-DVD format and executives staunchly believe they will win the marketing battle for consumers even before Blu-Ray gets its format off the ground in 2006. "The key part of this is going to be driven by content," says Maciek Brzeski, vice president of marketing in Toshiba's storage device division.
He says consumers won't care whether the disc has 30 gigabytes or 50 gigabytes of capacity—only that the content they want is ready and available at a good price. Brzeski questions the Blu-Ray camp's ability to jazz consumers about a format that he says offers little more than a few extra gigabytes of storage. "They're going to be marketing technology, and we're going to be marketing products," he says. "It's hard to sell technology to consumers."
"Our rich heritage in the development of DVD technology means that we are well equipped for the market transition from DVD to HD-DVD," added Sally, who also serves as Vice-President for the Digital Entertainment Group. "With proven backwards compatibility and real software titles available at launch, we are certain that we can deliver the very best solution in HD-DVD technology for both consumers as well as the content providers."
In December, Toshiba and other HD-DVD backers formed the HD-DVD Promotion Group to promote the format, and to ensure early product launches and subsequent market penetration.
Other pros and cons seem to bleed together as both formats offer similar features. For example, while HD-DVD touts the ability to create discs with red-laser standard DVD format on one side and blue-laser HD-DVD standard on the other, a Blu-Ray Disc Association spokeswoman points out that JVC announced in December a disc that allows both standard DVD and Blu-Ray content on a single side of the disc. The Blu-Ray camp has argued that single-sided discs are more consumer friendly.
The Pricing Strategy
In the vital area of picture quality, both formats also have a difficult time differentiating between one another. "Either format can produce a very good image," says Richard Dean, director of technical business development at THX Inc. "To me, it boils down to the price of the equipment and the availability of content."
Dean, who has helped master the DVD releases of the Star Wars trilogy and other blockbuster movies, says that consumers won't notice any real quality difference between the formats. But he says HD-DVD may end up with an advantage if it can under price Blu-Ray discs and players. "I think that's going to play a very large role." As for Blu-Ray's greater storage capacity, "more space is always an advantage," Dean says, "but the question is how much more space is really needed." Notes Parsons: "If you start doing HD bonus features, it will suck up capacity very quickly."
Intel executives, who first got involved in the working groups for next-generation DVD formats to help avoid a format war, already are bracing for an era of consumer confusion as a Blu-Ray-vs.-HD-DVD scenario takes shape. "We didn't want two formats coming out," says Balogh. "Now we have an even standoff, so neither side wants to compromise whatsoever." Making matters worse, he says, the entertainment studios also are split between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, although more big studios have backed HD-DVD at this point.
"The studios will be the kingmakers here," he says. Ultimately, consumers may struggle to figure out what kind of players and media to purchase during the next couple of years. "The most important benefit to the consumer is that the HD-DVD players that we'll be introducing to the market this year will be fully backward compatible with the current DVDs that are already in consumers' homes. With the Blu-Ray formats' backward compatibility isn't so simple," adds Sally.
Still, many are wary. "It would be best if we went to market without two formats," says Panasonic's Doherty. "We're very disappointed that we're in a format war." As the battle heats up in 2005 and well into 2006, consumers will decide which format will succeed.
This material has been adapted from VISION -- a bi-monthly magazine of the Consumer Electronics Asssociation
| Author | Comments | ||
     New member Username: Rogerw99Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-04 |
As a typical consumer with a slightly better than average understanding of emerging technologies, I cringe at the thought of another VHS/BataMax format war. I remember it all too well. In the end, the consumer lost out on that one and never really knew it. In my opinion, I'd rather wait the extra year for the higher capacity format. Because that marketing line about the consumers not being able to tell the difference in quality is a load of bull! That statement alone “that consumers won't notice any real quality difference between the formats” already tells me that their intent is to compromise quality for content amount. Have these marketing types forgotten that consumers actually like the zoom function sometimes? And this one “consumers won't care whether the disc has 30 gigabytes or 50 gigabytes of capacity—only that the content they want is ready and available at a good price”. Higher capacity means higher resolution as a standard! Consumers are no longer the unsophisticated sheep that the media companies would have us be. What may kill the better/later Blu-Ray format is consumer impatience for immediate satisfaction. And HD-DVD with it's 40% LESS capacity means they will ultimately be limited in their content, quality or both sooner than Blu-Ray. It also means HD-DVD obsolescence 40% sooner. Who would want that? I’m sure that playback backwards compatibility to current DVD standards wont be a problem for Blu-Ray. Especially if they can put both on the same side of the new DVD disc. That’s another winner in my estimation. There’s less chance of ruining a disc when you don’t have to be worried about BOTH sides of a disc being scratched. But then, there is that new armor coating that was developed by TDK, I believe, that could easily solve that problem. In any case, consumers need to STOP listening to all the MARKETING HYPE, take a deep breath, clear their heads and read & understand the facts before committing another format faux pas. |
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Deathman20 Unregistered guest |
Agree with above, personally I'd rather wait til Blu-Ray comes out then getting a HD-DVD setup with less space. I'm a computer man and space is everything. The more space you can have more quality and more extras without the compermise of either one of those. With Blu-Ray its a nice to have an extra 10-20gig space on the disk, thats another 1-2DVD's by today's standards of information on a disk. People should think prior to supporting the wrong format, and more companies will support the HD-DVD due to cheaper cost, but not only that they can make more money off it too, when more people want to buy the next gen player and they want a movie that was on HD-DVD then they will buy another of the same movie that they already have. I'm waiting til 06 or 07' before I even get an HDTV so I'm at no loss for waiting til the smoke settles in this war, but I hope Blu-Ray to be the winner. |
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Todd A Unregistered guest |
The thing is an HDTV format movie can fit no problems on either disk, so the size is not really the issue. I personally would have liked MS WM9 to be usable in more DVD players (Kiss is the only one I know of) because it can do pretty good HDTV and still fit on a standard DVD. I have 3 IMAX special additions that come on DVD and WM9-HD (two disk set) and the WM9-HD is VERY impressive. I can only play it on a computer though because of the lack of players. Now I am unsure of the compression formats that will be used for each, but WM9 was one of them and it would be nice if they used this and the few WM9-HD movies that people have (like me) could play. The only problem is if the do not use an MPEG2 HD DVD format they need to pay royalties to be backwards compatable with current DVDs. Backwards compatability is a VERY BIG issue. If either one of these formats does not support standard DVDs it will not survive. If neither does, the addoption of any HD DVD/Blue Ray will be massively slowed, which will slow the addoption of HDTVs all together. This would be bad. |
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cowardly dragon Unregistered guest |
The PC aspect here makes it this race different. Beta/VHS didn't have data storage as a dual requirement.<br> <br> Consumers may not care about 30GB vs. 50GB, but the PC people sure as hell will. And since the growth of PCs that output video to TVs is growing so quickly, the markets are converging.<br> <br> I think the superior technology will win this time. Blu-Ray just has more buzz I think. |
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bcrt Unregistered guest |
yeah.. i don't understand quite fully what the HD-DVD guys are trying to prove.. their format is only 3 times larger than a DVD.. and I guess with codecs that have higher compression (WMV9?) you can fit maybe 4-6 hours worth of 1080p quality on an HD-DVD, but i've heard their standard format will fit around 2 hours at 1080p which sucks.. i don't want to upgrade to a cinema quality picture only having to switch discs and what not while watching movies like Lord of the Rings: Return of the King or the Godfather II... Blue Ray's 50 GB capacity + ability to have a DVD9 layer as well so that the disc can play both on DVD players and Blue Ray players is really what we need.. because then if i don't have a bigscreen TV yet/haven't invested in a Blue Ray player, I can just buy the Blue Ray version and watch it on a standard DVD player, and then when I do make the jump I don't have to buy a new copy another thing i must say, i think the hi-def format battle has come too soon, theres still too many people with non-HDTV's |
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deezus Unregistered guest |
I think they should join forces and share the huge pie known as dvd sales...come on you know they will have so many different versions of a movie it will be like printing money....how about this blu-dvd or maybe blu-hddvd....whatever just become as one....... |
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OldTechGuy Unregistered guest |
I'd love to have an HD option on some movies. But I don't want to have to replace all my media like I did when going from magnetic to optical. There are some movies I don't think warrant it. I'm leery of Blu-Ray. I'm not seeing the information in the latest write ups but I distinctly remember reading how they were not really about HD content and more concerned with copy protection. Cowardly Dragon mentioned WM9. I'm generally the last guy to jump on any MS wagon but do the Blu-Ray people have a better option? I certainly don't trust anything Sony more than anything MS. If WM9 has an equal or better picture with better compression then losing some space may be worth it. Especially if I get to back up my movies. And that's not code for steal: I purchase my movies and don't appreciate being treated like a criminal by the manufacturers by putting copy protection on the product designed to thwart only home users rather than real pirates. If Blu-Ray is about content and quality then sign me up. But be sure it's not really about control before you eschew HD-DVD. |
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kodiak81 Unregistered guest |
No matter how much is said about the data capacity the winning format will be the one p0rn industry goes with. The BluRay has far too many big companies backing it, that might lead to the format being under corporate control too much, plus early BluRay drives used a cartridge system just like the DVDRam. |
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Anonymous |
There's one thing this guy forgot to mention about the VHS vs BETA war that raged in the late 70's, early 80's. SEX, yes, it was the sex industry that tipped the balance in favor of the VHS format back then, because the company that was backing BETA back then didn't want any adult content to be produced and sold on his format. Read the history books people, and yes, that includes you too Sony, don't repeat the mistakes of the past or it could cost you dearly because in the end it wasn't about technological superiority, but the nature of the twisted human psyché. Such an interesting part of our techie past :P. |
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Anonymous121212 Unregistered guest |
Things might have changed since I read about this stuff, so I might be talking rubbish, but... I'd also like to hear more about codecs. It wasn't covered in this article (which only focussed on storage capacity), but the last I heard both formats had bad deficiencies. HD-DVD's was its comparatively poor capacity, but it was going to use a better codec (MPEG4?) in order to improve the image quality and storage capacity over current DVDs. Blu-Ray has the better capacity (in raw GB terms), but was stupidly going to stick with the old (MPEG2?) codecs, thus crippling its own potentiial. If Blu-Ray was using a more advanced codec, it would have everything, but they passed up the opportunity to provide a genuinely superior alternative. HD-DVD might not be as technologically inferior as the Blu-Ray people would have us think. I also think that if either side expects any new format to be adopted with the same fervour as DVDs, they're in for a horrid surprise. |
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Unregistered guest |
Blu-Ray just wins this battle hands down. Not because it's better or will have more movies. It will win because 40-50 million US (and likely a majority of Japanese and European) homes will have a Blu-Ray player by 2008 - It's called the Playstation 3. Why buy a HD-DVD player if you already own a Blu-Ray PS3? As to conversion difficulties, manufacturers will convert their plants not to make movies but to make PS3 game discs. Since MS/XBOX2 will use a standard DVD drive, HD-DVD will be locked out of the next-gen game system market. All big burning houses will support Blu-Ray so they can get a piece of the PS3 market. The PS3 is the "viral phage" that Sony needs to win the format war. Lots of people will buy a cheap DVD player, but the new single purpose HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players will start out very expensive (as all new format players do). The PS3 will sell as a videogame console with Blu-Ray movies as a bonus. Consumers will buy movies for the player they already have, not buy a second (and initially very expensive) one. Sony wins this fight easily. |
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Unregistered guest |
Great article - thanks. It's worth thinking about the fact that before investing in this new technology the average consumer, while more savvy than in the past will definitely consider predominantly: 1. Whether they can play their "old" DVDs on a new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player 2. Whether they will notice a significant improvement in image quality or content over their existing (relatively cheap) DVDs. I believe that: 1. If HD-DVD players can provide backward compatibility at a cheaper cost, people will buy such players regardless of capacity. And with just cause - who wants to renew their entire DVD collection as well as getting an expensive new player? This will be a major factor in who the ultimate winner will be. 2. Since most people don't have a 1080p-capable (and in most cases not even a decent 1080i-capable) HDTV, and probably wont for another few years at least, then the answer to the second question is that consumers will not notice a significant quality improvement, so whichever costs less will win out. Once again this is HD-DVD. Important to note that from a PC gamer perspective (being the owner of TweakGuides.com I understand this quite well  ) - 30GB is enough for most PC games well into the near future. Given even the largest games so far are 5GB, and given improvements in compression techniques, it's hard to believe PC games will blow out to 50GB in the next few years. If they do, 2 HD-DVDs will be as fine as 1 Blu-Ray disk anyway - hardly a cost blowout. So while I'm actually all for Blu-Ray the format sounds too much like a premium product at a premium price, and the price doesn't seem like it will fall until 2008 at the earliest. As someone who owns 130 DVDs and a HDTV, and some tech knowledge, I favor Blu-Ray, but realize that it cannot compete with HD-DVD on the consumer market. And let's be honest, most older movies simply will not look that much better at 1080p than they do at 576i - doubling the resolution of a grainy image simply increases the visible graininess. I'd love to have a format which is more future-proof, but once again even 50GB is hardly future proof either. Let's not pretend that by going with Blu-Ray, we can build up Blu-Ray movie collections which will last more than 5 years before the next tech wave comes through. HD-DVD promises cheaper sooner and that may be just enough of a consumer edge to relegate Blu-Ray to be the MiniDisc as opposed to the Compact Disc (to use an audio analogy). |
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HD Guru Unregistered guest |
PS2 had little affect on the adoption of the DVD format according to known statistics. PS3 won't be any different. |
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Freddo-jenix Unregistered guest |
I say Go Blu-Ray!! ... ... (cos it's WAY too much of a mouthful to say: Go Aitch-Dee-Dee-Vee-Dee)! ... also I'd rather back my 200GB hard disk to-... well, most of the disc is kept empty for video editing temp files, but I'd like to make a disc image with all my fave programs installed and 50GB would be wayyy better for that... |
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Bladen Unregistered guest |
Blu-Ray supports MPEG 2, MPEG 4 and Microsofts VC-1 (formely known as VC-9). I believe VC-1 (WM9) is better than MPEG 4, thats what Microsoft say anyway... |
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Anonymous |
PS3 discs will be pressed by Sony's DADC arm, so it's not like PS3 alone would drive broad replication capacity in support of BD. Given the replication issues still clouding BD-ROM's future (still no reference design, no BD-ROM lines exist outside of the lab, no line equipment available for sale, even after 6 months of availability no replicator has purchased a Sony PTR-3000 BD mastering system, etc.), Sony's recent public peace offering might be their way of saying uncle on the ROM side of the equation, realizing that there's still major coin to be made on the recording side of the equation where BD shines. |
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Deadmeat Unregistered guest |
This article is already outdated. Sony's new President already announced his willingness to compromise around HD-DVD if the patent loyalty payment dispute is settled. Even Sony's president doesn't think BD-ROM stands a chance against HD-DVD with content providers overwhelmingly preferring HD-DVD over BD-ROM, the whole battle is futile. |
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Unregistered guest |
HD-DVD CODECs supported are Microsoft's VC-1 (windows media), MPEG2 and MPEG4. Blu-Ray is supporting the same Microsoft VC-1 and MPEG2. This is obviously a win for Microsoft either way. I have the T2 Extreme Edition which has the full length movie in 1080i in Windows Media format and it looks amazing! It takes a 3 GHz+ PC with a 128 MB DirectX 9 card to play so it takes major house power. Seeing they can already put full length movies in HD on a normal DVD I wonder if this battle truely needs to be faught between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. PaulW |
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Abram Unregistered guest |
I'd much rather wait for Blu-Ray. I work in high def video creation, and the extra space never goes to waste. |
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TWill_1 Unregistered guest |
I am 100% for blue ray as long as the blue ray players will also play my 200+ DVD's. If this is not possible i would have to back HD-DVD. Some guy above stated that blue ray needed cartages to play: well he is misinformed!!! Any how, the only way I would ever think of buying a HD-DVD player is if the blue ray would not play my HUGE investment in DVD movies. I am 100% for blue ray as long as the blue ray players will also play my 200+ DVD's. If this is not possible I would have to back HD-DVD. Some guy above stated that blue ray needed cartages to play: well he is misinformed!!! Any how, the only way I would ever think of buying a HD-DVD player is if the blue ray would not play my HUGE investment in DVD movies. |
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Anonymous |
I'm boycotting Toshiba. In this scenario, BIGGER is better. 30 GB is not enough. Remember this is going to be a storage medium too folks. In the end it will most likely be HD-DVD. Let's face it, VHS was inferior to beta in every way as well and who won out in the end? VHS and everyone but the consumer. My greatest hope is that HD-DVD's market share (which they will attain because most consumers are idiots) will force Blu-Ray to become equally as affordable as well as fully backward compatable. As to re-buying your whole DVD library, don't even stress it. Most all movies even today are shot on film, don't ask me why. (*cough* film snobs *cough*) Film up-converted to HD still looks like film and 24fps still looks old-fashioned even when converted to 30. Personally I think we as consumers need to refuse to purchase a single high definition disc until we are offered the best of both worlds. They can't force feed us and believe me, they want us to eat it up. There is so little HD content out there right now. The only thing that makes sense is to wait for the real deal. |
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mypcrocks Unregistered guest |
first, standard dvd's are not going too disappear overnight they will get cheaper & cheaper when HD-DVD comes and untill the cost of HD players and disc's falls near. The masses will vote with there wallets first. second, unless there is a all-in-one solution to HD the first to fill shops & videoshelf's is going to have a huge headstart (HD-DVD 6mths+)? it could be all over before it starts! third, most people don't understand HDTV (1080i 576P ect) don't think it will be any different here. they will buy wot the salesman tells them will make that $5000+ overpriced plasma/LCD he sold them last year look EVEN BETTER (my $175 HDTV card on 19" crt monitor with 5.1 THX speakers & sound card looks better) lastly, true HD gaming is a long way off yet (pc) how long will we wait for half-life3,Doom4???? So who will win the HD war? if its cheap looks good and DAD can run up a copy. who cares!! NOT YOUR AVERAGE JOE!!! (and thats where most of the money is)FOLKS. |
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E.T Unregistered guest |
"The BluRay has far too many big companies backing it, that might lead to the format being under corporate control too much..." Completely wrong, if "Hollywood" is strongly behind HD-DVD you can bet they're planning some heavy restrictions to limit its use. Also considering space... HDTV-video just happens to require much over FOUR times as much space as normal TV-res video. So I can't see any reason for selecting some smaller capacity media while its opponent offers 60% more space... or maybe except fact they want media which will become obsolete faster. And they better upgrade framerate, current framerate of DVD video s**ks. (also increases space requirement) "true HD gaming is a long way off yet (pc)" 1600x1200 isn't enough? |
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gabbagabbahey Unregistered guest |
This reminds me of the silly DVD-Audio vs SACD war: 80% of consumers own simple electronics and are uninterested in high resolution, be it audio or video. DVD and CD triumphed because of convenience, not quality. The real battle (me against my friends) is Cd against mp3, DVD against DiVX -or crappy avi downloads-. |
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Imtiaz Haider Unregistered guest |
I live in Asia. Over here, VHS still dominates a large share of the market pie. But DVD is only making an appearance and it is doing it with a bang. People owning a DVD player understand why this is important. Extra special content, extra audio, choice of subtitles are some of the things that can make a DVD more of a must have attraction over VHS. The hard fact is, people still buy/rent VHS's because it is cheap to buy/record/rent one. Oh, one hard fact about DVD's in Pakistan. It was the Playstation2 and Xbox consoles that drived the DVD sales into almost 25% of the market and increasing. If Playstation 3 will be supporting Bluray drive as default. I'll leave the readers to speculate what will happen to the format war in my country. HD-DVD? No one ever heard of that over here pals. Playstation 2 was sold in large quantities when it cameout. I'm expecting the same to be true with Playstation3, which will debut in May'05 at Electronic Entertainment Expo and to be officialy mass released in Japan/USA in the first quarter of 2006. Matter of fact I got 300GB of anime on my PC. My HDD's are filled to the brim. To relieve myself of all this data(or back it up) I need something that can store it all in 2 or 3 discs. Not in 30+ DL-DVDR's or 18 HD-DVD's. I want my 300GB to be transferred to 6 blurays in under 2 hours. How's that for a thought from Pakistan? |
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Anonymous |
i would like to say sth as a average consumer, a lot of ppl post in this thread know the difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray (i know it now), but as an average consumer, i would choose whatever come out first preferably with lower price! if i see the amazing HD image of my favourite movie, i would not hesistate to buy it immediately without considering whether the dics is 30GB or 50GB, even though someone tell me that by next year u can have the same HD movie together with some HD feature in it. since i buy the first one, i would buy another HD-DVD next to enjoy the use of the HD-DVD player. this is the so-called first mover advantage. i'm also a gamer, from gamer view point, first of all, most PC games are still using CD rather than DVD, and most games are 3D, the content on the screen is unlimited just depending on the processing power of the graphic card, one can display the content using 2560x1440 if and only if the graphic card has enough processing power, the 3D info are all store in the HD of the PC, the disc is only use for verifying the genuinity of the software, a CD will do the job. Regarding PS3, it will not be available earlier than the Blu-Ray. And moreover, the primary motive of buying the PS is to play games, for playing game, i don't care what media it uses. If someone primary motive of buying a PS3 for movie, it will look whether the media is popular, so if HD-DVD is more popular, those ppl won't buy a PS3 for movie. i'm not opposing Blu-Ray, but ppl just hate waiting, of course, if when the HD-DVD comes out, the Blu-Ray annouces that it will be available by next month, ppl won't mine waiting for a better options, but that isn't the fact. |
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New member Username: CthulhuLewisville Dallas, Texas Post Number: 9 Registered: Jun-04 |
"i'm not opposing Blu-Ray, but ppl just hate waiting, of course, if when the HD-DVD comes out, the Blu-Ray annouces that it will be available by next month, ppl won't mine waiting for a better options, but that isn't the fact." i don't mind waiting... i'm not buying anything until there's just one format available. end of story. i, like 90% of the people out there, don't even have a hd television yet...and probably won't in 2006 either. i'll let all the people with more money than sense duke it out and i'll wait till it's over. i just hope that the better format wins, unlike beta and vhs. =) |
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New member Username: Audio_highMountain View, CA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-05 |
I am the owner of a high-end audio/home theater store (www.audiohigh.com), and it is depressing to see this type of format war yet again. There are some good comments here. I agree that most people have never heard of SACD and DVD-A (including Tower Records employees....), but I think the case is a little different for video. A lot more people are buying HDTVs than high-resolution music transports, and people will know about Blu-Ray and HD-DVD soon enough. I personally am rooting for Blu-Ray, and I am sure manufacturers will make players that are backward-compatible with 480i DVDs. But having seen VHS win over Beta, Microsoft win over Apple, and Republicans win over Democrats, I know that evil exists in the world, and consumers usually lose to corporate greed. Sigh. Michael Audio High |
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Pbmax542 Unregistered guest |
"Republicans win over Democrats" This thread is cracking me up. I too believe that Blu-ray is the better tech, but I bet I will own both players by the end of 2006. I plan to pick up my HD-DVD player the day that they come out. I just wish they would hurry up and release them already. I want my movies to look as good as CSI on CBS, and the sooner the better. This format war could last a long time, and I don't want to wait for a winner. I NEED HD MOVIES NOW!!!! BTW, the winner of the war will be determined by which technology shows up at Blockbuster first. Regards, Louie |
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Anonymous |
in business sense, HD-DVD has both the first mover advantage and the price edge, Blu-Ray has the tech edge, but the tech edge is not great enough to overcome the time and price advantage of the competitor. imagine HD-DVD comes out 6 month earlier, in six months, ppl want to enjoy the HD, many HD contents will come out, by the time Blu-Ray comes out, a 30% more contents in HD-DVD format is already enough to leave the Blu-Ray in dust,moreover, at that time, HD-DVD will surely compete on price with Blu-Ray since there will be room for price cut 6 months after a product release, so it is hard for blu-ray to fight back. |
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DMF12345 Unregistered guest |
Critical question: WILL EITHER BE RECORDABLE? |
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Potatis Unregistered guest |
Why doesn't the industry just go for HVD (holographic) 1000GB discs with Super Hi-vision (4000 scanlines) instead? Not fair to milk out some cash and/or let people hang around in forums discussing formats that might never take off. I actually don't believe any will succeed unless the discs are 100% backward compatible (have a DVD layer) and are playable in reglar DVD players. You can't introduce a "new" format that has the exact physical appearance as CD and DVD and expect people to adopt it like crazy. Look at DVD-A/SACD, which might actually have succeed if all discs had had to have a CD layer. (But then again, HDCD didn't) |
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Potatis Unregistered guest |
Why doesn't the industry just go for HVD (holographic) 1000GB discs with Super Hi-vision (4000 scanlines) instead? Not fair to milk out some cash and/or let people hang around in forums discussing formats that might never take off. I actually don't believe any will succeed unless the discs are 100% backward compatible (have a DVD layer) and are playable in reglar DVD players. You can't introduce a "new" format that has the exact physical appearance as CD and DVD and expect people to adopt it like crazy. Look at DVD-A/SACD, which might actually have succeed if all discs had had to have a CD layer. (But then again, HDCD didn't) Oh, and I do believe PS3 could get Blu-ray a much better start than PS2 did for DVDs, as PS2 was introduced in 2000 when DVDs already was 4 years old and many people already bought DVD players. |
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Anonymous |
I actually hope that neither HD-DVD nor BLU RAY will catch on... MS supports both, and both include WMV9 as a mandatory codec. This immediately means that any open-source player will NOT play the discs...Not to mention any other protection that will stir things up like DeCSS did... The discs...bluray all the way. Maybe us free people should make a FreeBlue without any restrictions or patents whatsoever....But, like most free stuff, it would be squashed like a bug by MS and Hollywood.....Argh. |
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Anonymous |
I'm missing something here. Drives will have to have both blue and red lasers, HD decoders will have to deal with both WM 9 and H.264/MPEG4, discs will still have both 50 and 60 frame options. Why can't an HD DVD player play both types of HD disc in which case I'll buy it with my HD screen and not care who wins the HD DVD format war. |
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Potatis Unregistered guest |
latest buzz is that hd-dvd would be used for north america and blu-ray for the rest of the world ..like two physically incompatible regions? |
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Prodigal $on Unregistered guest |
Both formats will be using the H.264 codec also know as MPEG4 part 10 or AVC. This is an open source codec and is the most advanced codec in the world. Do a search and see for yourself. Its what Quicktime 7 is based on. M$ can keep their proprietory technology as we all know open source is the way forward. Price will be the determining factor in the outcome of this battle. Personally im gonna wait! Its what smart people do ;) |
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NoJoo Unregistered guest |
OK, some people just don't get it. 1. HD gaming? Something like that would need 2D-games. On the PC side, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are pointless in gaming. Since all games are installed on the harddrive, they can be compressed really tight. But when using for back-up or mass-storage, size matters. HD-DVD-Rs would need to be over 20% cheaper than Blu-Ray-Rs to win. 2. Sure people will buy PS3 for gaming. But they will notice that it supports Blu-Ray, and will buy Blu-Ray movies. Unless there's notable price difference with HD-DVDs. 3. It doesn't matter how many in individuals are smart, or how smart, people are still stupid. They'll go right for the convenient one. Meaning the lower priced and maybe first. 4. In the end few people have need for HD-content right now, or a year from now. They're rushing it needlessly. Almost as if HD-DVD people fear that Blu-Ray will "get there first" or something. Anyway, most people won't care of either one for a long time, so those who have more money for tech-stuff will start the voting. Hard to say which side those will choose. 5. I really consider that side which has the "Hollywood" on their side as the "evil" one. I don't trust Sony much, but a lot less the movie industry. And from what I've heard, the HD-DVDs already have a copyright-thing. 6. Sony going for both doesn't mean that the Blu-Ray sucks, they likely just would like to cover their bases. 7. 20 gigs is still 20 gigs. Nobody seems to remember how with DVDs was thought that "it'll take decades to fill these things" or something along those lines. The more space we get, the more we need. 8. Blu-Ray disks don't have higher production costs themselves, it's only the beginning that costs most. And there's no way that X-Box 2 (or Next) will use normal DVDs. Doesn't make sense. From what I've learned, beta was first and had better quality, but TVs at that time were so bad, few saw the difference. Also Beta had smaller capacity. Short: PS3 will likely have effect on winner. Most people don't need HDTV-stuff. Most people will go for the cheaper. PC-users will likely go for the larger capacity. PC-games will likely go for normal DVDs for years to come. Personally I'm for Blu-Ray, but believe that this will indeed be a difficult war. Placing bets on either side will be extremely risky. If one should buy either a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD device, it should be made for support of that format. Otherwise, it is just foolish. |
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Unregistered guest |
Thats right - Hd Dvd will will be cheaper and thats what counts for most people. PC users, most likely, will not like to wait half a year for a better format. |
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New member Username: Omega3002Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-04 |
Well.... whoever wins, I think that Hollywood should be careful about the whole double-dip issue. You don't want to alienate consumers by forcing them to upgrade to the new format because it will include added footage or bonus features. Just too early and ugly at this point to make any kind of predictions. DVDs are extremely popular and I think the majority of folks are going to shy away from the whole HD scene for a long time, so I don't think it matters who gets out the door first. Cost is important but people still want the most for their money and that depends on the type of consumer. Me, for example, would opt for Blu-ray because of its higher capacity I could also use for PC storage. I think PS3 will be a strong driving force for Blu-Ray that Sony will force but the PS3 will NEVER EVER EVER use all that space. The Xbox2 is a big question mark right now but I doubt they will go with Blu-ray because of cost. Nintento will probably still use some variant of their mini-DVD format but I am just speculating. Most movie studios are probably going to opt for HD-DVD because of cost and piracy protection. But I seriously don't see one format winning over the other. Neither side is going to give up and I seriously think we are going to get stuck with two formats. Even though the idea of a universal media format sounds nice and is ideal, in the real world its just not practical. Look at the whole DVDA/SACD/DualDisc mess we're in. Most people are going to stick with CD and mp3 for a long time to come. So these are very small niche markets, but I support them wholeheartedly. It all depends on the type of consumer, and in my case I am very interested in high resolution audio. But most people don't care and are going to stick with mp3s etc because of cost and convenience (and to be honest most people dont care about or notice a difference in the quality). Its a shame but these are the facts of life. In the mean time, I'm going to continue to enjoy HDTV on my 60" Sony Grand Wega IV and my DVD/CD/DVDA/SACD/DualDisc collection using some very high end equipment. Have a nice day :-) BTW, I think the whole PSP/UMD movies thing is a complete joke. Whoever falls for this crap should check their brain for damage. I predict imminent death for this junk. Maybe if they offered this crap for sane prices... My post was based on opinion and speculation so don't flame. |
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Bronze Member Username: DatraderPost Number: 12 Registered: Mar-05 |
Forget abot HD-DVD or blu-ray. Microsoft has already had Media Player 9 HD format (1080p). If microsoft can work with movie studio and have movie in this format, I will just connect my PC to my HDTV to watch movie (they have already had few short movies in 1080p). If microsoft moves fast to get the content, both HD-DVD and blu-ray will miss out. Downloading the 1080p movies will take too long. If netflix can ship 1080p HD movies hard drives that can be played on PC, there will be no need for blu-ray for the purpose of watching HD movies, since in the foreseable future, the best TVs can only display 1080p movies. |
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NoJoo Unregistered guest |
It's not feasible to sell movies on harddisks, hence the HD-DVD/BluRay -thing. But like I mentioned, it's not current. People have just bought/buying DVD-stuff. They need a good reason to change to the next format. It's not as much waiting, as it is just not caring. Where does it mention that BluRay will be out half-year later? All I remember seeing, is that it'll be later, but not how much. As a PC user, I will rather not think "right now", as much as "in the long run", in which case BluRay is definetly better. 20G somehow adds up, even by itself. Also, it's not how much it costs, it's how much you get for your money. If you see a disk for 3 dollars and one for 5, knowing that the first has 30GB and the latter 50GB, there's no sure winner. If it's $3 and $4, 50 gigs is the choice. The UMD-thing is quite funny. I wouldn't pay over 5 bucks, if even that, to see a movie on such a small screen. Or on the move. Good thing everyone should be able to rip their own movies for the PSP, eh? |
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ElectricHead Unregistered guest |
Hey, wake up now! Whoever supports Blu-Ray is working against his own interests. SONY is kinda evil - higher prices, compatibility problems, ridiculous copy protections..... Don't get fooled, HD-DVD is a more 'open' standard - there is much more capacity possible in the future - not so easy with Blu-Ray. Honestly, there is not 1 argument to support Blu-Ray. Regards |
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TDO Unregistered guest |
BD-R and BD-RE (rewritable) are in developement. Also, a BD triple drive is in developement, it supports CD, DVD and BD. |
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IronCamel Unregistered guest |
Most people are forgetting one very important thing here. The average consumer isn't gonna make a difference in the first six months because the players will be too expensive to make them feasible. I bought my first DVD player in 1997. It was an entry level JVC and cost me $700 on an open box buy. Only one video store in town had DVDs to rent (12 total), and they were around $25-30 to buy. This doesn't even include things like before dual layer DVD when we had "flipper" discs where you had to flip it half way through like with Laserdisc. How many "average" consumers would have made that purchase? The first players will be so expensive no one but the die hard early adopters will be willing to buy them. It will be at least 2-3 years before these players are in the price range of the "average" consumer. Till then their choice means nothing. The people who are willing to shell out $1k or more for the first players will have a HUGE influence on who wins. Most of these people will adopt Blu-Ray because of it technical superiority. The DVD disc took nearly 5 years on the market before it started setting sales records and being adopted en masse. Partially because of player price (read: sub $300) and partially because the movies came down to $10-15 each. It doesn't matter what the "average" consumer will do that you should be worrying about. It's the guys with lots of disposable cash that will pick the winner. |
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Anonymous |
Blu-Ray? HD-DVD? Heck, I'm still buying LASERDISCS, people As a third option, there's always D-VHS. |
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Anonymous |
I don't think we will have to worry about these players costing as much as the original DVD players did. DVD did not have to fight a war, and therefore it didn't have to be competitively priced. I bet the first HD-DVD players will be around $4-5 hundred, but once Blue-Ray comes out, the prices will start to fall. By the end of 2006 an HD-DVD player will be around $200, and that is not out of most people's price range. |
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cowtalk Unregistered guest |
I am horrified at the thought of another Beta/VHS fiasco. I hope we don't make the incredibly stupid move of again adopting an inferior format, in this case HD-DVD. Why would consumers choose the technologically inferior HD-DVD over Blu-Ray? It's a bizarre paradox. Wouldn't an HD-DVD purchaser be buying it because of it's superiority to DVDs? Of course. So why would that same purchaser not purchase Blu-Ray since it is better than HD-DVD? Do you see the frustrating madness. We can only hope that we aren't stupid enough to eliminate the technically superior Blu-Ray. For decades we suffered with the inferior VHS format when we could've had Beta. Are we bound to repeat ourselves again. I agree with others that it's an insult to say we as "consumers can't tell the difference." But they as technocrats can? They are superior, but we can't tell the difference. Isn't it odd that the same people tell us we need to buy HD tv's and HD-DVD so we can see the difference. But they claim there is a cap to our visual and aural senses and the cap is HD-DVD. I say that's ridiculous. I say the technology cap is Blu-Ray. But that's still not the ultimate cap. We see 1000 lines of resolution in HD, and we see it interlaced (720 progressive). I still notice the inferiority to film in even the best HD tv's. Right now, blu-ray is the best. But we still have further to go. We need 4000 lines of resolution if we want to kill film. Right now, Blu-Ray's the best we've got. Why the devil would we pick HD-DVD's paltry attempt. Buy Blu-Ray. Even if you have to wait a couple of months. Don't make the rest of us wallow in VHS world again. |
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Anonymous |
Sony, Toshiba Seek Unified DVD Format @ Yahoo. |
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Anonymous |
I would choose blu-ray over hd-dvd simply because it is more advanced, and the storage capability is extremely necessary. However, I did a school presentation on blu-ray and had to do extensive research etc. I discovered that blu-ray has encryption that is said to be impossible to crack because it changes every 6kbytes. If you want to know more about blu-ray, read about it here; http://www.blu-ray.com/ and also search on google etc. This would mean bad news if you want to back up your high definition movies. |
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Anonymous |
The market itself will choose the best to survive, the best may not be in pure technical terms. price, transition, content support, that's the reality. As in many case, price and content support always rule. in the past, the capital letter name thing always wins, some ppl just don't know what is Blu-Ray, or even can't pronounce it. |
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Anonymous |
Reuters reports More Electronics Firms Join Debate to End DVD War. |
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Fazal Majid Unregistered guest |
A pox on both houses. Blu-Ray is clearly superior, but I am going to sit this one out. No matter how this turns out, early adopters are the ones most likely to be screwed. |
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Tiger Unregistered guest |
