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Thread: Sony LCD Projection TV Problems |
    
New member Username: Yankees251
Post Number: 5
Registered: Feb-09
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| Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 02:57 pm: |
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@Robbo: Welcome aboard! Be sure to visit the site linked above, join the class-action. |
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Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 35
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 06:23 pm: |
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Thanks everyone for the info on the class action website.
From the filings, I was able to get a great address for Sony's Exec VP and General Counsel, Nicole Seligman.
I have a KDF-60XBR950, which has been left out of any class actions, and probably will never be a part of one because of its date of mfg. It can not be easily argued that Sony had knowledge before selling that there was a defect as can be done with later models. Lawyers tend to go with the easiest bang for their buck and they should be making some change on these cases.
Hopefully the claimants will get more than the class action that has already been settled when it was thought that the replacement OBs did not have the same defect as the orignal sold with the tv. Not being a party to either case I didn't read them completely but, hopefully, the claimants are asking for lifetime extended warranties or full replacement value.
I have been cleaning up the letter, just when I had time. Getting that address was one of the last things that needed to be done. Finally. Thanks again. |
New member Username: Mikedan
Post Number: 7
Registered: Sep-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 06:33 pm: |
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Lisa, Can you give me the main points, or a copy of your letter, that I can template off of? I think mine, kfd-55xs955, is just one model below yours. I bought it Nov 04 from Best Buy, so it was probable mfg mid 04- can't see the back to easily. I assume that mine would be in the same boat as yours as far as their knowledge at the time.
I'm looking for tips to get this started and don't want to waste a lot of effort doing the wrong things.
Thanks
(blue blob-edges) |
Bronze Member Username: Mjrey
Post Number: 12
Registered: Jan-09
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 02:31 am: |
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Well, I've been keeping an eye on this and I'll see if the class action lawsuit gets me anywhere.
I've also noticed that the 52W4100 that I was trying to get as a replacement has dropped considerably in price. It's now well below the price I was offered.
Also since I was last on I picked up a Vizio 42" LCD to replace my old Sony 27" tube TV. The Vizio has been great and I would recommend them if anyone is considering the brand. The 42" works well in the smaller room where we had the old 27" TV but I still need something better for the family room where the blue blob monster is. I'll see if anything pans out with this lawsuit thing otherwise I'll probably pick up a 55" Vizio LCD next year. |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 36
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 11:52 am: |
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Cindy B -
I did this in bits and parts when I had time, which I don't have much of. It shows this by not flowing that well and having a couple mistakes [I fixed a couple for you with brackets], but I just needed to get it out the door so I sent it off yesterday without waiting a day or two to look at it again with a fresh eye. If I kept doing that it never would have been sent. If you are going to write a letter to Sony Law Dept before going to Sm Claims, my advise is to just DO IT. Oh, I should note that I say things are attached OR may be found online. For Sony Law and the FTC, all I attached was a copy of my reciept and the first page of the current lawsuits as filed and the first page of the service ltr, one of them writing in the tv models it pertained to. I have made copies of everything else in case they disappear online, but I will hold those for the Court if it comes to that. And you better believe Sony will be paying for all that copying.
_____________________
Sony Corporation
Nicole Seligman, Esq.
Exec VP and General Counsel
550 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Dear Nicole Seligman -
Below are notes from the Opinion And Order Approving Settlement, filed May 1, 2008, regarding the Class Action litigation against Sony for televisions it manufactured as SXRD models, specifically KDS-R50XBR1 and KDS-R60XBR1. These are televisions which happened to be owned by the initial plaintiffs. It is not an indication that they were the only televisions which qualified for such a lawsuit. The issues now being faced by consumers of all Sony manufactured Liquid Crystal Display (LCD) Rear Projection television sets, made from 2003-2007, the year Sony stopped manufacturing Rear Projection LCD televisions, are pretty much the same, if not worse.
In fact, two more similar class action lawsuits regarding this defective Optical Block have recently been filed by owners of these Sony LCD Rear Projection televisions. On December 5, 2008, in the Southern District of New York, case 08 Civ 8987, an action was filed by owners of the following models - KDS-R60XBR2, KDS-R70XBR2, KDS-50A2000, KDS-55A2000 and KDS60-A2000. And, on February 18, 2009, in the Southern District of California, case 08-CV-2276-WQH-LSP, an action was filed by owners of the following models - Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E A10 and A20 Series LCD.
(Copy of class action lawsuit information pages are attached or may be found online at http://www.sonysxrdtvclassaction.com/main/home.sfx)
My issues are with my Sony television model, KDF-60XBR950, purchased on June, 2004 for $4,956.50.
(Copy of receipt showing purchase price mentioned above is attached.)
Of note is the following, "The Complaint alleges a design defect in all rear projection, high-definition SXRD televisions ... The design defect ... is alleged to exist in a component known as the 'Optical Block,' the central component of a projection television that projects the video image onto the screen. ... The Complaint alleges that the Defect causes a green haze ... a yellow stain ... expanding over time ... or other color anomalies on the screens of the Televisions. The Complaint further alleges that Sony was unable to permanently repair the Defect, and that consumers were forced to pay for replacement Optical Blocks ... if the Defect manifested after the one-year manufacturer's warranty had expired."
"The Complaint asserts nine causes of action, including statutory and common law claims for breach of warranty, a claim of unjust enrichment, and statutory consumer protection claims under the law of California, the laws of 44 other states and the District of Columbia."
"Plaintiffs conducted extensive review of key engineering documents produced by Sony, interviews of several Sony project engineers, consultation with experts ... The discovery allowed the parties to establish the nature and cause of the ... issues, the improvements Sony made to resolve those issues, the timing and efficacy of those improvements, and Sony's ability to replace defective Optical Blocks."
As part of this Settlement, the precedent shows the warranty to be extended 3-4 yrs, depending on when the television was purchased. But this was settled before it became apparent that the replacement Optical Blocks did not solve the problem. At the time, it was believed by Plaintiffs counsel, at least on record, "that Sony has successfully remanufactured the component." And later, "Plaintiffs' counsel conducted due diligence discovery to verify ... its successful redesign of the Optical Block to permanently correct the Defect, as well as Sony's ability to deliver and implement the repair for consumers in a timely manner." And, "Such an extension ... is reasonable in this case because it affords the longest warranty to those ... who purchased their Televisions at the earliest date, when fewer or no improvements had been made to the Optical Block ... it is nearly certain that any class member who will experience a problem with the Optical Block will do so before June 30, 2009." This may have been true for the SXRD models, but not for the Optical Blocks consumers are currently getting from Sony. We now know these statements regarding the reasons to limit the extended warranties are invalid. If this was a new Court case, Sony would have to make any extended warranties lifetime warranties to make it a fair settlement, or it would not be approved. A permanent solution is important to a Court’s approval.
Later, with regard to denying the claimants a complete refund or a new replacement television, it is stated, "Such a remedy is particularly unreasonable in view of the fact that many of the Televisions, particularly the later-manufactured ones, contain improved Optical Blocks that are unlikely to present either ... issue in the future." From overwhelming consumer input and Sony’s own self-issued statements and extended warranties, we now know these statements are no longer true and valid.
(The above Opinion and Order is attached or may be found online at esupport.sony.com/sxrdsettlement)
Below are quotes from the splinke.googlepages.com website. They address the issue of Sony not improving their Optical Blocks, along with information on the extended warranties Sony has issued. This shows Sony’s acknowledgment, and the scope, of the defective Optical Block problem -
“A variety of visual anomalies have been reported on Sony liquid crystal display (LCD) rear-projection TVs, including blue blobs, blue haze, blue star pattern, scribble/random line pattern (road-mapping), green blobs, green haze, yellow stains, purple or pink "fingerprints," and others. Unfortunately, these issues tend to occur after the warranty has expired. Sony has provided extended coverage for some of the issues on some models. However, the extended coverage has already expired in some cases, and it will expire at various times throughout 2009-2010 for other issues, so timing is important. As time has passed and complaints have accumulated, it has become clear that virtually all of Sony's rear-projection models (2003-2007) are subject to severe optical block issues. In December, 2007 Sony announced that they would stop production of rear-projection TVs in favor of flat-panel LCD and organic light-emitting diode (OLED) TVs ...”
“Sony's old cathode ray tube (CRT) TVs have a pretty solid reputation for picture quality and long-term reliability. Although Sony's liquid crystal rear-projection models have had a generally good reputation for picture quality, they have been plagued by serious problems with long-term reliability, which likely arose due to poor design of a central module called the "optical block" (also known as a "light engine"). The optical blocks seem to be poorly ventilated (causing them to overheat and damage internal components), they are subject to dust accumulation because they are open to the atmosphere, and some were apparently manufactured with defective parts.”
And, on this same website, there is more with regards to Sony acknowledging its Optical Block problems with extended warranties. Please note that not only was the time frame of any additional coverage extremely limited, sometimes as little as six months, Sony extended the warranties without alerting those who owned the televisions, even if they had the customers’ contact information on file -
“On May 18, 2006, Sony issued an Additional Service Coverage for the optical block of its 2003-2004 Grand WEGA models (KF and KDF), regardless of the original purchase date of the TV. The coverage included the KF-42WE610, KF-50WE610, KF-60WE610, KDF-70XBR950, KDF-60XBR950, KDF-42WE655, KDF-50WE655, KDF-55WF655, KDF-60WF655, KDF-55XS955, KDF-60XS955, KF-42WE620, and KF-50WE620. The coverage was based on what Sony describes as a "stationary scribble," "squiggly," or "random line" pattern (also called "road-mapping" and other names by some owners). Some have reported that the size of the anomaly tends to increase over time, and others have reported that leaving the TV on continuously for several days can, at least temporarily, shrink or eliminate it … Unfortunately, Sony's additional coverage was good only through September 30, 2007.”
“On June 23, 2007, Sony issued a 2004 Grand WEGA Additional Service Coverage on the optical blocks of the following models: KDF-42WE655, KDF-50WE655, KDF-55WF655, KDF-60WF655, KDF-55XS955, KDF-60XS955, KF-42WE620, and KF-50WE620. This coverage was based on what Sony describes as a "blue dot" or "blue star" pattern (also called "blue haze," "blue blob," and other names by some owners). Sony posted sample pictures of the blue spot problem, one of which was from my TV (see pictures below). The location and intensity of the blue anomalies can change, tending to get progressively worse. Some users have reported that, over time, increasing numbers of bright blue or white spots appear within the anomalies, which presumably represent pixels stuck in an "activated" state. Colors other than blue have also been reported. The additional service coverage was good only through December 31, 2008”
“Although owners of the 2003 Grand WEGA models were reporting these same blue anomalies, Sony originally chose not to cover these older models. On December 11, 2007, though, Sony issued a "2003 Grand WEGA Additional Service Coverage" on the optical blocks of the following models: KF-42WE610, KF-50WE610, KF-60WE610, KDF-60XBR950, and KDF-70XBR950. The language was identical to that for the 2004 models (see above). However, this additional service coverage was good only through June 30, 2008. This was six months before the expiration on the 2004 models, even though the coverage was issued about six months later. This provided a relatively short six-month window for claims, which has now expired.”
(The above is attached or may be found online at http://splinke.googlepages.com)
On the website, ecoustics.com, within the thread entitled, Sony LCD Projection TV Problems thread, there are over 1,000 posts dating back to October, 2005. Here are just a couple of the posts from one day, February 9 -
“Posted by Michelle Clyburn on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 01:10 am: I have the same problem with model KDFE50A10... Sony gave me the same garbage. They claimed to not have any issues of the "blue blob" reported for my model number, but judging by the forums online - it is a well known issue. If anyone hears of a way to get Sony to cover the costs - please let me know.”
“Posted by Cynthia Chavez on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 02:10 pm: I would be interested to know if anyone has gotten Sony to pay for their out-of-extended-warranty repair RECENTLY. I've tried and tried, sweetly and respectfully via telephone and letter to the executive board, but the answer is "No" to covering the cost of repair of the optic block on our KDF-70XBR950. I even asked if they would just supply the part since the original optic block was made with plastic rather than glass, but the answer was still "No." We paid over $7000 for our televsion at the end of 2005. Sony customer relations is unmoved by our story.
I talked with the serviceman and he said the televsion will work wonderfully with the new/better optic block. I didn't want to spend another thousand dollars on something that wasn't worth fixing. We'll see.
I'm still sending a letter to the CEO, but I am not optimistic.
According to customer relations, even if I had heard of the optic block issue prior to the end of the extended warranty, I would not have been able to get the part replaced by Sony. It had to have failed prior to the end of the warranty, even though the part is defective and failure is inevitable. This is bad business.”
(The above is attached or may be found online at http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/2/137540.html)
On the website, avsforum.com, within the thread entitled, Sony GWIII Owners thread, there are over 3,500 posts, so far, starting in October, 2003 by excited Sony Grand Wega owners just purchasing their televisions to the last posts which are about the problems with these defective Sony televisions. These are some examples from just the last page -
Posted by 84jeepjohn on September 9, 2008, 1:29 pm – “I went through 4 OB before the 4th one fixed my problem. It killed me because it costed them MORE to replace the OB than to give me a new TV … but Mine is still kicking, it's on all the time (hate the bulbs though) I just hope Sony gets a 60" LCD soon cause I do NOT want to go down in size (but I'm NOT willing to pay the cost of a used car for the new 70 …)”
Posted by Snuffy101 on October 15, 2008, 6:34 pm - “Well, here it goes again. Tomorrow, my Sony will be getting it;s 3rd. OB in 4 yrs. It is also covered by my extended warranty (I just extended it for another 2 yrs.) The tech came out last week to replace the bulb and he said it needed a new "engine". It was getting blue and pink areas and I was willing to wait a while, oh well. I figured they (CC) would replace the TV by now but still no dice. I have to admit the tech they sent seems experienced and quite competent.”
Posted by Voice of Reason on October 16, 2008, 1:09 pm - “Has anyone had any luck going the Executive Review Committee route to get their TV repaired? I have a KF50WE610 TV that has 45-50 stuck blue pixels (and growing at a rate of about 25 per month) in addition to the "blue haze" problem that is covered by an extended warranty for model year 2004 TVs, but my extended warranty already ran out.
I am pulling my hair out with this one. Why is it that Sony extended the warranty of model year 2004 through Dec 31, 2008 when model year 2003 TVs extended warranty was only good through June 30, 2008 and they are having the exact same issue!?!? What's unnerving is that my TV has a manufacture date of June 2004 on it.”
Posted by Jim R on January 26, 2009, 12:06 pm - “I've followed this forum for a few months, now, and have finally reached the point that I need to present the problem I'm having with my KF-42WE610 and see if anyone has any idea what to do with it.
I bought this set 12/19/03 from Circuit City and made the decision carefully based on the reputation for quality of Sony products, so, among other things, I wouldn't need to buy the extended warranty. I expected to get at least 15 years out of the TV (not 5) …
On 11/7/08 the picture suddenly went to a bright red, resulting in darker areas such as mouths, eyes and hair appearing to be bleeding or on fire. The whole screen had a red tint, but it was more pronounced in dark areas. The problem came and went; sometimes the picture was fine, sometimes it was so dark red, nothing could be discerned, other times it just had a slight reddish tint.
The local Sony repair shop made a telephonic diagnosis of a bad optical block and said it would cost $928.62 to repair. That's when I found this forum and started the process everyone else has gone through, dealing with Sony. I wound up being offered the opportunity to buy another Sony TV at a "bargain" price of more than the same set would cost from other sources on line. After that insult, I bought a 52" Samsung from Amazon, and I, too, should thank Sony for putting me in that position. The Samsung is just fabulous.
In the meantime, I can't accept the possibility that the 42WE610 is just junk. I replaced the lamp, just to make sure that wasn't the problem, but it didn't change anything ...”
Posted by agn on February 8, 2009, 12:29 am -
“Ok time to add my update on the 60" version of the GW3
The purple finger prints started in 2007 and the blue haze appeared in December of 08. We bought the tv directly from Sony in 2004. The set was backordered for months and arrived in the fall.
When i called sony service they had me pay for a technician to confirm the problem.
Then they said they couldn't do anything about it because the extended warrenty was up in June.
I wrote to the Executive Review Committee and Howard Stringer (thanks splinke)
I got a call a few days later from a guy who told me things like,
parts are scarce, and no guarantee that replacing it will not cause it to fail again. I told him to just cover the cost of the optical block and I'll at least have a shot at getting the tv back to normal.
He said it was past the date and that they are not able to assist me with this repair.
I got very upset and decided to file a small claim case against them here in Los Angeles.
I went and filed yesterday and got a date of March 27th.
It cost 40 dollars, 30 for the filing fee and 10 to have their authorized agent served with papers.
