The Showdown: Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD
Alan Parsons wishes it wasn't so. But like it or not, the senior vice president of Pioneer's industrial solutions business group has become a wary foot soldier in the battle over the future of the DVD format. As music blares from a band playing at a nearby exhibit at the 2005 International CES, Parsons sits at a small table in a meeting room contemplating how the next couple of years might play out. He remains relatively reserved, trying not to let his passion for the next-generation Blu-Ray Disc format devolve into vitriol against rival format HD-DVD. "I don't like the rock throwing," he insists. "I just want to excite consumers." That may be true, but Parsons still finds it hard to resist getting in a few digs on the HD-DVD rival, which at about 15 gigabytes per layer has roughly 40 percent less storage capacity than the Blu-Ray format. "They might end up with something ho-hum," he says. "They're saying that [their capacity] is good, but people used to think that five gigs was good enough." Parsons shrugs his shoulders a bit, wearing a look of calm but certain exasperation. "Why would we limit ourselves to a lower capacity?" he asks. To be sure, Parsons is among several CE manufacturers backing the Blu-Ray format, which they claim is superior to HD-DVD. But the HD-DVD format has its own backers, who while fewer in numbers, are equally adamant that their format will win out because of its lower transition and manufacturing costs—as well as other technical benefits and its expected quicker time to market. Indeed, either format is a vast improvement over the current DVD design, which maxes out at about 4.7 gigabytes. Even at standard-definition quality, that's barely enough space for a two-hour movie and a few hours of special features. And with that much space, forget about high-definition TV. VHS vs. Beta all over Again? Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs enable HDTV reproduction because of their massive storage capacities. Using dual-layer techniques, HD-DVD can store as much as 30 gigabytes of data while a Blu-Ray disc can pack in a whopping 50 gigabytes. In the lab, techies already are working on several-layered discs that could allow more than 100 gigabytes of storage on one disc. That's enough for several HDTV movies, special features and compelling interactive content. Or a content provider could put more than 100 hours of standard-definition quality programming on one DVD. All 180 episodes of Seinfeld on one disc, anyone? The benefits for backward compatibility are clear: new players will be able to handle both old and new DVD formats in the same machine (outfitted with both red- and blue-laser diodes)—a major consumer benefit that manufacturers hope will drive unit sales. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both use blue lasers, which operate at lower wavelengths (405 nanometers) than current red lasers (650 nanometers). That microscopic difference goes a long way. Longer wavelengths suffer more diffraction, which limits their ability to focus tightly on a surface. But a blue laser's shorter wavelength allows it to read and write data over a much tighter surface area, which in turn allows storage of far more data on a disc that's roughly the same diameter of current DVDs. The benefits for backward compatibility are clear: New players will be able to handle both old and new DVD formats in the same machine (outfitted with both red- and blue-laser diodes)—a major consumer benefit that manufacturers hope will drive unit sales. But while consumers won't have to worry about obsolescence when it comes to their old DVD collections, the format war brewing between new Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs does present an age-old problem that evokes the VHS vs. Beta fiasco of the 1980s. The HD-DVD format—like the VHS format that won out over Beta—could become far more widely available to consumers sooner and at a lower price (at least initially) than Blu-Ray discs. That's because the HD-DVD format utilizes manufacturing techniques very similar to those used for the current generation of DVDs. Translation: Third-party duplication houses won't have to retool their factories significantly to make HD-DVDs a reality. That means that HD-DVD discs likely will be the first to market by at least several months, probably by the end of 2005. On the other hand, Blu-Ray discs require an entirely new manufacturing process with transition costs borne largely by duplicators (unless Blu-Ray backers devise a subsidy system. That, along with other issues, is expected to delay the introduction of Blu-Ray discs until sometime in 2006, which could hand a major advantage to the HD-DVD format. (add hard return here) "In this kind of battle, the guy who is out there first and cheaper is going to be the winner," says Fariborz Ghadar, director for the Center for Global Business Studies at Penn State University. "The more expensive and later one is going to be the loser." (The Blu-Ray camp contends that it will bring manufacturing costs nearly in line with HD-DVD during the next year. Parsons says that HD-DVD's cost advantage will amount to only "pennies" per disc over the Blu-Ray format). (add hard return here as well) "Unlike Blu-Ray discs, HD-DVD discs can be manufactured with similar equipment in the same plants that make current DVDs," said Jodi Sally, vice president of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products digital audio video products. Duking It Out Still, the nature of the next-generation rollout itself may force consumers to take sides early. Because of the vastly different physical attributes of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs, it's cost-prohibitive for manufacturers to produce next-generation players that can handle both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD formats in one machine. "You would need two pickup heads, and it would be very expensive," explains Stephen Balogh, business development manager at Intel's corporate technology group. So manufacturers have lined up on opposite sides of the fence, ready to produce players that only work with one or the other format. That could spell consumer confusion as buyers fear picking the wrong one and ending up with an obsolete player and content library. Each side wants to convince consumers that they should avoid the other side's format. HD-DVD backers are planning a "you want it, and we're here now" marketing strategy, whereas the Blu-Ray camp largely plans to adopt a "we won't be first, but we'll be better" campaign designed to warn consumers away from HD-DVD. So what's the breakdown of forces on each side? On the Blu-Ray side is a large group of CE manufacturers, including Dell, Hewlett Packard, Hitachi, LG Electronics, Mitsubishi Electric, Panasonic (Matsushita Electric), Pioneer, Royal Philips Electronics, Samsung Electronics, Sharp, Sony, TDK and Thomson. Some content providers also are onboard. In addition to obvious backing from Sony-affiliated movie studios Sony Pictures Entertainment and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, the Walt Disney Company and its home-video division Buena Vista Entertainment offered its non-exclusive endorsement of Blu-Ray in December. In addition, video gaming powerhouse Electronic Arts, along with Vivendi Universal Games, both came out for Blu-Ray at the 2005 International CES in January. Most gaming companies have yet to pick sides, although Blu-Ray's larger storage capacity may win some of them over. "If you show Blu-Ray to a game manufacturer and say you can have an extra 20 gigabytes of storage, it's a drop-dead deal," says Blu-Ray backer Richard Doherty, managing director for Blu-Ray and professional AV at Panasonic Hollywood Labs. Of course, most PC-based games haven't even moved up to the current generation of DVDs from CDs, so it's unclear whether most gaming companies will utilize high-definition DVD formats for some time. The main backer of the HD-DVD format is Toshiba, which by itself has more market dominance than several CE backers on the Blu-Ray side combined, along with smaller players NEC and Sanyo. Toshiba plans to launch its first HD-DVD players in late 2005. In December, even Thomson—which is actually a Blu-Ray disc backer—announced that it also would sell HD-DVD players by late 2005. And an impressive list of entertainment content companies has thrown their weight behind HD-DVD, including Paramount, Universal Studios and Warner Bros. (along with Time Warner-owned New Line Cinema). All of these studios have already announced a significant amount of titles on HD-DVD to be available at the time HD-DVD players are introduced. Toshiba is dedicated to the HD-DVD format and executives staunchly believe they will win the marketing battle for consumers even before Blu-Ray gets its format off the ground in 2006. "The key part of this is going to be driven by content," says Maciek Brzeski, vice president of marketing in Toshiba's storage device division. He says consumers won't care whether the disc has 30 gigabytes or 50 gigabytes of capacity—only that the content they want is ready and available at a good price. Brzeski questions the Blu-Ray camp's ability to jazz consumers about a format that he says offers little more than a few extra gigabytes of storage. "They're going to be marketing technology, and we're going to be marketing products," he says. "It's hard to sell technology to consumers." "Our rich heritage in the development of DVD technology means that we are well equipped for the market transition from DVD to HD-DVD," added Sally, who also serves as Vice-President for the Digital Entertainment Group. "With proven backwards compatibility and real software titles available at launch, we are certain that we can deliver the very best solution in HD-DVD technology for both consumers as well as the content providers." In December, Toshiba and other HD-DVD backers formed the HD-DVD Promotion Group to promote the format, and to ensure early product launches and subsequent market penetration. Other pros and cons seem to bleed together as both formats offer similar features. For example, while HD-DVD touts the ability to create discs with red-laser standard DVD format on one side and blue-laser HD-DVD standard on the other, a Blu-Ray Disc Association spokeswoman points out that JVC announced in December a disc that allows both standard DVD and Blu-Ray content on a single side of the disc. The Blu-Ray camp has argued that single-sided discs are more consumer friendly. The Pricing Strategy In the vital area of picture quality, both formats also have a difficult time differentiating between one another. "Either format can produce a very good image," says Richard Dean, director of technical business development at THX Inc. "To me, it boils down to the price of the equipment and the availability of content." Dean, who has helped master the DVD releases of the Star Wars trilogy and other blockbuster movies, says that consumers won't notice any real quality difference between the formats. But he says HD-DVD may end up with an advantage if it can under price Blu-Ray discs and players. "I think that's going to play a very large role." As for Blu-Ray's greater storage capacity, "more space is always an advantage," Dean says, "but the question is how much more space is really needed." Notes Parsons: "If you start doing HD bonus features, it will suck up capacity very quickly." Intel executives, who first got involved in the working groups for next-generation DVD formats to help avoid a format war, already are bracing for an era of consumer confusion as a Blu-Ray-vs.-HD-DVD scenario takes shape. "We didn't want two formats coming out," says Balogh. "Now we have an even standoff, so neither side wants to compromise whatsoever." Making matters worse, he says, the entertainment studios also are split between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, although more big studios have backed HD-DVD at this point. "The studios will be the kingmakers here," he says. Ultimately, consumers may struggle to figure out what kind of players and media to purchase during the next couple of years. "The most important benefit to the consumer is that the HD-DVD players that we'll be introducing to the market this year will be fully backward compatible with the current DVDs that are already in consumers' homes. With the Blu-Ray formats' backward compatibility isn't so simple," adds Sally. Still, many are wary. "It would be best if we went to market without two formats," says Panasonic's Doherty. "We're very disappointed that we're in a format war." As the battle heats up in 2005 and well into 2006, consumers will decide which format will succeed. This material has been adapted from VISION -- a bi-monthly magazine of the Consumer Electronics Asssociation |
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     New member Username: Rogerw99Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-04 |
As a typical consumer with a slightly better than average understanding of emerging technologies, I cringe at the thought of another VHS/BataMax format war. I remember it all too well. In the end, the consumer lost out on that one and never really knew it. In my opinion, I'd rather wait the extra year for the higher capacity format. Because that marketing line about the consumers not being able to tell the difference in quality is a load of bull! That statement alone “that consumers won't notice any real quality difference between the formats” already tells me that their intent is to compromise quality for content amount. Have these marketing types forgotten that consumers actually like the zoom function sometimes? And this one “consumers won't care whether the disc has 30 gigabytes or 50 gigabytes of capacity—only that the content they want is ready and available at a good price”. Higher capacity means higher resolution as a standard! Consumers are no longer the unsophisticated sheep that the media companies would have us be. What may kill the better/later Blu-Ray format is consumer impatience for immediate satisfaction. And HD-DVD with it's 40% LESS capacity means they will ultimately be limited in their content, quality or both sooner than Blu-Ray. It also means HD-DVD obsolescence 40% sooner. Who would want that? I’m sure that playback backwards compatibility to current DVD standards wont be a problem for Blu-Ray. Especially if they can put both on the same side of the new DVD disc. That’s another winner in my estimation. There’s less chance of ruining a disc when you don’t have to be worried about BOTH sides of a disc being scratched. But then, there is that new armor coating that was developed by TDK, I believe, that could easily solve that problem. In any case, consumers need to STOP listening to all the MARKETING HYPE, take a deep breath, clear their heads and read & understand the facts before committing another format faux pas. |
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Deathman20 Unregistered guest |
Agree with above, personally I'd rather wait til Blu-Ray comes out then getting a HD-DVD setup with less space. I'm a computer man and space is everything. The more space you can have more quality and more extras without the compermise of either one of those. With Blu-Ray its a nice to have an extra 10-20gig space on the disk, thats another 1-2DVD's by today's standards of information on a disk. People should think prior to supporting the wrong format, and more companies will support the HD-DVD due to cheaper cost, but not only that they can make more money off it too, when more people want to buy the next gen player and they want a movie that was on HD-DVD then they will buy another of the same movie that they already have. I'm waiting til 06 or 07' before I even get an HDTV so I'm at no loss for waiting til the smoke settles in this war, but I hope Blu-Ray to be the winner. |
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Todd A Unregistered guest |
The thing is an HDTV format movie can fit no problems on either disk, so the size is not really the issue. I personally would have liked MS WM9 to be usable in more DVD players (Kiss is the only one I know of) because it can do pretty good HDTV and still fit on a standard DVD. I have 3 IMAX special additions that come on DVD and WM9-HD (two disk set) and the WM9-HD is VERY impressive. I can only play it on a computer though because of the lack of players. Now I am unsure of the compression formats that will be used for each, but WM9 was one of them and it would be nice if they used this and the few WM9-HD movies that people have (like me) could play. The only problem is if the do not use an MPEG2 HD DVD format they need to pay royalties to be backwards compatable with current DVDs. Backwards compatability is a VERY BIG issue. If either one of these formats does not support standard DVDs it will not survive. If neither does, the addoption of any HD DVD/Blue Ray will be massively slowed, which will slow the addoption of HDTVs all together. This would be bad. |
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cowardly dragon Unregistered guest |
The PC aspect here makes it this race different. Beta/VHS didn't have data storage as a dual requirement.<br> <br> Consumers may not care about 30GB vs. 50GB, but the PC people sure as hell will. And since the growth of PCs that output video to TVs is growing so quickly, the markets are converging.<br> <br> I think the superior technology will win this time. Blu-Ray just has more buzz I think. |
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bcrt Unregistered guest |
yeah.. i don't understand quite fully what the HD-DVD guys are trying to prove.. their format is only 3 times larger than a DVD.. and I guess with codecs that have higher compression (WMV9?) you can fit maybe 4-6 hours worth of 1080p quality on an HD-DVD, but i've heard their standard format will fit around 2 hours at 1080p which sucks.. i don't want to upgrade to a cinema quality picture only having to switch discs and what not while watching movies like Lord of the Rings: Return of the King or the Godfather II... Blue Ray's 50 GB capacity + ability to have a DVD9 layer as well so that the disc can play both on DVD players and Blue Ray players is really what we need.. because then if i don't have a bigscreen TV yet/haven't invested in a Blue Ray player, I can just buy the Blue Ray version and watch it on a standard DVD player, and then when I do make the jump I don't have to buy a new copy another thing i must say, i think the hi-def format battle has come too soon, theres still too many people with non-HDTV's |
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deezus Unregistered guest |
I think they should join forces and share the huge pie known as dvd sales...come on you know they will have so many different versions of a movie it will be like printing money....how about this blu-dvd or maybe blu-hddvd....whatever just become as one....... |
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OldTechGuy Unregistered guest |
I'd love to have an HD option on some movies. But I don't want to have to replace all my media like I did when going from magnetic to optical. There are some movies I don't think warrant it. I'm leery of Blu-Ray. I'm not seeing the information in the latest write ups but I distinctly remember reading how they were not really about HD content and more concerned with copy protection. Cowardly Dragon mentioned WM9. I'm generally the last guy to jump on any MS wagon but do the Blu-Ray people have a better option? I certainly don't trust anything Sony more than anything MS. If WM9 has an equal or better picture with better compression then losing some space may be worth it. Especially if I get to back up my movies. And that's not code for steal: I purchase my movies and don't appreciate being treated like a criminal by the manufacturers by putting copy protection on the product designed to thwart only home users rather than real pirates. If Blu-Ray is about content and quality then sign me up. But be sure it's not really about control before you eschew HD-DVD. |
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kodiak81 Unregistered guest |
No matter how much is said about the data capacity the winning format will be the one p0rn industry goes with. The BluRay has far too many big companies backing it, that might lead to the format being under corporate control too much, plus early BluRay drives used a cartridge system just like the DVDRam. |
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Anonymous |
There's one thing this guy forgot to mention about the VHS vs BETA war that raged in the late 70's, early 80's. SEX, yes, it was the sex industry that tipped the balance in favor of the VHS format back then, because the company that was backing BETA back then didn't want any adult content to be produced and sold on his format. Read the history books people, and yes, that includes you too Sony, don't repeat the mistakes of the past or it could cost you dearly because in the end it wasn't about technological superiority, but the nature of the twisted human psyché. Such an interesting part of our techie past :P. |
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Anonymous121212 Unregistered guest |