Disc capacity is not the issue, Toshiba already has methods of increasing it immensely. Sony is all about greed and to lock up a format - it's all about their PS3 - doesn't anyone get it? Hollywood does and that's why they won't support BluRay. BluRay is a new format, unlike DVD and not even compatible. Sony is now on their knees knocking on Toshiba's door, they have no choice, they know they were beat. |
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ElectricHead Unregistered guest |
Tiger is absolutely right, the people who think Blu-Ray has more capacity didn't understand the whole problem with SONY. Blu Ray is completely IDIOTIC. |
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Muerte sony Unregistered guest |
The only good format sony invented was Betamax. MiniDisc - piece of sh*t. CD - was not good in the first 10 years (sound quality). SACD - they lied about the quality and technique - far worse than DVD-Audio. BluRay - nobody needs it cos HD-DVD is better in nearly every aspect. |
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Bronze Member Username: DatraderPost Number: 14 Registered: Mar-05 |
http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5675480.html the HD DVD war is over, as long as i can find movies in microsoft wmv9.0 format. There are already a bunch of movies (T2, etc) in this format on amazon, in DVD. This format all I need. I prefer playing movie via my computer, with DVI output to my HDTV. No need to buy another HD DVD or bue ray player. let them drag their feet, they are loosing this already. microsoft and the moview studio should work together put more movie in wmv HD format. There is a HUGE demand for this! I hope someone from MS or hollywood is reading this. |
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Bronze Member Username: DatraderPost Number: 15 Registered: Mar-05 |
more wmv 9.0 HD movie tiles that can be played on PC available: http://www.highdefinitionrentals.com/CDA5240F87574D8387EBDE8FEC733210/store/stor e.asp?OpenA=1809&nProductTypeID=1809 this eliminates the need for another hd dvd or blu ray player ... HD movies are here already ... |
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rEject Unregistered guest |
Anyone saying anything about PS3 needs to get with the times... Sony has announced that it is working on a hybrid. So let's all end this debate and move on... k... good |
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Troy Heagy Unregistered guest |
"30GB is enough for most PC games well into the near future. Given even the largest games so far are 5GB, and given improvements in compression techniques," . You've forgotten your own past. Look at how games have scaled during the last decade: 1990 = 1 megabyte (final fantasy 3) 1995 = 8 megabyte (final fantasy 6) 2000 = 2500 megabyte (ff9) 2005 = 10,000 megabytes (dual layer xenosaga 2) Games are already approaching HD-DVD's 30,000 megabyte limit. It would be silly to pick a standard that game-makers would quickly fill up. If technology keeps growing as it did 1990-to-2005, games will be at ~50,000 megabytes! troy |
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DVDtech Unregistered guest |
Nobody has mentioned H.264. H.264 is the compression codec being used for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray formats. |
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dunlop Unregistered guest |
Does anyone remember who decided the VHS vs Beta war? It's the same people that will decide the HD-DVD vs Blu Ray war. The Adult Film Industry. It's no joke. Both the CE Sponsers and Toshiba are courting the multi billion dollar XXX industry very hard to get them on board. In the end, watch which way the adult film industry leans because that will decide the winner. |
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Daerc Unregistered guest |
Honestly, the way I look at it is this. Which would you rather have as an owner of a company? A format which you can use with only a cheap upgrade, that you can easily produce discs with, or a format that is a bit larger, but is vastly more expensive if you do equivalent space, and where you'd have to retool your entire shop? Toshiba has gotten the HD-DVDs up to 45 gig already, so who knows how it will end. |
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Dutchman Unregistered guest |
I cannot believe how many postings are just looking at the situation today and mostly talking about movie storage. The V in DVD stands for Versatile - not Video. The future DVD disks will to a very large extent be used for data storage and the PC players will no doubt cost approximately 25-30% of the high-end living room models. The normal 4.7 Gb storage space on a single-layer DVD of today is VERY SMALL. That is why everybody uses dual-layer DVD's to get to 9 Gb. Having a new technology with the capacity of 1.5 old DVD's is no huge step for mankind. If you do any form of home movie editing you easily end up with approx 12 Gb of raw material which you might want to save for future re-editing purposes. 9 Gb of hard disk space was also "enough" 4 years ago. People might be better off waiting for dual-layer versions of the new standard since the single-layer does not take you very far, especially not with HD-DVD. I am not sure about the XXX industry but my understanding is that price is also quite important there, meaning that they will stick to conventional DVD's rather than going for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. And don't they still use VHS picture quality on their DVD's ... ;-) |
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The General Unregistered guest |
It'll be interesting for those of us still around in 30 years to look back on this debate. <heh> There'll likely be some debate raging about which Bioorganic semi-AI storage format is best. And someone will inevitibly say that 700TB is plenty, why do we need 800? |
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John Lewis Unregistered guest |
Remember that Blu-Ray disks are far more susceptible to non-repairable damage than HD-DVD. Remember the 0.1mm thickness to the recording surface vs 0.6mm. Don't want use your DVD/CD polisher on a Blu-Ray disk. If the DVD rental people such as Netflix and Blockbuster weigh in, the result should be a foregone conclusion in favor of HD-DVD |
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Anonymous |
I agree completely with IronCamel, the first-gen players and recorders for both formats will be priced out of the range of most consumers. I understand that prices will be lower with competition, but they certainly won't be low enough after one year. Although I haven't seen any statistical data supporting it, my opinion is that they're aren't enough HDTV owners in the world to sustain the kind of high volume sales that low prices would require. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will face the same struggles as DVD-Audio and SACD. They only offer improved quality--no extra convinience. How long has it taken for DVD-Audio and SACD players to cost less than $300.00? (no really, tell me. I don't know.) I recently bought a 30" HDTV, but only because it cost $400; I wouldn't have bought for the usual price of $800. In the end, Blu-Ray will probably win. Why? Because PS3 will sell tens of millions of units. Some of you are saying that PS3 will be bought for gaming only, and that the Blu-Ray support won't matter. I don't think so. The fact that it's a gaming machine means that Sony can sneak a Blu-Ray player into our entertainment rooms without even trying. Lots of people will buy a $300-$500 gaming console, which just so happens to play Blu-Ray disks. Not many will buy a $300-$500 Blu-Ray player, which may or may not play DVD's. Ultimately, whichever format's player/recorder ends up in Wal*Mart first will be the winner. ( ^_^ ) |
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gung Unregistered guest |
who cares who wins blu ray or hd dvd . we the consumer want a player that will be multi format . play blu ray and hd dvd. |
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dlik23 Unregistered guest |
There's absolutely no reason now to support HDDVD: 1) Blue ray discs will cost the same as current dvds in the long run source: http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050525_144443.html 2) Since PS3 will be compatible with pretty much every format, except hddvd, you can expect other blue-ray disc players to also be compatible with current dvds/cds etc. 3) Blue ray disc won't be out much longer than hddvd http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050503_115512.html So as you can see I really don't see any point behind hddvd. Inferior technology, no gaming system using it and linked with hollywood who only cares about how to protect their movies from piracy |
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dli2k3 Unregistered guest |
Actually, you can find everything about blu-ray on www.blu-ray.com And the 100gb blue-ray will absolutely pwn the hddvd. |
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New member Username: JpjdjpjdPost Number: 1 Registered: May-05 |
people on here that complain about blu ray's protection being more superior and that they won't be able to make copies of their store bought movies should be ashamed! making copies of copyright material is AGAINST THE LAW and in the end is stealing money from my pocket along with all the rest of us who work in the film industry. it's the same with mp3's and music theft. slowly you put more and more people out of work in this industry and lower the quality of movies and music being produced. think before u do. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 84 Registered: May-05 |
Hear we go again, another why of milking the consumer, us yes. So if there is going to be a future format that’s going to be better over DVD with the HD-DVD format let it be I hope, but I’m not going to pay for something that is going to be over costly it as to be affordable to us the consumer. Everybody is a consumer waver we like it or not, everybody, one thing the data information stored on the disc is greater over DVD so will we see SDDS 8 channel coming to this format as SDDS 8 has been out for 13 years now and Dolby and dts is getting a bit boring for me now, and I believe this is doable and it’s a true 7.1 sound format with five screen channel left, left centre, centre, right centre, and right with split-stereo surrounds and LFE is a must have and with films like the Todd-Ao ones like The sound of music, south pacific, and other titles like my fair lady, west side story, and some of the early six-track Dolby stereo films like Logan’s run which I think had five screen channel and one mono surround, for those who don’t understand, but I’m sure they do. And the original mix for Star Wars which was had the baby boom track that is the left centre and the right centre was replaced with a sub bass track and one mono surround, though engineers realised this was a waste of soundtrack information which is why we have what we call to day 5.1 Dolby digital, thanks to Superman the movie which was the first Dolby 5.1 film as an experiment that worked out very well, and now with the digital domain upon us with many techniques and possibilities to give the home theatre home cinema medium a new meaning in sight and sound. Ashley |
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BLU-RAYkillsHD-DVD Unregistered guest |
I think that the Blu-Ray Disk should win, let me put this in another view: If you can get a car that can get 100-200 miles to the gallon, GREAT!, but if you wait a little longer,you can get a car that gets 140-280 mpg, then you really would rather take that right? I know for a fact that computer people and movie lovers will agree that Blu-Ray is better, 40% more memory! thats like buying a hard drive, think, if BLu-Ray wins, you can basicly back up your ENTIRE HARD DRIVE on 1 or 2 disks. IF YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT HD-DVD IS BETTER THAN BLU-RAY DISKS, THAN I SUGGEST YOU LAY OFF OF THE OPIUM AND METH... |
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Mitch Hanes Unregistered guest |
Here are the specs for both disks: BD__________HD-DVD_____________Type 25gb________15gb ______________Storage* 405nm_______405nm______________Laser w. length 54mbs_______36mbs______________Data Trans. Rate** MPEG2----------MPEG2______-------\ MPEG4 AVC---MPEG4 AVC_---------Supported formats VC1***--------------VC1***_____-------/ *dual layered=x2, dual layer both sides=x4 **How quickly they burn/read ***A.K.A. WMV 9 (Windows Media Video 9) In all aspects the BD won, have the same formats and compatibility as most dvds/video today, and have 40% more capacity for video or software, games have came from roughly 1 megabyte in the early '90s to 10 gigabytes + this year, some people say that an HD-DVD can handle games, but at this rate 50gb from BD is all we can hope for, the film industry wants safety, but p2p networks today will thrash it without a doubt, so disk protection (for copyrights at least) will not honeslty make a large difference). With the exception of new machines to create the BD discs, the BD and HD-DVD will be within 5-10% of eachother in cost, so, you can buy a dual layered HD-DVD for $20, with 14-15 hours of normal, non HD video on it, or a dual layered BD with 28-30 hours of the same stuff on it for only $21-22. The Playstation 3 will gratly help launch the format of BD, in Japan, the first year of the PS2's debut the dvd market rose roughly 40%! If the PS3 can pull that off the price of the equipment and media for BD will drop drastically and become alot more consumer and business friendly. HD-DVD has the film industry backing it, but BD has over 15 of the leading franchises/businesses in digital and computer medium, from Sony to Toshiba, JVC to Panasonic, the list goes on. As for us computer people and gamers, the BD is best, being able to back up an 80gb hard drive on 2 dual layer discs or 1 dl/ds'ed disk is awesome, and, a vast majority of games will be able to be played straight from the disc, without the need to compress memory to fit a game on a disc, valuable hd space will be kept for other things... for photographers you can put thousands of high quality pics on ONE disc. I don't know about you, but once you lay down the facts and balance the pros and cons for both meduims of digital entertainment, the choice is like picking a multi-million dollar mansion, or a broken down hovel in Ethiopia. |
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Anonymous |
the fact is better is not always winner, we, as a consumer, want better stuff for the same price. but consumer wants the content rather than the disc itself, so whichever gets more content support will win. just like people will buy the game console with more games. BR gets more computer related support, but the fact is that not every computer being used is equipped with even a DVD-ROM. BR has to get the movie industry support to win. |
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anuva person Unregistered guest |
seriously, who uses there ps2 or xbox to watch dvds? I myself bought a stand alone dvd player first, only children want the game console before a stand alone movie player. Whoever suggested that sony is trying to use the ps3 as a ploy to dominate with there blu ray format is right. |
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eric daluka Unregistered guest |
think about it people who think the ps3 will be the main factor to the war. If the hd dvd format takes off when it comes out, i'm sure sony will release the ps3 when its finished with a hd dvd rom instead. Sony may be greedy but they're not morons. |
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Anonymous |
Blu-ray will win this war for one simple reason; Sony. Think about it. How many people bought the PSX when it came out and the PS2? Now, take that into acount and think of the PS3 Anybody who buys a PS3 has a Blu-ray player. That will be an awfull lot of people. Nobody with a PS3 will go out and bu an HD-DVD player. If Sony are invloved in anything, Sony win |
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Anonymous |
Yeah i agree with the above post, Sony have just joined the handheld market. Watch the PSP blow Nintendo (which have dominated this market since the Game Boy) away. |
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Anonymous |
Blu-ray is dumb, at least for movies. Anybody who does much work in movie editing will tell you that increasing the bit rate helps quality, but ONLY TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. There comes a point where the human eye just can't distinguish the quality. I.e., for DVD video, the human eye can't distinguish between a 15mb/sec and 20mb/sec clip. Same holds true for HDTV. The human eye can't perceive the difference between 30mb/sec and 50mb/sec. So why bother encoding at those high bit rates? just so you can fill up that blu-ray disc? blu-ray will be able to hold more content, but it won't be higher quality video, at least not a difference that we can perceive. Blu-ray might be helpful when we have hyper-HDTV (like 2000 lines of resolution), but you are going to be waiting a long time for that happen. Maybe 20 years. Stick to HD-DVD. XBOX 360 will have it, and will be out first. |
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dli2k3 Unregistered guest |
There's no mention so far that xbox 360 will have anything other than cd/dvd. Besides, these discs are not used only for movies. As for PS3 well, it's funny how PS3's spec far outmatch xbox 360's and blu-ray outmatch hddvd . So a PS3 with blu-ray is still the perfect solution. |
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videophile Unregistered guest |
What makes you think that capacity or bitrate has anything to do with quality? What matters is the time and effort the studios devote to any given title. There's a world of difference between a good DVD and a bad one that is all down to the effort put in to encode it. The same would be true of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. This war has got less to do with video quality or what the consumer wants and more to do with revenue from technology licence fees. |
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ruddiger Unregistered guest |
Blu ray will be bleeding edge technology when the PS3 is released. It won't be anywhere near cheap. I don't see how shoehorning very expensive and for 90% of the population, useless technology into a games console is a strategy for success. Sony have a thing for pushing their licensed proprietary formats and they've failed plenty of times. MiniDisc, Memory sticks, ATRAC compression. Their OCD treatment of Betamax licensing prevented adult studios from using the format, which led to the success of VHS, which almost anyone could use. Adult production exceeds that of hollywood movies. If Sony's control freaks even allow adult movies to be published on Blu Ray, adult producers will choose HD-DVD anyway because adult titles are produced in much lower volumes than hollywood, and their manufacturing costs per unit are relatively large because of this. If a factory can spit out HD-DVDs at $1 each, and Blu-Ray is $5, the $4 difference is a significant issue. MGM's library is overhyped. Anything produced before the late 80s will be edited optically and look bad on HD anyway. George Lucas had a team repaint each frame of Star Wars (1977) to get it up to scratch. 99% of old movies aren't going to get that treatment, or anything near it. |
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Annonymous Unregistered guest |
Why are are we fighting about this? Blu-Ray and HD DVD a both going to be fossils (like VHS) in a few years. Within less than a decade we'll have something like pettabyte discs that can be cranked out for under a dollar |
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New member Username: Rayl_jrPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-05 |
Blu-ray has momentum, even if HD-DVD is 1st. History can & does repeat itself often. But I imagine the race to be more like the tortoise & the hare, & Blu-ray eventually will STEAMROLL over the HD-DVD (though HD-DVD could possibly last as long as the zip disk or laserdisc...). Then will come the nano terabit “flash memory-punch card” technology along with nano based paper-thin printable displays... |
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Anonymous |
I think its funny that someone a few posts ago said that the human eye can't tell the difference in the data/bit rate. this maybe true on a small tv but on a large plasma/lcd or high quality projector it makes all the difference. a 27" diag will look the same on blu-ray or just a plain dvd but what about 127" diag picture from a projector? when it comes down to which format wins, it will be determined at the retail level, seller and buyer, if the buyer wants it and its on one format, the seller gets more of that format and they win (for a few years till we have this problem again) ps3s are a mute point because just like ps2 they make only a small portion of dvd playing units sold and used every day |
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Unregistered guest |
While the HDTV technologies are not stable yet, how can we expect a final format for storage? I guess we have to wait for 3-4 four years before things settle down - 1. price 2. technology uniformity and stability 3. availability of content Present DVDs will rule for a while, no doubt. |
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Mackintire Unregistered guest |
Genius whom thinks that bitrate only increases quality a little this is for you. When you have a high action movie that is long in length, such as The Matrix II, there is nowhere enough bitrate to keep the scene clean looking. You would need a HD-DVD amount of space to encoded the movie 720x480 (Normal DVD spec) to keep the movie clean and artifact free. Granted that is one of the most taxing movies on the market. Maybe the anwser is partly that HD-DVD movies should come out as 720P and Blue-Ray movies should be released as either 720P 0r 1080P. Secondly is Blueray wants to will the format war all they have to do is make the manufactures include HD-DVD support into every Blueray player. HD-DVD will initally own the low end markey and Blueray will own the highend. If you want the best experiance then buy Blue-Ray. Include a DVD encode on the otherside of the disk for backward compatibility. As long as Blue-Ray doesn t cost 20% more then HD-DVD they ve got it made. |
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Doax Unregistered guest |
There's no mention so far that xbox 360 will have anything other than cd/dvd. Besides, these discs are not used only for movies. As for PS3 well, it's funny how PS3's spec far outmatch xbox 360's and blu-ray outmatch hddvd . So a PS3 with blu-ray is still the perfect solution. Lol you playstation fan boys kill me. The PS3 doesn't even exist! All that stuff they showed at E3 was all pre-rendered Video with nothing at all to do with the PS3. HD-DVD will win. Anyone want to place some beats? |
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DS2005 Unregistered guest |
Haha, the joke is both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray lose no matter what way you have it. The sad thing is techies read too many tech magazines instead of things that give you a balanced idea of what is going on. The real winners are MS, they unlike Sony or Toshiba, have full backing from Hollywood. Windows Vista supports both formats and many Hollywood companies now want movies streamed or downloaded from the internet. However I still believe Sony have lost it anyhow. They are fighting far bigger companies and have released a complicated and hard to produce format. The average consumer, where it really matters, will not even know the differnce and will (as they always have done) go for the cheaper and simpler format. It is interesting because even the president of Sony believes that the format may be going down the pan. Sony have never won a format war and it is silly to think that they are going to anytime soon. In terms of PS3, well from many surveys we see that does not even matter. We are not going to see the emergence of any form of HD media technology for at least another five years, the same as it took for VHS and DVD. |
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Jon T Unregistered guest |
Those who supposedly understand technology should know that this is not Betamax vs. VHS, this is more like DVD +R vs. DVD -R, or DVD RAM. Sony is trying to put themselves in a monopoly position, and just like Betamax they will fail if they don't start working towards compatibility before it's to late. We have already heard that the price of the PS3 is going to be outrageous, where the DVD HD equipped Xbox 360 will be somewhat of a bargain in comparison. With both of the latter coming to market first, and Microsoft backing HD-DVD, there is no doubt who will win. Since they have already made a 3 layer HD-DVD that holds 45 gb, and word that a 4 layer is on the way, I don't think size is that much of an issue. Since I own a Toshiba 65 HDTV, and think it is the best deal for the money, my vote is for HD-DVD. If Sony really wants to play fair, they better get busy making a player that supports both formats at a decent price. Otherwise they can take their expensive toys and go home. |
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o_O Unregistered guest |
I believe HD-DVD will win, this will be apparent when the movies Sony owns are on the HD-DVD format. |
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DancingMoose Unregistered guest |
As a computer guy, I love the idea of more storage capacity, so I lean towards blu-ray. As a movie consumer, I want something cheap, don't own an HDTV, so I lean HD-DVD. The whole idea behind blu-ray's "watermark" bugs me, as I purchase my movies legaly, then like to store them on a server in my home to stream to different parts of the house. I have no doubt that there will eventually be a decoder, but until that happens, I'm staying away. I think I'll just ride this one out until one stands on top or they become more integrated like DVD-r and DVD+r. I'm in no rush as long as both the new formats will be backwards-compatible. |
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Unregistered guest |
What if, technologically speaking, we were to segregate the two technologies to seperate uses? For example, 15gb/layer v. 20gb/layer may not mean much to mom and pop consumers (far and away the vast majority of current DVD player/media purchasers) who often times are just interested in the films/shows, and maybe some outtakes too. Now on the HD-DVD format, they could still pander to the "Hi-Def" gotta have techie as well as the average consumer market, as they would still be able to provide quality entertainment in an exciting new format to the consumer. More interactive options, Hi-Def quality picture/sound, more media, and a lower price-point (initially) that would lead to quicker introduction into the home markets of the world. From a business stand point, backing HD-DVD for home media usage is the most immediately financially gratifying, as it has the lowest price-point of the two, as well as rather simple manufacturing processes that would require less retooling of current production plants. Technological advances aside, HD-DVD would be a step in the right direction for home media use. Now lets look at the other side of the coin. The tech-savvy Blu-ray format. Far and away technologically superior to HD-DVD, it is clearly the best choice for Gaming, Application, and home PC/MAC usage. First of all, it does have substantially more storage than HD-DVD. Second, and more importantly, it would be much more versatile in its application and developement than HD-DVD. And third, perhaps most important of all, early reports indicate that it would have a faster transfer rate than HD-DVD. And if you ask any techie, speed is often the most important aspect of any network/PC/MAC component. Bearing in mind that consumers are already used to purchasing multiple electronic formats (DVD v. PS2 Discs v. XBox discs v. PC DVD-ROM v. Audio CD v. SCCD, etc.), it would not be very difficult to once again sell them on the idea that Blu-ray is for applications/interactive use, and HD-DVD is for watching movies and music. Though this is antithetical to the typical promises of technological Nirvana (one format, one machine, all data, all uses) put forth by Sony, Microsoft, Toshiba, etc., it would be hard for them, or any media provider, DVD manufacturer, or CE manufacturer to deny the financial rewards of producing multiple forms of content (videogames, audio discs, movie discs, data discs) instead of 1 catch-all format. This is shameful, as I personally think it'd be awesome to buy a movie, get the bonus features, play the videogame of that movie, and listen to the soundtrack all on one disc. But, the IP rights to something like that could easily push that format into the $250+ range. Good luck ever getting the typical electronics consumer to bust out more than $60 on a single disc, regardless of its content. Maybe someday, when we're all living in the Matrix, but not today.  Now, bearing all of the above in mind... lets count the scores. Consumers will win, because we wont be stuck only watching half of the movies we really would like to see because we chose one format v. another. Media Producers and Manufacturers will win, because they wont be losing a portion of a potential market due to format allegiance. CE Manufactures will win, because they'd likely be able to produce equpiment for either format, with varying price points and manufacturing costs based on the product's usage. Retailers will win beacuse they will not have to waste their time explaining Blu-ray v. HD-DVD and why Mom and Pop can't get a Blu-ray copy of The Best of The Andy Griffith Show to play on their HD-DVD player. And us rare few, the techies, those who motivate, create, and promote all technological change within society, will win, because we'll be getting HD media sooner, and superior hi-capacity data storage and usage in the long run. By not mixing the two formats, and keeping each one more use-specific, each format will then allow content creators to be more focused on deriving the maximum potential benefits from each one. Seperate but equal was not the right idea for the American school system, but is the right way to go in the new media technology arms race. |
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HD-DVD ... The Bluray Killer! also hacker friendly Unregistered guest |
Either way dvd+r is gonna be the new vcd. ppl will want the format that can be backedup the easist & fastest. Your try backing up a 50 gig movie to dvd+r (try 48 hrs on a p4) Meanwhile HD-DVD is have both movies on 1 disc (dvd & hd-dvd)so that when u pop the hd-dvd in a standard dvd player it will read the standard dvd portion of the disc. from that portion we can make backups rightfuly from our purchased hd-dvds.C'mon ppl get a grip ... the future is HD-DVD! Backwards compatable & all! |
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Stephanie1980 Unregistered guest |
Hi to all ...I have a public, I mean pubic azz hair. When I take a crap welllll it sticks to my azz & remains unwipeable forcing a sticky smelly sensation all day long (or until shower) Sometimes I wipe the wrong way & all the sauces are brought forward to my vaginal area sticking to the hair there also. |
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Jon T Unregistered guest |
Yep, it's just peachy that Sony has a 200gb version, and what do you want to bet one a blank one of these babies will cost nearly as much as a 200gb hard drive. Sony seems to have forgotten who these products serve. Trying to control the media with watermarks, and layers of supposedly unbreakable encryption will guarantee Blu-Ray is a failure. Can't wait to see the price of the Playstation 3 that will supposedly have a Blu-Ray drive. This is a company seems to think the public enjoys paying more for their proprietary products that are only compatible with other Sony products. The format that wins this war will be the one that is most user and computer friendly.... Microsoft has given their blessing to HD-DVD, and the fat lady has sung. |
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Unregistered guest |
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH JON T,EVERYONE HERE THAT SAYS BLUE RAY THE BEST BLUE RAY CAN NOT BE STOPPED!! WELL, YOU ARE WRONG! JUST WAIT TILL YOU SEE THE WONDERFUL PRICE OF A BLUE RAY DISC! IM NOT SURE BUT FROM WHAT IV READ, I HEARD THAT THE BLUE RAY DISC IS 1/8 THINNER THEN A DVD DISC.GOODLUCK TO DROPPING THAT BLUE RAY DISC THAT HOLDS 200GIGS on 8 layers, DONT KNOW WHAT YOU WILL CRY FOR MORE.THE 200GIGS OR THE $100 CD YOU JUST PAID FOR!!! Id rather have 4cd's with 50gigs on each one so just incase i do break one,its not all gone.I do understand that alot of big companies have signed up for blue ray disc's, but people wont pay that much for any blue ray writers recorders or whatever you want.They just want something plain,simple and most important CHEAP!50gig movie, please! half of the movie wont even be visible to the human eye.Someone goes to a store and there is a HD-DVD and a BRD player infront of him and the salesman tells him they do both the same job and they see the HD-DVD is more cheaper,what do you think he will get.I think at the end of the day the reasonable way to go is HD-DVD.cheaper,more reliable,computer friendly and not so heart sore if you drop one. |
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/ok Unregistered guest |
it depends on who will get the first rewritable unit simple, isn't? |
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d-rod Unregistered guest |
I agree with Kyle's post on March28. I believe Blu-ray will win the war because of the PS3. Now that XBOX 360 will not have a HD DVD player in people will be purchasing a HD player for video game play. This will keep people from having to buy $1000 hd players. The only thing that can screw up blu-ray is the cost factor. If the discs are substantially more than people will never get behind it. Let's see how greedy Sony really is. |
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Anonymous |
My name is Adam Ward and I love men |
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Anonymous |
HD DVD or BLUE RAY.... or VMD? BIG SURPRISE ... lesser known VMD is all set to blow all the big players out of the market!!! VERSATILE MULTILAYER DISC or VMD is the next big thing that is almost certain to replace DVD. They claim to offer a disc with capacity of 100 GB for the price of a standard DVD... Apparently they have developed this awesome VMD based on Red Laser technology that uses the same DVD type of disc BUT stores and reads several layers of data. I think all you guys interested in DVD and High Definition should check it out on the net: www.nmeinc.com |
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Anonymous |
I read an article about a month ago in a reliable video gaming magazine where they stated that current video games are limited only by the capabilities of the current hardware. 3D animators have the ability to bring the highest graphics performing systems under development to their knees, even crashing the entire system. Imagine how much code that takes and then look at the amazing graphics of the most modern games that run smoothly on these performance computers. soon enough gamers and the people writing the programs are going to want and need space, so the disc that will be able to have great potential in the future for storing huge data should become the norm. even if blue lasers arent introduced now, they will be introduced later because of their efficiency at storage capacity. |
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Arclight Unregistered guest |
http://www.optware.co.jp/english/what_040823.htm Sheesh, 1TB of data! its really too bad that SONY and Toshiba didn't drop their formats and work together on this one. Pride is such a crutch. |
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Wilshire001 Unregistered guest |
Microsoft backs HD-DVD, my guess is the juggernaught wins again. |
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Anonymous7 Unregistered guest |
Yay VHS! Oops, I mean HD-DVD. I want my HD-DVD and I want my instant gratification NOW! Somebody said sex decided VHS over Beta, well it's deja-vu all over again. You could get better sex on Beta or Blu-Ray, Butt (and it's a cute butt), HD-DVD sex is here now, ready for instant, worldly gratification. It's sad, sick, and true. The evil empire has decided. Microsoft doesn't make mistakes, ;) |
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Logic: Buy Some. Unregistered guest |
Are you all mad? It's amazing how many people are bad mouthing HD DVD because it has less space?! Open your eyes: 6 hours of 108p is more than enough playback. As it stands, the market for a 1080p res is very small. Good luck finding a reasonable HDTV that is that high of a res! By utilizing eaxe of production and baackwards technology, HD DVD will probably take off. Heres something to think about too though: Sony has its foot n the door when it comes to the movie industry, given that they own MGM. At any time sony could produce a mass of blu ray and kill the compotition now. But they don't, the sales of the next gen consoles are going to play a MAJOR role in this format war. I see microsoft coming out with a hd dvd drive after the launch of the xbox 360 (hd dvd has been confirmed for after the lauch now). When will it come? I have a feeling microsoft will do this at a good time, probably after the lauch of the ps3. a $100 hd dvd drive to get. By this time the price of HDTV should drop a little bit. Really the whole factor right NOW is not these next gen formats, but HDTV. The low percetage of people with them, and high price will force companies to lower prices for these new formats. Without hdtv anything but a dvd is pointless. whos to say that the drives that read hdtv cant read blu ray? they both have blue lasers and it would only make sense to make a drive that could read both formats. as far as i know the formats arent so dramatically different that this will be impossible. i think this gen and next gen have some variables that make these wars alittle harder to mainipulate. Its hard to compare this war with beta and vhs because back then things like consoles, computers, and high def wasnt a factor. These different things becomes weapons in the war and creating a product that can successfully bind all these things and at the same time dealing with producting cost, quality, etc. I am eager to see how this turns out. i got my money on hd dvd tho... for now im going to stick to my monocrome tv with a vhs and bunny ears. |
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userna,e Unregistered guest |
you have any clue what are you talking about. In the video domain, less compression = better quality, and more space = better quality of the movie, so the quality of a movie on a 100gb blu ray disk will be huge better . Wm9, divxhd all look like sh*t compared to mpeg2hd |
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Anonymous |
You all should wait for blue ray to come out before buying an hd-dvd player, because when blue ray comes out hd-dvd will be wiped out. Even the hd-dvd supporters know this because every single one of the suporting companys except 1 have now decied to release there movies in both formats, but as far as I know all of the huge list of blue ray supporters all will be releaseing there movies in just blue ray. (for more info check out www.blue-ray.com ) |
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Silver Member Username: XgrizzlyxPost Number: 129 Registered: Jul-04 |
who is still supporting HD-dvd? Warner Bros. Entertainment Joins Blu-ray Disc Association Paramount Home Entertainment to Support Blu-ray Disc Format HD-DVD is backed by Time Warner (Warner Bros., HBO and New Line), Universal (DreamWorks), and Paramount. that lives what dream works and intel, and microsoft i think blu-ray will be the winner |
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Anonymous |
First of all, stop using Sony's PS3 to promote Blu-ray discs. Sony is incapable of creating anything of quality format. Take the Playstation 2 for instance. They incorporated a DVD player into their system. However, I have read inimaginable amounts of information about the system having trouble reading DVDs, and on many accounts, even its own games. The DVD had been out for four years and they couldn't even create a simple DVD/ gaming system that could effectively do both. Now you're expecting them to instantly create a system that can read discs that aren't even out yet!!! Come on, if they can create a system that reads existing technology, they're going to have tons of trouble coming up with one that can read new technology. |
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New member Username: RoodymanPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
I'm not against the Blu-ray by any means, but I am against the PS3. I have also read countless errors with the PS2, and I feel that the PS3 will be no different. The XBox can effectively read DVDs, with little trouble. Not to mention, have you ever watched a DVD on a PS2. The quality sucks so much its unbearable. The PS3 is not an effective example to promote the new Blu-ray discs so stop using it!!! It sucks, plain and simple. |
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New member Username: John1335Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
Can you say DRM there's no way I'm getting Blu Ray Who cares about better picture? Will it really be that much better than the curent DVD9? As much as I like watching my favorite televison shows and movies the pictures are already gritty grainy and pale in color as it is because thats how The A-Team MacGyver and all my other shows were origanally filmed, so now it'll just look even grainier and grittier on Blu-Ray |
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Anonymous |
I disagree that cheaper will win out. For one, people who buy cheaper will wait until 1) prices come down, 2) the format "war" has been decided and 3) until they actually fork over the money for an HDTV in the first place. Most of us with HDTVs are the forerunners who choose quality and damn the price... there may be some people who run out and buy an HD-DVD player but these are generally the people who can afford to run out and buy a Blu-Ray player as soon as it is available as well. These are the same people who had both VHS and Beta... I am pushing for Blu-Ray but that doesn't mean I won't go out and buy an HD-DVD as well. Am I going to replace my whole collection of DVDs? No... just movies that deserve it and that were filmed in a format that will look good on HD. Really the only movies I can currently think of are the LOTRs, the last three (or first three whichever way you think about it) Star Wars and maybe the Harry Potters... most other movies (especially older movies) will be just as good (if not better) on regular DVDs because the digital information is just not there... (Just look at the mess they made of Star Wars: A New Hope when they tried to update it... it looks worse than it did originally...) |
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New member Username: PeeweePost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 |
Another large factor in this war is the next gen consoles,XBOX360 and PS3. PS3, made by sony, will be have a Blu Ray player packed nicely inside it. XBOX360 on the other hand, in there rush to get the console out early has had to ditch next gen players in favour of getting their console on the market first. It has been recently announced that a HD-DVD player will be available for the system, at another $200-$400. In addition the player will not be used for games, or so is the plan, and only for movies. Early indications from gamers with a XBOX360 are that they dont want to splsh out on a expensive add on that wont play HD-DVD games. This fact alone seems to be a deathblow to ever having a HD-DVD game. Sony, on the other hand, have done something very clever, which will benefit them, Blu Ray, and the consumer in the long run. By packing there next gen console with Blu Ray, they can market it as being 'future proof'. In addition, gamers buying the PS3 are also, perhaps unwittingly, buying themselves a Blu Ray player in addition to the console, for a massive knockdown price. Essentially, a fair few people will have Blu Ray in their living rooms in 2006. Somewhat ironically, the console war is a mirror of the Blu Ray HD-DVD war, with the PS3 and blu ray offering higher quality, at a higher price, and a little time, where as XBOX360 is inferior, but is nonetheless 'next gen' at a cheaper price, and a earlier release. By not supporting HD-DVD with the XBOX360, i feel that Microsoft have dealt themselves, and the HD-DVD format, a bit of a blow. Sony are focusing on getting Blu Ray out in poeples houses in order to gain the long term gain, whereas MS have rushed their console out, and left HD-DVD behind. On a personal note, i support Blu Ray. I feel that there is little reason to drag back, and for the public to go for a inferior format. I was not arround for the BetaMax Vhs confrontation, but i understand the lower quality VHS was taken over the BetaMax. I feel going for a cheap substitute, which is essentially what HD-DVD is, is a poor excuse to ditch a extra 20Gb of storage. I appreciate that smaller manufacturers may lose out becuase of the increased cost of Blu Ray developement, but i think a old consumerist phrase sums up my feelings. What the consumer wants, the consumer gets. The consumer wants more space, and thats what we shall get. As far as i can see, businesses supporting HD-DVD are breaking one of the golden rules of a company. Ypu provide for the consumer, and the consumer provides for you. It seems that thay are hoping to provide for themselves, and that the companys hope that the public will blindly follow them. |
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New member Username: PeeweePost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-06 |