Apparently they are not allowed to use a lawyer, but must send someone to represent them on the day of the case.
If they don't show up i win the case automatically.
I will be preparing myself and getting all the data I can to show the judge that consumers should expect a 3500 dollar television to last longer than 4 years. In fact most last 10+
I'll keep you updated.”
(The above is attached or can be found online at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=282d42d7d8527373ee8278717e6da199 &t=309559&page=120)
Per Sony’s own estimate, the defective Optical Block, with what Sony has determined is average viewing, will go out within a couple years. This can be verified by the time frame of Sony’s limited extended warranties, within the settled class action lawsuit mentioned above and without, overwhelming consumer experience and by talking to any Sony television repairman who is being candid. Even for those of us with much lower than average viewing habits and, therefore, Optical Blocks lasting almost 4 years (when the Optical Block on my Sony television went bad), this is hardly the life expectancy consumers reasonably expected from their Sony televisions.
In fact, when I purchased my television in 2004, televisions were still lasting 20 years. I purposely bought an LCD rear projection, and a Sony because I thought it stood for quality, instead of a comparable plasma television because it was generally thought that the plasmas would “only last 10 years.” At the time, I thought it ridiculous to spend so much on a television that had such a known short life expectancy. I expected, especially for the price, that the television would last 20 years.
When my Sony television’s Optical Block went bad, I made Sony aware that I had blue blobs on my television which were, obviously, impairing my ability to watch television. Initially, and repeatedly, Sony took no responsibility for this defective part, refusing to fix the Optical Block and said I would have to pay for the repair of this defective Optical Block myself. I believe this falls into the same category of unjust enrichment as did the extended warranty service plans in the settled class action case mentioned above. Now, instead of using the existence of a defect as a marketing tool to sell consumers replacement extended warranty service plans, Sony is using the defect to sell consumers replacement Optical Blocks. To quote, "Sony was unjustly enriched by the marketing and sale of extended warranty service plans after knowledge of the Defect had become widespread. Specifically, Plaintiffs allege that Sony used the existence of the Defect as a marketing tool to sell consumers extended warranty service plans to obtain repairs for a problem which Sony was legally bound to provide."
My television also had a problem with a warped lamp access door, which happened to fit in the small window of coverage given by another of Sony’s short-term extended warranties, this one for a defective lamp access door and defective lamp housing. This door and housing would eventually melt from the heat of the Optical Block. Bad design all around, it seems.
Please note that Sony did not alert me to the fact that my television was, at the time, currently covered by this lamp [access door] extended warranty, even though they had me on the phone more than a few times during the coverage period. Only because I researched and found this extended warranty that applied to my particular model was I able to forge the path that allowed me to get not only the defective lamp access door replaced at Sony’s expense, but also the Optical Block at Sony’s expense.
The process was not quick or easy. I had to go thru the same blood pressure rising upset others seemed to experience dealing with Sony’s so called customer service representatives until it became so frustrating and unproductive talking with the Sony’s representatives that I refused to call them anymore. And if they called me, I got off the phone as soon as possible. So, I asked my television repairman to talk directly with their tech people. A unique path that seemed to bypass their No Optical Block Replacement Policy and get my Optical Block replaced at Sony’s expense.
With all this, I am writing to request a Sony Lifetime Extended Warranty for my Sony television, model KDF-60XBR950, to cover any and all future Optical Block service and replacements, Lamp Door Access service and replacements and, if my Sony model KDF-60XBR[950] has one, any B Block service and replacements. I believe this covers all of the parts that have been overwhelmingly recognized as defective by consumers and by Sony’s own statements and extended warranties. And, if replacement parts are not available, or my television cannot be fixed for any reason related to the above mentioned defective parts, I would like a monetary reimbursement for the replacement cost of my television, keeping in mind for replacement both picture size and quality.
Thank you for your time,
M. Lisa McGuirk
copy -
Federal Trade Commission
Consumer Response Center
600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20580 |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 37
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 02:02 pm: |
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Sony's Customer Service - Is anyone directing these people?
I just got a phone call from someone at the National level. I don't know if he saw my previous post or they already got the letter, except I only sent it priority, from CA to NY, so I can't imagine it got there yet. Anyway, this is the second time someone from Sony upper Cust Svc has called to just like chat.
I am all for someone wants to hear me rant. Hey, I would have to pay a therapist over a $100 per hr to hear me vent. But with Sony cust svc it too easily can turn into an upsetting experience and it just did.
I was venting and we were doing good until Sony's rep tried to debate me on being informed of the extended warranties on my tv. I missed the first one because I was not informed, even though Sony had my email, my address and my phone no, all on file. He tried to argue that Sony had put out a bulletin and that many customers got it. I didn't, no one on this thread got it. Who are these customers who got the bulletin? And why didn't their cust svc tell me about the lamp door access extended warranty all the times they had me on the phone DURING the time period my tv was covered?
By the end of the conversation I was so upset. What is with Sony's cust svc? How can they be so terrible at their job. All they have to do is let people vent, if anything ...
If Sony Cust Svc is reading this, please stop calling me. It is just too upsetting. |
New member Username: Robbo
Post Number: 7
Registered: Apr-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 09:37 pm: |
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Here's the BS I got from Sony customer service today. At first, they denied that my set had any known defect, but I sent them a copy of their own web page with the service recall. Basically, they say it's just too bad that my set didn't develop symptoms before 12/31/08...ridiculous!
I think small claims court is the next step - who knows how long it will take to get Sony to respond to a new class action?
_______
Thank you for contacting Sony Support.
I'm really sorry for the difficulty you're experiencing with your Sony TV as it has blue spots on the screen. Sony had indeed issued an extended warranty for this model for the Optical Block issue. However, this process expired on December 31, 2008. A number of customers had benefited from this program and it is unfortunate that you could not use that opportunity.
As the process is discontinued, I can only suggest that you've the TV serviced at one of our Authorized Service Centers. You can find repair information and initiate service for your TV at
http://eservice.sony.com
Thank you for choosing Sony.
The Sony Email Response Team
C6ME
Ron |
New member Username: Mikedan
Post Number: 8
Registered: Sep-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 12:00 am: |
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Lisa, Wow that is a great synopsis of everything. Thanks!
So, you did get an optical block replaced, and you sent this letter is because you know it will go bad again soon enough (and now I believe it WILL!)
Am I correct that you made it in before Dec 31, 2008?
I guess I can be added to the list of the "screwed" because we didn't watch enough TV for it to happen sooner, or we bought it 3 months too late to get in the time window.
I read somewhere that Sony can ask for a Small Claims case to be moved to the next level where the plaintiffs would also need a lawyer. Anybody know about that?
I told my whole aerobic class not to buy Sony...I was so mad I just called it out like an announcement! I can tell the whole gym the story, and my son's high school...I run a team website for them. Hey, my other son is in college...My hubby can tell his company. Post it on the bulletin boards...Maybe we need to start a sort of grassroots word of mouth campaign about the reliability of Sony products!!! Just each tell our story...nothing illegal or slanderous there....At least we'll feel better by venting. |
New member Username: Mikedan
Post Number: 9
Registered: Sep-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 12:16 am: |
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One more thing....
If it costs $800 for the part and takes hours to put in...how did Sony make and $ on these things? I assume the other parts also have high price tags. From what I've read there are a lot of parts there...plus the screen and casing and all that.
My point is, can't they at least sell us the replacement parts at THEIR COST!! It seems that they are trying to profit off us again. If the repair was $400 I'd get over it, but not $1000. I wonder what the markup is on the parts?
How long will the optical block part be available anyway, since they haven't used it in their newer sets? That might worry me too. |
Bronze Member Username: Tenshun
Post Number: 22
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 01:05 pm: |
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Im just going to assume that the part itself is only worth between $50 and $150 usd. If you are only paying people 12 cents an hour to make a part that is only plastic, part metal, and part wires? $800?? my black a s s ... They are still gouging us. Cmon class action lawsuit. |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 38
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 02:49 pm: |
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Cindy B -
I had never heard of a case being moved to another level except on these boards by one poster. We may not have got the whole story there. Maybe the company he was suing had a cross complaint or something.
But anyway, it would be too much money for Sony to send someone out or even deal in any way with a little small claims case. And, if they did, bring it on. I would love to open up all the details in Court for all the world to see, and I am sure they would not.
In fact, your post got me thinking. Why wait. I just sent a copy of the letter I sent to Sony on Monday to 2 major and one minor news organization. One of the reasons I put so much info in the letter is so the Court and anyone else would have access to all the info needed to make a decision or do research on the case, like right at their fingertips.
In Sm Claims Court, the judge usually doesn't make his decision right there. He sends you his verdict after listening to both parties and collecting your info. The party that has all their info right there and easiest to ascertain is usually favored.
As for the news orgs, I have had stories published by reporters before using this same method. They love it when someone has done alot of the leg work for them already. It makes it easier to get the story out, and every reporter loves a scoop. With the two class actions filed just within the last few months, this story is bound to be breaking soon.
We'll see if anything comes of it. |
New member Username: Loriebeast
Oxford,
MI
Usa
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:29 am: |
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I think Robbo has something on this small calims thing. Lisa should file. her knowledge is all right there in her letter. I myself would like to follow suit myself. I am going to contact our local news reporter who is a consumer advocate and investigative reporter contacts companys advicate. Do you have like a News hawk? |
Bronze Member Username: Tenshun
Post Number: 23
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 09:35 pm: |
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I dont know why the chatter here is beginning to taper off but, I have been corresponding with the law firm about the suit. They have already sent me a retainer agreement and are looking for more of us to climb aboard.
THIS IS THE REAL DEAL PEOPLE!!
ITS GO TIME!!!
rlax@lax-law.com is his email. He had some interesting info from some EX sony employees that are possibly going to testify on our behalf.
We are absolutely going to win this case and shove it collectively up sonys bumm.
I still HATE sony. And you guys will as well once you find out what the employees have to say about this optical block issue. WOW. |
New member Username: Karwal
Post Number: 9
Registered: Sep-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 10:54 pm: |
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I didn't get the bulletin regarding the issues that my TV had either.......but I didn't send the warranty card in either.....DID YOU????
Warranties are just that. Here is the definition for those that don't want to look it up:
warranty |ˈwôrəntē; ˈwä-|
noun ( pl. -ties)
a written guarantee, issued to the purchaser of an article by its manufacturer, promising to repair or replace it if necessary within a specified period of time : the car comes with a three-year warranty | as your machine is under warranty, I suggest getting it checked.
Some people in this forum have too much time on their hands and unreasonable expectations.
Let the flames begin!!!!!! |
New member Username: Yankees251
Post Number: 6
Registered: Feb-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 08:11 am: |
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@Wayne Ten: I sent the guy an email a two weeks ago, heard nothing from him. |
New member Username: Myhnm
Pennsauken,
New Jersey
USA
Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 08:51 am: |
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My TV is doing it. I just found this thread and have to read it to see if there is a solution But as I read this whole entire long board Here's what my TV Screen looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VMEsHFyjmU&feature=channel_page |
New member Username: Ishscyn
Post Number: 4
Registered: Feb-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 11:38 am: |
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I registered my $7,000.00 KDF-70XBR950 Sony TV on Sony.com supplying my name, email address, and phone number and the details of my purchase. It would be foolish not to register such an expensive item, particularly an electronic. I purchased an extended warranty through Circuit City, as well. I never received any notification via email, mail, or telephone that the original warranty had been extended on the optical block due to known problems.
Sony should supply a replacement part for the defective one they manufactured and installed into the televisions. They are profiting by selling us replacements for parts that are DEFECTIVE.
My television looks great, now. But I'm out 1100 for repair due to the defective part. I've written Stringer and Sony's Executive board, and cc'd to the FTC as suggested here. It's not made any difference, yet.
This should have been a Sony RECALL, NOT an extended warranty. The part WILL fail. There is no question. |
New member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 6
Registered: Dec-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 08:09 pm: |
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Update
I am ready to go to court on Friday march 27th. sony legal asked if I would accept half the cost of replacing the OB. I told them no, that I would not pay for half of their defective part.
She said she needed to check with the California office. That was last Friday. No call back since then. It's on. |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 39
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 11:04 am: |
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Cynthia Chavez - I envy how direct and to the point you are. All good and valid points, and well stated. I will be adding your post to my paperwork for the Court. This should be a recall, not a warranty. Exactly! |
New member Username: Nettenee
Michigan
Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 05:52 pm: |
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I sent an email to the lawyer and they never got back to me. Does anybody know if my model KDF-42WE655 is part of the lawsuit? I have the blue haze/fog problem. |
New member Username: Robbo
Post Number: 8
Registered: Apr-05
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| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 05:57 pm: |
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Rob Lax told me that he doesn't currently have a suit working for the KDF/WE sets. Maybe he needs a few more e-mails from frustrated owners.
rlax (at) lax-law.com |
New member Username: Awatt
Bristow,
VA
USA
Post Number: 4
Registered: Jan-09
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| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 06:41 pm: |
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Linette, I recieved the same info from Mr. Lax. I did inform him it didn't appear to be one particular model but their whole line of rear projection LCD televisions.
I refuse to jump through hopes for with Sony as they will obviously do nothing for me. I will never buy another Sony set as long as I live. I'll also be purging my home of anything I own. And oh it's alot from Playstations, dvd players, stereos and cameras. |
New member Username: Yankees251
Post Number: 7
Registered: Feb-09
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| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 06:41 pm: |
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Why would he not include the KDF/WE in his "class", what does model number have to do with anything if they all use the same defective optical block? I would think the bigger the class the better.
Or is he like most lawyers and sees $$ in two suits? |
Bronze Member Username: Tenshun
Post Number: 24
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 07:48 pm: |
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Im not sure why those sets arent included. Call him directly at 212-818-9150. |
New member Username: Mjwjal
Post Number: 6
Registered: Dec-08
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| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 07:51 pm: |
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I have a kdf/we model as well and I emailed him too and I didn't recieve a reply either. |
New member Username: Robbo
Post Number: 9
Registered: Apr-05
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| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 08:33 pm: |
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I have been also sending faxes every few days to the corporate offices - no replies from them yet, but maybe more faxes/calls/letters will get them to react. |
New member Username: Nettenee
Michigan
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Thursday, March 26, 2009 - 09:28 pm: |
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I will also never buy another Sony product. We have always bought Sony. We may be filing a small claims suit. I am waiting to see some of the outcomes from the people here who have filed. |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 40
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 06:02 am: |
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agn - First off, good luck with your case today.
And, for those that are wondering, here are the models included in the latest lawsuits –
On December 5, 2008, in the Southern District of New York, case 08 Civ 8987, an action was filed by owners of the following models - KDS-R60XBR2, KDS-R70XBR2, KDS-50A2000, KDS-55A2000 and KDS60-A2000. And, on February 18, 2009, in the Southern District of California, case 08-CV-2276-WQH-LSP, an action was filed by owners of the following models - Sony Grand WEGA KDF-E A10 and A20 Series LCD.
And for the settled class action lawsuit, here are the models - KDS-R50XBR1 and KDS-R60XBR1.
The causes of action have changed a bit for the most recent lawsuits from the settled lawsuit. I barely glanced at them, but it seems they zero in on Sony knowingly selling defective tvs. For these later models, it is a slam dunk to prove, and makes it unnecessary to research and prove other causes of action, like some of those stated in the first case.
For those, like me, that have an earlier model, a KDF-___XBR950, the question may still be there - Did Sony knowingly manufacture and sell this tv with defective parts? While it may not seem as easy to prove as it would with later models, it actually is.
Even if it is argued that Sony, an international, multi-billion dollar company, which has been in the consumer product industry company a long time, did not do any quality design research before manufacturing its line of Liquid Crystal Display (LCD) Rear Projection High Definition tvs, and so they could not have knowingly manufactured and sold defective tvs, it must be asked, why, when Sony did figure out the tvs were defective, did they not stop? Clearly, if it was not, and never would have been, Sony’s purpose and intention to sell tvs with defective parts, they would have immediately stopped manufacturing and selling them. And, they would have recalled, in some way, those already sold. By Sony’s clear disregard for its consumers and actions after the fact, it is clear what their purposes and intentions were before the fact. |
New member Username: Ishscyn
Post Number: 5
Registered: Feb-09
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| Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 09:04 am: |
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"Clearly, if it was not, and never would have been, Sony’s purpose and intention to sell tvs with defective parts, they would have immediately stopped manufacturing and selling them. And, they would have recalled, in some way, those already sold. By Sony’s clear disregard for its consumers and actions after the fact, it is clear what their purposes and intentions were before the fact."
Lisa, This is beautiful!!!
Thanks for your compliments, too. You've done much more impressive work than I have. YOU got Sony to pay for your optical block replacement, right? I have tried and tried, with no success.....so, far.
