DVI vs. HDMI vs. Component Video -- Which is Better?
First, to clear away one element that can be confusing: DVI and HDMI are exactly the same as one another, image-quality-wise. The principal differences are that HDMI carries audio as well as video, and uses a different type of connector, but both use the same encoding scheme, and that's why a DVI source can be connected to an HDMI monitor, or vice versa, with a DVI/HDMI cable, with no intervening converter box. The upshot of this article--in case you're not inclined to read all the details--is that it's very hard to predict whether a digital DVI or HDMI connection will produce a better or worse image than an analog component video connection. There will often be significant differences between the digital and the analog signals, but those differences are not inherent in the connection type and instead depend upon the characteristics of the source device (e.g., your DVD player) and the display device (e.g., your TV set). Why that is, however, requires a bit more discussion. What are DVI, HDMI and Component Video? DVI/HDMI and Component Video are all video standards which support a variety of resolutions, but which deliver the signal from the source to the display in very different ways. The principal important difference is that DVI/HDMI deliver the signal in a digital format, much the same way that a file is delivered from one computer to another along a network, while Component Video is an analog format, delivering the signal not as a bitstream, but as a set of continuously varying voltages representing (albeit indirectly, as we'll get to in a moment) the red, green and blue components of the signal. Both DVI/HDMI and Component Video deliver signals as discrete red, green, and blue color components, together with sync information which allows the display to determine when a new line, or a new frame, begins. The DVI/HDMI standard delivers these along three data channels in a format called T.M.D.S., which stands for "Transmission Minimized Differential Signaling." Big words aside, the T.M.D.S. format basically involves a blue channel to which horizontal and vertical sync are added, and separate green and red channels. Component Video is delivered, similarly, with the color information split up three ways. However, component video uses a "color-difference" type signal, which consists of Luminance (the "Y", or "green," channel, representing the total brightness of the image), Red Minus Luminance (the "Pr," or "Red," channel), and Blue Minus Luminance (the "Pb," or "Blue," channel). The sync pulses for both horizontal and vertical are delivered on the Y channel. The display calculates the values of red, green and blue from the Y, Pb, and Pr signals. Both signal types, then, are fundamentally quite similar; they break up the image in similar ways, and deliver the same type of information to the display, albeit in different forms. How they differ, as we'll see, will depend to a great extent upon the particular characteristics of the source and display devices, and can depend upon cabling as well. Isn't Digital Just Better? It is often supposed by writers on this subject that "digital is better." Digital signal transfer, it is assumed, is error-free, while analog signals are always subject to some amount of degradation and information loss. There is an element of truth to this argument, but it tends to fly in the face of real-world considerations. First, there is no reason why any perceptible degradation of an analog component video signal should occur even over rather substantial distances; the maximum runs in home theater installations do not present a challenge for analog cabling built to professional standards. Second, it is a flawed assumption to suppose that digital signal handling is always error-free. DVI and HDMI signals aren't subject to error correction; once information is lost, it's lost for good. That is not a consideration with well-made cable over short distances, but can easily become a factor at distance. So What Does Determine Image Quality? Video doesn't just translate directly from source material to displays, for a variety of reasons. Very few displays operate at the native resolutions of common source material, so when you're viewing material in 480p, 720p, or 1080i, there is, of necessity, some scaling going on. Meanwhile, the signals representing colors have to be accurately rendered, which is dependent on black level and "delta," the relationship between signal level and actual as-rendered color level. Original signal formats don't correspond well to display hardware; for example, DVD recordings have 480 lines, but non-square pixels. What all of this means is that there is signal processing to go on along the signal chain. The argument often made for the DVI or HDMI signal formats is the "pure digital" argument--that by taking a digital recording, such as a DVD or a digital satellite signal, and rendering it straight into digital form as a DVI or HDMI signal, and then delivering that digital signal straight to the display, there is a sort of a perfect no-loss-and-no-alteration-of-information signal chain. If the display itself is a native digital display (e.g. an LCD or Plasma display), the argument goes, the signal never has to undergo digital-to-analog conversion and therefore is less altered along the way. That might be true, were it not for the fact that digital signals are encoded in different ways and have to be converted, and that these signals have to be scaled and processed to be displayed. Consequently, there are always conversions going on, and these conversions aren't always easy going. "Digital to digital" conversion is no more a guarantee of signal quality than "digital to analog," and in practice may be substantially worse. Whether it's better or worse will depend upon the circuitry involved--and that is something which isn't usually practical to figure out. As a general rule, with consumer equipment, one simply doesn't know how signals are processed, and one doesn't know how that processing varies by input. Analog and digital inputs must either be scaled through separate circuits, or one must be converted to the other to use the same scaler. How is that done? In general, you won't find an answer to that anywhere in your instruction manual, and even if you did, it'd be hard to judge which is the better scaler without viewing the actual video output. It's fair to say, in general, that even in very high-end consumer gear, the quality of circuits for signal processing and scaling is quite variable. Additionally, it's not uncommon to find that the display characteristics of different inputs have been set up differently. Black level, for example, may vary considerably from the digital to the analog inputs, and depending on how sophisticated your setup options on your display are, that may not be an easy thing to recalibrate. The Role of Cable and Connection Quality Cable quality, in general, should not be a significant factor in the DVI/HDMI versus Component Video comparison, as long as the cables in question are of high quality. There are, however, ways in which cable quality issues can come into play. Analog component video is an extremely robust signal type; we have had our customers run analog component, without any need for boosters, relays or other special equipment, up to 200 feet without any signal quality issues at all. However, at long lengths, cable quality can be a consideration--in particular, impedance needs to be strictly controlled to a tight tolerance (ideally, 75 +/- 1.5 ohms) to prevent problems with signal reflection which can cause ghosting or ringing. DVI and HDMI, unfortunately, are not so robust. The problem here is the same as the virtue of analog component: tight control over impedance. When the professional video industry went to digital signals, it settled upon a standard--SDI, serial digital video--which was designed to be run in coaxial cables, where impedance can be controlled very tightly, and consequently, uncompressed, full-blown HD signals can be run hundreds of feet with no loss of information in SDI. For reasons known only to the designers of the DVI and HDMI standards, this very sound design principle was ignored; instead of coaxial cable, the DVI and HDMI signals are run balanced, through twisted-pair cable. The best twisted pair cables control impedance to about +/- 10%. When a digital signal is run through a cable, the edges of the bits (represented by sudden transitions in voltage) round off, and the rounding increases dramatically with distance. Meanwhile, poor control over impedance results in signal reflections--portions of the signal bounce off of the display end of the line, propagate back down the cable, and return, interfering with later information in the same bitstream. At some point, the data become unrecoverable, and with no error correction available, there's no way to restore the lost information. DVI and HDMI connections, for this reason, are subject to the "digital cliff" phenomenon. Up to some length, a DVI or HDMI cable will perform just fine; the rounding and reflections will not compromise the ability of the display device to reconstruct the original bitstream, and no information will be lost. As we make the cable longer and longer, the difficulty of reconstructing the bitstream increases. At some point, unrecoverable bit errors start to occur; these are colloquially described in the home theater community as "sparklies," because the bit errors manifest themselves as pixel dropouts which make the image sparkle. If we make the cable just a bit longer, so much information is lost that the display becomes unable to reconstitute enough information to even render an image; the bitstream has fallen off the digital cliff, so called because of the abruptness of the failure. A cable design that works perfectly at 20 feet may get "sparkly" at 25, and stop working entirely at 30. In practice, it's very hard to say when a DVI or HDMI signal will fail. We have found well-made DVI cables to be quite reliable up to 50 feet, but HDMI cable, with its smaller profile, is a bit more of a puzzle. Because the ability to reconstitute the bitstream varies depending on the quality of the circuitry in the source and display devices, it's not uncommon for a cable to work fine at 30, 40, or 50 feet on one source/display combination, and not work at all on another. The Upshot: It Depends So, which is better, DVI or component? HDMI or component? The answer--unsatisfying, perhaps, but true--is that it depends. It depends upon your source and display devices, and there's no good way, in principle, to say in advance whether the digital or the analog connection will render a better picture. You may even find, say, that your DVD player looks better through its DVI or HDMI output, while your satellite or cable box looks better through its component output, on the same display. In this case, there's no real substitute for simply plugging it in and giving it a try both ways. by Blue Jeans Cable (reprinted with permission) |
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     Unregistered guest |
Your point is well-taken. We must experiment. Very well-written and informative article. |
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Unregistered guest |
Here's my problem, I have the "the dish network" and its HD service. I have a sony HD TV (KV-32HS510) and I am using the DVI connection to connect to the "the dish network" HD receiver. And well the image quality is awesome on the HD channels at 1080i, but at that resolution the display has diagonal lines, as if it's refreshing it's self. Okay, at first I thought it was the cable, so I went through four different DVI-D cables, same effect each time. Okay, so then I requested a new HD receiver, unfortunately it had the same effect. I then had a good guy's technician examine my TV, he said it must be the HD receiver. So now I am living with the effect, nothing else I can think of doing. Does anyone have any suggestions? |
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RWPL Unregistered guest |
I have an Arcam DV79 and Pioneer plasma. Both support HDMI, which was one of the reasons i choose these particular models. I was quite amazed that the HDMI picture is no different to the component one. Having read so much in the media at the time, I was sure that HDMI picture quality would be better. It wasn't! I am now using component. |
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Anonymous |
HDMI isn't necessarily about a superior picture. Among other things its flexible enough to enable someone to pay tolls to literally buy hi def dvd disc copies of various movies -from home Play-only hi def dvd starts in Fall 2005, however the more complicated issue is the record hi def dvd disc question. NOTE STUDIOS WILL NEVER PERMIT W/O PAYMENT ANY HI DEF PORTABLE DVD COPIES TO BE MADE, otherwise they w/b crazy - as one copy could mean 1000 copies. Their copyrights would in essence be worthless This technology is a bit away and the studios and munufacturers are still trying to figure it all out, however it will arrive some day, and HDMI gives them that flexibility Meanwhile note that fortunately the studios deem making copies onto a hard drive (e.g. Motorola DCT6400 avail via Comcast, plus various other units for the SATS)as de facto valid under the "fair use" exception, meaning they can be and normally only will be used within a household in practical terms Ideally we could use some larger hard drives and everyone would be happy |
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tainted Unregistered guest |
In regard to higher capacity discs and burning, it will come in time. We will have the burners, and there will be programs to copy movies the same as we have now. To think that the owners of any media will ever eliminate the reproduction of their works is just being naieve, just as it is to think that everyone who makes copies of media is distributing them. |
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Unregistered guest |
I am so glad I read this first, along with the comments. I am upgrading to a LCD television that has the HDMI compatibility, but my year old DVD and Receiver/Amp do not. I was thinking about dumping the $200 into a new DVD player and hooking it strait to the TV, bypassing the Surround sound. The cable price is also about an additional $100. What a mistake that would have been?! |
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Anonymous |
I have to disagree a little with this subject. I currently have a Pioneer Elite Pro1110HD and a Elite DV-59AVI. I can not output 1920x1080 through the component video connections. I can acheive this through the HDMI cable. And it looks awesome. I think the consumer needs to be more educated and match the native resolution of there devices. Also, even the best serial digitial coax cable are sweep tested at 3 GHz bandwidths and HDMI cables are getting 5 GHz bandwidth. |
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New member Username: MailmanPaarl, Western Cape South Africa Post Number: 7 Registered: Nov-04 |
Purely from the Audio quality point of view is there anything clearly pointing in the direction of one of the two ? |
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Unregistered guest |
i have a samsung dlp 50in, the pedestal type, hooked up to bravo d2 through dvi cable 15ft, the display is AWESOME!!!! except for the d2's remote, it interferes with the rec and vice versa, anybody?? please advice...i know this question is not in this article, but i need ur input, thx... btw, grt article so much information taken...thx again!!!! |
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RussV Unregistered guest |
HDMI/DVI versus Component in terms of Upscaling. I have had several debates with so-claimed audio/video experts on the use of HDMI/DVI versus Component and around the subject of upscaling. Most HDTV LCD/Plasma have a native resolution of 720p. Only the newer 45" LCD have a 1080p native resolution. Those TVs will adapt most signals to it's native resolution. So - there are some DVD players that will also do their own up-conversion to 720p or 1080i (Denon, Sony, Samsung.....) and they can only be effective when using a HDMI/DVI cable....so my question is would it be better for your DVD player to up-convert and transfer the digital signal via HDMI/DVI....or would it be better to use component cables to transer the signal to the TV and have it up-convert.......or even yet - would it be better to trasnfer the signal digitally from the DVD player to the TV at 480p and have the TV upconvert it to 720p? The warning for the latter is that some digital TVs will also support 480p meaning no up-conversion will take place......there doesn't seem to be a text-book answer on which is better. |
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Silver Member Username: VindslPost Number: 125 Registered: Jul-04 |
Component is best! That's why 'they' use it in professional video equipment... What more can you say?  |
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Silver Member Username: VindslPost Number: 126 Registered: Jul-04 |
It is often supposed by writers on this subject that "digital is better." That's true! However, the only 'true' digital connection is a 'light sword', e.g. fiber optics, so... |
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Silver Member Username: VindslPost Number: 127 Registered: Jul-04 |
A cable design that works perfectly at 20 feet may get "sparkly" at 25, and stop working entirely at 30. If you have long cable runs, go s-video. That's the only reason it's still around - that and use with high-end digital camcorders and such - things that have a better DAC than your TV. It's good for 50-60 ft. DVI usually starts crapping out around 16 ft. Dittos for HDMI... |
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Silver Member Username: VindslPost Number: 128 Registered: Jul-04 |
My question is would it be better for your DVD player to up-convert and transfer the digital signal via HDMI/DVI? If your player has a Farouja chipset, let it do the upscaling. Otherwise, pass it off to the TV... |
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m green Unregistered guest |
thanks very much, helpful and well written |
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Unregistered guest |
I have a DELL W4200HD Plasma, connected via PureAV Belkin HDMI cable to a Samsung H10 receiver, I am experiencing issues with the picture going out occasionally and as of yesterday I am also having issue with the sound only when viewing HD broacast. A support tech at BestBuy mentioned to me that he has been told that there are issues with HDMI cables. Can anyone shed light on the subject? Thanks, E.R. |
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Unregistered guest |