Erm, to comment on people saying that Sony cant create a decent dvd reader. I have a PS2, and i play DVD movies on it regurlary. I have never once had a problem. I have had it for longer than i can remember now, and recently its started having problems reading discs. So, i took it over to a techy shop for someone to look at it. Turns out the lens had become covered in dust from my room. In addition, Sony are not primarily console producers. I believe they made much of their fame on CD-players, and later on TVs, DVD players at the like. For you to suggest that sony does not know what its doing is a bit of a strnge argument. If they dont, who does? I beleive that Sony actuually played a major role in the R+D of Blu Ray. Surely they must know a little bt about it? Thirdly, for you to deny that the console war will have no effect on this format war is just plain crazy. Games are becoming a ever larger entertainment medium, one which is not going unnoticed. Now, lets take a example of your average PS3 gamer, i.e. me. I Plan to buy a PS3, a and in the not too distant future to buy a HDTV to play it on. Once i have got my HDTV i will want to play HD movies on, and for arguments sake, lets say i dont mind wether it is HD-DVD or Blu Ray. However, assuming i have no bias at all on what format i would buy, which one do you think i would almost certainly go for. Do I: a)buy myself a HD-DVD player and then a HD-DVD movie b)buy myself a Blu Ray movie which one saves me more money? If you look closely, i think you may find the answer is b) Now, before you accuse me of being a Sony fanboy, let me first say that i am not, by a long way a Sony fanboy. However, i do think that MS have shot themselves in the foot, and at the same time, fired another round into HD-DVD. The XBOX360 gamers, with there HD TVs, and playing their HD games, may want to, at some point watch a HD movie on their HD TV. To do this, they have to buy a add-on to their XBOX 360, which wont even play HD-DVD games. How many 360 players will make this commitment do you think. I think it will be far less than PS3 uses making the 'commitment' to buy a Blu Ray disc with their fav movie on it. I think that proves (disregarding actual devoted HD-DVD and Blu Ray players) that more people will be buying Blu Ray than will be buying HD-DVD. These people buying these Blu Rays as a direct result of having a PC3 in their living room is not a insignificant number, i think, and it is plain to see, to any logical thinker, that the consoles cannot be discounted. |
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New member Username: GumraahColumbus , Oh Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 |
I remember while back reading about another standard it was GREEN RAY which will and can have many fold capacity than blue ray and I think there was some company working on it What ever happen to that and if that is being developed than why how is this future proof and why are we not making that standard, then other day on the news was holographic storage media which is much larger too. Now I am not here to confuse more but what is wrong with this whole picture are be set up for mid upgrade only to be told two years later that its not what we should have. |
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New member Username: FlctdcPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 |
02/21/06 This is the latest information. Your new Blue-Ray or HD-DVD player will NOT output 720p or 1080i from the component video jacks. The only highdef. output will be HDMI with HDCP encription. The disc will be encoded with a "flag" to limit the component output to 480p. See the web site listed. http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6300812.html The AACS (Advanced Access Content System) was approved for both systems. Partial of artical is below. See Wed Site for all. Some buyers of HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players might not get everything they bargained for. In a deal reached this week after tense negotiations, the eight-company consortium behind the Advanced Access Content System, created for use by both high-def formats to prevent unauthorized copying, has agreed to require hardware makers to bar some high-def signals from being sent from players to displays over analog connections, sources said. Instead, the affected analog signal must be “down-converted” from the full 1920x1080 lines of resolution the players are capable of outputting to 960x540 lines—a resolution closer to standard DVDs than to high-def. Standard DVDs are typically encoded at 720 horizontal by 480 vertical lines of resolution. The 960x540 standard stipulated in the AACS agreement represents 50% higher resolution than standard-def, but only one-quarter the resolution of full high-def. Whether a particular movie is down-converted will be up to the studio. The players will be required to recognize and respond to a digital flag, called an Image Constraint Token, inserted into the movie data. The general spec's will also alow that High Def. disc's can be played only at 480P unless the unit is attached to a phone line or internet connection. Permission to play the 720p or 1080i content would then be granted, and get this - they can charge you for a one time view at the higher resolution. It all out there on the Web if you take the time to search. My view is screw them. The increase of picture quality from a upconverted standard DVD to HD is about 20% depending on the up-converts in your player or TV. Plus with a format war in the making how would you like to be the one with the wrong choice. This is a good site for some interesting information. http://hddvd.org/hddvd/ |
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Anonymous |
There will be little to no visual/aural quality difference between Blu-Ray and HDDVD. The space provided by each format is more than ample for loads of video content in any of the supported codecs (which are the same for each format). The driving force behind hi-def is the experience, and that experience to the consumer will not differ between these formats. It's true that Blu-Ray will have more available space for content encoded at the same rate, which means that your hi-def copy of Lost - Seasons 1-6 may have 1 more disc in the set for instance, but that cost may not be worth it in the end. Personally, I think HDDVD is the practical choice in the matter, and I'm no hater of technology. Just as Beta does, Blu-Ray will have its place as a professional storage format, but for the consumer level market (even gadget geeks like me who love HDTV), HDDVD is a very logical choice. Go Toshiba! http://www.toshibahddvd.com |
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New member Username: DrivesmemadPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 |
The Corporate Tug-of-War got intensified with Microsoft supporting HD-DVD. If you are still making up your minds on the technologies, I suggest you go through the reviews that keep popping up everyday. Try iNods.com (review search engine) to keep up with the content. Here is a list of companies in the tug-of-war: HD-DVD Microsoft Intel HP Universal Warner Brothers Paramount NEC SANYO Blu-Ray Sony Phillips Samsung Panasonic All major Studios including Tri-Star Columbia |
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New member Username: Azz156Australia Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
To all the people thinking hd-dvd is out of the next-gen console wars your wrong, Microsoft plans to put hd dvd drives in all future xbox 360's, so sony doesn’t have a edge there ether. Hd-dvd will win simply because it backwards compatibility with dvds & is far cheaper then blu-ray (first hd-dvd player goes for $499 usd while blu-ray goes for $2000 usd, beta - blu-ray, vhs - hd-dvd). The only place I can see blue-ray taking off is in backing up office documents because of its larger capacity |
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New member Username: Hotstuff619San diego, California Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
if toshiba & its alliance members find a way of reducing the overall price of a stand alone hd dvd player by THIS HOLIDAY SEASON to about $300(or less), this media war could very well be in their favor...the ps3 delay in my personal opinion is a crucial blow to sony and its blu ray format technology...... |
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New member Username: Hotstuff619San diego, California Usa Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 |
even though my personal interest is geared towards blu ray, i have this weird feeling that hd dvd will win in the long run...history tends to repeat itself and this generation is no different than the vhs/betamax era... to the AVERAGE CONSUMER worldwide, superior products does not always constitute as the clear choice when it comes to electronics...for example, the original xbox was in many ways more advanced than the ps2...yet for some reason, sony ended up winning the console war by a very large margin...the point is simply this...while i sincerely hope that blu ray does succeed, hd dvd will end up becoming the future storage medium because of these simple facts...#1)cheaper #2)name brand recognition "HD DVD" #3)hollywood support-LOTR trilogy alone is very powerful in the entertainment idustry... |
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New member Username: Xk2600Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
Fact is most people won't buy until they can afford it and at that point both will be out. The consumer has no choice in this at all. The only people that will affect it are those producing movies the films. What hardware they buy will reflect what the end user will buy which will reflect what format player they purchase. End of story. The point is DVD works fine and HD-DVD provides little to no benefit for the average user other than they could buy a TIVO/DVR with a recorder built into it to backup thier TIVO/DVR Recordings to. You can always just buy a DVD Player with 1080i upscale conversion and get nearly the same quality as they would get by duplicating already produced movies onto HD-DVD. It all goes back to granulation (I believe someone had mentioned this earlier): If the video is grainy from the get go you just get a sharper grain in your video. As far as what will be available on HD-DVD or BluRay, The only thing I'd spend my money on would be sporting events, maybe CSI (and other HD Broadcast television programs), and maybe some discovery channel/imax videos. Where this market would be benefitial is in data backup or on the computer/business end. I think everyone is getting way ahead of the horse here. Until the general public needs HD-DVD/BluRay and it provides something significantly better than DVD quality with upscale conversion, they won't purchase it. I'm not sure who will win in this battle, but I do believe that HD-DVD/BluRay are fighting over something the consumer doesn't care about. |
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New member Username: MikeybabePost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 |
The only thing that concerns me about the better blu-ray discs is the very thin coating used to protect the media stored on the disc. as most of you know people don't look after there media and they always wipe the disc in there top before putting it into there media player. Scratches more like a knacked dics. |
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New member Username: Pandy2Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 |
I think the whole HD DVD vs blue-ray discussions is silly. It makes as much sense as discussing if 2 Gb or 4 Gb Compact Flash cards are better. Imagine somebody saying "I like the 2 Gb cards better because I rarely even use 900 Mb of the capacity anyway". I do not think anybody will need 100 Gb for movies in the near future. The storage capacity will be for data and archiving. I like doing video editing and family movies and I would just love to archive all our videocam tapes on digital disks - the bigger the better !! And people who are not interested in video editing will need the storage capacity for other purposes, digital pictures, music, etc. So the question is, what is the best technology for archiving: disks with a capacity of 9 Gb (DVD), 15/32 Gb (HD DVD) or 50/100 Gb (blue-ray) ?? The only real customer friendly solution is to have players which support both HD DVD and blu-ray and guess what kind of disks people will eventually end up using, regardless of the movie format ... |
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New member Username: BoneyardPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 |
Blu-ray backwards compatability question Will a regular DVD be able to play in a Blu-ray player? |
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Bronze Member Username: AscleanasitgetsKingston Canada Post Number: 28 Registered: Sep-05 |
Pandy - Just so you know Toshiba has disks that are dual sided and dual layer supporting over 60 gigs. and it took blu-ray 4 layers to get 100 Tony - yes they have 2 completely different lasers in them for that purpose Mike - I don't have a definite answer for you but I heard that you could scrub a blu-ray disc with steel wool and it would still work I'm going to a training seminar in toronto tommorow when i get back i will have an answer for you about that. Chris - I just got back from a Toshiba Training session the upconversion that the Toshiba HD DVD player does is much better then most standard upconverting DVD players I saw it with my own 2 eyes on 2 side by side 72" DLPs same setup and everything same cables just 2 different dvd players on factory settings now I realize that thats a big screen but you have to realize the people that they are marketing are 18-35 males with above average income many of them will have a 60"+ TV or projector and the other ones will buy it because they heard about it or there friend got it. I sell this stuff believe me ppl will buy it. too bad the toshiba wasn't good for audio it matches my HK nicely |
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New member Username: SheroPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
for me will win that one who will have better time waranty or how its says,becouse when i will burn mine works on this medium and it will destroy itself something in two years i will be very angry of this and thats what i want to ask...for how lonng i can archive datas on this upcoming optical discs? |
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New member Username: Tonysm_75Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
I created a site that analyzes the popularity of HD DVD vs. Blu-ray discs on Amazon.com. It shows several interesting graphs over time. Check it out here: www.thedvdwars.com |
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New member Username: HirorrPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
I been watching the debate between what format will win seemes like the war between dvd-audio and sacd neither format has claimed victor for the fact the no oneside has a grater market share then the other because most people bought universal players. and what gets me is that the claim the you can severly scratch bluray and it will still read. is the same comment made for the cd. but we all know that once a cd is scratched to a point they are trash. both bluray and hd-dvd have there potental. I thought the reason thatthe to dvd forum was made was to help the comsumer.i own a toshiba ax1 hd-dvd displays at 1280x720p and is not upconvered like my samsumg hd-950 dvd player, if you compare same title side buy side you will see a stunning differance. both formats should be viable to the market do you remember mini disc? well i bought that thinking hey a sony technology can go wrong. but i did. so in the end the comsumers will pick the winner and be you own judge of each product do let marketing hype pull you in. |
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New member Username: SuperluminalPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
I've been following the Bluray v hd-dvd a thing a while and changed horses. I thought the Bluray specs would win the day but now I'm thinking hd-dvd. Sony has long history of over-hyping and under-performing and appears at it again. Sony already sports a large stable of failed formats and seems hellbent on repeating history. The PS3 delay is big clue that the format has technical and/or hardware pricing problems. The presumed PS3/Bluray advantage is evaporating away as MS has annouced an hd-dvd add-on for Xbox360 and I suspect by the time PS3 lands the Xbox360 will have a built-in hd-dvd drive. Frankly the PS2's cheap drive made for a pretty crappy DVD player and if Bluray drives are as expensive as hinted at I don't think the PS3 will fair much better. The hd-dvd media is inferior but it can be produced by existing plants which means lower costs and a vastly larger capacity to produce discs and, I think, the availability of movies will ultimately be the decider. Hd-dvd got to market first, has lower licensing fees and has the ability to fill it's catalogue with titles faster. No doubt Sony will try to sabotage hd-dvd by using it's studios to withhold hd-dvd support but that strategy can only work so long and hd-dvd has enough studios onside with strong back-catalogues and can keep the titles flowing. The extra storage of Bluray is really the only clear advantage and I don't think its big enough to be a hd-dvd killer. It's known that neither format has a picture or sound quality avantage and do people really care that much about the extras being on the same disc or in HD? Regardless of storage capacity, the format that wins in the loungeroom will become the accepted storage format for computing. Computer DVD storage options arrived on the back of its success as a consumer media format and I don't think the market has changed enough for it to be any different this time. |
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New member Username: ChinedumIkeja, Lagos Nigeria Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
From what I hear it seems to me that the HD-DVD's major competitibe advantage is just its price. However I dont think that comparing the HD-DVD to the VHS is fair. The VHS had more than just a good price to offer, it also had more storage space! So i doubt that the HD-DVD's cheaper price would be enough to make it the winner. Besides who says that SONY cannot at some point reduce the price of the BLURAY. |
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New member Username: EdrxparkPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
Just because a technology is superior does not mean it is going to win. Honestly, Sony has eaten crow countless times with their "superior" formats. Betamax is still being used by photojournalists because of it's superior video quality, but everyone knows who won that format war. Guys, remember Minidisc?...it was going to be the next big thing to inferior audio CDs. Also, Sony is one of the worst companies to "play along" with industry standards, as seen with their proprietary "Memory Sticks." While the entire industry was making SD cards the standard, Sony decided to f everyone over with their own proprietary formats. I resent this fact about Sony, who acts like an immature school boy who takes their toys home when no one wants to play by their rules. Bluray may no doubt be the superior technology, but honestly, how many people who have posted here are ready to shell out $1000 for their superior BluRay player while this format war ensues (better to spend $500 on an HDDVD player and be wrong than $1000 no?) and in the mean time enjoy a wider range of titles and HD quality. Also, suprise suprise you gaming geeks, the majority of the public aren't die hard video game addicts that will spend $600 for a PS3 and not all gamers are going to buy the PS3, some will buy the Wii or 360 or stick to their "superior" PCs to play games. Further more, not all gamers like to use their game consoles for DVDs (adds wear and tear to an expensive system). While we're on the topic of gaming, I'd like to remind you of another superior console that bombed in the early 90's called NEOGEO. Superior in every way, but everyone questioned it's $900 price tag. With that being said, screw superiority!, in the end it's not about what is superior, but about what everyone actually ends up buying. |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
edward park ^^^^ actually you are quite wrong.. there ARE plenty of GAMEING GEEKS! check your data man.. the gaming industry for money long surpased the movie industry.. never underestimate the entire computer industry and the ps3 .. they are huge parts in this war.. as far im concerned.. when im storing data.. i want as much of it all in one place as i can.. if that means i have 50 less disks in my drawer im a happy computer camper.. if i don thave to search through an extra 50 disks.. im happy too.. if video games get to put more detail and more maps and more data in their games.. im a happy geek video gamer too! i am all about superiority .. not cheapest and quickest.. if thats what i wanted i would have married a prostitute.. in my opinion.. hd is marketing to the mentally conditioned "instant-quick-fix" of the population who are fine with medeocrity and dont mind changing all their favorite movies into a nother format for a marginal increase in ability.. blu - ray is marketing to the elite.. the people who spend an extra 2- 300 bux on a video card to get an extra resolution notch under their belt.. blu ray all the way.. |
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New member Username: GeozPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
^^ Well then, are you suggestion we all bought into Prostitution in the VHS Betamax era? No, we bought into the inferior and the most effective way to produce what we need. You claim that the gaming market surpasses the Film, but what you forget clearly is that we want to play games, and we don’t care on what format we play them on, as long as they do the job, and we are not burnt doing so by the price, I want to backup my media and data on the next generation media, and I am a heavy PC user, and I enjoy my consoles, I would rather have the CHOICE to use Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, not to have a format that possibly will not survive forced onto me, through the PS3, I want to have the guarantee that the format I am using will not explode in price as it becomes cumbersome and difficult to manufacture, and less frequent in the FILM INDUSTRY, because whether you like it or not, sir, games can only catapult a system so far, you need to have other incentives then games in order to part with $600/£425, because the reason we are being sold this line from Sony is that THIS is the future in everything, from game to film. Not one of the other, simple economics states that if the Blu-Ray is met with lukewarm participation, then it will be the PS3 users that will get burnt, not the Xbox 360/Wii owners, as their system gives users (at least the 360) upgrade, so if HD-DVD does flounder, I know that the basic principles that I bought the system on won’t be effected, and my games and media will not fluctuate in performance, or in price. |
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New member Username: R_p_doyleNew York, NY United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
In addition to the ease of manufacture of HD-DVDs hasn't it occured to anyone that the name “BluRay” itself was a bad decision? It alludes to the frequency of the laser used to read the disc, but to the average, non-techie consumer it doesn’t tell you anything about what the product is. Also, people are already very familiar with the acronyms “HD” and “DVD”. Unfortunately, I think it’s going to be no contest for HD-DVD, even if it’s inferior technology. |
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New member Username: RobspitPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
There's one big difference between the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD format war and the VHS/Beta one. There was enough easily recognizable differences (convenience, cost) between VHS and Beta and earlier video recording technologies (ie. Laser Disc) that the early adopters included many non-technical consumers. Since the new disc formats are more of a storage capacity upgrade to a familar existing format, I believe the demographics of the early adopters will include a higher percentage of more technically-savvy consumers, while less technical consumers will be slower to move from the lower-capacity format ("I already have a DVD player; why do I need another"). In that case, the Blu-Ray name might be an advantage ("I have a DVD player, and I don't see why I'd need an "HD" DVD, but I hear these new Blu-Ray things are even better than DVD." - and if I was doing the ads for Blu-Ray I would simply try to get across that simple message: "Better than DVD"). So I'd have to vote for the Blu-Ray format winning out over the HD-DVD format in the long run. |
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New member Username: FlashguyPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 |
This site has great articles, videos and reviews about hd dvd and blu ray...also has up to date release titles! http://www.hd-dvd-report.com |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 |
edward.. yes i am implying that the general public was seduced by the inferior product or prostitution. i think there are two debates here.. 1. who will win 2. and which is better 1. i do think hd dvd has a very good shot at winning as when you leave things to public you get rubbish.. look at the people in politics in any country.. 2. blu ray is better.. people can have a better experience with it.. you say people just wnat to play games.. well imagine this.. imagine if sony actually marketing their products as being superior.. get (x) game.. then on the blu ray disc.. it says.. get (300 megs of extra maps and multiplayer add ons ) on the blu ray version.. maybe it costs a little more.. but you are getting a better product.. i wonder who would win then.. anyways.. cheap = rubbish.. hd dvd is cheap.. nuff said. |
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New member Username: GeozPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 |
You clearly do not understand the technicalities of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD situation. You claim that Blu-Ray is better, because a) because “people can get a better experience” – how exactly? Good explanation there. As far as I am aware they both use the same blue light frequency. But one costs half as much as the other, in terms of the player, and the disc, and both are reported to generate EQUAL QUALITY on movies. The only possible reason you are backing Blu-Ray is your support for Sony Playstation, and I’m telling you son, 300 megs is not enough to pay double for a Playstation 3, and the Anime games that come with it. I don’t want a potentially obsolete format forced onto me, I just want something that I can rely on, and can’t you see that in the end that we, the consumers, will lose? Cheap = Rubbish? Are you stupid? Unless your entire video collection is on Betamax, you are in no position to talk, because VHS was and is cheap. Secondly, Japanese cars are cheap, compared to the rest, yet they are causing GM with all their problems to go bust. Remember the PSP? How it was going to “trounce” the “inferior” DS? Yeah right! The DS is outstripping the PSP by millions on every single continent, but it’s cheap, how do you like that? You see, things are not black and white, for some reason you don’t seem to understand that, “just imagine this:” That despite an “extra 300meg” of trailers and extras and rubbish are put on a Blu-Ray disc, (which would cause the game to be delayed and other consoles would be getting it first) that Blu-Ray flops because it is just too damned expensive to manufacture, buggy (hey the were going to ship in 15 days, but manufacturing problems stopped them) and lack of sales because the wonderful “PS3” doesn’t seem to cost effective to part with $600+ then what? I’ll tell you, Blu-Ray will go bust, it’ll go bust and you’ll be left with an increasing pricetag on everything Blu-ray as demand falls. At least Micro$haft were smart enough not to make the X360 compulsory with a HD-DVD, because if that fails, then the same thing would happen. This is far from “’nuff said” kid, I think a couple of years older, or some more research on your behalf would easily have made you to realise that this is not a simple cut and dry format battle, if everything was “cheap = rubbish” people would be buying gold backed DVDs and CDs, Betamax would be the video standard, and everyone would be getting a PS3. But we don’t. Aluminium Discs, a Honda, and a home built PC will do fine thank you. |
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New member Username: Pandy2Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 |
Anybody know if Pioneer is the only company bringing out a Blu-Ray recorder for PC's shortly ? I have a lot of external hard drives sized between 160 Gb and 250 Gb and it would be nice to backup the data on Blu-Ray disks. The more the capacity the better and I am not really that interested in the movie use of Blu-Ray. Pure and raw data only. |
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New member Username: Pandy2Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-06 |
I will respond to my own question. Guess I should have done some research first: You can find an excellent list of ATAPI Blu-ray drives at http://www.blurayseller.com/bddrives.html Make sure you get one that supports double-layer. Benq seems to have the lowest price at the moment ($799) and it burns DVD and CD as well. |
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New member Username: Jon_tPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 |
We had a big pool party the other day, and one of my friends had taken a bunch of pictures with his Sony Mavica. One of the girls at the party requested a copy of the photos.... SD card? Mini-SD? Micro-SD? CD? DVD? Floppy?.... No, unfortunately there was no way to download the Sony proprietary memory stick..LOL I've said it before, and I'll say it again, NOBODY in their right mind wants Sony and their proprietary formats controlling the scene. Sony equals inflated prices and LESS compatibility/funtionality. Blu-Ray may have a little more capacity, but there are many other factors.... Microsoft support being the most important, and price a close second. I would bet we will quickly see HD-DVD adopted by the PC user, in which case Blu-Ray is toast.... Or should I say a Betamax for the 21st century! |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 4 Registered: Jun-06 |
dear G, "You claim that Blu-Ray is better, because a) because “people can get a better experience” – how exactly? Good explanation there. As far as I am aware they both use the same blue light frequency. But one costs half as much as the other, in terms of the player, and the disc, and both are reported to generate EQUAL QUALITY on movies." 1. they are not half the price.. 2. the extra cost that has come into play is from the retooling of the manufaturing.. this is GOOD! why?? cause they can then use those same new manufacuring plants to make a better version eventually of the blu ray disc.. hd -dvd is a baby step..and a complete waste of time if you are thinking of rebuying all of your fav movies in it again.. blu ray has the foundation of a actual step it may not seem to be that much better than the hd-dvd but think bout it in 5 years from now when they are tweaking out the best performance in technology wise on teh blu ray versus the mild increase of hd-dvd.. blu ray has way more potential.. how is it a better experience? 1)for data archiving.. less dvds.. 2) video games have more space to put more maps and level detail.. turst me.. if you give a good gaming company a extra few gigs.. they will love you for it.. and they will use it! 3) more room for extras = better experience.. "The only possible reason you are backing Blu-Ray is your support for Sony Playstation, and I’m telling you son, 300 megs is not enough to pay double for a Playstation 3," i dont play console games.. i couldnt care about playstation.. even if it is far superior to teh xbox.. and it isnt 300 megs differnce man.. read above man.. get a clue.. we are talking 20 - 50 GIGS DIFFERENCE MAN!!!!! that is a huge DEAL! do the math.. even withonly 10 dvds you have lost over 200 gigs.. 1?!?!??! thats a lot of freakin data.. "want a potentially obsolete format forced onto me, I just want something that I can rely on, and can’t you see that in the end that we, the consumers, will lose?" too late.. its probably coming.. and its hd-dvd.. its like vhs going to beta max.. before they go to dvd.. its a useless step that can be skipped.. "Cheap = Rubbish? Are you stupid? Unless your entire video collection is on Betamax, you are in no position to talk, because VHS was and is cheap." wrong moron, vhs was the only thing to pick from back in the day.. we had no choice.. and i hated it.. my entire video collection is dvd.. i never bought anything vhs as i knew teh format was obsolete.. "Secondly, Japanese cars are cheap, compared to the rest, yet they are causing GM with all their problems to go bust." no.. my friend you dont understand world economics.. gm is going bust cause they have been consistantly making wrong decisions.. ie taking the buy out from teh oil companies and the goverment and killing their electric cars.. by lettting the japanese and chinese steal their technology with 1000's of spies.. and then there is teh global market.. cheaper workers, etc.. it has nothing to do with cheap cars!!! acura and honda are way more expensive!! why? cause public perception. .not reality.. where have you been hiding man?!?! some dark cave i presume.. "Remember the PSP? How it was going to “trounce” the “inferior” DS? Yeah right! The DS is outstripping the PSP by millions on every single continent, but it’s cheap, how do you like that? You see, things are not black and white, for some reason you don’t seem to understand that," you are bringing up arguments that are simply not valid.. the reason one console will succeed over anohter one is not as simple of price.. it can be available games.. marketing .. a whole host of things.. that may or may not have anythign to do with price.. "That despite an “extra 300meg” of trailers and extras and rubbish are put on a Blu-Ray disc, (which would cause the game to be delayed and other consoles would be getting it first) that Blu-Ray flops because it is just too damned expensive to manufacture, buggy (hey the were going to ship in 15 days, but manufacturing problems stopped them) and lack of sales because the wonderful “PS3” doesn’t seem to cost effective to part with $600+ then what? I’ll tell you, Blu-Ray will go bust, it’ll go bust and you’ll be left with an increasing pricetag on everything Blu-ray as demand falls. At least Micro$haft were smart enough not to make the X360 compulsory with a HD-DVD, because if that fails, then the same thing would happen. " again.. its not 300 megs man.. its like 20 GIGS.. i dont even feel like responding to this point as it has not basis.. you have no idea what gameing companies can do with 20 gigs more!!! "This is far from “’nuff said” kid, I think a couple of years older, or some more research on your behalf would easily have made you to realise that this is not a simple cut and dry format battle, if everything was “cheap = rubbish” people would be buying gold backed DVDs and CDs, Betamax would be the video standard, and everyone would be getting a PS3. But we don’t. Aluminium Discs, a Honda, and a home built PC will do fine thank you." it is not as simple as a format war.. its about really improving a product or just doing good enough.. and as far as im concerned.. hd-dvd is "good enough" but far from great.. and yes cheap stuff does sell... but yoru point is lost in the fact that you havent picked a point that you are debating.. i have alreayd stated in my previous post .. 1. the cheaper one will probably win cause people are stupid .. and i cited the goverment "most" people have voted for as an example of the majority of people consistantly making teh wrong decision.. this is nothing new.. so it dosent surprise me if hd-dvd wins.. and 2. that blu ray is a better product.. so yoru point tha tpeople still buy cheap garbage is a null point.. as it doesnt address either of my points.. please come back with a more structured response.. and address my points clearly with counter pointes.. |
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New member Username: EdrxparkPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 |
Why do you guys insist that extra storage space is going to be this life changing experience for you? I have yet to see most PC games available in DVD format, and doesn't that hold almost 10x that of a regular CD-ROM? The PC gaming industry rarely uses DVD format and manufactures them in very limited release only. So you think that gaming manufacturers are going to suddenly jump on board with BluRay b/c of it's large storage capacity when they haven't even made a full jump to DVD? C'mon, there's fantasy and reality. Console gaming you say? The gaming industry will adapt to whatever technology is available to them for each console. You can bet that even if BluRay wins out that Microsoft will not use it in their next generation gaming system. Video games will not be stripped of content, but most likely animation sequences will be highly compressed...we're talking relative here since most HDTVs are maxed out to 1080i right now, so it would be difficult to conceptualize what kind of spectacular video sequences are to be seen as well as the amount of memory it will require to store it. What ever technology is chosen, future technology will adjust to whoever is crowned winner. There are compression technologies that have not even been developed that will help with storing information on 30 gigs. The only advantage BluRay has is a proported larger bandwidth which has yet to be substantiated w/ Sony being notorious for overhyping specs. |
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New member Username: Nicole32Alameda, California United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 |
Here is the end of the debate! Buy an Xbox 360 and a PS-3 and watch movies in both standards. tada !!!!!!!! |
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New member Username: JewstenPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 |
i really wanted blu-ray to come ahead in this little struggle over "power" because of the number of manufacturers backing it (even though i'm not a fan of sony) and the huge size distance (15/30 compared to 25/50),but so far i've been reading reviews of video quality leaning over to hd-dvd side. isn't what really matters here? cheap≠rubbish...that's stupid. |
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New member Username: ChiefempirePost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 |
At the moment I have two feet squarely in the HDDVD camp. I think blu-ray is unproven and still has a long way to go to deliver a far superior experience to hddvd. Technical issues and cost may well put it too far behind. I also need to clear up some comments about games and hddvd/blue-ray. I have worked in the games industry for 10 years and this industry will have NO bearing on who wins. Games publishers will develop games for PS2 AND 360 - this makes the most financal sense. As for an extra 20 gigs of space - most games don't use a dvd-5 let alone 50 gigs!!! What do you expect developers to put on these discs? hours of hd trailers?? Games are VERY expensive to make and you expect publishers to increase their costs by up to a half just putting in more levels - on one platform - to fill a disc? It is never going to happen. Games don't need that much storage. PC's put everything onto the hard drive, consoles load in as much as the internal workings can allow. Most data is also compressed on the disk - this allows for faster load times and decompressing the data in memory is faster than loading. Games do not matter in this war, forget about them. PSP is losing because it is too expensive and doesn't really do anything. The games aren't that good, so you are left with an expensive mp3 player than doesn't fit in your pocket. Great. The UMDs are rubbish and tiny - even Sony pictures is slowing down it's movie output on them as they are not selling. If ever there was a format-war loser it's PSP - Nintendo DS wins by a knockout in round 2. Ding Ding |
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New member Username: Tonysm_75Post Number: 2 Registered: May-06 |
On Amazon.com at least, HDDVD seems to be holding on to its lead over Blu-rays: I wonder what people have been seeing (for DVDs, not games) in brick-and-mortar stores. Can someone go into a Blockbuster and rent a movie in one of these formats? I did notice that Netflix now has these two formats available, but the selection, as one might expect, is pretty poor. |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 |
Heres what I think about this whole war I'm going to HD-DVD one reason is you all say that blu ray is bigger ya maybe but only by 5 gigs since hd is going with a 3 layer disc which holds 45 gigs of info, 2. is all HD-DVDs are in 1080p format for their 1080P player that will be coming out and most of the blu ray movies are only in 1080i, 3. is they are a lot more inexpensive, 4. the layers are protected as to where blu ray 1 small scratch can ruin the disc and hd-dvd also has a lot more support studio wise as to where blu ray only has lions gate and sony pictures, sony is being to greedy on their front because they are charging movie studios to use the blu ray platform since sony holds the patent for blu ray discs. |
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New member Username: ArtrerminatorPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 |
Blue Ray is the best! Given the facts it is better to upgrade to Blue Ray because it has more storage capacity, and therefore it can provide higher picture quality |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 2 Registered: Aug-06 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD explains hd dvd's new capacity breaking 90 GIGS |
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New member Username: Jon_tPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-06 |
As predicted, Sony is making fools of the people that buy their overpriced junk products again. It cracks me up how many times they can get consumers to fall for their tricks. "The latest fiasco is the recent revelation that Sony's Blu-ray player for the PC will not have the ability to play HD movies on the PC. This is to protect the interests of the movie makers somehow." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209003,00.html |
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New member Username: Jon_tPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-06 |
For those who claim there is no difference in picture or sound quality between the formats, it looks like Blu Ray is off to the format races with two left feet...LOL According to a number of reviews so far the HD DVD format has delivered far superior picture and sound on virtually every title released. http://www.dvdtown.com/article/warnerbros.hddiscsblu-rayvs.hd/3773/ |
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New member Username: Freddy123Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-06 |
Amazon.com the top 10 HD-DVD titles average out to be ranked 584th in movie sales. BD's top 10 average out to 5,662. HD-DVD has 5 titles in the top 150, BD's best day to my knowledge was the top 3,600 for 1 title. They have 5 titles in the top 5,300 currently. Five best titles for HD-DVD: top 150, BD: top 5,300. Software sales are completely blowing away BD. Software attachment numbers are crazy high for HD-DVD. September and October numbers are going to be much WORSE for BD. It is 11 to 1 right now, but September numbers could be as high as 15 to 1, and Octobers looks to be devestatingly absurd likely 20 to 1. As for the PS3 it selling (Pre-release) right now on play for a massive £549.99 OUCH!! You can buy the xbox 360 and the new Nintendo (which will be out before PS3) for that. I think Blueray is going to struggle big time and the PS3 is not going to be as popular as previous playstations either. Just far too expensive. Not many people I know have that kind of disposable income right now. Mortgage and rising council tax bills are crippling lots of people. Technology has been so cheap in recent years. You can buy a brand new dvd player for £30. Sony have it wrong this time |
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New member Username: Freddy123Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-06 |
Sony is banking that PS3 sales will push software sales of BD up in December over HD-DVD and show that Studios like Disney, Fox, and Lionsgate picked the right brand. Lionsgate however is rumored to be about to make an announcement that they will have HD-DVD titles available. It's just too hard for them to pass up the money they could be making in HD-DVD. If Sony doesn't win December (and I'm now thinking they have little to no chance) then Disney is very likely to spurn Sony and go with both formats. LG is going to announce a Dual-Format (universal) player at CES. Their agreement with Sony won't allow them to release a HD-DVD only player. Microsoft are releasing the HD-DVD drive for the xbox 360 from £130 http://avzombie.com/blog/2006/09/27/xbox-360-hd-dvd-drive-in-low-price-shock/ |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-06 |
admitedly im a m very disappointed about the announcement of blu ray and their computer blu -ray device.. ohwell.. i really only wanted it for its ability to back up all my files.. i never watch em on their anyways.. got a 150 inch for that.. so blu ray for storage.. and hd for watching movies.. i wonder if sony will be able to keep selling those units before someone hacks it.. or the market forces them to be less stupid.. |
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Bronze Member Username: DobyblueSt. Catharines, Ontario Canada Post Number: 77 Registered: Oct-05 |
TDK have successfully tested and manufactured a 200GB Blu Ray disc. |
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Bronze Member Username: DobyblueSt. Catharines, Ontario Canada Post Number: 78 Registered: Oct-05 |
As for Microsoft's HD-DVD drive, it has no HDMI. It's rubbish at best for tvs that only accept 1080p through their HDMI slots, which Microsoft suggests is not proven technology and not widespread, but go into your local A/V store and find a 1080p tv that doesn't have one. Sheesh. |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 3 Registered: Aug-06 |
No they haven't they have tested a 1 gig disc and no it hasn't been manufatured yet. |
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Moderator Username: AdminPost Number: 1633 Registered: Dec-03 |
Related article on eCoustics: Are HD-DVD and Blu-ray Both Doomed? |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 4 Registered: Aug-06 |
the problem is, is that is just one oppinion, Hd-DVD and blu ray have already caught on and on a 1080i tv you can easily tell a difference in sound and picture quality over dvd9 as dvd9 is only 480p at the max and HD DVD is 1080p that is a huge difference in picture quality at 600 lines of resolution more. |