Things might have changed since I read about this stuff, so I might be talking rubbish, but... I'd also like to hear more about codecs. It wasn't covered in this article (which only focussed on storage capacity), but the last I heard both formats had bad deficiencies. HD-DVD's was its comparatively poor capacity, but it was going to use a better codec (MPEG4?) in order to improve the image quality and storage capacity over current DVDs. Blu-Ray has the better capacity (in raw GB terms), but was stupidly going to stick with the old (MPEG2?) codecs, thus crippling its own potentiial. If Blu-Ray was using a more advanced codec, it would have everything, but they passed up the opportunity to provide a genuinely superior alternative. HD-DVD might not be as technologically inferior as the Blu-Ray people would have us think. I also think that if either side expects any new format to be adopted with the same fervour as DVDs, they're in for a horrid surprise. |
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Unregistered guest |
Blu-Ray just wins this battle hands down. Not because it's better or will have more movies. It will win because 40-50 million US (and likely a majority of Japanese and European) homes will have a Blu-Ray player by 2008 - It's called the Playstation 3. Why buy a HD-DVD player if you already own a Blu-Ray PS3? As to conversion difficulties, manufacturers will convert their plants not to make movies but to make PS3 game discs. Since MS/XBOX2 will use a standard DVD drive, HD-DVD will be locked out of the next-gen game system market. All big burning houses will support Blu-Ray so they can get a piece of the PS3 market. The PS3 is the "viral phage" that Sony needs to win the format war. Lots of people will buy a cheap DVD player, but the new single purpose HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players will start out very expensive (as all new format players do). The PS3 will sell as a videogame console with Blu-Ray movies as a bonus. Consumers will buy movies for the player they already have, not buy a second (and initially very expensive) one. Sony wins this fight easily. |
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Unregistered guest |
Great article - thanks. It's worth thinking about the fact that before investing in this new technology the average consumer, while more savvy than in the past will definitely consider predominantly: 1. Whether they can play their "old" DVDs on a new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player 2. Whether they will notice a significant improvement in image quality or content over their existing (relatively cheap) DVDs. I believe that: 1. If HD-DVD players can provide backward compatibility at a cheaper cost, people will buy such players regardless of capacity. And with just cause - who wants to renew their entire DVD collection as well as getting an expensive new player? This will be a major factor in who the ultimate winner will be. 2. Since most people don't have a 1080p-capable (and in most cases not even a decent 1080i-capable) HDTV, and probably wont for another few years at least, then the answer to the second question is that consumers will not notice a significant quality improvement, so whichever costs less will win out. Once again this is HD-DVD. Important to note that from a PC gamer perspective (being the owner of TweakGuides.com I understand this quite well  ) - 30GB is enough for most PC games well into the near future. Given even the largest games so far are 5GB, and given improvements in compression techniques, it's hard to believe PC games will blow out to 50GB in the next few years. If they do, 2 HD-DVDs will be as fine as 1 Blu-Ray disk anyway - hardly a cost blowout. So while I'm actually all for Blu-Ray the format sounds too much like a premium product at a premium price, and the price doesn't seem like it will fall until 2008 at the earliest. As someone who owns 130 DVDs and a HDTV, and some tech knowledge, I favor Blu-Ray, but realize that it cannot compete with HD-DVD on the consumer market. And let's be honest, most older movies simply will not look that much better at 1080p than they do at 576i - doubling the resolution of a grainy image simply increases the visible graininess. I'd love to have a format which is more future-proof, but once again even 50GB is hardly future proof either. Let's not pretend that by going with Blu-Ray, we can build up Blu-Ray movie collections which will last more than 5 years before the next tech wave comes through. HD-DVD promises cheaper sooner and that may be just enough of a consumer edge to relegate Blu-Ray to be the MiniDisc as opposed to the Compact Disc (to use an audio analogy). |
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HD Guru Unregistered guest |
PS2 had little affect on the adoption of the DVD format according to known statistics. PS3 won't be any different. |
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Freddo-jenix Unregistered guest |
I say Go Blu-Ray!! ... ... (cos it's WAY too much of a mouthful to say: Go Aitch-Dee-Dee-Vee-Dee)! ... also I'd rather back my 200GB hard disk to-... well, most of the disc is kept empty for video editing temp files, but I'd like to make a disc image with all my fave programs installed and 50GB would be wayyy better for that... |
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Bladen Unregistered guest |
Blu-Ray supports MPEG 2, MPEG 4 and Microsofts VC-1 (formely known as VC-9). I believe VC-1 (WM9) is better than MPEG 4, thats what Microsoft say anyway... |
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Anonymous |
PS3 discs will be pressed by Sony's DADC arm, so it's not like PS3 alone would drive broad replication capacity in support of BD. Given the replication issues still clouding BD-ROM's future (still no reference design, no BD-ROM lines exist outside of the lab, no line equipment available for sale, even after 6 months of availability no replicator has purchased a Sony PTR-3000 BD mastering system, etc.), Sony's recent public peace offering might be their way of saying uncle on the ROM side of the equation, realizing that there's still major coin to be made on the recording side of the equation where BD shines. |
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Deadmeat Unregistered guest |
This article is already outdated. Sony's new President already announced his willingness to compromise around HD-DVD if the patent loyalty payment dispute is settled. Even Sony's president doesn't think BD-ROM stands a chance against HD-DVD with content providers overwhelmingly preferring HD-DVD over BD-ROM, the whole battle is futile. |
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Unregistered guest |
HD-DVD CODECs supported are Microsoft's VC-1 (windows media), MPEG2 and MPEG4. Blu-Ray is supporting the same Microsoft VC-1 and MPEG2. This is obviously a win for Microsoft either way. I have the T2 Extreme Edition which has the full length movie in 1080i in Windows Media format and it looks amazing! It takes a 3 GHz+ PC with a 128 MB DirectX 9 card to play so it takes major house power. Seeing they can already put full length movies in HD on a normal DVD I wonder if this battle truely needs to be faught between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. PaulW |
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Abram Unregistered guest |
I'd much rather wait for Blu-Ray. I work in high def video creation, and the extra space never goes to waste. |
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TWill_1 Unregistered guest |
I am 100% for blue ray as long as the blue ray players will also play my 200+ DVD's. If this is not possible i would have to back HD-DVD. Some guy above stated that blue ray needed cartages to play: well he is misinformed!!! Any how, the only way I would ever think of buying a HD-DVD player is if the blue ray would not play my HUGE investment in DVD movies. I am 100% for blue ray as long as the blue ray players will also play my 200+ DVD's. If this is not possible I would have to back HD-DVD. Some guy above stated that blue ray needed cartages to play: well he is misinformed!!! Any how, the only way I would ever think of buying a HD-DVD player is if the blue ray would not play my HUGE investment in DVD movies. |
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Anonymous |
I'm boycotting Toshiba. In this scenario, BIGGER is better. 30 GB is not enough. Remember this is going to be a storage medium too folks. In the end it will most likely be HD-DVD. Let's face it, VHS was inferior to beta in every way as well and who won out in the end? VHS and everyone but the consumer. My greatest hope is that HD-DVD's market share (which they will attain because most consumers are idiots) will force Blu-Ray to become equally as affordable as well as fully backward compatable. As to re-buying your whole DVD library, don't even stress it. Most all movies even today are shot on film, don't ask me why. (*cough* film snobs *cough*) Film up-converted to HD still looks like film and 24fps still looks old-fashioned even when converted to 30. Personally I think we as consumers need to refuse to purchase a single high definition disc until we are offered the best of both worlds. They can't force feed us and believe me, they want us to eat it up. There is so little HD content out there right now. The only thing that makes sense is to wait for the real deal. |
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mypcrocks Unregistered guest |
first, standard dvd's are not going too disappear overnight they will get cheaper & cheaper when HD-DVD comes and untill the cost of HD players and disc's falls near. The masses will vote with there wallets first. second, unless there is a all-in-one solution to HD the first to fill shops & videoshelf's is going to have a huge headstart (HD-DVD 6mths+)? it could be all over before it starts! third, most people don't understand HDTV (1080i 576P ect) don't think it will be any different here. they will buy wot the salesman tells them will make that $5000+ overpriced plasma/LCD he sold them last year look EVEN BETTER (my $175 HDTV card on 19" crt monitor with 5.1 THX speakers & sound card looks better) lastly, true HD gaming is a long way off yet (pc) how long will we wait for half-life3,Doom4???? So who will win the HD war? if its cheap looks good and DAD can run up a copy. who cares!! NOT YOUR AVERAGE JOE!!! (and thats where most of the money is)FOLKS. |
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E.T Unregistered guest |
"The BluRay has far too many big companies backing it, that might lead to the format being under corporate control too much..." Completely wrong, if "Hollywood" is strongly behind HD-DVD you can bet they're planning some heavy restrictions to limit its use. Also considering space... HDTV-video just happens to require much over FOUR times as much space as normal TV-res video. So I can't see any reason for selecting some smaller capacity media while its opponent offers 60% more space... or maybe except fact they want media which will become obsolete faster. And they better upgrade framerate, current framerate of DVD video s**ks. (also increases space requirement) "true HD gaming is a long way off yet (pc)" 1600x1200 isn't enough? |
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gabbagabbahey Unregistered guest |
This reminds me of the silly DVD-Audio vs SACD war: 80% of consumers own simple electronics and are uninterested in high resolution, be it audio or video. DVD and CD triumphed because of convenience, not quality. The real battle (me against my friends) is Cd against mp3, DVD against DiVX -or crappy avi downloads-. |
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Imtiaz Haider Unregistered guest |
I live in Asia. Over here, VHS still dominates a large share of the market pie. But DVD is only making an appearance and it is doing it with a bang. People owning a DVD player understand why this is important. Extra special content, extra audio, choice of subtitles are some of the things that can make a DVD more of a must have attraction over VHS. The hard fact is, people still buy/rent VHS's because it is cheap to buy/record/rent one. Oh, one hard fact about DVD's in Pakistan. It was the Playstation2 and Xbox consoles that drived the DVD sales into almost 25% of the market and increasing. If Playstation 3 will be supporting Bluray drive as default. I'll leave the readers to speculate what will happen to the format war in my country. HD-DVD? No one ever heard of that over here pals. Playstation 2 was sold in large quantities when it cameout. I'm expecting the same to be true with Playstation3, which will debut in May'05 at Electronic Entertainment Expo and to be officialy mass released in Japan/USA in the first quarter of 2006. Matter of fact I got 300GB of anime on my PC. My HDD's are filled to the brim. To relieve myself of all this data(or back it up) I need something that can store it all in 2 or 3 discs. Not in 30+ DL-DVDR's or 18 HD-DVD's. I want my 300GB to be transferred to 6 blurays in under 2 hours. How's that for a thought from Pakistan? |
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Anonymous |
i would like to say sth as a average consumer, a lot of ppl post in this thread know the difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray (i know it now), but as an average consumer, i would choose whatever come out first preferably with lower price! if i see the amazing HD image of my favourite movie, i would not hesistate to buy it immediately without considering whether the dics is 30GB or 50GB, even though someone tell me that by next year u can have the same HD movie together with some HD feature in it. since i buy the first one, i would buy another HD-DVD next to enjoy the use of the HD-DVD player. this is the so-called first mover advantage. i'm also a gamer, from gamer view point, first of all, most PC games are still using CD rather than DVD, and most games are 3D, the content on the screen is unlimited just depending on the processing power of the graphic card, one can display the content using 2560x1440 if and only if the graphic card has enough processing power, the 3D info are all store in the HD of the PC, the disc is only use for verifying the genuinity of the software, a CD will do the job. Regarding PS3, it will not be available earlier than the Blu-Ray. And moreover, the primary motive of buying the PS is to play games, for playing game, i don't care what media it uses. If someone primary motive of buying a PS3 for movie, it will look whether the media is popular, so if HD-DVD is more popular, those ppl won't buy a PS3 for movie. i'm not opposing Blu-Ray, but ppl just hate waiting, of course, if when the HD-DVD comes out, the Blu-Ray annouces that it will be available by next month, ppl won't mine waiting for a better options, but that isn't the fact. |
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New member Username: CthulhuLewisville Dallas, Texas Post Number: 9 Registered: Jun-04 |
"i'm not opposing Blu-Ray, but ppl just hate waiting, of course, if when the HD-DVD comes out, the Blu-Ray annouces that it will be available by next month, ppl won't mine waiting for a better options, but that isn't the fact." i don't mind waiting... i'm not buying anything until there's just one format available. end of story. i, like 90% of the people out there, don't even have a hd television yet...and probably won't in 2006 either. i'll let all the people with more money than sense duke it out and i'll wait till it's over. i just hope that the better format wins, unlike beta and vhs. =) |
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New member Username: Audio_highMountain View, CA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-05 |
I am the owner of a high-end audio/home theater store (www.audiohigh.com), and it is depressing to see this type of format war yet again. There are some good comments here. I agree that most people have never heard of SACD and DVD-A (including Tower Records employees....), but I think the case is a little different for video. A lot more people are buying HDTVs than high-resolution music transports, and people will know about Blu-Ray and HD-DVD soon enough. I personally am rooting for Blu-Ray, and I am sure manufacturers will make players that are backward-compatible with 480i DVDs. But having seen VHS win over Beta, Microsoft win over Apple, and Republicans win over Democrats, I know that evil exists in the world, and consumers usually lose to corporate greed. Sigh. Michael Audio High |
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Pbmax542 Unregistered guest |
"Republicans win over Democrats" This thread is cracking me up. I too believe that Blu-ray is the better tech, but I bet I will own both players by the end of 2006. I plan to pick up my HD-DVD player the day that they come out. I just wish they would hurry up and release them already. I want my movies to look as good as CSI on CBS, and the sooner the better. This format war could last a long time, and I don't want to wait for a winner. I NEED HD MOVIES NOW!!!! BTW, the winner of the war will be determined by which technology shows up at Blockbuster first. Regards, Louie |
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Anonymous |
in business sense, HD-DVD has both the first mover advantage and the price edge, Blu-Ray has the tech edge, but the tech edge is not great enough to overcome the time and price advantage of the competitor. imagine HD-DVD comes out 6 month earlier, in six months, ppl want to enjoy the HD, many HD contents will come out, by the time Blu-Ray comes out, a 30% more contents in HD-DVD format is already enough to leave the Blu-Ray in dust,moreover, at that time, HD-DVD will surely compete on price with Blu-Ray since there will be room for price cut 6 months after a product release, so it is hard for blu-ray to fight back. |
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DMF12345 Unregistered guest |
Critical question: WILL EITHER BE RECORDABLE? |
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Potatis Unregistered guest |
Why doesn't the industry just go for HVD (holographic) 1000GB discs with Super Hi-vision (4000 scanlines) instead? Not fair to milk out some cash and/or let people hang around in forums discussing formats that might never take off. I actually don't believe any will succeed unless the discs are 100% backward compatible (have a DVD layer) and are playable in reglar DVD players. You can't introduce a "new" format that has the exact physical appearance as CD and DVD and expect people to adopt it like crazy. Look at DVD-A/SACD, which might actually have succeed if all discs had had to have a CD layer. (But then again, HDCD didn't) |
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Potatis Unregistered guest |
Why doesn't the industry just go for HVD (holographic) 1000GB discs with Super Hi-vision (4000 scanlines) instead? Not fair to milk out some cash and/or let people hang around in forums discussing formats that might never take off. I actually don't believe any will succeed unless the discs are 100% backward compatible (have a DVD layer) and are playable in reglar DVD players. You can't introduce a "new" format that has the exact physical appearance as CD and DVD and expect people to adopt it like crazy. Look at DVD-A/SACD, which might actually have succeed if all discs had had to have a CD layer. (But then again, HDCD didn't) Oh, and I do believe PS3 could get Blu-ray a much better start than PS2 did for DVDs, as PS2 was introduced in 2000 when DVDs already was 4 years old and many people already bought DVD players. |
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Anonymous |
I actually hope that neither HD-DVD nor BLU RAY will catch on... MS supports both, and both include WMV9 as a mandatory codec. This immediately means that any open-source player will NOT play the discs...Not to mention any other protection that will stir things up like DeCSS did... The discs...bluray all the way. Maybe us free people should make a FreeBlue without any restrictions or patents whatsoever....But, like most free stuff, it would be squashed like a bug by MS and Hollywood.....Argh. |
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Anonymous |
I'm missing something here. Drives will have to have both blue and red lasers, HD decoders will have to deal with both WM 9 and H.264/MPEG4, discs will still have both 50 and 60 frame options. Why can't an HD DVD player play both types of HD disc in which case I'll buy it with my HD screen and not care who wins the HD DVD format war. |
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Potatis Unregistered guest |
latest buzz is that hd-dvd would be used for north america and blu-ray for the rest of the world ..like two physically incompatible regions? |
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Prodigal $on Unregistered guest |
Both formats will be using the H.264 codec also know as MPEG4 part 10 or AVC. This is an open source codec and is the most advanced codec in the world. Do a search and see for yourself. Its what Quicktime 7 is based on. M$ can keep their proprietory technology as we all know open source is the way forward. Price will be the determining factor in the outcome of this battle. Personally im gonna wait! Its what smart people do ;) |
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NoJoo Unregistered guest |