Ok lets see if anyone has a solution for this. I do HDV editing via my pc, I have the new Z1u HDV camera by Sony. I just got the Sony xbr960 34-inch tube HDTV for one major reason. FIRE WIRE. I would much rather see and know that my digital HD video is being monitored, as it should be instead of doing a conversion from hdv to svideo. When I first got the TV I plugged my z1u into it via fire wire immediately and pressed play. I was stunned at the picture. Never have I ever seen such a picture. I felt as if I could reach through the glass into this world. I could see incredible detail in the footage I shot. At this point I am really happy, the fire wire connection was very impressive as compared to video and SD. Now for hooking up my fire wire out of my editing pc to my Sony HDTV which has fire wire inputs. I assumed that because while editing you can go out your fire wire into a dv or hdv camera to view the signal then the same would be true for the fire wire equipped TV. My result was that the pc recognized the TV and its model but it wanted a driver interact with it. So in the end no picture on the TV. Sony officially says it was not designed for that. So my best option unless you guys have another is to go out of my pc via fire wire >into my HDV camera>out of my camera via component rgb and into >my TV. I was hoping there were a fire wire to dvi/hdmi converter but no such luck. I think what will end up happening in the near future is that graphics cards/editing cards for pc or Mac will have an extra dvi/hdmi out for your TV and the software will understand to put the program signal out that port. But for right now if you have to LCD DVI monitors and your editing I cant think of a better solution than what I have just proposed. Its true when I am done with ruff or final cuts of my project I could unplug one of my monitors dvi cables and plug it into the HDTV via an dvi/hdmi adapter then play the final peace in full screen from a player like Nero or something. Well guys give me some answers J |
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nismo240 Unregistered guest |
I have a Sony KV-30HS510 and I'm currently using the DVI connection from my motorola HD-box, but back to back test using the DVI and component resulted in a brighter picture with the component connection, which surprised me, it that normal? I use the DVE dvd to calibrate my system, but my dvd only has component connects, I thinking because of that my settings are only optimize for component inputs, but even so you would think that you would think that the DVI would produce a brighter picture than the component. I must add though that I still use the DVI connection because I feel that other than a darker picture, you do get better colors and much deeper blacks or it could just be the "digital to digital" factor swaying me...hmmm |
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ogbuehi Unregistered guest |
For Jason1569, if you want to connect your pc directly to your tv, they have video cards that have a DVI output for your tv. Just be aware that to get a card that outputs full 1080i, you are going to spend about $300. For nismo240, I don't know if this is an option for you but you could buy an upconverting DVD player that outputs 720p or 1080i through HDMI or DVI. If you want the best picture possible from your dvd's this is definetly a worthwhile investment. I've been reading a lot of comments on people getting not too hot results for viewing non-hd material through DVI/HDMI. |
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coyote Unregistered guest |
jason1569 said; "I think what will end up happening in the near future is that graphics cards/editing cards for pc or Mac will have an extra dvi/hdmi out for your TV and the software will understand to put the program signal out that port." Asus makes a PC with an onboard DVI output. My question: Shouldn't that PC be able to skip any videocard processing, and simply put the digital stream directly out the DVI? And if paired with an HD capture card (such as Air2PC or MyHD130) which captures the stream directly to hard disk, wouldn't it obviate the need for a high-end video card such as the Raedon? |
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New member Username: StormPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-05 |
I recently bought an LGDVB416 DVD player. It should upconvert to 1080i. However, the manual states that when using component cables it will upconvert to 480p only; when playing copy protected material (which is all rental DVD's). Are all DVD players that upconvert and using component cables limited in this way? |
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Anonymous |
Great discussion. So, if I connect my TEAC HD STB DVI out to Pioneer HDMI using a DVI to HDMI cable, will it work? |
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Unregistered guest |
For copy protection, read up on HDPC. If you are buying a cable for DVI, understand there are SIX different configurations, some with analog video, some two way etc. There are DVI analog to VGA adaptors, there are very expensive DVI digital to analog adaptors and best of all is the fiber optics (noted in an earlier post) requiring power and some which does not require external power. Installer beware! |
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jmtdhurst Unregistered guest |
I have a Pioneer PDP-5010HD. It doesn't appear to have the DVI or HDMI inputs (only component or RGB(whatever that is)). Will a DVD player that upconverts to 1080i or 720p using component cables be any better than a 480p with component cables? |
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Anonymous |
Think twice before investing into DVI/HDMI solutions! One of the major reasons the studios are pushing DVI/HDMI interfaces in upcoming players is because those interfaces provide COPYRIGHT PROTECTION!!! Component output, on the other hand, provides no way to protect the content transmitted over it. Quality-wise, I can't tell the difference between component and DVI in any of my systems, so I always use component. Be careful if you decide to go the DVI/HDMI route, though, because if you go that way, you will NOT be able to record the content (unless you hack HDCP, which will take a while). With component, though, it is very veasible to build a simple box that will take a unversal component in (1080i/1080p/720p/480p/480i), encode it into MPEG-2 and ship digital out to firewire. There are already boxes coming to the market that do that. I, personally, only buy equipment that has component output. And preferably, ONLY component output - watch out for some of the BlueRay players that have both component and HDMI, but disable component when high-definition content is being played - don't buy such players! Just my 2 cents. |
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tallrussian Unregistered guest |
I recently bought AVeL LinkPlayer 2 that converts all DVDs to 1080i output on the component. Before that I had a Pioneer player that played everything in 480p. I have Sony KDF-42WE655 TV that upconverts everything to its native 1080 resolution automatically. To tell you the truth, I don't see much difference between rental DVDs played at 480p (with my old Pioneer) or at 1080i (with my new AVeL LinkPlayer). They all look fabulous (maybe just a bit better with the AVeL). Of course, the best part of AVeL is its network playback capabilities (plays files from your harddrive/PC), and the ability to play high-def 1080i and 1080p (!) content from AVI/WMV/TS/MP2, etc files either from the network or from its local CD/DVD drive, that's the biggest reason I bought it. jmtdhurst wrote: > I have a Pioneer PDP-5010HD. It doesn't appear > to have the DVI or HDMI inputs (only component > or RGB(whatever that is)). Will a DVD player > that upconverts to 1080i or 720p using component > cables be any better than a 480p with component > cables? |
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Unregistered guest |
I believe the issue is #1 the frequency response of component video averages out to about 13mhz. #2 The frequency response of dvi/hdmi averages out past 18mhz. In conclusion if you want to push 1080 or 720 you will need cable to reach past 18mhz and that is dvi/hdmi. Component video is best at 480 peaking at 13mhz. |
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Auburnsnapper Unregistered guest |
Distance Issue. Between display and rack have about 20-25 ft. Connecting new DVD player with DVI connection. Should I place it in the rack and run the DVI the 20-25 ft or should I put player by the TV running the audio connnection(toslink or Composite)the distance? Which would maximize the video and the sound? |
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Unregistered guest |
Dear Sir/Madam, I have recently purchased a Panasonic TH-50PV30 Plasma "High Defifinition" set. The picture using Standard definition broadcasts are exceptionally impressive on this set, but the question mark remains as to weather it can display true HD television pictures, as there is no information in the instruction leaflet about High definition reception,although the set is described as "High definiton" on the front cover of the manual. There is no sign of any HDMI or DVI connections, and Panasonic have told me much to my dissappointment that The component video inputs at the back of the set will not provide true High definition pictures. I have asked Panasonic if these component video inputs are of a wide bandwidth, but they do not seem to know the answer, and there are no specifications about the component inputs in the instructions. Could you please resolve this problem for me, and try to find out if my receiver can indeed provide High definition pictures, using the component video connections? |
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AlanComponent Unregistered guest |
If your TV has only one set of component video inputs available, can you put a "Y" connector on each of the three inputs to allow for two units: DVD and computer media D-Link DSM-320 to be attached at a time)? |
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Dubya Unregistered guest |
Dear Sir/Madam, I have recently purchased a Panasonic TH-50PV30 Plasma "High Defifinition" set. The picture using Standard definition broadcasts are exceptionally impressive on this set, but the question mark remains as to weather it can display true HD television pictures, as there is no information in the instruction leaflet about High definition reception,although the set is described as "High definiton" on the front cover of the manual. There is no sign of any HDMI or DVI connections, and Panasonic have told me much to my dissappointment that The component video inputs at the back of the set will not provide true High definition pictures. I have asked Panasonic if these component video inputs are of a wide bandwidth, but they do not seem to know the answer, and there are no specifications about the component inputs in the instructions. Could you please resolve this problem for me, and try to find out if my receiver can indeed provide High definition pictures, using the component video connections? Ivor Nicholas, you should check to see if your TV is "HD Ready" or "HD Compatable". If this is the case, then it does not have an HD Tuner in it, and you have to get one separately. If it's a tru HD TV, then most likely, that "exceptionally impressive" picture is probably only a taste of what you would get if you had a true HD Signal hooked up to your Component Inputs. |
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troy heagy Unregistered guest |
DVI = ~25 feet max Component = ~200 feet I think it's obvious which I'd choose - the one with longer line length & less signal loss. |
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pjm2120 Unregistered guest |
I have a TV with HDMI Input as the only available source for HDTV input (even though it has component, but it doesn't recognize those as HD) and my cable box only has component outputs, as does my DVD player. Anyone know of any component to HDMI adaptors? I tried to look but they all seem to show up only as DVI to HDMI adaptors. Please provide a store name or just where to look. Thanks |
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Unregistered guest |
Dear Troy Heagy,Or anyone who can solve My question) Many thanks for Your reply to My enquiry about My Plsma HD Television! However, Your comments do not answer My question: What I really meant was: Can a HD Tuner be connected to My telly via My component video inputs, as I do not have any other inputs such as DVI or HDMI? I should mention that I live in the United Kingdom, where We do not have HD Television as yet, and which is due to be launched by "Sky Satellite" next Year, i.e. 2006. I am aware that My Television does not have a built in HD tuner, but the question I am trying to find the answer to is; will My component inputs be usable in the UK (To connect to a "sky" HD Tuner to convert to HD,) or might they turn out to be obsolete in My Country? Regards, Ivor Nicholas. |
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New member Username: AsterixPost Number: 1 Registered: May-05 |
I thoroughly enjoyed reading about the differences between component and DVI/HDMI video standards as well as their real world/theoretical limits and quality issues. I own a Mitsubishi WD-62525 and an awesome DVD player RJ1500DVXII http://www.rjtech.net/desc_RJ-1500DVXII.htm The dvd player is capable of displaying 480p which is acceptable and I am happy with the output (component). This particular dvd player (available on eBay) supports a great variety of formats including DiVX and XViD. I highly recommend reading about it on: http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=RJTech+1500&Search=Search&chipse t=&country=&orderby=Name&hits=25 I too, like some of you, got sucked into trying the DVI/HDMI connection for my high definition cable box. I ran into a major problem of not being able to run it using MonLink in the TV setup. Essentially I got an error message on the TV screen saying that my TV does not support HDCP. Mitsubishi tech support assured me that the TV does support HDCP and that the issue should be addressed with my cable provider (TimeWarner). After two hours of frustration (trying every possible solution, searching the web and talking to some semi ignorant cable tech support people) trying to get the digital cable to work, I gave up. I also felt that paying $150 for the ultimate HDMI/DVI cable from Monster cables was borderline insane. After reading this discussion I went back to using component cables which provide me with awesome 1080p picture quality... I believe the old saying: If you can't see the difference, why pay a difference. It is true that I was not able to see the DVI/HDMI output on my TV but after a lot of research on the web it seems that the bottom line is that your picture quality essentially rests on the quality of your display and the capabilities of your periferals (DVD player, cable box). I would like to see what my DVD movies would look like in 720p with a newer DVD player but I am quite happy with the existing setup. What are your thoughts on my experience? |
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Anonymous |
Have I goofed? Can someone put my mind at rest!. I have installed but yet to fire up in anger a Screenplay 4805 with a Yamaha 750 receiver (which upscales)and have a denon 1910 which has DVI output. Q. I have used component leads to the projector and basically ignore the Screenplays DVI connector.have I missed an opportunity to get a better picture out of my denon/screenplay combination? Thanks Jon |
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Unregistered guest |
I need help! I recently purchased a Mitsubishi 55" HDTV compatible televsion (model WS-55315). I am running a regular DirectTV receiver and system on the tv using an s-video hook-up. I am not concerned about HD channels. My concern is with the regular channels. I get a strong signal from the dish (85-90) but the picture still appears grainy and blurry, especially during sporting events. I do have a long cable run and have hooked-up a satellite in-line amplifier that is self powered. I have been on the phone with DirectTV many times and can not get an answer as to why the picture is not better. The picture when watching a DVD seems better than the one I am getting from the dish. What else could I try or get to receive a more clear picture. Is the tv just not good and I will have to live with it? It didn't look near this poor in the store or I wouldn't have bought it. The picture on the tv shouldn't be that bad should it? I have tried using rca and s-video cables, several different kinds. The receiver does not have any component of dvi outputs. Is there a problem with the installation? Help! Thanks. |
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Unregistered guest |
I am planning to buy a 50 inch Panansonic TH-50 PHD7UY HD TV monitor; the TV comes standard with Component input and extra for HDMI input. I plan also to use DIRECT-TV for HD service. DIRECT-TV offers both HDMI and component output in their HD receiver. I also plan to take sound directly from the DIRECT-TV receiver and input it directly in to my Sony HT-DDW750 home theater system. Since HDMI carries both video and audio, is it worth it to buy the HDMI input capability in my TV. My Toshiba SD3960 DVD player has only component output. Is the HDMI TV input worth the extra $145? |
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Petchal Unregistered guest |
i would get HDMI anyway, you'll need to get it in a few years.... quick vote: http://site.voila.fr/hdmi/index.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: VideobruceBuffalo , NY Post Number: 13 Registered: Nov-04 |
HDMI is a cheaper to produce connector with a larger price tag! GPM (Gross Profit Monster). |
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irishfan007 Unregistered guest |
I went to American Electronics yesterday and looked at both DVI and HDMI compared to Component Video. You cannot tell a difference. The sales man tried to convice me and a colleague to no avail. The DVD player was a DENON 1910 that he used it had HDMI plugins and component. It also had the Farouji chip. I could not tell a differnece compared to my Panasonic player at home. Bottom Line: There is always a new "Technology" to try and replace the old. In the case of HDMI it may make more sense but it is not necessarily better. |
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Unregistered guest |
Here is my situation, i have a plus V1080 projector and I am quite happy with it , HD TV looks great. I am upgrading my computer, and want to play DVD's using it and get rid of my very old pioneer dvd player. So what will give me the better quality picture DVI or VGA? If i go with the IMac i will have VGA output at 8X read speed. If i get the Mac Mini it will read at 8X also BUT it will have DVI out! I am not in need of a G5 processor, the Imac is pretty cool though... if DVI out of MacMini will give me a better image than the VGA out of the IMac then i would get the MacMini and a 20" screen for my computer screen, and use a DVI switch to direct signal to screen or projector. Thanks in advance. |
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richard n. Unregistered guest |
I have Dish network HDTV receiver with DVI output and regular red/white AV audio wire. If I buy a HDTV with HDMI input, where does the AV audio go? Can I still get audio if I select HDMI source? |
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alan morris Unregistered guest |
RF is the best and you know it! |
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Unregistered guest |
Is there a DVD player that can push 720P/1080P over component cable? Richard |