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Bronze Member Username: DobyblueSt. Catharines, Ontario Canada Post Number: 79 Registered: Oct-05 |
1 gig? Maybe you mean 100GB, but TDK have successfully produced the 200GB prototype. It's still a way off from being in production, but it shows that the 100GB is very close to release to the general public. http://www.tdk.com/procommon/press/article.asp?site=pro&recid=127 |
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New member Username: Real3rdeyePost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
HD-DVD will win hands down. It's copy right protection is inferior to that of Blu ray which will be the down fall to Blu ray since all the thieves in the world will want an easier way to rip/burn and copy media illegally. |
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New member Username: Anox3Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
Consumer and tech market equals 2 totally different things. Whats it being discussed on here I fell will have very little to do with the winner of Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD. Your normal consumer is going to look at 2 things. Availability and price. Your ordinary consumer is just not that tech savy. HD-DVD players are widely available. I saw one at Sears in Daytona Beach in October on sale for $399. Let see Blu-Ray do that before the holidays. HD-DVD is even available for $199 if you have a Xbox 360. My guess in the end Sony will win for computer storage and HD-DVD for movies. If I am not mistaken it is the blu ray diode problem for the shortage of ps3's at launch is it not? How in real possibility can Sony and their partners deliver Blu-Ray dvd players for a reasonable cost even before Christmas 2007? Thats a long time to give HD-DVD a head start. |
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New member Username: QualitydaydreamPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
In Japan there are already 2160P TV's in the works. Some say 1280P is the max the human eye can handle. 1080P is old news there, im talking over 2 years old. Japan also like the USA lacks 1080P contnet on Cable. they call the trends before they happen, i just wish we could have 100mbps dwn and 20mbps up for 79.00 a month like they do. |
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New member Username: CsaywordPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
One thing for sure. The word HD DVD is a more marketable term than Blue Ray. The average consumer don't know squat about size and format. The only thing the consumer care for is quality. And if you already have an HDTV, it will make more sense to go after an HD DVD (especially if your not a tech guru). How about I use the analogy of a food super market. If you came to a road with two stores, one Food Town, and the other Kings Supermarkets; yet didn't know a thing about either one, which one would you shop at?? Food Town makes more sense. Because it's in regards to what you are seeking; FOOD!! For this reason alone, I believe the word HD DVD is a more marketable word. It's only because of the Sony Playstation 3 that Blue-ray was able to make a strong entry into the market. But in the long run, I see more people cutting thru the technical bull, and reaching for HD DVD. I tell you this. I'm familiar with the two formats, and its still a little confusing. Blockbuster Video has two sections. One for Blue-ray, and one section for HD DVD. |
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New member Username: ForzeNorthwest England Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
Bottom line is... Anything sony make/push/sell, well just walk away from, The most hated company along with m/soft that only care about profit margins & have the worst records in flaws/faults/bugs etc as well as poor customer aftersales care in fact any thought of the customer by sony would completely shock me! Blu-Ray is about copy protection & NOTHING more 50gig vs 30gig I MEAN WHO CARES REALLY!? I mean were currently on 4.7gig dvds so to jump to 30gig IS THAT NOT ENOUGH!? Do you really need a single disk with more than 30gig...Honestly WTF!? What single file have you got that you need 50gig on a single disk? If your answer is to back up...then wtf!? USB2 external harddrives upto terabyte sizes are 100 times faster than dragging/copying onto & from disks, whether there HD DVD or Blu-Ray!!! |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-06 |
Steve, i dont konw where you get that "anything sony we walk away from.." people have been mugged.. beaten for ps3.. every ps system has been a fantastic success.. ?!?!? blu ray is far superior to hd dvd.. they have already successfully tested a 100 gig blu ray.. your thinking too small man.. 4.3 gigs has barely.. and i mean BARELy held us to now.. look out 5 years from now.. 100 gigs will probably not be enough then either.. i find 4.3 gigs.. far too small.. i have hundreds of the disks to back up all my data.. i will lovingly appreciate the ability to back up myhard drive once a month to a blu ray.. and not worry about it.. ill re back up all my dvds in to like 15 disks .. aaah i can hardly wait.. (supposed to be like a month) i will love seeing studios and video games not limited at all by any constraints of data.. full wide screen high res extra stuff, trailers, .. extra levels, more goodies,, i will love seeing the entire star trek / seinfield, terminator series on one dvd instead of 10..etc.. in fact you say sony is all about protecting copy right.. really then.. who instituted the ridiculous 4.3 gig while all the commercial dvds have dual layer 8 gig..??? that was everyone ! all teh companies want to protect them from every pirating idiot that doestn know hes shooting himself in the foot for not paying people money.. on that note.. for all you pirating idiots.. if you like the movie.. go out and support them! they need money to make another movie.. so if you want to see another one from them.. then atleast rent it.. or better buy it.. further.. to all you movie companies record exec etc.. want a great way to hinder pirating?!?!? jump on board with blu ray.. think about it.. whats teh main medium of pirating.. the internet.. well the internet is limited by what.. speed.. exactly.. so if you release a movie useing like 50 gigs.. of all high quality stuff, people who really likethe movie will be forced to buy it as it will be just too ridiculous to transfer 50 gigs anywhere.. yes there wil always bee people who compress stuff.. but atleast they are for sure getting a inferior experience.. and you have a added incentive for people to buck up and pay the ridiculously cheap price of like 7 - 12 dollars for a movie.. think bout it. ican dowload for a week.. or drop 8 bux and have it the way i was supposed to get it.. ?? thats my 18 cents.. (inflation adjusted) |
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New member Username: NoshiPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
The problems about blu-ray. It's a Sony based format that costs more money to make (due to royalties). It's also supported by fewer movie makers. For those that thought PS3 games are on blu-ray you are mistaken. Sony announced a while back that they DO NOT support any form of games on blu-ray. The drive is strickly for playback of blu-ray, hd-dvd, and dvd mpeg2 video disks. Not for the console. Sony really shot themselves in the foot with this format. It costs more and will have less support. It will end up the same way that cartridge based gaming went. Dead. Consumers like cheap. Less costs is always an appeal to them. |
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New member Username: SlashmanPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
I just thought I'd add that as far as I can see in the console war... Nintendo is winning. There sales are up, every one wants a wii. Wii is the Hot item this year. My grandparents even went and got one and they have never played a game in there life. They love it. So if the PS3 Bombs in the end because the wii is far more fun too play. And it is I'v played the two of them. Even RFOM on PS3. all I have to say is the wii will stay fun longer I sold my PS3 Because it wasnt fun after about 2 Days. Wii was far more fun and EVERY one where I lived wanted a PS3 UNTILL they played wii. So you can hardly use PS3 as a selling point that will turn sales. In the past two Systems when they were on top yes. But there losing this time and will not have the same following. |
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New member Username: TimjPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
Blu-ray has won High Def. Optical war! It is the only format that is supported in a Customer retail burner by 90 percent of the optical burner manufactures. Additionally, the blu-ray technology is no longer royalty controlled. |
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New member Username: Audio_highMountain View, CA USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-05 |
HD-DVD has won the High Def. Optical war! It is the only format that is in my store.  |
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New member Username: TimjPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 |
Can any one tell me where to buy a HD-DVD burner retail as well as the make and model? |
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New member Username: Gsxr04gtPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
personally i think all the ppl on here talking about capacity are idiots...really who cares? if ur really thinking about backing up all ur dvds in ur collection to like 2 or 3 blurays ur a loser...get a life...the general public that will b purchasing these players arnt going to care unless they r the small sum of computer geeks out there...they r going to care about picture and sound quality on their newly purchased HDTV not how many movies they can store on one disk...honestly ppl r not at all technicallogically literate...they rnt going to know wat u r talking about wen u say 30GB and stuff like that...they r going to want to know wat the final picture is going to look like...wat they r physically going to c on their pretty television...its sad really...ive been trying to search to figure out which format was going to have a better picture (if there even is a better one in that perspective) or sound quality u know stuff like that that normal ppl would care about wen looking to extend their home theatre system but all i find is stupid comparisons on capacity of all things...it seems to me that capacity is the only thing blu-ray has over hd dvd...if picture quality and sound quality is the same and HD DVD is cheaper its kidna obvious which way i would want to go and thats how pretty much everyone is going to think so im going to have to say HD DVD is goign to win this war by far... |
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New member Username: KaixerPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
Here is a poll on Blu Ray vs HD DVD purchase decision, you can cast your own vote at the link below. http://inchorus.com/index.php?page=contribute&project_id=9 |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 7 Registered: Jun-06 |
joseph, capacity = potential = possibility = extras = blu ray just barely good enough = soon to be not enough = compression = less performance results = shortsightness = hd dvd yes from a spec analysis they both seem to be the pixels per inch, but only one has the potential of possibly upping that.. with a future potential of 100 gigs and more, its concievable that sony friendly products could even support a higher pixel resolution with no compression, and no forced change in disc format. hd dvd?? nooot likely.. its not just capacity its also bandwidth.. that little layer that all the manufacturers are whining about is what allows way more data, plus more bandwidth to be read and written, which means a possiblity for a better more bandwidth intensive signal in future which i will translate for you "non geeks" better picture, oooh.. better sound.. awwww.. dis is goood.. and it also means that when your burning a disc it will be burned 10 times faster.. less time to do things means more time to be a not geek and look at pretty pictures on the tv.. |
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New member Username: HddvdownsgayrayWherever HD-DVD owns G..., HD US- the only... Post Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
man charles i sure am glad you dont own sony, or else they would be dead already. there are several reasons why HD-DVD will be way better than the blu-ray. but you guys already mentioned most of them. |
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New member Username: HddvdownsgayrayWherever HD-DVD owns G..., HD US- the only... Post Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 |
but anyways, just buy a nice big screen Plasma TV and you will get the same results. |
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New member Username: GeozPost Number: 3 Registered: Jun-06 |
What? Blu-Ray needs the extra space because it's using the outdated and inefficient mpeg2 codec, I seriously hope to god none of you are thinking more space = better picture? So far the only Blu Ray discs that have been shipping out are the small 25gig discs, compared to the 30gig HD DVD discs. The de facto compression on HD DVD is h.264, which is like 4 or 5 times more efficient than the mpeg2 that Blu ray uses. Think about it, h264 movie in HD = 8mbps, mpeg2 = 40mbps. Blu-ray needs a lot load of space due to the inefficiency of mpeg2, a full length HD movie in h.264 will fit on a normal HD-DVD with the same or BETTER results the a bloated Blu-Ray Disc with Mpeg2, Blu ray’s advantage is that it’s larger with RAW space, great for backing up, if Sony ever releases that 50 gig disc cheaper then it is now, but that’s as far as it goes, it is certainly NOT superior in terms of picture quality unless they start adopting a different codec. Stop eating the megabyte hype. The codec is what matters, and HD DVD has the better one at the moment. |
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New member Username: TimjPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-06 |
Does any build and market a HD-DVD burner to consumers for less than $1000? Or even less than $2000? Or even have a HD-DVD burner that can be purchased by consumers in the US market place? |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 8 Registered: Jun-06 |
the diff between mpeg 2 h.262 and mpg 4 your h.264 is just compression.. hd dvd needs the extra compression becuase they dont have the same bandwitdh or capacity of blu ray. before they are out of the gates they are alreayd barely struggling to keep up with current video and audio standards.. sigh.. one only compresses things when one needs to do so, other wise why would you compress an image.. . the idea is to try and keep it as close to original as possible.. why do you htink all the online sites have jumped all over high compression.. not cuase it makes a better picture necessarily but because its just so much harder to send huge files across and they need everything as tight as possible.. now some times tigher compression will allow more and higher quality to go though on the same pipe.. which in this case still serves blu ray as their pipes and capacity are superior.. you see its NOT just capacity is bandwidth.. that 1/8th of an inch that all teh manufacturing companies are crying their eyes out over allows for a way higher bandwidth as well.. that means more data.. and this means nicer picture and better sound.. apparently the only thing consumers care about.. |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 9 Registered: Jun-06 |
rusty.. by your response it is painfully clear you understand nothing about the difference between blu ray and hd dvd.. a plasma screen will have no effect on how a dvd will look. what advantages have alreayd been mentioned?? what price? so inferior product, low bandwidth, low capacity but its a little bit cheaper? price for performance is way out of wack thats like buying a kia at 10 thousand when you could have bought a bmw for 12 thousand... and yes you are glad i dont run Sony cause if i did it would be the next microsofot and competition is good. |
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New member Username: JeffkfarnhamPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
HD-DVD will win on name alone. Ask my 90 year old grandmother What comes after a DVD she will tell you an HD-DVD. everyone knows HD and everyone knows DVD. Put the two together and that is what the average joe is going to ask for if they are looking for a HD movie. Blue-ray sounds like a fish not a HD format. |
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Silver Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU... Post Number: 123 Registered: Dec-06 |
Yep the average joe probably won't think much about it. |
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New member Username: MunchyPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
Unfortunately for Blu-Ray fans I don't think the format is going to survive. Even though the Blu-Ray is a better overall product, it just wont make sense to consumers. You can get HD-DVD players for about half the price as Blu Ray. If I'm interested in watching HD features, why do I need to spend twice as much for what is essentially the same quality? Also switching to Blu Ray would mean I have to replace all the DVD players in my house. The new HD-DVD's are made with a High Def and Standard version of the film and they can play in both HD or Standard DVD players. Of course the DVD name will make it a much easier choice for consumers as mentioned earlier. |
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New member Username: MunchyPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 |
I forgot to mention the way Sony forced the Blu Rays on anyone who wanted a PS3 was probably a pretty good sign of their desperation with this format. Now the PS3's are getting very little positive mention. |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 10 Registered: Jun-06 |
granted the over all public is not that intelligent, i dont think they are as idiotic as you think, alot of people do research on the web before they buy something.. and if one is going to do some buying in the hundreds you can guarantee they are going to do some research.. either that. or they will ask the highschool grad at future shop/bestbuy/computer store and they will let them know which is better.. do you honestly believe with all teh marketing that people wont figure it out? uh duh.. d.. v... d... uh... honey go back cave.. wait till i find muvee.. come on?? people are going to see a isle at their favorite video store for blu ray.. and a isle for hd dvd.. even the most vacuous people will figure out whats going on..and with the level of intelligence that has figured out how to post on here.. surely these people can figure out there are two formats competing for their attention and that one is superior to the other.. read the faq on there to see eXACTly what the differences between the two formats.. BOTH have BACK WARDS COMPATIBILITY! a nasty rumour going around saying blu ray is not .. and sony didnt force blu ray on anyone with ps3.. thast just what it came with.. sayign that Sony forced that on any one is to say xbox forced dvds on other people?? ps3's success also has nothing to do with dvd formats, but rather on the games for it, and a lot of other factors related to that field. blu ray has more industry support.. way more capacity.. possibly a 200 gig disc!! way more bandwidth, way more potential.. dont take my word.. check out the official site below. http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Section14064/faqs/Index.html |
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New member Username: IcreatedesignPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
>Support America and buy a HD-DVD Player. >Do not be concerned about capacity blue-ray is using this as a selling point, but; reality is we do not need that much capcity today. In the future it is needed but we are not there yet. HD-DVD will take care of that when it is required, and by then consumers will be ready to replace their old HD-DVD players for a newer one at an affordable price. >Many people think you get more out of something if it is larger or holds more info but that is not true. As a Designer I am constently optimizing my work to a lower capacity in order to run faster not to fit it in a certain amount of space. Same applies to this blue-ray vs. HD-DVD battle with the motion picture buisness. >You do not need Maximum amount of space to produce higher quality. I wish blue-ray advocates would just realize that HD-DVD has capacity taken care of when time permits itself.}} |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 5 Registered: Aug-06 |
Then why is the sound and picture quality of Hd-dvd superior to that of blu ray and sony did force blu ray on those who wanted the Playstation 3 for goodness sakes they aren't even using blu ray for games right now sony just put it into their system because if they didn't it would make sont doesnt believe in the the blu ray platform thus skyrocketing the price of the ps3, at least with xbox it's an option, and as for more supporters your right but quantity is no match for quality. |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 6 Registered: Aug-06 |
Then why is the sound and picture quality of Hd-dvd superior to that of blu ray, and sony did force blu ray on those who wanted the Playstation 3 for goodness sakes they aren't even using blu ray for games right now sony just put it into their system, because if they didn't it would make it look like they don't believe in the the blu ray platform thus skyrocketing the price of the ps3, at least with xbox hd-dvd is an option, and as for more supporters your right but quantity is no match for quality. |
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New member Username: MunchyPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-06 |
Charles, you cannot play a Blu-Ray disc in a standard DVD player. You can buy HD-DVD's that will. The Blu-Ray player is backwards compatible, but the discs are not. Also, you can buy an XBOX without HD-DVD, you cannot buy a Playstation 3 without Blu-Ray. |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 |
You can be sure that the price of the PS3 is as high as it is because of the added Blu-Ray drive. Considering that the BRD format isn't being used for games, it's pretty obvious that Sony wants to use the success of the Playstation line to force it's HD technology into homes. PS3 owners will be more likely to use the built-in Blu-Ray capability than purchase an HD-DVD player. As usual, Sony does what is best for their bottom line with no thought of the consumer, which is why I hope Blu-Ray doesn't succeed. HD-DVD is cost effective (for both the manufacturer and the consumer) and is currently displaying better quality video than Blu-Ray. Anyone in Blu-Ray camp care to explain why Blu-Ray is using MPEG2 instead of the more efficient H.264 and VC-1 codecs? Anyone also care to explain why the image quality of the same movie (Training Day for instance) appears to be grainier on Blu-Ray? How about why Sony used a PC to drive HD content to a television (likely encoded with H.264 or VC-1) at more than one electronics show instead of a Blu-Ray disc? I'd sure like to know... |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 11 Registered: Jun-06 |
american made versus import.. as much as id like to support america, I am loyal to those who put out the best product.. its the same as im not going to buy a american made car if i can buy a german engineered car, why? cause im not going to reward someone purly cause of where they are from, they hvae to earn my money.. let me ask you all one question.. what do you think came first.. the capacity and ability to have enhanced options, chapters, extra footage, and other dvd bonuses ? or the extra features.. everyone knows, its the first option. Not untill studios realized they had the extra space, and ability did they start doing flashy menus, and adding all kinds of extras.. same thing for dvd space.. capacity potential is huge! No one know s now.. but who konws what teh studios will do with teh extra space??? now you may argue that hd - dvd will after they squeeze every last drop out of that ancient technology it will be .. just.. e ... nough.. but why?? why go through all the effort? why struggle when you can get by with more than enough. regarding ps3.. i retract all statements.. i dont konw much about console gaming.. though it sounds like a smart move getting a whole bunch of blu ray players in peoples houses.. but thats just business.. i mean hd -dvd sympathizers on here seem to be like.. aww hd -dvd poor puppy.. dont let them die.. theyjust want to have a lil bit of the market share.. .. i mean come on people.. the companies behind hd-dvd are just as ruthless and money hungry as blu ray.. and if they ahd a chance would pull the same move on blu ray.. Chris: while backwards compatibilty may be a great concern to you with i dont konw how many dvd players you have in the house, i thnk the majority of people only have 1 main place where they are watching movies, one main place where they have a huge surround stereo etc..and that would only require buying one unit.. im not overly concerned with backwards compatibility, the past is the past. let it rest in peace.. but thats just my opinion.. im not going out buing a computer that has great backwards compatiblity with DOS.. now sony if they wanted to could easily do what hd-dvd did..and just burn a regular dvd -9 on the other side of teh disk.. its not hard to do.. but i am not intersted in this ability..and whether everyone else will be interested.. i dont konw.. maybe now.. but for how long?? as for video codecs.. It has been announced that Sony is switching over to the Vc1 codec.. but one has to wonder about the future.. high speed internet is taking over all content distribution.. one has to wonder how long people are going to actually buy these things.. when you can download it all through hd tv or movie ordering.. and when one orders these things then the good stuff they will want to keep.. and they will need.. what? you bet.. storage to keep it.. and there is clearly one company with superiour storage ability.. up here in Canada i canbuy a blu ray recorder for 500 bux .. not a bad price.. |
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New member Username: IcreatedesignPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 |
>consider this; the average movie in HD is about 15gigs of capacity and have plenty of menu features included. i do not think the length of movies are going to get any larger than what they always have been.(typically 2 1/2 hrs), why would you need 100 gigs of space on a blue ray disk? HD-DVD is going to release a 60 gig capacity disk for the gig hungry consumers.(plenty of capacity) >Imagine burning a 100 gig disk, how many days do you think it will take to finish burning for somebody? (they make external hard drives at an affordable price for whomever is backing up data which is much faster) >if a movie is around 15 gigs of capcity and you have 85 gigs remaining do you think the studios are going to use the 85 gigs to enhance a features or are they going to start making movies that are 10 hours long? Or are you buying a disk with 80 gigs of unused capacity. |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 2 Registered: Feb-06 |
Charles, believe it or not, the behind the scenes featurettes and other extras for a film are usually produced before the consumer distribution is even planned. Furthermore, Both BRD and HDDVD have a very similar feature set with space being the only real argument. However, there's only so much extra stuff these studios are going to produce for any movie, and both formats provide plenty of room for all of it. Sony is smart in the sense that they will likely draw PS3 gamers to Blu-Ray. However, in doing this, they've jacked up the price on the PS3 so much that they may lose sales to Microsoft and/or Nintendo. $600 is downright absurd for a console gaming system. And don't be so sure about backward compatibility not being an issue. Many of us have DVD collections that we still want to watch, and for those that will be moving to HDDVD when it's affordable, buying HDDVD/DVD hybrid discs now is kinda nice (however, those discs are too expensive to be effective IMO). I'm not sure that Sony CAN create a hybrid disc BTW (don't quote me). BRD may not allow a dual sided disc, but I'm not sure. The one thing I do agree with you on is that neither of these formats may be around for long in the face of broadband video. All it would take is one really good on-demand movie service to put this whole war to bed and everyone would be happy. |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 12 Registered: Jun-06 |
Randy: agreed.. right now. in this exact moment, there will probably be a huge amount of data or potential that is not used, but wouldnt you rather support the product that actually has the potential? hd-dvd is just a nother mediocre upgrade barely worth a format,.. its just another "just good enough" format.. (a perfect example of this is when a popular road has been grid locked for years and finally the city puts in a second lane that basicaly asoon as its put in its just good enough but soon becomes not enough as they should have done a proper job and put 4 lanes and been done with it.. it may be cheaper in the moment to put in one extra lane but in teh long run all teh hassle of getting in crews and the hold ups during construction to come in twice for each lane successivly is a higher price..) maybe hd-dvd is cheaper.. but thats another thing that is right now in this exact moment..but if everyone adapts blu ray.. its prices will lower and eventually the gap will be non existent much like what happened between dvd+r and dvd-r .. and if we are gonig to be stuck with one format, id rather be stuck with one that has 1. higher bandwidth,.. faster seek time, faster load times , faster burning and reading times.. 2. more capacity.. and close to unlimitd potential for studios.. again.. even though at this time no one is using it.. and no one can even imagine what someone would do with it, doesnt mean it cant be or.. wont be used in some great way.. i mean if you talked about all teh extra features we have in dvd now back when we were all into vhs.. one might have argued.. bah.. we dont need those extras.. we just want the movie.. all that extra capacity is just wasted.. and all teh extra features would have to be scrapped.. or crammed into a crummy low bit rate.. imagine this.. you buy a dvd and its got a whole library of trailers and teasers of similar movies you might like.. studios with extra space adn no limitations can do things like this with no thought.. and once they have mastered a disk they jst have to stamp it a million times... a studio could put high res extra footage.. less compression.. or use a future compression or format that say uses more bandwidth and a little more space but has superior picture.. but with hd - dvd just barely being enough.. they wouldnt be able to do that.. atleats for a potential new video codec.. im buying a blu ray cause i can go through a 100 gigs in all of a month.. and will continue to use it regardles of which company becomes successful.. though its increasingly becoming evident that there is not going to be a clear winner .. rather.. a bitter struggle do the death as both groups refuse to accept a winner and back down and try and force eachs respective format on people, maybe studios in the future will stamp one side with blu ray.. and the other with hd-dvd.. who knows.. Thomas: agreed with current level of featurettes hd - dvd im sure can compete quite well specially with 4 layers activated.. regarding featurettes being produced before teh consumer distribution is even planned.. yes and they are planning the featurettes based on what fans would be interested in AAAND how much capacity and what other technology limitations they have.. puting a carte blanc there is exciting as one never knows what they will do.. With sony's ps3.. its not just a gaming system but also a blu ray video player.. now people dont hvae to fork out money for both a player and a game system.. so when you think of it that way it makes sense as when you compare it to say.. wii.. wii is just a video game console and should be priced accordingly as only peoples children are going to use it rather everyone can use teh blu ray playing device.. regarding backwards compatibility.. you can still play all your old dvds on the new blu ray.. so when you switch over.. its no biggie.. youll just start buying blu ray discs.. it only becomes a problem when one has like 5 dvds hooked up to 5 different tvs.. and they dont want to buy 5 blu ray players to watch the new blu ray movie.. but ill restate my argument that i dont think thats a issue for the buying public at large. This is however a problem that with time will cease as blu ray players come down and down in price.. regarding hybrid discs, there is no reason why sony couldnt create a dual sided disc, the thin ness is on one side of the disc, they just have to do it on both sides, read up on how its written and you ll see why this would be no problem.. the reason hd - dvd is jumping right into this off the bat is cause the manufacturing technology to do this is alreayd existing from old updates in conventional dvd authoring.. but its very plauseable that it is inevitable that blu rays would eventually get this.. regarding broadband videos.. Hell yeah! my cable service is currently offering 25 meg download through put.. plenty of bandwidth for broadband.. sign me up!! and the movies i like.. ill back up on a blu ray on what ever codec i want and forget about it.. ;) and with a future of 200 gigs.. ill have more movies in one place and more data in one place and that makes me happy ;) in fact with 200 gigs.. if one didnt want to re buy all those movies one could take like 40 or so dvds and put them all on one blu ray.. take an entire season of high def T.V series and have em all in one place.. |
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New member Username: EdrxparkPost Number: 3 Registered: Jun-06 |
This talk about technological superiority is a moot point. Whatever blue laser device that is chosen, the technology will grow with it. Compression techniques will improve, multilayering techniques will improve. Remember how VHS was inferior to Beta, but now they have D-VHS. Just keep in mind, Sony always overhypes their stuff. They can't even get dual layer Blu Ray into production yet, much less their highly experimental quadruple layer disks. By the time they're ready to role out with that, there will be a newer better technology. Sony can't even properly release their Playstation 3 and had to fire some execs b/c of it. Through the past few years, Sony has lost efficiency in the manufacturing end of things and you guys trust a company that can't role out with what they promise? Must be the same people that get suckered into buying Minidiscs and SACD. Anyone can promise technological superiority...getting it into your homes at a reasonable cost... well that's a different story. And you guys who keep talking about how the world will end once HDDVD reaches capacity and how the studios won't put extra features b/c of it. Have anyone of you guys ever heard of a 2ND disk?! |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 3 Registered: Feb-06 |
Charles, I think you missed my point about the PS3. I'm aware that there are consumers that want both high-end gaming AND Blu-Ray. For those individuals, the PS3 is a great deal. However, there are plenty of gamers that don't give a crap about Blu-Ray (and may not even be able to take advantage of it) and now have to pay $600 for a PS3 because Blu-Ray is included. Don't be fooled. Sony didn't include a Blu-Ray player to give you a deal. They did it because they know there will be high demand for the PS3 and they'll be able to claim that those PS3 owners purchased a Blu-Ray player. Corporations only care about numbers, and Blu-Ray ownership goes up with PS3 sales. Good for Sony, but a slap in the face for gamers who don't want or need Blu-Ray. Also, as Ed points out, Sony always makes claims they can't uphold in order to win attention for their product. They're impatient and clumsy in their attempts to monopolize major formats, and that doesn't bode well for consumers. As I said before, current Blu-Ray releases being encoded with MPEG-2 is an indicator of problems. PS3 delays are another indicator. Showing up to electronics shows with non-working players and using PCs to drive content to their demos is inexcusable. Blu-Ray production has been riddled with problems and will likely continue to have problems in the future. |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 4 Registered: Feb-06 |
I see a lot of banter on this forum regarding what HDDVD or Blu-Ray promises to deliver, but does anyone here actually OWN either of these players? I have a Toshiba HD-A1 and have a friend that purchased a Samsung BD-P1000 (now returned). We compared them by playing the same movies (Training Day, Sky Captain) on the same Toshiba 52HM84 (DLP RP) television. The HDDVD player was notably cleaner with more vibrant colors, undoubtedly because Blu-Ray is using MPEG-2 for those movies. I paid $500 for my player... my friend paid $1000. HDDVD looked better than Blu-Ray. My friend returned his BD-P1000 and bought an HD-A1. I would have done the same in his position. I'm curious to hear other people's experiences. |
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New member Username: IcreatedesignPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-06 |
>Anybody who is a HD-DVD advocat and has not signed this petition should head to this link, http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/HD_DVD_Studio_Support |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 13 Registered: Jun-06 |
well now that we have established that is a better technology people are attacking Sony.. and while Sony may not be the best format releaser on the planet, or a spotless track record, it doesnt change the fact that they have put a better product out. Granted im coming from a computer stand point where performance and technicals are everything rather in mass buying experience price rules.. that said.. every complaint about Sony is speculation.. the past does not equal the future. correctr me if im wrong.. but is Sony not releasing this format with anyone else?? granted they are the flag ship but isnt there a whole bunch of other companies on board? anyways im still buying a blu ray primarily for archive and back up reasons, and i will watch and wait to see what I will buy for my home theatre, if Sony adopts the mp4 format, and prices seem more or less inline, I will see from there.. |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 5 Registered: Feb-06 |
Except Sony *hasn't* released a better product. They *said* they were going to release a better product and didn't come through. Keep in mind that although Sony has never been a consumer favorite, they do just fine in commercial markets. Beta lost to VHS for home video, but found its place in high-end video production. If Blu-Ray loses the home video battle, it'll likely find its place elsewhere... providing Sony lives up to their promises and produces a working, stable product. |
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New member Username: ManthonymartinezPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
Reading through this thread has been a very interesting learning experience for me. I am an archivist for a graphics/billboard company. In that position, I am constantly burning back-up dvds of finished projects. As I see the technology changing, I see storage capacity expanding. This is a good thing. However, I will wait to see who is the clear winner in this before I commit to a format that will alter the way my company backs up its data. I would also like to take a moment to thank everyone that has posted in this thread: I've learned a lot from all of your differing opinions and the information that all of you use to back them up. Thank you. |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 6 Registered: Feb-06 |
I'm not so sure that either of the next generation DVD formats will be very good for backup of important data. If their shelf life is anywhere near that of DVD+/-R/W, your backup disc may remain readable for as little as a week. The company I now work for used to make DVD-R backups and not even 1 year later, less than half of them could be read. I'd bet that neither of the next generation formats will improve on this lifespan for writable and rewritable discs. If you're looking to back up data, I would use proper backup solutions that use hard disks or tape. |
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New member Username: ManthonymartinezPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 |
That is a cause for concern. I do have discs that were burned several years ago that work fine and I have DAT that is less than five years old that are coasters. The lifespan of these discs will definitely be a factor in data storage...have they released any studies on life expectancy of these discs, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray? |
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New member Username: EdrxparkPost Number: 4 Registered: Jun-06 |
Hey guys, read this great article regarding the retailing of HD DVD and Blu-Ray. What a great quote, "In one remarkable retail store we found both HD-DVD and Blu-ray being demo'd on equivalent 1080p flat panel monitors. The Blu-ray demo was playing a movie and the HD-DVD was running a loop from the DVD Forum demonstration disc that had been taken with a 1080p video camera. As anyone would guess, the HD-DVD picture was smoking the Blu-ray due to the higher quality source. I asked the sales rep, "Correct me if I am wrong, but the picture on this HD-DVD actually looks better than the Blu-ray, wouldn't you agree?" He said, "No it isn't. It can't be, because it is only 1080i. The other one is 1080p." In the strange world of video marketing, specs trump the picture before your eyes." You guys who side with Blu Ray are far too caught up on hype, propaganda, and the specs that come along with it. Also, while I'm enjoying a true HD picture with my $300 Toshiba HD DVD player, how many of you BluRay campers actually own a BluRay player much less a 1080p TV? And the PS3 factor? Trust me, about half of the 400,000 first release consoles are left to rot on E-Bay. If BluRay is chosen as the standard, I'll be down $300 (I don't buy movies I rent from Blockbuster). If HD DVD is chosen as the standard, those who have bought BluRay players will be short $700. HD DVD is definitely the safe choice in every aspect. Enjoy the full article. BTW, this article was written prior to Toshiba releasing their 2nd Generation native 1080p HD DVD player. ;-) http://www.projectorcentral.com/retailing_HD-DVD_Blu-ray.htm |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 7 Registered: Feb-06 |
Great article, Ed. Good find. I'm disturbed by the small number of these I've seen. The tech info giants like CNet seem to be judging formats based on tech specs provided by Sony and Toshiba rather than observing performance. My retail experiences have mirrored those of Evan's at my local Best Buy stores... Samsung BD-P1000 shown on a 1080p LCD TV with animated content (read - compresses well under MPEG-2), Toshiba HD-A1 sitting on a shelf next to the DV-R and TiVo units with no power and no display. However, on a positive note, every time I head to Best Buy for the latest blockbuster HD release (recently Superman Returns), HD-DVD is sold out and Blu-Ray is still well stocked. Based on the available stock for other titles, I'd say this is not due to overstock on Blu-Ray titles. It appears that the HD-DVD titles are selling faster. |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
Charles, I don't think you really know what you're talking about. First of all, yes, a nice plasma will make a lot of difference between PQ. Not because it costs a lot, but it can process deinterlace/interlace a picture alot better than a cheaper plasma/lcd. 2nd. To point out, xbox did not push DVD. Why? Because there were millions of DVD players out, and for real cheap price. The only reason they used it was because they needed the space to have the PQ. 3rd. Sony pushed Blu-Ray on PS3. How? Well, as far as I know, no games are made in Blu-Ray format and I don't think they are even thinking about it. So why does it "just come with it?" What is the purpose for Blu-Ray to me, as a gamer??? Blu-Ray is strictly for playing movies. 4th. Xbox 360 didn't push HD DVD to the consumer either. Why? Because it is also, just for playing movies. Which leaves me with my choice. As a gamer, I don't need the HD DVD player, so I won't spend that extra $199. But as a movie lover, sure, I'll go get it. I own a HD DVD player myself because I'm not a hardcore gamer. Believe me, on my 92" screen, viewing 1080/I is a lot better than what I saw yesterday at the Sony Style store....... |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 |
Oh and Charles....Toshiba is not having any profit from their HD DVD players....just so you know. Their players costs more than what they're selling for. The only way they're making money is from their movies. There are articles out there, go find it. I'm not going to spoon feed a grown man. Sorry. O, if it makes you feel any better, I bought my Hd DVD player about 2 weeks ago and I already bought over 20 movies in the first week :-) Goooooo Blu-Ray!!! hahaha J/K "buddy!" |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-06 |