OK, some people just don't get it. 1. HD gaming? Something like that would need 2D-games. On the PC side, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are pointless in gaming. Since all games are installed on the harddrive, they can be compressed really tight. But when using for back-up or mass-storage, size matters. HD-DVD-Rs would need to be over 20% cheaper than Blu-Ray-Rs to win. 2. Sure people will buy PS3 for gaming. But they will notice that it supports Blu-Ray, and will buy Blu-Ray movies. Unless there's notable price difference with HD-DVDs. 3. It doesn't matter how many in individuals are smart, or how smart, people are still stupid. They'll go right for the convenient one. Meaning the lower priced and maybe first. 4. In the end few people have need for HD-content right now, or a year from now. They're rushing it needlessly. Almost as if HD-DVD people fear that Blu-Ray will "get there first" or something. Anyway, most people won't care of either one for a long time, so those who have more money for tech-stuff will start the voting. Hard to say which side those will choose. 5. I really consider that side which has the "Hollywood" on their side as the "evil" one. I don't trust Sony much, but a lot less the movie industry. And from what I've heard, the HD-DVDs already have a copyright-thing. 6. Sony going for both doesn't mean that the Blu-Ray sucks, they likely just would like to cover their bases. 7. 20 gigs is still 20 gigs. Nobody seems to remember how with DVDs was thought that "it'll take decades to fill these things" or something along those lines. The more space we get, the more we need. 8. Blu-Ray disks don't have higher production costs themselves, it's only the beginning that costs most. And there's no way that X-Box 2 (or Next) will use normal DVDs. Doesn't make sense. From what I've learned, beta was first and had better quality, but TVs at that time were so bad, few saw the difference. Also Beta had smaller capacity. Short: PS3 will likely have effect on winner. Most people don't need HDTV-stuff. Most people will go for the cheaper. PC-users will likely go for the larger capacity. PC-games will likely go for normal DVDs for years to come. Personally I'm for Blu-Ray, but believe that this will indeed be a difficult war. Placing bets on either side will be extremely risky. If one should buy either a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD device, it should be made for support of that format. Otherwise, it is just foolish. |
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Unregistered guest |
Thats right - Hd Dvd will will be cheaper and thats what counts for most people. PC users, most likely, will not like to wait half a year for a better format. |
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New member Username: Omega3002Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-04 |
Well.... whoever wins, I think that Hollywood should be careful about the whole double-dip issue. You don't want to alienate consumers by forcing them to upgrade to the new format because it will include added footage or bonus features. Just too early and ugly at this point to make any kind of predictions. DVDs are extremely popular and I think the majority of folks are going to shy away from the whole HD scene for a long time, so I don't think it matters who gets out the door first. Cost is important but people still want the most for their money and that depends on the type of consumer. Me, for example, would opt for Blu-ray because of its higher capacity I could also use for PC storage. I think PS3 will be a strong driving force for Blu-Ray that Sony will force but the PS3 will NEVER EVER EVER use all that space. The Xbox2 is a big question mark right now but I doubt they will go with Blu-ray because of cost. Nintento will probably still use some variant of their mini-DVD format but I am just speculating. Most movie studios are probably going to opt for HD-DVD because of cost and piracy protection. But I seriously don't see one format winning over the other. Neither side is going to give up and I seriously think we are going to get stuck with two formats. Even though the idea of a universal media format sounds nice and is ideal, in the real world its just not practical. Look at the whole DVDA/SACD/DualDisc mess we're in. Most people are going to stick with CD and mp3 for a long time to come. So these are very small niche markets, but I support them wholeheartedly. It all depends on the type of consumer, and in my case I am very interested in high resolution audio. But most people don't care and are going to stick with mp3s etc because of cost and convenience (and to be honest most people dont care about or notice a difference in the quality). Its a shame but these are the facts of life. In the mean time, I'm going to continue to enjoy HDTV on my 60" Sony Grand Wega IV and my DVD/CD/DVDA/SACD/DualDisc collection using some very high end equipment. Have a nice day :-) BTW, I think the whole PSP/UMD movies thing is a complete joke. Whoever falls for this crap should check their brain for damage. I predict imminent death for this junk. Maybe if they offered this crap for sane prices... My post was based on opinion and speculation so don't flame. |
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Bronze Member Username: DatraderPost Number: 12 Registered: Mar-05 |
Forget abot HD-DVD or blu-ray. Microsoft has already had Media Player 9 HD format (1080p). If microsoft can work with movie studio and have movie in this format, I will just connect my PC to my HDTV to watch movie (they have already had few short movies in 1080p). If microsoft moves fast to get the content, both HD-DVD and blu-ray will miss out. Downloading the 1080p movies will take too long. If netflix can ship 1080p HD movies hard drives that can be played on PC, there will be no need for blu-ray for the purpose of watching HD movies, since in the foreseable future, the best TVs can only display 1080p movies. |
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NoJoo Unregistered guest |
It's not feasible to sell movies on harddisks, hence the HD-DVD/BluRay -thing. But like I mentioned, it's not current. People have just bought/buying DVD-stuff. They need a good reason to change to the next format. It's not as much waiting, as it is just not caring. Where does it mention that BluRay will be out half-year later? All I remember seeing, is that it'll be later, but not how much. As a PC user, I will rather not think "right now", as much as "in the long run", in which case BluRay is definetly better. 20G somehow adds up, even by itself. Also, it's not how much it costs, it's how much you get for your money. If you see a disk for 3 dollars and one for 5, knowing that the first has 30GB and the latter 50GB, there's no sure winner. If it's $3 and $4, 50 gigs is the choice. The UMD-thing is quite funny. I wouldn't pay over 5 bucks, if even that, to see a movie on such a small screen. Or on the move. Good thing everyone should be able to rip their own movies for the PSP, eh? |
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ElectricHead Unregistered guest |
Hey, wake up now! Whoever supports Blu-Ray is working against his own interests. SONY is kinda evil - higher prices, compatibility problems, ridiculous copy protections..... Don't get fooled, HD-DVD is a more 'open' standard - there is much more capacity possible in the future - not so easy with Blu-Ray. Honestly, there is not 1 argument to support Blu-Ray. Regards |
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TDO Unregistered guest |
BD-R and BD-RE (rewritable) are in developement. Also, a BD triple drive is in developement, it supports CD, DVD and BD. |
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IronCamel Unregistered guest |
Most people are forgetting one very important thing here. The average consumer isn't gonna make a difference in the first six months because the players will be too expensive to make them feasible. I bought my first DVD player in 1997. It was an entry level JVC and cost me $700 on an open box buy. Only one video store in town had DVDs to rent (12 total), and they were around $25-30 to buy. This doesn't even include things like before dual layer DVD when we had "flipper" discs where you had to flip it half way through like with Laserdisc. How many "average" consumers would have made that purchase? The first players will be so expensive no one but the die hard early adopters will be willing to buy them. It will be at least 2-3 years before these players are in the price range of the "average" consumer. Till then their choice means nothing. The people who are willing to shell out $1k or more for the first players will have a HUGE influence on who wins. Most of these people will adopt Blu-Ray because of it technical superiority. The DVD disc took nearly 5 years on the market before it started setting sales records and being adopted en masse. Partially because of player price (read: sub $300) and partially because the movies came down to $10-15 each. It doesn't matter what the "average" consumer will do that you should be worrying about. It's the guys with lots of disposable cash that will pick the winner. |
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Anonymous |
Blu-Ray? HD-DVD? Heck, I'm still buying LASERDISCS, people As a third option, there's always D-VHS. |
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Anonymous |
I don't think we will have to worry about these players costing as much as the original DVD players did. DVD did not have to fight a war, and therefore it didn't have to be competitively priced. I bet the first HD-DVD players will be around $4-5 hundred, but once Blue-Ray comes out, the prices will start to fall. By the end of 2006 an HD-DVD player will be around $200, and that is not out of most people's price range. |
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cowtalk Unregistered guest |
I am horrified at the thought of another Beta/VHS fiasco. I hope we don't make the incredibly stupid move of again adopting an inferior format, in this case HD-DVD. Why would consumers choose the technologically inferior HD-DVD over Blu-Ray? It's a bizarre paradox. Wouldn't an HD-DVD purchaser be buying it because of it's superiority to DVDs? Of course. So why would that same purchaser not purchase Blu-Ray since it is better than HD-DVD? Do you see the frustrating madness. We can only hope that we aren't stupid enough to eliminate the technically superior Blu-Ray. For decades we suffered with the inferior VHS format when we could've had Beta. Are we bound to repeat ourselves again. I agree with others that it's an insult to say we as "consumers can't tell the difference." But they as technocrats can? They are superior, but we can't tell the difference. Isn't it odd that the same people tell us we need to buy HD tv's and HD-DVD so we can see the difference. But they claim there is a cap to our visual and aural senses and the cap is HD-DVD. I say that's ridiculous. I say the technology cap is Blu-Ray. But that's still not the ultimate cap. We see 1000 lines of resolution in HD, and we see it interlaced (720 progressive). I still notice the inferiority to film in even the best HD tv's. Right now, blu-ray is the best. But we still have further to go. We need 4000 lines of resolution if we want to kill film. Right now, Blu-Ray's the best we've got. Why the devil would we pick HD-DVD's paltry attempt. Buy Blu-Ray. Even if you have to wait a couple of months. Don't make the rest of us wallow in VHS world again. |
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Anonymous |
Sony, Toshiba Seek Unified DVD Format @ Yahoo. |
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Anonymous |
I would choose blu-ray over hd-dvd simply because it is more advanced, and the storage capability is extremely necessary. However, I did a school presentation on blu-ray and had to do extensive research etc. I discovered that blu-ray has encryption that is said to be impossible to crack because it changes every 6kbytes. If you want to know more about blu-ray, read about it here; http://www.blu-ray.com/ and also search on google etc. This would mean bad news if you want to back up your high definition movies. |
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Anonymous |
The market itself will choose the best to survive, the best may not be in pure technical terms. price, transition, content support, that's the reality. As in many case, price and content support always rule. in the past, the capital letter name thing always wins, some ppl just don't know what is Blu-Ray, or even can't pronounce it. |
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Anonymous |
Reuters reports More Electronics Firms Join Debate to End DVD War. |
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Fazal Majid Unregistered guest |
A pox on both houses. Blu-Ray is clearly superior, but I am going to sit this one out. No matter how this turns out, early adopters are the ones most likely to be screwed. |
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Tiger Unregistered guest |
Disc capacity is not the issue, Toshiba already has methods of increasing it immensely. Sony is all about greed and to lock up a format - it's all about their PS3 - doesn't anyone get it? Hollywood does and that's why they won't support BluRay. BluRay is a new format, unlike DVD and not even compatible. Sony is now on their knees knocking on Toshiba's door, they have no choice, they know they were beat. |
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ElectricHead Unregistered guest |
Tiger is absolutely right, the people who think Blu-Ray has more capacity didn't understand the whole problem with SONY. Blu Ray is completely IDIOTIC. |
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Muerte sony Unregistered guest |
The only good format sony invented was Betamax. MiniDisc - piece of sh*t. CD - was not good in the first 10 years (sound quality). SACD - they lied about the quality and technique - far worse than DVD-Audio. BluRay - nobody needs it cos HD-DVD is better in nearly every aspect. |
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Bronze Member Username: DatraderPost Number: 14 Registered: Mar-05 |
http://news.com.com/Warner+Bros.%2C+Microsoft+team+on+high-def+format/2100-1041_ 3-5675480.html the HD DVD war is over, as long as i can find movies in microsoft wmv9.0 format. There are already a bunch of movies (T2, etc) in this format on amazon, in DVD. This format all I need. I prefer playing movie via my computer, with DVI output to my HDTV. No need to buy another HD DVD or bue ray player. let them drag their feet, they are loosing this already. microsoft and the moview studio should work together put more movie in wmv HD format. There is a HUGE demand for this! I hope someone from MS or hollywood is reading this. |
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Bronze Member Username: DatraderPost Number: 15 Registered: Mar-05 |
more wmv 9.0 HD movie tiles that can be played on PC available: http://www.highdefinitionrentals.com/CDA5240F87574D8387EBDE8FEC733210/store/stor e.asp?OpenA=1809&nProductTypeID=1809 this eliminates the need for another hd dvd or blu ray player ... HD movies are here already ... |
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rEject Unregistered guest |
Anyone saying anything about PS3 needs to get with the times... Sony has announced that it is working on a hybrid. So let's all end this debate and move on... k... good |
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Troy Heagy Unregistered guest |
"30GB is enough for most PC games well into the near future. Given even the largest games so far are 5GB, and given improvements in compression techniques," . You've forgotten your own past. Look at how games have scaled during the last decade: 1990 = 1 megabyte (final fantasy 3) 1995 = 8 megabyte (final fantasy 6) 2000 = 2500 megabyte (ff9) 2005 = 10,000 megabytes (dual layer xenosaga 2) Games are already approaching HD-DVD's 30,000 megabyte limit. It would be silly to pick a standard that game-makers would quickly fill up. If technology keeps growing as it did 1990-to-2005, games will be at ~50,000 megabytes! troy |
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DVDtech Unregistered guest |
Nobody has mentioned H.264. H.264 is the compression codec being used for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray formats. |
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dunlop Unregistered guest |
Does anyone remember who decided the VHS vs Beta war? It's the same people that will decide the HD-DVD vs Blu Ray war. The Adult Film Industry. It's no joke. Both the CE Sponsers and Toshiba are courting the multi billion dollar XXX industry very hard to get them on board. In the end, watch which way the adult film industry leans because that will decide the winner. |
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Daerc Unregistered guest |
Honestly, the way I look at it is this. Which would you rather have as an owner of a company? A format which you can use with only a cheap upgrade, that you can easily produce discs with, or a format that is a bit larger, but is vastly more expensive if you do equivalent space, and where you'd have to retool your entire shop? Toshiba has gotten the HD-DVDs up to 45 gig already, so who knows how it will end. |
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Dutchman Unregistered guest |
I cannot believe how many postings are just looking at the situation today and mostly talking about movie storage. The V in DVD stands for Versatile - not Video. The future DVD disks will to a very large extent be used for data storage and the PC players will no doubt cost approximately 25-30% of the high-end living room models. The normal 4.7 Gb storage space on a single-layer DVD of today is VERY SMALL. That is why everybody uses dual-layer DVD's to get to 9 Gb. Having a new technology with the capacity of 1.5 old DVD's is no huge step for mankind. If you do any form of home movie editing you easily end up with approx 12 Gb of raw material which you might want to save for future re-editing purposes. 9 Gb of hard disk space was also "enough" 4 years ago. People might be better off waiting for dual-layer versions of the new standard since the single-layer does not take you very far, especially not with HD-DVD. I am not sure about the XXX industry but my understanding is that price is also quite important there, meaning that they will stick to conventional DVD's rather than going for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. And don't they still use VHS picture quality on their DVD's ... ;-) |
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The General Unregistered guest |
It'll be interesting for those of us still around in 30 years to look back on this debate. <heh> There'll likely be some debate raging about which Bioorganic semi-AI storage format is best. And someone will inevitibly say that 700TB is plenty, why do we need 800? |
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John Lewis Unregistered guest |
Remember that Blu-Ray disks are far more susceptible to non-repairable damage than HD-DVD. Remember the 0.1mm thickness to the recording surface vs 0.6mm. Don't want use your DVD/CD polisher on a Blu-Ray disk. If the DVD rental people such as Netflix and Blockbuster weigh in, the result should be a foregone conclusion in favor of HD-DVD |
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Anonymous |
I agree completely with IronCamel, the first-gen players and recorders for both formats will be priced out of the range of most consumers. I understand that prices will be lower with competition, but they certainly won't be low enough after one year. Although I haven't seen any statistical data supporting it, my opinion is that they're aren't enough HDTV owners in the world to sustain the kind of high volume sales that low prices would require. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will face the same struggles as DVD-Audio and SACD. They only offer improved quality--no extra convinience. How long has it taken for DVD-Audio and SACD players to cost less than $300.00? (no really, tell me. I don't know.) I recently bought a 30" HDTV, but only because it cost $400; I wouldn't have bought for the usual price of $800. In the end, Blu-Ray will probably win. Why? Because PS3 will sell tens of millions of units. Some of you are saying that PS3 will be bought for gaming only, and that the Blu-Ray support won't matter. I don't think so. The fact that it's a gaming machine means that Sony can sneak a Blu-Ray player into our entertainment rooms without even trying. Lots of people will buy a $300-$500 gaming console, which just so happens to play Blu-Ray disks. Not many will buy a $300-$500 Blu-Ray player, which may or may not play DVD's. Ultimately, whichever format's player/recorder ends up in Wal*Mart first will be the winner. ( ^_^ ) |
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gung Unregistered guest |
who cares who wins blu ray or hd dvd . we the consumer want a player that will be multi format . play blu ray and hd dvd. |
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dlik23 Unregistered guest |
There's absolutely no reason now to support HDDVD: 1) Blue ray discs will cost the same as current dvds in the long run source: http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050525_144443.html 2) Since PS3 will be compatible with pretty much every format, except hddvd, you can expect other blue-ray disc players to also be compatible with current dvds/cds etc. 3) Blue ray disc won't be out much longer than hddvd http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050503_115512.html So as you can see I really don't see any point behind hddvd. Inferior technology, no gaming system using it and linked with hollywood who only cares about how to protect their movies from piracy |