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Anonymous |
hi, i am planning to buy a hdtv/hd ready tv. i have two models in mind which one do you recommend. samsung 40" LNR408D and Benq 37" DV3750 (is this a good brand to go for...) rathin_kumar@hotmail.com thanks in advance Rathin |
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Unregistered guest |
This is for richard n. I just bought a Samsung HL-P4663W and it has an HDMI connector on the back, but it also has a dedicated audio connector just for the HDMI connection. I'm getting ready to get the Dish Network 811 receiver for my TV, I have the standard DP310 receiver now. I'm planning on using the HDMI connection for that, as it stands now, I'm using the regular RCA cables for my receiver and component cables for my (cheap) dvd player. Hope this helps. |
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Unregistered guest |
This is for richard n. Forget everything I just said, my brain was thinking DVI but my hands were typing HDMI. HDMI contains audio and video, DVI only connects video, for DVI you would need seperate audio connectors. HDMI is only 1 connection and it contains audio and video. Sorry for the confusion. |
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Stereo punk Unregistered guest |
YES, YES, YES, Thank God I try and try to tell customers the same thing and everyone looks at me like I am crazy. |
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Pinguino Unregistered guest |
I have a Pioneer PDP-433HDE (DVI input works directly with PC DVI output) I also have a Pioneer DV868. If the 433HDE is not HDCP compliant can I then connect the DV868 digitally to the screen using a SDI output on the 868 to an SDI input on a scaler with a HDMI output (for future compatibility, once I get a screen with HDMI) and connect this to the 433HDE? SDI has no HDCP on it I understand and therefore will scalers output the signal on HDMI without HDCP? |
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jdsony Unregistered guest |
Well you can get a PC video card for well under $100 with DVI that can do 1080i res. If you are going to play games you'll want something a little better. Overscan is a real problem though. Nvidia cards have better support for DVI and adjusting the overscan while ATI has good support for their component adapter but not when using DVI. I have an ATI card and use Powerstrip to help with custom resolutions and such. 1080i (1920x1080) gives me too much overscan. 1776x1000 fits my screen almost perfectly. The desktop is not very good at this res though. |
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Dr. Richalds Unregistered guest |
I experienced something very odd when I tried out my HDMI from my Comcast Hi Def Box. On my Philips LCD, it made every channel almost hi-def quality, albeit in a 4:3 format. I really don't mind it being show in 4:3 because the picture quality is far superior, partcularly among non-hi-def channels. The actual high-def channels remain in the 16:9 format and are very crisp and enhance color contrast like I've never seen, even better than component. This new setup also allows me to use HDMI for cable leaving my component connection free for use with my DVD player (one I bought in 2001). I had always wondered what the hell those 3 connectors were for. And for those who don't know... Component vs HDMI has nothing to do with audio. Audio remains RCA no matter what. But in video it basically goes: RCA (composite), S-Video, Component/HDMI/DVI (try for yourself). HDMI is great for Comcast Digital Cable to LCD. |
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michael o sullivan Unregistered guest |
the playstation 3 has hdmi but not component,is my hd lcd with component out of date already and if so are all component tv`s as all future entertainment equipment will be hdmi,certainly when the playstation 4 comes out(less than 5 years) so weather component is better is irrelevent, its out of date |
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Unregistered guest |
Plasma newbie here... although not new to home theater; now that my Pioneer Elite 51" RPTV blew up, I'm going plasma and selected an EDTV set (with eyes wide open there). My question is that the cable company will supply the HD box and HDMI cable, I've always hedged my bets in the past and bought "better" video and audio cables in the past... does the same hold true for a relatively short run of HDMI cable? ie should I go out and buy a better quality HDMI cable off the bat or is it likely that the one supplied by the cable company will provide a near optimal result? My plan for now is to use HDMI for the signal from the cable box and component/optical from the PSDVD player. Thanks. Steve |
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Anonymous |
I am about to but a DVD player and am looking at the Arcam DV78, unfortunately this unit does not have an HDMI output BUT for $800 more, the DV 79 does. My questions are: If this is the only considration (HDMI), is the $$$ worth it because in the near future component will be obsolete ? OR Do you feel that component will be around in 10 yrs ? NB: I play mainly DVD's right now and am upgrading to a HD Monitor (DLP, LCD or Plasma-not sure as yet) I will be playing HD sources in 1-2 yrs. Secondly: The other reason to spend and get the DV 79 is becuase it plays DVD-A. Any thoughts on DVD-A and SACD ? Will they survive or will blueray kill them both within 2 yrs, in which case neither the DV 78 or 79 will play that format. Thanks |
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New member Username: Logen21Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-05 |
!!! DON'T MAKE THE CABLE MISTAKE !!! DVI or HDMI cables would be considered better ONLY BECAUSE it's the ONLY way to view 1080i or higher res output! People don't seem to realize that consumer Component video cables support the native DVD 480 resolution,and even 720, but Component cables weren't made for the future. They DON'T support 1080i or higher resolutions due to limits in the consumer's hardware (the hardware connections were never made to support the higher res bandwidth through these cables by the consumer electronics companies). You just CAN'T use consumer Component cable connections to fully view 1080i or higher res, it's impossible. So if you think that by setting your hardware to output 1080i and you're still using component cables to view it, you are just fooling yourself. For 1080i or higher res, you must use the STANDARDS of DVI(digital) or HDMI cables (they were both made for the the reason of fully supporting these higher resolutions). |
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Unregistered guest |
I am new to HDMI/DVI vs. analog. I think I get the whole thing about attenuation occuring with signal conversion. I understand sisgnal atenuation over distance. Is it not true that standard RG-6 is still the best for long distance caries vs. running Hdmi over the same distance? |
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A King Unregistered guest |
Very good points have been raised here in the discussion, yet as the article points out: It is our own equipment that is the largest variable and most of all our EYES are the final decision makers. My questions is simple: Suppose I am running HDMI from a Satellite Box or DVD player directly to the TV, how do I get the benefit of the sound that is going through that cable? Run optical to the reciever from source? Run 'audio out' from TV to reciever? I appreciate any help. |
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420emjsteel Unregistered guest |
this was the best article I read that answered all the question's I've had. I enjoyed reading it and my congrats to the author. :-) |
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Anonymous |
Thank you for a very informative article. I have a question, as much of the discussion has centered on connections between the TV and DVD players -- what is the best connection between a STB (I have Comcast HD service) and the TV? The STB offers DVI and component; my TV (Panasonic CT30WX54) offers HDMI and component. TV can display both 1080i and 480, but not 720. Comments / advice appreciated. Thanks! |
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Unregistered guest |
My question is rather simple. I have just bought the new Samsung LA40R51B LCD TV (HDMI). What DVD player should I buy that is compatible with this LCD that will also give me the best resoluting via HDMI?? |
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New member Username: Chuck_pisanoPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-05 |
Ok..I just bought a Sony 55'' LCD TV. It has 2 HDMI's. I am getting ready to buy a new dvd player. Looking for recomendations for Sony vs. Denon. It seems that I should be taking advantage of the HDMI conncection for highest resolution pay-off. |
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Hogan40 Unregistered guest |
I am considering purchasing a Mitsubishi television with DVI input. Is that a mistake? Should I get a television with HDMI input instead? |
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Unregistered guest |
Just installed the SA 8300HD/DVR; AWESOME! Connected my Sony KV34XBR960, by HDMI Improved overall picture quality, by 10-20%, compared to my SA 4200HD box, with DVI/HDMI connection. Sound is definitely crisper. SD channels, have the most improvement HD channels, are somewhat sharper Go HDMI! |
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DH Unregistered guest |
Three questions: (1)What is the max one can go up to usinig a component connection; 480p or 720p? (2) For those using a Samsung DLP and a DVI connection to DVD/Cable-Are there any noticable differences in using 1080i/i.g. worth getting a DVD w/DVI? (3)Can you make use of computer to TV DVI (or RGB)connection to record TV shows-or the connection has to go through the DVD player-w/microsoft media builder O.S. Thanks for all your inputs Dan. |
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Nerd713 Unregistered guest |
-DH Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe component video can go up to 1080i, not just 480p or 720p. |
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New member Username: CxvPost Number: 1 Registered: Aug-05 |
I also think component video can do 1080i, if component video can handle 720p then it would have no problem with 1080i. |
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DH Unregistered guest |
I Read the following comment: !!! DON'T MAKE THE CABLE MISTAKE !!! DVI or HDMI cables would be considered better ONLY BECAUSE it's the ONLY way to view 1080i or higher res output! People don't seem to realize that consumer Component video cables support the native DVD 480 resolution,and even 720, but Component cables weren't made for the future. They DON'T support 1080i or higher resolutions due to limits in the consumer's hardware (the hardware connections were never made to support the higher res bandwidth through these cables by the consumer electronics companies). You just CAN'T use consumer Component cable connections to fully view 1080i or higher res, it's impossible. So if you think that by setting your hardware to output 1080i and you're still using component cables to view it, you are just fooling yourself. For 1080i or higher res, you must use the STANDARDS of DVI(digital) or HDMI cables (they were both made for the the reason of fully supporting these higher resolutions)." IS THAT SO? |
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Unregistered guest |
I see a lot of questions here - but very few answers . . . here goes! Does anyone make an adapter that you can plug into a DVI female and two RCA (L & R) female audio jacks and have an HDMI female on the other side? I'm trying to go from a Motorola DCT 6412 cable box from Comcast (no HDMI output) to a 37" Sharp Aquos LCD (input line 4) using an HDMI male to HDMI male cable. Input line 4 (the HDMI input) expects both the audio and video to be on the HDMI input. Many Thanks, Bob |
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Anonymous |
This thread is the biggest gone show I have ever read! You have people stating that you cant view high def over component cables, and that hdmi/dvi is the only way to see it. Did you READ the article at the top of this page??? Any advantage from a video standpoint is situation dependant in reagrds to Component vs DVI/HDMI. To say that component connections cannot pass 1080i or 720p is crazy. Maybe some DVD players/ hardware only upscale using the digital connctions, but that is not an inherant flaw in component video connections. Component connections are almost always just as good if not better looking to their digital counterparts. READ THE STINKIN ARTICLE... |
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DH Unregistered guest |
I was just re-quoting what sombody posted earlier and for a moment I thought it was true. Actually, even on the component output it states that it can play 720p and 1081i. Thanks for comments. What about recording HDTV to DvD's-how does it work? |
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memebag Unregistered guest |
I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR connected to a Hitachi 57" HD RP set via component cables and 1080i works beautifully. Ignore LoGen21. |
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Anonymous |
DisplayPort will replace them all so it doesn't matter http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-583 8703.html |
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Unregistered guest |
Excellent article, and for once, a completely unbiased and unemotional view. Thank you. Now to another question. I bought a number of flat screen TV's while in the US recently - Philips, Sony, and LG. All have varying capabilities. However, it looks like I must now return to the UK and since these were not inexpensive items I need to decide whether these are usable in the UK. Since these take digital feeds (DVI & HDMI) I am presuming that so long the source (DVD, cable box etc) delivers this, I can ignore differences between NTSC and PAL which plague analog systems. Am I completely off my rocker, should I be spending my week on eBay to shift these babies or can I keep them? What do you think? Your thoughts much appreciated. Steve |
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newcomer Unregistered guest |
I just bought a Panasonic TH42PHD7UY, which does not come with speakers. I can purchase optional terminal boards include DVI and HDMI. The HDMI board is out of stock in the entire North America. Since I am going to connect the sound through a home theater system anyway, is there anything I am going to lose in the future if I go buy the DVI board now? |
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JDSvoboda Unregistered guest |
"I Read the following comment: !!! DON'T MAKE THE CABLE MISTAKE !!! DVI or HDMI cables would be considered better ONLY BECAUSE it's the ONLY way to view 1080i or higher res output! People don't seem to realize that consumer Component video cables support the native DVD 480 resolution,and even 720, but Component cables weren't made for the future. They DON'T support 1080i or higher resolutions due to limits in the consumer's hardware (the hardware connections were never made to support the higher res bandwidth through these cables by the consumer electronics companies). You just CAN'T use consumer Component cable connections to fully view 1080i or higher res, it's impossible. So if you think that by setting your hardware to output 1080i and you're still using component cables to view it, you are just fooling yourself. For 1080i or higher res, you must use the STANDARDS of DVI(digital) or HDMI cables (they were both made for the the reason of fully supporting these higher resolutions)." IS THAT SO?" So much misinformation floating about. No, it is not so. HIgh quality coax RG-6, such as made by Belden and Canare, can carry large amounts of data, up to and including 1080p at high refresh rates. But, the higher the data rate the shorter the length limitation. Still, with care and high qaulity termination (special tools & hardware), any home theater run works. An irony here is that HDTV is the ONLY type of analog signal that I know of that will actually max-out the capacity of an a cable. The audiophiles who think they need hyper-expensive cables are kidding thenselves, as are people who buy cheap, long component video cables. That said, a HDTV signal that is sent through a less than ideal cable will degrade marginally in most cases. Most displays are so poorly adjusted/calibrated/designed that few users would ever see the difference. On DVI there is a similar length limnitation, again dependent on the quality of the cable and the size of the signal. I have seen 1080i at 35' done perfectly over DVI. But that is COPPER DVI. There is also OPTICAL DVI, with electro-optical converters at each end of the cable. These are largely adapted units from Internet backbone hardware manufacturers. They cost about $500, but can carry any signal to almost any length imaginable. The lesson of the story is that a qualified professional installer (think ISF/HAA, CEDIA is a bit of a joke) can do almost anything, just bring money. |
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rockily Unregistered guest |
I just purchased a Samsung HD-DLP televeision and hooked up my HD cable box last night. I flipped back and forth between the HD channel showing the NY Mets game and reguar channel showing the same game and I have to say that there wasn't a hell of a difference. I used component wires to go from the box to the TV, and I think it was set up right. Should there be a clear difference between the two? |
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Unregistered guest |
Help!! I have a Samsung Dlp Set. I have comcast cable. I split the wire from the wall. One input goes to the cable in and the other to my HD box from Comcast which is connected with Componant inputs(5 Cables). The HD shows are incredible and cannot be compared. ALthough, my regular channels look much better using the direct cable input rather then going through my cable box?? Why would that be? Whould a HDMI connection help with that? WOuld it be a good moove as I do have HDMI connections on the cable box and TV. Is the tv tuner better then the Comcast tner? Or is the cable box just puting out maybe a digital signal to the lower channels? Help... And any advice would be appreciated. kmd716@verizon.net |
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D Singh Unregistered guest |
Component cables are capable of displaying 1080i. I have a Dish Network HD tuner with a sweet Sony Cineza Projector connected via Component. I get HD channels perfectly, in 1080i. The only thing, however, is that when I switch the HD signal type on the tuner to display 720p to watch ESPN HD, the picture is not a good and is even smaller in actual size in terms of pixel representation. This indicates that either my projector does not upscale or my receiver doesn't upscale or my cables can't handle 720p. The latter is definitely the case as both upscale. Point is, if you want to watch ESPN HD as it should be shown, in 720p, you have to get HDMI or DVI, as I will soon enough. |