LOL I'm back again.....sorry, I had to finish reading the whole thing...I'm done finally....ok, certain things I highlighted as I read..... 1. Everyone doesn't have a main place to watch movies. I have 4 TVs and maybe 5 DVD players. Not to mention, my computers, 4 of them, each w/ DVD players also. Dual format is nice, yes expensive, but think about it. 1 HD DVD - $25-$29 and 1 standard DVD - $15 - $20....= $40-$50...but with a dual combo, you can get it for $$30-$35....so to me, that's a much better buy dont' you think??? Beside, each of my HD DVDs were about $18-$20 w/ shipping from ebay (all brand new coppies) 2. Don't bring DOS into this. DOS has nothing to do with HD DVD vs Blu-Ray. You sound like this idiot I met at Tweeter. Convinced me to buy Blu-Ray but couldn't give me a valid reason to why it's superior to HD-DVD. Kept giving me weird analogies......didn't make any sense....you're comparing apples to a monkey...u see, NO SIMILARITIES AT ALL....animal vs fruit...as in DVD vs DOS??? Understand that??? 3. Blu-Ray recorders, give a hacker reason to break the code and copy. Should make studios afraid...don't u think??? Though, you can find HD-DVD recorders for the same price on E-bay.... 4. Far as I know, I hear that HD-DVD has better features than Blu-Ray....even their menu looks a lot better. Now, when I compare my HD DVDs to my friend's Blu-Ray movies, I could tell the difference in the features. I won't go too much into details now. But look it up. Also, have you seen their websites??? HD-DVD has a much nicer website than Blu-Ray. (outside the main point) But you can see they're more serious about it than Sony, with an straight forward website that looks like it was made in the late 90s. So Thomas, in a way, yes, the extras are same, but HD DVD is actually making other features. Like for Tokyo Drift, you can change colors of the cars and watch it in a scene of the movie.... I don't think the regular one has that??? 5. Thomas, I doubt Sony can make a hybrid disk either. Because they're using so much space on their layers uppon layers, that when you turn the disk, whats left to make anything else??? LOL 6. Again, Charles, Wii is ont just for "kids" but what it really does is bring out the "inner-child" inside you and people at any age. If you look at Wii, all ages are buying it. Not just little kids who think it's just fun. Get your facts straight please. 7. CHARLES - STOP BEING A FANBOY! BLU-RAY IS NOT THE S***! I knew about Bly-Ray before you even know how to spell Blu. Then I thought it was going to take over DVD. Till HD DVD came out. HD DVD is still a lot newer than Blu-Ray. Which is a main reason why a lot of tech companies, computer companies are associated with it. Pioneer, Samsung, Sony, TDK, they've been with them since the beginning. That was over 4-5 years ago. SO thats why they're still associated w/ Sony....Wait till they realize that Toshiba's bringing something to the table this time....Not to mention, I can't wait till Toshiba's new SED TVs hit the store this year!!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 14 Registered: Jun-06 |
scary..whats the point in releasing a disc that dies in a year or so??? check out this video.. interesting.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHO7ZtN0vSU ed: he just mentioned that the hd dvd was smoking the blu ray casue of the superior source?? i mean and one guy who is biased towards hd dvd walks into a store admitedly knowing the hd dvd has a superior source thinks one looks better..?? Im certainly not relying on this exact scientific research when i eventually make my buying move.. Mohaimen Krazi: most of your posts are just yammering fluff, with no meat in them, never the less i will attempt to respond to your lame mud slinging posts i do know what im talking about. plasma has nothign to do with our debate, adn nothing to do with the compression, or out put, or anything regarding the formats. what any video device does with the signal is that devices responsibility.. no one on here has all the same stuff, some have projectors others lcds.. the device puting out the best signal will look the best end of story. Again it has nothign to do with the device.. yes some devices process and deinterlace video signals better but this has nothign to do with our debate. besides blu ray is progressive .. so why the hell do you need a crappy interlacing processing regarding dvd pushing.. read my post on all companies being greedy and all doing teh same thing if they had the chance. this argument is ridiculous, as its just your emotional response to a company. if you are downwith Sony then be down with Sony but dont think that you hating a company = the products they produce are automatically inferior or not going to be successful which IS what this debate is about. re one main watching place: you cant make a argument baised on one guyyou know or yourself, MOST people watch their movies in one place in the house, are you really going to sit around and watch a good movie in teh kitchen by yourself? besides when which ever format is adopted these players will come down in price and you can get one for the fridge, the bedroom, the hall way and the bathroom or where ever else you think watching a movie is useful.. re dos vs dvd - im sorry you couldnt understand my analogy, everyone else seemed to understand it fine, i was talking about backwards compatiblity.. its like haveing a dvd with a vhs version on the back.. who the hell wants that!?!? what a waste of a stamp.. you and all the others have foresight to the end of your nose.. dvds are a dying generation.. and like tape to cd.. and vhs to dvd.. each successive format change goes faster and faster, and in no time at all your crappy dvds will be obsolete.. "Far as I know, I hear that HD-DVD has better features than Blu-Ray....even their menu looks a lot better." ???? and you think i dont know what im talking about?? like a nice menu or nice web page that you personally like has anything to do with anything.first off you ridiculously say that hd dvd as more features than blu ray.. having an annoying double sided disc with a "archaic missing link" format on the other side and a tigher compression cause it can't deliver the bandwidth its supposed to be deliving is hardly alot of better features.. re: reason to hack.. sounds like you cant afford a blu ray.. and you cant afford to buy hd - dvds either as you are looking forward to copying them on the protecionless hd-dvd format..why else would you be worried about that.. re double layer disc: double layer discs are annoying this has alreayd been proven in the dvd market place.. ideally no one wants them.. but if you must have them. Yes Sony can do a dual layer it is very easy.. just make the disc as thick as a hd dvd.. then they ll hvae tons of room.. re wii being a childrens console: i dont really care who theydesigned it for.. but eveyrone knows nintendo has consitently marketed their games for children primarily .. that which im sure youll be picking up a console.. Mohaimen: quit being a hd - dvd fan boy im just playing devils advocate.. i still havent decided which format i will use for my home theatre, but i do konw which i will be useing for my pc storage.. everyone on here is talking "now" at this exact time, when this entire debate is about the future its which format will eventually if either will get teh bigger market share.. and which one is a better format / product with no thought to the future, im glad people like you are making the decisions for most people.. other wise the infamouse... "512 k is the max anyone will ever need.." would be the way and we'd be stuck with garbage for years. |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 4 Registered: Dec-06 |
Charles. I have 1 quesions for u. If a dog bites u, do u stoop down to its level to bite back??? Do you get that anology??? Well, here's my point, do I really want to waste my time arguing with a FANBOY??? Well, I'm glad you cat at least read. But I'm also sorry at the same time that your brain cannot process the information. OK, Blu-Ray is superior. Happy? You're right. Blu-Ray is the need for everyone. I will die w/out Blu-Ray. So tomorrow, I'll go and buy some more HD DVD movies. :-) |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 15 Registered: Jun-06 |
Mohaimen: i was never the one who had problems understanding analogies i eagerly await an actual challenging argument |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 5 Registered: Dec-06 |
For the rest of you guys. Have you noticed that these stores, like Best Buy and Circuitcity, Tweeters, Mayer Emco, stores like these have a nice shiny 50" Pioneer Elite playing a Blu-Ray player. Then you walk to the other end, they're playing the HD DVD on a 40" Westinghouse....LOL Then the retarted salesmen have the nerve to argue about picture quality and the superiority of Blu-Ray. LOL Ok, then you have retarted Sony PS3 owners. They argue about how they have "1080p". Here's my question. So PS3 can get 1080p over component but Xbox 360 can't??? So Sony's got some magicians working in the back ehh??? They make a secret components to allow 1080p. Microsoft doesn't know what they're talking about. They're bunch of retarted people. I mean, how do they have the nerve to go against Sony???? Oh wait, that's because they're beating Sony in every direction. Selling more 360. Still selling out of their HD DVD drive, everytime it goes on the shelf. Take 10 mins to surf ebay and see how many PS3 are still on sale, yet not selling. When PS3 came out, people bought more than 1 copy because they were trying to sell it on ebay. My friend bought 3 of them...LOL itiot can't sell it. Same with my friend's friend. Bought 5 of them and sold 1. Guys, I'm not a fanboy. I just like how Toshiba knows what they're talking about and keeping their promices. That's all. |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 6 Registered: Dec-06 |
Oh to clear myself before an idiot (Charles) try to quote me. " LOL Ok, then you have retarted Sony PS3 owners. They argue about how they have "1080p". Here's my question. So PS3 can get 1080p over component but Xbox 360 can't???" I know PS3 has HDMI but I was talking about the lower version, which does not have HDMI. Uses component..... |
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New member Username: ForzeNorthwest England Post Number: 2 Registered: Nov-06 |
Charles i agree that the better product is what counts not the country who makes it etc... Remember beatmax?...did the better product win then? Dude the war is half won just of the name familiaralitys with the average man on the street! HD & DVD are household names, Right? Blu-ray!? wtf does blu-ray mean to the average man? Alot of people will give them a wide birth, whether its better or not, just for the fact they wont buy Sony stuff. Sony have a track record for poor quality products (breaking in 2mins etc) & have poor customer relations & after sales care to top it off, Fact m8, just google 'f*ck sony' 'sony suck' etc etc...fact no1 most hated company worldwide & well earned TBH! But TBH u sound like some form of Sony fanboi m8 Either that or your Sony's CEO...plugin products for the win! |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 7 Registered: Dec-06 |
I have a secret confession guys. I do like sony. LOL No seriously, they make really good TVs and they're one of the best out there. So are their camcorders. No doubt at all. Certain companies make certain products that are the best in the field. I do want Blu-Ray. But not for movie purpose. Only for computer data purpose. As for movies, HD-DVD is perfectly fine. Also, why waste money and time on Blu-Ray? Now days, hard drives are freakin 1tb. If people really need to backup something, they can use that. Why does anyone need to back up their whole hard drive once a month in a blu-ray disk?? You can use an external HD for that. Anyway, but Sony should be smarter at their decisions. ie. Spend money on better TVs, coming out with better ideas for TVs. Toshiba and Canon are making SED tvs. Anyone heard of them yet?? Truly unique technology. Brilliant if you ask me. I think Sony should parnter with Toshiba and use that idea and make better TVs. That'd be the best decisions, rather than to fight with their blu-ray products. Read anywhere, HD DVD players are selling more, and I mean, by far more than any Blu-ray players. So are the movies. Not this is not a guess. These are facts. Sales from Amazon, Best Buy, etc. So many movies out there that I wanna buy but can't because stupid Sony decided to make them Blu-Ray. And steve, I agree w/ u completely. HD DVD, known name, sounds better than Stingray...I mean, Blu Ray. Sorry, this whole thing just reminded me of Steve Irwin. Now u know Australians won't buy those, will bring back too many bad memories. LOL J/K Charles, don't get all crazy about my joke fool. Relax. Charles, do you realize that you're arguing with everyone here??? It's not like we're all HD DVD fan in a HD DVD forum ether....People just like us. HD DVD is the Bill Clinton and Blu-Ray is the Bush..... :-) |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 8 Registered: Feb-06 |
Wow... sounds like everyone needs to chill out a bit here. There's no need to get personal and call each other names. No doubt people feel very strongly about each of these formats, but the idea here should be to spread factual information to help our fellow earthlings make the right decision. Charles - Just so you don't get the wrong idea, the comments about DVD shelf life were regarding standard DVD-R/RW, not commercially pressed discs, which last for many years. As far as any of the next generation DVD formats, time will tell how long their writable media will keep. Those of you counting on Blu-ray to be the next storage media, don't hold your breath. Tape storage is already on par and beyond the Blu-ray threshold. Writable Blu-ray media will likely be used in the same way DVD is now; movies... however, HD DVD will do the job just as well. While BETA found its place after the war it lost to VHS, Blu-ray may not be so fortunate. That Sony commercial is very clever... nicely animated. Sony has always been very good at marketing their product, and Toshiba always very poor with marketing. However, they make some very bold statements that can't be upheld. The first one that jumped out at me was 50GB being almost twice as much as 30GB. Clearly, Sony's math skills need some work. Dig deeper, and you'll find that they're comparing current HD DVD disc capacity to *future* Blu-ray disc capacity. Not exactly fair since HD DVD can *currently* claim up to 60GB on one disc due to its dual-side capability. Sony, on the other hand is having problems getting their current capacity disc to work properly. It's easy to be seduced by clever advertising... we as consumers have to be very careful about this format war, or we could end up paying the price for substandard product. |
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New member Username: TxpamiamHouston, TX USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 |
I remember a conversation one day in Nashville in the late 80s of "who would ever need more than 20 meg of space" when Macs came into normal studio use... Nowaday, it's interesting to hear similar selling tactic to young CD propaganda, heralding storage space. I use CD & DVD to store things because it's easy to reach for one and pop it into my laptop, but on the cases I exceed a disk, I can't recall going "darn - I wish my disc held more". Nope - I'm go full guns at that point and go to hard disk storage. That all being said, Mr Parson's will need to work a bit more to help me bridge the ever-usual "why should we buy it" question: because I want to know in this competitive world, what does he have that is worth me spending more, so I can get even more than that in return. I think he's missed the force that could make it work. The reason DAT became a coaster was that it was simply a distraction while awaiting the much needed CD transition to warp speed (the initial mass production integrity was bumpy if you remember, and had to be ironed out). I'm not dissing DAT or any other progress we've made - I'm speaking to the big picture which is why a format may win or lose. DVD is pretty comfortable as a household format and they will be hard pressed to abdicate because they are satisfying the masses - HD maybe a stretch, but is staged to stay around because it's an enhancement and doesn't require re tool up. I'm an audiophile from way back - I will argue XM over Sirius anyday - but for me, the ears & eyes will be the deciding factor - it may be better on paper, but like computers, which for me are at stall altitude, the video formats will be subject to the need of the senses. So if you like what you get on Blueray over HD and want to anti up, you'll do it. But if you like what you have on DVD or HD DVD, you'll not bother. I just opted for HD DCD with a click in my Netflix queue. The mistake Blueray could be making is to make spend investment money before enough players are out there - and they will go down with the sun if the buyer over looks it because they don't have a player. But we'll see...I will say - no matter the outcome, it will be fun to watch and see it all...and then tell stories to our kids...for me, it was that I had the Eagles on 8-track and had a RECORDING 8-track player :-) |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 9 Registered: Feb-06 |
Pamela, you make a good point about DVD being very comfortable. Those in the trenches of this format war shouldn't underestimate the standard DVD. Those of us with large screen HD sets and an affinity for quality picture know that DVD isn't good enough... but we're not the majority. There are a lot of people out there that don't have a large enough set to need an HD resolution picture. For them, DVD is cheap and flawless looking on their 19-36" sets. When DVD was released, everyone had a large enough tv to see the difference over VHS. Now is not a prime time for HD DVD *OR* Blu-ray. |
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New member Username: TxpamiamHouston, TX USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Jan-07 |
I found some food for thought: I was checking out Matsushita tonight and saw they were among the think-tank list for Blu-Ray. I remembered they are a backer also for HD DVD - so I did some competitive research..and I shall say "ver-ry in-ter-est-ing". 7 of the 10 HD DVD contorium members also back Blu-Ray. Both formats were launched during 2003. However the list of "backers" for Blu-Ray is twice the HD list. The add'l partners are not the usual suspects either. So I asked "why" - and I don't mean "why" one or the other. I meant "WHY"? If there was truly competition, 7 backers wouldn't be on both lists I'm thinking. Though there will be some benefit of Blu-Ray on the eye candy front, I now honestly believe Mr Parsons was not mentioning storage in regard to backing up your hard drive - he was referencing downloadable content. Java will open up currently used movie space on the disc, and it will provide the means to also download and play content from the web. When you look at the list of partners for Blu-Ray it looks clearly beyond just another pretty format. It all makes sense now...Manufacturers can "offer interactive features" from your living room (even if you don't own a PC) - you will be able to download the movie you just watched on DVD, to your iPod...or download the soundtrack...for a fee. I'm just exploring here outloud - this is not a vote nay on Blu-Ray...but I'm thinking it's another venue in which they can ultimately charge us money after the hardware is sold. It's where PC makers goofed and still struggle for a piece of the market post sale. iPod for Apple bridged it successfully (and rightly so) - why buy a whole CD when you just pay for one song, right? TIVO has ticked off a lot in the industry and this would give movie and music makers caught out of the royal seat, an road back (ads and all). It makes Netflix & Blockbuster allies again too... |
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New member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 10 Registered: Feb-06 |
It's been well known for some time that there are companies that are backing both Blu-ray and HD DVD. The reason for this is because none of them want to choose a side. There's also a strong possibility that both formats will coexist, so why not invest in both. The reason for Blu-ray's list being longer is mainly the wider studio support. I could be wrong on this, but I remember early on that studios were worried about HD DVD's copy security... specifically the ability to make managed copies. Also, from what I've seen, both Blu-ray and HD DVD have the capability to access web content. As far as downloading content from the web... I lost you a bit. You can already download HD content from the web in the same formats that HD DVD and Blu-ray use (which are the same codecs). If you're saying you think you'll be able to download and play content via a blu-ray set top box, I'd say maybe the spec allows this with a hard drive or DVR unit (HD DVD can likely do the same), but that's all been done before. Take a closer look at the capabilities of the XBox360 or the Apple iTV. |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 7 Registered: Aug-06 |
how about the new hd dvd, blu ray hybrid disc looks like they both win the battle for now even tho I still don't like blu ray http://digitalbattle.com/2006/06/23/blu-ray-hd-dvd-hybrid/ |
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New member Username: MaxmanningPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 |
Do we really need a hybrid ? http://myadd.wordpress.com/2007/01/05/do-we-need-a-blu-ray-hd-dvd-hybrid/ |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 16 Registered: Jun-06 |
Steve: search fu(k anything and you will find dozens of web sites for that too.. i dont konw where you get off thinking so many people hate Sony.. they are just like panasonic.. just more successful and ambitious.. the whole naming convention is moot.. everyone will know about blu ray.. when it hits the shelves at the local video store. we've been through this.. Mohaimen: a external drive is not backing up.. its just extra storage.. i hvae hords of gigs that i need archived.. im not the only one. .there are lots of other people just like me.. a external drive even if it is 500 gigs is not acceptable. I am very excited about the sed tvs!! i have always hated plasmas and lcds.. finally a crt monitor to be proud of! regarding me debating with everyone.. there was a time when the WHOLE world thought the world was flat, and one man debted with eveyron saying it was round.. morale of teh story.. numbers = nothing.. the truth can be held by one or by the many.. please dont bring bush into this.. its an absurd comparison. Thomas: regarding shelf life.. EXACTLY this concerns me greatly.. are you sure you just wernt using the cheapest bargain bin blank dvds? my dvds work fine.. including dvds back 4 years ago.. infact i find the older my dvds are the better they work..?!? I find Tape to be undouable for me.. i want it archived.. and to forget about it.. the thought of having it on a tape that all it takes is a magnet or a static charge to wipe out is unacceptable to me.. i want it burned on plastic.. regarding dual side capcity.. this has proven in past by the market to be a highly undesirable format.. people watn everythign on one side.. and so do i.. i hate flipping crap over.. give me 4 layers on one side and forgeta bout it.. thats a 100 gigs.. which is a hell of alot better than flipping and getting only 60 gigs.. while hd dvd has that old thickness they will have major problems achieving 3 and 4 layer depth on either side. Pamela: good point.. there is no rush.. but its inevitable .. it will happen.. and as the home theatre market stregthens people will find a similar market of "enthusiasts" that exist in the computer market.. people who want the best most cutting edge stuff.. the betas..not the vhs cheap stuff.. regarding hybrids: this is great.. the reason we need these is cause its a very likely event that neither format will clearly win.. i would most likely buy this type of unit for my home theatre.. and for my comp buy the blu ray for archiving.. |
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New member Username: ManthonymartinezPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-06 |
There is going to be one industry that will decide this outcome, the same industry that ended the VHS/Beta conflict: adult entertainment. The adult entertainment industry is hedging their bets at the moment. As soon as we begin to see a mass output of either BluRay or HD adult titles, then we will know which has "won". Its something that no one speaks of...which isn't odd considering the myriad of cultures involved. You forget that adult entertainment is an international, multi-billion dollar a year industry with a lot of pull. Just you wait. And, its funny that we aren't allowed to use p-o-r-n as a word on this site... |
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New member Username: EdrxparkPost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-06 |
For all you Blu Ray supporters, I have one question for you. Your biggest claim with Blu Ray is all the extra space. Can you guys explain to me why Mission Impossible III was on two discs for both Blu-Ray and HDDVD? ...so much for extra space huh... |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 8 Registered: Dec-06 |
LOL P-O-R-N haha! I saw p-o-r-n on HD DVD for sale online. I started to crack up. Oh man too many things popping out everyday about HD DVD. OK, so a new player will hit the stores soon. New 1080p player for around $600 from Toshiba. I dont' really mind hybrid disks. It'll be cool. As long as the picture quality is as good ad HD DVD then I'll be happy. Here's something...... "Toshiba also announced new improvements to HD DVD technology that will greatly increase its storage capacity. The company said it developed a triple-layer HD DVD-ROM (read only memory) disc that can hold 51G bytes of data on a single-sided disc, a huge advance over current discs. Toshiba was able to increase the capacity by enabling each of three layers on a disc to store 17G bytes of data. The vendor aims to gain approval for the new disc by the DVD Forum this year." So you see, they can have more space now. I see the point of HD DVD and Blu-Ray only for movies. Not to store data. The disks are way too much right now to use for data saving. I rather just worry about waxhing better quality movies for now until the next best thing comes out only for data storing. |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 9 Registered: Dec-06 |
HD DVD's event kicked off with a short film showing supposedly real people being asked questions about HD DVD Blu-ray and the format wars. It was hard to tell whether this was aimed at exposing the ordinary punter's confusion about the two competing high def formats, or to simply poke fun at analysts, journos and that-bloke-down-the-pub continually trying to pick a winning horse for one reason or another. After the film, the host arrived - none other than Billy Bush (no I don't know who he is either) and he went on to give an nice big pat on the back to all those important industry types sitting at the front of the room and generally telling us all how wonderful HD DVD is, etc, etc. At this point my attention would have started to wander but a few things did keep me interested. Firstly, that HD DVD seems to be doing a whole lot better as a format than I would have thought. Sure, it's no surprise that they were blowing their own trumpet, but the stats are impressive. For instance there are now more than 250 HD DVD titles on the market, which means sales are increasing at a faster rate than good ol' DVD did when it first hit the shelves. More than 300 more titles are expect to be released over 2007 with an anticipated revenue of some $600m. Not bad. Most impressive of all, it was claimed that HD DVD is enjoying an adoption rate of 28 movies per player per year, which again is very similar, if not better than, DVD's initial figures. This has been helped largely by its sale of 'hybrid' HD DVDs. They work as ordinary HD DVDs, but if you don't have an HD DVD player handy you can just pop them in a standard DVD player and watch the SD version. Very smart idea. This has helped people ease themselves into the HD idea and makes building a decent HD DVD library a bit less intimidating. HD DVD is also outselling Blu-ray - small wonder given that HD DVD was first to the market by a long way. However, HD DVD didn't seem to want to dwell on its position in the market relative to Blu-ray, certainly there was little mention of the format war. There was very much the feeling of HD DVD establishing itself as the underdog, and the underdog that everyone loves. Not like that big nasty Sony Blu-ray bully. After the stats it was time for the hardware news and a new announcement for some features soon to be enabled in HD DVD players. HD DVD players all have an ethernet connection and this is going to be used much more over the coming year. Along with ever improved in-movie interactivity options (such as screen in screen video commentary and storyboard clips), which have apparently been a bit of a sleeper hit taking even HD DVD manufacturers by surprise, you'll soon be able to start sharing content. Woah there! Content sharing through HD DVD? Before we get too excited, this isn't going to mean Bit Torrent-esque downloads for your HD DVD drive. In fact all they were demonstrating at the press conference was a pretty unexciting option where by you can save sections from certain films, very much like bookmarking, then let your friends (who also own a copy of the movie) see your bookmarked clips. Billy Bush (someone please tell me who he is) seemed very keen on it; personally I don't see it making much of an impression at all. Especially when you'll have to sign up through some HD DVD forum, then add your friends, and then all you get is a bit of a film you already have to see. Maybe it will have better business or educational connotations. What was more exciting though, was that it looks like HD DVD will be offering downloadable trailers from its servers, and a new system whereby advertisers can give out codes that let you access short clips from upcoming titles. In theory it should even be possible to then check out your local cinema times through your player. It all seems pretty smart and it is clear that HD DVD has firmly established itself in the HD market. Now its up to Blu-ray to knock it off its perch - something that will be extremely difficult using a more complicated, more expensive technology. Came straight to this page? Visit www.TechDigest.tv for all the latest news. |
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New member Username: ManthonymartinezPost Number: 4 Registered: Dec-06 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Bush |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 11 Registered: Feb-06 |
Charles: No, I was not using cheap media. In fact, I have some of my personal stuff burned on cheap DVD-R that lasted longer than stuff at work burned to a high quality disc. I'm not sure that DVD-R media was ever intended for long term storage, and I wouldn't count on HD DVD or Blu-ray recordable discs being any different. Anyone looking to back up important data should invest in proper storage that is intended for backup. Hard disks are also an acceptable method of backup. Hard disk space is getting cheaper by the minute, and at this point it's a very affordable option to purchase an internal or external hard drive, fill it up with stuff you want to archive, and move it offline for safe keeping. I have a ton of video stashed on internal 3.5" SATA drives that I keep in a Pelican case. For what I was paid for the work, that solution was a bargain. Sorry for the OT discussion gents. |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 17 Registered: Jun-06 |
Anthony: good point. (no pun) the adult industry will definetly have sway in in what format is adopted, I still think life would be alot easier if they just stamped a dvd with hd on 1 side adn blu on the otehr.. instead of hd on one side and some archaic ancient dvd-9 format on the other side.. what a waste.. its only good for people who are waiting to upgrade to a hd dvd but want to watch teh movie now.. lame.. regarding 3 layer hd - dvd wow.. imagine those three layers on a blu ray.. 75 gigs.. nice.. which brings me to the topic of mission impossible 3 on two discs.. say good bye to that when 3 adn 4 layer blu ray and hd dvd start coming out.. re: billy bob and the hd camp.. aall propoganda.. the ugly truth is that hd dvd is exactly dvd back in the day.. "JUST barely enough and soon to be antiquated" and they purposely engineered it so that the pub had dvd 5 and the studios had dvd-9 laame.. atleast blu ray has a little more potential. by the way.. all you vc1 / mp4 fanboys sony has officially announced that future titles will be in these formats.. Thomas: dont apologize you arent off topic.. storage is a huge factor atleast for me of each format.. its my opinion that anything magnetic is not storage.. its temporary..everyone konws any data on a tape like device like that will eventually die.. either by static energy.. the natural magnetic signature of the earth.. etc.. i want it burned on plastic.. maybe cause i was using dvd+r a better format thats why my dvds are all fine.. i havent had a problemwith one yet.. the only prob i have ever had is burning them.. but the retreival problems are immediate though.. and are not accumulated over time.. i sure hope someone in sony or toshiba is reading my post.. we need ARchival worthy Storage capabilities damn you! |
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New member Username: MetaloPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 |
I think at this point in time there are too many factors remaining to call the battle now. Personaly I am rooting for HD-DVD, but thats mostly because I don't like Sony. Sony and I have a history, and they have screwed me at every turn, but that is something I'm sure you don't care about. Most of my movie collection is either in DVD, DivX, or Xvid format. The biggest argument that I have heard so far is that Blue-Ray had the better quality video. I have heard so many people talk about how they bought their DVD player and or DVD player because it is HD and HD is better than regular. I'm sorry to say this but I have 20/15 vision (meaning that my eyes see better than normal) and I can't tell the diference between a good connection on my cable and a HD movie. They claim that B.R. use 1080p where as HD-DVD uses 1080i. Hmm lets think about that for a second. I build computers and I don't really know what the hell that means. I know that they 1080p is supposed to be a better resolution than 1080i but is the difference even noticable to the average person. Honestly it can't be that different, but truthfully are people going to know that? No, thw average american is just going to buy what they are told to buy and if the media says Blue-Ray is better thats what they'll buy. The next one I hear is storage. Sure blue-ray boasts a wopping 50gigs (20gigs or HD-DVD), but at what cost. Aside from the huge production and manufacuturing cost of blue-ray I have heard that the method that Sony used to increase the capacity of the disc was by reducing the protective layer of plastic to 0.1mm where as HD-DVD still has that 0.6mm layer of protective plastic to prolong its life span. By doing this they (in their greedy little minds) increase profits. Let me explain in more detail. If you have ever bought a DVD or a CD and listened (or watched) it enough that it was getting scratch up and damaged to the point that it was unreadable, then you know that after that point you either had to repair it or replace it. Ok, now this is where the profit comes into play. Since you can't repair a Blue-Ray due to the extra thin plastic, you have to replace it (plus since the protective layer is so thin the disc will go bad faster). Also if you are thinking that you can avoid this problem think again. To simply make copies of your blue-rays is going to send even more money into Sony's pockets. First you'll have to buy a blue-ray RW (or copyier), then you'll have to have to buy the blanks. Plus to add insult to injury even just copying the disc is going to lower its lifespan (because copying the disc means putting it into a drive). So basicly when you buy a blue-ray movie you will be paying for that movie many many times no matter what you do. Now price! Blue-Ray = Expensive! HD-DVD = Not quite as expensive. Truly I say if quality and storage space is all your intrested in the get a d*mn computer! You could build a PVR (personal video recorder) to act as a storage device to hold all your movies and favorite tv shows that will cost less than ONE Blue-Ray player! Not to mention the amount of money you'll spend buying those new blue-ray movie discs. 1 Terabye holds a lot of movies! Plus hard drives live a lot longer than any form of plastic storage, and 4 250gig HDDs don't cost that much. Final thoughts: Hold on to your DVD collection for now, and don't fall into the hype of new technology. Don't you remember Betamax and MiniDisc and where are they now? |
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New member Username: MetaloPost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-07 |
"...about how they bought their DVD player and or DVD player because it is HD and HD is better..." Opps, I meant to say, "bought thier DVD player or HD TV because..." |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 18 Registered: Jun-06 |
calling all sony haters.. all sony haters.. please tell the rest of us why you hate sony so much.. how have they "screwed you at every turn".. please enlighten the rest of us or if there are any other non sony haters on this site.. metalo: buying hd dvd cause you hate sony.. a totally emotional response.. not exactly the best way to make a decision always.. just cause you build computers doesnt mean you are an expert on video standards.. trust me.. i had a learning curve myself. freaking alot of depth there. allow me to inform.. with blu ray now comign out with vc1 mp4 and the rest there will be exactly no difference between the two formats, in codec now the difference between 1080 p versus 1080 i is not lines .. (well technically it is) but rather the type of signal.. 'p' stands for PROGRESSIVE meaning you are looking at a full image with no missing lines.. 'i' stands for interlaced.. interlaced is a type of video format where becaues of limited bandwidth capacity the source or sometimes video device will produce a image with half the lines on one frame then the other half on the frame now all this is going on so fast i believe 30 frames a second or whatever the case and it mixes and your poor eyes apparently dont konw the difference.. now for obvious reasons, hd dvd has to use interlaced because of the capacity, bandwidth limitation of the limited technology and limited foresight.. ( BUT WAIT.. you can get double sided dvd compatible disks! horay) blu ray, has more bandwidth, and capacity allowing for a truer smoother progressive signal, built truly for the video display systems of the future that as they get better teh difference between these two types will inherently become more and more obvious,blu also has future capacity potential to possibly even support a minor pixel resolution jump.. (i do realize this is very optimistic but still atleast blu has room to grow where hd - dvd is already at its bandwidth and (minus the 3rd layer to come out) capacity threshold..) regarding 'wearing out' i dont konw what kind of 'med-evil' dvd device you hvae but the only 'wear' and 'tear' you are getting on a dvd is where the little wheels attach and spin the disk.. but that still isnt wear and tear.. but thats the only place of the dvd that ever touches anywhere the rest is just sitting there bouncing back bumps that are tranlated into binary or a digital signal by the lazer.. so unless you are thinking that a lazer could wear it out??? i have no idea what your talking about.. a well cared for dvd should last a very very long time.. we are not talking about records here.. they DONT wear out?!?!? think about it.. if it was really rubbing against the bottom do you think they would be able to spin it 48x speed and not have a problem? anyways.. the thin layer while it may be a concern the benefits far out weight the positives, and if a disk is well cared for it wont have any problems.. quit putting yoru fingerprints all over it.. and dragging it along the floor.. that might help.. regarding computer vs blu ray.. right now i can buy a blu ray BURNER not just a player.. for 500 bux (canadian)..(and it keeps geting cheaper) thats one crappy computer if your talking about buying one for that much.. re hard drives.. for four 250 gigs thats minimum 400 bux ... you think your going to buy the rest of the computer for a 100 bux?!?! and for the record.. hard drives do NOT Last longer than plastic records.. plastic is superior on every level. repeat a hard drive can be wiped by so much as a stray static charge.. boom gone! cds? nothing.. a hard drive breaks down on average with averager use in 2-3 years.. a cd that is been taken care of will last virutally indefinetly which special exceptions. (Thomas i suspect those dvds you burned were broken the moment you burned them.. like all teh dvds i have had problems with.. i thought they were degrading too.. but realized they were just burned differently.. different hardware works at different compatibility levels with different brands and types of dvd type material.. ex -r +r etc..try using a different brand and or type of medium ie +r my dvds of 4 years and plus -just checked - are workign fine..) hard drives / tapes is not archiving.. its just extra TEMPORARY storage.. i go though 500 gigs in 4 months.. it is un realistic for me to keep buying terabytes of hard drives.. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 12 Registered: Feb-06 |
Metalo, what size television are you comparing Cable and HD DVD on? It's probably not worth upgrading to HD DVD or Blu-ray unless you have a television that's at least 40". On my 52" television, there is a vast improvement going from standard to high definition. The difference between 1080i and 1080p, however is a different story. It's very difficult for even the sharpest pair of eyes to determine the difference between 1080i and 1080p unless you're viewing a screen that's 70" or larger. This is the reason why Toshiba's $500 consumer based player is 1080i and their $900 installer based player is 1080p. This keeps the cost down for consumers who likely won't need or have 1080p capability. Contrary to some of the mudslinging and complete misinformation you see going on here, HD DVD discs are all 1080p, just like Blu-ray. Charles... we know you favor Blu-ray... honestly, we get it. But please check your facts as you're posting to be sure you're not misinforming anyone. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 13 Registered: Feb-06 |
The fact that Blu-ray has a thinner coating is a bigger problem than some would have you believe. How about those of us who use Netflix? Those discs need to be able to stand up to a certain amount of abuse to retain their life, and a disc with less protection will not last as long. Originally, Sony had a protective cartridge around Blu-ray discs. They later determined that they were able to coat the discs enough to protect them for general use. Can the discs really stand up to "general" use, or did Sony just do what they could to avoid Blu-ray looking bad in a clunky cartridge next to Toshiba's disc? One should wonder. Going back to backup/storage for a moment... there is no standard set of guidelines that determines that "data written on magnetic media is temporary and data written on plastic is long-term". Both types of media can be destroyed... DVDs scratched and Hard disks, tapes, etc. erased with a magnet. It's my opinion that it's much more common for a disc to get scratched than a disk or tape to be erased. Charles, you're free to archive your data however you like. I'm glad you haven't had any problems with your DVD+R media. But don't make off-the-cuff derogatory comments about others for the sake of your argument. You know nothing of my background or experience. If you had asked instead of assumed, I would have told you that I have had experiences with both DVD- and DVD+ media where data was readable for days-weeks after burning a disc a later became unreadable. It was not cheap media. I urge everyone again... if you are backing up important data that you will need in the future, DVD-/DVD+ may fail you. |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 8 Registered: Aug-06 |
Actually not all blu ray movies are in 1080p, if you look at a lot of the first releases they are only 1080i, unlike hd dvd which are all 1080p, and you can tell a differance in quality between blu ray and hd as hd's sound is a lot crisper and cleaner and the video is a lot brighter and cleaner. |
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New member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 10 Registered: Dec-06 |
Charles has a point. I'm switching to blu-ray.... no. j/k....seriously, j/k! Guys, I went to the Sony Store last week. They were playing Click on their new XBR 52" LCD. I went up to it....picture was so grainy that I laughed at it. This is compared to my Xobx 360 HD drive connected to my projector at 92" screen. I seriously don't see it being grainy or even on my 42" plasma.... Charles: Buddy, tell me what country you live in please?? Because in America, we can buy a 500gb SATA II hd for less than $400....and that's SATAII...for SATA it's a lot cheaper.... 2nd....$500 for burner ehh? What you gonna hook that up with?? Thin air? Of course, you'll need to spend money on getting a computer right? Since you claim $500 computers are crappy, I'm guessing you'd get a $1500 computer.....either way, whatever you get, add $500 to it. 3rd....again, I will tell you, difference between 1080i and 1080p is so slim that 1 out of maybe 100 could tell the difference.....But that's not something to worry about anymore since HD DVD players are also 1080p....and the one coming out this spring will be for around $600....beat that Sony. Anyway, no matter what you say man, you can't convince us that Sony is superior in the new HD format.....but I will give them 2 thumbs up for their TV...though, now I'm interested to see SED vs the Sony LED technology....hmm |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 11 Registered: Dec-06 |
Charles has a point. I'm switching to blu-ray.... no. j/k....seriously, j/k! Guys, I went to the Sony Store last week. They were playing Click on their new XBR 52" LCD. I went up to it....picture was so grainy that I laughed at it. This is compared to my Xobx 360 HD drive connected to my projector at 92" screen. I seriously don't see it being grainy or even on my 42" plasma.... Charles: Buddy, tell me what country you live in please?? Because in America, we can buy a 500gb SATA II hd for less than $400....and that's SATAII...for SATA it's a lot cheaper.... 2nd....$500 for burner ehh? What you gonna hook that up with?? Thin air? Of course, you'll need to spend money on getting a computer right? Since you claim $500 computers are crappy, I'm guessing you'd get a $1500 computer.....either way, whatever you get, add $500 to it. 3rd....again, I will tell you, difference between 1080i and 1080p is so slim that 1 out of maybe 100 could tell the difference.....But that's not something to worry about anymore since HD DVD players are also 1080p....and the one coming out this spring will be for around $600....beat that Sony. Anyway, no matter what you say man, you can't convince us that Sony is superior in the new HD format.....but I will give them 2 thumbs up for their TV...though, now I'm interested to see SED vs the Sony LED technology....hmm |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 19 Registered: Jun-06 |