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dli2k3 Unregistered guest |
Actually, you can find everything about blu-ray on www.blu-ray.com And the 100gb blue-ray will absolutely pwn the hddvd. |
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New member Username: JpjdjpjdPost Number: 1 Registered: May-05 |
people on here that complain about blu ray's protection being more superior and that they won't be able to make copies of their store bought movies should be ashamed! making copies of copyright material is AGAINST THE LAW and in the end is stealing money from my pocket along with all the rest of us who work in the film industry. it's the same with mp3's and music theft. slowly you put more and more people out of work in this industry and lower the quality of movies and music being produced. think before u do. |
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Bronze Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth, Dorset United Kingdom Post Number: 84 Registered: May-05 |
Hear we go again, another why of milking the consumer, us yes. So if there is going to be a future format that’s going to be better over DVD with the HD-DVD format let it be I hope, but I’m not going to pay for something that is going to be over costly it as to be affordable to us the consumer. Everybody is a consumer waver we like it or not, everybody, one thing the data information stored on the disc is greater over DVD so will we see SDDS 8 channel coming to this format as SDDS 8 has been out for 13 years now and Dolby and dts is getting a bit boring for me now, and I believe this is doable and it’s a true 7.1 sound format with five screen channel left, left centre, centre, right centre, and right with split-stereo surrounds and LFE is a must have and with films like the Todd-Ao ones like The sound of music, south pacific, and other titles like my fair lady, west side story, and some of the early six-track Dolby stereo films like Logan’s run which I think had five screen channel and one mono surround, for those who don’t understand, but I’m sure they do. And the original mix for Star Wars which was had the baby boom track that is the left centre and the right centre was replaced with a sub bass track and one mono surround, though engineers realised this was a waste of soundtrack information which is why we have what we call to day 5.1 Dolby digital, thanks to Superman the movie which was the first Dolby 5.1 film as an experiment that worked out very well, and now with the digital domain upon us with many techniques and possibilities to give the home theatre home cinema medium a new meaning in sight and sound. Ashley |
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BLU-RAYkillsHD-DVD Unregistered guest |
I think that the Blu-Ray Disk should win, let me put this in another view: If you can get a car that can get 100-200 miles to the gallon, GREAT!, but if you wait a little longer,you can get a car that gets 140-280 mpg, then you really would rather take that right? I know for a fact that computer people and movie lovers will agree that Blu-Ray is better, 40% more memory! thats like buying a hard drive, think, if BLu-Ray wins, you can basicly back up your ENTIRE HARD DRIVE on 1 or 2 disks. IF YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT HD-DVD IS BETTER THAN BLU-RAY DISKS, THAN I SUGGEST YOU LAY OFF OF THE OPIUM AND METH... |
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Mitch Hanes Unregistered guest |
Here are the specs for both disks: BD__________HD-DVD_____________Type 25gb________15gb ______________Storage* 405nm_______405nm______________Laser w. length 54mbs_______36mbs______________Data Trans. Rate** MPEG2----------MPEG2______-------\ MPEG4 AVC---MPEG4 AVC_---------Supported formats VC1***--------------VC1***_____-------/ *dual layered=x2, dual layer both sides=x4 **How quickly they burn/read ***A.K.A. WMV 9 (Windows Media Video 9) In all aspects the BD won, have the same formats and compatibility as most dvds/video today, and have 40% more capacity for video or software, games have came from roughly 1 megabyte in the early '90s to 10 gigabytes + this year, some people say that an HD-DVD can handle games, but at this rate 50gb from BD is all we can hope for, the film industry wants safety, but p2p networks today will thrash it without a doubt, so disk protection (for copyrights at least) will not honeslty make a large difference). With the exception of new machines to create the BD discs, the BD and HD-DVD will be within 5-10% of eachother in cost, so, you can buy a dual layered HD-DVD for $20, with 14-15 hours of normal, non HD video on it, or a dual layered BD with 28-30 hours of the same stuff on it for only $21-22. The Playstation 3 will gratly help launch the format of BD, in Japan, the first year of the PS2's debut the dvd market rose roughly 40%! If the PS3 can pull that off the price of the equipment and media for BD will drop drastically and become alot more consumer and business friendly. HD-DVD has the film industry backing it, but BD has over 15 of the leading franchises/businesses in digital and computer medium, from Sony to Toshiba, JVC to Panasonic, the list goes on. As for us computer people and gamers, the BD is best, being able to back up an 80gb hard drive on 2 dual layer discs or 1 dl/ds'ed disk is awesome, and, a vast majority of games will be able to be played straight from the disc, without the need to compress memory to fit a game on a disc, valuable hd space will be kept for other things... for photographers you can put thousands of high quality pics on ONE disc. I don't know about you, but once you lay down the facts and balance the pros and cons for both meduims of digital entertainment, the choice is like picking a multi-million dollar mansion, or a broken down hovel in Ethiopia. |
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Anonymous |
the fact is better is not always winner, we, as a consumer, want better stuff for the same price. but consumer wants the content rather than the disc itself, so whichever gets more content support will win. just like people will buy the game console with more games. BR gets more computer related support, but the fact is that not every computer being used is equipped with even a DVD-ROM. BR has to get the movie industry support to win. |
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anuva person Unregistered guest |
seriously, who uses there ps2 or xbox to watch dvds? I myself bought a stand alone dvd player first, only children want the game console before a stand alone movie player. Whoever suggested that sony is trying to use the ps3 as a ploy to dominate with there blu ray format is right. |
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eric daluka Unregistered guest |
think about it people who think the ps3 will be the main factor to the war. If the hd dvd format takes off when it comes out, i'm sure sony will release the ps3 when its finished with a hd dvd rom instead. Sony may be greedy but they're not morons. |
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Anonymous |
Blu-ray will win this war for one simple reason; Sony. Think about it. How many people bought the PSX when it came out and the PS2? Now, take that into acount and think of the PS3 Anybody who buys a PS3 has a Blu-ray player. That will be an awfull lot of people. Nobody with a PS3 will go out and bu an HD-DVD player. If Sony are invloved in anything, Sony win |
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Anonymous |
Yeah i agree with the above post, Sony have just joined the handheld market. Watch the PSP blow Nintendo (which have dominated this market since the Game Boy) away. |
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Anonymous |
Blu-ray is dumb, at least for movies. Anybody who does much work in movie editing will tell you that increasing the bit rate helps quality, but ONLY TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. There comes a point where the human eye just can't distinguish the quality. I.e., for DVD video, the human eye can't distinguish between a 15mb/sec and 20mb/sec clip. Same holds true for HDTV. The human eye can't perceive the difference between 30mb/sec and 50mb/sec. So why bother encoding at those high bit rates? just so you can fill up that blu-ray disc? blu-ray will be able to hold more content, but it won't be higher quality video, at least not a difference that we can perceive. Blu-ray might be helpful when we have hyper-HDTV (like 2000 lines of resolution), but you are going to be waiting a long time for that happen. Maybe 20 years. Stick to HD-DVD. XBOX 360 will have it, and will be out first. |
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dli2k3 Unregistered guest |
There's no mention so far that xbox 360 will have anything other than cd/dvd. Besides, these discs are not used only for movies. As for PS3 well, it's funny how PS3's spec far outmatch xbox 360's and blu-ray outmatch hddvd . So a PS3 with blu-ray is still the perfect solution. |
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videophile Unregistered guest |
What makes you think that capacity or bitrate has anything to do with quality? What matters is the time and effort the studios devote to any given title. There's a world of difference between a good DVD and a bad one that is all down to the effort put in to encode it. The same would be true of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. This war has got less to do with video quality or what the consumer wants and more to do with revenue from technology licence fees. |
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ruddiger Unregistered guest |
Blu ray will be bleeding edge technology when the PS3 is released. It won't be anywhere near cheap. I don't see how shoehorning very expensive and for 90% of the population, useless technology into a games console is a strategy for success. Sony have a thing for pushing their licensed proprietary formats and they've failed plenty of times. MiniDisc, Memory sticks, ATRAC compression. Their OCD treatment of Betamax licensing prevented adult studios from using the format, which led to the success of VHS, which almost anyone could use. Adult production exceeds that of hollywood movies. If Sony's control freaks even allow adult movies to be published on Blu Ray, adult producers will choose HD-DVD anyway because adult titles are produced in much lower volumes than hollywood, and their manufacturing costs per unit are relatively large because of this. If a factory can spit out HD-DVDs at $1 each, and Blu-Ray is $5, the $4 difference is a significant issue. MGM's library is overhyped. Anything produced before the late 80s will be edited optically and look bad on HD anyway. George Lucas had a team repaint each frame of Star Wars (1977) to get it up to scratch. 99% of old movies aren't going to get that treatment, or anything near it. |
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Annonymous Unregistered guest |
Why are are we fighting about this? Blu-Ray and HD DVD a both going to be fossils (like VHS) in a few years. Within less than a decade we'll have something like pettabyte discs that can be cranked out for under a dollar |
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New member Username: Rayl_jrPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-05 |
Blu-ray has momentum, even if HD-DVD is 1st. History can & does repeat itself often. But I imagine the race to be more like the tortoise & the hare, & Blu-ray eventually will STEAMROLL over the HD-DVD (though HD-DVD could possibly last as long as the zip disk or laserdisc...). Then will come the nano terabit “flash memory-punch card” technology along with nano based paper-thin printable displays... |
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Anonymous |
I think its funny that someone a few posts ago said that the human eye can't tell the difference in the data/bit rate. this maybe true on a small tv but on a large plasma/lcd or high quality projector it makes all the difference. a 27" diag will look the same on blu-ray or just a plain dvd but what about 127" diag picture from a projector? when it comes down to which format wins, it will be determined at the retail level, seller and buyer, if the buyer wants it and its on one format, the seller gets more of that format and they win (for a few years till we have this problem again) ps3s are a mute point because just like ps2 they make only a small portion of dvd playing units sold and used every day |
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Unregistered guest |
While the HDTV technologies are not stable yet, how can we expect a final format for storage? I guess we have to wait for 3-4 four years before things settle down - 1. price 2. technology uniformity and stability 3. availability of content Present DVDs will rule for a while, no doubt. |
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Mackintire Unregistered guest |
Genius whom thinks that bitrate only increases quality a little this is for you. When you have a high action movie that is long in length, such as The Matrix II, there is nowhere enough bitrate to keep the scene clean looking. You would need a HD-DVD amount of space to encoded the movie 720x480 (Normal DVD spec) to keep the movie clean and artifact free. Granted that is one of the most taxing movies on the market. Maybe the anwser is partly that HD-DVD movies should come out as 720P and Blue-Ray movies should be released as either 720P 0r 1080P. Secondly is Blueray wants to will the format war all they have to do is make the manufactures include HD-DVD support into every Blueray player. HD-DVD will initally own the low end markey and Blueray will own the highend. If you want the best experiance then buy Blue-Ray. Include a DVD encode on the otherside of the disk for backward compatibility. As long as Blue-Ray doesn t cost 20% more then HD-DVD they ve got it made. |
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Doax Unregistered guest |
There's no mention so far that xbox 360 will have anything other than cd/dvd. Besides, these discs are not used only for movies. As for PS3 well, it's funny how PS3's spec far outmatch xbox 360's and blu-ray outmatch hddvd . So a PS3 with blu-ray is still the perfect solution. Lol you playstation fan boys kill me. The PS3 doesn't even exist! All that stuff they showed at E3 was all pre-rendered Video with nothing at all to do with the PS3. HD-DVD will win. Anyone want to place some beats? |
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DS2005 Unregistered guest |
Haha, the joke is both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray lose no matter what way you have it. The sad thing is techies read too many tech magazines instead of things that give you a balanced idea of what is going on. The real winners are MS, they unlike Sony or Toshiba, have full backing from Hollywood. Windows Vista supports both formats and many Hollywood companies now want movies streamed or downloaded from the internet. However I still believe Sony have lost it anyhow. They are fighting far bigger companies and have released a complicated and hard to produce format. The average consumer, where it really matters, will not even know the differnce and will (as they always have done) go for the cheaper and simpler format. It is interesting because even the president of Sony believes that the format may be going down the pan. Sony have never won a format war and it is silly to think that they are going to anytime soon. In terms of PS3, well from many surveys we see that does not even matter. We are not going to see the emergence of any form of HD media technology for at least another five years, the same as it took for VHS and DVD. |
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Jon T Unregistered guest |
Those who supposedly understand technology should know that this is not Betamax vs. VHS, this is more like DVD +R vs. DVD -R, or DVD RAM. Sony is trying to put themselves in a monopoly position, and just like Betamax they will fail if they don't start working towards compatibility before it's to late. We have already heard that the price of the PS3 is going to be outrageous, where the DVD HD equipped Xbox 360 will be somewhat of a bargain in comparison. With both of the latter coming to market first, and Microsoft backing HD-DVD, there is no doubt who will win. Since they have already made a 3 layer HD-DVD that holds 45 gb, and word that a 4 layer is on the way, I don't think size is that much of an issue. Since I own a Toshiba 65 HDTV, and think it is the best deal for the money, my vote is for HD-DVD. If Sony really wants to play fair, they better get busy making a player that supports both formats at a decent price. Otherwise they can take their expensive toys and go home. |
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o_O Unregistered guest |
I believe HD-DVD will win, this will be apparent when the movies Sony owns are on the HD-DVD format. |
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DancingMoose Unregistered guest |
As a computer guy, I love the idea of more storage capacity, so I lean towards blu-ray. As a movie consumer, I want something cheap, don't own an HDTV, so I lean HD-DVD. The whole idea behind blu-ray's "watermark" bugs me, as I purchase my movies legaly, then like to store them on a server in my home to stream to different parts of the house. I have no doubt that there will eventually be a decoder, but until that happens, I'm staying away. I think I'll just ride this one out until one stands on top or they become more integrated like DVD-r and DVD+r. I'm in no rush as long as both the new formats will be backwards-compatible. |
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Unregistered guest |
What if, technologically speaking, we were to segregate the two technologies to seperate uses? For example, 15gb/layer v. 20gb/layer may not mean much to mom and pop consumers (far and away the vast majority of current DVD player/media purchasers) who often times are just interested in the films/shows, and maybe some outtakes too. Now on the HD-DVD format, they could still pander to the "Hi-Def" gotta have techie as well as the average consumer market, as they would still be able to provide quality entertainment in an exciting new format to the consumer. More interactive options, Hi-Def quality picture/sound, more media, and a lower price-point (initially) that would lead to quicker introduction into the home markets of the world. From a business stand point, backing HD-DVD for home media usage is the most immediately financially gratifying, as it has the lowest price-point of the two, as well as rather simple manufacturing processes that would require less retooling of current production plants. Technological advances aside, HD-DVD would be a step in the right direction for home media use. Now lets look at the other side of the coin. The tech-savvy Blu-ray format. Far and away technologically superior to HD-DVD, it is clearly the best choice for Gaming, Application, and home PC/MAC usage. First of all, it does have substantially more storage than HD-DVD. Second, and more importantly, it would be much more versatile in its application and developement than HD-DVD. And third, perhaps most important of all, early reports indicate that it would have a faster transfer rate than HD-DVD. And if you ask any techie, speed is often the most important aspect of any network/PC/MAC component. Bearing in mind that consumers are already used to purchasing multiple electronic formats (DVD v. PS2 Discs v. XBox discs v. PC DVD-ROM v. Audio CD v. SCCD, etc.), it would not be very difficult to once again sell them on the idea that Blu-ray is for applications/interactive use, and HD-DVD is for watching movies and music. Though this is antithetical to the typical promises of technological Nirvana (one format, one machine, all data, all uses) put forth by Sony, Microsoft, Toshiba, etc., it would be hard for them, or any media provider, DVD manufacturer, or CE manufacturer to deny the financial rewards of producing multiple forms of content (videogames, audio discs, movie discs, data discs) instead of 1 catch-all format. This is shameful, as I personally think it'd be awesome to buy a movie, get the bonus features, play the videogame of that movie, and listen to the soundtrack all on one disc. But, the IP rights to something like that could easily push that format into the $250+ range. Good luck ever getting the typical electronics consumer to bust out more than $60 on a single disc, regardless of its content. Maybe someday, when we're all living in the Matrix, but not today.  Now, bearing all of the above in mind... lets count the scores. Consumers will win, because we wont be stuck only watching half of the movies we really would like to see because we chose one format v. another. Media Producers and Manufacturers will win, because they wont be losing a portion of a potential market due to format allegiance. CE Manufactures will win, because they'd likely be able to produce equpiment for either format, with varying price points and manufacturing costs based on the product's usage. Retailers will win beacuse they will not have to waste their time explaining Blu-ray v. HD-DVD and why Mom and Pop can't get a Blu-ray copy of The Best of The Andy Griffith Show to play on their HD-DVD player. And us rare few, the techies, those who motivate, create, and promote all technological change within society, will win, because we'll be getting HD media sooner, and superior hi-capacity data storage and usage in the long run. By not mixing the two formats, and keeping each one more use-specific, each format will then allow content creators to be more focused on deriving the maximum potential benefits from each one. Seperate but equal was not the right idea for the American school system, but is the right way to go in the new media technology arms race. |