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New member Username: KiwijackPost Number: 2 Registered: Sep-05 |
I find it interesting that HDMI is the same as DVI for video output and most of the comments posted were targeted at purely sending video signals to the display. In this case, I really cannot understand why HDMI would replace DVI - myself like almost everyone else is only interested in getting the video signal to the video display. Anyways, I've installed 10 metres (33 feet) of high quality HDMI and Component cable. When the house is finished, I'll post my findings with the equipment used. |
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EndUser Unregistered guest |
Just finished reading all of this...again good discussion. (Lots of questions, few answers) The facts I've gathered so far is that transmission of 1080i signal works across DVI/HDMI and the only advantage to HDMI is that it also allows Hi-Fi Audio through it. This is new stuff, Sony just recently is releasing it's new receiver (7100ES) with HDMI inputs (and montior out). Also it's new line of TV's include two HDMI inputs as well. So this will become the latest way of receiving the highest quality video. For those of you having trouble, well figure it out and move on...perhaps one of your devices has a bug in it. Nothing is full proof and that goes with any electronic device. Don't rush to get the latest all the time, but in time bugs will work themeselves out and DVI/HDMI will prevail it seems. Best of luck to all...my setup includes the following: Sony 60" SXRD TV w/ Cable Card for HD signal Sony 7100ES Receiver 5.1 Surround Polk Audio Speakers Panasonic DVD Player DVD-S97 XBOX 360 Two HDMI cables (DVD to Amp & Amp to TV) One Optical cable (TV to Amp) One DVI/HDMI cable (XBOX to Amp) Three Audio cables (XBOX to Amp for multi-channel) One TV Coax cable (Wall to TV) |
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cz Unregistered guest |
This is a very good article and a great thread, except for the misinformation about component cables being unable to carry 1080i. I have a DirectTV HD TiVO unit connected to a Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY Plasma with good-quality 25' component cables. On top-quality HD content (e.g. Discovery HD nature shows) I can't tell any difference when switching the receiver between 720p and 1080i. In both cases it looks INCREDIBLY good. I believe that HDMI is just a way for the content providers to get people sucked into using a content protection scheme. There are no quality issues with component cables at all. |
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EndUser Unregistered guest |
Component cables do carry 1080i, but in an analog form. In other words, at some point the digital signal has been split out into an analog form. The advantage to HDMI is that the digital signal is transmitted in an uncompressed and true digital form. The disadvantage to HDMI is the restrictions of CPPM (Content Protection for Prerecorded Media) placed on preventing unprotected media to be copied into memory for DVD-Audio. In my opinion this is a small disadvantage for us honest folks that have purchased protected media. So depending on how well your device converts the digital signal to analog, there may be an advantage to using HDMI/DVI. |
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Choi Lee Unregistered guest |
I read the article and it sounds like it has some technical merits in some regards. Digital to digital signal transfers with DVI and HDMI will always require some sort of scaling for rendering images to pixilated display systems that are non-native resolution. However, HDMI was designed specifically to address the highest end of display quality in its purest form of native resolution. For example a Blu-Ray DVD player outputting HD movie content with a 1080i resolution will display an almost perfect highest quality rendition of the original 1080i HD content. Using a component video output for the 1080i native resolution would be completely ludicrous. I have personally witnessed this event as the component signal projects significant signal to noise ratios that show up as pixel crawl, flicker, and blocking. This is very apparent when viewing display sizes of 40-50 inches diagonally. On the other hand, non-native resolution displays all found with 480p DVD players that upscale to 720p or 1080i and output to a 1080i HDTV will have comparable viewing quality differences that are subjective when using either an analog component or digital HDMI/DVI interface. This is due to the fact that the original signal begins with a 480p and is up-scaled to a higher resolution of 720p or 1080i. The quality of signal thereafter is dependant upon the chips sets that are involved in the circuitry. There are many companies involved in this area of video signal processing and varies in what ever type of DVD or HDTV you are purchasing. Many competitive video controllers that are playing into this market include Genesis Microchip, Pixel Works, Trident, Silicon Image, St Micro, Texas Instruments, Sony, Samsung and the list goes on and on. The bottom line here is that the article fails in its attempt for a true comparison of analog component video vs. digital HDMI/DVI. It has made one of the biggest mistakes in technical investigation by using an apples to oranges comparison by simply overlooking some very important technical facts. And that would be the oversight of the fact that digital signal processing and display scaling is a major variable in the equation of the final display quality output. And the fact that the article tries to also compare the cable lengths of analog vs. digital is very much beside the point. Of course digital cables require tighter impedance control measures as they inherently do for most digital cable systems used in todays PC and IT industry. Analog cables are analog cables and are specific to its applications. Analog cables cannot be used for graphics overlays, bi-directional controls, multi-porting, nor networking signals to display systems. They are one dimensional despite its advantage of longer links and low attenuation drop off. In my opinion, the article was a bit sloppy and needs to be re-drafted. |
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New member Username: AamsergieDallas, TX USA Post Number: 1 Registered: May-05 |
HDMI Recievers are useless. What most of you who don't own the 7100es realize is that you can't hook up a HD cable or satellite box to it. This 64 lb pos can only transmit 480i and upconvert it to 576p. I spent over an hour on the phone with the level two tech at sony - all he could tell me was to hook my cable box directly into my TV and just use it for audio. So much for any valuable HDMI connection or upconverting DVD player. Blu-Ray is useless. So is this receiver. If you can't tell, I'm a little pissed..... |
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John Chisholm Unregistered guest |
Dr. Richards - You must be corrected in that HDMI allows both video and audio to pass through. DVI only allows video. This is basically the only difference between HDMI and DVI |
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EndUser Unregistered guest |
Regarding the 7100es doing upconversion to 1080i...from an analog signal you are correct that won't work well. Besides you won't want it to, you will have a negative impact most likely. However, upconversion from component video to hdmi should work. In my case, the upconversion occurs on the DVD player then sends out a 1080i signal through hdmi so the receiver will just pass that through it's hdmi (monitor out) port. Regarding your cable box, use a cable card instead. That's what I'm doing. |
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Unregistered guest |
How do I choose which HDMI cable to purchase. There seams to be little available on the cable and connector specifications. I need a consumer report on HDMI cables. |
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Unregistered guest |
Here is one I have not seen in the forum. I have a Comcast DCT6400 series box, and Sony 51" bigscreen and a Projector. Question is: Can I run a dvi-hdmi connector to my TV, and the component video to my projector. Both connections coming from the DCT6400, and have them both work at the same time. I cureently am running all the video into my onkyo reciever, and pigtailing out (component) 1 to my tv, and the other to my projector. The TV analog stations look very bad, and I assume its becuase I am splitting the signal coming out of the Onkyo. But if I use 2 different cables (hdmi - tv) and component to projector, will the dct6400 output both signals at the same time?????? |
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Alok Sinha Unregistered guest |
Hi, I have a Sony rear-projection TV that has component video input. I am wondering what kind of dvd player I should buy. Is the picture quality of an HDMI-compatible dvd player on component video cable better than a non-HDMI dvd player that supports component video out? Thank you. |
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McDee Unregistered guest |
This was certainly an interesting article on Component vs HDMI but I am still left feeling slightly confused; not about these two standards but about how changing the cable from satellite to TV can have that much effect. Let me explain: Assume I have Sky connected and I run an old Scart cable to my TV. I have a bad picture so I decide to invest in a top of the range Scart cable. But surely the input to the Sky box from the Satellite Dish is still across the old coax cable? Won't that be the limiting factor? Now let's take the argument onto HD. I get a new Sky Box with super expensive HDMI cable. But again, isn't the Sky box connected to my dish with my old cable? I know Sky will improve the bit rate, get better definition etc. but if the old cable can support the HD signal into the Sky box why would I worry about buying an expensive HDMI cable to connect to the TV? Surely a cheapr one will suffice? Am I missing something here? Yours Confused! |
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New member Username: Video101Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05 |
HELLO! HDMI cables not only do video and audio but can carry 10 bit and even up to 12 bit video transmissions. DVI is limited to 8 bit RGB signals. Better/greater transmission means LESS display artifacts! Component connections ALWAYS have poorer display results compared to DVI or HDMI. Do your research.....go Google.... DVD Benchmark secrets......do yourself a favor get a $200 OPPO 1080i player only comes 2nd to a $5K Denon 5910 model....my old Sony 7700 ($1200 new) is going on Ebay! |
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Anonymous |
This is getting so funny, why do so few people got it? HDMI is the upcoming standard *only* because of the copy-protection scheme!!! The main reason is not quality, not cheaper, not better, not simpler, just an INDUSTRY push to make sure people don't make illegal copies... The article and many comments are very interesting btw |
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Anonymous |
and I would like to know what technologies I will be hooking up to my LCD projector three years from now. HDTV, right? So may I at last regard VGA and component as slated for obsolescence? Is it not wise to only buy projectors, at this point, with HDMI, or at least DVI, inputs? |
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New member Username: TyhopkinPost Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05 |
Does HDMI even have a purpose, yet? First off most people with HDTV also own some form of home theater setup (5.1, 6.1, etc.). Since most A/V recievers do not have HDMI switching (or DVI for that matter) you are still stuck with having a seperate audio cable (to reciever) and video cable (to tv). Giving some high end A/V recievers do support HDMI switching. But I am not going to pay $3000 just so I can get rid of a few cables. Just my $.02. |
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New member Username: Yakko_68Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05 |
"Does HDMI even have a purpose, yet? First off most people with HDTV also own some form of home theater setup (5.1, 6.1, etc.). Since most A/V recievers do not have HDMI switching (or DVI for that matter) you are still stuck with having a seperate audio cable (to reciever) and video cable (to tv)." Tyler Hopkins makes a good point. My HD satellite receiver and upconverting DVD player are connected to the two HDMI inputs on my HDTV. I have a coaxial cable going from the TV digital audio out to my A/V receiver and, yes, I can listen to either device through that connection. The audio signal from those HDMI cables is PCM only, however. (This may be a processing limitation of my TV - I don't know) But if I want Dolby Digital or DTS I still have to use the digital audio outputs on the sat receiver and DVD player so I'm using as many cables as ever. |
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New member Username: Tetragon4000Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-05 |
This is a superb post, and explains why the long HDMI cable I bought doesn't work, even though it has very low impedance compared to other HDMI cables. I am going to return it, and get an HDMI -> optical -> HDMI solution. Thank you VERY much for this post! |
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New member Username: D_only_1Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
Great topic, with lots of information. But i still have some concern.. If i buy a tv with only a DVI input, will i be able to see HDMI HDCP protected content on my tv? |
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New member Username: Bryanp2509Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
this is for anom Ymous, if what u say is true why have samsung made a rear projector tv only with component input and has a native screen res of 1080i |
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New member Username: Bryanp2509Post Number: 2 Registered: Nov-05 |
sorry i didnt read on, can anyone point me in the right direction for a dvd player that outputs 1080i through component |
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New member Username: TyhopkinPost Number: 2 Registered: Oct-05 |
I wouldn't bother with a dvd player that upconverts to 1080i or 720p. Just make sure it is at least progressive scan. The HIGHEST QUALITY A DVD CAN BE DISPLAYED AT IS 420p/i, because that is what they are recorded as. Upconverting it isn't going to do much as far as overall picture quality. Could possibly even degrage the picture as it might pick up "noise" in the process. The fewer conversions a signal (video or audio) goes through before you see or hear it the better. A friend of mine has a DLP with a upconverting DVD player and it doesn't look any bit better than my progressive scan dvd player and rear projection HDTV. I give his tv has slightly better color representation but that has to do with it being a DLP and nothing to do with the dvd player. Just my $.02 |
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New member Username: DodgechargerfanPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
"HDMI/DVI versus Component in terms of Upscaling. I have had several debates with so-claimed audio/video experts on the use of HDMI/DVI versus Component and around the subject of upscaling. Most HDTV LCD/Plasma have a native resolution of 720p. Only the newer 45" LCD have a 1080p native resolution. Those TVs will adapt most signals to it's native resolution. So - there are some DVD players that will also do their own up-conversion to 720p or 1080i (Denon, Sony, Samsung.....) and they can only be effective when using a HDMI/DVI cable....so my question is would it be better for your DVD player to up-convert and transfer the digital signal via HDMI/DVI....or would it be better to use component cables to transer the signal to the TV and have it up-convert.......or even yet - would it be better to trasnfer the signal digitally from the DVD player to the TV at 480p and have the TV upconvert it to 720p? The warning for the latter is that some digital TVs will also support 480p meaning no up-conversion will take place......there doesn't seem to be a text-book answer on which is better." My understanding of this issue is that it realy depends on the quality of the circuit doing the up-conversion. I've read statements that say, in effect "transfer it to the TV ans let it's circuitry do the work as they are typically better circuits." That's quite a generalization. I am at a point with my Motorola 6400 cabel box where I am using component video and standard defintion channels look horrible. The cable tech said that was because the box is compressing the analog signals before they leave the unit. My theory then, is that I'll use DVI to bring all of the video info to the TV and let it do the work. However, I'm not clear on whether the standard definition signal will leave the box uncompressed or not and I may end up with the same problem. It's a little diheartening because I had a standard digital cable box hooked up via composite video and the picture was amazing! So, I guess I'm looking at a $100 cable experiment. |
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New member Username: OmegablitzkriegPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
I got an offer on a 51" Toshiba 51HC85 for only $600, the only thing is the TV scales everything up to 1080i but only does 540p. Although it is half of the selling price, I'm not sure if I wanna get a TV thats not up to par. So basically what I'm saying is GIVE ME SOME HELP ASAP. Thanks in advance. |
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New member Username: Samsung56Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
Quick Question. i have a 56" Samsung DLP TV, and it offers the following: 2 Component Inputs 1 HDMI Input 1 DVI Input 1 VGA Input and more inputs i have my set hooked up to my dvd player, my pc, and my digital cable box. i have noticed that the best quality picture for my digital cable and my pc comes from the DVI. obviously i cannot connect them both so i was wondering about using HDMI for my cable box. I have tried using my pc on VGA but it isn't as clear and i can get a higher resolution with DVI. Will i notice a difference in quality going from DVI to HDMI on my cable box. |
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New member Username: ChariPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
I'm having a strange problem, so far i havent seen any one having this issue. I have Phillips 50" Plasma with Ambilight(50PF9630A/37), TV is great and picture is also great. I have connected to my DVD using monster HDMI cables, when i play DVD, after playing for a while, it pauses between scenes by displaying blurr screen, that continues all the way till the end of movie, Irrespective which ever movie you play. I tried with 3 different dvd players which has HDMI outputs. Samsung, Sony and LG, all 3 of them gave the same issue. I dont know whether the issue is with DVD players, Cable or TV. When i play movie using VCR i never encounter the issue, i have HD receiver from Dish, never had any issues with that also. Only problem comes while playing DVD. |