Thomas: thanks for correcting me, (but it should be noted that some people on here were comparing hd dvd 1080 i prices to top end blu rays 1080p) in fact while we are clearing up fact from fiction lets look at a couple other facts and fiction that is thrown around on this site.. MYTH #1:blu ray discs costs more.. (its the reason all of you sing joyous praise to the hd dvd..) the following can be confirmed on amazon as of this exact momemnt: mission imposible is 27$ is hd version price for the blu ray???? 27$ WOw.. same price?? MYTH 2: the players are vastly more expensive.. the new samsung blu ray player is priced at 569 on amazon.. and the hd is at what 500 bux?? and the only reason there is any discrepency in price is because they are directly trying to manipulate the market, by selling them at a loss so they can get a controling mass of market share ..where as in reality the units are alot closer to each other in price.. (sounds lot like they are trying to jam their inferiour technology into as many homes as possible knowing that the more people who buy em will likely not switch over due to high price tags for both.. which will inturn encourage friends to get teh same formate.. so theycan trade dvds etc) see hd dvd taking losses http://www.digitalhome.ca/content/view/1342/51/ regarding storage vs archiving: Thomas if you feel comfortable having yoru data on a magnetic drive by all means.. but for me.. that is an unacceptable medium,and always will be. at my house i have NEVer had a dvd fail but i have had 3 hard drives crash.. countless magnetic devices fail from just "being old" or getting wiped due to static energy.. carpet is everywhere! but with this we are digressing.. and i think to each of us our own opinions.. and Thomas i meant no disrespect to you with my comments, i just think people should definetly take your warning seriously but also realize that that was your experience with your burner and the type of dvd media you were using... and that other people could have wildly different results.. Destry Carr: have you really tested a hd dvd and a blu ray right beside each other and tested for sound and video quality on the same tv and sound system? untill someone here can claim that.. which i konw no one can.. its all circumstancial evidence.. i mean the way people talk on here about the difference between mp2 and mp4.. one would assume we are talking vhs versus dvd.. for anyone who really wants to know the difference do a search mp2 versus mp4 or divx versus xvid .. its marginal at best.. the difference comes in file size.. mp4 is just a better compression algorithm with a few more features and supposed to have a little less losslyness and yes this is how alot of the first blu ray discs came out.. but this is moot as now blu ray as predicted supports all the same formats.. Mohaimen : regarding yoru trip to the store.. again with teh circumstancial evidence.. 1. thanks for making my point.. go re-read mine and his post. 2. thanks for making my point again..see above.. and keep in mind that a burner and player.. not just a player.. for 550 or whatever it was.. and thats canadian dollars.. 3. i have a 150 inch at home.. ican guarantee you i will be able to tell the diff between the 'p' and the 'i'.. and when those new screens come out like you say.. the difference will be even more obvious.. regarding 600 bux.. beat that sony : they alreayd have in my mind.. i can get a burner for less money right now.. im not trying to convince you sony is better.. what i am trying to point out is that hd dvd isnt better and if anything will hurt consumers in the long run more if adopted as its future life cycle is less.. think about it guys.. how long will hd dvd last? 3 years? 5? before its obselete.. its always about teh big picture.. i am like a kid in a candy store about the news of sed tvs and monitors.. i am going to hold out for one.. to heck with lcd and plasma! |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 20 Registered: Jun-06 |
lets have a pro con list.. people please feel free to add to this.. it will be divided up into now and future. Now: *** Hd dvd --------------------- feature- players pro: slightly cheaper (how long this will be so undetermined) pro: possibly more selection of movies but as of yet undertermined if more movies exist. and if so may be moot as this is bound to fluxuate month by month, year by year.. cons: movies are currently using 80 percent and above current capacity wich will force hd to either implement a third layer or a annoying flip side.. or two disks.. for longer movies or other products such as tv series or possibly higher def movies of the future.. feature - codec pro: all the latest and greatest codecs used cons: feature - output pro: 1080p ready cons: ==================================== Blu ray Now:**** feature- players pro: newer technology, higher bandwidth, which equals better seek and load times. pro: more capacity, allowing more potential bonus material, or creative possiblity by the studios. pro: larger capacity means less disks and no fliping a disk or putting in a second disk half way through a movie..and better support for larger data products such as long movies, tv shows and other special media which are becoming more and more common.. cons: slightly more expensive cons: second layer apparently hasnt been mastered yet.. un verified.. (help here any news?) feature - codec pro: all the latest and greatest codecs used cons: older initial movies were in older codec mp2 which at this point is undetermined if this is a significant difference.. feature - output pro: 1080p ready cons: =========================== Hd - dvd Future:**** feature- players pro: unknown, where future price differences will be. cons: aside of adding possibly a third layer,all the potential of this technology is at its max currently right now. Very little tweaks remain though this is also unverified as no one konws what the future will bring. cons: 'good enough' capacity then will keep studios creativity at bay as they will still have to work with the confines of the limited space on each disc, however with a third layer and further tweaks to inch out a few extra gigs, this problem could be eased significantly. cons: archiving computer data will result in much more discs to do the same amount of backing up which will resultin more data being in more places making recalling information a more clumsy feature - codec pro: concievably all the best codecs will be used. cons: feature - output pro: cons: if output ever changes even slightly it is unlikely the bandwidth offered by these units will be enough to sustain it. ------------------- Blu ray Future:**** feature- players pro: prices will come down making difference in price neglegable..(speculative but baised on historic prices of dvd) pro: capacity potential is projected at 200 gigs due to thiner layer allowing for more layers and more data on each layer.. ( un verified as to whether hd dvd has the capacity to have as many layers) pro: studios could possibly start releasing high def trailers, high def extra features, and all sorts of extra goodies in all the extra room to play pro: backing up data on computers for movie/sound studios and businesses alike will be abreeze.. people will be able to back up an entire operating system hard drive, back huge quantities of data and have it all in once place or have litterally a terabyte of data on 5 discs.. pro: bandwidth and capacity could theoretically support a minor up in resolution but probably very unlikely. though if they annonced this, this would be teh death blow to hd dvd.. pro: as the technology matures, more and more players will take full advantage of higher bandwidth and capacity allowing for more and better features, blistering fast read times, even more capacity etc.. cons: cooperation with hdmi restrictions and content protection - unkown if this will be implemented but i reject teh idea of this and believe this will only hurt or be a pain in the butt for legitimate buyers.. feature - codec pro: all teh best codecs concievably will be used cons: feature - output pro: cons: |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 12 Registered: Dec-06 |
LOL why's everything pro except 1 con for Blu-Ray??? Even with that, you're trying to make it look it pro..... Charles....pleaes, no more buddy...seriously, no more. It'll be very hard for you to convince us that Blu-Ray is superior to HD DVD. Might be superior in in space but please....leave it alone Charles bro... |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 21 Registered: Jun-06 |
Mohaimen: ??? read it again man.. theres somethign wrong with your eyes..this is the second time you have read my post and gotten someting totally different from what was posted.. there are numerous cons listed for the blu ray.. infact i have four cons listed for hd dvd and 4 for blu ray.. maybe thats why you think hd -dvd looks so much better.. you need glasses.. i joke i joke.. but seriously.. im not trying to convince anyone one of anything.. i just think of dvd back in the day.. and how at first a 2x burner was SOO fast.. and the discs were 4.3 gigs.. and by the time the technology matured.. we had 8.6 gigs and 8x burning and beyond.. and when i see blu ray.. i see the possiblity for tweaking like this as being way more potential thatn hd dvd.. and i hope that the better technology is adopted.. but in the end.. who ever wins wins.. in the end im a technology enthusiast, not a sony fany boy.. im for who ever has the better technology.. if i believed it was toshiba.. id be waving their flag right now.. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 14 Registered: Feb-06 |
Charles, you have a 150" screen at home? Wow... I'd love to see your setup. Got any pics? Let me get this straight. You're telling me that HD DVD will be obsolete in 3 to 5 years but Blu-ray won't? I think you overestimate the usefulness of that extra space that Blu-ray claims it has over HD DVD. I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that discs in general will be made obsolete by some type of direct data service - either downloading HD movies to your home network, or connecting to streaming service like on-demand. However, this will take some time as it's a big change for most consumers. If the difference between Blu-ray and HD DVD were hundreds of gigs, maybe Sony would have a superior enough product to make a difference while discs are in use. However, that's not the case. With the current length of movies, current length of the average collection of bonus material, and current compression technologies, Blu-ray falls short of gaining a useful advantage over HD DVD. Pair this with Sony's problematic launch of Blu-ray, and it becomes clear that HD DVD is on more stable ground. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 15 Registered: Feb-06 |
"have you really tested a hd dvd and a blu ray right beside each other and tested for sound and video quality on the same tv and sound system? untill someone here can claim that.. which i konw no one can.. its all circumstancial evidence.. i mean the way people talk on here about the difference between mp2 and mp4.. one would assume we are talking vhs versus dvd.. for anyone who really wants to know the difference do a search mp2 versus mp4 or divx versus xvid .. its marginal at best.. the difference comes in file size.. mp4 is just a better compression algorithm with a few more features and supposed to have a little less losslyness and yes this is how alot of the first blu ray discs came out.. but this is moot as now blu ray as predicted supports all the same formats.." I believe I mentioned that I put Blu-ray and HD DVD up against each other on the same home theater system - with the same movies. There was a very noticable difference, and HD DVD looked better than Blu-ray (less artifacts and more accurate color). Search around, you'll find multiple accounts of these findings. As for Blu-ray now using MPEG4 and VC1, the proof will be in the pudding, and there will always be those movies that are in MPEG2 dragging down the collection. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 13 Registered: Dec-06 |
Charles, dude, I do wear glasses! LOL U know what they say. 4 eyes are better than 2 :-) Sorry I read ur post wrong, it was late last night, ok not late, but I was too tired. My fault. But yea, lets swap pics of our hometheaters. Email me at MohaimenK@aol.com if u want...then I'll reply w/ pics of my setup. Thomas: Yes, I've also done the same test. Between Blu-Ray and HD DVD on a similar setup. Pictures didn't look the same. One thing I hated about Blu-Ray was that the picture was much more washed out. I mean, the color was a lot warmer, not as vibrant. So I had to play w/ the TV after I put the disk in, in order to get the best picture. As for HD DVD (which I played before) I didn't have to change the picture setup. It was as bright, vibrant as I w/ my previous setup. But if you guys check out posts online, you'll see the similar issue, others have posted. As for the MP4 and VC1. Well, newer technologies are coming out and usually they tend to make things better than to go worse. Dont' u think?? So that's my whole point with the space issue. I will say it again and again, for the quality HD DVD is producing, no need for anything larger than what they provide, because of their Codec. People are getting the wrong idea that since the files are smaller, it is being compressed a lot more than MPEG4 but that is not ture. The codec itself uses a smaller space so that with it's regular compression, we're not losing anything. I hope I didn't confuse anyone?? |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 14 Registered: Dec-06 |
Ok guys, here's my rant.... So Universal is coming out with the Total HD (which will have all 3 formats on either one side or dual sided disk)....which I think is a fantastic idea. But some of the retarted studios don't want to support it. Them, being Blu-Ray supporters! Like Disney! Then there was another...I forget names... Then they claim that it's a stupid idea....because they're too cheap to make the combo disks....because they already spent tons of $$ toward Blu-Ray format...Well, though Hitachi is rethinking about a new Blu-Ray camcorder they were about to start in production....Smart! But my point is, it's not a stupid idea. Why?? Because this will really help the sale of the movies (software) and if all movies come in both format, it'll be easier for the consumer to decide which one they like better. If they want to pay for the Blu-Ray player for higher price or buy the cheaper HD DVD player. Then they can also compare the picture quality between the two formats....wouldn't that make everything much more easier? I prefer that over dual player. Only because the price of a dual player will be so much more higher. But Universal already claimed that the combo disks will be the same price as a single layer disk! Amy inputs guys??? Agree or disagree??? |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 16 Registered: Feb-06 |
I think the idea of having a disk with both HD DVD and Blu-Ray is absurd... just seems like a waste of space and resources to create. I also don't believe for one second that these discs will be cheaper on the store shelf. Now, the idea of having a dual format *player* is another story. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 15 Registered: Dec-06 |
Thomas, if the studio who invented said the price would be around the same, then I won't argue..Best Buy and Circuit City and mazon already agreed to back them up. Here's te Article http://news.com.com/Retailers+back+Warner+Bros.+DVD+combination/2100-1041_3-6148925.html "Best Buy, Circuit City Stores and Web seller Amazon will support the format, studio executives said on Tuesday." oh and..... "In a presentation executives said the prices of the discs would not be materially different from single-format discs and that the dual-format discs could be made dual-sided as well as single-sided." So even if the disks do cost maybe $5 more...I can live w/ that....because the price for a disk will come down a lot faster than a player, IMO.....  |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 17 Registered: Feb-06 |
Oh, I'm not saying that you're lieing, Mohaimen. I hope you didn't take that the wrong way. I meant that I'll remain skeptical on the pricing of those discs until I see them on store shelves at no additional cost. It was also said at one point that HD DVD / Standard DVD hybrid discs were to be the same price as HD DVD discs, and they're clearly not. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 18 Registered: Feb-06 |
One perfect reason to hate Sony... propaganda. http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/blu-ray-disc-association-declares-victory-ove r-hd-dvd/ And just like I said they would (somewhere above), Sony is saying that Blu-ray player sales topped HD DVD player sales... and why? Because of the PS3. Nevermind that the PS3 is a next generation gaming console that would sell like hotcakes regardless. Pure rubbish, Sony. Shame on you. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 16 Registered: Dec-06 |
Haha Thomas...nah dont' worry. I didn't take anything the wrong way. Sorry for sounding like that....I lost my words I guess.... Yeah, though, ur right. I see where your going with this.. I do agree, but then again it's Werner's technology, sorry when I said Universal...but I think maybe they'll have a way to write all 3 layers together on one side, in a single transaction....u know what I mean? The way I figure is, if they say Blu-Ray is slower to make, along with being more expensive, then you can't imagine how much more expensive it'd be to make 3 layers of disks, not to mention 3 times longer for each disk.....so in a way, you're right. But with my statement above, "Thomas, if the studio who invented said the price would be around the same, then I won't argue" I meant, that I'm sure they have something cooked up under their sleeves that will make the transaction smooth and keep consumer happy....let's see the initial disks though....then we' know if they're pulling a Sony on us. As for the Sony article...yea I read that crap yesterday. I think the angry comments under the article says enuff...but just to add, There's no way to calculate how many people are ACTUALLY GOING TO USE PS3 for as a BLU-RAY PLAYER! It's stupid trying to compare that to the number of HD DVD players sold..... Now here's why, and I'm sure allllll of you will agree, even Charles buddy, that yes, people are going to use PS3 to watch movies, BUT how many of the 1 million will use it for movie purpose and not just for gaming??? Yes, I see where Sony was trying to go w/ it. They were thinking "oh if people have blu-ray players at home, it'll give them a reason to go out and buy movies, but that didn't work out as planned. On the other hand, where more than 100K 360 HD drives were sold, strictly to watch movie. U know??? So that whole article w/ Sony, just ignore...they're trying to get attention from people. They know they're losing so they'l do anything to make it look like they're not hurting inside....if u thought that was stupid, u should have seen their "Bu-Ray Man" video....of them getting some retards to dress up like the Blues Brothers and change the word from "Soul Man" to "Blu-Ray Man" and claiming their victory at 2007 CES. O and in the end, only some Sony employees clapped and the dancers on the stage...LOL!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 19 Registered: Feb-06 |
"There's no way to calculate how many people are ACTUALLY GOING TO USE PS3 for as a BLU-RAY PLAYER! It's stupid trying to compare that to the number of HD DVD players sold....." Precisely. The full article mentions "according to a recent SCEA survey of over 10,000 PS3 owners, 80 percent indicated they will buy Blu-ray movies and 75 percent said they use the PS3 as a primary device for viewing movies." Of course PS3 owners are going to buy Blu-ray movies. They just paid $600 for a gaming console! Why wouldn't they take advantage of Blu-ray now that they were forced to pay for it in order to play the games they want!? Surveys are a load of crap. Who knows where they pulled their sampling of 10,000 PS3 owners. |
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New member Username: TxpamiamTX USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Jan-07 |
This is what I get for working long hours - an email box full of good stuff here! I saw a blurb last week about PS3 and Blu-Ray...hum...I hear the song "Beta" verse 2... Oh and I have to chime in about Sony here. (Forgive me - I'm going to play the devil advocate) - if you put two models side by side, could you honestly tell them apart - one is Sony, another Panasonic let's say (or pick your Sony competitor)? I have my own answer...but I want to see honestly, if there are other true differences you have seen, and not just because Sony is big company or manhandles their marketing etc, etc. As I said - I'm just drawing out some good discussion here. I'll share my own honest answer later in the week. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 17 Registered: Dec-06 |
Thomas...I had a long post then the stupid thing got deleted because the site was under maintainence...anyways, check out this website http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-coverage-from-the-warner-press-conferenc e/ that's the website about Total HD....it's pretty cool.... |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 20 Registered: Feb-06 |
Thanks for the link, Mohaimen. One thing I noticed: "Cost of production is unknown, but it will not be materially more that a regular HD disc. No retail price yet, but it is not cost prohibited. If it motivates customers to buy it will be worth the cost." So they don't cost much to produce materially... however they will have higher licensing costs from the multiple formats. Oh well, time will tell. As they say, if consumers buy in, the prices will drop. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 18 Registered: Dec-06 |
Yea...I feel like the price will always drop...if not in the first few months, then by the end of 07....Now I'm worried about the new 51gb HD DVD disks....I hope they're compatible with our current players...... |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 19 Registered: Dec-06 |
Ahhhh *P*O*R*N*! The savior of all! haha http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/11/ces2007_hddvd_blu_ray/ "It would seem that either Blu-ray has to do some catching up very quickly. But we got the strange feeling that HD DVD has won the format war already, at least in the p*o*r*n industry." HAHAHAHAHAHA! oh....and http://www.tvpredictions.com/adulthddvd011107.htm ok....enuff with the Audult Entertain Business... Now here's the fresh news for the LG combo player... http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5670 Let me give you an idea what you'll be reading inside.... "iHD or "interactive High Definition" provides interactive features for HD DVDs. In other words, the BH100 will be able to play HD DVD movies just fine, but all interactive menus and special features (PIP, bookmarks, downloads/updates) will be unavailable to the customer. Because of this omission, the BH100 will not receive certification from the DVD Forum -- and without certification, that means that the player cannot be advertised and sold as an HD DVD player." Well u guys can read the whole thing in the website :-) OOHH OOOHHH DID I MENTION, THAT LG MIGHT GET SUED FOR THIS TOO?!?!?!????"} |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 20 Registered: Dec-06 |
Damn I just can't stay away from this place.... Rant of the day...... http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=20692&hed=HD-DVD+and+Blu-Ray%3A+DOA&sec tor=Industries&subsector=EntertainmentAndMedia OK so they're claiming that Physical Medias are DOA...ok I can see why....but I don't think that's happening! I mean, it's nice that you can have movies at ur finger tips...just press and bam, it's on ur screen. But comon! In the future, maybe 10-20 years from now, sure it'd be a good idea because storage will be massive, internet speed will be a lot faster and....even then, I don't know if I would like the idea....just my thoughts...... |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 22 Registered: Jun-06 |
Thomas: re 150 inch : yeah i had to order it custom, they dont build em like that usually id put pics up .. but im not sure how to do that.. its not that special.. most people have atleast a 92 - 100 n something. mine is justa little bigger.. its a little taller than i stand which i stand 6'1 feet and long as hell.. ;) surrounded by 8 speakers (sub included) so its 7.1 and hd ready.. ;) just becomign more and more unclear as to which system i want to run it.. im probably just going to buy a comp and connect it to that.. Let me get this straight. You're telling me that HD DVD will be obsolete in 3 to 5 years but Blu-ray won't? I think you overestimate the usefulness of that extra space that Blu-ray claims it has over HD DVD. im not saying both wont be obsolete, but of the two, we (the buying public) i believe will be suffering less with 200 gigs than we will with the paultry 51 gigs.. as for storage, a 200 gig disk will remain useful for a long long time.. trust me on this.. the other reason is the better bandwidth.. when tweaked this bandwidth could be increased.. where as this just wont happen with the thickness of hd-dvd products.. and if it does .. it will be very negeligable.. I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that discs in general will be made obsolete by some type of direct data service - either downloading HD movies to your home network, or connecting to streaming service like on-demand. there again.. is another reason i would want blu ray to win.. cause people are going to want to do what with their movies theydownloaded??? riiight.. back em up.. to watch again.. well what better device to do it on than a device with capacity (eventually) of 200 gigs.. ??? side note.. i officially am testing out a yes.. 2.5 meg PER SECOND!!! not per minute connection right now! ;) (25 meg throughput) so to support your argument yes.. direct movies are comign for sure.. at my speed.. 1 gig per give or take 10 minutes it is very concievable to instantly download and watch a movie real time..even possibly a hd movie.. though it would be much tougher.. this speed is ideal for regular dvd which in 40 minutes of watching teh movie id have downloaded essentialy the rest of the film.. If the difference between Blu-ray and HD DVD were hundreds of gigs, maybe Sony would have a superior enough product to make a difference while discs are in use. However, that's not the case. actually correction it is signifigant. blu ray is currently testing a 200 gig 1 sided disk.. where as hd dvd is testing a 51 gig one side disk.. thats a whopping 150 gig difference.. With the current length of movies, current length of the average collection of bonus material, and current compression technologies, Blu-ray falls short of gaining a useful advantage over HD DVD. true .. with current length of movies.. but your still ignoring tv series which are coming out by the hordes.. plus your forgetting about the pontential if given to teh studios what they would do with teh extra data.. if you give the studioes exactly what they need, they will use id accordingly... but if you give them extra space.. like my example with vhs to dvd.. the extras will come.. again i ask.. which do you think came first.. teh capcity for menu options etc.. or the idea..i can tell you right now it was teh capacity.. cause the first dvds out there were very very simple movies that were ported over to the new format of the time.. but as studioes realized they had extra space and potential they started puting extras in, trailer, alternate endings, naratives etc.. extra space is always useful.. extra potential is always useful.. why would you buy a car that .. will just get you to work and back.. butnot have any potential for anything else.. i would rather get a car that can get me back and home from work ANd maybe have some speed.. or room in th back to carry some luggage if i ever move.. or whatever.. hd dvd is like those bubble cars out there.. Just -.. goood... enough.. and thats fine.. but id rather drive a fully loaded cadillac with a trunk and extra seats for friends.. Pair this with Sony's problematic launch of Blu-ray, and it becomes clear that HD DVD is on more stable ground there is definetly some truth to this statement.. however i believe blu ray camp was rushed to put their product out as fast as hd - dvd.. adn that has led to problems.. new technology in hd dvd camp is far a few between.. so for them to get their product out sooner was not a big deal.. but sony is now successfully releaseing movies on double layer 50 gig discs so thats atleast a step in the stable direction.. I believe I mentioned that I put Blu-ray and HD DVD up against each other on the same home theater system - with the same movies. There was a very noticable difference, and HD DVD looked better than Blu-ray (less artifacts and more accurate color). Search around, you'll find multiple accounts of these findings. As for Blu-ray now using MPEG4 and VC1, the proof will be in the pudding, and there will always be those movies that are in MPEG2 dragging down the collection. well i have serached.. but i havent found multiple accounts of this, i have found reports the lead to this .. but none that conclusively state this.. and rightly so as its hard to compare early early adoption technology as other reviews have said that there have yet to be truly a apples to apples comparsison, one enlightend individual which i whole heartedly agree said that the only way to tell would be to put em both in a computer and judge with a true color crt monitor, after each movie had been ripped with no compression..also you have to remember you were most likely comparing mp2 versus a better compression technology of mp4 or vc1.. and yes these older movies may be dont look as great.. but at teh expense of a few movies im still willing to forego and move on.. Because of the PS3. Nevermind that the PS3 is a next generation gaming console that would sell like hotcakes regardless. Pure rubbish, Sony. Shame on you. Thomas.. why do i get teh feeling that you are a person who believes things should be fair.. and just.. nothing in life is fair man.. every company does its own dirty trick to win.. it just happens that Sony's dirty trick happened to be the more successful one.. all these companies are dispicable.. you lament on how shameful sony is.. and you are backing hd dvd with whome associate with Microsfot and intel.. the two dirtiest players (and apple too) of all time.. when a actual goverment steps in to try and break you up.. then one knows the company is doing some shady work.. my point is this.. dont wag the finger at Sony when Microsoft and panasonic are just as bad and worse.. the hd dvd camp has NO HIGHER MORAL GROUND.. Mohaimen Kazi: regarding dual sided disks vs dual format supporting hard ware.. i actually like both.. if you look up my post from earlier on here.. youll see i mentioned that as my wish list.. however iam siding with Thomas as id most likely get a dual support hard ware as i see blu ray and hd dvd becoming like dvd-r and dvd+r where the industry is better off just supporting both.. and that way also if you buy ALot of movies then the price per unit goes down and down the more movies you buy.. instad of a little premium you pay per movie you buy.. as that would be infinite.. this also puts people back in control.. if you want a superior storage disk.. go buy a blu ray.. if you just want to back up a movie.. then grab a hd - dvd.. i dunno.. id still rather buy a blu ray and back up 4 or 5 movies on one.. but thats just me.. im obsessed with having as much iformation in one place as possible..i hate dozens of discs ever darn place.. I also think you d be surprised about prices of players.. players come down like 50-70% in price where as dvds have relativly remained the same price .. forever.. th enew releases are always 20 something bux.. then when they get old.. theydrop to the teens.. i dotn see this changing.. where as older hardware WILL change dramatically in price.. i can buy a dvd burner for 50 bux?? or less.. i think the studios dont care which format is released.. thats not their problem.. and nor should it ever be.. they just want to make sales period.. irespective of the format.. theysell content.. not content players or media... so to make a tripple layer disc is great.. it will prob have some growing pains at first.. but once they have stream lined it.. the price premium will come down.. and everyoen will be happy.. even the lowly dvd watchers.. They were thinking "oh if people have blu-ray players at home, it'll give them a reason to go out and buy movies, but that didn't work out as planned. On the other hand, where more than 100K 360 HD drives were sold, strictly to watch movie. U know??? So that whole article w/ Sony, just ignore...they're trying to get attention from people. They know they're losing so they'l do anything to make it look like they're not hurting inside. uhm... if you have a choice of which movie to buy.. and one is a blu ray and the other is a hd dvd and withone you have to go chalk out 400 bux.. and the other you have to do nothing cause you alreayd have a player at home.. i wonder what the majority of people will do.. despite what you say.. this may not be a killing move.. but it should be awarded as a successful strike against the hd camp.. both of these people have been war-ing to get as many units in each house as fast as possible.. sony did it with ps3.. hd-dvd did it by coming out early and directly manipulating the market by selling their units at a loss.. both sides are very manipulative and just as bad as each other.. So that whole article w/ Sony, just ignore...they're trying to get attention from people. They know they're losing so they'l do anything to make it look like they're not hurting inside. is Sony really hurting?? The Blu-ray Disc has gained a large amount of support in the corporate world[44], with companies like Apple Computer, Dell, and Panasonic supporting it. The support of 7 Hollywood majors studios (U.S. share 90% in 2005) has already been won. 5 studios (50%) on the inside are currently exclusive to Blu-ray Disc.ref: Wikipedia with stats like that.. i wonder how long it will be that hd dvd has more titles available, all i konw is this.. in CAnada, there is currently not even a hd dvd burner for sale..no one at the computer stores even talks about it.. they look at youfunny if you mention it.. cause in computer land tech is a very important currency.. and when one is clearly better technically, it wins.. the wars in graphic cards etc in computer land are vicious.. and are all baised on technicals.. which card has the most frames.. the best antialiasing. etc.. no hd dvd burner but there has been a blu ray burner for months.. dell, sony and hp the three biggest computer distributers are all on board for bluray.. it looks as if the computer industry (which should not be un estimated) is gearing up to adopt the higher capacity medium.. maybe this will offset the p()rn industry.. or maybe the p()rn industry will do hd dvd and comps and the rest of main stream movies wil adopt blu ray.. OOHH OOOHHH DID I MENTION, THAT LG MIGHT GET SUED FOR THIS TOO?!?!?!????" i believe the dvd forum made an error of giving the title to the hd-dvd camp and is trying to keep itself important by suggesting such things.. how pathetic.. anyways .. looks liek tis a bug they have to fix and presto.. But comon! In the future, maybe 10-20 years from now, sure it'd be a good idea because storage will be massive, internet speed will be a lot faster and.... actually youd be surprised.. i currently have 25 meg throughput.. i can download a gig every 7-10 minutes.. so in approx 3-4 hours i could have the highdef movie i wanted.. right now if they were offering it.. Pamela: regarding side by side comparing.. people on here claim to have compared two devices side by side i dont know how they got aholdof two devices and did this or what would hvae inclined them to do so.. but apparently Thomas and Mohaimen both think Hd-dvd is better.. however its unclear at this point which codec the bluray was encoded in... and what players they used and what problems or inconsistancies there may have been.. check out this site to see the backers .. if not in your living room.. atleast in your office it looks like blu ray it going to get a strong foot hold..specially with solid backers like hp and Dell.. http://news.com.com/FAQ+HD+DVD+vs.+Blu-ray/2100-1041_3-5886956.html read this to dispell any rumours.. this is by far the best more comprehensive, unbiased, non propoganda non corrupted review out there.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 21 Registered: Dec-06 |
Ahhhh Charles!!!! Man why the ignorance???? Comon! 2.5MB/sec? Great! I get that myself! Sometiems even faster. But wait, waiting 3-4 hours to finish downloading a movie??? Yeah, make sure you have a lot of pop corn ready at ur house when you invite ur friends over......or maybe, ur friends can come over to my house and watch 2 movies w/ me while ur sitting there downloading your movie??? Ok...let before I start with my other rant about you....PLEASE, STOP PULLING UP ARTICLES FROM OCTOBER 2005!!!!!!! This is 2007! and things have changed......a lot of things have changed. Just so you know, HP has a HD DVD writer out at the moment.....and speaking of at the moment.....the reason in Canada, people dont' have HD DVD writer is because IT JUST CAME OUT IN PRODUCTION!!! Hello?!?!?!? - I'm surprised u Canadians even know what Blu-Ray is??? As far as internet goes.....I doubt everyone in Canada has your 25meg speed...which I doubt very much that you have.....ok fine I give that to you...but how many Canadians....heck, even Americans have that speed???? No one's going to pay $100+ a month to get that type of service!!!! Like I said, there's a long wait for internet based movie broadcasting. I live right near Washington DC...the capital! People in major cities think just because they have internet....that everyone has it! O and did I mention that a lot of people still use those free dial ups! As for all that "space" space you claim for BR.....uhh "TESTING".....let them first come out with a 200 gig disk first then we'll talk about it....and that's a whopping 149 gig shy, not 150! :-) lol j/k Ok, listen Charles, first let Sony work on their codecs to be up to date because their ancient codec they're using...which is taking so much disk space. Then you want to talk about burning 4-5 movies in 1 disk.....and we already know that the crappy BR disks are so fragile...so think about it Charles....when that disk gets a scratch, there goes your 4-5 movies AT ONCE! Then you can rent ALL 4-5 of those movies and make more copies :-) Great idea there buddy :-) I really see your point now. How is Sony successful??? Their stupid PS3 wont' even work properly! So many of them have been sent out to get fixed! Yes, Sony was very sucessful there buddy. BTW, Panasonic and APPLE are both BR supporters! So what's ur point man??? So is Sony Hurting??? You bet they are! Do you see how Sony keeps claiming their "VICTORY"??? Do you ever see Toshiba going around saying "o yeah, we won".....no....it's other companies, even DVD Forum that claimed that HD DVD won the wor...p*o*r*n just proved it too. Wheather u watch it or not buddy.... Anywayz, enuff said....I'm out. Got work. Peace |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 22 Registered: Dec-06 |
A few links...... Oh man, Sony...they can't even get their BR working properly but look at what they wnat: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3156345 and http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8408.cfm Not that I'm complaining it's a bad idea...but will the studios support???? This is Sony knowing they're Stupid!: http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=3619 |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 23 Registered: Jun-06 |
Ahhhh Charles!!!! Man why the ignorance???? Comon! 2.5MB/sec? Great! I get that myself! Sometiems even faster. But wait, waiting 3-4 hours to finish downloading a movie??? Yeah, make sure you have a lot of pop corn ready at ur house when you invite ur friends over......or maybe, ur friends can come over to my house and watch 2 movies w/ me while ur sitting there downloading your movie??? i seriously dought you get that speed man.. i bet you get 2.5 meg throughput.. not actual speed.. barely anyone in the world gets speeds this fast..(specially usa.. trust me i used to work as a fiber optic splicer and usa subcontracts out to canada all teh time cause you dont have qualified technicians.. or you do but you have a shortage of them.. anyways.. we used to take pictures of your setups and boxes to bring back to canada for everyoen to have a laugh.. ) but anyways.. yes i agree it isnt quite ready .. it still on teh slow side.. but still do able.. if people are so eager to sign up to net flix and wait a day or two to get a movie.. people can wait 4 - 8 hours..(thats for hd movies.. for a normal dvd9 it would only take a hour or so..) easy.. you start it in the morn if you want a hd movie and watch it that night.. if its just a dvd9 you start it a hour or so ahead of time and by the time your guests get there yoru ready to go.. its called foresight..(just like popping the popcorn early) something alot of the posters on this site dont have cause they are blinded by their hate for Sony.. i wonder what all you would be saying if say if pioneer was the one developing this blu ray.. the reason in Canada, people dont' have HD DVD writer is because IT JUST CAME OUT IN PRODUCTION!!! yeah well why did it Just come out in pre production?!?! blu ray recorders have been out for half a year.. and hd dvd has way less technology to master than bd..soiunds like a executive decision i think they feel they can never win against bd in the computer market as theykonw how cut through the computer market is for specs.. so they havent even bothered.. why else would it have taken them SOO long to even start one?!?! they quite smartly are very picking their battles, and theyknow they wont win with educated consumers like so in teh computer industry.. but they will in the general movie sector where people arent necessarily concerns with specs rather they just want a pretty picture ona screen as cheap as they can get it.. thats why hd dvd is doing everything the way they are doing it.. thats also why they are not declaring themselves the winners.. cause they arent! they from the get go new it was unlikely they would get the majorityof the market so they are just shooting for a 1/3of the market.. it reeks of it though their marketing practicies.. As far as internet goes.....I doubt everyone in Canada has your 25meg speed...which I doubt very much that you have.....ok fine I give that to you...but how many Canadians....heck, even Americans have that speed???? No one's going to pay $100+ a month to get that type of service!!!! believe it or not canada has some of teh most sophisticated communications technology of the world.. German is close . only cause everythign was destroyed there so they could lay down all new fibre etc.. Canada just didnt have anything so we could do that.. we have 95% dark fibre right now.. which means if we lit them up we would all have screaming bandwidth.. anyways im digressing.. poitn being.. everyone in vancouver and surround area here in canada has access to teh 25 meg through put.. yes the price is steep.. i admit..but if someone was to offer a service of streaming movies 99 bux for all the movies you can stream isnt that bad of a deal.. we are talking 30 hd mvies or 90+ dvd9's a month.. way better value than netflix or its canadian equilvilent.. on teh dvd level that a buck a movie.. O and did I mention that a lot of people still use those free dial ups! there are always going to be broke people out there.. this is moot.. As for all that "space" space you claim for BR.....uhh "TESTING".....let them first come out with a 200 gig disk first then we'll talk about it... well speakign of uuuhh testing.. hd dvd doesnt have its 51 gig yet something bd has NOW.. so ill see that when it comes out.. the point it we both know they are going to come out.. if theyhvae done it in the lab.. and their market demand.. it will come out.. Ok, listen Charles, first let Sony work on their codecs to be up to date because their ancient codec they're using...which is taking so much disk space ANcient HISTORY.. for someone who is complaining about my one reference to a 2005 article.. look up teh direct side by side comparsion on wikipedia!!(up to date by the day) they both have teh same codecs?!?! same resolution, same aacs protection in fact now sony is becoming more lax.. which gives thema brownie point for me.. so you tell me how one video can look so awful next to another with exactly the same specs for building each one?!?!? Then you want to talk about burning 4-5 movies in 1 disk.....and we already know that the crappy BR disks are so fragile...so think about it Charles....when that disk gets a scratch, there goes your 4-5 movies AT ONCE! Then you can rent ALL 4-5 of those movies and make more copies :-) Great idea there buddy :-) I really see your point now. speaking again of outdated mis-information.. FOR ALL YOU NET FLIX WORRIED PEOPLE let me dispell all the myths.. Hard-coating technology Because the Blu-ray Disc standard places the data recording layer close to the surface of the disc, early discs were susceptible to contamination and scratches and had to be enclosed in plastic caddies for protection. The consortium worried that such an inconvenience would hurt Blu-ray Disc's market adoption.[4] Blu-ray Discs now use a layer of protective material on the surface through which the data is read. Both Sony and Panasonic replication methods include proprietary hard-coat technologies. Sony's rewritable media are sprayed with a scratch-resistant and antistatic coating.[5] TDK also announced a way to remedy the problem in January 2004 with the introduction of a clear polymer coating that gives Blu-ray Discs substantial scratch resistance. The coating was developed by TDK and is called "Durabis". It allows BDs to be cleaned safely with only a tissue. The coating is said to successfully resist "wire wool scrubbing" according to Samsung Optical technical manager Chas Kalsi. It is not clear, however, whether discs will use the Durabis coating or if the use of the coating will prove too expensive. Verbatim announced in July 2006 that their Blu-ray Disc recordable and rewritable discs would incorporate their hard-coat ScratchGuard technology which protects against scratches, abrasion, fingerprints, and traces of grease SOURCE - WIKIPEDIA How is Sony successful??? Their stupid PS3 wont' even work properly! So many of them have been sent out to get fixed! Yes, Sony was very sucessful there buddy. BTW, Panasonic and APPLE are both BR supporters! So what's ur point man??? k why r u bringing in sony and their play statins 3s? we are discussing hd dvd discs vs blu ray.. So is Sony Hurting??? You bet they are! Do you see how Sony keeps claiming their "VICTORY"??? Do you ever see Toshiba going around saying "o yeah, we won".....no....it's other companies, even DVD Forum that claimed that HD DVD won the wor...p*o*r*n just proved it too. Wheather u watch it or not buddy.... i think we both know there is no industry big enough now adays to defeat all other industries.. yes even the p()rn industry can not compete with mainstream movies and the entire computer industry.. if anything they will help solidify the smaller market share hd-dvd is eventually going to end up with.. on a side note.. Hello?!?!?!? - I'm surprised u Canadians even know what Blu-Ray is??? dont go there about usa vs canada.. stay on topic.. your need to lace your replies with insults shows that you cant counter even half of my arguments.. all you can do is insult sony.. or me.. or my country.. or bring up ancient history.. of the first bd mpeg 2 encoded ones. or teh 2004 non protected bd discs.. lame.. all you have so far is subjective circumstancial evidence as to quality difference with no technical reason to back it up, reverse propoganda for hd dvd same as which you complain against sony.. and un rational hate for sony.. come one.. give me some meat here.. a real reason other than speculation to not choose bd.. and remember .. the past does not equal the future.. if it did.. everythign you ever failed at first.. would fail forever in the future.. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 23 Registered: Dec-06 |