And, Robbo, thanks for the fax #s. I'm going to start faxing!!!
BTW, I emailed RLAX re: class action suit, yesterday, but have received no reply. |
New member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 7
Registered: Dec-08
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| Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 03:44 pm: |
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Just got back from court. First point is that Sony engineers are reading this forum as a photocopy of my posts were with the engineer who showed up.
During the course of discussion with the judge, the engineer stated that Sony legal had offered me a 70% discount on a new Sony model. This is absolutely false, I was never offered anything.
The judge was very good and was trying to get my opinion on just how long they should extend the warranty for this defective part. We were told the ruling would come by mail within a week.
Please know how important it is to be counted. File your small claims case and make these engineers explain to the judge what really happened.
This engineer tried to paint a picture of only a small number of tv's failing, but the judge said that the multiple extended warranties were evidence that it was more than that.
I was most upset that this person lied in open court to make it look like I was turning down 70% offers when the reality is I was offered nothing (They don't make a 60" replacement anyhow)and most people are getting offers that aren't even less than what you would pay on Amazon. |
New member Username: Aidandunane
Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 05:27 pm: |
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For the record my KDF42WE655, bought in 2004 has the optic block problem which just started the other day. Here is a composite of 2 images; channel N and then channel N+1 showing a sort of temporary burn-in. I'm still examining my available courses of action. Talked to a sony rep yesterday who sent me the information and the website link describing the problem ( http://www.kb.sony.com/selfservice/documentLink.do?externalId=C531114&sliceId=1 which, by the way, I couldn't find by searching on their website ) but a different rep today said that Sony would not pay for the repair.
 |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 41
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Friday, March 27, 2009 - 11:18 pm: |
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agn - they sent an engineer - ha ha! I wonder if he was thinking if it was part of his job description to go down and lie in Court. I think engineering is a noble profession, but it is sad the way some companies treat them like dirt.
Would tell us what you ended up asking for and if you had to have a cause of action, like breach of warranty or contract, or fraud, like the class actions?
Thanks so much for sharing. |
New member Username: 79airman
Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 04:56 pm: |
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Hi folks. I just found this board. I have a Sony KDF-55XS955 and it seems to have just caught the Optical Block bug a few months after the "Extended Warranty" ran out. Great that you pay $2500 bucks for a TV and Sony doesn't even let you know to watch for this issue. I haven't started the Sony run-around yet but it looks like I have some "fun" ahead of me. I'll keep you posted.... |
New member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 8
Registered: Dec-08
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| Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 11:15 pm: |
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The engineer gave this statement that I had been offered numerous deals even one as high as 70% off but "all he wants is a free repair"
Umm, yes I don't think I should have to pay to replace your defective part after 4 years. Especially when said part is 1300 with parts and labor.
I am only seeking the cost of repair plus my filing fee. total about 1300.
He also tried to claim that there was no real reason they started making optical blocks with glass lenses instead of plastic. The judge didn't really believe him.
I was really insulted by the tone of the engineer who was essentially saying after 4 years no Sony customer deserves a TV to last longer than that. |
New member Username: Just_joe
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:24 pm: |
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I'm glad someone at Sony is reading this board/thread and good luck to all of you who have started a small claims case. agn, I'll be very curious to see what the judge in your case rules.
Since I was one of the people who got the "too bad for you" treatment and the reddish/pinkish spots on my screen were too much to deal with any longer my wife and I bought a new tv this weekend. As of now we love our new 42" Samsung and I emailed Sony Cumstomer Service to "thank" them for treating a former customer so poorly that I happily gave one of their rivals my money instead of them. |
New member Username: Aidandunane
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 01:23 pm: |
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Hi.
FYI, I submitted a complaint on the FTC website, with a link to this forum and the note that about 35 individuals have seen this defect since Jan 2009 and the number seems to be increasing as the problem matures.
thanks
Aidan. |
New member Username: Mikedan
Post Number: 10
Registered: Sep-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 02:18 pm: |
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Frank, I have the exact model as you, and haven't yet felt up to the aggravation I know a phone call will cause me....Mine started about 3 weeks ago and I got mine in Nov of 2004. When did you get yours?
What is everybody dong with their defective TV's? Do we have to keep them stored somewhere in case Sony changes their minds and re-extends the warranties? What about if there is a class action? Not exactly the type of thing you want to just store....but what to do with it?
Anybody able to get any $$ for them? I thought maybe a handy person, or TV repair guy might buy some, fix them and make a few bucks. |
New member Username: Just_joe
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 03:18 pm: |
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Cindy B,
For now I'm storing mine in my garage. I'm not sure they are really good for anything besides being very heavy paperweights though. |
New member Username: Nettenee
Michigan
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 03:44 pm: |
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My husband got sick in June and can no longer work so we can't afford a new TV. We will have to keep using ours until the blue fog gets so bad that we can't watch it anymore. |
New member Username: Ldenson
Post Number: 4
Registered: Feb-09
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| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 06:10 pm: |
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"What is everybody dong with their defective TV's?"
Personally I plan on loading mine full of fireworks and sending it back to hell this coming fourth of July  |
New member Username: Robbo
Post Number: 10
Registered: Apr-05
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| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 07:24 pm: |
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Here's an update on the deterioration of my KDF-50WE655 set. The first picture (March 16) showed a "Big Dipper" pattern of 7 dots and a corona effect on the lower right.
Here is today's picture, taken March 30:
 |
New member Username: Yankees251
Post Number: 8
Registered: Feb-09
|
| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 07:33 pm: |
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"Personally I plan on loading mine full of fireworks and sending it back to hell this coming fourth of July " please record and post for all of us to enjoy! |
Bronze Member Username: Tenshun
Post Number: 25
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 09:06 pm: |
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Mine is on the floor on my side of the bed facing the wall. I wanted to give it to my friend who is color blind, but his wife would be annoyed. I cant think of anything else to use it for.
I did have the idea drilling holes in the screen, running a compressor inside it, and turning it into an air hockey table for the kids.
I hate you sony..... How dare you. |
New member Username: 79airman
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 09:23 pm: |
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Robbo - Wow! mine looks almost EXACTLY the same! What a strange coincidence! I'm sure there is NO WAY it's a defect!
Cindy B. I think I got mine just about the same time. |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 42
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 12:59 pm: |
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agn – Sorry I have not had time to respond to your post. Thanks so much for sharing all this info. Another question. How did it come up that Sony started making the OB lenses out of plastic instead of glass? Did you bring it up, or did the engineer?
As for the engineer’s insulting tone that a Sony customer doesn’t deserve to have a tv last for more than 4 yrs. That same tone when I first contacted their customer svc is what got me all fired up to make things right. Who are they to reset the standard for the industry. And the law agrees.
From answers.com, under implied warranty, from the Law Encyclopedia and other factual sources, an Implied Warranty is a “Warranty that is not written but exists under the law…” It is “A promise, arising by operation of law, that something that is sold will be merchantable and fit for the purpose for which it is sold. Every time goods are bought and sold, a sales contract is created: the buyer agrees to pay, and the seller agrees to accept ...”
(Note - an express warranty is one that is written.)
“An implied warranty of merchantability is an unwritten and unspoken guarantee to the buyer that goods purchased conform to ordinary standards of care and that they are of the same average grade, quality, and value as similar goods sold under similar circumstances. In other words, merchantable goods are goods fit for the ordinary purposes for which they are to be used. The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) … provides that courts may imply a warranty of merchantability when 1 the seller is the merchant of such goods, and 2 the buyer uses the goods for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are sold (§ 2-314). Thus, a buyer can sue a seller for breaching the implied warranty by selling goods unfit for their ordinary purpose.”
“The policy behind the implied warranty of merchantability is basic: sellers are generally better suited than buyers to determine whether a product will perform properly. Holding the seller liable for a product that is not fit for its ordinary purpose shifts the costs of nonperformance from the buyer to the seller. This motivates the seller to ensure the product's proper performance before placing it on the market …The policy behind limiting the implied warranty of merchantability to the goods' ordinary use is also straightforward: a seller may not have sufficient expertise or control over a product to ensure that it will perform properly when used for nonstandard purposes.”
And from Wikipedia, “In common law jurisdictions, an implied warranty is a contract law term for certain assurances that are presumed to be made in the sale of products or real property, due to the circumstances of the sale. These assurances are characterized as warranties irrespective of whether the seller has expressly promised them verbally or in writing.”
“In the United States, the obligation is in Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). This warranty will apply to a merchant (that is, a person who makes an occupation of selling things) who regularly deals in the type of merchandise sold.”
Under US law, “goods are 'merchantable' if they meet the following conditions:
1. The goods must conform to the standards of the trade as applicable to the contract for sale.
2. They must fit for the purposes such goods are ordinarily used, even if the buyer ordered them for use otherwise.
3. They must be uniform as to quality and quantity, within tolerances of the contract for sale.
4. They must be packed and labeled per the contract for sale.
5. They must meet the specifications on the package labels, even if not so specified by the contract for sale.”
“If the merchandise is sold with an express "guarantee", the terms of the implied warranty of merchantability will fill the gaps left by that guarantee. If the terms of the express guarantee are not specified, they will be considered to be the terms of the implied warranty of merchantability. The UCC allows sellers to disclaim the implied warranty of merchantability, provided the disclaimer is made conspicuously and the disclaimer explicitly uses the term "merchantability" in the disclaimer.[1] Some states, however, have implemented the UCC such that this can not be disclaimed.”
“In the United States, “a disclaimer must be conspicuous in the contract, e.g., in a different kind of print or font that makes it stand out. On the other hand, express warranty, that is, any affirmation of fact or promise to the buyer, or description of the good, oral or written, can be negated or limited only if such disclaimers are not unreasonable. (Uniform Commercial Code, Section 2-316 1).”
“Contractual language can also limit the remedies available for breach of an implied warranty - for example, capping recoverable damages or limiting the remedy to a replacement of a defective item. However, such a term can be found to be unconscionable. For example, if a defective product causes a personal injury, a contractual provision limiting recovery in such a case will be deemed prima facie unconscionable. (Uniform Commercial Code, §2-7193.)”
And from the attorneys-usa website, under products, “Breach of Warranty: A warranty claim is more correctly a contract claim, and not a product liability claim. Warranty claims allege contract between a manufacturer or vendor and its customer that the product will be fit for its intended purpose ... For an implied warranty claim, the plaintiff alleges that although there is no express warranty, or even though the defect alleged is not covered by the express warranty, the defect in the product renders it unfit for its intended purpose." |
Bronze Member Username: Mikedan
Post Number: 11
Registered: Sep-08
|
| Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 08:56 am: |
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So, I called today about my KDF-55xs955 optical block. Started with Jose, hard to understand, but ok. He tried a little bit to say he can't help me and I told him I had figured that and please send me to the next level. Of course, they weren't open yet, but I got my Reference number.
HOw hard do I push at this level? What do I ask to be done, considering we all know they aren't going to give me anything? Do I just say OK, then I'll be filing small claims, or won't they care?
Just looking for tips on how to approach them. Is there yet another level after the one I'll reach after 9am when I call back.(he called it customer relations)
By the way, loved that explanation of implied warranty! |
New member Username: Aidandunane
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 03:54 pm: |
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Hi.
I talked to customer relations a couple of days ago. Explained the situation: that I had filed a complaint with the FTC due to lack of response from Sony and that I was going to be left with a piece of broken equipment that was expensive enought to warrant further action on my part. I went through the history of this: the unreasonable cut-off point for the special warranty; the multiple small-claims cases; the class-action lawsuits etc. I offered my opinion that given that this was apparantly becoming a problem of pandemic proportions for Sony and related to very expensive equipment that represented the flagships of Sony Corporate, they would be well served by stemming the flow of complaints right now rather than let themselves be subject to more media attention later.
anyhoo, I mentioned that I had seen some reports of large discounts on current TVs and the customer rep said that I should look online for a sony tv and call them back; they'd make me an offer.
I'm still mulling this over. |
New member Username: Yankees251
Post Number: 9
Registered: Feb-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 04:04 pm: |
|
@Aidan:"the customer rep said that I should look online for a sony tv and call them back; they'd make me an offer."
Be prepared to laugh your bum off at the "offer", I was told same thing. The offer they presented was a joke, i could get the TV cheaper on amazon. |
New member Username: Aidandunane
Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 04:22 pm: |
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Unfortunately, I suspect you are right. I'll let you all know what they say, just for giggles. |
New member Username: B9builder
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 10:25 pm: |
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After much runaround with Sony over my defective KDF-50WE655, today I was offered a KDL-52S5100 for $1395 or KDL-46S5100 for $895. What do you guys think of this offer? |
Bronze Member Username: Mcjean
Post Number: 25
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 10:59 pm: |
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Chris, I accepted an offer of a 52W4100 for $975.00 plus tax CA and free shipping. They also included 2 years extended warranty. I don't think your offer compares. You might want to keep that in mind. I took delivery on Dec 31st. I'm wondering if the offers are diminishing due to the number of people with problem tv's. GOOD LUCK! |
Silver Member Username: Ovadoggvo
Post Number: 299
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Friday, April 03, 2009 - 12:55 am: |
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Guys,
The green blob issue is a very common issue and until now it's been an expensive issue to repair if you can't get it covered under warranty. I have good news for everyone here. Discount-Merchant has started selling the Optical Blocks for $180-$250 which includes the optics that causes the green or blue blob issue.
Can be found here:
http://www.discount-merchant.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=sony+optical+block
Also, they sell the complete light engines with the optical block for $260-$350 here:
http://www.discount-merchant.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=sony+light+engine
This shines a whole new light on to all the people who have been storing these TV's in hopes for a fix. Their pricing structure makes it VERY feasible to bring these beatiful TV's back to life.
Post your feedback and experiences here. |
New member Username: Mcoleman911
Roseville,
MI
USA
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
|
| Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 08:47 pm: |
|
Have a problem with my Sony KDS-55A3000 (bought Dec.31,2007) which is the last of the LCD rear projections that sony made. When I turn it on the power LED blinks green 14 times and then red once and then re-powers on. It will do this continuously until I turn it off. Is this the start of the optical block problem already? Should I be worried? |
Bronze Member Username: Mcjean
Post Number: 26
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 10:08 pm: |
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Hi Michael...this is the exact same problem that I had. This means that you need to replace your lamp. I actually called SONY when this happened to me, and they were absolutely useless. I called a local repair guy and he was the one that told me to replace the lamp. Problem solved...however about a month later, the optical block started to go. So beware...
Good luck! |
New member Username: Aidandunane
Post Number: 6
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 01:17 pm: |
|
Turns out that my extended warranty that I bought with the set is still valid ( I was positive it lasted only 4 years, but when I called them I found out that it's 5.. and yes I feel moderately sheepish). So there's somebody coming out on Saturday to fix it. I will quiz the repair person about this problem and report back here.. maybe it will add some information to the mix to help you guys out. |
New member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 9
Registered: Dec-08
|
| Posted on Tuesday, April 07, 2009 - 05:22 pm: |
|
I received my judgment from small claims case in Los Angeles County. Sony told me they would do NOTHING for me, and never offered me a discount on another model like others.
I have the KF60WE610 and got the blue haze. The Sony authorized repair estimate was for 1200 and change for parts and labor.
The judge ruled in my favor and awarded me $700. I believe it was the "implied warranty" element that Lisa brought up (wish I had read that before I went in)
Please don't lay down and let Sony take advantage of the situation. If they won't cover half your repair or give more than 700 towards a new TV, then take them to small claims court, and make them tell a judge why the TV fails after the warranty expires.
Thanks to everyone on this forum, as I am sure the judge did his research and saw that this was not in fact an isolated case but a widespread issue that has caused real problems for many people. |
New member Username: Ericpalmatier
Albany,
NY
USA
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
|
| Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 12:06 pm: |
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hello, let me first start off with I just finished reading this entire thread after getting off the phone with Sony "costumer relations". And they need me to call back tomorrow for some unknown reason to get this issue "escalated".
so let me also start off with my issue. I have a sony KDF-60XS955($4100) television that i purchased in December of 2004. I cannot say enough good things about the picture quality of this television. Where this TV is lacking is in the longevity and quality of construction department. Sony's Quality Control has no excuses for this pure lack of assurance which is screwing all of their loyal customers. I first encountered the blue blob several months ago, and to my delight Sony replaced the Optical Block, free of charge, saying it was a known issue and defect and were very apologetic. So i was happy and told everyone how well they treated me. The other week i noticed this dreaded blue blob was back. At first i thought it was an optical illusion, a light perhaps shining on my screen, it was during a bright day that i had noticed this faint blue blob. But the other night i was watching a movie, and during it i noticed, and this time was very sure,that the Blue Blob has come back to haunt my television. So this morning(happy Easter, right!?) I get on the chat system with a sony tech(Derreck) and he informs me that they was never a known issue for my models' Optical Block. When i inform him that he must be mistaken, and raise to his attention the replacement Sony had given me a few months prior he simply disregarded it and to me to call Customer relations for this issue. How unprofessional, i sometimes feel large companies feel that by giving customers the run around, they will simply get tired and stop actively pursuing justice. So i call customer relations to get this friendly chap names Luigi, who is quite nice and looks up my file only to show that there had never been a file created about my first replacement. So now im wondering who Sony sent to my house to get this thing fixed the first time, but i was also informed to call again tomorrow to get this issue escalated. I'm already getting this sense of a run around. I have taken names, dates and record down for my own protections and will call tomorrow to gain further clarification into this matter. |
Bronze Member Username: Mikedan
Post Number: 12
Registered: Sep-08
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| Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 08:39 pm: |
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agn, frank and eric...