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New member Username: Bill_ePost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
I have a Arcam DV79 and and Arcan FMJ-DV29 both of them have a much clearer picture using HDMI out, but it depends on the display. The DV29 looks more filmlike on component when hooked to my RCA HD2 DLP set, but when hooked to my Dwin Projector the HDMI looks far better than component. The DV79 looks better on both using HDMI. My cable box "brighthouse" looked terrible using it's DVI output on either display. So I really think it just depends on source and display as to which one gives a better picture. Bill E. |
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New member Username: ReamesPost Number: 1 Registered: Nov-05 |
Ok....I am a novice at all of this stuff, but like anyone I have been doing my research. I have a Hitachi HDTV that is about 4 years old and it doesn't have an HDMI hookup. Is there any way for me to get 1080i quality from a DVD player without having the HDMI hookup? My understanding is that I can only use component cables from my DVD player to my TV. Is this true and what is my best solution? |
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New member Username: LaertskyPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 |
I would really appreciate if some one could answer my question.. I have HD-Ready TV with HDMI output and Motorola Cable Box with DVI output. I have two ways to connect them now. 1. Use One Cable with HDMI Connector on one side and DVI on the other. 2. Buy a DVI To HDMI Adapter , connect it to Cable box and Use HMDI to HDMI Cable. I am leaning towards second option , since I will be buying a DVD player with HDMI output ( that way i can use the hdmi cable ) , but I am worried that connection adaptor to cable box and then adding HDMI cable will down grade the signal quality when comparing to just using DVI to HDMI Cable. Can some one give me any suggestions what would be the better way ? |
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New member Username: DjrumpyPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 |
Some of the mis-information here is laughable. One person says it, and another repeats it as fact. This is how misinformation spreads. Do a little research people. Also use a little common sense. If a cable supports 1080i, it is certainly capable of supporting lesser standards within the scope of the video mode standards being discussed here. Namely 1080i/720p/480p/480i. For those of you asking questions like: Will component X, combined with component Y, look good? Answer? Who knows? Quality is COMPLETLEY subjective. One man's nirvana is another mans hell. You CAN ask if something is technically possible (i.e. can I hook up a HDMI to DVI converter and get it to work with my Sony WSBlahblah). I would suggest you post it in it's own thread, rather than this one though. Youre more likely to get a response. Better yet, ask the manufacturer! Stated: HDMI will look better because it's technically better than DVI Fact: For the scope of this discussion, a single link DVI connector being used with 1080i will look just as good as an HDMI connector (assuming the cables are of similar quality and length). Stated: Component cannot work with 1080i, or works poorly, or HDMI/DVI looks better than component Fact: Component is completely compatible with 1080i. Every HDTV set that came out pre-HDMI or even pre DVI supported 1080i via the component inputs. Many HD cable and satellite boxes use component for their HD output. Get that idea out of your head. The sky is not falling. For the typical home user, component is a perfectly usable option for 1080i. Given decent quality component cables, with reasonable lengths typical of a home user, component will look just as good as DVI, or HDMI. Believe it or not, many basic home users can't tell the difference between HDTV and regular TV because they don't know what to look for. Keep that in mind when you say the difference is as clear as black and white. Mix those colors together, and you get 'Joe User', who sees gray ;). Personally, I prefer DVI to component because I do know what to look for, but again QUALITY IS COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. Stated: HDMI is there only for copy protection The facts: DVI already includes support for the High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) specification to deter unauthorized copying of content. It is already here. HDMI is just a more portable format and more convenient due to size and the fact that it includes the audio signal. It should also be cheaper to manufacture than DVI since it is actually a simpler design (I'm talking physical connectors here). The manufacturer gets a little perk from cheaper production costs while charging more since it's a 'new' technology. Stated: HDMI and DVI are exactly the same except for the audio capabilities Fact: Although HDMI is backward compatible with DVI using HDMI to DVI adapters, DVI is not forward compatible with HDMI only features. HDMI allows for more of a two-way discussion between components to allow passing control commands between components. This is something that DVI cannot do. Applications for this could be something as simple as your TV telling your receiver that you switched from TV to DVD. Your TV could then turn on your DVD player, and switch your display to accept input from the DVD hookups while turning off your TV Cable box. Most observed question: Which one should I buy? Answer: I would use the most likely to exist 5 years from now. DVI is in the middle of the move from analog to digital. We're moving away from component. HDMI is moving in. This is obvious when shopping for DVD upscalers for instance. NONE of these DVD players will support Component output up-scaling to 1080i because they cannot support copy protection via the component outputs. I would think short term that DVI is an 'ok' choice HDMI is a good choice since it is already making its way into the electronics market on DVD players, TV's, etc. If you don't want to end up replacing your set in the near future, or miss out on any HDMI only features, then go HDMI. If you think your avoiding some copy protection by sticking with DVI, your fooling yourself, as it already supports copy protection. If in doubt, then google the specs. |
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New member Username: Lectronix06Post Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 |
To A King: The best solution to your problem, as I see it, is to get a dvd player that allows you to choose wheather or not you want the HDMI cable to carry both audio and video. The Panasonic DVD S97S is a good example of an up-converter that gives you the choice. It would allow you to seperate the signals and send them to their respective destinations. Check out the user reviews at CNET.Com. Just search for: Panasonic dvd s97s. Hope this helps |
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New member Username: Lectronix06Post Number: 2 Registered: Dec-05 |
DJ Rumpy: Thank you for your post. It appears that you have done some research and that I can trust the information you have provided. As I'm sure we all should admit, anyone who takes hearsay as fact without doing any research of their own will only remain ignorant and will be at the mercy of others. As factual as you explained things, you have stengthened previous knowledge and provoked future study. Challenge: I have been looking for a good "entry-level" reciever/theater package ($300-$500) and have all but decided on the Onkyo HT-S780. It has a lot more features than anything else that I could find in the price range. And, call me ignorant, it had been pretty highly regarded on CNET. I'd be really interested in how you would review it. |
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New member Username: DjrumpyPost Number: 2 Registered: Dec-05 |
The HT-S780 is a solid entry level system with good power/output. I would consider it a good entry tuner. I would still suggest you check out at least 3 different sites with user reviews specific to your model. Sometimes a particular site may be a bit 'slanted' towards or against a particular piece of hardware or manufacturer. Ignore the lowest and the highest review score on each site, as they are most certainly not valuable. The rest should give you a good indicator of what your looking for ;) |
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New member Username: KchillhPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 |
Challenge: I have been looking for a good "entry-level" reciever/theater package ($300-$500) and have all but decided on the Onkyo HT-S780. It has a lot more features than anything else that I could find in the price range. And, call me ignorant, it had been pretty highly regarded on CNET. I'd be really interested in how you would review it. I have last years model of the 6.1 system...base is good and hard hitting, missing middle range at time, ok highs. Movies are great, center channel a little weak at times, surround is good, I would step up and get the 399-499 reciever and better speakers only to have more control over treble in every speaker to clearly hear, plus that reciever is on screen menu, you can buy what your looking of r at fry's outpost for 399 all day and have cuicit city match it. I would suggest you have CC ship it for free cause its big as heck...good entry level but you'll want more in a year or two. Now is there anyone out there with a Mitsubishi 55 in having the same problem cdietz1377 is having except i moved up to direct tv HDTV (which I must say is great, too bad you only get a few channel, and how do you get local HDTV(ABC<CBS<FOX) without an out door antenna??? here is cdietz1377 and mine problem please help I need help! I recently purchased a Mitsubishi 55" HDTV compatible televsion (model WS-55315). I am running a regular DirectTV receiver and system on the tv using an s-video hook-up. I am not concerned about HD channels. My concern is with the regular channels. I get a strong signal from the dish (85-90) but the picture still appears grainy and blurry, especially during sporting events. I do have a long cable run and have hooked-up a satellite in-line amplifier that is self powered. I have been on the phone with DirectTV many times and can not get an answer as to why the picture is not better. The picture when watching a DVD seems better than the one I am getting from the dish. What else could I try or get to receive a more clear picture. Is the tv just not good and I will have to live with it? It didn't look near this poor in the store or I wouldn't have bought it. The picture on the tv shouldn't be that bad should it? I have tried using rca and s-video cables, several different kinds. The receiver does not have any component of dvi outputs. Is there a problem with the installation? Help! Thanks. |
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New member Username: Lectronix06Post Number: 3 Registered: Dec-05 |
DJ Rumpy and Ken Hall: Thanks for the reviews guys. Will do some more looking. Still highly interested in the S780, though. Definitely ship for free. 100+lbs! -DJ Rumpy, where else should I go to read up? |
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New member Username: DjrumpyPost Number: 3 Registered: Dec-05 |
I always start with google for all research. It gives you a broad range of various sites with reviews. If I'm doing product research, I'm usually more interested in user reviews than official 'site' reviews. You can also search the newsgroups where people tend to post their individual experiences with a product. Afterall, a product may look nice when it's new, but it's the user who still has to deal with it's quirks 2 years later. When in doubt, I always trust the user reviews more than any other source of info. |
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New member Username: DangerWinnipeg, Manitoba Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 |
DJ Doesn't HDMI have different versions and aren't these versions incompatible with each other? As well, won't they be coming out with new versions? The Marantz SR 8500 says it's DVI/HDMI. Is that true HDMI? I purchased a Panny 900 and a Yamaha DVD S657 and need a receiver but I'm getting mixed messages from the salesman regarding the Marantz 8500 and the Yamaha RXV 2600 and the Pioneer Elite 74TXi. Can you help? |
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New member Username: All_wired_upPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 |
I don't believe HDMI will become the future standard because of it's length restrictions. Many new homes are adopting the "A/V closet" where all AV components are located in one spot in the home and distributed from there. Not to mention that front projection is so popular and requires a longer length cable. HDMI may become the standard if, in the end, all audio video is typically distributed over Ethernet and converted at each TV to whatever format. |
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New member Username: JohnmickealPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 |
I have a problem using my Samsung PPM42M5H plasma display with a Motorola HDTV cable digital box, trying to use the DVI input of the TV. The digital box has a HMDI output, so I did plug a HDMI to DVI cable. I can see a high definition picture during a few seconds, then the screen becomes dark. Component video works perfectly, but I'd rather keep it for the DVD. Any idea of what could make HDMI/DVI not compatible between box and display ? I tried a different box and cable, same problem. |
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New member Username: Photo2uPost Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 |
Hello, I have been viewing my Panasonic TH-42PWD8UK Plasma edtv with my regular toshiba dvd. I was thinking in getting a panasonic dvd s77s dvd player with the hdmi outputs and a hdmi card for my tv to take advantage of the hdmi video quality. Being a panasonic edtv will I notice any improvement in quality of the video? Or will this 400.00 purchase a waste of my hard earned buck. Please advice, George from Pasadena |
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New member Username: ElrfromscOrangeburg, Sc Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Dec-05 |
I have an hitachi 50hdt50 plasma hooked to a directv hd10 via hdmi to dvi.pq is great.I've done the component route and can tell you the hdmi cable is by far the best connection.All channels look good .Set display to native resolution for your set.Mine is 720p the 1080i does look good on hd channels but to get best sd signal you must use native resolution of the tv.I hope this clears up the confusion over hdmi vs component.I've also compared cable vs sat.Take sat.any day over cable,no contest! |
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New member Username: ViiofixNew Haven, CT New Haven Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 |
Way too much to read here but I especially appreciated the input by DJ Rumpy. We just bought the Toshiba 72HM195 and after a week of going from DVI > HDMI then to Component, we have decided on HDMI out of DVR. Since the HD Box provided by our Cable Company doesn't support HDMI unless connected to a DVI Converter along with Component Audio, I felt I was losing out and the DVI Converter is 18 Pin as oppossed to 24-1 DVID which still doesn't support Audio. Purchasing Monster quality Component, I noticed the HD quality unnoticeable from DVI-HDMI. My Cable Company offers DVR with HDMI connection for $14.95 monthly and since TiVo was something I was going to look at down the road anyway, I'm getting my cake & eating it. I've configured the set to 1080i 720p and HD looks as good as I have ever seen it. And as was mentioned in another Post, HDMI seems to be the format most suited for future enhancements. I got my HDMI cable from the Cable Company which does have a thinner sheilding than Monster but the cable is exactly the same and was provided free instead of the $120 for 6ft asking price for Monster. Seems like a no brainer to me ... |
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New member Username: Zeiss74Post Number: 1 Registered: Jan-06 |
correct me if i'm wrong, please. comment: i have an HD LCD projector which looks awesome with Component (6' cable). i need to move it to 25' and was going to do 25' M1-D/HDMI ($40), but after reading much of this page, i've decided to stick with 25' Component ($8). the quality is fantastic, the price is cheaper, and there is no risk of sparkles or the cliff. and buying HDMI online makes returns a hassle if it doesn't work. question: is the same analog/digital debate true for LCD computer monitors? is the difference equally as debatable? like the article states, i was raised thinking "digital is automatically way better." i assumed any digital LCD would be a waste of money, even for casual use. (analog VGA vs. analog Component may be a separate argument) |
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New member Username: ViiofixNew Haven, CT New Haven Post Number: 4 Registered: Jan-06 |
CH ~ Read this articel, it may help your decision http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/connect.htm |
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New member Username: Choi_leeSan Jose, CA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 |