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HD-DVD ... The Bluray Killer! also hacker friendly Unregistered guest |
Either way dvd+r is gonna be the new vcd. ppl will want the format that can be backedup the easist & fastest. Your try backing up a 50 gig movie to dvd+r (try 48 hrs on a p4) Meanwhile HD-DVD is have both movies on 1 disc (dvd & hd-dvd)so that when u pop the hd-dvd in a standard dvd player it will read the standard dvd portion of the disc. from that portion we can make backups rightfuly from our purchased hd-dvds.C'mon ppl get a grip ... the future is HD-DVD! Backwards compatable & all! |
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Stephanie1980 Unregistered guest |
Hi to all ...I have a public, I mean pubic azz hair. When I take a crap welllll it sticks to my azz & remains unwipeable forcing a sticky smelly sensation all day long (or until shower) Sometimes I wipe the wrong way & all the sauces are brought forward to my vaginal area sticking to the hair there also. |
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Jon T Unregistered guest |
Yep, it's just peachy that Sony has a 200gb version, and what do you want to bet one a blank one of these babies will cost nearly as much as a 200gb hard drive. Sony seems to have forgotten who these products serve. Trying to control the media with watermarks, and layers of supposedly unbreakable encryption will guarantee Blu-Ray is a failure. Can't wait to see the price of the Playstation 3 that will supposedly have a Blu-Ray drive. This is a company seems to think the public enjoys paying more for their proprietary products that are only compatible with other Sony products. The format that wins this war will be the one that is most user and computer friendly.... Microsoft has given their blessing to HD-DVD, and the fat lady has sung. |
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Unregistered guest |
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH JON T,EVERYONE HERE THAT SAYS BLUE RAY THE BEST BLUE RAY CAN NOT BE STOPPED!! WELL, YOU ARE WRONG! JUST WAIT TILL YOU SEE THE WONDERFUL PRICE OF A BLUE RAY DISC! IM NOT SURE BUT FROM WHAT IV READ, I HEARD THAT THE BLUE RAY DISC IS 1/8 THINNER THEN A DVD DISC.GOODLUCK TO DROPPING THAT BLUE RAY DISC THAT HOLDS 200GIGS on 8 layers, DONT KNOW WHAT YOU WILL CRY FOR MORE.THE 200GIGS OR THE $100 CD YOU JUST PAID FOR!!! Id rather have 4cd's with 50gigs on each one so just incase i do break one,its not all gone.I do understand that alot of big companies have signed up for blue ray disc's, but people wont pay that much for any blue ray writers recorders or whatever you want.They just want something plain,simple and most important CHEAP!50gig movie, please! half of the movie wont even be visible to the human eye.Someone goes to a store and there is a HD-DVD and a BRD player infront of him and the salesman tells him they do both the same job and they see the HD-DVD is more cheaper,what do you think he will get.I think at the end of the day the reasonable way to go is HD-DVD.cheaper,more reliable,computer friendly and not so heart sore if you drop one. |
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/ok Unregistered guest |
it depends on who will get the first rewritable unit simple, isn't? |
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d-rod Unregistered guest |
I agree with Kyle's post on March28. I believe Blu-ray will win the war because of the PS3. Now that XBOX 360 will not have a HD DVD player in people will be purchasing a HD player for video game play. This will keep people from having to buy $1000 hd players. The only thing that can screw up blu-ray is the cost factor. If the discs are substantially more than people will never get behind it. Let's see how greedy Sony really is. |
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Anonymous |
My name is Adam Ward and I love men |
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Anonymous |
HD DVD or BLUE RAY.... or VMD? BIG SURPRISE ... lesser known VMD is all set to blow all the big players out of the market!!! VERSATILE MULTILAYER DISC or VMD is the next big thing that is almost certain to replace DVD. They claim to offer a disc with capacity of 100 GB for the price of a standard DVD... Apparently they have developed this awesome VMD based on Red Laser technology that uses the same DVD type of disc BUT stores and reads several layers of data. I think all you guys interested in DVD and High Definition should check it out on the net: www.nmeinc.com |
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Anonymous |
I read an article about a month ago in a reliable video gaming magazine where they stated that current video games are limited only by the capabilities of the current hardware. 3D animators have the ability to bring the highest graphics performing systems under development to their knees, even crashing the entire system. Imagine how much code that takes and then look at the amazing graphics of the most modern games that run smoothly on these performance computers. soon enough gamers and the people writing the programs are going to want and need space, so the disc that will be able to have great potential in the future for storing huge data should become the norm. even if blue lasers arent introduced now, they will be introduced later because of their efficiency at storage capacity. |
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Arclight Unregistered guest |
http://www.optware.co.jp/english/what_040823.htm Sheesh, 1TB of data! its really too bad that SONY and Toshiba didn't drop their formats and work together on this one. Pride is such a crutch. |
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Wilshire001 Unregistered guest |
Microsoft backs HD-DVD, my guess is the juggernaught wins again. |
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Anonymous7 Unregistered guest |
Yay VHS! Oops, I mean HD-DVD. I want my HD-DVD and I want my instant gratification NOW! Somebody said sex decided VHS over Beta, well it's deja-vu all over again. You could get better sex on Beta or Blu-Ray, Butt (and it's a cute butt), HD-DVD sex is here now, ready for instant, worldly gratification. It's sad, sick, and true. The evil empire has decided. Microsoft doesn't make mistakes, ;) |
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Logic: Buy Some. Unregistered guest |
Are you all mad? It's amazing how many people are bad mouthing HD DVD because it has less space?! Open your eyes: 6 hours of 108p is more than enough playback. As it stands, the market for a 1080p res is very small. Good luck finding a reasonable HDTV that is that high of a res! By utilizing eaxe of production and baackwards technology, HD DVD will probably take off. Heres something to think about too though: Sony has its foot n the door when it comes to the movie industry, given that they own MGM. At any time sony could produce a mass of blu ray and kill the compotition now. But they don't, the sales of the next gen consoles are going to play a MAJOR role in this format war. I see microsoft coming out with a hd dvd drive after the launch of the xbox 360 (hd dvd has been confirmed for after the lauch now). When will it come? I have a feeling microsoft will do this at a good time, probably after the lauch of the ps3. a $100 hd dvd drive to get. By this time the price of HDTV should drop a little bit. Really the whole factor right NOW is not these next gen formats, but HDTV. The low percetage of people with them, and high price will force companies to lower prices for these new formats. Without hdtv anything but a dvd is pointless. whos to say that the drives that read hdtv cant read blu ray? they both have blue lasers and it would only make sense to make a drive that could read both formats. as far as i know the formats arent so dramatically different that this will be impossible. i think this gen and next gen have some variables that make these wars alittle harder to mainipulate. Its hard to compare this war with beta and vhs because back then things like consoles, computers, and high def wasnt a factor. These different things becomes weapons in the war and creating a product that can successfully bind all these things and at the same time dealing with producting cost, quality, etc. I am eager to see how this turns out. i got my money on hd dvd tho... for now im going to stick to my monocrome tv with a vhs and bunny ears. |
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userna,e Unregistered guest |
you have any clue what are you talking about. In the video domain, less compression = better quality, and more space = better quality of the movie, so the quality of a movie on a 100gb blu ray disk will be huge better . Wm9, divxhd all look like sh*t compared to mpeg2hd |
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Anonymous |
You all should wait for blue ray to come out before buying an hd-dvd player, because when blue ray comes out hd-dvd will be wiped out. Even the hd-dvd supporters know this because every single one of the suporting companys except 1 have now decied to release there movies in both formats, but as far as I know all of the huge list of blue ray supporters all will be releaseing there movies in just blue ray. (for more info check out www.blue-ray.com ) |
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Silver Member Username: XgrizzlyxPost Number: 129 Registered: Jul-04 |
who is still supporting HD-dvd? Warner Bros. Entertainment Joins Blu-ray Disc Association Paramount Home Entertainment to Support Blu-ray Disc Format HD-DVD is backed by Time Warner (Warner Bros., HBO and New Line), Universal (DreamWorks), and Paramount. that lives what dream works and intel, and microsoft i think blu-ray will be the winner |
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Anonymous |
First of all, stop using Sony's PS3 to promote Blu-ray discs. Sony is incapable of creating anything of quality format. Take the Playstation 2 for instance. They incorporated a DVD player into their system. However, I have read inimaginable amounts of information about the system having trouble reading DVDs, and on many accounts, even its own games. The DVD had been out for four years and they couldn't even create a simple DVD/ gaming system that could effectively do both. Now you're expecting them to instantly create a system that can read discs that aren't even out yet!!! Come on, if they can create a system that reads existing technology, they're going to have tons of trouble coming up with one that can read new technology. |
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New member Username: RoodymanPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
I'm not against the Blu-ray by any means, but I am against the PS3. I have also read countless errors with the PS2, and I feel that the PS3 will be no different. The XBox can effectively read DVDs, with little trouble. Not to mention, have you ever watched a DVD on a PS2. The quality sucks so much its unbearable. The PS3 is not an effective example to promote the new Blu-ray discs so stop using it!!! It sucks, plain and simple. |
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New member Username: John1335Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
Can you say DRM there's no way I'm getting Blu Ray Who cares about better picture? Will it really be that much better than the curent DVD9? As much as I like watching my favorite televison shows and movies the pictures are already gritty grainy and pale in color as it is because thats how The A-Team MacGyver and all my other shows were origanally filmed, so now it'll just look even grainier and grittier on Blu-Ray |
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Anonymous |
I disagree that cheaper will win out. For one, people who buy cheaper will wait until 1) prices come down, 2) the format "war" has been decided and 3) until they actually fork over the money for an HDTV in the first place. Most of us with HDTVs are the forerunners who choose quality and damn the price... there may be some people who run out and buy an HD-DVD player but these are generally the people who can afford to run out and buy a Blu-Ray player as soon as it is available as well. These are the same people who had both VHS and Beta... I am pushing for Blu-Ray but that doesn't mean I won't go out and buy an HD-DVD as well. Am I going to replace my whole collection of DVDs? No... just movies that deserve it and that were filmed in a format that will look good on HD. Really the only movies I can currently think of are the LOTRs, the last three (or first three whichever way you think about it) Star Wars and maybe the Harry Potters... most other movies (especially older movies) will be just as good (if not better) on regular DVDs because the digital information is just not there... (Just look at the mess they made of Star Wars: A New Hope when they tried to update it... it looks worse than it did originally...) |
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New member Username: PeeweePost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 |
Another large factor in this war is the next gen consoles,XBOX360 and PS3. PS3, made by sony, will be have a Blu Ray player packed nicely inside it. XBOX360 on the other hand, in there rush to get the console out early has had to ditch next gen players in favour of getting their console on the market first. It has been recently announced that a HD-DVD player will be available for the system, at another $200-$400. In addition the player will not be used for games, or so is the plan, and only for movies. Early indications from gamers with a XBOX360 are that they dont want to splsh out on a expensive add on that wont play HD-DVD games. This fact alone seems to be a deathblow to ever having a HD-DVD game. Sony, on the other hand, have done something very clever, which will benefit them, Blu Ray, and the consumer in the long run. By packing there next gen console with Blu Ray, they can market it as being 'future proof'. In addition, gamers buying the PS3 are also, perhaps unwittingly, buying themselves a Blu Ray player in addition to the console, for a massive knockdown price. Essentially, a fair few people will have Blu Ray in their living rooms in 2006. Somewhat ironically, the console war is a mirror of the Blu Ray HD-DVD war, with the PS3 and blu ray offering higher quality, at a higher price, and a little time, where as XBOX360 is inferior, but is nonetheless 'next gen' at a cheaper price, and a earlier release. By not supporting HD-DVD with the XBOX360, i feel that Microsoft have dealt themselves, and the HD-DVD format, a bit of a blow. Sony are focusing on getting Blu Ray out in poeples houses in order to gain the long term gain, whereas MS have rushed their console out, and left HD-DVD behind. On a personal note, i support Blu Ray. I feel that there is little reason to drag back, and for the public to go for a inferior format. I was not arround for the BetaMax Vhs confrontation, but i understand the lower quality VHS was taken over the BetaMax. I feel going for a cheap substitute, which is essentially what HD-DVD is, is a poor excuse to ditch a extra 20Gb of storage. I appreciate that smaller manufacturers may lose out becuase of the increased cost of Blu Ray developement, but i think a old consumerist phrase sums up my feelings. What the consumer wants, the consumer gets. The consumer wants more space, and thats what we shall get. As far as i can see, businesses supporting HD-DVD are breaking one of the golden rules of a company. Ypu provide for the consumer, and the consumer provides for you. It seems that thay are hoping to provide for themselves, and that the companys hope that the public will blindly follow them. |
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New member Username: PeeweePost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-06 |
Erm, to comment on people saying that Sony cant create a decent dvd reader. I have a PS2, and i play DVD movies on it regurlary. I have never once had a problem. I have had it for longer than i can remember now, and recently its started having problems reading discs. So, i took it over to a techy shop for someone to look at it. Turns out the lens had become covered in dust from my room. In addition, Sony are not primarily console producers. I believe they made much of their fame on CD-players, and later on TVs, DVD players at the like. For you to suggest that sony does not know what its doing is a bit of a strnge argument. If they dont, who does? I beleive that Sony actuually played a major role in the R+D of Blu Ray. Surely they must know a little bt about it? Thirdly, for you to deny that the console war will have no effect on this format war is just plain crazy. Games are becoming a ever larger entertainment medium, one which is not going unnoticed. Now, lets take a example of your average PS3 gamer, i.e. me. I Plan to buy a PS3, a and in the not too distant future to buy a HDTV to play it on. Once i have got my HDTV i will want to play HD movies on, and for arguments sake, lets say i dont mind wether it is HD-DVD or Blu Ray. However, assuming i have no bias at all on what format i would buy, which one do you think i would almost certainly go for. Do I: a)buy myself a HD-DVD player and then a HD-DVD movie b)buy myself a Blu Ray movie which one saves me more money? If you look closely, i think you may find the answer is b) Now, before you accuse me of being a Sony fanboy, let me first say that i am not, by a long way a Sony fanboy. However, i do think that MS have shot themselves in the foot, and at the same time, fired another round into HD-DVD. The XBOX360 gamers, with there HD TVs, and playing their HD games, may want to, at some point watch a HD movie on their HD TV. To do this, they have to buy a add-on to their XBOX 360, which wont even play HD-DVD games. How many 360 players will make this commitment do you think. I think it will be far less than PS3 uses making the 'commitment' to buy a Blu Ray disc with their fav movie on it. I think that proves (disregarding actual devoted HD-DVD and Blu Ray players) that more people will be buying Blu Ray than will be buying HD-DVD. These people buying these Blu Rays as a direct result of having a PC3 in their living room is not a insignificant number, i think, and it is plain to see, to any logical thinker, that the consoles cannot be discounted. |
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New member Username: GumraahColumbus , Oh Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 |
I remember while back reading about another standard it was GREEN RAY which will and can have many fold capacity than blue ray and I think there was some company working on it What ever happen to that and if that is being developed than why how is this future proof and why are we not making that standard, then other day on the news was holographic storage media which is much larger too. Now I am not here to confuse more but what is wrong with this whole picture are be set up for mid upgrade only to be told two years later that its not what we should have. |
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New member Username: FlctdcPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 |
02/21/06 This is the latest information. Your new Blue-Ray or HD-DVD player will NOT output 720p or 1080i from the component video jacks. The only highdef. output will be HDMI with HDCP encription. The disc will be encoded with a "flag" to limit the component output to 480p. See the web site listed. http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6300812.html The AACS (Advanced Access Content System) was approved for both systems. Partial of artical is below. See Wed Site for all. Some buyers of HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players might not get everything they bargained for. In a deal reached this week after tense negotiations, the eight-company consortium behind the Advanced Access Content System, created for use by both high-def formats to prevent unauthorized copying, has agreed to require hardware makers to bar some high-def signals from being sent from players to displays over analog connections, sources said. Instead, the affected analog signal must be “down-converted” from the full 1920x1080 lines of resolution the players are capable of outputting to 960x540 lines—a resolution closer to standard DVDs than to high-def. Standard DVDs are typically encoded at 720 horizontal by 480 vertical lines of resolution. The 960x540 standard stipulated in the AACS agreement represents 50% higher resolution than standard-def, but only one-quarter the resolution of full high-def. Whether a particular movie is down-converted will be up to the studio. The players will be required to recognize and respond to a digital flag, called an Image Constraint Token, inserted into the movie data. The general spec's will also alow that High Def. disc's can be played only at 480P unless the unit is attached to a phone line or internet connection. Permission to play the 720p or 1080i content would then be granted, and get this - they can charge you for a one time view at the higher resolution. It all out there on the Web if you take the time to search. My view is screw them. The increase of picture quality from a upconverted standard DVD to HD is about 20% depending on the up-converts in your player or TV. Plus with a format war in the making how would you like to be the one with the wrong choice. This is a good site for some interesting information. http://hddvd.org/hddvd/ |
