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Thread: Are 7.1 receivers backwards compatible with 6.1 speaker setup? |
    
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 01:22 pm: |
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I've tried to look for this info online but could not find anything, I emailed onkyo tech support on one of their 7.1 receivers and got no reply.
I already have a 6.1 speaker setup and want to upgrade to a nicer receiver with hdmi but the decent ones are all 7.1 vs 6.1
Would i be able to continue using my 6.1 speaker set does anyone know? |
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Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 50
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 01:46 pm: |
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Yes. You would just tell the receiver to turn off one of the rear surround sound speakers. |
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 2
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 01:53 pm: |
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But most of the 7.1 receivers do not have the rear center channel that the 6.1 uses, where to connect it to? |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 51
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:06 pm: |
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In that case you would just connect the rear surround to the one you did not turn off. I would use the right. It will work fine. The receiver's processor should now that it does not have two speakers to work with and sound mono output to that channel. The ability to Set one of the channels to off exists for this purpose. |
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 3
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:09 pm: |
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Thanks for the info, do all the 7.1 receivers allow disabling of the left rear surround channel? |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 52
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:14 pm: |
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That is impossible for me to know but they should. What kind are you interested in? |
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 4
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:18 pm: |
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the onkyo 705 and 805 receivers or the sony 7.1s |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 53
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:24 pm: |
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I know for sure that the Onkyo does. Just go to the Sony web site and download the manual according to its model number. The manual will say if it has the setting. It probably does. |
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 5
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:27 pm: |
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will do! thanks |
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Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 54
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:29 pm: |
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Are you planning to have a blu-ray disc player? |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 362
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:48 pm: |
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jeff Im trying to make sence of what your saying about the speakers, shouldnt ted just make a 5.1 speaker configuration like everybody else, and ted if your looking at $1000 recievers you can do better than onkyo, and what speakers do you have |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 56
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 03:58 pm: |
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I am not sure what you are asking Angelo. No he should not as he has 6.1. If he had 5.1 he would turn off both rear surrounds. Setting it for 5.1 would just be a waste of a speaker and he probably already has them installed in the room.... Really not sure what you are asking. Do you know what 5.1 and 6.1 means? |
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 6
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 05:03 pm: |
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I currently have a Pioneer 6.1 receiver. I wanted to get a sony bluray player thus wanting to upgrade my receiver. I already have 2 monster 3channel amps so i am stuck with a 6.1 speaker setup for now. I would like to get a 6.1 receiver with preouts since I do not need to use the receiver's amplifier.
I am using the eleganza 3600 speakers, 6 of them
FL FC FR
RL RC RR
and a standalone sub that is self powered into the wall. |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 59
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 05:09 pm: |
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Get a sharp blu-ray disc player with the TrueHD decoder in the player and avoid buying a new receiver at all. The sharp blu-ray players are $500.00. Cheaper than buying a new receiver. Again the decoder is in the blu-ray player so you can use them with any receiver be 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 and the receiver does not need to have the TrueHD decoder. |
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 7
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 05:14 pm: |
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Well the reason for the upgrade was I wanted hdmi ports which i do not have now. And I want to get a new HD TV in the near future. Right now it is inconvenient not having hdmi ports when i try to connect the PS3 and have to resort to using optical out cables etc. vs just 1 hdmi. I have quiet a bit of things connected to the receiver and the bottlekneck seems to be no hdmi these days. |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 60
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 05:17 pm: |
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If you are getting a new HD TV in the near future it will have enough hdmi inputs so apply the money you save on the receiver to the cost of the TV. Just requires a little patients and a lot less money  |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 61
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 05:25 pm: |
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You really should not be making any major investments in you current setup anyway if you are planning to change it soon. There is no telling what you will want once you get everything the way you want it. Wait to get the TV before you spend any money. For example the reason you are getting the receiver is because of the HDMI switching and with the new TV you will not need this! |
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 8
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 05:54 pm: |
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But wouldnt it be better if the receiver hooks up to the tv and all the other things hookup to the receiver? I am considering a projector and it would not be possible to have 3-4 25ft hdmi cables to the back of the room.
thus I was plannning this:
1. upgrade the receiver first which still has component outs to my current tv
2. get my bluray so i can plug it into the receiver
3. get the projector tv, if i do not end up getting it, it would be ok to.