I have re-read many post here and find that there are many confused hardware owners regarding picture quality of analog vs. digital, or hdmi, dvi, and component video hook ups and many others problem situations. As an Electrical Engineer working on HDTV design for 9 years, there is so much for me to say on many levels of these subject matters. But I would end up creating a post the size of a novel in the likes of 'War and Peace'. In a nutshell here are some rules that you should know. Print this out for future reference. 1. HDMI is 100% backwards compatible with later versions of HDMI. HDMI ver 1.0, ver 1.1, ver 1.2 are now out in the markets. ver 1.3 will be out in mid 2006. 2. HDMI is only 50% backwards compatible with DVI ver 1.0 (the one and only version made). HDMI ver 1.2 and ver 1.3 will be the only versions that will be 100% backwards compatible with DVI. HDMI ver 1.1 and lower is most likely not backwards compatible with DVI. The symptoms usually is a signal may black out after a few seconds, a picture scroll may occur or a blue screen may stay on. 3. Some earlier DTV and HDTV have DVI inputs in 2003 and 2003 models. HDMI inputs has now taken over in 2005 and 2006 models. 4. Sone earlier set top boxes and dvd players have DVI outputs in 2003 and 2004 models. HDMI outputs has now taken over in 2005 and 2006 models. 5. Some HDMI outputs on dvd players and set top boxes cannot upscale to 1080i. Some cannot upscale to 720p. However, most will be able to upscale to 480p and even 576p. These types usually are lower end dvd players. The ability of the HDMI output to upscale to 1080i depends on the sophistication of the dvd player for instance with the high end DCDi Faroujia motion adaptive de-interlacer and the HDMI discrete 10 bit dac/adc circuits on board. 6. The best choice is to have a digital output from the set top box or dvd player to the digital input on the DTV or HDTV. The problem usually occurs when one has an HDMI and the other a DVI connector. It doesn't matter even if you use an HDMI to DVI cable or converter device, if the versions don't match and are not backward compatible as referenced in points 1 & 2, then you will most likely experience a variety of problems. 7. If at all possible match up a DVI input with a DVI output, and an HDMI input with an HDMI output. This would give you the best chance of full operability. Of course a component video is not compatible with any digital input/output such as DVI nor HDMI. Use it only as the last resort as this is an analog signal that is much lower quality and inferior to any digital signal. 8. Most digtial cable and satelite subscribers complain about the standard or normal channels being of low quality with lots of noise. And they find that the premium or pay channels have the best quality picture. This is because the pay or premium channels are broadcast in a digital mpeg format with a much higher ATSC resolution. And its signal path to your house to the set top box and to your HDTV is mostly all digital. However, the standard or nomal channels are just re-broadcast from their old former NTSC analog formats of lower quality and then digitized. When any old low resolution analog signal is digitized, it make a very accurate copy of the signal along with any of the inherent noise and artifacts imbedded with it. And when it gets to your home into your set top box and to your HDTV through a completely digital path, it does a good job in retaining all of that noise it copied when it was digitized. The digital circuits don't know that it is noise and artifacts. It just knows it must keep the digital data signal integrity like a computer does so it keeps the noise. It never gets filter out in a complete digital path. However to resolve this, you should use a component video cable from the set top box to the HDTV only for standard or normal channels. This is because the analog signal path provides chroma and noise filters that are standard in analog circuits. This helps clean up the noise when the digital signal is converted back to an analog signal in the HDTV component input. Only in this case does the analog component signal appear better then the digital signals of DVI and HDMI. 9. Even when you have a DVI input connected to a DVI output, or an HDMI input connected to an HDMI output and your HDMI versions are backwards compatible with each other you can still have problems. If you cable is too long like 10 meters or more you can have the picture signal fade in and out or have blurring/digital blocking. The optimal cable length is 5 meters of less. The reason why is that some DVI or HDMI chips are not of the same brand and made by different manufacturers. Their eye or window specifications are not always the same and have screwed from the basic designated rules and regulations. This creates a signal syncronization mismatch and the signals may show a variety of problems. Sometimes the DVI or HDMI cable itself may be of poor quality and has created a inferior impedence match. This will also cause bad symptoms. Some HDMI and DVI chips from certain manufacturers are built with a very robust design and will be able to capture signals even with inferior cable quality and even long cables of 25 meter or more. The best case scenario is to own the highest in quality from the HDTV, set top box, dvd player and cables to insure you have optium design built in to your system. 10. When you get a High Definition signal (HD) from a pay channel or premium channel from your HD digital cable or satelite set top box, you may soon be required to have an HDCP encrypted system inorder for you to see the signal on your HDTV or DTV. This means you must have a DVI with HDCP or HDMI with HDCP connection. Now the problem is that some earlier DVI connections do not come with an HDCP encryption scheme with it. These sets will not be able to pick up an encrypted HD signal if your broadcaster decides to activate it. However almost all HDMI connectors have HDCP encryption built into it so it is less likely that you will have a problem with an HDMI to HDMI connection. 11. Another problem issue is that the only way to know if your system has HDCP encryption or know what HDMI version your system has is to find the make and model and request the information from the manufacturer. Another way is to open up the set or box and to find the chipset to get the make and model of the HDMI chip. You can then go on to the web to search for the IC specs of the chip to find the version and HDCP encrption capability. 12. The positive side to all of this digital mayhem is that in the future most all of the newer systems will only have HDMI as a digital connector. And these will all be backwards compatible to all the older systems including DVI and all built with HDCP encryption. All new DTV and HDTV sets today have to be HDMI certified before they hit the market. And there is a compatibility program that insures the HDCP encryption scheme works 100% between all makes and manufacturers HDMI systems. If you buy a new HDTV, set top box and dvd player make sure that they have the 'HDMI' logo certification label as well as the HDCP certification label named 'Panel Link' or 'Simplay HD' on it. This will insure that not only will you be able to get a guaranteed signal but it should be the best signal quality with a most optimal cable length and also have HDCP encryption for all HD signals. 13. If you have an earlier HDTV or DTV set with problems as I mentioned in my many points above, I suggest you contact your sales channel or even the manufacturer and give these guys a piece of your mind. Let them know that as a consumer of durable goods you deserve to be treated better than this and demand a reprive or compensation in the form of discount coupons or purchase vouchers on newer systems to compensate your loss with these transitional yet incompatible HD systems your were duped into buying. I think if enough if the consumers give them a ear full, they will get on the ball next time such a technical transition occurs. Good luck folks, Choi Lee |
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New member Username: BenbakerPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 |
In reply to your article I would have to say that DVI or HDMI are superior to component since panasonic's website states "Up to 2,048 shades of gradation (4,096 shades via HDMI or DVI connection)" Here's the URL to verify http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O &storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=94538&catGroupId=14624&modelNo=TH-42PHD8UK &surfModel=TH-42PHD8UK |
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New member Username: RookerPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 |
Reply to Ben Baker... I'm no expert, but I'm still smart enough to know that your reasoning is flawed...the fact that a particular display states different specs for gradation based on the HD input type does not necessarily mean there is any 'superiority' in the cable type or transfer protocol. You must realize that the different inputs on the TV also go through seperate circuitry internal to the TV! |
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New member Username: Aor_chopchopPost Number: 1 Registered: Feb-06 |
Hope I didn't overlook this as I was reading. Lots of messages. I have a 3 year old Sony 57" HD-READY TV with the DVI-HDTV imput. So far I've been using an old DVD player with progressive scan. Now I'm going to buy a new DVD player and have been told that the new DVD players with upconvert will look the same whether I use the HDMI output or the component output and that either one will look much better than they did on my older DVD player. Is this true? Upconvert players will look better than the progressive scan players even if you use component output and not the HDMI? If it is true, then is my TV going to convert the higher resolution signal back into 480p if I don't use the DVI conector? Chad |
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New member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
Re: Ben Baker & 2048 DVI shades of gradation. 1. Component video, being analog, has continuous gradation (theoretically unlimited, if not for noise, jitter, etc). 2. The Panasonic device your URL pointed to (TH-42PHD8UK) has specific circuitry to enhance the otherwise limited 8-bits (256 gradations) of red, green or blue built into plain DVI. (using a lookup table, for example). 3. This explains the following bit of direct "DVI vs Component" evidence that I've unfortunately found on a display I just purchased. My new Samsung 24" 16:9 lcd monitor has BOTH component video AND DVI inputs and yes, the DVI IS HDCP compliant as forum people are still debating. I connected my Comcast box as a source of HD (1080i by the way) with BOTH sets of cables, i.e the DVI cable and the component cables and could switch between the two via menu. Here is what I found: A. It is impossible to discern any expected loss in detail or sharpness of the component video use compared to the digital DVI use. I was surprised. B. The component video looks WAY better in terms of brightness, or actually, gamma correction. I believe this is because this device does NOT have the 2048 level lookup table to enhance the otherwise too small value of 256 levels inherent in the plain 24-bit DVI signal. As a result there is NO gamma correction and the DVI version looks dark except in the full color highlights. Let's try a little math. Assume a gamma of 2.0 would be required. That means the value of 50% bright should be driven with a voltage 1/4 of full and a value of 10% should be 1/100th of full voltage and 6% is a 277th of full. No problem if we are using real voltages, i.e. analog signals as in component video. The digital values, if they are only 8-bit (24-bit total for R, G, and B), have a major problem. Everything 6% and lower rounds down to zero. A subtle change of say 10% to 11% is lost due to the courseness of only having 256 levels. "Posterization" would occur as the gamma corrected 10% needs a drive of 2.55 out of 255 and a gamma corrected 11% needs a drive of 3.08 out of 255. Both these values round to level 3 out of 255. Conclusion - Even though I bought an awesome monitor that is 1920x1200 on the PC vid DVI and has component video in for currently great HighDef video from my cable box, I will be screwed almost as much as everyone else when Blu-Ray or HD-DVD comes and we need a HDCP compatible DVI or HDMI in order to view the content. My Samsung will work but will not have the proper gamma correction, I fear. I feel it in my bones. |
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New member Username: DdustPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
Questions for the experts of this HDMI & DVI stuffs Using PC with DVI output to play DVD movie in LCD TV, compared with Up-conversion DVD player using HDMI playing the same movie in LCD TV. My LCD HDTV can goes up to 1080i [Both play the same DVD movie in same LCD HDTV] Which product would produce better quality [PC with DVI vs Up-conversion DVD with HDMI] Since HDMI & DVI produce the same quality except audio in DVI output, would the quality be the same? |
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New member Username: JohhnnybeltwayPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
I Have a question about DVI Cables. I bought one which I thought was the 24-pin connector (which was shown in the picture) but I actually got the 18-pin connector one. I have A Sony KF-50WE610 LCD TV which calls for a DVI-D Single Link cable. The question is which connector do I need, or does it even matter? The female connector on my tv has 24 holes so I would Assume it needs the 24 pins. Help! Thanks John |
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New member Username: DdustPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 |
for John Odorisio, the 18 pin is better cuz it carries only digital signal. the 4 pin extra in the middle [24 pins] is for analog signal which also called DVD-I [I for integrated]. the 18pin is DVD-D [D for Digital] In other words, if you are buying a HDTV it is fundametally a digital device like a computer monitor, so it makes sense to keep all signals in native digital format. To my knowledge, 24 pins is usually found in DVI LCD monitor connector or video card. beside 24pins, it has 4 extra pin with a "minus" sign between it. [usually in White color]. All those pins are integrated to carry analog RGB signals Hope this helps. (^_^) |
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New member Username: MlydlePost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
Hey, I have a Panasonic TH-42PD50U EDTV, it seems the composite video handles overall most of the cable channels better than my dvi (cable converter) to HDMI (TV) cable. The digital premium channels and the HDTV channels look about the same with the component and HDMI/DVI cables. Considering the Native Resolution (Number of Pixels) is 852 x 480 on the TV, does it matter if I use HDMI/DVI or composite cables with my Time Warner HD converter? Thanks |
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New member Username: DdustPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 |
i guess no different or maybe a little bit better cuz your TV is EDTV or Enhanced Definition TV . Its not HDTV or HIGH DEFINITION TV. here some samples differences EDTV vs HDTV. http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5137915-1.html |
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New member Username: Tarheel72Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
How does IEEE 394 (firewire) connections enter into this picture? What is the comparison and is it an alternative? If not, why do HDTV sets and STB have the connections? I have read that it is superior to both DVI and HDMI. |
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New member Username: Average_joeSan Jose, CA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
Ive been reading a lot about all the different connection types; which is best and which is worse DVI, HDMI, or component - 1080i vs. 720p vs. 420p, etc. Its all really subjective as it depends on your situation. HDMI is of no use to me as I dont have any inputs or outputs that require either. I use DVI for everything video and use fiber for everything audio. I have a Samsung DVD player with DVI out to my Panasonic HD projector. Im getting a 420p signal, and it looks amazing. I also have a Comcast HD receiver with DVI out to the same projector (have to switch cables now and then) and getting 720p which also looks just as amazing. Dont be concerned with number folks, because thats all they are Just my two cents here, but I dont see why fiber isnt being used instead of all these different types on connections I mean with the ability to go insane distances of 80 meters or more and be able to carry a signal of 30+ GHz, which includes both digital audio and videoit seems ideal. Hmmm maybe someone can enlighten me on where the down-side would be (excluding cost of course which would eventually decrease). For a great insight into the difference between 1080i, 720p, 420p, etc; take a look at this site: http://www.alvyray.com/DigitalTV/Naming_Proposal.htm |
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New member Username: Yyz2112Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
Do a search for the 2004 Samsung DVD-HD841 and the word 'hack' and you will discover that in fact there are upscaling players out there that will easily bypass HDCP and output 1080i over analog component out. This player is also easily made Region Free, all by simply using the remote. $60-$70 on E-bay. http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks.php?select=Samsung+DVD-HD841 There is a reason the AACS is suing Samsung to recall this model. There are other equally capable units out there too but require a bit more sophisticated modification technique such as a firmware 'downgrades'. In my opinion consumer ignorance and contentment to live in big media's walled garden will be the number one reason for the demise of fair use rights and the success of technologies such as VIIV, HDCP, DRM, CPRM etc. etc. Here's an article on the Analog Sunset. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060224-6255.html |
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New member Username: TxmrlevineWoodbridge, VA Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 |
Just bought a Panasonic 900 projector - Throw distance is ~14 ft to a 106 " tab tensioned Elite screen. Video components were attempted connection of 50 ft. First HDMI (signal cut in and out so I figure I fell off that perverbial cliff of length vs. signal quality). Secondly I hooked up Component cables same length. Picture looks horrible w/ pixelation / fuzzy pic etc. Menu is crystal clear so I know it is not focus or anything must be video signal loss. All reviews I have heard about his projector were outstanding so that is why I bought it. What can I do? I was thinking of getting OFC Component cable and move my video sources closer to projecter so I could get a shorter HDMI and Component cables. Any insight would be appreciated. |
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New member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 |
Michael, You need a distribution amplifier, that's all. 1st choice: digital HDMI amplifier: http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/EXT-HDMI-141SB.htm 2nd choice: digital (DVI) http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/gefen-hdtv-repeater-10-2004.html 3rd choice: analog (component video) http://www.cybergiftcenter.com/applications/search/itemdetails.asp?oid=21&sku=CC -AV901COMP&mpn=AV901COMP (Google: component video amplifier) 10' to the amplifier and 40' after it. All about $100-$200. Isn't Google great! Best, Mitch |
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New member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 |
Michael, Even better deal. In the article "HDMI extension..", also on ecoustics, there is a $99 HDMI amplifier which handles 100 feet. http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20extender.htm I think that will be the best video $100 you'll ever spend since your video signal will be digitally perfect. Enjoy! - Mitch |
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New member Username: CaseywsPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 |
I found an article related to this that some may find interesting. It states that HD displays based on LCD, CRT, or Plasma technology are in fact analog technologies, and therefore look identical using either component or digital connections. LCoS and DLP on the other hand are digital based, and will look better using HDMI/DVI (according to this article - I don't know if it's true or not) http://www.cobaltcable.com/pdfs/component_vs_dvi_hdmi.pdf |
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New member Username: BoogottiPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 |
hi, i was wondering about DVI/HDMI. Is this true that only a HDMI input can display 1080p. And DVI input can only dispaly 1080i and not progressive? Can Component input display 1080p? Could i for e.g convert my HDMI output from HDdvd player to DVI to display 1080p? There not much i have found on this subject. Thanks |