First, Frank and Eric, it would seem that the KDF series we have has just recently increased in the number of complaints on here. Mine was about 4 years and 3 months old. Maybe someone will start a class including our set. Don't all these similar sets use the same block design? They should all be on the same complaint.
agn, was yours a KDF also? Could you please briefly describe what materials you took to court? I'm very nervous to do it because while I understand all the info I am overwhelmed and wouldn't know what to bring or state when I got there.
How old was your set when the problem started? YOu said your warranty was up in June, didn't these go to December? See, Told you I get confused.
I think the time limit is arbitrary as this problem is more likely a usage problem, meaning that since I watch less, my problem comes later, and I get no recourse...
If you could provide a link or a file or something with the info you brought to court and provided the judge it would be very useful. Perhaps people could pay you a small fee for it.....Maybe you could snail mail copies of it for a fee....
I'm sure Sony has figured out a defense for whatever the cause was that they lost though!!
Good job by agn! |
New member Username: Patdj
Lakewood Ranch,
FL
USA
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 03:57 pm: |
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If I purchase the optical block from the discount merchant will it permanently fix my blue blurb and blue stars or will they return? Is it easy to install this part? |
New member Username: Aidandunane
Post Number: 7
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 04:59 pm: |
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Hi.
I had mine replaced under extended warranty ( I had purchased this with the tv in 2004 ). Two guys came over and installed it. The process *looked* straightforward enough. I'm sure I could do it if I had to, but I'm fairly handy with electronics. If you decide to bite the bullet and do this youself, check out:
http://splinke.googlepages.com/sonykdf-55wf655opticalblockreplacement
which has step-by-step instructions.
If you think that's a bit risky then you could probably hire a local tv repair person to do it..
Good luck
Aidan. |
New member Username: 79airman
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 08:26 pm: |
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Hi Folks! Well I finally took the plunge and decided to contact Sony about my issue. Honestly, I didn't know if I wanted to deal with it as I expected (and still expect) the same run around others have experienced. I looked into finding a replacement optical block and when that failed, I began shopping for a new TV (NOT Sony). I wrote an email to Sony last night and today I got a call from customer relations. I made it clear in my email that I knew what was going on so it was a short call and we got right to the point. He said he would have someone contact me in 24-48 hours to make me an offer on a discount on a new TV. I can't say I have a lot of faith at this point, but I'll listen to what they have to say. Below is the email I sent to Sony, The address is: SonyListens@am.sony.com
To Whom It May Concern,
In early 2005, I purchased a new KDF-55XS955 rear-projection television as a graduation gift to myself. I spent a little extra money to buy a Sony product because of your reputation for quality. However, barely 4 years later I am seeing a constellation of blue “stars” in the middle of my screen as well as a blue haze at the bottom of my screen which is slowly growing.
I have been on at least 2 message boards where there are many Sony customers complaining of the same thing. Many have expressed extreme dissatisfaction with the response from your company. So much so that I had considered not contacting you at all, sending this TV to the landfill, and purchasing a TV from a reputable manufacturer such as Samsung. From the research I have done on this issue, this is clearly a design flaw and upon further consideration I thought I would give you the chance to retain me as a customer.
Since Sony is no longer making rear-projection televisions, I assume your company has made the business decision to move all of your current customers out of that technology. The only question is, will you do what’s right, or will you lose all of your loyal customers? There is no need to go through all of the details. We both know this issue exists and it is a basic failure of the technology. That being said, if you need more details about my specific symptoms, I will be glad to provide them. To give you some idea I have attached a picture, but we both know that you must have seen thousands of them.
I know the “extended warranty” on this issue ended in January but my issue began shortly thereafter. I have one simple question; is your company will to do anything to make this right? I have been a very good Sony customer.
In the past, I have bought Sony computers, cameras, VCR’s, and camcorders but I will guarantee that if this issue is not resolved, I will not buy another product from your company. There are many good manufacturers that make quality electronics and there is no need for me to feel any type of brand loyalty if you feel no loyalty to me.
It would sadden me to no longer do business with you so I hope for a satisfactory response.
Most Respectfully, |
Bronze Member Username: Mikedan
Post Number: 13
Registered: Sep-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 12:32 am: |
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Very nice email. Well written, complete, polite. Did the possibility of repair come up at all?
Let us know the results right away. I wonder if the small claims loss has made any difference in their thinking.
I think I will send an email as well. I did file the first level report but hadn't followed up yet. I'm glad I waited because the small claim decision came after my first contact. Now I know that they will see an email at that address. I thought an email might get lost in the deluge they must receive each day.
Thanks again Frank! |
New member Username: 79airman
Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 11:03 am: |
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Cindy B. Thanks for the compliment.
No, the subject of repair never came up. As mentioned in my email, I feel that the company has realized that this technology is flawed and they know the Optical Blocks will continue to fail. I think the company wants to move people out of this technology completely and that is why they are offering "discounts". I'm just not sure of their offers are genuine or if they are making lame offers just so they can say they tried. From what I have read so far, I think it is the latter. However, I'm hoping when they call me they will prove me wrong. I would accept a reasonable offer but we'll see. I'll let you know when they call. |
New member Username: 79airman
Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 04:47 pm: |
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OK folks - I got a reply from Sony and here's their offer:
KDL-52V5100 - $1791 + tax Shipping included
KDL-52S5100 - $1391 + tax shipping included
I can get the V series from Amazon for about $1978.
In their gracious benevolence they have given me to April 29th to make a decision. Of course I let him have it as I hoped for a better offer. I asked if he was willing to lose all of these people as customers over this issue, and he pretty much said he was. So I will consider it but Samsung has the number 1 rated 52’’ LCD -TV rated by Consumer Reports. Even if it costs a couple more hundred dollars, after this I am hard pressed to give Sony a dime more of my money. We’ll see. |
New member Username: Myhnm
Pennsauken,
New Jersey
USA
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 06:41 pm: |
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That is not the outcome I was waiting for from your situation. I want my TV fixed. They sold a defective product. |
New member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 10
Registered: Dec-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 07:34 pm: |
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I have a KF-60WE610 Model Year 2003, purchased in mid 2004 from Sonystyle.com and too delivery in September of 04.
The blue haze appeared in December of 08. Called customer service, they told me too bad. sent letter to exec. review and Howard Stringer. Exec review called a week later, told me too bad. Can't help with this repair. Said they couldn't offer anything, to talk to procurement division. They never called. I filed small claims papers in late January. 30 to file, 10 to serve Sony Authorized agent in CA. They cannot send a lawyer to small claims court.
Paralegal from Sony in NY sent fedex letter, claimed they couldnt reach me by phone. BS. Never saw a single call from them. Explained the situation, was told Sony took customer service seriously, and that they wanted to resolve this amicably. I told her I just wanted my repair covered. Parts and Labor came to 1200+ tax.
She gave me the run around for a few weeks, I called her 4 times to find out what next steps were after faxing the repair estimate.
Nothing ever came, no offer ever made.
Went to small claims court in Burbank. Engineer showed up, what went on is posted a few entries up.
1 week later I received a letter stating that I Sony was to pay 700. It is half what I made the claim for, and was almost exactly what I paid for a 50" Plasma from my former employer going out of business.
If you aren't getting a deal that is = to half your repair cost, take Sony to small claims court. It took a total of 2 hours all said and done.
The implied warranty is the key, nobody believes they are buying a tv that will only last 4 or less years. Make them explain to a judge why you wouldn't expect at least that life from a TV. |
New member Username: 79airman
Post Number: 6
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 07:38 pm: |
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I would have liked to have mine fixed as well however, they are clearly trying to bail competely on this technology. If they fix itn the problem will come back. Since they are out of the rear-projection business, they are not going to continue to make optical block replacements. Its a shame that such a beutiful TV will soon be junk in a landfill |
Bronze Member Username: Mikedan
Post Number: 14
Registered: Sep-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 07:53 pm: |
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That stinks.
agn, how much did it cost to get your repair estimate? Was it from an "authorized" Sony repair? For some reason I'll bet their estimates cost more....If the estimate was cheap or free small claims might be worth a go.
I wonder if there are any parts in there with value for recycling/selling?
My bulb was new in November, I suppose I could get something for that on eBay......
Has anybody else actually filed small claims that we are waiting to hear from?
Frank,did you , or are you going to mention the small claims case? They should take at least that amount, or close to it, off of a new set.
Love this board!
I'll be getting my email out soon too, now that taxes are all filed. |
Bronze Member Username: Robbo
Post Number: 11
Registered: Apr-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 07:58 pm: |
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If you have the time to wait for action and reimbursement, by all means take the fools to small claims court.
In these economic times, when money is tight, it's not so easy for many of us to wait for a settlement - and these Grand Wega sets are the centerpieces of most of our living rooms.
The best deal we could coax out of Sony for our 4-yr-old KDF-50WE655 was a $500 credit toward another set - and we pushed extremely hard to get them to give us that on a 46-incher - another $2500 outlay just isn't in the budget at this time.
The jerks at Sony play hardball, but if you need a replacement set ASAP, don't take their first offer. |
New member Username: Wylee
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 10:31 pm: |
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I have run into this "blue haze" problem with my 3 year old 42" Sony Grand WEGA 3-LCD projection TV, KFE42A10. Started almost 3 years to date of purchase, no extended warranty of course! I have written to Sony and we'll see what happens.
I am very interested in what others have had in way of a response from Sony, or better yet, a resolution from Sony. I have done a lot of research and found mostly examples from USA where Sony settled several class action lawsuits re this problem in several models of projection LCD TV’s. Basically they are replacing the optical block for free for affected TV's until June 2010 (even if out of warranty). The only problem I see with this is they are replacing using the same type of optical block so in another 2-3 years these Sony owners will likely have the same "blue haze" problem surface again. Better to get 6 years out of the TV than 3 years I suppose!
Let us know how you've gone with your complaints to Sony Australia.......
..................................
Wylee
Brisbane, Australia |
New member Username: Peteinohio
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 01:10 pm: |
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Hi-I've been experiencing the "blue haze" for about a month now. It is incredibly frustrating, especially after spending $135 for a new bulb. I purchased a KDF-60XS955 in August 2005, not even 4 years ago  Does anyone know if there is a class action suit for this model? |
Bronze Member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 11
Registered: Dec-08
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| Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 01:47 pm: |
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I received a check from Sony today for half my claim plus filing fees. $690 total.
The TV cost 3100 in April of 2004.
Since I wasn't offered any new TV, and the Executive Review Committee told me on the phone, "We cannot assist you with this repair" and I missed the extended deadline by 6 months, I consider this a victory.
I printed the entire website that is linked here featuring detailed information on what has gone wrong with these TV's.
Judges are smart, they see exactly what we all see, and it's obvious Sony takes responsibility through these extended warranties.
I encourage you to send a message to Sony that this isn't acceptable and file your small claims case. They will try and settle with you before the date. If they don't it's a good chance you'll get something. |
Bronze Member Username: Robbo
Post Number: 12
Registered: Apr-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 03:50 pm: |
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Update on the blue blob and dots on our KDF-50WE655 set - this photo is as of April 20.
See my other pics above from March 15 and March 30 - it's amazing how quickly it has deteriorated.
 |
New member Username: Ishscyn
Post Number: 6
Registered: Feb-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 04:51 pm: |
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"The only problem I see with this is they are replacing using the same type of optical block so in another 2-3 years these Sony owners will likely have the same "blue haze" problem surface again."
It is my understanding from my repairman that the optical blocks have been changed. The original optical block was made with plastic mirrors and that's why they failed. The redesigned optical blocks are made with glass mirrors and shouldn't fail.
My repairman said the first class action suit came about because that was Sony's most popular model, therefore it was more widespread, the optical blocks were being replaced with the SAME/ORIGINAL design/plastic mirrors, and then failing again.
I was assured that the optical block that was put in my 70 inch KDF-70BR950 was the new one with glass mirrors. I have not filed a small claims suit, but I plan to do so. The repair cost me nearly $1200. The picture is beautiful. It is truly a wonderful television, when it works. I sincerely hope this 1200 optical block gives us at least ten more years from our $7000.00 tv. (Now, $8200 tv)It certainly should have lasted more than four.
I made numerous phone calls and written appeals, to the executive reveiw board, and to Howard Stringer which I cc'd to the FTC. The executive review board said they could offer us a discount on another tv. We don't want that. And they do not make a 70 inch televsion anymore. I never received a reply from Stringer's office.
I hope people keeping coming forward and making noise on this issue.
I've said it before and I'll say it forever; THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN A SONY RECALL
-Cynthia |
New member Username: Spider921
Wyckoff,
N.J
Usa
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 22, 2009 - 11:52 pm: |
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Hi,
I have a kdf 950 that started with the blue haze . the nerve of Sony, when you call to complain they behave like it's the first time the've ever heard of this problem.They should have recalled all these sets. Well I've made my call ,someones come over to officially say its the optical block and now I am waiting for a response has anyone thought of using the media . This seems to be an ongoing problem . Maybe ABC or CNN or maybe NBC .Well I will keep everyone posted with my progress. |
New member Username: Myhnm
Pennsauken,
New Jersey
USA
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 12:25 am: |
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Yes, I thought of using the media. I moved 2 times and I am trying to find the receipt for my KF-60we610 before I move forward and I don't have it. Still I'm ready to call the media. I can contact Nydia Han. She's from 6-ABC Here in Philadelphia. I called her before about another situation with the no good company "Blue Hippo" and she got my $1,100 dollars back from them fast! |
New member Username: Bluesman13
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 06:43 pm: |
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Wow, this is quite a thread. I'm sort of out of the loop here as my Sony is a GW II. Here's a link to my problem:
Does this look familiar to anyone else?
thanks
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2007330&id=1431055059&l=721e5c618c |
New member Username: Aidandunane
Post Number: 8
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 06:56 pm: |
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Hi Steven.
Yes, sorry to say, I think that looks like our old friend the optic block failure. |
New member Username: Wylee
Post Number: 2
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 01:36 am: |
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Here is a photo of the Blue Haze on my Sony KFE42A10 42" Grand WEGA Projectuion LCD TV. I used Sony's online reporting form and after 2 weeks of no response (it says they will respond within 2 days) I wrote them a complaint letter 3 weeks ago ... no response to either complaint. Come on Sony Australia, do something!!!
http://cid-550dec6375761359.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Sony%20Blue%20Haze/03042 009.jpg |
New member Username: Solarismo
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 12:51 pm: |
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http://www.sony.ca/view/707.htm
This might help with the Optic block issue. Should be equivalent warranty extension for USA. |
New member Username: Jerm4c
BC
Canada
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 07:15 pm: |
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I have the exact same problem, bought my 42"LCD TV in 2005 now have blue haze at bottom of screen. everyday it is getting worse!! I have no extended warranty. please continue with updates on this problem. At one time I had all sony products(TV, DVD player, Speakers, and Camcorders), now due to continued flaws in there products, I am no longer a Sony supporter!!! What are the steps to be part of this class action lawsuit?? |
New member Username: Jerm4c
BC
Canada
Post Number: 2
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 11:30 pm: |
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I contacted Sony about my 42" LCD HD TV (KF-42WE620)
I bought my 42" HD LCD TV from Best Buy in 2005. last week I noticed a blue haze on the bottom of my screen. since then it has gotten bigger and more noticeable, as it is now at the point where it reaches all the way across my screen. I have found through my research that hundreds of people are having the same issues, and they say that it is a manufactural defect in the optical block. So, I went on your website and noticed recalls on Optical blocks for certain model TVs. I am writing to see if my model TV also has been recalled for this issue?
And here is the email I received back about a blue haze that has slowly creeped up and distorted my screen;
Thank you for contacting Sony Support.