the key is the 6.1 speaker part should stay the same as it is a pain in the neck to change out since i dont really want to replace the 2 amps and the 6 speakers and sub. |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 63
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:02 pm: |
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Personally I would not get the front projection. How big of a display do you want to end up with meaning how big will the screen be to watch the video? Are you planning on having the installation professionally done? Again wait to decide on the other components when you have made a final decision on the TV. If you are planning on setting up this configuration you are really going to need some help. There are a lot of things to consider. Are you making a home theater room? |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 363
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:02 pm: |
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ok im back, ted I looked at your speakers, I think they deserve better than onkyo crap, my computers lagging so I cant see the ohm rating, but why are you running the monster amps? I think if you would get a reciever that the speakers deserve you might be happier, hold on Im going to reboot ill be back |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 64
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:08 pm: |
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Angelo, I don't think he really needs a receiver. He can get TrueHD without upgrading his receiver and depending on what TV he buys he may not need the HDMI switching. He has bigger fish to fry right now. He is planning on totally changing his setup soon so it really is not wise to make any decisions until he has decided on the new TV. I think he is biting off a little more than he can chew. I really don't think he is aware of the difficulties he will face with what he is proposing. |
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 9
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:12 pm: |
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I am putting this in my living room. it is a small budget project with no professional installer aside from a friend handyman who can ceiling mount my projector and the screen. I wanted to get a 100" 90-100" screen so I have no other choice, right now i am running a first generation sony 60" xbr grand wega. Been reading up on some 1500-2k HD projectors that had good reviews and thought that may do the trick.
This room is also not a dedicated room, as i use it for my home office, but it has couches and the stereo system in there so I thought just get a larger screen and enjoy. The room is not bright and has beige walls so I thought a projector will do ok. I would love to get a 70"+ plasma or LCD but the price is too high and i've always wanted a large screen cinema experience for the home.
to Angelo: I had to get the monster amps because I had a deal on the bundle and monster owns mdesigns and i had an opportunity to get the setup for a good price. It was qty 2 monster 3channel amps, 1 monster power conditioner, the 6 eleganza 3600 speakers and the bella standalone subwoofer. |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 65
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:22 pm: |
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Not sure what to say then. You really need to consider what the bottom line is on what you are doing. Add up how much you are spending on the receiver, TV, cables, the screen (which you will need as I do not think you will be happy with the picture without it.) To me it sounds like you are going to spend more money than you are aware. When using the receiver as the switch you will need more hdmi cables than you would otherwise need and they are expensive. You will need a long hdmi cable to the projector that will also be very expensive. Make sure to add it all up because it sounds like you will spend just as much money as if you went with LCD or Plasma. Personally I do not like the quality of the video on front projection. |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 364
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:31 pm: |
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ted are the speakers all center speakers and how do you have them mounted?
I have the mits ht 100 projector its a great unit very tough, and I have had projectors in the past I wont use anything else,
jeff you dug into my freind berny and now your treating me like a noob whats your problem,
yes I have gapps in my knowledge and it might appear that im slow because of learning disibilitys, so deal with it,
I have helped a lot of people in this forum, this is not a race to see how can out do the other |
New member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 10
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:37 pm: |
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all 6 speakers are 3600 so yes they are the same. they are not mounted right now as i have not decided how and where to mount them yet, so they just lay on the floor behind and to the side of the couch and in front and to the sides of the tv. |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 365
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:40 pm: |
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I ment mits HT 1000 projector and I dont use HDMI and I probibly wont untill they standardize it the small quality issues with front projection in the home mostly the blacks and lighting issues all fall away with the big cinima feel that you get, I dont even own a tv |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 66
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:42 pm: |
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That was most certainly not my intent. This is a forum and as such you should expect input from others. I was not trying to say that your input was not valuable and I am certain that it is. My post directed to you was more of a request for your input and not meant to insult you. I am interested in what you have to say and I would apreciate the same respect from you! I was not digging into Berny I was merely discussing something with him and sharing my thoughts on it. If you want to think that my intent was less than honorable I have no control over that. That being said I am insulted by your tone! |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 366
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:43 pm: |
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ted mounting the speakers as unique as these are is going to be tricky, but if done right you could have a very cool speaker array |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 67
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:50 pm: |
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Angelo, since you have a front projection. Will he be able to do this for less than what he would have to invest in a flat panel. |
Bronze Member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 11
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:57 pm: |
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i was planning to spend no more than $2500 for a hd projector and a decent 100" screen.
no more than $500 for a bluray player
no more than $800-1000 for a receiver.
my buddy will probably charge me a couple hundred to get the screen and projector installed.
This will not be a super duper setup by all means, but I want something above average to enjoy bluray and dvds with, large screen is a priority also.
Granted i do not need a new receiver, but thought it would be convenient leaving everything the way it is, plug in the new receiver. connect a 25ft hdmi from the receiver to the projector on the other side of the room then be done with it.