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Anonymous |
There will be little to no visual/aural quality difference between Blu-Ray and HDDVD. The space provided by each format is more than ample for loads of video content in any of the supported codecs (which are the same for each format). The driving force behind hi-def is the experience, and that experience to the consumer will not differ between these formats. It's true that Blu-Ray will have more available space for content encoded at the same rate, which means that your hi-def copy of Lost - Seasons 1-6 may have 1 more disc in the set for instance, but that cost may not be worth it in the end. Personally, I think HDDVD is the practical choice in the matter, and I'm no hater of technology. Just as Beta does, Blu-Ray will have its place as a professional storage format, but for the consumer level market (even gadget geeks like me who love HDTV), HDDVD is a very logical choice. Go Toshiba! http://www.toshibahddvd.com |
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New member Username: DrivesmemadPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 |
The Corporate Tug-of-War got intensified with Microsoft supporting HD-DVD. If you are still making up your minds on the technologies, I suggest you go through the reviews that keep popping up everyday. Try iNods.com (review search engine) to keep up with the content. Here is a list of companies in the tug-of-war: HD-DVD Microsoft Intel HP Universal Warner Brothers Paramount NEC SANYO Blu-Ray Sony Phillips Samsung Panasonic All major Studios including Tri-Star Columbia |
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New member Username: Azz156Australia Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
To all the people thinking hd-dvd is out of the next-gen console wars your wrong, Microsoft plans to put hd dvd drives in all future xbox 360's, so sony doesn’t have a edge there ether. Hd-dvd will win simply because it backwards compatibility with dvds & is far cheaper then blu-ray (first hd-dvd player goes for $499 usd while blu-ray goes for $2000 usd, beta - blu-ray, vhs - hd-dvd). The only place I can see blue-ray taking off is in backing up office documents because of its larger capacity |
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New member Username: Hotstuff619San diego, California Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
if toshiba & its alliance members find a way of reducing the overall price of a stand alone hd dvd player by THIS HOLIDAY SEASON to about $300(or less), this media war could very well be in their favor...the ps3 delay in my personal opinion is a crucial blow to sony and its blu ray format technology...... |
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New member Username: Hotstuff619San diego, California Usa Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 |
even though my personal interest is geared towards blu ray, i have this weird feeling that hd dvd will win in the long run...history tends to repeat itself and this generation is no different than the vhs/betamax era... to the AVERAGE CONSUMER worldwide, superior products does not always constitute as the clear choice when it comes to electronics...for example, the original xbox was in many ways more advanced than the ps2...yet for some reason, sony ended up winning the console war by a very large margin...the point is simply this...while i sincerely hope that blu ray does succeed, hd dvd will end up becoming the future storage medium because of these simple facts...#1)cheaper #2)name brand recognition "HD DVD" #3)hollywood support-LOTR trilogy alone is very powerful in the entertainment idustry... |
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New member Username: Xk2600Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
Fact is most people won't buy until they can afford it and at that point both will be out. The consumer has no choice in this at all. The only people that will affect it are those producing movies the films. What hardware they buy will reflect what the end user will buy which will reflect what format player they purchase. End of story. The point is DVD works fine and HD-DVD provides little to no benefit for the average user other than they could buy a TIVO/DVR with a recorder built into it to backup thier TIVO/DVR Recordings to. You can always just buy a DVD Player with 1080i upscale conversion and get nearly the same quality as they would get by duplicating already produced movies onto HD-DVD. It all goes back to granulation (I believe someone had mentioned this earlier): If the video is grainy from the get go you just get a sharper grain in your video. As far as what will be available on HD-DVD or BluRay, The only thing I'd spend my money on would be sporting events, maybe CSI (and other HD Broadcast television programs), and maybe some discovery channel/imax videos. Where this market would be benefitial is in data backup or on the computer/business end. I think everyone is getting way ahead of the horse here. Until the general public needs HD-DVD/BluRay and it provides something significantly better than DVD quality with upscale conversion, they won't purchase it. I'm not sure who will win in this battle, but I do believe that HD-DVD/BluRay are fighting over something the consumer doesn't care about. |
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New member Username: MikeybabePost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 |
The only thing that concerns me about the better blu-ray discs is the very thin coating used to protect the media stored on the disc. as most of you know people don't look after there media and they always wipe the disc in there top before putting it into there media player. Scratches more like a knacked dics. |
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New member Username: Pandy2Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 |
I think the whole HD DVD vs blue-ray discussions is silly. It makes as much sense as discussing if 2 Gb or 4 Gb Compact Flash cards are better. Imagine somebody saying "I like the 2 Gb cards better because I rarely even use 900 Mb of the capacity anyway". I do not think anybody will need 100 Gb for movies in the near future. The storage capacity will be for data and archiving. I like doing video editing and family movies and I would just love to archive all our videocam tapes on digital disks - the bigger the better !! And people who are not interested in video editing will need the storage capacity for other purposes, digital pictures, music, etc. So the question is, what is the best technology for archiving: disks with a capacity of 9 Gb (DVD), 15/32 Gb (HD DVD) or 50/100 Gb (blue-ray) ?? The only real customer friendly solution is to have players which support both HD DVD and blu-ray and guess what kind of disks people will eventually end up using, regardless of the movie format ... |
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New member Username: BoneyardPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 |
Blu-ray backwards compatability question Will a regular DVD be able to play in a Blu-ray player? |
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Bronze Member Username: AscleanasitgetsKingston Canada Post Number: 28 Registered: Sep-05 |
Pandy - Just so you know Toshiba has disks that are dual sided and dual layer supporting over 60 gigs. and it took blu-ray 4 layers to get 100 Tony - yes they have 2 completely different lasers in them for that purpose Mike - I don't have a definite answer for you but I heard that you could scrub a blu-ray disc with steel wool and it would still work I'm going to a training seminar in toronto tommorow when i get back i will have an answer for you about that. Chris - I just got back from a Toshiba Training session the upconversion that the Toshiba HD DVD player does is much better then most standard upconverting DVD players I saw it with my own 2 eyes on 2 side by side 72" DLPs same setup and everything same cables just 2 different dvd players on factory settings now I realize that thats a big screen but you have to realize the people that they are marketing are 18-35 males with above average income many of them will have a 60"+ TV or projector and the other ones will buy it because they heard about it or there friend got it. I sell this stuff believe me ppl will buy it. too bad the toshiba wasn't good for audio it matches my HK nicely |
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New member Username: SheroPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
for me will win that one who will have better time waranty or how its says,becouse when i will burn mine works on this medium and it will destroy itself something in two years i will be very angry of this and thats what i want to ask...for how lonng i can archive datas on this upcoming optical discs? |
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New member Username: Tonysm_75Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
I created a site that analyzes the popularity of HD DVD vs. Blu-ray discs on Amazon.com. It shows several interesting graphs over time. Check it out here: www.thedvdwars.com |
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New member Username: HirorrPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
I been watching the debate between what format will win seemes like the war between dvd-audio and sacd neither format has claimed victor for the fact the no oneside has a grater market share then the other because most people bought universal players. and what gets me is that the claim the you can severly scratch bluray and it will still read. is the same comment made for the cd. but we all know that once a cd is scratched to a point they are trash. both bluray and hd-dvd have there potental. I thought the reason thatthe to dvd forum was made was to help the comsumer.i own a toshiba ax1 hd-dvd displays at 1280x720p and is not upconvered like my samsumg hd-950 dvd player, if you compare same title side buy side you will see a stunning differance. both formats should be viable to the market do you remember mini disc? well i bought that thinking hey a sony technology can go wrong. but i did. so in the end the comsumers will pick the winner and be you own judge of each product do let marketing hype pull you in. |
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New member Username: SuperluminalPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
I've been following the Bluray v hd-dvd a thing a while and changed horses. I thought the Bluray specs would win the day but now I'm thinking hd-dvd. Sony has long history of over-hyping and under-performing and appears at it again. Sony already sports a large stable of failed formats and seems hellbent on repeating history. The PS3 delay is big clue that the format has technical and/or hardware pricing problems. The presumed PS3/Bluray advantage is evaporating away as MS has annouced an hd-dvd add-on for Xbox360 and I suspect by the time PS3 lands the Xbox360 will have a built-in hd-dvd drive. Frankly the PS2's cheap drive made for a pretty crappy DVD player and if Bluray drives are as expensive as hinted at I don't think the PS3 will fair much better. The hd-dvd media is inferior but it can be produced by existing plants which means lower costs and a vastly larger capacity to produce discs and, I think, the availability of movies will ultimately be the decider. Hd-dvd got to market first, has lower licensing fees and has the ability to fill it's catalogue with titles faster. No doubt Sony will try to sabotage hd-dvd by using it's studios to withhold hd-dvd support but that strategy can only work so long and hd-dvd has enough studios onside with strong back-catalogues and can keep the titles flowing. The extra storage of Bluray is really the only clear advantage and I don't think its big enough to be a hd-dvd killer. It's known that neither format has a picture or sound quality avantage and do people really care that much about the extras being on the same disc or in HD? Regardless of storage capacity, the format that wins in the loungeroom will become the accepted storage format for computing. Computer DVD storage options arrived on the back of its success as a consumer media format and I don't think the market has changed enough for it to be any different this time. |
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New member Username: ChinedumIkeja, Lagos Nigeria Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
From what I hear it seems to me that the HD-DVD's major competitibe advantage is just its price. However I dont think that comparing the HD-DVD to the VHS is fair. The VHS had more than just a good price to offer, it also had more storage space! So i doubt that the HD-DVD's cheaper price would be enough to make it the winner. Besides who says that SONY cannot at some point reduce the price of the BLURAY. |
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New member Username: EdrxparkPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
Just because a technology is superior does not mean it is going to win. Honestly, Sony has eaten crow countless times with their "superior" formats. Betamax is still being used by photojournalists because of it's superior video quality, but everyone knows who won that format war. Guys, remember Minidisc?...it was going to be the next big thing to inferior audio CDs. Also, Sony is one of the worst companies to "play along" with industry standards, as seen with their proprietary "Memory Sticks." While the entire industry was making SD cards the standard, Sony decided to f everyone over with their own proprietary formats. I resent this fact about Sony, who acts like an immature school boy who takes their toys home when no one wants to play by their rules. Bluray may no doubt be the superior technology, but honestly, how many people who have posted here are ready to shell out $1000 for their superior BluRay player while this format war ensues (better to spend $500 on an HDDVD player and be wrong than $1000 no?) and in the mean time enjoy a wider range of titles and HD quality. Also, suprise suprise you gaming geeks, the majority of the public aren't die hard video game addicts that will spend $600 for a PS3 and not all gamers are going to buy the PS3, some will buy the Wii or 360 or stick to their "superior" PCs to play games. Further more, not all gamers like to use their game consoles for DVDs (adds wear and tear to an expensive system). While we're on the topic of gaming, I'd like to remind you of another superior console that bombed in the early 90's called NEOGEO. Superior in every way, but everyone questioned it's $900 price tag. With that being said, screw superiority!, in the end it's not about what is superior, but about what everyone actually ends up buying. |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
edward park ^^^^ actually you are quite wrong.. there ARE plenty of GAMEING GEEKS! check your data man.. the gaming industry for money long surpased the movie industry.. never underestimate the entire computer industry and the ps3 .. they are huge parts in this war.. as far im concerned.. when im storing data.. i want as much of it all in one place as i can.. if that means i have 50 less disks in my drawer im a happy computer camper.. if i don thave to search through an extra 50 disks.. im happy too.. if video games get to put more detail and more maps and more data in their games.. im a happy geek video gamer too! i am all about superiority .. not cheapest and quickest.. if thats what i wanted i would have married a prostitute.. in my opinion.. hd is marketing to the mentally conditioned "instant-quick-fix" of the population who are fine with medeocrity and dont mind changing all their favorite movies into a nother format for a marginal increase in ability.. blu - ray is marketing to the elite.. the people who spend an extra 2- 300 bux on a video card to get an extra resolution notch under their belt.. blu ray all the way.. |
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New member Username: GeozPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
^^ Well then, are you suggestion we all bought into Prostitution in the VHS Betamax era? No, we bought into the inferior and the most effective way to produce what we need. You claim that the gaming market surpasses the Film, but what you forget clearly is that we want to play games, and we don’t care on what format we play them on, as long as they do the job, and we are not burnt doing so by the price, I want to backup my media and data on the next generation media, and I am a heavy PC user, and I enjoy my consoles, I would rather have the CHOICE to use Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, not to have a format that possibly will not survive forced onto me, through the PS3, I want to have the guarantee that the format I am using will not explode in price as it becomes cumbersome and difficult to manufacture, and less frequent in the FILM INDUSTRY, because whether you like it or not, sir, games can only catapult a system so far, you need to have other incentives then games in order to part with $600/£425, because the reason we are being sold this line from Sony is that THIS is the future in everything, from game to film. Not one of the other, simple economics states that if the Blu-Ray is met with lukewarm participation, then it will be the PS3 users that will get burnt, not the Xbox 360/Wii owners, as their system gives users (at least the 360) upgrade, so if HD-DVD does flounder, I know that the basic principles that I bought the system on won’t be effected, and my games and media will not fluctuate in performance, or in price. |
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New member Username: R_p_doyleNew York, NY United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
In addition to the ease of manufacture of HD-DVDs hasn't it occured to anyone that the name “BluRay” itself was a bad decision? It alludes to the frequency of the laser used to read the disc, but to the average, non-techie consumer it doesn’t tell you anything about what the product is. Also, people are already very familiar with the acronyms “HD” and “DVD”. Unfortunately, I think it’s going to be no contest for HD-DVD, even if it’s inferior technology. |
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New member Username: RobspitPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
There's one big difference between the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD format war and the VHS/Beta one. There was enough easily recognizable differences (convenience, cost) between VHS and Beta and earlier video recording technologies (ie. Laser Disc) that the early adopters included many non-technical consumers. Since the new disc formats are more of a storage capacity upgrade to a familar existing format, I believe the demographics of the early adopters will include a higher percentage of more technically-savvy consumers, while less technical consumers will be slower to move from the lower-capacity format ("I already have a DVD player; why do I need another"). In that case, the Blu-Ray name might be an advantage ("I have a DVD player, and I don't see why I'd need an "HD" DVD, but I hear these new Blu-Ray things are even better than DVD." - and if I was doing the ads for Blu-Ray I would simply try to get across that simple message: "Better than DVD"). So I'd have to vote for the Blu-Ray format winning out over the HD-DVD format in the long run. |
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New member Username: FlashguyPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 |
This site has great articles, videos and reviews about hd dvd and blu ray...also has up to date release titles! http://www.hd-dvd-report.com |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 |
edward.. yes i am implying that the general public was seduced by the inferior product or prostitution. i think there are two debates here.. 1. who will win 2. and which is better 1. i do think hd dvd has a very good shot at winning as when you leave things to public you get rubbish.. look at the people in politics in any country.. 2. blu ray is better.. people can have a better experience with it.. you say people just wnat to play games.. well imagine this.. imagine if sony actually marketing their products as being superior.. get (x) game.. then on the blu ray disc.. it says.. get (300 megs of extra maps and multiplayer add ons ) on the blu ray version.. maybe it costs a little more.. but you are getting a better product.. i wonder who would win then.. anyways.. cheap = rubbish.. hd dvd is cheap.. nuff said. |
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New member Username: GeozPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 |