Charles...this is my last reply to you for good....I know there's no point in arguing with you at all....think what you want to think but you'll never convince me or anyone else here that Sony has a superior technology over Toshiba....as far as the new format goes....and for the record...it took me 11 sec to download Itunes (36+ MB at a little more than 3MBPS)....and by that, I mean MEGABYTE...not MEGABITS. I've made my poinets....and only you argue w/ everyone here...not the other way around. So thank you and good luck....bly-ray forum is waiting for you. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 21 Registered: Feb-06 |
}re 150 inch : yeah i had to order it custom, they dont build em like that usually id put pics up .. but im not sure how to do that.. its not that special.. most people have atleast a 92 - 100 n something. mine is justa little bigger I must be missing something here. Most people do NOT have 92-100 inch televisions. The average consumer is just now replacing their 27-36" CRT sets with 40-60" widescreen sets. So you have this gigantic TV and fast internet connection but no means to take a picture of your setup? there again.. is another reason i would want blu ray to win.. cause people are going to want to do what with their movies theydownloaded??? riiight.. back em up.. to watch again.. well what better device to do it on than a device with capacity (eventually) of 200 gigs.. ??? First of all, there are no 200GB Blu-ray discs sitting on store shelves, so until they are, they have no place in a comparative discussion on usable technology. Besides, both sides are posting ludicrous gains in testing with multi-layered discs. Ritek was just boasting that they're testing 10-layer HD DVDs. It's all nonsense to me until it's in my hands. Secondly, as has been mentioned exhaustively, full length movies using H.264 won't fill even the smallest HD DVD or Blu-ray capacity discs, so backing up to a 200GB disc is unnecessary. true .. with current length of movies.. but your still ignoring tv series which are coming out by the hordes.. plus your forgetting about the pontential if given to teh studios what they would do with teh extra data.. if you give the studioes exactly what they need, they will use id accordingly... but if you give them extra space.. like my example with vhs to dvd.. the extras will come As an fan of several television series', I'm not forgetting about the potential of the high definition formats. However, these shows will almost certainly always be released in season sets as they are now for production and marketing reasons. As stated above, I will only discuss the usefulness of capacities currently available... in which case, Blu-ray still doesn't offer much of an advantage over HD DVD, even with tv season sets. The same holds true for movie extras. Studios may release a home video with more extras because they have more space, but there are still limits to this. Just because they can put 30 hours of extras on a disc doesn't mean it's lucrative. More extras = higher cost, and people are only willing to spend so much on a home video. Thomas.. why do i get teh feeling that you are a person who believes things should be fair.. and just.. nothing in life is fair man.. every company does its own dirty trick to win Oh, I'm well aware that corporations play dirty, but Sony is playing exceptionally dirty in this format war, and Toshiba has been far too passive IMO. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 24 Registered: Dec-06 |
Haha Thomas....I ws gonna ask the same thing about the 150" but figured oh we...maybe he's not lying....now watch him google "home theater" and post a pic from there...I for one will post a pic or two tomorrow...hope you guys dont' mind....going off topic for a moment.... As for the claim of space....I can understand why they do. Technically, if one layer can hold a certain ammount, then double, triple, and 4 times...u know....it's possible...BUT....to make it work, that's a whoooole different story. So yea, I'm sure if Toshiba wanted to, they can make as large as disk...or something very close to it with layers upon layers...(mmmmm....cake!!!)...sorry...but seriously, what's the point for now??? When time comes for the need of that space, they'll have something new. Just because technology is getting more advanced, doesn't mean we need 20 year advanced technology right now. Anywayz guys...if I find something exciting...I'll post again. Cya for now |
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New member Username: Audio_highMountain View, CA USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-05 |
All the bickering and horrific spelling aside, early on I thought Blu-ray had the edge, but now if I had to bet it would be on HD-DVD, and that is also the format I'd rather win for a number of reasons. It also seems to be the favored format for the adult video industry now. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/11/213258 I spoke with a number of producers recently and though some plan to support both formats (because of the number of PS3s that will be out there), most are starting with HD-DVD or will only support HD-DVD. This is in large part because of the manufacturing costs of Blu-ray. Michael Audio High www.audiohigh.com |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 24 Registered: Jun-06 |
Charles...this is my last reply to you for good....I know there's no point in arguing with you at all....think what you want to think but you'll never convince me or anyone else here that Sony has a superior technology over Toshiba.... 1. speak for yourself Mohaimen, 2. you act as if im being beligerant and all i have done from day one is debated teh hard and fast facts.. youshould try it.. and only you argue w/ everyone here...not the other way around. So thank you and good luck. everyone being you and Thomas? quit using words like everyone..and anyone.. everyone doesnt necessarily agree with you.. Thomas: I must be missing something here. Most people do NOT have 92-100 inch televisions. The average consumer is just now replacing their 27-36" CRT sets with 40-60" widescreen sets. So you have this gigantic TV and fast internet connection but no means to take a picture of your setup? i have to host it and im not intersted in taking a picture of it.. and yes you are missing somting..when did i ever say it was a tv?? there currently at least to my knowledge does not exist a 150 inch tv screen.. i have a projection set up.. my projection screen which has a gain of 3.0 is 150inchs.. Besides, both sides are posting ludicrous gains in testing with multi-layered discs. Ritek was just boasting that they're testing 10-layer HD DVDs. It's all nonsense to me until it's in my hands. well that said, its still in the works.. and id rather have a 10 layer blu ray with a blu rays much higher transfer rate than hd's think about it.. in the future it is invevitable that we will eventually use the data.. that we arent using it now is ridiculous.. back 4 years ago people were measuring web pages basied on how fast a 28.8 modem woudl load it up.. now no one cares we are constantly moving up and up more and more data.. why would you want to settle for something that is good enough for right now.. when you could get somethign that will be alot better.. its like that other analagy i used before about the traffic on a road that is backed up.. and the city puts in one extra lane in that makes it just good enough.. why would nt you just go in and put 3 lanes on eachside anfd forget about it.. now that said.. i already konw your argument. youll say that hd dvd will get its 10 layers..etc.. and then thedifference will be null.. wel maybe and thats open to debate.. but will aaaall that data on there.. people are going to want to either copy it off as quickly as possible or burn it on as quickly as possible.. and Sony has a significant lead on bandwidth... which again is why im on board with blu ray.. Secondly, as has been mentioned exhaustively, full length movies using H.264 won't fill even the smallest HD DVD or Blu-ray capacity discs, so backing up to a 200GB disc is unnecessary. it has also been said exhaustively that the future potential of blu ray is greater than that of hd dvd, and if that is the case and all you need is a "just enough space" then stick with a normal 10 layer dvd.. there is not reason to go to either hd dvd or blu ray.. a 10 layer dvd will out put 43 gigs.. plenty for all hd movies.. but people want more.. they expect more.. that why we are moving to a blu ray lazer.. and thats why i like blu ray... it has more and will offer more in the future.. now whether what is offered is useuful or whether it will make a huge difference is up for debate.. but id still rather go for a little more cost for significantly more performance.. As stated above, I will only discuss the usefulness of capacities currently available... in which case, Blu-ray still doesn't offer much of an advantage over HD DVD, even with tv season sets. true... For NOW that has been teh fundamental difference between you and i.. is i want blu ray to win because i see alot more potential for it in the future.. YES!.. right now there is probably not much sense in or much advantage, but in the future the minor advantage will work out to a much greater advantage.. but still currently 30 gigs to 50..youd be surprised also as to how many less discs one needs when recording episodes.. it addes up over teh discs.. Studios may release a home video with more extras because they have more space, but there are still limits to this. Just because they can put 30 hours of extras on a disc doesn't mean it's lucrative. More extras = higher cost, and people are only willing to spend so much on a home video. extras doesnst always = more money.. movies with loads of extras today are roughly the same prices as theywere when it was just a straight movie on a vhs..and just cause you cant imagine what extra they will put.. doesnt mean they cant or wont find a ingenious way to use it.. (look at "Abram" 's post way above "I'd much rather wait for Blu-Ray. I work in high def video creation, and the extra space never goes to waste") i bet back when you had a huge vhs collection you would hvae said the same thing.. "bah we haev enough space.. what do we need 4 gigs for.. this cheaper hd-vhs will do.." howeve i do get what your saying.. yeah great. .give em more space.. but how much more.. another 10 gigs..? big whoop what are they giong to do with that.. and i could agree with you on that point.. but.. quite frankly i think youd be surprised.. specially when each layer comes out and 10 gigs turns into 50 gigs difference and then a 100 gigs difference.. but maybe im wrong.. maybe it wont make a difference in main stream movies.. but in the pc world it will make ahuge difference..and thats a bigger and bigger market every year.. Oh, I'm well aware that corporations play dirty, but Sony is playing exceptionally dirty in this format war, and Toshiba has been far too passive IMO. my apologies, toshiba selling units at a loss to gain market share is very up and up.. anyways. your point is..? cause they are playing dirty reject their better technology? let me summarize.. after all this debate.. i think we can boil it down to two aspects..let me know if you agree or disagree. there are really only two fundamental differences between hd and bluray 1. extra space.. : true bd has more space.. but do we need it? at what cost to consumers? and will it make any difference having that extra space.. (i think teh point of difference between us is that i think it will make a difference..specially in the future..and basically you dont..or if you do.. you dont think its worth the production cost or extra cost in units) 2. bandwidth: blu ray has more, means faster copying of data off, faster seak times etc, and same question applies.. at what cost, to production etc.. and to what advantage.. will people in general know the difference? do we need teh extra speed.. will hd's bandwidth last us till this format is obsolete.. and somethign way better is ushered in. like crystal data..(again.. i think it will make a difference.. and you dont.. but i believe time will be the only settling of this debate as neither of us have a crystal ball) all questions i dont konw the answer to.. but as i have said before ill say again. i will always be on teh side of the better technology.. to me an extra 100 gigs of pontential for space is huge.. not to mention teh extra tweaking for bandwidth. allowing faster recording times and read times.. interesting article for reference the same technology is avail for hd dvd and blu ray.. equalling 250 gigs for blu ray and 150 for hd dvd.. 100 gig difference. http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=37026 |
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New member Username: TxpamiamHouston, TX USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Jan-07 |
Help me think this out - - The Java thing still bugs me...as you know Java will continue to revise... 1) so will disks with older Java versions become obsolete (backwards compatible is bunk - something always goes amiss)? 2) or...will older players no longer play the newer disks 3) will the features you bought the disc for...get lost in the translations... 4) will the firmware and software need upgrades and will they crash? Arrgh...  |
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New member Username: TxpamiamHouston, TX USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-07 |
Mohaimen - to which studio type are you referring? (pro, home -- audio, video, dub or edit suite, etc)? Mohaimen Kazi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A few links...... Not that I'm complaining it's a bad idea...but will the studios support???? |
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New member Username: IcreatedesignPost Number: 4 Registered: Dec-06 |
The only thing blu-junk has got for itself is more storage capacity. Whooop-eeee! HD-DVD will be enough for the studios. I do not need a gazillion extra features on a movie. If i do its only a few that are actually good. Most of movies extra features are boring and pointless. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 25 Registered: Dec-06 |
Pamela, I was saying...BR is trying to make it, so people can copy their movies, save it into a hd or make backup coppies... "Sony executives told onlookers that future Blu-Ray disks will be a bit more lax on the DRM standards and allow you to copy the contents of the disk to a hard drive and/or media device for alternative forms of viewing." ....so my point was that I dont know if the studios, that are currently supprting BR will continue to do so because they might not want to take a risk of their content being coppied....even once, as backups....because once there's a copy of it, there will be many more.... Randy....welcome to the club.... Will bring more updates soon guys |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 22 Registered: Feb-06 |
yes you are missing somting..when did i ever say it was a tv?? there currently at least to my knowledge does not exist a 150 inch tv screen.. i have a projection set up.. my projection screen which has a gain of 3.0 is 150inchs.. HAHAHA... yes, I'm aware that there are no 150" television SETS on the market. A slip of the fingers, but set or projector... it makes no difference. My comment about missing something was regarding everyone having 92-100 inch screens. I'll give you the benefit and assume that you meant everyone that has front projection... but that's a select few. A select few will not decide the fate of this format war. well that said, its still in the works.. and id rather have a 10 layer blu ray with a blu rays much higher transfer rate than hd's think about it.. in the future it is invevitable that we will eventually use the data.. the future, the future, the future. The problem with talking about the future is that it's not predictable. Sure a 200GB disc sounds great right now, but it's not on store shelves. You can't use it. In a few years we could be using a completely different type of storage... who knows. Don't take me the wrong way here, Charles... I'm a tech junkie and early adopter just like you. If Blu-ray wins this war, I'm not going to fold my arms and pout. I'll do whatever needs to be done to watch my movies in superior quality. I'm here only to put myself in the shoes of the average consumer and discuss which format I think will win and why. extras doesnst always = more money You can buy The Lord of the Rings trilogy as a theatrical release box set for $25. The special edition with added scenes and loads of extras is $65. Why? Because people have to be paid to produce that footage, not because there are twice as many discs. my apologies, toshiba selling units at a loss to gain market share is very up and up.. Uhhh... yes, as a matter of fact that is a principle of business. There aren't many companies out there that don't take a loss to make future gains. Sony did the same by selling their PS3 unit for $600. A standalone player (no advanced gaming system attached) is $900. With newer technologies, the cost of producing the product often exceeds the consumer's willingness to spend, so companies have to take a hit to get consumers on board. What's NOT good business practice is outright lying to shake consumers up about which format has won the war. I brought it up not because I wanted to spank Sony for telling lies, but more because I personally feel that it makes them look desperate, which is worth debate. after all this debate.. i think we can boil it down to two aspects..let me know if you agree or disagree. extra space. bandwidth. Not entirely. I agree that these are the main differentiating factors between the two specs. Cost doesn't seem to be much of an issue anymore. However, there's still that difference in quality. I know, H.264 and VC1 Blu-ray movies are on the way, but they're not here yet. When they're on store shelves, we'll all have a chance to compare, and they'll likely look the same. Until then, HD DVD's library is of higher quality. Forgot to post links last time: http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/trainingday.html http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technology/archives/2006/08/03/bluray_versus_hd_dvd_ first_headtohead_comparisons.html |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 26 Registered: Dec-06 |
Sup Tom? Ok here are 2 links I have for you to check out. I'm sure the 2nd link would be a bit more interesting to everyone..... 1. When I mentioned about the LG player, certain idiot thought it was a hoax....but it's now official that it will not be sold until HDi is supported. Here's the link man.... http://hdtv.engadget.com/2007/01/14/lgs-bh100-hybrid-blu-ray-hd-dvd-player-unabl e-to-be-sold-sans/ 2. Ok so I heard you guys were talking about 10 layers of disk space....well I wasnt' sure if you're talking about this but here's the article...It seems like Ritek is already working on this project..... Ritek boasting ten-layer HD DVD / Blu-ray discs? http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/12/ritek-boasting-ten-layer-hd-dvd-blu-ray-dis cs/ |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 23 Registered: Feb-06 |
Ok so I heard you guys were talking about 10 layers of disk space....well I wasnt' sure if you're talking about this but here's the article...It seems like Ritek is already working on this project..... Ritek boasting ten-layer HD DVD / Blu-ray discs? Yeah, that's the article I was referring to. Next week it'll be 100. Hahaha. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 27 Registered: Dec-06 |
I am very sure that 10 layers is enough space for them to put a whole season in 1 disk...don't u think??? |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 28 Registered: Dec-06 |
Ok....just got an update that Xbox 360 HD DVD drive has gone from 42k to 92k and now is officially 100k......and climbing! yay! |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 24 Registered: Feb-06 |
I am very sure that 10 layers is enough space for them to put a whole season in 1 disk...don't u think??? More than likely enough for a full season and extras. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 25 Registered: Feb-06 |
"Ok....just got an update that Xbox 360 HD DVD drive has gone from 42k to 92k and now is officially 100k......and climbing! yay!" What's your source? |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 26 Registered: Feb-06 |
92k HD DVD add-ons sold is still a far cry from the reported 687k PS3 units sold to-date. However, at least those buying HD DVD add-on units will definitely be purchasing movies, as that's the whole reason to buy the unit. The same can't be said for for the PS3. As Time Warner CEO Richard Parsons puts it, "Do I think that the game console platform is really going to drive the conversion? I don't think so. People get those things to play games, not watch movies." At this point, looking at the number of players sold will no longer be accurate, so it now comes down to how fast the discs are flying off the shelves. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 29 Registered: Dec-06 |
I need a shource??? Ahh Thomas! You hurt me!!! lol j/k Sorry, here are the sources I have gathered: http://news.spong.com/article/11504?cb=238 "42,000 of the 360 peripherals were sold in the US in November 2006 (its first month of sale). This was followed by 50,000 units being sold in December." "The Xbox 360 HD DVD drive has clocked up 92,000 sales in the US according to market researchers at the NPD group." Ok....then.......... http://www.pro-g.co.uk/news/08-01-2007-4419.html "On the HD DVD front Adams reports that 120,000 units of standalone players have been sold, but this has been eclipsed by the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player add-on, which has shifted an impressive 150,000 units since its launch late in 2006. Anyway, but the itWire link isn't working at the moment so that'd be my 3rd...... I didn't read the 2nd one too much, I just found it while looking for the itWire report.... |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 27 Registered: Feb-06 |
"I need a shource??? Ahh Thomas! You hurt me!!! lol j/k " Hehehe... was just curious, but I did end up finding the same articles, and forgot to include them for the record. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 30 Registered: Dec-06 |
Hee Tom, what HD player do you use?? Do you know how to hook up the 360 HD DVD player on ur computer??? |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 31 Registered: Dec-06 |
http://www.about-electronics.eu/2007/01/16/first-pirated-hd-dvd-movie-surfaces/ So...the HD version of Serenity has been on Bit Torrent site now. LOL Wow, they hacked hd-dvd a lot faster than DVD. I wonder if studios are going to be happy w/ this??? |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 28 Registered: Feb-06 |
I have a Toshiba HD-A1. I have seen articles on how to connect the X360 HD DVD unit to a computer, but then it was just connected directly to a HDTV. I'm assuming this is because newer video cards are HDCP compliant but most monitors (even new ones) are not. Here's one pretty detailed article: http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-computer-world/features/2170703/xbox360-hd-dvd-pc Looks like VGA works fine without HDCP support. Regarding the hacking, here's an article showing that Blu-ray seems to have been hacked as well. Didn't take very long for either format to be hacked. http://blog.digitalhomemag.com/page/digitalhome?entry=backup_blu_ray_movies_and |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 32 Registered: Dec-06 |
How do you hook the 360 drive directly to an HDTV??? I mean, I have an USB connection on my TV n all but is it possible to read and transfer to TV?? I'm confused. As far as the Article about Blu-Ray, I read that a looong time agon. Way before the HD DVD hack but didn't see anymore articles about it so I thought it was just a BS... Hmm...yea, no matter what they do, DRM will be broken, even faster now than before since DVD was the firsr in it's technology...and HD DVD/Blu-Ray is similar and people are used to breaking DVD codes....so HD content won't be too hard...IMO |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 29 Registered: Feb-06 |
To my knowledge you can't connect one directly to an HDTV (as you say)... I meant people are connecting them to their PCs and then connecting their PC to an HDTV via DVI (to HDMI if necessary) instead of a computer monitor. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 33 Registered: Dec-06 |
Uhh Thomas.... http://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=hd+dvd LOL I said WTF?!?!?!? There are 3 HD-DVD movies there. PItch Black, Riddick and Batman Begins! Dude, I gotta figure out how to work that BackHDDVD real fast! |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 30 Registered: Feb-06 |
Yeah, I saw the Blu-ray version of HOSTEL up on there as well. I suppose anyone with the ability to author HD DVD or Blu-ray discs will be able to have any movie from either collection on their format of choice... in theory of course. I don't currently have the ability to test that theory. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 34 Registered: Dec-06 |
man who cares really?? in a few months I'm going to buy another tv...this time, I'm thinking the Pioneer Elite Plasma. Though its pretty expensive....but my 2nd ch is the Sony XBR2. That's also a nice TV but all the new TVs coming out mid year is going to be crazy w/ 100,000:1 upto 1,000,000...that's right, you read it correctly, so yea buddy, lets see....Damn, I still need to post a pic of my screen...ehh well I might today.... |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 35 Registered: Dec-06 |
It's been a long time guys. What's up? I just been doing a recent count for movies from each of the studios for each sides of the format. I wanted to see who supported what more and who will support which format more in the future.... For HD fans, looks pretty good to me....so here goes... OK first I'll list HD DVD: New Lines: Current: 0, Coming out in 07: 16 Universal: Current: 56, Coming out in 07: 36 Warner: Current: 48, Coming out in 07: 46 Paramount: Current: 14, Coming out in 07: 28 Fox, Sony, BMG, BUENA VISTA, LIONES GATE, MGM, TriStar: Current: 0, Future: who knows???? ------------------------------------------------- Now it's Blu-Ray: New Lines: Current: 0, Coming out in 07: 1 Universal: Current: 0, Coming out in 07: 0 Warner: Current: 33, Coming out in 07: 21 Paramount: Current: 14, Coming out in 07: 7 Fox, Sony, BMG, BUENA VISTA, LIONES GATE, MGM, TriStar: Current: 81, Future: 106 As for Disney, they haven't made anything yet. Even though they're supporting Blu-Ray, I didn't see any title as this is a current list I have for both formats. Also, there are a few other smaller studios such as, Weinstein, Magnolia, HBO who are mostl supporting HD DVD as they have more content out and will have more things out in future. Magnolia and Weinstein will continue to have more out for HD DVD, but nothing noteded for Blu-Ray. But Only Discovery is coming out with 6 titles for BR. In conclusion: What seems to me is that, New Lines is pretty much sticking with HD DVD. Universal also. Warner's titles were less for BR and seem it'll make less BR conents this year, 21, compared to 46 for HD DVD. Paramount is 14/14 tie w/ both formats but for 07, it's only 7 BR titles VS 28 HD DVD titles. Seems to me that the studios, supporting both formats, are swinging more toward HD DVD..... If you need source, just look up both sources on www.en.wikipedia.org and they current titles for both formats. Thats where I got my list from. Thanks |
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New member Username: MikeymackinonPost Number: 2 Registered: May-06 |
If history repeats its self HD DVD will prevail. Personally I would like to see Blu Ray come out on top because it is better quality. Why would we allow our selves to use an inferior product. We could shave with a Gillette Mach 3 but why when we can shave with a Gillette Fusion, we would be hurting our selves if we did not use Blu Ray. The post about The sex industry intrigued me and I did some digging. The PROs are stating the sex industry will be the deciding factor of the dominate media. Meaning HD DVD will be the winner. Personally I am going to wait. I have like the Sony console in the past over the competitors but the PS3 will have to be better built then the PS2 to gain my trust again. My PS2 died after 1 and bit years of use. Microsoft can not make games, I know the target audience is America meaning Microsoft will have 101 Military games for future solders to be briefed about Americas next war. Instead of making new and exciting games titles like the Wii has created. If the console could prefect their flaws the public would be happy. PS3 is currently the best priced Blu Ray player but XBox has a well priced HD player attachment I am undecided as to which console to buy. I can not decide on a media Blu Ray or HD DVD. I guess the marketing world wants the public to spend twice as much money and buy both. As for the sex industry comment a lot of its business has moved away from the Video sales and become Internet sales. I am not proven the sex industry will be the deciding factor to the dominate media Blue Ray or HD DVD. Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 04:56 pm: ________________________________________ There's one thing this guy forgot to mention about the VHS vs BETA war that raged in the late 70's, early 80's. SEX, yes, it was the sex industry that tipped the balance in favor of the VHS format back then, because the company that was backing BETA back then didn't want any adult content to be produced and sold on his format. Read the history books people, and yes, that includes you too Sony, don't repeat the mistakes of the past or it could cost you dearly because in the end it wasn't about technological superiority, but the nature of the twisted human psyché. Such an interesting part of our techie past :P. http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/05/02/pornhd/index.php?lsrc=mwrss Just as in the 1980s, when the Betamax and VHS video formats were battling it out for supremacy, the sexgraphy industry will likely play a big role in determining which of the two blue-laser DVD formats — Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD — will be the winner in the battle to replace DVDs for high-definition content. http://www.lukeisback.com/essays/essays/size.htm Adult Video $1.8 billion Internet $1 billion Pay-Per-View $128 million Magazines $1 billion Total $2.6 billion to $3.9 billion Sources: Adams Media Research, Forrester Research, Veronis Suhler Communications Industry Report, IVD http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-5518574.html Adult Video News's Warren said HD DVD production would be a "fraction of a fraction of the price" of Blu-ray, but that the latter format could not be dismissed. |
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New member Username: EdrxparkPost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-06 |
Mike MacKinnon, I just want to know what your rationale in thinking BluRay is "better quality" than HDDVD? And don't say space, because space has nothing to do with quality. For example is a 120 gig Maxtor HDD better than an 80 gig Seagate HDD? So, what exactly do you mean by quality? |
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New member Username: MikeymackinonPost Number: 3 Registered: May-06 |
The video quality is higher, it has more detail. |
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New member Username: EdrxparkPost Number: 7 Registered: Jun-06 |
Wow, Mike MacKinnon you're really out of touch. I'm not gonna even touch this one. Anyone want to update him on VC-1 and Mpeg2 and all the head to head reviews on the quality of HDDVD and BluRay movies? |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 31 Registered: Feb-06 |
Mike, there's really no difference in quality between HD DVD and Blu-Ray. The difference between them is really in the amount of space that can be held per layer. With the number of layers that both camps are boasting, there looks to be plenty of space on either disc type. Blu-ray also claims higher bandwidth for both video and audio, however, the codecs used (both formats use MPEG-2, H.264, and VC1) are so efficient, that the bandwidth difference doesn't yield discernable results between the two formats. Perhaps the most notable argument is the side by side comparisons of HD DVD versus Blu-Ray, in which HD DVD currently provides a better picture. Blu-ray's first year of movies in production were using MPEG-2 compression instead of the newer codecs. To my knowledge, the reason for this hasn't been explained. |
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New member Username: MikeymackinonPost Number: 4 Registered: May-06 |
You have proven my point, HD has software to up code the HD format allowing it to produce an image equal to Blu Ray. Meaning Blue Ray is naturally producing a better image with no software requirements. This is why HD was released first for a better price and so on, it is a limited Blu Ray. What will happen in 1 year Ray has the potential to produce a stronger image. What will happen when Blue Ray 2 comes out? Will HD be left in the dust? Most likely, yes! The proof is in the pudding, Blu Ray does look better check it out on 1080p DLP. |
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New member Username: MikeymackinonPost Number: 5 Registered: May-06 |
PS Im over it |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 32 Registered: Feb-06 |
Mike, what on earth are you talking about? HD DVD and Blu-ray both use the same resolution source - both 1080p. Either you got some bad information or you misunderstood something. |
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New member Username: MikeymackinonPost Number: 6 Registered: May-06 |
HD is limited to what it can do. Blu Ray is the new standard, why would the public waste money on an inferior product. DVD and now Blue Ray. Not an advance DVD (HD DVD) Blue Ray is 2 steeps up. Both formats use blue laser technology, which has a shorter wavelength than red, allowing it to read the smaller digital data "spots" packed a lot more densely onto a standard-size disc. HD-DVD is capable of holding 30GB or a full-length high-definition movie, plus extras, on a prerecorded double-layer disc (compare that to today's limit of 9GB for standard double-layer DVDs). Blu-ray will go up to 50GB at launch, and Sony is reportedly working on a quad-layer 100GB disc. Cake-box me a stack of those, please. http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-8900_7-5600201-1.html more... http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-chronicles-of-a-futile-battle-Blu-Ray-vs-HD-DVD-631.shtml |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 33 Registered: Feb-06 |
Mike, merely stating that Blu-ray is "the new standard" or "two steps up" doesn't make it so. Provide some real meat to your arguments. HD DVD is every bit a step up from DVD as Blu-ray is... they're both 1080p, they both have similar feature sets for authoring (menu transparency, overlays, internet access capability), and they both support next generation encoding technologies. Nothing you've provided here backs up your claims. Are you somehow confusing HD upconverted DVD with HD DVD? I say that because of your comment about "up coding the HD format" in your earlier post. Upconverting DVD players will take a standard DVD (480p) and upconvert the image to 1080i, which obviously does not compare to Blu-ray. HD DVD on the other hand is a next generation format that delivers full 1080p HD video as mentioned above. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 36 Registered: Dec-06 |
Hey Mike...does this look familiar????  |
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New member Username: MikeymackinonPost Number: 7 Registered: May-06 |
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sony_bullshit |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 37 Registered: Dec-06 |
LOL this just made me laugh......... While everyone's been waiting for Apple to get around to adding Blu-ray players to their computers, MCE Technologies went ahead and did it themselves. Now you can add a Blu-ray burner to your already-expensive Mac Pro for another $700. Oh snap, Apple! Yes! Now you can finally take half your workday to backup some data rather than just get a backup HD! You can now watch a limited and mediocre selection of movies in HD right on your computer, while you comfortably sit in your office chair! You can… you can… oh, you know, whatever. So it's expensive and the benefits aren't all that great. What do you want from me? If you really want Blu-ray why don't you save $99 and go buy yourself one of the PS3s that are collecting dust on store shelves everywhere? — Adam Frucci here's the link too........ http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/2007/01/25/bluray_comes_to.html |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 34 Registered: Feb-06 |
Interesting... except Apple's cinema displays aren't HDCP compliant and they're DVI only. Unless I'm mistaken, that means you either can't watch Blu-ray movies on your new Mac Pro or you have to buy a monitor from someone other than Apple. =) I'm guessing that's why Apple hasn't released a version of their Mac Pro with Blu-ray. I saw some rumors that they're planning to introduce cinema displays with HDCP at some point. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 38 Registered: Dec-06 |
Yea and what bout Disney?? I don't see any Disney BR movies yet??? Did u read my post about the studios?? It's a few post up......check it if u havent.. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 35 Registered: Feb-06 |
Yeah, I saw that. I wonder what's keeping them. Backing up one of the formats is one thing... losing $ on the deal by actually releasing movies is another I guess. On a slightly related note, my HD-A1 upconverts Pixar movies beautifully because of the clarity of rendered animations on DVD. I'm not sure I'd spend the cash on an HD version even if I could. =) |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 39 Registered: Dec-06 |
we saw the gridiron gang on my projector over the weekend...I'll tell u, the 360 did a very good job, enough for me not able to tell that much difference...this is the first movie i felt this way about. Maybe it was the studio? I don't know but I have to hook up my Denon one day just to see if it was the hd drive or the studio work |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 40 Registered: Dec-06 |
oh BTW, i am very interested to buy a BR player. LOL dont' ask....seriously, only because it's on ebay for like around $300-$400.....and the movies I want from Sony aren't on HD DVD....but me and my friend just went to Circuit City again....and just couldn't convince myself after looking at the picture....but I think it might be the XBR2? Or could it be the Sony player?? |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 36 Registered: Feb-06 |
I can't imagine it's the XBR2. What were the problems you saw and what was playing? |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 41 Registered: Dec-06 |
man it was picture noise.....lots of artifacts.... Even when they play their 1080p thing that they shot, even that has picture noise and you can see it....I think it's the XBR2 bro |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 42 Registered: Dec-06 |
That's right bit*hes!!! http://hd.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=100209 HD DVD Wings again!!!! |
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New member Username: CerosPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 |
Posted by yoyoniner, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=769114&page=138&pp=30 Blu-ray has already won, and deep down we all know it. Blu-ray is stomping HD-DVD in sales and movies and STILL has all the CE and studio support advantage it has enjoyed since the beginning. Blu-ray is winning in absolutely everything and has no signs of slowing down. And it is winning with everything that counts. Capacity, bandwidth, number of movies, number of studios, numbers of players to choose from, copy protection with new methods yet to be implemented while HD-DVD is stuck, disc reliability with owners of both formats reporting Blu-ray is much more reliable, Blu-ray discs are on average CHEAPER because of no combos, and now Blu-ray has a very clear lead in SALES. I mean what else left is there? We've been hearing for months how "studios will just follow the money" but notice you don't hear that much anymore now that Blu-ray has the sales lead. Hindsight is 20-20. Just look how many rumor mongers don't post anymore on here and don't infiltrate every thread. There is a REASON. There is nothing really left to argue over or spread rumors about. The "war" arguments now a days have become just sad and not interesting, which is why I don't post much anymore which many on here on the HD-DVD side I'm sure love. But I know deep down that they are laughing a little bit inside when the pro-HD-DVD arguments have turned to adult video and Shinco players with no price or release dates. It was fun when we didn't know what the future held as much and the arguments were heated, but now how is anyone supposed to take HD-DVD seriously? It's amazing how BD rose up, slowly but surely, and proved all of it's critics wrong though. Let's look back... Remember BD-50's were just science fiction and would never come out? BD-50's were "inherently flawed." Then they did come out. Then BD-50's were too expensive and wouldn't be common. They were inherently flawed to always be expensive and rare and "not needed." Why? Because the side arguing didn't have the capacity. Then they became more common. Then MPEG-2 and BD-25 could not reproduce great quality--it was inherently flawed. Then Tears of the Sun came out. Then MI:III. Then... Then BD players were all "twice the price of HD-DVD" because they were "all" $1000. And none of these people ever insinuated that these prices would go down--this was an inherent flaw to BD. Then the Sammy dropped to $599 on Amazon and the $499 PS3 was released. Then the Xbox 360 add-on would "neutralize" the PS3. It did not. Then MS would announce an HD-DVD drive "built in" to neutralize the PS3. Then MS denied that this was ever in the plans. Then Triple Layer discs (which many recall were announced LAST year) were going to "neutralize the BD capacity advantage." But they never saw the light of day, and are STILL vaporware. Then Blu-ray's were "vulnerable" to scratches, much moreso than HD-DVD, and they were inherently flawed for rental companies. But then people on here began to realise that it is HD-DVD that is much more vulnerable to scratches and Blu-ray discs were MUCH more reliable. A poll on here found only 3.7% of Blu-ray owners had a problem playing a rental while 25% of HD-DVD owners did. And guys like Gary and Fettastic, who were once hardcore HD-DVD fans who blasted Blu-ray every chance they got last summer, admitted that Blu-ray discs are much more reliable to own and much more resistant to scratches than HD-DVD's. And now these guys are Blu-ray fans! So that argument went away too. Then the PS3 was released and the "poor sales" proved it would have no effect on Blu-ray. Then it went on to outsell the 360 comparatively at it's launch and now Blu-ray is clearly ahead in sales. Since at this time of the PS3 launch the HD-DVD fan still had sales arguments on their side, then the arguments were that "studios would follow the money" so it isn't an idiotic decision to support a format that has only 3 major studios releasing content on it, because it was "just a matter of time" before studios would "see the light." Never happened. Still only 3 major studios releasing content on a format that is still basically just Toshiba and an optional video game console add-on, with still only one exclusive studio who seems uninterested in fully supporting the format with "100" mystery titles to be release sometime this year, 90% of which will be on combo! THAT is HD-DVD. And about those sales arguments... well we all realize how that is turning out right now. After the PS3 arguments failed the goalposts were then switched to CES. CES was going to be big for HD-DVD with new studios going neutral for them and new big name CE companies coming on board. They knew they needed some major CE support and at least one studio going neutral, and this hope was so great that there were literally posters PROMISING people that at least one Blu-ray studio would go neutral at CES. Didn't happen. And as far as CE all they got was some junk names like Shinco not one of them has ever owned, and a bunch of "mystery movies" with no release dates. And don't forget about that giant lump of coal from Universal. So now the hope has shifted to cheap adult flicks and Chinese junk name players for a serious forum like AVS--and, in case you forgot, these players don't have any announced prices or release dates, just like most of those mystery movies. --- These arguments all turned out to be wrong. But at least they were somewhat interesting because we were all waiting with baited breath to see how the PS3 would effect sales and what would happen at CES. And now things are much clearer. Now that it has turned out that things are not better for HD-DVD but FAR FAR WORSE then when this arguments were being made, with all the problems they had before but now they have to contend with a better selling Blu-ray who has more movies coming out every week in February than HD-DVD has for the entire month, and you have a situation where there is no real reason to take HD-DVD seriously and get into arguments anymore on here regarding a "war" because there is no war--we should all admit that, deep down, we all know that Blu-ray has won. It has won with capacity, bandwidth, scratch resistance and reliability for our archives, studios, player choices, more MOVIES, and now clearly BETTER SALES. There is no war anymore. And deep down we all know it and we should move on and just get Universal to go neutral so we can come together and focus on the MOVIES ONLY, which is why we are all, deep down, in this together. - Last edited by yoyoniner : Yesterday at 02:56 PM.} |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 43 Registered: Dec-06 |