We're sorry for the difficulty you're experiencing with the Sony TV as it has developed a blue haze over the screen. Based on the information you've provided, it appears that the unit requires service. You can obtain the location and contact for your nearest Sony Authorized Service Center.
Unfortunately, there is no recall for this model at present. We wish to assure you that Sony products do enjoy an excellent reputation for reliability. Despite the precautions taken during the course of design and production, as well as quality assurance, no manufacturer can completely eliminate potential component failure. We can only hope that your faith in Sony products be restored.
Thank you for your time.
Sony of Canada, LTD. |
New member Username: Patdj
Lakewood Ranch,
FL
USA
Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 12:46 pm: |
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For anyone with the Sony KDF-E55A20 model, the attorney for Class Action Suit is Jon M. Herskowitz, Esq., Baron & Herkowitz, 9100 S. Dadeland Blvd., Miami, FL 33156, (305) 670-0101. He is working in association with Robert I. Lax & Associates in New York. This suit is only for LCD Rear Projection TVs. |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 43
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 01:32 pm: |
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Jeremy - I know you are in Canada, but for those in the US, this letter shows Sony's attitude and thoughts. Very telling. It seems Sony has total disregard for consumer confidence and sees these defective tvs as changing the standard for the industry. Thanks for posting it.
Here is a relevant quote from your letter, "Despite the precautions taken during the course of design and production, as well as quality assurance, no manufacturer can completely eliminate potential component failure."
Sony is one of the most experienced and highly ranked electronics companies on the PLANET. For them to try and say their design and production procedures did not turn up these defects is a crock. It seems Sony is saying that they, and every other manufacturer out there, were not, are not, and never will be, experienced and knowledgeable enough about electronic design and production procedures to insure a quality product. Except companies do it all the time! That is where we get all the good quality products out there - Hello? That is what design, testing and production is all about - insuring quality.
When a company thinks it no longer has an obligation to do experienced, knowledgeable and thorough design and testing of a product, or ignore the results of such testing and go ahead and manufacture a defective product, that is when laws have to be made to regulate such errant behavior. That is just what the US had to do to handle such unscrupulous companies who have used quality as a marketing tool and then cried they couldn't insure quality, no one could, when their defective products hit the shelves and consumers ended up paying more for products that were of lower quality.
Sony seems to bank on consumers paying more for quality, yet here they are saying they cannot provide any assurances of quality. They can't have it both ways, so which is it? When I bought my tv I paid more for a Sony because I thought I was buying a quality product, and I think this can be said for many of us. Maybe they should put this in their marketing campaigns - our quality assurance sucks, so be warned this tv may break way sooner than you may be led to believe and we are not obligated, in our opinion, to do anything about it, nor do we care.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. As a merchant (that is, a person who makes an occupation of selling things) who regularly deals in the type of merchandise sold, Sony has an obligation to provide quality goods WITHOUT defects.
In the US, a person has an assurance BY LAW that the goods they buy must conform to the standards of the trade and they must be uniform as to quality and quantity and they must fit for the purposes such goods are ordinarily used.
These quotes are from my post above of March 31, 2009, regarding implied warranty,
"from Wikipedia, “In common law jurisdictions, an implied warranty is a contract law term for certain assurances that are presumed to be made in the sale of products or real property, due to the circumstances of the sale. These assurances are characterized as warranties irrespective of whether the seller has expressly promised them verbally or in writing.”
“In the United States, the obligation is in Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). This warranty will apply to a merchant (that is, a person who makes an occupation of selling things) who regularly deals in the type of merchandise sold.”
Under US law, “goods are 'merchantable' if they meet the following conditions:
1. The goods must conform to the standards of the trade as applicable to the contract for sale.
2. They must fit for the purposes such goods are ordinarily used, even if the buyer ordered them for use otherwise.
3. They must be uniform as to quality and quantity, within tolerances of the contract for sale.
4. They must be packed and labeled per the contract for sale.
5. They must meet the specifications on the package labels, even if not so specified by the contract for sale.”"
Given Sony's lack of conscious or repentance, I believe this letter shows further what I have thought all along, that Sony thought it would actually work in their favor to mfg, and continue to manufacture and sell, defective tvs, changing the standard for the industry and selling tvs every few yrs instead of every 20.
Remember when one could expect a tv to last around 20 yrs? It was not that long ago. When I bought my tv back in 2004, I remember thinking I didn't want to shell out for a plasma tv that would 'only' last 10 yrs. |
New member Username: 79airman
Post Number: 7
Registered: Mar-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 08:08 pm: |
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Hi Folks - I thought I should update you on the current status of my complaint. About a week ago I sent a second letter politely telling what they could do with their insulting offer. Today was the day that their offer expired so coincidentally "Hank" called me. Basically he said he me his best offer. When I explained that I could get the same TV for the same price online Hank told me he can't "compete" with online stores. I pointed out that this situation is NOT about profit for Sony but to compensate me for selling me a defective product. Hank had no interest in anything I had to say, it’s clear he just wanted to sell another TV. I told him my plan for the future will be as follows and I encourage everyone to do the same.
1. NEVER buy another Sony product and discourage everyone from buying them also.
2. Join any class action suit that might become available for your model.
3. Contact the media. If enough of us band together we can get the national media to take notice.
4. Small claims court if possible.
What really makes me sad is reading some of the other message boards where I have read about terminally ill people, whose only pleasure is to watch TV and can't afford to get their TV fixed, are now stuck with this junk. Sony should be ashamed.
Good luck everyone and let me know if you need me to get involved. |
New member Username: Pibcak
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 09:06 pm: |
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I have a Sony LCD projection TV (KDF-E42A10) that recently developed a display problem, but it doesn't seem to be the blue blur or the roadmap problem and I can't get a handle on what the source of the issue is. I was hoping somebody had an idea, so I'm posting a picture below. Anybody know what this is or what causes it? TIA for any assistance.
PS: the "static" along the bottom eventually goes away (as it warms up?) but the vertical lines along the top seem to be permanent.
 |
New member Username: Bluesman13
Post Number: 2
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 10:08 pm: |
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are the blue vertical lines there in every input? |
New member Username: Pibcak
Post Number: 2
Registered: Apr-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 - 11:13 pm: |
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Do you mean cable vs dvd, etc? Then yes. However, the "quality" of them changes depending on what configuration I set the TV to (in the WegaGate controls, so "vivid" looks different than "standard" and "normal" looks different than "full", etc). |
New member Username: Justdoit
Paducah,
KY
Post Number: 5
Registered: Jan-09
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| Posted on Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 11:08 am: |
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Robert,
You could try going to Discount-Merchant.com. They have a diagnosis tool there that could help you.
My real purpose in posting today is to let anyone who may be interested know that I appear to have successfully repaired my KF-42WE610. Like many others, I was insulted by Sony's "bargain offer" to let me buy another Sony from them at a price that was more than I could buy the same unit for from Amazon. So I bought a new Samsung. However, I just couldn't stand the idea of trashing a five year old TV that had cost so much new.
After studying the instructions and photos at Steve Linke's site, I carefully set out to remove the light engine. This turned out to be a very simple procedure. It can actually be done with one Phillips head screwdriver (with a long shank) and considerable care and patience. I took pictures of each step and labeled each connector that had to be disconnected; 14 of them. The light engine is only held in by 3 screws. After getting it out without wrecking anything, I contacted Tri-State Module in Evansville, Indiana, which has been cited as just about the only place that can repair/rebuild the light engine. For $299 plus shipping, Tri-State repaired my unit and returned it to me in one week. They even called me to check on the specific problem was having. I didn't have the "blob" problem, but a red tint to the whoel picture, varying in intensity. They told me that was the logic system, which is part of the light engine. They had already found and corrected that by the time they called me
When I first re-installed the light engine, the TV powered up just fine and hada perfect picture, but after about a minute, the projection lamp blew out. While I was afraid that I had messed up the installation, Ifelt that the only reasonable thing to do was to replace the lamp and try it again. I bought a "lamp only" and installed it in the lamp housing. By the way, this is the only way to go. The installation is so simple there's no point in spending the extra money to get a lamp and the housing.
This time, when I turned on th4e TV it has performed flawlessly. It's only been about 16 hours and it's been run about 2 hours, but, so-far-so-good.
I highly recommend doing this simple repair at a bargain price rather that trashing your expensive TV or using it as a doorstop. Tri-State Module was great to deal with and I'll use them again, if I need anything they can provice.
I also bought a complete repair manual for the KF42/50/60-WE610 in pdf format. It turned out to not be much help, but if anyone would like to have access to it, I'd be happy to share it. Just e-mail me and I'll do my best to get it to you, although it was big enough that it was "zipped" to send to me.
Good luck to everyone who's fighting Sony on this. I hope you rip 'em a new one. |
New member Username: Juandark
Post Number: 1
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 08:17 pm: |
|
i am from colombia i need you for out the this menu, of my tv is a sony kdf e60a20
menu is:
front end
driver version 2.4.112
firmware (rom) ver: 0.0.0
firmware (ram) ver: 3.4.119
asic info: device:7 fab:2 month:6 year:2003
in band (fat) out of band (fdc)
tank you for you help
i want you response |
Bronze Member Username: Tenshun
Post Number: 26
Registered: Nov-08
|
| Posted on Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 09:02 pm: |
|
No comprendo juan. Qué es usted tratando de resolver? La pregunta era vaga. La traducción no es muy buena |
New member Username: Coscos
Post Number: 1
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 02:39 pm: |
|
Same story here. KDF-E50A10 purchased in Jul 05, started getting red band all across the bottom of screen, then later a blue band across the top.
I contacted an authorized repair center and they told me it's the optical block and would cost $1K to fix. This is when I found this website. The next part of my saga is identical to everyone else's. Here is where it differs:
I got the same insulting offers from Sony. On a whim I said the following: "the least you can do is offer me the TV for the $1K it's going to cost me to fix the thing. If you can do that then we're talking." (or something along those lines). WithOUT hesitation, he came back and said "I can do that."
I was quite taken aback. Final result was I ended up paying $1040 for a brand new 52" KDL-52S5100. Honestly I'm quite satisfied with the resolution although I have zero loyalty to Sony any more.
Like others have been saying, do not take their first offer and play hardball with them. |
New member Username: Mark_stanlee
Milford,
Ohio
United States
Post Number: 1
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, May 06, 2009 - 09:00 pm: |
|
Purchased this Television October 2005 new from Circuit City ,also bought the stand made specifically for this TV. Television stopped working April 2009.Called a repair service and the technician opened the front panel and found that access door and everything around door was melted,casing frame etc... The technician informed me that I was very lucky that unit did not catch fire and unplugged unit. With Television $2400.00 stand $500.00 delivery and set up $200.00 and $80.00 dollars for technician to tell me set is a fire hazard and could have burnt my house down and killed my family I am out $3200.00 I have read on many sites that this is happening frequently and Sony is offering very little to replace defective sets. I have pictures and documentation for everything I am writing, is there anyone who can tell me what can be done before one of these sets kill somebody.
model KDF-42WE655 |
New member Username: Auburndmbfan
Post Number: 1
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Sunday, May 17, 2009 - 04:08 pm: |
|
Mark, please see this page - they will pay for the warped lamp door (and optical block if caused by heat) repair. what they won't apparently pay for is the OB issue without the heat damage
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/news-item.pl?mdl=KF50WE610&news_id=261 |
New member Username: Dtjaffe
Post Number: 1
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 02:32 pm: |
|
I just came across this site. I own KF-50we610 and it has the blue blob at the bottom of the screen. The size and shape varies. I plan on contacting sony after reading all of these complaints. I will let you know the results as I found the experiences of all of you helpful. |
New member Username: Njsony
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-09
|
| Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 10:45 am: |
|
Purchased my KDF50WE655 from PC Richard & Sons in Oct 2004. I spent the extra $300 for the 5 year extended warranty. Best move ever, I've had the optical block replaced twice so far and like clockwork (every year and half to two years) the purple blotches are back in the center of the screen. PC Richard coming to my house in two weeks, going to get my 3rd optical block. I still feel I should contact Sony. |
Bronze Member Username: Mikedan
Post Number: 15
Registered: Sep-08
|
| Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 05:07 pm: |
|
I finally decided to email Sony re"KDF-55XS955 optical block. My TV is so bad now that it is a matter of weeks or days before I buy a Samsung. I would have contacted Sony sooner if I'd known it would get so much worse so fast. In the beginning it was slow to progress, but now each day there are more stars and the people look more dead (blue cast to skin tones) Photos are from today and one is from April
I'll put this in the basement and hope for a class action, or pick up the small claims papers. All small claims will cost me is a small fee and some printer paper right? Do I file it in my local court?Anything new on class action for this model?
 |
New member Username: Austinh
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-09
|
| Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 07:35 pm: |
|
Hey guys and gals,
Quick question/problem. My wife and I bought a KDF-46E2000 in June of 2007 and have loved every minute of it until tonight when during our sons favorite cartoon it went black, no sound no picture. The green Power light blinked for about 1.5 mins then the red Lamp light began to blink. I called Sony and they recommended I replace the lamp. I would probably accept this however I have only had the TV about two years. From everything I have read on here you guys sound as knowledgeable as the tech I talked to and wanted to know if you had any other ideas before I drop $150-$200 on a lamp. TV was manufactured July 2006 |
New member Username: Ishscyn
Post Number: 7
Registered: Feb-09
|
| Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 09:25 pm: |
|
Hi, Austin,
Yup, the lamps die. Usually, just prior to their death your picture might seem a little duller than usual, and when they go, that's it. We've replaced two lamps in the the last three to four years (the first one was under warranty).
It's the blue blobs and stars that are a problem. Those are the optical block issues most of us are talking about here.
Get your new lamp, you can probably replace it yourself, and your picture will look fine. Last time ours blew we bought two so we'd be prepared next time. The replacement directions on our tv are easy. ( ours is a KDF-70XBR950).
Good luck!
-Cynthia |
New member Username: Aidandunane
Post Number: 9
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 09:43 pm: |
|
Hi Austin.
Replacing the lamp is fairly trivial ( if you're comfortable with a screwdriver you should be ok to do it.
It's considered a "consumer" replacement part so I understand that it is intended to be replaced without technical support.)
If you are confident that you can replace it then you might as well take the current one out and take a look at it.
I've only replaced 1 lamp so I can't speak for every situation, but the dead lamp in my TV was fairly clearly blown when I took it out ( filament detached etc.)
I imagine, however, that the scenario could arise where the lamp is blown but without any visible evidence.
I think the blinking lights are good indicators of the error condition, so if you check out the TV manual it should help diagnose the problem.
As pointed out by Cynthia, you will eventually need a new lamp anyways ( assuming the optic block problem doesn't kill the TV in the meantime.. I hope you are spared that fate), so buying one is in the cards at some point.
cheers
Aidan. |
New member Username: Tricky_460
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-09
|
| Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 10:45 am: |
|
I just had the blue blob appear at the top of my TV yesterday. I have a model KDF-55WF655. I found this message board after doing a web search to find out what to expect for the repair process. Wow, was I in for a surprise. I purchased this in June of 2005 from Circuit City while living in FL. Almost exactly 4 years ago! I am just starting the complaint process, but at least I know what to expect from reading through the posts. I will not be purchasing any Sony products from this point on. I was always willing to pay extra for Sony because I believed that I would be getting a quality product. (Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.) Thanks to everyone here for taking the time to post. At least I don't feel alone. |
New member Username: Bong7r
Northridge,
CA
United States
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-09
|
| Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 02:22 am: |
|
I have a KDF-E42A10 purchased on Dec 2005. A few weeks back I received a replacement lamp that I had purchased from Amazon. After installing the new lamp, I noticed a yellow tint in the middle of my screen. I called SONY and was told my warranty is over and I had to spend about $1000 to replaced the optical block.
Well, SONY was giving me a discount on a KDL-46V5100 for $1,200. I don't want to give SONY any more money and I never called them back.
Is there a class action lawsuit for this model TV? I have emailed rlax@lax-law.com but have not received any reply.
 |
Bronze Member Username: Mcjean
Post Number: 27
Registered: Nov-08
|
| Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 09:18 am: |
|
It's almost as if changing the lamp guarantees the optical block to go. Is it because the old lamp just didn't show up the problem, or is there something in the lamp changing that triggers the problem? I'm amazed continuously, that the offers from SONY have deteriorated to the point that they have. What a piece of junk this lamp technology is, and SHAME ON YOU SONY!!!! |
New member Username: Ishscyn
Post Number: 8
Registered: Feb-09
|
| Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 09:31 am: |
|
The lamp has nothing to do with the optical block failure. We changed our first lamp about a year after we bought our set and about two years before our optical block failed.
Failure of the optical blocks originally installed on these televisions is inevitable because they were made with plastic mirrors which eventually warp.