You clearly do not understand the technicalities of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD situation. You claim that Blu-Ray is better, because a) because “people can get a better experience” – how exactly? Good explanation there. As far as I am aware they both use the same blue light frequency. But one costs half as much as the other, in terms of the player, and the disc, and both are reported to generate EQUAL QUALITY on movies. The only possible reason you are backing Blu-Ray is your support for Sony Playstation, and I’m telling you son, 300 megs is not enough to pay double for a Playstation 3, and the Anime games that come with it. I don’t want a potentially obsolete format forced onto me, I just want something that I can rely on, and can’t you see that in the end that we, the consumers, will lose? Cheap = Rubbish? Are you stupid? Unless your entire video collection is on Betamax, you are in no position to talk, because VHS was and is cheap. Secondly, Japanese cars are cheap, compared to the rest, yet they are causing GM with all their problems to go bust. Remember the PSP? How it was going to “trounce” the “inferior” DS? Yeah right! The DS is outstripping the PSP by millions on every single continent, but it’s cheap, how do you like that? You see, things are not black and white, for some reason you don’t seem to understand that, “just imagine this:” That despite an “extra 300meg” of trailers and extras and rubbish are put on a Blu-Ray disc, (which would cause the game to be delayed and other consoles would be getting it first) that Blu-Ray flops because it is just too damned expensive to manufacture, buggy (hey the were going to ship in 15 days, but manufacturing problems stopped them) and lack of sales because the wonderful “PS3” doesn’t seem to cost effective to part with $600+ then what? I’ll tell you, Blu-Ray will go bust, it’ll go bust and you’ll be left with an increasing pricetag on everything Blu-ray as demand falls. At least Micro$haft were smart enough not to make the X360 compulsory with a HD-DVD, because if that fails, then the same thing would happen. This is far from “’nuff said” kid, I think a couple of years older, or some more research on your behalf would easily have made you to realise that this is not a simple cut and dry format battle, if everything was “cheap = rubbish” people would be buying gold backed DVDs and CDs, Betamax would be the video standard, and everyone would be getting a PS3. But we don’t. Aluminium Discs, a Honda, and a home built PC will do fine thank you. |
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New member Username: Pandy2Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 |
Anybody know if Pioneer is the only company bringing out a Blu-Ray recorder for PC's shortly ? I have a lot of external hard drives sized between 160 Gb and 250 Gb and it would be nice to backup the data on Blu-Ray disks. The more the capacity the better and I am not really that interested in the movie use of Blu-Ray. Pure and raw data only. |
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New member Username: Pandy2Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-06 |
I will respond to my own question. Guess I should have done some research first: You can find an excellent list of ATAPI Blu-ray drives at http://www.blurayseller.com/bddrives.html Make sure you get one that supports double-layer. Benq seems to have the lowest price at the moment ($799) and it burns DVD and CD as well. |
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New member Username: Jon_tPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 |
We had a big pool party the other day, and one of my friends had taken a bunch of pictures with his Sony Mavica. One of the girls at the party requested a copy of the photos.... SD card? Mini-SD? Micro-SD? CD? DVD? Floppy?.... No, unfortunately there was no way to download the Sony proprietary memory stick..LOL I've said it before, and I'll say it again, NOBODY in their right mind wants Sony and their proprietary formats controlling the scene. Sony equals inflated prices and LESS compatibility/funtionality. Blu-Ray may have a little more capacity, but there are many other factors.... Microsoft support being the most important, and price a close second. I would bet we will quickly see HD-DVD adopted by the PC user, in which case Blu-Ray is toast.... Or should I say a Betamax for the 21st century! |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 4 Registered: Jun-06 |
dear G, "You claim that Blu-Ray is better, because a) because “people can get a better experience” – how exactly? Good explanation there. As far as I am aware they both use the same blue light frequency. But one costs half as much as the other, in terms of the player, and the disc, and both are reported to generate EQUAL QUALITY on movies." 1. they are not half the price.. 2. the extra cost that has come into play is from the retooling of the manufaturing.. this is GOOD! why?? cause they can then use those same new manufacuring plants to make a better version eventually of the blu ray disc.. hd -dvd is a baby step..and a complete waste of time if you are thinking of rebuying all of your fav movies in it again.. blu ray has the foundation of a actual step it may not seem to be that much better than the hd-dvd but think bout it in 5 years from now when they are tweaking out the best performance in technology wise on teh blu ray versus the mild increase of hd-dvd.. blu ray has way more potential.. how is it a better experience? 1)for data archiving.. less dvds.. 2) video games have more space to put more maps and level detail.. turst me.. if you give a good gaming company a extra few gigs.. they will love you for it.. and they will use it! 3) more room for extras = better experience.. "The only possible reason you are backing Blu-Ray is your support for Sony Playstation, and I’m telling you son, 300 megs is not enough to pay double for a Playstation 3," i dont play console games.. i couldnt care about playstation.. even if it is far superior to teh xbox.. and it isnt 300 megs differnce man.. read above man.. get a clue.. we are talking 20 - 50 GIGS DIFFERENCE MAN!!!!! that is a huge DEAL! do the math.. even withonly 10 dvds you have lost over 200 gigs.. 1?!?!??! thats a lot of freakin data.. "want a potentially obsolete format forced onto me, I just want something that I can rely on, and can’t you see that in the end that we, the consumers, will lose?" too late.. its probably coming.. and its hd-dvd.. its like vhs going to beta max.. before they go to dvd.. its a useless step that can be skipped.. "Cheap = Rubbish? Are you stupid? Unless your entire video collection is on Betamax, you are in no position to talk, because VHS was and is cheap." wrong moron, vhs was the only thing to pick from back in the day.. we had no choice.. and i hated it.. my entire video collection is dvd.. i never bought anything vhs as i knew teh format was obsolete.. "Secondly, Japanese cars are cheap, compared to the rest, yet they are causing GM with all their problems to go bust." no.. my friend you dont understand world economics.. gm is going bust cause they have been consistantly making wrong decisions.. ie taking the buy out from teh oil companies and the goverment and killing their electric cars.. by lettting the japanese and chinese steal their technology with 1000's of spies.. and then there is teh global market.. cheaper workers, etc.. it has nothing to do with cheap cars!!! acura and honda are way more expensive!! why? cause public perception. .not reality.. where have you been hiding man?!?! some dark cave i presume.. "Remember the PSP? How it was going to “trounce” the “inferior” DS? Yeah right! The DS is outstripping the PSP by millions on every single continent, but it’s cheap, how do you like that? You see, things are not black and white, for some reason you don’t seem to understand that," you are bringing up arguments that are simply not valid.. the reason one console will succeed over anohter one is not as simple of price.. it can be available games.. marketing .. a whole host of things.. that may or may not have anythign to do with price.. "That despite an “extra 300meg” of trailers and extras and rubbish are put on a Blu-Ray disc, (which would cause the game to be delayed and other consoles would be getting it first) that Blu-Ray flops because it is just too damned expensive to manufacture, buggy (hey the were going to ship in 15 days, but manufacturing problems stopped them) and lack of sales because the wonderful “PS3” doesn’t seem to cost effective to part with $600+ then what? I’ll tell you, Blu-Ray will go bust, it’ll go bust and you’ll be left with an increasing pricetag on everything Blu-ray as demand falls. At least Micro$haft were smart enough not to make the X360 compulsory with a HD-DVD, because if that fails, then the same thing would happen. " again.. its not 300 megs man.. its like 20 GIGS.. i dont even feel like responding to this point as it has not basis.. you have no idea what gameing companies can do with 20 gigs more!!! "This is far from “’nuff said” kid, I think a couple of years older, or some more research on your behalf would easily have made you to realise that this is not a simple cut and dry format battle, if everything was “cheap = rubbish” people would be buying gold backed DVDs and CDs, Betamax would be the video standard, and everyone would be getting a PS3. But we don’t. Aluminium Discs, a Honda, and a home built PC will do fine thank you." it is not as simple as a format war.. its about really improving a product or just doing good enough.. and as far as im concerned.. hd-dvd is "good enough" but far from great.. and yes cheap stuff does sell... but yoru point is lost in the fact that you havent picked a point that you are debating.. i have alreayd stated in my previous post .. 1. the cheaper one will probably win cause people are stupid .. and i cited the goverment "most" people have voted for as an example of the majority of people consistantly making teh wrong decision.. this is nothing new.. so it dosent surprise me if hd-dvd wins.. and 2. that blu ray is a better product.. so yoru point tha tpeople still buy cheap garbage is a null point.. as it doesnt address either of my points.. please come back with a more structured response.. and address my points clearly with counter pointes.. |
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New member Username: EdrxparkPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 |
Why do you guys insist that extra storage space is going to be this life changing experience for you? I have yet to see most PC games available in DVD format, and doesn't that hold almost 10x that of a regular CD-ROM? The PC gaming industry rarely uses DVD format and manufactures them in very limited release only. So you think that gaming manufacturers are going to suddenly jump on board with BluRay b/c of it's large storage capacity when they haven't even made a full jump to DVD? C'mon, there's fantasy and reality. Console gaming you say? The gaming industry will adapt to whatever technology is available to them for each console. You can bet that even if BluRay wins out that Microsoft will not use it in their next generation gaming system. Video games will not be stripped of content, but most likely animation sequences will be highly compressed...we're talking relative here since most HDTVs are maxed out to 1080i right now, so it would be difficult to conceptualize what kind of spectacular video sequences are to be seen as well as the amount of memory it will require to store it. What ever technology is chosen, future technology will adjust to whoever is crowned winner. There are compression technologies that have not even been developed that will help with storing information on 30 gigs. The only advantage BluRay has is a proported larger bandwidth which has yet to be substantiated w/ Sony being notorious for overhyping specs. |
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New member Username: Nicole32Alameda, California United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 |
Here is the end of the debate! Buy an Xbox 360 and a PS-3 and watch movies in both standards. tada !!!!!!!! |
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New member Username: JewstenPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 |
i really wanted blu-ray to come ahead in this little struggle over "power" because of the number of manufacturers backing it (even though i'm not a fan of sony) and the huge size distance (15/30 compared to 25/50),but so far i've been reading reviews of video quality leaning over to hd-dvd side. isn't what really matters here? cheap≠rubbish...that's stupid. |
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New member Username: ChiefempirePost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 |
At the moment I have two feet squarely in the HDDVD camp. I think blu-ray is unproven and still has a long way to go to deliver a far superior experience to hddvd. Technical issues and cost may well put it too far behind. I also need to clear up some comments about games and hddvd/blue-ray. I have worked in the games industry for 10 years and this industry will have NO bearing on who wins. Games publishers will develop games for PS2 AND 360 - this makes the most financal sense. As for an extra 20 gigs of space - most games don't use a dvd-5 let alone 50 gigs!!! What do you expect developers to put on these discs? hours of hd trailers?? Games are VERY expensive to make and you expect publishers to increase their costs by up to a half just putting in more levels - on one platform - to fill a disc? It is never going to happen. Games don't need that much storage. PC's put everything onto the hard drive, consoles load in as much as the internal workings can allow. Most data is also compressed on the disk - this allows for faster load times and decompressing the data in memory is faster than loading. Games do not matter in this war, forget about them. PSP is losing because it is too expensive and doesn't really do anything. The games aren't that good, so you are left with an expensive mp3 player than doesn't fit in your pocket. Great. The UMDs are rubbish and tiny - even Sony pictures is slowing down it's movie output on them as they are not selling. If ever there was a format-war loser it's PSP - Nintendo DS wins by a knockout in round 2. Ding Ding |
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New member Username: Tonysm_75Post Number: 2 Registered: May-06 |
On Amazon.com at least, HDDVD seems to be holding on to its lead over Blu-rays: http://www.thedvdwars.com I wonder what people have been seeing (for DVDs, not games) in brick-and-mortar stores. Can someone go into a Blockbuster and rent a movie in one of these formats? I did notice that Netflix now has these two formats available, but the selection, as one might expect, is pretty poor. |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 |
Heres what I think about this whole war I'm going to HD-DVD one reason is you all say that blu ray is bigger ya maybe but only by 5 gigs since hd is going with a 3 layer disc which holds 45 gigs of info, 2. is all HD-DVDs are in 1080p format for their 1080P player that will be coming out and most of the blu ray movies are only in 1080i, 3. is they are a lot more inexpensive, 4. the layers are protected as to where blu ray 1 small scratch can ruin the disc and hd-dvd also has a lot more support studio wise as to where blu ray only has lions gate and sony pictures, sony is being to greedy on their front because they are charging movie studios to use the blu ray platform since sony holds the patent for blu ray discs. |
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New member Username: ArtrerminatorPost Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 |
Blue Ray is the best! Given the facts it is better to upgrade to Blue Ray because it has more storage capacity, and therefore it can provide higher picture quality |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 2 Registered: Aug-06 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD explains hd dvd's new capacity breaking 90 GIGS |
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New member Username: Jon_tPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-06 |
As predicted, Sony is making fools of the people that buy their overpriced junk products again. It cracks me up how many times they can get consumers to fall for their tricks. "The latest fiasco is the recent revelation that Sony's Blu-ray player for the PC will not have the ability to play HD movies on the PC. This is to protect the interests of the movie makers somehow." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209003,00.html |
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New member Username: Jon_tPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-06 |
For those who claim there is no difference in picture or sound quality between the formats, it looks like Blu Ray is off to the format races with two left feet...LOL According to a number of reviews so far the HD DVD format has delivered far superior picture and sound on virtually every title released. http://www.dvdtown.com/article/warnerbros.hddiscsblu-rayvs.hd/3773/ |
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New member Username: Freddy123Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-06 |
Amazon.com the top 10 HD-DVD titles average out to be ranked 584th in movie sales. BD's top 10 average out to 5,662. HD-DVD has 5 titles in the top 150, BD's best day to my knowledge was the top 3,600 for 1 title. They have 5 titles in the top 5,300 currently. Five best titles for HD-DVD: top 150, BD: top 5,300. Software sales are completely blowing away BD. Software attachment numbers are crazy high for HD-DVD. September and October numbers are going to be much WORSE for BD. It is 11 to 1 right now, but September numbers could be as high as 15 to 1, and Octobers looks to be devestatingly absurd likely 20 to 1. As for the PS3 it selling (Pre-release) right now on play for a massive £549.99 OUCH!! You can buy the xbox 360 and the new Nintendo (which will be out before PS3) for that. I think Blueray is going to struggle big time and the PS3 is not going to be as popular as previous playstations either. Just far too expensive. Not many people I know have that kind of disposable income right now. Mortgage and rising council tax bills are crippling lots of people. Technology has been so cheap in recent years. You can buy a brand new dvd player for £30. Sony have it wrong this time |
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New member Username: Freddy123Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-06 |
Sony is banking that PS3 sales will push software sales of BD up in December over HD-DVD and show that Studios like Disney, Fox, and Lionsgate picked the right brand. Lionsgate however is rumored to be about to make an announcement that they will have HD-DVD titles available. It's just too hard for them to pass up the money they could be making in HD-DVD. If Sony doesn't win December (and I'm now thinking they have little to no chance) then Disney is very likely to spurn Sony and go with both formats. LG is going to announce a Dual-Format (universal) player at CES. Their agreement with Sony won't allow them to release a HD-DVD only player. Microsoft are releasing the HD-DVD drive for the xbox 360 from £130 http://avzombie.com/blog/2006/09/27/xbox-360-hd-dvd-drive-in-low-price-shock/ |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-06 |
admitedly im a m very disappointed about the announcement of blu ray and their computer blu -ray device.. ohwell.. i really only wanted it for its ability to back up all my files.. i never watch em on their anyways.. got a 150 inch for that.. so blu ray for storage.. and hd for watching movies.. i wonder if sony will be able to keep selling those units before someone hacks it.. or the market forces them to be less stupid.. |
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Bronze Member Username: DobyblueSt. Catharines, Ontario Canada Post Number: 77 Registered: Oct-05 |
TDK have successfully tested and manufactured a 200GB Blu Ray disc. |
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Bronze Member Username: DobyblueSt. Catharines, Ontario Canada Post Number: 78 Registered: Oct-05 |
As for Microsoft's HD-DVD drive, it has no HDMI. It's rubbish at best for tvs that only accept 1080p through their HDMI slots, which Microsoft suggests is not proven technology and not widespread, but go into your local A/V store and find a 1080p tv that doesn't have one. Sheesh. |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 3 Registered: Aug-06 |
No they haven't they have tested a 1 gig disc and no it hasn't been manufatured yet. |
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Moderator Username: AdminPost Number: 1633 Registered: Dec-03 |
Related article on eCoustics: Are HD-DVD and Blu-ray Both Doomed? |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 4 Registered: Aug-06 |
the problem is, is that is just one oppinion, Hd-DVD and blu ray have already caught on and on a 1080i tv you can easily tell a difference in sound and picture quality over dvd9 as dvd9 is only 480p at the max and HD DVD is 1080p that is a huge difference in picture quality at 600 lines of resolution more. |
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Bronze Member Username: DobyblueSt. Catharines, Ontario Canada Post Number: 79 Registered: Oct-05 |