Hey moron, please, as I said before in this forum, if you're going to post a link, make sure it's not ancient news and it's current, FROM 2007! So BD is selling more ehh? What's your source? I need a source that shows me that BD is selling more than HD DVD. Now if you want a current report, I'll give it to you, I'll post my source. Now, don't tell me that your buddy John at Best Buy told you that BD is winning because I can tell you, my buddy who works at BB as a CASHIER recenly told me that he rings more people up for HD DVDs than BD, even though there are "more BD disks" at the store......which means, that people aren't buying as much because there's ovbiously more of them left at the store shelves. Now if u wanna talk about dirty, then tell me this..... Circuit City's rule, put all the BD's in a shiny fancy, shelf, that says "BLU-RAY" and then when we go to find HD DVD, they're "mixed in with the regular DVDs!" LOL Not to mention, THEY'RE IN THE BACK OF THE LINES TOO!! Oh and then, their BD player facing the entrance, with the nice XBR2 (which I think is a crappy TV anyway) and the Toshiba player is on a Polaroid TV which ISN'T EVEN PLAYING BECAUSE THEY TURN IN OFF!!! NOW WHO FEARS WHO MORE???? WE, THE HD DVD PEOPLE JUST DON'T GIVE A SH*T AND WE SAY BRING IT BLU-RAY! WE DON'T NEED TO PLAY DIRTY FOR DESPRATE SALE BOOST! So you're talking about cheaper players? So u HONESTLY THINK that if there are cheaper players for HD DVD, people are going to spend $1g on a BD player?!?!?!? ARE YOU RETARDED KID?!?!? Do you know WHY DVD IS POPULAR NOW??? Not because Sony, Panasonic, and the others came out with their $200-$400 players, it's because Chinese companies came out with $40 players. You're speaking of the 2% people that are shopping in Magnolia, who's just buying it because they can afford both. It's funny how I saw a guy at Best Buy, buying a Pioneer Elite for $8g didn't want a BD so badly that he ended up buying an Xbox 360 and an HD DVD only because the BB didn't have the Toshiba A1 in stock and A1 was coming out in 2 months then.... But the main point is that the fact that there will be cheaper players for $100 and $200 isn't a bad thing for us.you retard! IT'S A VERY VERY VERY GOOD NEWS FOR ALL THE HD DVD SUPPORTERS! Listen, I want you to go and take a semester of Business class and learn how business works and how companies become successful. AND PLEASE STOP BRAINWASHING YOUSELF WITH SONY'S BD CRAP! I'm not going to waste my time arguing w/ u about PQ because I can tell u anyday that HD DVD is producing a much better picture than ANY BD MOVIES OUT THERE.... ....and if you want to get into reliability of the disks.....let me tell you, the manager at Circuit City, who was pushing on BD to us, after talking to us for 30 mins confessed that BD disks are being returned at their store all the time because they're getting minor scratches. He also mentioned that he's buying an HD DVD player because BD is not worth the money. The only reason he was pushing that to us is because he thought we were "working for Sony, as there are mystery shoppers by Sony that come there to check up on the sales people every week" HAHAHAHAHAHA The we told him that one of his employees just pushed us to buy a BD player, the manager said, that's because we're told to sell them, not because we want to BUT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO. Here's the conversation we had w/ his salesman. US: What's selling better?? SM: The Blu-ray of course. US: WHY??? SM: Because it's better..... US: HOW???? (NOW WHAT I'M ABOUT TO TELL YOU, IS NOT A LIE, AND I'LL TOUCH THE BIBLE AND SAY HE SAID IT!) SM: I don't know, it's just a better system......IT'S GOT MORE SPACE! US: Ohhhh ..........HAHAHAHAHA THANKS MAN! US: Hmm so where is your HD DVD player??? SM: Oh, uhh...there's one! US: Why is it turned off?? SM: O, it broke down on it's own....... (THEN HE TRIES TO PLAY IT FOR US AND PUTTING THE TV IN THE WRONG INPUT, SHOWING US THAT IT'S NOT SHOWING ANY PICTURES) US: Can I see that for a second???? (SO I PUT THE TV INTO THE RIGHT INPUT, THEN REALIZED THE COMPONENT-NOT EVEN AN HDMI CABLE- WASN'T HOOKED PROPERLY!!!!!) US: SEE??? IT'S WORKING AGAIN!!! SM: Ohhh.....yeah we have to turn that off sorry..... US:........(by that point, we were too pissed to even stand there...so walked away)........... As far as your PS3 goes....EVEN WII IS BEATING PS3 SALES....... The only reason PS3 even sold so much was because people bought more than 1 copy to sell on Ebay..... and we all know where that's going....people CAN'T SELL! hahahahahahaha as for Universal.......give it a few months to see what the mystery titles are! U idiot! They just announced it a week ago! the only reason there's so manby BD movies is because Sony owns studios......read my post above about which way the sales are being shifted.... Sorry, I'm not an HD DVD fanboy I just don't like BULLSH*T by all you Sony fans! Thank you |
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New member Username: MikeymackinonPost Number: 8 Registered: May-06 |
I think everyone is thinking to small, the consumer is the end user. The general public will not be a deciding factor in witch device will be the standard. Large companies signing contracts with the suppliers will. If a data back up co. sign with BD to be the format and it's a contact worth 3 trillion then it will push the scale and so on with multiple companies. Banks Governments Hospitals etc... BD has the ability to store more data HD is older technology making it insufficient for the growing world. It is time for a new format and HD is a temporary supplement for cost effectiveness. The general public needs to be aware of this in order to save our money and cut the extra step from the process. Don’t bother with HD because it won’t be around for much longer. BD can do more and everyone should dig deep and spend the extra 20 cents for the long term investment. |
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New member Username: CerosPost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-07 |
I don't know Mike. Large companies have way more technologies to choose from than just hddvd and bluray. Heard of the holographic versatile disc (HVD)? Maybe small companies would look into cheaper solutions like hddvd and bluray. Or maybe they'll just go with a cheap and mature solution like using hard drives and mass storage devices. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 44 Registered: Dec-06 |
Son, get your head out of ur @$$ please and think! CONSUMTER CONTROLS COMPANIES!!! If consumers are buying MORE HD DVD THAN MORE COMPANIES ARE GOING TO BACK IT UP! It's not the other way around. Are you driking or smoking something that ur not telling us about??? Major companies back BD?? For what? Its "200 gig" space that it will produce, in 5 years, or 10, OR EVEN THEN AT ALL????? Please kid, get over urself. HDV's are going to be out way before then and will be able to sreo TB's not GB's! So u honestly think people care bout the space that BD has??? Oh BTW, remember Underworld?? The movie that was supposed to be "THE BLU-RAY" movie for launch?? Well go here and check out this link! http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=63931 that's right! IT'S NOW ON HD DVD! Just like a XXX and some other Sony titles! Google it and you'll find them online. Then go here http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=63912 haha anymore links u want me post??? O I forgot to tell u, as for as ur lil Sammy player goes, THAT THING IS A CRAP!!! IT'S NOT SEELLING!! AND THAT'S WHY IT'S SO CHEAP!!! Go to bed and dream about BD son! U JUST GOT PWNED! |
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New member Username: CerosPost Number: 3 Registered: Jan-07 |
Mohaimen, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously if you go around talking like that. Just to entertain you, you talk about some guys that work at best buy or circuit city and that they say one thing. Well, I could go around all the retail stores in my area and get the same opinion, but I could say the exact opposite of what they said. It's the "he said, she said" argument. Would you believe what I have to say? Would anyone believe me? As far as picture quality goes, whether a movie is in hddvd or bluray has nothing to do with how good the picture is. If a studio wanted to, they can encode a movie (both picture and sound) to look and sound the exact same on both formats. Ultimately, it's up to how good someone wants their movies to look on these formats. As far as Sony owning studios, yes, they own their own studios. Disney owns Disney, Fox owns Fox, and so on. It's all part of the Blu-Ray Disc Association which you can think of as an alliance. So since these studios support bluray, of course they're going to distribute movies on bluray. As for the rest of your post, it's not even worth arguing about. I've seen a million of these types of posts on forums all over the internet. And what's with this "WE THE HDDVD PEOPLE?" Are you an insider? Does it benefit you in any way if you go around posting stuff like this in forums and at the same time insulting others? And here's a link of the current situation. http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hmr012807/ |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 45 Registered: Dec-06 |
listen BD lovers.....just wait and see who wins out....whats the point of arguing? I've made my point...u got PWNED and so did BD! I wish I was workin for Toshiba...I'd be paid! Sh*t, w/ all the things I'm posting for HD DVD..... when I say "WE THE HD DVD PEOPLE" I mean....majority of us in this form, that support the format and all around the world...seriously, you no backup...just talk. Just like Sony....remember, talk is cheap....when Sony starts pulling moves like TOshiba, u let me know.... |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 37 Registered: Feb-06 |
Mike, I think you're putting too much on the shoulders of HD DVD and Blu-Ray here. These formats were created for use in home application. They're intended for home theater media and light storage. I hope to hell any large corporation has the sense to use proper storage for important data and DVD/HDDVD/Blu-Ray isn't it. These are consumer formats and you can be sure that consumers will decide which format wins... if there will even be a winner. Also, it should be noted that HD DVD is NOT older technology that Blu-Ray. They're both new technologies. HD DVD does have the benefit of requiring only upgrades for replication equipment while Blu-Ray requires complete replacement, but that DOES NOT mean that it's older technology. They're really just variants of the same blue laser technology. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 38 Registered: Feb-06 |
}As far as picture quality goes, whether a movie is in hddvd or bluray has nothing to do with how good the picture is. This is *supposed* to be true since both HD DVD and Blu-Ray use the same codecs, however current Blu-Ray discs are exhibiting lower picture quality (picture noise, color degradation) due to the particular codec that Sony is choosing to use for some unknown reason... that being MPEG-2. The question is WHY. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 46 Registered: Dec-06 |
Hey Tom Tom is back! Where u been??? Actually, if I remember correctly, I think BD Associations was formed earlier than HD DVD....thought I'm not 100% sure on that can someone please educate me on that one??? |
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New member Username: CerosPost Number: 4 Registered: Jan-07 |
Mohaimen, I don't see the point you're trying to make. The only thing you are doing is flaming and trolling. You made your point that you asked people in retail stores about bluray and hddvd. I made mine when I said I could get any opinion from anyone at the retail stores and still post whatever on this forum and make it sound like they said it. You made your point about cheaper players. OK, I'll give you that. There's been an announcement that Chinese manafacturers are teaming up with Toshiba to make hddvd players. Alpine is on it too. http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6405062.html HOWEVER, it says they're going to make them. In other words so far it's vaporware, nothing to be excited about yet. It should be noted also the Lite On, Onkyo, and Alpine are a part of the BDA as well. http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html So cheap bluray players are as much as a possibility as cheap hddvd players. PQ has nothing to do with what format is used. A codec is a codec no matter what way you look at it. How the studios or whoever is making these movies work with these codecs is their business. That being said, one hddvd movie can look better than another hdddvd movie. One bluray movie can look better than another bluray movie. The point here is that the format doesn't automatically make every movie look fantastic, in 1080p or whatever. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 47 Registered: Dec-06 |
Andres, I've provided a lot useful info in this website. Read up and you'll see....did u even read half of the posts in this thread??? Anywayz, funny how you talk about Chinese companies making cheaper players, go see Lite-On, Onkyo, and Alpine's websites and see if you can find any info on them making any BD players.... They're more focused on HD DVD players...and as far as price goes, funny, I was reading an article just a few hours ago. Sony, stating said "it took 4-5 years for the price of DVD players to come down to $200-$300 range, and we expect the same for BD players..... 4-5 YEARS?!?!?!? Seriously man....Blu-Ray is a joke! And YOU ARE RIGHT!!! Format doesn't make every movie look fantastic BECAUSE BLU-RAY IS YET TO MAKE A DECENT 1080P PICTURE! Here's a link you should read http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=63931   |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 39 Registered: Feb-06 |
Hey Tom Tom is back! Where u been??? Been wicked busy with work. I haven't even had time to keep my HD DVD collection up to date. There has to be some good movies out that I don't have yet. ;) |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 48 Registered: Dec-06 |
lol....believe it or not, I don't really rent any HD DVD's because I buy...I've rented 2 so far. I usually never have time to watch movies so I copy them until I can watch it later...but as for now, since I can't burn HD DVDs I don't rent them and just buy them....when I can... Oh I have my Xbox 360 on sale with the HD DVD drive...I don't play at all so I am selling it. Bid ends tomorrow.... But today, I bought the HD-A2 for $350 shipped. Brand new on ebay! I can't believe I got it for that cheap!!! Can't wait till it shows up! It's damn worth it for that money don't u think??? |
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New member Username: CerosPost Number: 5 Registered: Jan-07 |
Did I read most of your posts, NO. Do I want to, NO. Why? Because you make some outrageous claims. For instance, you said bluray has yet to make a decent picture in 1080p. It's just an opinion coming from you, and with that opinion you automatically link it to be somehow related to bluray, to the format, which is not true. You make these claims but you don't back them up with credible sources. On top of that, you troll while posting. With that link of Underworld, so a movie is said to be coming out from Sony that's hddvd, but in another country. Who's to say this will be true? I can find the same kind of thing too. http://play.com/DVD/Blu-ray/RCS/3-/1130431/Brokeback_Mountain/Product.html Who's to say it's true? |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 49 Registered: Dec-06 |
Well Andres, if you read most of my posts then u'd realize that ur an idiot for talking crap. Go read them first and see if I can back my "crap" up also..... As for BD PQ: O it's my opinion??? Ok......so let me get started here...... 1: http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm "This dramatic improvement in image quality was apparent across all HD-DVDs we have seen thus far. From the outset we were happily surprised by the substantial improvement in image quality being delivered by the $500 Toshiba HD-DVD player. And after investing $1000 for the Samsung BD-P1000, we were expecting to see at least comparable results. After all, the player is twice the money, and the discs are encoded in the same 1080p resolution format. How different could it be? Quite different, as it turns out. The Blu-ray launch delivered a rude surprise—picture quality that is moderately better than that available on standard DVD, but not rising to the level of anything one could call high definition. We viewed The Fifth Element, Terminator, and The House of Flying Daggers side by side in their DVD and Blu-ray versions, deriving the same results from each test: the Blu-ray discs showed somewhat better contrast and detail over their DVD counterparts. But the difference was not nearly as dramatic as the comparisons between DVD and HD-DVD. Moreover, none of the Blu-ray discs matched the higher quality of the HD-DVDs." 2: http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/01/first-hd-dvd-vs-blu-ray-title-bout-training -day/ Blow for blow after the jumpThe first round went to HD DVD thanks Blu-ray's funny cropping issue. Blu-ray just wasn't all the way there on the sides even though both titles were technically 2.40:1. The second round went to HD DVD as well when the Blu-ray title displayed more polarization. HD DVD was more focused and had an easier time staying on target then Blu-ray. The third round was an easy one for HD DVD 'cause for some reason Blu-ray couldn't make out HD DVD. 'Ol Blu's picture was just too dark compaired to the natural look of HD-DVD They went onto a fourth round and HD DVD almost knocked out Blu-ray with his TrueHD surround track but, alas, there isn't any TrueHD compatible devices yet so it turned out to be a draw. These two formats could go blow for blow, but in the end, the HD DVD title bested the Blu-ray version thanks to it's more consistent picture. It is simply more accurate and stable. All this from an "old-school" 1080i player too. Congrats goes out to the whole HD DVD camp and until next time, have fun and play safe, but do it in high-def! 3: http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2006/06/bluray_vs_hddvd.html Myth: Blu-ray has better image quality than HD-DVD. Reality: I’ve yet to find one article, early review or credible observation from a trusted source, that flatly states ‘Blu-ray looks better than HD-DVD’. All the Blu-ray reviews I’ve read thus far all throw in some caveat or disclaimer, that seems to indicate HD-DVD’s performance hasn’t been eclipsed, even if they liked XYZ feature in Blu-ray more. My own observations (Which I freely admit weren’t with a system I was intimately familiar with) found the exact opposite to be true. So far I’ve viewed, ‘House of Flying Daggers’, ‘Hitch’ and ‘Ultraviolet’ and the Blu-ray demo disc on a 61” 1080p Samsung rear-pro display. Flying Daggers had severe macro-blocking in scenes with single fields of highly saturated colors. The same thing presented itself in ‘Ultraviolet’ during a close-up of Mila Jovovich's midriff; I again noticed distinct pixilation as if the subtle changes in skin-tone simply weren’t being rendered. It was as if this section of video just got a wash of color as opposed to the subtle shading I’m used to seeing from HD-DVD. Hitch on the other hand was just plain bad; I noticed more macro-blocking and shading problems, and less sharpness than the other two titles to boot. It was better than DVD but not better enough to justify the expense. While the Blu-ray demo disc did indeed have better image quality than the full length Blu-ray movies. I have to assume with the demo disc coming in it at 30 minutes or so, Sony was able to take full advantage of Blu-ray’s bit-rate, whereas they couldn’t with the full length films. 4.Samsung admits to flaw in Blu-ray player http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6555414.html Samsung's BD-P1000 reportedly has a fatal video quality flaw. ------------------------------------------------ If you need more info then you go look it up. I'm not here to spoon feed a banboi....as for those websites, they're not "forums" Those are tests done by large companies that know home theater products very well....and if you want a forum full of people to tell you that the PQ is better in HD DVD then you're already in one, among many! |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 50 Registered: Dec-06 |
LOL BANBOI=FANBOI sorry |
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New member Username: CerosPost Number: 6 Registered: Jan-07 |
First one is from a site that is not well known and it was posted in June of last year. I didn't bother reading this article because of that. Are you going to believe everything you see on the internet, or are you going to check the source and see if there's anything worth giving some credence? Second one was the first review from highdefdigest.com. http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature_blurayvshddvd_firstcomparison.html But then they came out with another review. http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature_blurayvshddvd_roundtwo.html Warner used a different codec (VC-1) for their bluray version of Tears of the Sun and now differences in picture quality can not be seen on either hddvd or bluray. "You mean changing the codec would make a difference in the quality of a movie? You mean to tell me that this has NOTHING to do with the format being used but in the codec? Who would have known." /sarcasm Third one is a blog. A BLOG! Did I bother reading it, OF COURSE NOT! I'm leaving it at that. Fourth one. Well Samsung admitted their folly. Their bluray player was faulty. Judging by all your previous posts, you must think this has something to do with bluray. Once again, NO IT'S NOT. This has to do with that specific player. The Samsung rep said all future players would be fixed and that a firmware update would be distributed to those that already have the player. Even if Samsung wasn't going to fix that issue, there's still the other companies in the BDA to decide to release their players if they want to make them. So after posting all your junk on this webpage, you have not given any compelling argument to say that hdddvd is better or that bluray is inferior. All you've done is show how you support hddvd religiously, post misinformation, post questionable sources, and insult everyone that doesn't share the same view as you do. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 51 Registered: Dec-06 |
Andres, you're seriously a moron. I'm not even trying to diss you, but seriously, you are. When BD are worth buying, I'll be one of the first HD DVD owner to buy one. I've already looked at a BD plyer that I want to buy for a good price and no, it's not the crappy Samsung. So stop being an idiot that you are and assume something about me that you don't know...... as for all those articles, I was talking about the PQ of BD not the whole format itself... Send me 1 quality site that you shows that BD has a better PQ than HD DVD.....actually, give me your reason why BD is better than HD DVD and don't start with it's high capacity space.... Seriously, I want to know...... |
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New member Username: CerosPost Number: 7 Registered: Jan-07 |
Mohaimen, all you did was attack others on the forums, and now you're trying to say that you weren't trying. You mean to tell me that all those posts you made on this forum wasn't from you, that the posts under your name weren't your thoughts? You mean to tell me that after all this time and effort you spent flaming and trolling on this forum that it wasn't a direct reflection of your character? You mean to tell me that you could've shown respect to others on this forum and at the same time post your thoughts? If so, you failed. Instead what you shown me is that I could have better discussions with a 10 year old than I could with you. I really see no point in going any further on this. Moving on. BD IS the format. What does BD stand for, Blu-ray Disc. With that said, PQ doesn't matter in bluray or hddvd because at the end of the discussion, PQ had nothing to do with the format. It has to do with the codec and than it has to do with how the video was encoded using that codec. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 52 Registered: Dec-06 |
Andres...ur a very annoying person.....please just stop.....read ur post to urself and see if any of it makes any sense??? I'm done w/ you....There was another idiot like you here named Charles....I suggest you find him and have a blu-ray fiesta....Im completely done discussing this w/ you....if you have any other Bluray lovers, send them here..... |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 40 Registered: Feb-06 |
BD IS the format. What does BD stand for, Blu-ray Disc. With that said, PQ doesn't matter in bluray or hddvd because at the end of the discussion, PQ had nothing to do with the format. It has to do with the codec and than it has to do with how the video was encoded using that codec. Andres, again you are only presenting a half truth here. Yes, both formats use the same codecs, so there *shouldn't* be a difference in PQ between the formats. However both HD DVD and Blu-Ray have the ability to use the older and less efficient MPEG-2 codec, and BRD released a full year of movies in MPEG-2 while HD DVD was releasing theirs in the better looking VC-1. In the future, BR claims that it will now be using the better codecs, but the question remains: WHY did Sony use MPEG-2 to begin with? Since there is very little difference between the formats, this becomes a significant issue at least in the short run. It's not safe to say that BRD is THE format, which is why both formats have been on the market for some time and there has been no clear winner. The trend will likely continue. As far as I'm concerned (and others should care about this as well), Sony has lost my respect in this war for releasing a semi-functional product and making claims that were false. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 41 Registered: Feb-06 |
Regarding some of the favoritism being talked about at such stores as Best Buy and Circuit City, I have a few points to add to that discussion. Sony spends good advertising dollars to get their name out there... a LOT of money. Toshiba is a frugal company that does not budget well for advertising. In many ways, Toshiba is irresponsible with their ad campaigns, and it shows. For the most part they have great products that are highly recommended... but they don't present themselves well. That being said, Best Buy doesn't erect a Blu-Ray or HD DVD kiosk on their own... Sony and Toshiba have to pay for what they want for an in-store display. Sony pays for a good presentation, while Toshiba drags their heels and HD DVD sits on a shelf with no power. It's their own fault. Sony is more expensive, but easier to sell with the marketing material they provide Best Buy and Circuit City.. so *of course* employees will be told to sell the product that will bring in more money and they have the means to promote. Is Sony paying for this part of the treatment? Doubtful. If Toshiba would spend the advertising dollars for HD DVD, retail stores would respond by recommending that product more because they have the means to sell it. I was at Best Buy a few weeks back looking at the HD-A2 (on the shelf, no power) when a sales rep came up to me and suggested that I look at the Blu-Ray kiosk. I told him that I already owned an HD-A1 and was just looking at the new unit out of curiosity. He asked how I liked it and I gave him a quick and dirty lowdown on my feelings about both formats. His response was, "oh... I don't really know much about the HD DVD... just Blu-Ray. I didn't realize they were so similar." He seemed a little embarrassed, so I ended the conversation without prodding him any more, but while some might see this as favoritism, I got the distinct impression that this guy was given the proper Sony ammunition for the war, while Toshiba provided nothing. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 53 Registered: Dec-06 |
HEy Thomas...I went to Best Buy on Friday night....spoke to an employee who was for the first time, told me BLU-RAY PLAYER IS CRAP! I could't believe it! He said that his dad owned the Blu-Ray...and the picture is OK but compared to HD DVD, it's not upto it's performance...I was shocked when he told me this...and he said "we're not supposed to, but, I don't want to lie" He told me to get a BD player for 2 weeks and rent a few movies, to see if i like the quality and what I find better...and I think I'm gonna do that in a month or two...as for now, I am very happy with my HD DVD's and can't wait to get my HD-A2 player by mail! Oh here's a link I found that might be very interesting.... http://sony.engadgethd.com/2007/02/03/hd-dvd-promotional-group-touting-big-name- spielberg-films/ ...that and the new Universal titles are going to crush Blu-Ray! Anyone knows anything about Star Wars?? |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 54 Registered: Dec-06 |
Interesting fact....but SO DAMN TRUE!!! "Not for me to start a row with Google. They are bigger than me and have more money. But the heading Hardware Blu-ray Sales Surpass HD DVD Nearly Threefold is, to say the least, somewhat misleading. Or, if you prefer, a load of bollocks. Luckily, the computer — Google swears there is no human intervention but it may be telling little porkies — later changed it to Fight for DVD Supremacy Heats Up which is much more accurate. Again, strangely — the computer made me do it officer, honest — most of the sources listed internationally were Australian and, no, I am not in Australia nor using the Australian news site. So Google News needs to lift its game. What we have are figures released by Nielsen VideoScan to Home Media Magazine that Blu-ray movies are quickly gaining ground on HD DVD. Let us stop there and consider the sentence. If they are quickly gaining ground then they are behind. Then comes the next sentence: the sales numbers show that Blu-ray Discs have been outselling HD DVDs by a strong margin thus far in 2007. Which is followed by marketing analysis gobbledy-gook. Try following the logic, please. During the first week of 2007, sales of Blu-ray more than doubled that of HD DVDs, with the latter making up only 46.14 percent of sales compared to the former. Hold hard, my good fellow, simple maths tells us if you sell 46.24 percent and Blu-Ray doubled it then Blu-Ray sold 92.58 percent which means that altogether the sales were about 150 percent which is not totally logical. In fact, quite daft. So let us look at some possible reasons. Obviously, the launch of the PlayStation 3, which has a Blu-ray Disc drive would have pushed sales. Because separate HD DVD players sold a lot less than the PlayStation 3. Say 175,000 HD DVD players. But the PlayStation is for playing games. Of course, there are bugger-all games available as yet, so you need something to stick in this expensive machine and a movie will do. Mark you, HD DVD has very little unless you could accept Batman Begins — top selling title with a picture used to illustrate this article — as intelligent viewing which I am not willing so to do. The report allows HD DVD still holds the majority of total HD movies sold with Blu-ray is galloping up on the inside but still has not quite made it. Which makes a total nonsense of the original headline. It is pure iambic nonsense. A saner moment, away from figures which make no sense at all, comes from the Global Optical Storage Industry Report, published December 2006. It says that HD DVD will still be the mainstream in the market during 2007 to 2009. After that it gives the edge to Blu-ray. The problem is there is very little dependable Blu-Ray manufacturing and testing equipment around. Think of HD DVD as being a logical extension of what had gone before. Blu-Ray as a leap into technological advancement. Is it the bridge too far? I dunno. But some of the daft reports based on very iffy sales figures do not help to come up with an informed view. Google News should be ashamed of itself. The computer than runs it should be made to stand in corner until lunch break." |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 25 Registered: Jun-06 |
andres.. dont let Mohainy Krazi get you worked up, hes just trying to justify his purchase of 400 bux or whatever.. he payed.. just listen to teh other posts like Thomas etc.. who have a more rational response if you have read any of my posts, you will know i am a techie junkie like yourself, and support the superior hard ware, but i have unusual requierments and needs from optical formats... i look at them for their storage ability, and abillity to write. you and I both know that in the end if blu ray is adopted.. we are going to see way faster times burning cds dvds and bd's , we are going to see way better soluctions for the public for storage.. butif hd dvd is adopted.. we are going to see crawling speeds for brning time.. and inferior storage capacities.. but is that going to decide who wins this war? .. for home movies defientlynot.. for computers? as far as im concerned.. hd dvd isnt even in that war.. they never even started.. its now 8 months in and i still cant buy a hd dvd burner if i wanted to.. yet i can get one and could get one since last year for 550$ thats right.. a reader and writer .. for 550$ canadian.. i havent even convereted it to american dollars yet.. maybe hd dvd should get the job of holding movies for the general uneducated hillbillie public and bd be awarded the container for the educated hifi teckies computer market like your self and i whos to say.. what id like to see is the movie downloadable.. and teh user able to put the movie in perfect undistinguishable same codec format be able to put the movie in wihch ever container he or she wants. whether that be a hd dvd.. which will take forever to burn.. or a bd or.. (heck they could buy 100s of hard drives to store them.. which apparently to some hd friendly people on this forum say is a viable storage solution??? ) but rather just play them right from the computer hard drive.. then people could really make a decision based on hard ware performance .. not on silly codecs used at the time, or crappy players that people are forced to use.. or release dates or all that crap that in the long run doesnt mean anything.. |
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New member Username: Rafap80Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 |
We talk about these format wars all the time. There are fanboys in both camps, (I think largely because of their game console affiliation) - but we know that ultimately consumers are only going to tolerate one format...right? Maybe Not. Here's Why: Let's start with some facts about the two platforms: Storage Capacity....Blu-Ray.............HD-DVD Single Layer..........25GB................15GB Dual Layer.............50GB................30GB Tested Limit..........100GB...............45GB Theoretical Limit.....200GB...............60GB Studio Support Blu-Ray...........................HD-DVD Sony................................NEC Dell..................................Sanyo Hewlett-Packard................Memory-Tech Hitachi.............................Microsoft LG Electronics..................Intel Matsushita Electric(Panasonic) Mitsubishi Electric Philips Electronics Apple Pioneer Electronics Samsung Electronics Sharp TDK Thomson Multimedia Toshiba Console Support The Playstation 3 supports Blu-Ray disks, while the Xbox 360 has a low-cost HD-DVD player add-on to the Xbox 360. Player Costs Blu-Ray players are currently more epensive than HD-DVD players by several hundred dollars...but that could change in the future. Special Features HD-DVD has special feature capabilties that Blu-Ray currently lacks. An example of this is at a demo attended by John C. Divorak, he reported that the HD-DVD pitch men showed him a copy of The Fast and the Furious: Toyko Drift where the viewer could customize the look of the car in the movie. So, just what the hell am I talking about anyway? Well, with the above mentioned facts in mind we can see a few things. 1) HD-DVD players are less expensive for the consumer to purchase, and HD-DVDs have some more compelling movie specific features, like customizing in-movie vehicles. 2) Blu-Ray has TONS more storage, and major electronics support. So when I look at these facts I come to two conclusions. 1 - HD-DVD is better suited for movies on my television. The players are cheaper, the disks are cheaper, and the possibilities of the novely special features could be compelling in the future. 2 - Blu-Ray is better suited for my computer. The storage capacity of the Blu-Ray disk puts the HD-DVD counterpart to shame. 100 to 200 gigs a disk is EXACTLY what we need in this age of digital content. As your life becomes more and more digital, 200 gigs is going to look more and more like the 700mbs we have on our CD-Rs today. Conclusion/Prediction These formats are not going away anytime soon. Over the next few years the prices will drop, but eventually I think Blu-Ray will not be the player of choice for your Hollywood movie content. HD-DVD will win the consumer support for Hollywood content by being cheaper and having more flashy features. However, Blu-Ray is a clear winner when it comes to the drive that I want in my computer, and I think, ultimately, that's what going to happen. HD-DVD = Movies. Blu-Ray = Data Storage. So...what do you think? |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 42 Registered: Feb-06 |
That's a pretty healthy prediction, Rafael. It's definitely possible. The HD DVD group hasn't made much attempt to get HD DVD players into computers, save for laptops, which are likely to be used more for playing movies on the go. Blu-Ray started manufacturing BD-R drives and media relationships very quickly. Your prediction is much like how VHS won out for movie media and Beta won out for professional videography back in the day. Heck, if BD-R proves to be more stable than DVD-R is, it could find its way into more professional storage applications as well as consumer storage. I'm sure companies would love to abandon their huge, slow tape solutions for a sexier, slimmer solution. |
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Bronze Member Username: MohaimenkPost Number: 55 Registered: Dec-06 |
Rafael....just a few corrections: HD DVD: 17GB per layer now.. HP maybe an HD DVD supporter. Their new computer lines are coming w/ HD DVD wrtier not BD writer. and you have Toshiba in with Blu-Ray... Just thought I'd point those out. But yea, prices will drop a lot. HD DVD's are going to go down a lot faster than BD as Sony stated that they dont' see it going down until 3-4 years, same as how DVD players got cheaper.... 1 thing I would tell you though, as far as BD, it's not rational for them to talk about their storage. Why? Because, HVD should be coming out very soon, a lot sooner than the price drop of BD players....so think about this for a second. In 2 years, people won't care about how much BD can hold because compared to 1.5 TB, BD will look like a CD-R. |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 26 Registered: Jun-06 |
Rafael Flores : a couple corrections.. the theoretical limit of the bluray is 10 layers which = 250 gigs.. there is currently no or a very negligable price difference in hd and bd movies.. price difference between players is also really non existent either .. the only reason it costs less for the inferior technology is cause hd is purposely taking losses on the players to try and win market share.. how long will this price difference be there? thats anyones guess. withcompanies like liton and the rest.. more and more people are running wires from their computers to their tvs.. and some people are even abandoning their tvs almost altogether.. to me a player is irrelevent.. i can just plug my projctor into my lap top and away i go.. i can play a .avi file or a blu ray.. or a hd dvd.. the format or container is irrelevent.. my point is i dont konw how many people are going to bother buying a hd dvd player for their tv and a blu ray for their comp at current prices, specially as price and bugs get worked out and streamlined..and any difference between them is neutralized.. i myself am not compeled enough to buy a hd dvd on top of my blu ray to change the color of a car in a movie i d never watch anyways.. but that said.. i think your prediction is atleast for the interm is on spot.. specially as certain studios and content holders and creaters have been experiencing problems authoring w bluray camp but from what i hear this is being experienced on both sides.. but that said. one minor fix and that could all go away.. so i still think its future uncertain.. we are looking at two huge markets.. the general movie buying public.. and the computer market.. i dont konw about your house but in mine i have a total of 2 lap tops, and 3 computers.. and all have 1 or two dvd players or recorders, yet i only have two tvs with 1 play hooked up to each.. and as teh future progresses, there is going to more and more computers.. and the difference between computers and and home theatres etc will blend and merge more and more.. so maybe that is why people are predicting blu ray to eventually gain dominance in 2008-9-on Thomas: thats a good analagy, and while certain aspects of it play today.. the landscape has changed dramatically as computers and higher end studios are hugely more prevelant today than they were back in teh vhs beta days.. if hd dvd is truly to be the cheap alternative to bd for tvs.. they are going to have to get alot cheaper in my mind .. they are going to have to be a minimum 25% - 50% difference in price to keep that crown as people are always going to want congruence between their computers and video devices.. and as bd keeps getting better and better and prices for movies arent any different.. hd dvd will hvae to hold on in the only way they can .. price difference.. but then how long can that last.. as players come down to 150 bux. vs 190 bux? Mohaimen: im all about the superior technology.. sed tvs and monitors and hvd optical disks! i cant freaking wait!! ill happily toss my blu ray out the window for one of these.. my only issue .. is when will they come.. :P |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 27 Registered: Jun-06 |
another thought.. we should send a message to to the industry and not adopt either format.. and just wait for the hvd disks.. i mean if you think about it.. they completely changed the laser and had all kinds of room for innovation, and all they can offer us a difference of 9 gigs to 25? or evenworse 9 gigs to 15 in hd dvd?? thats a paltry 6 gig difference????!??! does anyone else here see how pathetic that is.. back in the day.. when we went from cds to dvd .. it was like 8- 10 x the format increase.. and now we are supposed to get excited about a negligble 2.7x increase or with hd dvd 1.7 increase?? i say phooie to both formats.. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 43 Registered: Feb-06 |
the only reason it costs less for the inferior technology is cause hd is purposely taking losses on the players to try and win market share.. Both camps are taking losses to try and win market share. That's business. more and more people are running wires from their computers to their tvs.. and some people are even abandoning their tvs almost altogether.. People doing this are a minority. It's the shape of the future, don't get me wrong... but it's a ways off. and as teh future progresses, there is going to more and more computers.. and the difference between computers and and home theatres etc will blend and merge more and more.. The idea is to have less, actually. One main computer for storage and many terminals that access data from that one source. Kind of like the old-school dumb terminals. Your TV, heating system, fridge... anything can access your "server". Media can then be streamed to any device in or outside your home. if hd dvd is truly to be the cheap alternative to bd for tvs.. they are going to have to get alot cheaper in my mind .. Time will tell. |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 44 Registered: Feb-06 |
i say phooie to both formats.. ...and then you go through techno-withrawal. :p |
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Bronze Member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 28 Registered: Jun-06 |
thomas: true enough.. i also wonder if the financial might of blur ray and hd dvd didnt destroy the hvd camp .. or atleast negotiate some time to make them release it late?? i mean whats teh hold up.. they were supposed to be ready mid 2006..?? conspiracy anyone? |
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Bronze Member Username: ThomaniPost Number: 45 Registered: Feb-06 |
Hmmm... doesn't look good for HVD. The HVD Alliance website's "hot news" area halted at March 2006 and Optware's website is a big nothing. Having such lean buzz about it isn't good. They may have thrown in the towel. http://www.hvd-alliance.org/ http://www.optware.co.jp/english/ |
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