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New member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Mar-06 |
CS, That article is good, but the LCD devices its talking about ar TV's only. Not monitors. My Samsung 244t MONITOR is definitely digitally based, and one pays extra so the PC image at 1920x1200 can be perfectly sharp and digitally clear. I won't buy a display that only has lower resolution than the actual number of pixels (a huge plasma screen, yet limited to 1280xx768). And yes, both the DLP and the Sony LCoS devices pass along the full digital resolution throught the interface. Tnx for article. |
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New member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Mar-06 |
Dave, I checked up on this and it appears that DVI and HDCP are equivalent in their bandwidth limitation. That is, digital PC data (only 8-bits per r,g,b component) fits throught DVI or HDMI at 60 hz and 1920x1200 resolution(which is what 1080 is.) For entertainment video, however, which I conclude is higher than 8-bits per component), both DVI and HDMI are limited currently to 1080i. There is no real source of 1080p data for a while, anyway. From www.digitalmediathoughts.com, "Lesson 9: Not all 1080p displays actually accept 1080p signals. This was a bit of a shock. While, the LVM-37W1 accepts and properly displays 1080p signals through the VGA and DVI1 ports (and 1080i through the DVI2 and component inputs) some other 1080 displays on the market, however, do not accept 1080p signals at all. Some, like the Sharp 45 can be hacked to get it to accept 1080p PC inputs while others limit PC inputs to 1280 resolution. To complicate matters, I have seen reputable reports that the current HDMI spec, 1.1, does not support 1080p at all because of a channel bandwidth limit of 165MHz and that it wont be until late 06 that the new HDMI 1.03 allows 225MHz channel bandwidth and 1080p support. This is, of course, puzzling because DVI is also limited to 165MHz channels and PC displays (and the LVM-37WI) have no problem displaying 1920 by 1080p/60Hz content today, using DVI. The best I could figure out is that the DVI spec is adequate for 8-bit per channel color at 1080p/60 but that some (most?) of the HDMI chipsets in use today are limited to 150MHz channel width." |
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New member Username: BoogottiPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 |
i have a dell 2405 (24 inch widescreen lcd pc monitor) just wondering if that it could display 1080p? the inputs it has are dvi,vga,HDCP but no HDMI. When i play a HD quicktime flie it says its 1080p. (Played the mission in possible 3 trailer. Is this true that its displaying @ 1080p?) |
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New member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 7 Registered: Mar-06 |
Sorry, Dave. That monitor does NOT support the HDCP protection protocol. I was going to get that monitor but at the last minute switched to the very similar and also well reviewed Samsung 244T, which DOES have HDCP support. For my HD sat box, which is set to 1080i, I use the component vid inputs, which the 2405 also has. It should look equally breathtaking, espicially INHD2's 1080i programs. Hope this helps. |
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New member Username: Tvtech3Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
hdmi is much much better picture than componet hookup hdmi cables are avail at a store like sams called bj,s and they are general electric hdmi cables and the cost for them is $24.95 or $4 more if yur not a member their is absolutly no difference tween the picture on them and the ones that cost $250 |
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New member Username: Witsend2006Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
I have a Samsung HDTV DLP that has only 1 DVI connection. Is there any way to connect 2 DVI components to the 1 DVI connection? |
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New member Username: Tvtech3Post Number: 2 Registered: May-06 |
nope not possible |
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New member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 9 Registered: Mar-06 |
Yes, possible. Just get a DVI switch box. Most are about $90. Some with a IR remote you probably don't need are $300. I got one just fine for < 40 bucks. It's at: http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=DVIAB%2D1&off=12&sort=prod Just google "dvi switch" or use froogle and sort by cost. glad to help. Good luck! |
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New member Username: DiukilPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
HDMI to COMPONENT? I have an old Panasonic HDTV that has the Component inputs only, I do not have DVI or HDMI. My question is if its possible to conect a HDMI DVD player to the component input of my tv. The reason why I want to know is because I wouldlike to buy one of those new DVD players that raise the video resolution to 720 and 1080. I asked the sales people at the store but no one seems to know. |
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New member Username: Sharp22Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
I recently bought a Epson 76c Projecter and have been searching for hours on end trying to figure out what I need to do to achieve HD through my HDMI output on my new Toshiba DVD player. The projecter claims to support HD, but the problems are in the cables. The only way to hook it up is to adapt it to a VGA input. I have it setup like this DVD->(HDMI-DVI)(DVI-VGA)(VGA)<-Projecter and the projector displays nothing and says no signal. Is this connection supposed to work or no? Is this scenario even possible to accomplish? I'm getting discouraged and any input would help. Thanks for reading. -Nate |
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New member Username: Mattman1623Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
I heard that there is some kind of hdcp copyright agreement that may downgrade hd signals over component cables. Is this true and will it affect digital cable hd signals? Will hdmi/dvi cables protect against this? http://www.drmblog.com/index.php?/archives/80_DTV_+_HDTV_+_HDMI_+_HDCP_+_DVI__BA D_DRM.html this link is where i received this information |
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New member Username: CaseywsPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 |
Hi Matt, I'm not an expert on the issue, but I do know that HDCP isn't something that is currently being widely used, so if you're using component cables with your HDTV, it's not limiting your ability to display in high definition. However, if your HDTV does not have an HDMI or DVI input on the back of it, you might get screwed by HDCP at some point in the future - especially if you plan on purchasing a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player, as those will probably be the first products to fully utilize HDCP. |
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New member Username: Vij_kum_ragPost Number: 1 Registered: May-06 |
Hi, I didn't see any response to this posting, http://forum.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/board-profile.pl?action=view_profile&prof ile=ddust-users I am in process of connecting a Sony VAIO RC110G(Windows media center) with a DVI-D interface to VPLS-H51 projector with HDMI interface. I brought a 30 feet cable HDMI to DVI. This cabling will be permanent inside the wall cable and I want to get this right. Following are my primary goals: - Watch DVD movies using DVD driver on Sony media center PC and with DVI-HDMI output to projector. - Watch VoD programes from internet using DVI-HDMI output. - Using the Dish reciever to connect to my PC and then use TV-Tuner to watch the channels using the projector and DVI-HDMI interface. Any caveats and performance issues with these? Thanks in advance and appreciate all the help provided. |
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New member Username: DiukilPost Number: 2 Registered: May-06 |
Ok so far to what I hear no one makes an adapter to conect hdmi to component and some people have told me that it is not possible, If this is correct I will be extremely pissed off, you mean to tell me that I spend 2 grand on my TV and I am not going to be able to watch HDDVD on my TV. Thats freaking BS, I hope that this is not true and that someone makes an adapter for this type of conection. This discourages me even more not to bother buying Blu Ray or HDDVD because for all I know they will probably change the HDMI to another format and then they will screw you again. Is just like DVD movies they keep coming out with new especial editions of the same movie every 5 months, they just keep robbing the public. Thats why most of my friends don't even buy movies anymore they just watch movies on cable or satelite.. Anyways I hope someone helps us component people on this matter |
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New member Username: Tarheel72Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 |
I don't know if there is a cable that will let you do this or not. the problem is component is analog and HDMI or DVI are digital. I see no reason why you can not view HD DVD or Blue Ray on any HDTV using component cable. You may get a better picture with a pure digital connection, but you will still get a fantastic picture with component. YOu can watch it in the native resolution of your TV, 720p, 1080i or 1080p. If I am missing something here, someone chime in. |
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New member Username: DiukilPost Number: 3 Registered: May-06 |
I would think that there would be no problem converting HDMI to component,"like i said earlier in my previous post I have a TV that only has component no HDMI or DVI I have Comcast digital cable and watch high def shows and movies, so i know that the TV is capable of showing high def I really can't see much of a difference beetween Digital and Analog, Ive heard that the difference is not much. The real reason why they are pushing HMDI and DVI is because of copyprotecting their movies and such" .but everyone seems to have tried doing it with adapers but has not been succesful, at least to what I have heard. still looking for an answer |
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New member Username: Tarheel72Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 |
well, like I said, I am not aware of a DVI to componenet adaptor. I have Comcast too and use a DVI to HDMI cable. before that I used the component cables, as my TV had no digital video interface. Maybe someone makes an adaptor, but I don't know of one. Regardless, that should not prevent you from viewing HD DVD on your TV via component just as you were viewing Comcast HD. |
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New member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 10 Registered: Mar-06 |
Eddie & friends, There is and will be no hdmi to component adapters. It would get around the HDCP copy protection, permitting unlimited perfect copying. My suggestion, and one that I am about to follow: Get a state-of-the-art UPSCALING dvd player. They convert DVD (not blueray or hd - that will require a new player) to beautiful 1080i HD with both HDMI/DVD and, most importantly, Component video outputs. The reviewers are literally going gaga over these things. One of the best: http://www.neodigits.com/new/body/products/HVD2085/specs.asp or Oppo OPDV971H or Samsung DVD-HD931 I know..we shouldn't have to buy another DVD player, but look at it this way. We already bought the hard and expensive part - the display. Now some new and relatively cheap technology makes all regular DVDs look awesome on it - let's pay the piper a one time charge and start enjoying our stuff to the max. This game isn't called "bleeding edge" for nothing! |
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New member Username: DiukilPost Number: 4 Registered: May-06 |
YEs Finally the answer, I am ordering one today. Thank you very very much. I read the specs and this one delivers koolness. 1080i/p thru component inputs |
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New member Username: Tarheel72Post Number: 4 Registered: Mar-06 |
I suggest you also consider the Samsung HD960, which upconverts to 1080p via component and is only $179 MSRP. YOu can get it online for as little as $160. It uses DCDi by Faroudja for de-interlacing and the next generation Zoran Vadis 886 decoder, a version of the 888 decoder. The 888 is used in the HD1080. The difference in the two models is the 1080 can play DVD-A disc. Of course neither is HD, but I agree that the difference is pretty close and who knows what format will win the HD DVD war? |
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New member Username: DiukilPost Number: 5 Registered: May-06 |
Thanks for the sugestion,but the Neo Digits is more on my alley since I have alot import DVD's, regionless is a must for me. |
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New member Username: AttwellPost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 |
too many choices .. equipment: 1) 50" Panasoinc HDTV plasma with HDMI input (among others) 2) Denon 2807 receiver with HDMI ouput (among others), HDMI digital video switching (2 in, 1 out),analog-to-HDMI video conversion, video switching: 3 in, 2 out (100MHz bandwidth) component video conversion (composite to S-video, or composite and S-video to component) digital inputs: 5 optical, 2 coaxial 2 optical digital outputs 3 audio (including phono) and 7 audio/video (including 7 S-video) inputs -- sorry for the long list but not sure what is relelvant 3) Comcast HD cable box How do I interconnect? should I take the cable signal through the receiver and then to the TV? If yes, which cables to use? Or should I go straight from cable box to TV? If I bypass the receiver with the cable video signal, how do I hook up the audio portion? AV salesman said not to use HDMI as the technology was inconsistent still. thanks! |
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New member Username: Bill_melaterChicago, IL Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 |
I recently bouught a Panasonic 50” Plasma, Model 50PHD8UK monitor and I'm interested in the 1080p capability. I connect it to my Comcast HD-DVR with component cables. I know it is hdmi-ready, so I will buy the card, if, the comcast dvr will provide and support 1080p. Anyone doing this? |
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Bronze Member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 11 Registered: Mar-06 |
The Comcast dual tuner HD-DVR does not produce any 1080p. There isn't even any content being produced. I think 1080i looks totally awesome, though. You mentioned "the card". Which card for which device are you talking about, anyway? I found that the DVI out of the Comcast box had the wrong "gamma", that is it looked dark and contrasty compared with the way I could tweak it via component video. |
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New member Username: MchiefAlexandria, VA United States Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 |
I am a little confused. Seen this question a dozen times and may have missed the answer. My cable box has DVI_D and my HDTV will have HDMI when it arrives. I understant that DVI is video only - how do I hook up audio to the HDMI input?? |
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Bronze Member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 12 Registered: Mar-06 |
Your cable box also has audio out in the form of probably all 3 of: a pair of RCA jacks (stereo - 2 channel only), coaxial audio out (for an A/V receiver), or optical audio out (for newest A/V receivers). If you're not using an AV receiver (w/ 5 speakers, etc...), the HDTV should have one or more of those audio in connections. Just buy a separate cable for audio to go along with your DVI to HDMI cable. |
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New member Username: DarndviStdney, Nsw Australia Post Number: 1 Registered: Aug-06 |
hey im the opposite to morris does it work the other way. i have a hd plasma with a dvi-d input that i want to use. but i cant find any dvd recorders with dvi-d output so im thinking of buying one with hdmi. Is this a good idea? will it work? cause also after reading this forum i am thinking maybe i should not buy any dvd recorders with hdmi or dvi because of cppm. but im not very techy and not sure if i undersood exactly what cppm involves. |
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New member Username: TechchefAlexandria, VA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Sep-06 |
After reading through this entire thread I've found a lot of irrelevant posts concerning cable lengths, security features, future devices, and moot points in reference to the actual question at hand; which is better, component or HDMI. Some of the real educated posts break down the science behind component and hdmi, but only serve to further confuse those who aren't looking to the technological babble, but more so answers to the question... which is better? The right answer to the question is HDMI. The best answer to the question is, that it's dependant on your equipment and your eye. The technical differences between the two aren't so cut and dry. However, everyone can do their own research and come up with their own conclusions, but as stated in previous posts, the length, and quality of the two cables is the biggest technical issue. The bottom line: HDMI is better than Component, reason being, HDMI carries more information or data which means simply, your HD TV will display a greater picture being that there is more information to display, its designed for High Definition, and it eliminates the use of additional audio cables. The picture quality is crisp and clear a noticeable difference over Component which is clear itself, but unable to reproduce the digital quality of HDMI. Yes with Component, you can stretch your HD set anywhere from 2-20 feet away, but the real question is who actually does that? most people have their Home Theater system or HD Box no more than 3-5 feet away. The limitations of HDMI are that of the cable length... but if you are like me, your HD/HDMI source is close to your HD/HDMI TV. In conclusion, if you have HDMI capability..USE IT! Its better than Component, and SVIDEO. If your HD source is 8+ feet away from your HDTV you might want to use Component as the HDMI cable has been known to loose some quality. I purchased my HDMI cable today..(Monster Ultra800 24k gold plated 4') my fianc` noticed the difference RIGHT AWAY!!, I noticed the fact my resolution went from 480p (component) to 1080i (HDMI). My girl is far from a tech junky like me, but believe me, if she was surprised by the difference...I KNOW FOR A FACT HDMI IS BETTER!!!! |
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New member Username: TechchefAlexandria, VA USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Sep-06 |