1 gig? Maybe you mean 100GB, but TDK have successfully produced the 200GB prototype. It's still a way off from being in production, but it shows that the 100GB is very close to release to the general public. http://www.tdk.com/procommon/press/article.asp?site=pro&recid=127 |
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New member Username: Real3rdeyePost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
HD-DVD will win hands down. It's copy right protection is inferior to that of Blu ray which will be the down fall to Blu ray since all the thieves in the world will want an easier way to rip/burn and copy media illegally. |
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New member Username: Anox3Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
Consumer and tech market equals 2 totally different things. Whats it being discussed on here I fell will have very little to do with the winner of Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD. Your normal consumer is going to look at 2 things. Availability and price. Your ordinary consumer is just not that tech savy. HD-DVD players are widely available. I saw one at Sears in Daytona Beach in October on sale for $399. Let see Blu-Ray do that before the holidays. HD-DVD is even available for $199 if you have a Xbox 360. My guess in the end Sony will win for computer storage and HD-DVD for movies. If I am not mistaken it is the blu ray diode problem for the shortage of ps3's at launch is it not? How in real possibility can Sony and their partners deliver Blu-Ray dvd players for a reasonable cost even before Christmas 2007? Thats a long time to give HD-DVD a head start. |
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New member Username: QualitydaydreamPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
In Japan there are already 2160P TV's in the works. Some say 1280P is the max the human eye can handle. 1080P is old news there, im talking over 2 years old. Japan also like the USA lacks 1080P contnet on Cable. they call the trends before they happen, i just wish we could have 100mbps dwn and 20mbps up for 79.00 a month like they do. |
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New member Username: CsaywordPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
One thing for sure. The word HD DVD is a more marketable term than Blue Ray. The average consumer don't know squat about size and format. The only thing the consumer care for is quality. And if you already have an HDTV, it will make more sense to go after an HD DVD (especially if your not a tech guru). How about I use the analogy of a food super market. If you came to a road with two stores, one Food Town, and the other Kings Supermarkets; yet didn't know a thing about either one, which one would you shop at?? Food Town makes more sense. Because it's in regards to what you are seeking; FOOD!! For this reason alone, I believe the word HD DVD is a more marketable word. It's only because of the Sony Playstation 3 that Blue-ray was able to make a strong entry into the market. But in the long run, I see more people cutting thru the technical bull, and reaching for HD DVD. I tell you this. I'm familiar with the two formats, and its still a little confusing. Blockbuster Video has two sections. One for Blue-ray, and one section for HD DVD. |
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New member Username: ForzeNorthwest England Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
Bottom line is... Anything sony make/push/sell, well just walk away from, The most hated company along with m/soft that only care about profit margins & have the worst records in flaws/faults/bugs etc as well as poor customer aftersales care in fact any thought of the customer by sony would completely shock me! Blu-Ray is about copy protection & NOTHING more 50gig vs 30gig I MEAN WHO CARES REALLY!? I mean were currently on 4.7gig dvds so to jump to 30gig IS THAT NOT ENOUGH!? Do you really need a single disk with more than 30gig...Honestly WTF!? What single file have you got that you need 50gig on a single disk? If your answer is to back up...then wtf!? USB2 external harddrives upto terabyte sizes are 100 times faster than dragging/copying onto & from disks, whether there HD DVD or Blu-Ray!!! |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-06 |
Steve, i dont konw where you get that "anything sony we walk away from.." people have been mugged.. beaten for ps3.. every ps system has been a fantastic success.. ?!?!? blu ray is far superior to hd dvd.. they have already successfully tested a 100 gig blu ray.. your thinking too small man.. 4.3 gigs has barely.. and i mean BARELy held us to now.. look out 5 years from now.. 100 gigs will probably not be enough then either.. i find 4.3 gigs.. far too small.. i have hundreds of the disks to back up all my data.. i will lovingly appreciate the ability to back up myhard drive once a month to a blu ray.. and not worry about it.. ill re back up all my dvds in to like 15 disks .. aaah i can hardly wait.. (supposed to be like a month) i will love seeing studios and video games not limited at all by any constraints of data.. full wide screen high res extra stuff, trailers, .. extra levels, more goodies,, i will love seeing the entire star trek / seinfield, terminator series on one dvd instead of 10..etc.. in fact you say sony is all about protecting copy right.. really then.. who instituted the ridiculous 4.3 gig while all the commercial dvds have dual layer 8 gig..??? that was everyone ! all teh companies want to protect them from every pirating idiot that doestn know hes shooting himself in the foot for not paying people money.. on that note.. for all you pirating idiots.. if you like the movie.. go out and support them! they need money to make another movie.. so if you want to see another one from them.. then atleast rent it.. or better buy it.. further.. to all you movie companies record exec etc.. want a great way to hinder pirating?!?!? jump on board with blu ray.. think about it.. whats teh main medium of pirating.. the internet.. well the internet is limited by what.. speed.. exactly.. so if you release a movie useing like 50 gigs.. of all high quality stuff, people who really likethe movie will be forced to buy it as it will be just too ridiculous to transfer 50 gigs anywhere.. yes there wil always bee people who compress stuff.. but atleast they are for sure getting a inferior experience.. and you have a added incentive for people to buck up and pay the ridiculously cheap price of like 7 - 12 dollars for a movie.. think bout it. ican dowload for a week.. or drop 8 bux and have it the way i was supposed to get it.. ?? thats my 18 cents.. (inflation adjusted) |
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New member Username: NoshiPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
The problems about blu-ray. It's a Sony based format that costs more money to make (due to royalties). It's also supported by fewer movie makers. For those that thought PS3 games are on blu-ray you are mistaken. Sony announced a while back that they DO NOT support any form of games on blu-ray. The drive is strickly for playback of blu-ray, hd-dvd, and dvd mpeg2 video disks. Not for the console. Sony really shot themselves in the foot with this format. It costs more and will have less support. It will end up the same way that cartridge based gaming went. Dead. Consumers like cheap. Less costs is always an appeal to them. |
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New member Username: SlashmanPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
I just thought I'd add that as far as I can see in the console war... Nintendo is winning. There sales are up, every one wants a wii. Wii is the Hot item this year. My grandparents even went and got one and they have never played a game in there life. They love it. So if the PS3 Bombs in the end because the wii is far more fun too play. And it is I'v played the two of them. Even RFOM on PS3. all I have to say is the wii will stay fun longer I sold my PS3 Because it wasnt fun after about 2 Days. Wii was far more fun and EVERY one where I lived wanted a PS3 UNTILL they played wii. So you can hardly use PS3 as a selling point that will turn sales. In the past two Systems when they were on top yes. But there losing this time and will not have the same following. |
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New member Username: TimjPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
Blu-ray has won High Def. Optical war! It is the only format that is supported in a Customer retail burner by 90 percent of the optical burner manufactures. Additionally, the blu-ray technology is no longer royalty controlled. |
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New member Username: Audio_highMountain View, CA USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-05 |
HD-DVD has won the High Def. Optical war! It is the only format that is in my store.  |
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New member Username: TimjPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 |
Can any one tell me where to buy a HD-DVD burner retail as well as the make and model? |
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New member Username: Gsxr04gtPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
personally i think all the ppl on here talking about capacity are idiots...really who cares? if ur really thinking about backing up all ur dvds in ur collection to like 2 or 3 blurays ur a loser...get a life...the general public that will b purchasing these players arnt going to care unless they r the small sum of computer geeks out there...they r going to care about picture and sound quality on their newly purchased HDTV not how many movies they can store on one disk...honestly ppl r not at all technicallogically literate...they rnt going to know wat u r talking about wen u say 30GB and stuff like that...they r going to want to know wat the final picture is going to look like...wat they r physically going to c on their pretty television...its sad really...ive been trying to search to figure out which format was going to have a better picture (if there even is a better one in that perspective) or sound quality u know stuff like that that normal ppl would care about wen looking to extend their home theatre system but all i find is stupid comparisons on capacity of all things...it seems to me that capacity is the only thing blu-ray has over hd dvd...if picture quality and sound quality is the same and HD DVD is cheaper its kidna obvious which way i would want to go and thats how pretty much everyone is going to think so im going to have to say HD DVD is goign to win this war by far... |
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New member Username: KaixerPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
Here is a poll on Blu Ray vs HD DVD purchase decision, you can cast your own vote at the link below. http://inchorus.com/index.php?page=contribute&project_id=9 |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 7 Registered: Jun-06 |
joseph, capacity = potential = possibility = extras = blu ray just barely good enough = soon to be not enough = compression = less performance results = shortsightness = hd dvd yes from a spec analysis they both seem to be the pixels per inch, but only one has the potential of possibly upping that.. with a future potential of 100 gigs and more, its concievable that sony friendly products could even support a higher pixel resolution with no compression, and no forced change in disc format. hd dvd?? nooot likely.. its not just capacity its also bandwidth.. that little layer that all the manufacturers are whining about is what allows way more data, plus more bandwidth to be read and written, which means a possiblity for a better more bandwidth intensive signal in future which i will translate for you "non geeks" better picture, oooh.. better sound.. awwww.. dis is goood.. and it also means that when your burning a disc it will be burned 10 times faster.. less time to do things means more time to be a not geek and look at pretty pictures on the tv.. |
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New member Username: HddvdownsgayrayWherever HD-DVD owns G..., HD US- the only... Post Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
man charles i sure am glad you dont own sony, or else they would be dead already. there are several reasons why HD-DVD will be way better than the blu-ray. but you guys already mentioned most of them. |
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New member Username: HddvdownsgayrayWherever HD-DVD owns G..., HD US- the only... Post Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 |
but anyways, just buy a nice big screen Plasma TV and you will get the same results. |
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New member Username: GeozPost Number: 3 Registered: Jun-06 |
What? Blu-Ray needs the extra space because it's using the outdated and inefficient mpeg2 codec, I seriously hope to god none of you are thinking more space = better picture? So far the only Blu Ray discs that have been shipping out are the small 25gig discs, compared to the 30gig HD DVD discs. The de facto compression on HD DVD is h.264, which is like 4 or 5 times more efficient than the mpeg2 that Blu ray uses. Think about it, h264 movie in HD = 8mbps, mpeg2 = 40mbps. Blu-ray needs a lot load of space due to the inefficiency of mpeg2, a full length HD movie in h.264 will fit on a normal HD-DVD with the same or BETTER results the a bloated Blu-Ray Disc with Mpeg2, Blu ray’s advantage is that it’s larger with RAW space, great for backing up, if Sony ever releases that 50 gig disc cheaper then it is now, but that’s as far as it goes, it is certainly NOT superior in terms of picture quality unless they start adopting a different codec. Stop eating the megabyte hype. The codec is what matters, and HD DVD has the better one at the moment. |
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New member Username: TimjPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-06 |
Does any build and market a HD-DVD burner to consumers for less than $1000? Or even less than $2000? Or even have a HD-DVD burner that can be purchased by consumers in the US market place? |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 8 Registered: Jun-06 |
the diff between mpeg 2 h.262 and mpg 4 your h.264 is just compression.. hd dvd needs the extra compression becuase they dont have the same bandwitdh or capacity of blu ray. before they are out of the gates they are alreayd barely struggling to keep up with current video and audio standards.. sigh.. one only compresses things when one needs to do so, other wise why would you compress an image.. . the idea is to try and keep it as close to original as possible.. why do you htink all the online sites have jumped all over high compression.. not cuase it makes a better picture necessarily but because its just so much harder to send huge files across and they need everything as tight as possible.. now some times tigher compression will allow more and higher quality to go though on the same pipe.. which in this case still serves blu ray as their pipes and capacity are superior.. you see its NOT just capacity is bandwidth.. that 1/8th of an inch that all teh manufacturing companies are crying their eyes out over allows for a way higher bandwidth as well.. that means more data.. and this means nicer picture and better sound.. apparently the only thing consumers care about.. |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 9 Registered: Jun-06 |
rusty.. by your response it is painfully clear you understand nothing about the difference between blu ray and hd dvd.. a plasma screen will have no effect on how a dvd will look. what advantages have alreayd been mentioned?? what price? so inferior product, low bandwidth, low capacity but its a little bit cheaper? price for performance is way out of wack thats like buying a kia at 10 thousand when you could have bought a bmw for 12 thousand... and yes you are glad i dont run Sony cause if i did it would be the next microsofot and competition is good. |
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New member Username: JeffkfarnhamPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
HD-DVD will win on name alone. Ask my 90 year old grandmother What comes after a DVD she will tell you an HD-DVD. everyone knows HD and everyone knows DVD. Put the two together and that is what the average joe is going to ask for if they are looking for a HD movie. Blue-ray sounds like a fish not a HD format. |
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Silver Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU... Post Number: 123 Registered: Dec-06 |
Yep the average joe probably won't think much about it. |
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New member Username: MunchyPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
Unfortunately for Blu-Ray fans I don't think the format is going to survive. Even though the Blu-Ray is a better overall product, it just wont make sense to consumers. You can get HD-DVD players for about half the price as Blu Ray. If I'm interested in watching HD features, why do I need to spend twice as much for what is essentially the same quality? Also switching to Blu Ray would mean I have to replace all the DVD players in my house. The new HD-DVD's are made with a High Def and Standard version of the film and they can play in both HD or Standard DVD players. Of course the DVD name will make it a much easier choice for consumers as mentioned earlier. |
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New member Username: MunchyPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-06 |
I forgot to mention the way Sony forced the Blu Rays on anyone who wanted a PS3 was probably a pretty good sign of their desperation with this format. Now the PS3's are getting very little positive mention. |
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New member Username: Justwant2postPost Number: 10 Registered: Jun-06 |
granted the over all public is not that intelligent, i dont think they are as idiotic as you think, alot of people do research on the web before they buy something.. and if one is going to do some buying in the hundreds you can guarantee they are going to do some research.. either that. or they will ask the highschool grad at future shop/bestbuy/computer store and they will let them know which is better.. do you honestly believe with all teh marketing that people wont figure it out? uh duh.. d.. v... d... uh... honey go back cave.. wait till i find muvee.. come on?? people are going to see a isle at their favorite video store for blu ray.. and a isle for hd dvd.. even the most vacuous people will figure out whats going on..and with the level of intelligence that has figured out how to post on here.. surely these people can figure out there are two formats competing for their attention and that one is superior to the other.. read the faq on there to see eXACTly what the differences between the two formats.. BOTH have BACK WARDS COMPATIBILITY! a nasty rumour going around saying blu ray is not .. and sony didnt force blu ray on anyone with ps3.. thast just what it came with.. sayign that Sony forced that on any one is to say xbox forced dvds on other people?? ps3's success also has nothing to do with dvd formats, but rather on the games for it, and a lot of other factors related to that field. blu ray has more industry support.. way more capacity.. possibly a 200 gig disc!! way more bandwidth, way more potential.. dont take my word.. check out the official site below. http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Section14064/faqs/Index.html |
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New member Username: IcreatedesignPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-06 |
>Support America and buy a HD-DVD Player. >Do not be concerned about capacity blue-ray is using this as a selling point, but; reality is we do not need that much capcity today. In the future it is needed but we are not there yet. HD-DVD will take care of that when it is required, and by then consumers will be ready to replace their old HD-DVD players for a newer one at an affordable price. >Many people think you get more out of something if it is larger or holds more info but that is not true. As a Designer I am constently optimizing my work to a lower capacity in order to run faster not to fit it in a certain amount of space. Same applies to this blue-ray vs. HD-DVD battle with the motion picture buisness. >You do not need Maximum amount of space to produce higher quality. I wish blue-ray advocates would just realize that HD-DVD has capacity taken care of when time permits itself.}} |
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New member Username: Dragon2200Post Number: 5 Registered: Aug-06 |
Then why is the sound and picture quality of Hd-dvd superior to that of blu ray and sony did force blu ray on those who wanted the Playstation 3 for goodness sakes they aren't even using blu ray for games right now sony just put it into their system because if they didn't it would make sont doesnt believe in the the blu ray platform thus skyrocketing the price of the ps3, at least with xbox it's an option, and as for more supporters your right but quantity is no match for quality. |
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