The lamps are a different issue. They're essentially light bulbs, which have a limited lifespan (about a year and a half, in my experience).
The optical block should have been made to last the life of the television. Too bad Sony won't admit that was an error and recall the sets. |
New member Username: Kypassmore
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-09
|
| Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 01:53 pm: |
|
OK - I guess I'm another one who has this issue. I have a KDF-50WE655 (purchased in 12/04).
I've read through all the postings and found them to be somewhat encouraging, at least from an understanding of the issue point of view.
I originally thought this was a bulb issue and purchased a new bulb in case the one that I had was going bad. I have had this for over 6 months. Finally, I decide that it was getting too bad and I had to change it. Well guess what, the bulb didn’t fix this issue. This leads us into my conversation with Sony this weekend.
I called Sony Saturday morning and was told that I would have to call back today and discuss this with customer relations. Now wouldn’t you know that they called me first? I explained that I had this issue with the “Blue Blob” appearing for several months now and explained the above paragraph to them. I further explained that I did not receive notification of a warranty extension, if so I would have called them. I requested that they fix the TV because of their lack in contacting the consumer – No again! In the end, I was offered a replacement because they sad the warranty had expired.
Their offer:
KDL52V5100 for $1395 plus Tax – free S&H. (Found on other sites for $1700)
After I came back and told them this was unacceptable, they offered $100 less = $1295 plus tax & free S&H.
I told them no and decided to call Robert I. Lax & Associates in New York for direction. (212-818-9150). mailto:rlax@lax-law.com I encourage anyone with a KDF-WE or WF series to contact Robert with specifics.
Regards, |
Bronze Member Username: Tenshun
Post Number: 27
Registered: Nov-08
|
| Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 09:16 pm: |
|
I was just sent the following by Robert Lax:
Hi Wayne,
I’m afraid you are right and that litigation is a lengthy process, and Sony is doing its best to draw it out as much as possible. We are currently dealing with early procedural issues, and the Court will soon turn to Sony’s request to have the case dismissed, which we will of course fight. I will of course keep you updated of any developments, and you can feel free to call me any time.
Best regards,
Rob Lax |
New member Username: Perryd
Amherst,
NY
USA
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jul-09
|
| Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 08:08 am: |
|
I just found this forum after talking to Sony's customer service and having them tell me that they werent aware of the "blue blob". Told me it may be the optical engine and referred me to a service repair shop.
I too own a KDF-55XS955 that I purchased new in October/November of 2004. My lamp burned out on June 8th and after replacing started noticing the "blue blob" appear on the screen. It has gotten much worse over he last two weeks and now I am starting to realize that I may need to replace the tv instead of getting gouged for a $1200 dollar repair for a defective part.
I contacted customer service again after reading this forum and am waiting for someone from the next level to call me back. I also sent a letter to Mr. Lax and asked to be a part of any class action suit.
Any advise?
Dave |
New member Username: Jamison162
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jul-09
|
| Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 03:55 pm: |
|
I have a 60" Sony KDF-60WF655 purchased in '05, about 4 years ago. I started having the Blue Blop syndrome a couple months ago. I have contacted Sony several times and get nowhere. I was told the "recall" for this defect expired 12/08. How was I to know about this or take advantage of it when Sony did not contact me nor was I expereinceing the problem at that time. I am getting screwed....I will NEVER buy Sony again and everyone I know will be warned about Sony products. Obviously this is a manufactureres defect and not a one-off issue as I read about this all over the forums. All of these models will suffer from this problem at some point in time.
My plan of action is to harass Sony about this issue aby calling another 2-3 times, sending emails. Filing complaints with local BBB, the FTC. Contacing any/every lawyer I have info on to be involved in a class action lawsuit. File a case with my local small claims court here in Tallahassee, FL
I paid $3,000 for this tv and this is UNACCEPTABLE SONY!!!!!! |
New member Username: Jamison162
Post Number: 2
Registered: Jul-09
|
| Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 04:30 pm: |
|
Any helpful info on filing in small claims court? Legal name to sue Sony, etc? Thanks!!! |
New member Username: Jamison162
Post Number: 3
Registered: Jul-09
|
| Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 10:16 pm: |
|
Here's photos of my KDF-60WF655:
[IMG]http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr49/jamison162/IMG_2659.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr49/jamison162/IMG_2661.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr49/jamison162/IMG_2662.jpg[/IMG] |
New member Username: Myhnm
Pennsauken,
New Jersey
USA
Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 05:49 pm: |
|
I'm making a YouTube video about this to express my feelings and to warn people about SONY.
It should be up soon on my YouTube page: www.youtube.com/hiddennewsmedia
Hopefully the mainstream news will notice that we all spent our hard earned money on defective products and will also put this out to warn people about this company that I would never buy another product from. Ever! |
New member Username: Davisesq212
Post Number: 1
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 03:12 pm: |
|
Just posting a brief synopsis of my issue with a 2005 KDF60WF655. I started getting the blue haze/blob and called Sony. We tried troubleshooting to no avail. I then contacted GE. They are the owners of my extended warranty. I am working with a Sony authorized repair shop in my area. The were at my home within 48 hrs (less if I elected to go with another local shop which I knew was not a good one). The repairman immeditely indicated it is the optical engine and advised me that he needed tocontact GE as to my options. He indicated this issue was very common and that either they will replaced the optical engine or replace the tv. He was unable to go into specifics about replacements on the tv until talking with GE. I will updatethe board when I heard from GE or the repair shop.
I will add that I am an attorney. Suing in smallclaims isnot as simple as everyone thinks. I do not mean to say it is difficult as any person can go in, file and present their case. However, what is not so simple is winning. At this point, I am far fro the small claims route as my problem is being handled by GE. If I need t go the small claims route, I will but it is not as simple as everyone claims. The good thing about small claims is that you don't have much to lose except about $20 for the filing fee. Bringing in coies of posts from this board will mean almost noting to an arbitrator or a Judge.
If anyone has sued in small claims for the OB issue, I would love to know the outcome. So far, all I have heard is people saying they will sue but no one has.
I do want to add that I spoke via chat to 5 Sony representatives in the last 12 ours online about my OB issue and they were so dismissive, inept and well, simply not versed in Sony products that it was truly embarrassing. I am going to send opies of these chat transcripts to Mr. Stringer in the NY Headquarters (ironically about 20 blocks from where I live) and see if he responds. I would be mortified knowing these representatives worked for my company.
One representative claimed that my issue was not an OB issue even though I had not yet described the problem and she ha obviously not been to my home to see the tv. I advised er an authorized Sony repairman had been to by home and diagnosed it as the OB. She actually apologized to me by sayingshe was sorry that the repair person gave me the wrong information! She also denied any Sony Bulletins having to do with optical blocks for my model. I felt like Iwas talking to myself someties and other times I felt like was talking to a wall. |
New member Username: Myhnm
Pennsauken,
New Jersey
USA
Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 06:08 pm: |
|
Thank you for your post Claudia. |
Bronze Member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 12
Registered: Dec-08
|
| Posted on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 03:01 pm: |
|
It is VERY easy to file a small claims case against a corporation in Los Angeles, I assume it's as easy elsewhere. I called the local courthouse information line and the woman explained exactly what I needed to fill out. It cost 35 dollars i think and then 10 to process serve Sony's authorized agent in the state. I got both fees BACK when the judge ruled in my favor a week after my hearing.
Implied warranty is real, and it reasonable for you to assume a 3,000 dollar Sony TV will last more than 4 years.
As for what I presented. I simply printed the very informative page referenced numerous times in this thread. The information there is very clear and sums up the totality of the situation. If I understood it, I assumed a judge would and that's IMO what happened. Print it out, bring it with you and give it to him when he asks why you brought the case.
Sony will only act if consumers force them to. The biggest selling models got the best extended warranty, the early adopters got screwed. |
New member Username: Davisesq212
Post Number: 2
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 01:13 am: |
|
agn:
It is easy to file a small claims action. It isn't so easy to win and it isn't so easy to collect on a win.
I am curious to know if 1) Sony showed up at the hearing; 2) you presented your case before an arbitrator or a Judge; 3) what 'informative page' did ou present as evidence; 4) what did you sue for; 5) what did you win and 6) did you collect yet? |
Bronze Member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 13
Registered: Dec-08
|
| Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 02:39 pm: |
|
Claudia:
It was easy to win and collect for me. I have already detailed it in this thread but I will provide the info again.
1. Sony sent an engineer to speak on their behalf. They CANNOT send an attorney to a small claims court hearing.
2. A Judge
3.http://sites.google.com/site/sonylcdrptvproblems/sonyrearprojectionlcdtv-optical block
4. I sued for the cost of the optical block replacement plus court filing fees and serving fees. Total was 1300 or so.
5. I won exactly half the amount of replacement ($650) plus the court fees and serving fees ($45)
5. They had to pay within 30 days. The check arrived from Sony legal within 14 days.
Considering that every layer of Sony refused to give me anything (I wasn't even offered a discount on a new TV), I am VERY happy. The amount they gave me was exactly what it cost me to get a 50" plasma LG at an auction by a company I worked for that was going out of business.
I can't say it enough. It was SIMPLE to file (30 minutes of my time 40 dollars total)
It was a simple hearing that lasted 25-30 minutes. I simply handed the printout from the page and stated my belief that a TV should last more than 4 years. It's called an implied warranty. Would anyone purchase a 3,000 TV from Sony if you knew up front it wouldn't last longer than 4 years?
Sony extended warranties on every model because there is a defect, they've already admitted that.
Don't let Sony treat you like garbage, don't let them fool you into buying a new TV at a phony discount. Get whatever money you can and get a new model and don't buy Sony TV's. |
New member Username: Perryd
Amherst,
NY
USA
Post Number: 2
Registered: Jul-09
|
| Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 11:10 am: |
|
agn,
I just tried filing with small claims court in my town and they told me that I could only file a claim within their jurisdiction and Sony doesn't fall in that category. Where should I pursue this? Where can I find Sony's address information?
Thanks for your help,
Dave |
Bronze Member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 14
Registered: Dec-08
|
| Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 01:21 pm: |
|
Wherever Sony sells TV's, you can file. You need to go to your state website and search for Sony in the corporation listings. There is an authorized Sony rep. in all states they sell products. You file at your local court house because you purchased the TV in that area. Then you have the representative served, my local court did it for me for 10 dollars. Call the small claims dept of your local court and ask them for help, I did and they were very helpful. |
New member Username: Perryd
Amherst,
NY
USA
Post Number: 3
Registered: Jul-09
|
| Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 01:26 pm: |
|
Thanks for the advice. I called my local court and they were a little confused about jurisdiction.
I will call them again after I find out Sony's authorized rep information. |
New member Username: Davisesq212
Post Number: 3
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 12:50 am: |
|
agn
I have to disagree with some of your post.
Sony can send whoever they want to represent them at the hearing. If they want to send a lawyer, they can. Half of the small claims court hearings I participate in, a lawyer represents the party sued or the party suing. By no means do you need a lawyer to sue though or represent you.
If a Judge is requested in a big city such as NYC for a small claims action, you might have to show up many, many times to have the case heard. For example, my last case was was filed in May of 2008. The case was finally heard in June 2009. This was because all parties requested a Judge to hear the case rather than an arbitrator. (if a Judge is requested, you can appeal the Decision but if an arbitrator decides the case, the case cannot be appealed).
The Judge hears about 1-3 cases a night depending on how long the cases are. My case lasted an hour and a half and it was not a particularly complicated case. The case had to be adjourned 8 times because when we went each time, there were cases ahead of us waiting for the Judge (with an older index number). Therefore, many times we waited an hour or two and were told to come back in 6 weeks. Sometimes we got lucky and waited for the 2nd calendar call to end (still an hour) and were told we had to have the case adjourned because the Judge couldn't get to use that night.
This 'delay'/ 'time schedule' is the norm if you want to have a case heard before a Judge. An arbitrator usually gets you 'in' that same day.
I am curious why you only 'won' half. What did the decision say? If you fully proved your case, you should have won the entire amount. Did you end up settling? |
New member Username: Davisesq212
Post Number: 4
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 12:55 am: |
|
David
This link may help you.
http://law.freeadvice.com/resources/smallclaimscourts.htm
It lists all the states with the info about small claims cases (filing etc.) and the link to the court who will hear the case. |
New member Username: Davisesq212
Post Number: 5
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 01:03 am: |
|
David:
I also found this for you.....
NYS Department of State
Division of Corporations
Entity Information
Selected Entity Name: SONY CORPORATION OF AMERICA
Selected Entity Status Information Current Entity Name: SONY CORPORATION OF AMERICA
Initial DOS Filing Date: FEBRUARY 08, 1960
County: NEW YORK
Jurisdiction: NEW YORK
Entity Type: DOMESTIC BUSINESS CORPORATION
Current Entity Status: ACTIVE
Selected Entity Address Information DOS Process (Address to which DOS will mail process if accepted on behalf of the entity)
C/O CORPORATION SERVICE COMPANY
80 STATE STREET
ALBANY, NEW YORK, 12207-2543
Chairman or Chief Executive Officer
HOWARD STRINGER
550 MADISON AVENUE
NEW YORK, NEW YORK, 10022-3211
Principal Executive Office
SONY CORPORATION OF AMERICA
C/O SCA LEGAL
550 MADISON AVE 27TH FL
NEW YORK, NEW YORK, 10022-3211
Registered Agent
CORPORATION SERVICE COMPANY
80 STATE STREET
ALBANY, NEW YORK, 12207-2543 |
New member Username: Davisesq212
Post Number: 6
Registered: May-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 01:21 am: |
|
Since I see you are in Amherst, New York (and not NYC), you should also look this brochure (link below) over. It is similar to the pamphlet for NYC small claims filings but it has some additional information that you might want to look at.
I am not sure if Erie County has a Commercial Claims Part but if they do, you might have to sue Sony there since they are a corporation. Ask the Clerk.
As you can note on page 4 of this 'small claims brochure', Sony can be represented by an attorney or any other agent they so choose to defend themselves against your claim. I wouldn't worry too much if they do have an attorney represent them in Court as any Judge/arbitrator will really try help someone who is not versed in the law.
http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/townandvillage/pdfs/SmallClaimsHandbook.pdf |
Bronze Member Username: Allgamesradio
Post Number: 15
Registered: Dec-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 01:26 am: |
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Claudia, California law may be different. No attorneys can represent Corporations in Small Claims cases in CA.
A corporation or other legal entity (but not a natural person) can be represented by a regular employee, an officer, or a director, and a partnership can be represented by a partner or regular employee of the partnership, but the representative may not be an attorney or person whose only job is to represent the party in small claims court.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/small_claims/basic_info.shtml
The courtinfo site at ca.gov also confirms no attorneys may represent the corporation in small claims court.
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/smallclaims/scbasics.htm#bringlawyer
As for the decision, the judge asked what I thought the "expected" life of the TV was. I remember reading an article where Sony said something about 8 years. He asked if I thought it should be 10, 8, 7? I told him at least 8. The TV was about 4 and a half years old when the problem started. I think that's why he gave me half. I already had "half" the expected lifespan. |
New member Username: Davisesq212
Post Number: 7
Registered: May-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 02:06 am: |
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David is in NY so I provided NY law.
My argument as to the tv might have been similar, that is, the expected life should be 8 years. However, I would have further argued that since the life expectancy should be about 8 years, the tv should actually work for 8 years. Your optical block was defective and would not allow the tv to work, thus you did not get the expected 8 years from the set. To allow you to have a working set, you needed the optical block and that cost $X dollars. Therefore, my argument would have ended with, "I need $x dollars to make it last the extra 4 of the 8 expected years".
The issue wasn't what the tv was worth (which might have been half of what you paid for originally or even less) but rather how long should the tv be expected to last and what will make it last that long. Whatever the set needs to make it last that long, you should have been compensated, in full, for. At least that is what I would have argued before the Judge.
As a side note, I found out this morning that GE (the company I bought my extended warranty from) has agreed to fix my tv and will pay for the optical block and labor. They have since notified the repair shop to order the part. The repair shop is now waiting for the part to come in. I will update once I get more news. As I wait, the blue blob is getting bigger. |
New member Username: Perryd
Amherst,
NY
USA
Post Number: 4
Registered: Jul-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 08:31 am: |
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Claudia,
Thank you for taking the time to help push me in the right direction. I did find the DOS website for NYS but was having trouble locating the exact information on Sony (it seems there were at least 10 different possibilities). I will call my local town court here in Amherst about taking Sony to small claims and see if they fall under their jurisdiction or if I have to pursue them through Erie county as a commercial claim.
I'm glad that you brought up how long a TV should last so I can be prepared to make a somewhat educated guess. I agree with your argument that it will take X($$$) to make the TV last the full 8 years and therefore Sony should be responsible for the total repair costs.