Ohh yea and before I go, to that user whom claims the human eye can only see three colors???!!!! you're seriously mistaken... The human eye can see roughly 7 million different colors.. with a combined resolution of around 375 megapixel |
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New member Username: PonycarPost Number: 1 Registered: Oct-06 |
RYISHEED: You probably overpaid for your HDMI cable. Brand Name isn't very important in a digital cable as long as it's deacently made. I recently bought a 30ft DVI to HDMI cable for $18 shipped on ebay. It's to hook my computer up to my 50" Panasonic plasma (which has both VGA and HDMI inputs) through my Yamaha reciever (I just wish there were more DVI "in's" on my receiver!). This helps explain why some people here are interested in performance over long distances...gaming. Whether XBOX 360 or PC (like mine). The gaming unit is often more than a few feet away from the TV or receiver. |
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New member Username: RonswongerSaline, MI USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
I have an NEC 61MP1 plasma MONITOR and a Motorola DCT5100 cable box. The Monitor accepts component video HDTV signals but not DVI or HDMI. The cable box puts out both DVI and component video HDTV. I see "DVI to component video converter cables" on the market. Am I likely to get better image quality connecting from the DVI output of the cable box to the component video input of the monitor using such a cable than I now get with a component-video-output-to-component-video-input cable? |
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New member Username: Tarheel72Post Number: 5 Registered: Mar-06 |
I don't think you will see any improvement. you are converting the DVI signal to get it across the component cable, so essentially it arrives as component anyway. You may actually lose a little in the conversion. You could pick one up and do a comparison, but I doubt you will see any improvement over straight component. |
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New member Username: Mrreed1Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-06 |
There seems to be a great deal of confusion over component vs. composite video cable. They look similar but only component will do the HDTV signal as will the DVI or HDMI. Composite video cable will only do 480p max. Look at http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/componentvideocable.htm for more information. I use component (not composite) video able for all my "HD" devices; HDTV, DVD player, XBox 360. The image quality is absolutely beautiful and high definition. |
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New member Username: MhohlPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 |
Not that this has anything to do with which has a better signal, but using HDMI for all your connections(HD Cable Box, DVD, Receiver, HDTV) sure creates a whole lot less confusion and cables behind your TV. As long as your reciever has up-conversion that is. Having only 3 cables sure is great. Receiver to TV. DVD & Cable Box to reciever. That's it! |
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New member Username: Philly_tPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 |
Following an interesting article, there's a lot of info here, some very useful, some not so useful. A lot has been said about the video signal, considerably less about the audio signal. I'd like to focus on the specific feature that sets HDMI apart from other connections: its capability to carry both a digital video and a digital audio signal in a single cable. Wouldn't the HDMI option be the definite option of choice only if its defining advantage can be fully exploited? It seems to me that it's still dificult to transmit the digital audio signal through an HDMI connection because most AV receivers still have limited HDMI capabilities, their HDMI ins/outs mainly serve a pass-through function instead of actively processing/converting the digital audio signal. This is also where I need some clarification...can anyone please shed some light on AV receivers' capabilities of processing/converting/switching the digital audio signal through HDMI? If I wanted to run everything (video and audio) through HDMI, what technical specifications would my AV receiver have to have in particular? I believe Matt Hohl may have answered this in his post already, but described a little bit more elaborately, how would you connect the system's different components, i.e. digital TV satellite/cable box, DVD-player, AV receiver, LCD HDTV? Am I correct in the following hook ups: digital TV satellite/cable box and DVD-player hook up to AV receiver's two (separate) HDMI inputs using two HDMI cables, then the AV receiver's HDMI output is connected to LCD HDTV's HDMI input using another HDMI cable, for a total of three HDMI cables to hook up the entire system (not considering the speaker cables of course). Thanks for your thoughts. |
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New member Username: MhohlPost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-07 |
That is correct on the hook ups for just 3 HDMI cables(not including the speaker cables). Just a little food for thought, the Sony STR-DG1000 is a great middle of the line receiver that can handle the connections and up conversions. |
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New member Username: InnomindPost Number: 1 Registered: Jan-07 |
Hello everyone, Is there a video card with HDMI output to connect to Optoma HD81 projector? Also, we would need to somehow connect that HDMI cable to a HDMI compatible sound amplifier connected to surround sound speakers around the room. Can anyone reccomend a good setp here? Thanks |
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New member Username: NorthernflamePost Number: 2 Registered: Jan-07 |
One point that has been avoided with the dvi/hdmi/component/composite/RF coax debate. While and if you have dvi or hdmi output from your dvd player or sat/cable tv. The analogue signal formats or composite/component/RF coax have major differences. Analogue signals are ex 3 dimensional and have enoumous amounts of information when compared to the 2 dimensional digital world of converted clean 0110101. If any one has ever attempted Analogue to digital video capture (even in the old days dvd format) you'll remember the very large amount of computer power and highend capture card required to do so. Our new sony gran wega has an incredibly slow ADC which no matter how good your dvd player is in composite or component the tv's ADC just can't handle so much analogue info and skips parts, then tries to interpolate and you end up with scan lines, artifacts, grainyness, fuzzyness e.t.c. I litteraly get a headache from watching the tv from any closer than 8 feet way. Now you can daisy chain your dvd player through a good vcr (composite) with will use it's own amplifier, noise reduction , and provide a small buffer which helps the tv adapt. While those analogue to hdmi upconverters are nice They have but one input, no audio out for people with custom stereo systems, again here come the splitters. For 250$ usd it's not worth it. The converters are at least 4-5X more expensive than the electronic components and manufacturing costs are worth combined. Enjoy. |
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New member Username: SlysullyPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-07 |
DVI to HDMI Cord Vs. Component Cord My Receiver has a DVI, and my TV has a HDMI... Is my best bet getting a DVI-HDMI Cord? Or just stick with a component? Any input is appreciated. s. |
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Bronze Member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 13 Registered: Mar-06 |
Generally digital connections are preferred over analog since they are noise free. That would mean the DVI-HDMI cable is what you should use. There are certain devices, though, that permit better brightness/contrast/gamma adjustment in the analog path, which would be the component inputs. My "Comcast box to Samsung 244 23" monitor" is just such a situation so there I much prefer the component video (3 rca cables) instead of DVI. Coming from my computer there is also an analog/digital choice and its DVI vs VGA connectors. There I ALWAYS insist on DVI - it keeps even the smallest text PERFECTLY crisp. DVI is always better than VGA. For component video, as explained above, either one could be the better choice. Bottom line - Try both. It costs you one extra cable, but you have peace of mind knowing you're looking at the best your particular combination of equipment can provide. |
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New member Username: Scoot55Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-07 |
After reading all these posts my head is spinning. I'm patiently waiting till Xmas & will purchase a new A/V receiver & a Plasma or LCD TV then. The reason why is that HDMI ver. 2.0 will be out by then and is suppose to have a major benefits over HDMI v1.0 or v1.1 or v1.3 unfortunately I realize that my purchase will be old news shortly after I buy it so the only thing that should count to all of you out there is if you are happy with what you have or do you have to have the latest bells and whistles. Go here and click on faq on right side of page http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/technology.asp |
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New member Username: TeroPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-07 |
Sorry if I maybe writing a stupid question. I have an HDMI Plasma tv. If I buy dvd player which has an hdmi socket, would that improve my picture from my actual dvd player that is connected through component cables? Thank you |
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New member Username: Ssa915Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-07 |
ANthero - I would also like to know the answer to this as I am considering which option to chose: (I do not have an HDMI input in my plasma tv (Panasonic TH-42PH9UK), I just have BNC (but i do have adapters to switch the component to BNC): (1) progressive scan only + component cables, OR (2) hdmi up-converted + component cables And which DVD player model # is best? I dont watch much TV so i Dont have cable, just a DVD player. |
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New member Username: MaseratimikePost Number: 1 Registered: May-07 |
I was wondering what a refresh rate is (I kind of have an idea), and if it only applies to LCD, Plasma, and DLP. Does it apply to a tube TV? I have a HD 30 inch widescreen Philips from February '04, and it has 2 HD component inputs. The only HD output source I have is my Xbox 360, and I have the HDDVD add-on. Everything looks great: games, HD-DVD's, downloaded HD movies/tv episodes/trailers from the Xbox Live Marketplace. But whenever there's a 'still' image on screen, there's shaky almost wave-like lines in the middle of the screen. It happens when 1.--I'm on the Dashboard (main menu) of the 360, 2.--whenever I look at a slideshow of JPEG's from a flash drive, 3.--when there's still images from opening screens from HD-DVD's, such as the red warning screen, FBI warnig screen, etc. It sometimes happens during the three different types of HD videos I watch, but not a whole lot, but it's still annoying...about a 3.5 on a scale of 1-10. So, I assume it's the TV, and not my 360, cause I've had my 360 hooked up to other HDTV's via component. I thought maybe the cause of these lines is from a low or lack of refresh rate. If anyone knows, it'd be much appreciated. Also, here's Amazon.com's overview of my HDTV. Thanks a lot! |
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New member Username: MullaiPost Number: 1 Registered: May-07 |
Hi Does anyone know what is meant by Consumer electronics control in HDMI? What are the merits of this feature? |
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New member Username: Malli_1729Chennai India Post Number: 1 Registered: Sep-07 |
Iam new to this topic.. iam now only learning,,iam working with dsp processors and iam doing video processing......... my doubt is: Actually in the Analog component video we wil be having having R,G,B analog signals.......ok.... if i want to connect the dvd output to the tv how can i get the sync signals) like horizontal sync and vertical sync................because ,R,B,G will give only color info tv requires sync also................ how i can get the sync info with only 3 connectors........ |
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New member Username: Curly56Post Number: 1 Registered: Sep-07 |
hey, it would be great if anyone could help me with my situation, it might pale in comparisson to some of these questions but here goes: i own a ps3 and an optoma dlp movie time projector. the porjector specifies that it can project in 1080p and is capable of broadcasting HDTV... yet there are no HDMI or DVI inputs, only VGA and RGB... if i were to connect a hdmi - dvi cable to a dvi-vga adapter would my result still be in HD? if not, how do you think i might rectify the problem?? thank you very much to anyone who can help |
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Bronze Member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 14 Registered: Mar-06 |
Hi, I hate when that stuff appears to happen. Anyway, I assume your projector is the Optoma DV11. The manual for it says it can handle HDTV 1080i. It appears that you must input it through the component video inputs, which it DOES have! 1. You need to use the little VGA-RCA triplet adapter that comes with it, and put it on the VGA input connector. 2. You need to get a DVI-component adapter ($20) http://sewelldirect.com/dvivideoadapter.asp or similar. 3. THEN you can use 3 simple RCA-RCA cables to connect your ps3-->DVIComponentAdapter-->3 cables-->RCAtoVGA connector --> movie time projector. I think this is your best bet since you are not really going through "vga". It is just that Optoma uses the vga CONNECTOR to double as the component video input connector. Hope this helps! Cheers! Techylah |
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New member Username: Curly56Post Number: 2 Registered: Sep-07 |
i actualy have the dv10 but the inputs are the same on both projectors so i will definately give this a go, thanks very much for your help! cormac |
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New member Username: Fmarti01Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-07 |
I have a sharp LC-45GD7U that was purchased over a year ago. Does anyone know why I cannot display a 1080p signal from my Xbox360 via the component cable connection? The Halo3 game claims to be in 1080p [only reason why i bought it]. The TV calims to be 1080p capable. Do I need to buy the new Xbox360 Elite console that has the HDMI output? Or do I go out and buy a new TV that can handle 1080p on it's component input[s]? Seems nuts either way. Please help. |
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New member Username: MulphaCalgary, Alberta Canada Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-07 |
I have a NAD T743 (LOVE it!) with component pass thru. Just bought a PS3. Likely going to buy the Panasonic PT-AX200U projector. I'd like to use component signal but not sure about 1080p/24. PS3 manual says it won't pass 1080p except thru HDMI. Projector has HDMI but I'd rather use the NAD for all control. Any feedback appreciated as I'd like to buy a projector soon... thx! |
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New member Username: Ihatewidowsvista2007Largo, Florida Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-07 |
So lets get back to the question of which is better. Which one is it going to be. Could we do a vote, component or hdmi, dvi, I want to know from all the people out there your flat out 2 sentence long version of why you think either one should win. And hurry I got a Samsung HLT-5687s with LED light engine, Just burning a hole in my brain and soon my pocket book. I want to know because my cable company is an idiot and doesnt know why my tv will not play from the HDMI cable output on my box. Lets get it over with once and for all so I can get on with my limited selection of HD material. OH AND IF ANYBODY KNOWS WHO ACTUALLY WROTE THE PROGRAM FOR WINDOWS VISTA. LET ME KNOW I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A WORD WITH HIM/HER!! My screen keeps minimizing and maximizing at the touch of any random button for no reason. VOTE COMPONENT!!!!!!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: TechylahBoston, MA USA Post Number: 15 Registered: Mar-06 |
Hi Jeff, Ok, here's my take and experience. 1. Go component video - explanation to follow. 2. Your TV is probably DVI without HDCP (copy protection scheme) capability. Google it, understand and weep. Sat. boxes just turn off if no HDCP dialogue happens. 3. Current (your) HDMI is version 1.2 which limits information to 8-bit or 256 levels per color channel. 10 or more bits is needed and HDMI ver 1.3 fixes this. Component video does not have this limitation. It's analog but very robust, i.e. no one says they can distinguish it from digital. It's a theoretical advantage overshadowed by the 8-bit limitation. MY Samsung 244T HAS HDCP for its DVI but I still only use the dvi for computer input, NOT video of any sort. With only 8-bits the gamma balance looks off, or the detail in the shadows goes away, depending on how you adjust things. Therefore, GO COMPONENT for sure! You'll love it. Mitch |
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New member Username: Jdog22Post Number: 1 Registered: Nov-07 |
I second Mitch. I also think more people just need to start trying things over and over until they can really see what is going on. I have swithced between DVI and Component on multiple TV's, Dvd's, Cable box's etc. over the last few years. Trying each for a week at a time and then switching. Then repeat. It has been consistant on all my hadware that component looks best. Color, lighting, artifacts.. My digital cables are now in the garage. |
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New member Username: Tarheel72Post Number: 6 Registered: Mar-06 |
While I do not disagree with what has been said, there are some other aspecs to take into consideration. For one, some displays will not take 1080p over component, only over a digital interface. Second, some devices will not transmit 1080p over analog connections, because of copy protection. For instance, the xBox 360 HD-DVD add on will not transmit 1080p movies over component connections, only VGA or HDMI, and I think you will find that many stand alone DVD players have this limitation also. And most AVR are going to HDMI switching and no longer provide component switching, so if you favor that method you will probably want to start down the HDMI path. Just my 2 cents worth. |
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New member Username: Tarheel72Post Number: 7 Registered: Mar-06 |
Franklin, the answer to your question is probably that the TV will not accept 1080p over component. The xBox 360 will send games at 108p over component, so that is the only logical explination why you can not view at that resolution on your display. Your only optiions in that case are upgrade to the elite or get a new display. |
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