Back to the 6.1 question on the top. Jeff, don't the center channel on 6.1 receivers just produce voice? even if the onkyo or another receiver allows one channel to be disabled and send mono signal to it, would it be the same as having a real 6.1 output on the center channel? |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 68
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 07:09 pm: |
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First I think you are putting all you eggs in one basket when restricting your choice of TV based on size. I would consider the size and picture quality. The LCD or Plasma is going to give you a much better picture especially with the blu-ray player. You can get a pretty nice one for the $4000 plus you are planning to spend. If it were me I would go with a smaller size LCD or Plasma if I had to for the benefit of the better picture. To me this is the purpose for making an HD investment not just the size. This way your only investment would be the TV and the Sharp Blu-ray player with the truehd decoder for sound making a new receiver unnecesary as well as alll the other investments the front projector will require.
Yes it would be the same as your current setup the only difference there will be is the HDMI switching that you do not currenlty have but again with the right TV you do not need this. |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 367
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 07:10 pm: |
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ted I have 360 post and you ask if I know what 5.1 or 6.1 means, every once in a wile someone comes in here acting strange, I would like to think that you are as cool as you knowlege, sorry for the insalt because that was my intention,
yes I think he can do the front projection very cheap,
MITS HD 1000 for under a $1000
ceiling mount $150
component cable $100
HDMI he can find cheap I will find the site
paint the goo on the wall $150
screan you can go different ways for now I have a mirror reversed my mirror was there but you can use the wall and paint with dunn edwards low sheen with 5 drops of black, that works well, dont buy the hang screans I have 3 of them and they have creases or worped on the edges, frame strech screans are the way to go but pricey |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 69
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 07:14 pm: |
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Sorry, Angelo I was just trying to figure out what you were asking me. No harm intended... |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 368
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 07:50 pm: |
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its cool jeff now lets see if we can help ted, ted there are some frame mount screens that you can buy that come with the goo coating that got the best reviews on picture quality and price,http://www.projectorcentral.com/goo_systems_projector_screens.htm I trust the reveiws on this subject you can allso look at all the screen reviews just look on the bottom and click, right now Im saving up for a firehawk or something simular were I can put my center channel behind the screen were it belongs, that you can only do with a projector and the fact of how big you can go and have on angel fade or edge fade,
hears my room to give you some ideas, I have made some changes that I havent posted yet and dont mind the carpet http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/3/336284.html |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 70
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:02 pm: |
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Angelo, will he really be able to get a decent front projector for $2500 that will even come close to rivaling an LCD or Plasma. This seems a little unrealistic to me regardless of its reviews. It may be getting good reviews but they are probably based on the quality that one should expect from a device of its type and not really telling him that it will do what he is expecting. I think he is going to be more in the $4000 range. |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 71
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:10 pm: |
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Ted, I hope we did not lose you Angelo was talking to me in that post. Using your name was just a typo |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 369
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:13 pm: |
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wow sorry, come back ted |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 72
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:15 pm: |
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Angelo, what did you think about the last question I asked you? |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 370
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:46 pm: |
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projector are not for everyone, you have to tinker with them ajusting the focus once in a while and the sizing and lining them up, if it has a filter near the bolb (mits dos not) you will have to take it down once in a while to clean the filter but rear projections have simular issius, buying a UPS is a good idea far all as well, as far as picture qauity I veiw tvs as much as possible and lcd and dlp tvs have issues like the fact there getting bigger and when they get past 50" they all have fading problems, front projection dos not, the problems with the fronts is the darks, but with a good projector and the right screen and playing around with the adjustments you can be satisfide, the room light issues will allways be there, the pics of my room are in light conditions, I have viewed a lot of projectors the the mits 1500 for under a $1000 is as good as it gets with out spending to much on a growing industry that will make it obsolete in a short time |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 73
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:53 pm: |
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Sorry Ted, I did not understand your question about the center and the rear. No its not the same. The center and the rear serve two different purposes. The center is as you say is mostly responsible for dialogue but does act in conjuction with the front left and right in creating the sound image. The rear surround receives its own separate signal and as you would expect is for sounds that you would perceive as being behind you in reality. What I said is still true the sounds that come from each speaker will still be the same as what you currently experience with the receiver you have. With any setup of this type the speakers all have their own unique sound coming from them and the system is attempting to make the sound you hear as close to reality as possible. |
Bronze Member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 12
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:55 pm: |
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just came back from watching a movie, lemme catchup here so I can reply |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 371
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 08:55 pm: |
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the pioneer elete kuro plazma has one of the best pictures best picture but look at the price and it wont be as big of a picture as a projector can do, like I said projectors are not for everyone, a tv you just put in a room and your done |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 74
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 09:07 pm: |
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Angelo, he is expecting this to be an upgrade but in my opinion the TV he has is better than the projector that he would be "upgrading" to. He has a sony 60" LCD Rear projection and I am almost certain it has a better picture than the projector he is looking at. I think he is expecting to have his friend install this and that is all he will have to do. He would probably end up spending more than $2500 just on the projector and I would not be suprised if the 25 foot HDMI costs him $500. I know you know how to get it cheaper but I still think this is what he willl end up paying. The bottom line for me is that this seems like a big waste of money to me! If he is going fro the WOW factor he should really consider LCD or Plasma! |
Bronze Member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 13
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 09:21 pm: |
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as far as projectors i was looking at these:
Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080
Mitsubishi HC5000U
Sanyo PLV-Z2000
Mitsubishi HC4900
Panasonic PT-AE2000U Projector
Havent decided on the screen yet, but i guess it will be some grey screen, I read about the Stewart firehawk, but I think the price is too steep so I may end up getting some other grey screen. |
Bronze Member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 14
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 09:24 pm: |
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I am also open to a plasma or LCD, but I have a Sharp AQUOS 45" that I paid dearly for when it came out ~$5k and while the picture looked ok, I am always yearning for a larger screen when I watch a dvd or when I come back from the movie theaters LOL.