I refused Sony's offer from Hank LeClair because I feel spending $600 of my own money to repair the TV doesn't make sense if the part will eventually fail again. Purchasing another TV from Sony seems pretty ridiculous considering how unprofessional they treat us as consumers, and the few hundred dollars savings off the new TV will be moot in another couple months when that TV lowers in price to below Sony's current offer.
I plan on purchasing a Samsung after this resolves, and will always offer my negative experiences with others about the Sony brand. |
New member Username: Perryd
Amherst,
NY
USA
Post Number: 5
Registered: Jul-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 10:13 am: |
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Ok...I called both my town and city courts this morning and both are stating that I have to provide an Erie County address for Sony before I can file with small claims.
Any ideas where to find this information? Does Sony have mailing addresses in Erie or Niagara County? Any help would be greatly appreciated.. |
New member Username: 79airman
Post Number: 8
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 11:07 pm: |
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I have an update on my situation. I gave up on Sony and I could not stand looking at the blue blob anymore. I got a very good deal on a SAMSUNG 640 55 inch. Wow, this is SO much nicer than the Sony! The Sony is only 52'' and this is a 55'' with an 80,000:1 contrast ratio, its just a great TV! I will NEVER buy so much as a Sony cable again. The only real sad thing is I have a huge 60'' boat anchor in my living room. I'm thinking of getting fixed by that company that repairs optical blocks and selling of Craigs list. It's funny, I saw a rear Sony rear-projection sitting by the road the other day. It looks like someone else gave up. Good luck everybody! |
New member Username: Jamison162
Post Number: 4
Registered: Jul-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 11:20 pm: |
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Heck I don't know what to do now with my 60" KDF-60WF655. It's not 1080 of course as it's 4yrs old but has a great picture minus the blue/purple haze. Recently bought a Panasonic Blu-Ray and it's remarkable. I love the TV otherwise.
It's $175 to file a small claims over $500 in my County.
I'm NEVER buying Sony again no matter what due to the way they have mishandled this situation. I think every LCD RP model has been subject to this manufacturer defect of the optical block. And now they want to sweep it under the rug becasue they no longer use that technology and dont want to support it. Sad, sad, sad! Sony screwed ALL OF US on this deal.
Another thing, I will never buy Samsung either. I'm not crazy abot their tv's and hate the 120Hz or whatever look....totally loses the whol cinema look and feel and looks sooo fake. But I say this becasue I have learned Samsung and Sony share technology, parts and are siad to even be made in the same factories. NO THANKS!!! |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 44
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 10:20 am: |
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agn -
As far as I am concerned, you have posted the most useful, informative posts on this thread.
I too wondered why the Judge only gave you half. I believe you are exactly correct in that it was because he asked you what you believed was the life expectancy of your tv, so he went by that.
Personlly, I believe, and would have stated if asked, that the life expectancy should have been at least 15 yrs. And if asked why, I would have said that when I bought my tv in 2004, the LCD rear projection's strongest selling point was that it would last alot longer than a plasma, which was ONLY expected to last 10 yrs. Also, at that time, for those that chose to keep them, many owned old tvs that were lasting 20 plus yrs. While I didn't know if the new technology would last 20 plus yrs, I certainly expected it to perform as it was being sold to perform, longer than 10 yrs i.e. probably something in between = 15 yrs.
And I searched the internet for back up of my thinking, so a Judge would know my thinking wasn't isolated, but was that of an average thinking person . Wish I had shared this on the board before you went to Court agn, but from your posts, I thought you had already done a ton of research. Here it is -
http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv/lcdtv-misconceptions.shtml
"Misconception #2: LCD TV sets last forever.
They say nothing lasts forever—and neither do LCD televisions. The average lifespan of an LCD display is 60,000 hours. If watching TV was your full-time job, and you did it 24 hours a day, it would take you almost 7 years to wear out your LCD display. With more normal viewing habits of, say, 8 hours per day, you can extend the lifespan of your TV by a decade or more (to about 20 years)!" |
New member Username: Yankees251
Post Number: 10
Registered: Feb-09
|
| Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 10:01 am: |
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News I like to read.
"The loss, equivalent to $391 million, comes as Sony and other Japanese exporters have been battered by declining sales, with consumers cutting back on TVs and other personal technology"
"Sony has lost money on TVs for five straight years, trailing Samsung Electronics of South Korea, which dominates major markets with leaner production and more aggressive pricing."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/business/global/31sony.html?ref=business |
New member Username: Karwal
Post Number: 10
Registered: Sep-08
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| Posted on Saturday, August 01, 2009 - 12:54 am: |
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First of all let me thank individuals like Eric Denney who have truly added value to this forum and have personally helped me in my Sony Optical block problem.
Secondly, I think that many here, who espouse a litigious route against Sony, are doing a disservice to those looking for relief. I have no love for Sony, but I believe this route to be a waste of time for most. The time involved and the cost, depending on your location and court fees, can be counter-productive for many.
If you feel differently, so be it, and feel free to ignore my suggestions.
For those who do not wish to have a $2000-$3000 paperweight in their homes I suggest trying to fix it, which is just what I did.
One only needs a long Phillips head screw driver and a little patience. Take pictures as you go and check out Steve Linke's website (found in this thread). The block can take less than a half hour to take out, but go slow if you're unsure of yourself. Take many pics.
TriState Module in Indiana will repair your block for about $300 plus shipping.
I did, and my TV is back in fine form.
And it was actually very easy.
Don't force anything, take your time and most importantly, make sure the set is UNPLUGGED!
Good luck folks. And thanks again Eric!
$300 and I have another four years of use, thats not a bad investment (depending on use).
And for you true "eco-warriors" out there, think twice before trashing your set. |
New member Username: Davisesq212
Post Number: 8
Registered: May-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 07:36 pm: |
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Well, the repairman came yesterday and installed a new block for me. The set is as good as new. It took him about 45 minutes from walking in my door to walking out the door. If I did not have this GE warranty, I would be a angry lady!
Although I do not agree litigation is always the best route, had I been in the position of not having a warranty and had this optical block problem, I would have sued. It might have been a little bit easier for me to do so as I am an attorney who has 10 years of litigation experience but surely anyone can proceed in small claims. Common sense is all you need.
Frankly, this optical block failure is something that should not have happened. Sony is aware of the issue and is not taking care of it in, what I feel is, a fair and responsible manner. |
Bronze Member Username: Yankees251
Post Number: 11
Registered: Feb-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 07:59 am: |
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http://gizmodo.com/5340445/plasma-hdtv-sales-soar-lcd-sales-steady-sony-loses-ev er-more-market-share
Love IT! take that sony! |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 78
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 02:31 am: |
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I have been maintaining a relatively comprehensive informational web site on Sony LCD RPTV optical block problems for the past few years. I recently made a significant update of the content, so I wanted to remind people to visit, if you are interested. |
Bronze Member Username: Lisamcgu
Post Number: 45
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:03 am: |
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Wow - Steve's page is like the most comprehensive thing I have ever seen EVER on any subject. Watch out Sony. This is all anyone needs if they are going to small claims. It covers everything, and in detail with links to backup info, including exact warranties that have been offered, pending class actions, expected life of the tv, small claims arguments, ... wow |
Bronze Member Username: Tberte
Post Number: 13
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 12:27 am: |
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I've been reading that most of these problems have been caused by overheating. I have a KDF-60WF655 and have yet to have a problem, but I'm getting paranoid. Is there anything I should do to prevent this? Can I improve air circulation, higher powered fans. |
New member Username: Rsp
Grapevine,
Texas
Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-09
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| Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 12:58 pm: |
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I started reading this forum when my TV started having problems in October 2008. I have a KF42WE610 that I purchased from Ultimate Electronics on 4/01/2004. At that time I purchased the 5 year extended warranty from them. I went through 3 lamps, a power supply, a warped lamp door and an optical block. The optical block was replaced 12/2008 under warranty. The problem is the optical block is going bad again, only 10 months later. So if you think you are going to get 4 more years out of a new optical block you might want to think again before spending all that money on the repair! |
New member Username: Shas
Post Number: 1
Registered: Oct-09
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 12:16 pm: |
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I just finished reading entire post in this tread. In deed an interesting read. I purchased mine, KDF-55WF655 rear-projection TV from best buy around late 2005. Though I am not a big fan of Sony, as moved into our new home and will need bigger TV, my buddy had suggested I should try Sony. So I went over our initial budget to buy a Sony. Barely 4 years later, I am seeing blue blobs all over the screen and an yellowish colored oval shape in the middle of my screen. I thought give this TV away this weekend but after reading this, I guess $300 is not a bad investment to fix the TV. Hope that it lasts little longer. |
New member Username: Sodawg
Post Number: 1
Registered: Oct-09
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 03:38 pm: |
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Hi all...
I am hoping someone is still active in this thread and can advise if it is too late to get some resolution for my defective TV. I was not aware this was a known issue of a defective part. I figured I was the only one with this wierd issue. Honestly the TV began going gunnysack last October...and due to lack of funds just live with it. Frankly... I have always and only purchased Sony items for my home from Stereo components, to speakers to car stereo to PS2 and PS3, to TV and it astounds me that Sony will not stand behind this obvious mfg known defect. What can I do? Also...for your viewing pleasure, below is a pic of my wonderful } Sony Grand WEGA KDF-42WE655
 |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 79
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 03:44 pm: |
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Check out my informational web site HERE. |
New member Username: Sadiep
Post Number: 1
Registered: Oct-09
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| Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 03:54 pm: |
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I just started having trouble with my Sony TV purchased in October 2006. I have been reading these threads and my wonder is what to do! I spoke to sony and they offered me two options. They can replace the OB free of charge (PS a week ago I replaced the lamp for $220) Or they will send me an upgraded TV for $700 + tax. I have a 50" KDF-50E2000 (which I haven't seen any claims on) and they are offering a 52" KDL-52V5100 LCD flat panel unit. Amazon listed it for $1379 and Best Buy for $1799. Do I want another Sony? I didnt spend $7000 like some of you, but $1800 is still enough money for me! Do I want to see how long it will last if I fix it? Any suggestions? |
New member Username: Ishscyn
Post Number: 9
Registered: Feb-09
|
| Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 04:21 pm: |
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I can't even imagine why you're considering NOT letting them replace your Optical Block!!! It really makes me angry that they didn't do that for most of us on this board! Lamps are supposed to have a limited lifespan, but the optical block was not. Take the replacement block and count your blessings would be my advice.
This renews my interest in a small claim against Sony. I paid to replace the defective optical block in my 72 inch television. No offer of free replacement was extended to us.
Hopefully, they won't have rescinded the offer when you call back! Good luck! |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 80
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 04:40 pm: |
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Sadie,
The advantages of taking the optical block repair, obviously, are that it doesn't cost you anything, and you are not spending any more of your money on Sony products (if you care about that like many of us do). The disadvantage of taking the repair option is that there is no evidence that Sony has ever done anything to correct the defects that cause the problems.
Your first optical block lasted about 2 years before the deterioration became visible. That is pretty average or low average. So, unless your average daily use or the average environmental conditions in your house (e.g., temperature and dust levels) change significantly, you can expect the replacement optical block to last 2 years (until October of 2011). The warranty extensions "conveniently" never last for more than 2 years. The one your model expires in June of 2010.
Before you accept the repair option, I invite you to get definitive evidence that Sony re-engineered the optical block to eliminate the problem. Get it in writing, though. Better yet, get them to throw in a five-year warranty on the repair.
To date, the V5100 direct-view LCD TVs do not have anywhere near the problem reports of Sony's rear-projection TVs. On the other hand, I have seen a number of complaints about them, and other brands are likely better. Other brands may also have much better customer service than Sony should you ever have a problem with them. |
New member Username: Ishscyn
Post Number: 10
Registered: Feb-09
|
| Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 04:51 pm: |
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Steve's advice is better than mine, and much cooler headed. The whole situation just makes me so angry.
We replaced our optical block on the advice of a local repair person. He told us Sony had reengineered the optical block and replaced the plastic mirrors with glass. I have no proof of that.
We replaced our OB at a cost of around $1200, because we'd already spent so much on the television ( 6 to 7k) and it's got a great picture, when it works. It was worth it to us to spend $1200 more even if we only get a few more years from it. The ridiculous discount offer on another TV they gave us was not even worth our consideration.
In the meantime, we've bought three more televisions and there isn't a Sony in the bunch. There never will be another one in our house. According to the sales reps at several stores, they're down to third or fourth on the recommended list anyway.
I do understand why you'd consider taking a discounted replacement tv under the circumstances. I'm just so angry at Sony!!!} |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 81
Registered: May-07
|
| Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 11:38 pm: |
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I just wanted to let everybody know that, on 10/23/2009, Sony issued warranty extension alerts for all of their 2007 rear-projection TVs. Now, every Sony rear-projection model ever produced (2003-2007) has been the subject of a warranty extension, a class-action lawsuit, or both. See my informational web site for links and additional information:
http://sites.google.com/site/sonylcdrptvproblems/
This also reveals a disturbing, but perhaps not surprising, reality related to the class-action lawsuit Sony settled for the 2005 SXRD models. The "Opinion and Order" in that settlement stated on page 4 that Sony had fully resolved the yellow stain issue by September 2006, and that no TVs or replacement optical blocks manufactured after that date should have problems with green or yellow discolorations. Yet, I have emails from owners with SXRD models manufactured in 2007 that got the yellow stains, and this latest warranty extension suggests that it is another widespread problem. |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 82
Registered: May-07
|
| Posted on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 11:46 pm: |
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The newly covered TV models are:
KDS-50A2020 (KDS-50AL120)
KDS-55A2020 (KDS-55AL120)
KDS-60A2020 (KDS-60AL120)
KDS-50A3000
KDS-55A3000
KDS-60A3000
KDF-37H1000
KDF-46E3000
KDF-50E3000 |
Bronze Member Username: Tenshun
Post Number: 28
Registered: Nov-08
|
| Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 12:37 am: |
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Hip hip friggin hooo ray... That STILL doesnt cover the A10 models. Fahk them. |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 83
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 12:44 am: |
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Yes, the 2005 Grand WEGA (A10 and A20) models are the one series for which Sony has not extended the warranty. I'm not sure why--other than sheer cost. The class-action lawsuit on those models is still ongoing, though. Your other choice is small claims court. |
New member Username: Myhnm
Pennsauken,
New Jersey
USA
Post Number: 6
Registered: Mar-09
|
| Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 01:19 am: |
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@ Steve Linke,
Your website is incredible!
Thanks! |
New member Username: Geidelbus
Post Number: 1
Registered: Oct-09
|
| Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 12:29 am: |
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steve> this has been very helpful to me and i hope your going to give me some good and badly needed advise,my 2004 kf42we610 i have replaced the lamp 3 times and now this week need a new one, got it, took off cover and lamp door warped,i repplaced the lamp and turned it on, it worked but also started to burn, so before a actuall fire turned off and called the only local authorized repair in upstate ny Lake elctronics in albany, they said probably the fan, maybe the optical blocker, the usuall stuff for 225 they;ll come out and tell me how much,, so ai ask at work,sears,get some ideas, and look you guys up,,, so now what,do i log a complaint with sony,plug it back in fire extinguisher in hand,,,,,, or go to court??? sure would like your opinion? thanks |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 84
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 01:59 am: |
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Grant,
Sony generally makes better offers on TVs with melted parts than they do on TVs with optical block-related discolorations. There is a warranty extension that covers the melted parts. Also, I encourage you to file an incident report with the Consumer Product Safety Commission, if you believe the melting might have posed a safety hazard. |
New member Username: Tradi1
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-09
|
| Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 02:32 pm: |
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Seems the getsatisfaction.com folks have a limit on negative feedback if a sponsor is involved, so I’ve migrated here to what is hopefully an impartial forum.
Oct 2009 - I have a 4 1/2 year old KDF-42WE655 with a growing/glowing blue blob & streaks. Started the size of a dime 2 months ago, slowly but surely we're now up to the size of an orange. The streaks expand a little each week too.
Got a call back from "John" with SONY after sending an E-mail to: 'SonyListens@am.sony.com'. My initial customer service experience two months ago was just as futile as this one.
If I pay for an estimate from an authorized SONY repair shop, and send them the estimate, they "may consider doing something" for me. They won't confirm what that "something" is. I have to bear the cost of an estimate first, with no indication they will / won't do something later.
I was previously given the insulting offer to pay retail+ for another TV, or $400 towards a repair. John won't tell me what he might be willing to do, or send me anything in writing.
The SONY legal dept. has trained and scripted them well - they are hunkered down on this.