I really like the new sony LCD TV and they are super sharp on the bluray with great color, but all the larger plasma and lcdtvs that I have seen, they didnt seem that sharp either or maybe I just didnt get to see it with a good video source, not sure about that. |
Bronze Member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 15
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 09:28 pm: |
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alright now back to the original question. right now I have front left, center, front right and rear left, rear center, rear right.
7.1 does not have rear center but now that i am looking at this link, it seems like the 6.1 does not have a rear center either and only a rear.
http://www.pantherproducts.co.uk/Articles/Audio/surround_sound2.shtml
IF this link is accurate, then as long as the receiver i want will let me shut off 1 channel and supply mono to it AKA run in 6.1 then i am ok right? but then I do not know why the mfgs just dont say 6.1 and 5.1 backwards compatible anywhere that was why I thought that it is not backwards compatible. |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 75
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 09:30 pm: |
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Ted, First I think you are putting all you eggs in one basket when restricting your choice of TV based on size. I would consider the size and picture quality. The LCD or Plasma is going to give you a much better picture especially with the blu-ray player. You can get a pretty nice one for the $4000 plus you are planning to spend. If it were me I would go with a smaller size LCD or Plasma if I had to for the benefit of the better picture. To me this is the purpose for making an HD investment not just the size. This way your only investment would be the TV and the Sharp Blu-ray player with the truehd decoder for sound making a new receiver unnecesary as well as alll the other investments the front projector will require. If it is the wow factor that you are looking for I think you are making a mistake. Have you seen the quality of the picture on these fron projectors for yourself? Do realize the maintenance they require? Do you know that the room will have to be completely Dark? Are there windows in the room that will allow light in during the day. If there are you will not be able to see the picture! It does not even come close to LCD or Plasma.
No its not the same. The center and the rear serve two different purposes. The center is as you say is mostly responsible for dialogue but does act in conjuction with the front left and right in creating the sound image. The rear surround receives its own separate signal and as you would expect is for sounds that you would perceive as being behind you in reality. What I said is still true the sounds that come from each speaker will still be the same as what you currently experience with the receiver you have. With any setup of this type the speakers all have their own unique sound coming from them and the system is attempting to make the sound you hear as close to reality as possible. |
Bronze Member Username: Ingenuity1996
Post Number: 16
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 09:36 pm: |
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Maybe I should take a look at a hd projector pic first then so I can weigh the difference between larger screen size vs better picture.
The only reason i was considering a projector was when i goto the movies, the picture looked great even though clearly not HD. It would be a shame on the bluray discs I play on it though since it wouldnt look as good as a lcd tv. |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 76
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 09:37 pm: |
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You are kind of unnecesarily laboring over the 6.1 thing. With 7.1 there are 2 rears and they have there own left and right channel. With 6.1 there is only one rear and all the sound comes from it instead of the sound coming from two. You will be happy with it the way I have told you to do it. Most of the time you will be listening to the front left and right and the center anyway. The sound image will be accurate the way I told you to do it. I promise |
Bronze Member Username: Cclashh
Post Number: 77
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 09:46 pm: |
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Also replacing the light bulb in the projector aint cheap. But I guess you know this since you have the sony you have now... I really think that the sony you have has a better picture than what you are perceiving as an upgrade by going to this projector... |
Silver Member Username: Huron
Post Number: 372
Registered: Mar-07
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