***
Aug 2009 – excerpts from my (answered) letter to SONY…That television has now developed a well-documented failure of the optical block. A blue haze and horizontal streaks radiate from the lower left-hand portion of the screen which impairs viewing. The Internet is filled with postings from fellow consumers reporting the same condition, and sadly, their stories end with the same customer service treatment I received this week. It took several minutes of my time and persistence until I reached a fourth customer service employee, who, after much prodding, offered to: Sell me another television for ~$1,000 -or- receive a $400 credit towards a $1,200 repair (I called an authorized SONY repair outlet for that estimate.) My request for your company to take responsibility, do the right thing, and pay for the repair was denied… |
New member Username: Tradi1
Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-09
|
| Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 02:36 pm: |
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small typo - that should read "unanswered" letter... |
New member Username: Barbblack
Southborough,
MA
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-09
|
| Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 04:35 pm: |
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On November 6, 2004, I purchased a Model KDF-60XS955 Grand Wega from Best Buy for the price of $4,000.00 plus tax. Approximately 2 years later, a blue haze began to develop in the center of the picture, and by the summer of 2007, the “blue blob” was making the set virtually unusable. Even though we had purchased a 4-year service contract from Best Buy, it was determined that the television had a defect that would be covered by Sony, and Sony had their authorized service representative, Elwin Electronics come to my house and replace the “Engine” (Optical Block). At that time, the repair technician informed us that the replacement was a “rebuilt” part. They also turned up the fan speed so that the TV now makes an annoying, high-pitched sound whenever it is in operation. The screen appeared fine after the fix. However, yesterday (28 months after the first replacement) the bluish tinge is once again appearing on the screen.
My call today to Sony “Customer Care” resulted in the predicted result. I was told the TV set was out of warranty and there was nothing that could be done, unless I was willing to pay for another “repair” at significant personal cost. When I told the representative that was unacceptable, my call was escalated to a “Myra” who stone-walled my complaint and informed me that “electronic devices have a short life span.” The only thing she would do for me would be to provide a replacement LCD TV: a Sony KDL-52VE5—which is 6” smaller than my current set--at my cost of $1450.00 plus tax (total of $1540.63 with free shipping), but this "offer" would expire in two weeks. Amazon is selling the identical model for $1473.98 with free shipping and NO tax.
I left a message for Hank LeClaire at Sony Customer Care resolution, and just received a call back. I told him I didn’t want to get my blood pressure up as many other posters on this thread have done, and he at first seemed sympathetic. He once again offered the replacement TV above, and when I told him I could buy it online for less, stated that Sony was not in the “retail” business. (Who sells the retailers their Sony TVs?) As an aside, my mother suffers from mid-stage Alzheimer’s dementia, Trying to have a logical, rational conversation with Mr. LeClaire was reminiscent of my attempts of doing so with her—like down the “rabbit hole”. Hank decided to “sweeten” the pie by offering to cover “part” of the cost of replacement of the OB. I asked him if they had made any changes in manufacturing the failing part (glass lens vs. plastic?) and he indignently insisted that mine was a “technical” question of which he had no knowledge. I asked him if perhaps—with all questions he was clearly receiving on this issue—it might be in his interest to learn the answer. To which he…like every other person I talked to at Sony…continued to stonewall. He concluded by stating his “offers” would be available for only two weeks. I expressed my sympathies about how unpleasant he must find his job of mistreating Sony customers, but that I understood that necessity of holding one’s job these days, no matter the circumstances.
I am interested in participating in any class action litigation that might be organized and have emailed the law firm mentioned in another post. I am checking into a small claims suit as well as sending in the OB for refurb. I, too, will never purchase another product from the Sony Electronics Corporation. |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 85
Registered: May-07
|
| Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 05:03 pm: |
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Barbara,
I spoke with Mr. LeClaire on 9/21/2009. He identified himself as part of Sony’s “Executive Consumer Affairs” department, which, he said, responds to any inquiries that go to Sony executives. (I had sent an email to Sony's Vice President of Worldwide Support, Mr. Philip Petescia, the day before, because he had claimed in the past that the optical blocks had been re-engineered, which is not true.)
At the time, my "best and final offer" with a two-week expiration was $400 off a repair. Mr. LeClaire upped this to $600. Of course, this was another "best and final offer". I told him that I was concerned about having the TV repaired, because there was no evidence that the parts had been re-engineered to eliminate the defect, despite statements to the contrary by several Sony employees and agents, including the aforementioned Mr. Petescia. I further expressed concern that the expensive repair would, thus, not likely change the fact that the replacement optical block would immediately begin to degrade, and the TV would exhibit the same problem again in another couple of years.
Upon my asking the direct question, Mr. LeClaire acknowledged that the optical block had not, in fact, been re-engineered, but that they had been re-manufactured to the original specifications with the same parts. So, he was familiar with and spoke very precisely about the technical aspects of optical blocks on 9/21. I imagine he was told by his superiors to selectively forget that information--poor guy.
Sony definitely has a "canned" response that they are not set up to compete in the retail market, when we express our dismay that their "deeply discounted" prices are virtually identical to the standard prices charged at other Sony-authorized dealers. Funny thing is, Sony has a Price Assurance Policy that includes the following:
"If you are ready to purchase a Sony product and find that exact same product in-stock and advertised at a lower price at any Sony Style venue or Sony authorized reseller let us know and we'll offer you a similar price. Just provide us the proof of price while that price is in effect to get an adjustment."
Interesting, huh?
Steve |
New member Username: Smooth54
Lexington,
SC
USA
Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-09
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| Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 05:26 pm: |
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The only good thing to come from my blue haze problem is finding that I'm not alone. I have a KDF-55WF655 and pretty much experienced the same lack of customer service as the rest of you. Steve Linke's site has been most informative and I'm waiting to see how his small claims case is resolved. I haven't gotten to the letter writing yet as I haven't paid to have my problem professionally diagnosed, although in talking to the local authorized (and reputable) repairman, it is evident it is the OB. I guess at this point time is on my side and my eyes have adjusted to the 37" I moved to the living room. |
New member Username: Barbblack
Southborough,
MA
Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-09
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| Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 06:00 pm: |
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So, Steve, are you saying our Mr. LeClaire lied to me? I'm shocked...shocked! 
Barb |
New member Username: Sonynobologna
NJ
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-09
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| Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 10:45 pm: |
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Hi everyone. Thank you for the very useful information.
We bought the KDF-60WF655 in Nov 2004 and started seeing the blue border at the bottom over the past few months and finally started to repeat turning on-and-off last week.
We did not do our research first so we didn't know about this problem with Sony LCD TVs so we initially e-mailed support@info.sel.sony.com, and the Sony Email Response Team told us bunch of steps to follow but we have had no success so we contacted the local Authorized Service Center as suggested. The manager told us that it's the optical block which will cost $1000 parts and $345 labor.
Then we did some research and found Mr. Linkefs web site. We e-mailed both support@info.sel.sony.com and SonyListens@am.sony.com requesting that the new re-engineered optical block which has eliminated the problem with labor charges included be provided to us at this time along with a five-year warranty on the repair.
Next day we received e-mail back from support@info.sel.sony.com referring us to the Customer Relations Team. We also received a phone call from 800-430-4433 with a reference number asking us call back so we did. The rep told us that the extended warranty for our model expired in June (just 4 months ago!) and offered us 1/2 of the repair cost OR KDL52VE5 for $1450 (Amazon price is $1439) with 2 weeks expiration. She told us that there is no one in customer relations to whom we can escalate our request.
At this point, we are thinking that we either 1) take 50% repair cost offer OR 2) continue requesting for a cost free repair paid by Sony via Executive Review Committee then Small Claim, etc, OR 3) have optical block repaired by Tri-State Module...
Can we take the 50% repair cost offer then request to be paid for the balance of the repair cost via Executive Review Committee then Small Claim, etc ?
Does anyone have suggestion for our next step ?
For those who were able to have their unit repaired cost free, how did you do it ???
What if it's not optical block problem ??? |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 86
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 01:06 am: |
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The "blue border" at the bottom of the screen is almost certainly an optical block issue. Does it look like the picture at this link?
If the picture is going on and off with the light blinking on the front of the TV, you may very well need a new lamp, as well. That will probably be ~$200. This could be a different problem, as well, such as the thermal fuse. Does the sound or whole TV shut off, or is it just the picture? This secondary problem complicates your decision, as it requires additional funds.
It will probably cost ~$300 to have TriState Module refurbish your optical block. Keep in mind, though, that it will probably fail like your original, and you need to have the technical expertise to remove and replace it from your TV.
It sounds like an optical block replacement by a technician would cost you ~$700 after Sony pays for half. However, just like the TriState Module option, the replacement optical block will probably fail like your original. Also keep in mind that, if the part is ~$1,000, Sony's theoretical $700 they are paying you will really not cost them anything.
If you accept the "half off repair" offer, Sony will almost certainly NOT make any further offer. Therefore, you should appeal to the Executive Review Committee prior to accepting any offer, if you are seeking more. I only received the offer for full coverage of the repair after I filed my small claims lawsuit.
My advice would be to send a letter to the Executive Review Committee with a demand that they repair your TV or replace it with a comparable model free of charge. Then, be prepared to file a small claims lawsuit if their subsequent offer is not acceptable to you. |
New member Username: Jeffpete
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-09
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| Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 01:54 am: |
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Mine is similar to all the tales of woe listed here, with the exception that I don't have stars or blue blobs but rather vertical red lines running the width of the screen (I wish I had a blue blob in the corner!) I did have a Sony authorized repairman call it a bad engine light (OB) and quote $1200 repair...and I pissed and moaned to Sony to no avail. Then something strange happened: the vertical lines disappeared and the picture was great again...until we turned the TV off. The next time we turned the the set on, red lines were back. Since then we had one more "clear" period that lasted several days until we once again turned the set off. I'm wondering if anyone else had a similar experience and if possibly a repair might be as simple as a lamp replacement. |
New member Username: Sonynobologna
NJ
Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-09
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| Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 06:55 pm: |
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the excellent website and your quick reply to our questions.
First, to answer your questions:
> Does it look like the picture at this link?
Yes !
> Does the sound or whole TV shut off, or is it just the picture?
Whole TV shuts off.
And more questions for you:
Do you have a sample letter that was sent to the Executive Committee ?
How long did it take for you to settle the case in small claims court ?
Assuming that it will take longer than 2 weeks, once we appeal to the Executive Committee and maybe file small claims court and we do not get full repair paid by Sony, do you think that we can still get at least the initial offer 50% repair cost even after 2 weeks ?
We live in NJ -- do you know where we need to file our claim ?
Thanks. |
New member Username: Sonynobologna
NJ
Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-09
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| Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 06:59 pm: |
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If anyone else has answers/suggestions to my questions above, please feel free to comment. Thanks. |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 87
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 01:08 am: |
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I'm not sure what is causing the TV to shut off, but it is most likely independent of the optical block. That is a separate area of concern.
In my demand letter to the ERC, I wrote the following sections: 1. described everything that had happened (model number, serial number, Sony event numbers, dates, etc.), 2. I wrote that I felt they were in violation of the implied warranty of merchantability due to their unwillingness and/or inability to replace the optical block with one that lacked latent defects, and 3. I demanded repair or a comparable TV at no charge to me.
If they don't answer you in a way that satisfies your demands within about 30 days, you can file in small claims court. Here in the San Diego area, it was about 5-6 weeks between the filing date and the trial date. The trial took about 20 minutes.
Sony may make a better offer after you file, but before the trial. They improved their offer to a free repair on the day of my trial, but it is up to them whether they keep their old offer open, make a new one, or rescind all offers.
New Jersey small claims info should be available here:
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/civil/civ-02.htm |
Bronze Member Username: Mcjean
Post Number: 28
Registered: Nov-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 10:13 am: |
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Sonybologna... In a nutshell - here is a timeline of my experience with SONY.
My TV started shutting off on it's own and our local SONY repairman said "it's the lamp" and it was. A new lamp solved that problem. However, approx 30 days later and, voila - a blue blob started appearing. My same repairman told me it was the optical block. I ended up opting for the TV replacement from SONY and am still annoyed over the fact that I was basically forced into this decision. Who wants a 50"TV with a blue blob in it? I definitely wouldn't have them fix it, cause it WILL return. No guarantees at all. Good luck with your issue and if you can, get on board with the lawyers. It's about time something was done about this... |
New member Username: Jasonhgc
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-09
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| Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 12:58 pm: |
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This is a copy and paste from my earlier post at getsatisfaction.com. I was directed to come over here and post since i seems as though Sony is influencing the site to truncate their posts (the negative ones).
"I responded last Tuesday and my post was conveniently deleted. I have spoken with a few people regarding a possible class action in Oregon. I have recently filed complaints with the FTC and the Oregon DOJ. Yesterday I sent letters to Sony's Executive Review Committee and their Chairman and CEO. The FTC and Oregon DOJ were copied on my letter and supporting documentation. I would like to know how many other people had registered their television with Sony upon purchase and were never notified of the extended warranty or problems with the optical block. That is the reason we register. For product recalls, problems and service updates the affect the television we purchased. Please feel free to contact me at jasonhgc@hotmail.com as posts on this board are likely to be erased since Sony is doing everything they can do control the negative posts. I will updated the board if I get a response from my letters and what I plan on doing next." |
New member Username: Joe_casolo
El Sobrante ,
Ca
USA
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-09
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| Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 06:13 pm: |
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I have a Sony 60 KDF-60XS955 which I used to love. I bought it in '04 and have only had to replace the bulb once. I find it terribly convenient that the optical block decides to start failing once the warranty expires on the tv. I am appalled at Sony for the things I am reading on the web. I can't believe such a well established company will not stand behind their products. I for one would love to get involved in a class action lawsuit demanding free repair or replacement in California.
I have seen snippets about a Class Action suit in California, but have not been able to find any detailed information about how to get involved.
Can someone help point me in the right direction?
Power to the people, even if we are TV Watchers!! |
New member Username: Skin052
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-09
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| Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:28 pm: |
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Hi everyone, lots of info on this problem, thanks to sites like this!!!! I have a KDF-46E2000 with a 3 inch horizontal, transparent red/yellow band across the top and a 2 inch band across the bottom. Started about 2 months ago. Changed the bulb out and of course, no luck. After searching the web I have come to the assumption that I am having the Optical block issue to some degree. I also assumed that my warranty had experienced as I purchased this set in 2006. Having limited service techs in my area, Newfoundland, I assumed I was in for a expensive, out of pocket service call. I finally got around to finding my invoice and to my surprise I had actually purchased a 2 year extended warranty!!! Called them up and they said that I had another 3 weeks before my warranty expired!!! Made a service request and was told to expect a call within 2-3 days from a repair tech. I am hopeful that the service tech understands this common problem and suggests that they simply replace the set. I know I am pushing it but I am also very persistent and happen to work in the IT & AV world so am hoping some professional courtesy will prevail. I will keep you updated if anyone is interested. |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 88
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 05:45 pm: |
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Tony, yes, I am interested. Keep me updated. If you are forced into a repair rather than a replacement, please be persistent in getting a statement (preferably in writing) on whether the optical block part has been re-designed and whether the part you receive is brand new or refurbished. A comparison of part and serials numbers on your existing and replacement optical blocks would also be valuable.
Steve |
New member Username: Smooth54
Lexington,
SC
USA
Post Number: 2
Registered: Sep-09
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| Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 11:18 pm: |
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Now I'm faced with a dilemma, my KDF-55WE655 with the blue haze has shut down. Seems the flashing red stanby light indicates the thermal fuse is blown, so in order for me to have the repair estimate done so that Sony can make me an offer, I will have to replace the fuse in order for the tv to work so the repair tech can see that the OB is defective, and from what I've found online the repair should run about $200, not sure what to do at this point. Ideas anyone? |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 89
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 03:33 am: |
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Jim,
Did you mean KDF-55WF655? Does the red standby light blink 6 times? If so, you are probably correct about it being your thermal fuse.
If you have some technical skill, it is possible to replace the fuse yourself, although you do so at your own risk and that of your TV. The part itself should be available for <$20. For example, if you go to the Sony parts site, and enter "191002393" in the part number search box, you will get the thermal fuse for a KDF-55WF655, which appears to be $4.80 (plus shipping and taxes).
Google "Sony thermal fuse" to find a number of sites describing how to do it. Here is one example. You can also use my site as a guide, because I have pictures of optical block replacement on the same model.
Steve |
New member Username: Smooth54
Lexington,
SC
USA
Post Number: 3
Registered: Sep-09
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| Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 08:32 am: |
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Steve,
Yes it is the KDF-55WF655, and I do have some technical skill. I am going to order the part and will let you know how the process goes. I checked out your link and it looks fairly straight forward. Again, thanks for your help and knowledge. BTW, how's the small claims process going? |
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