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Thread: Sony LCD Projection TV Problems |
    
New member Username: Sandra_lewis
Post Number: 9
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 11:24 am: |
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Thank you Kevin and Raymond for the information. I don't think I have anything to lose. It's better than spending the money to buy a new TV right now. I have a KF60DX 100/P Sony Grand Wega 60 inch. I don't know if they have the optical block for this model or not, but I'll find out as soon as I call them. Thanks again for the response. |
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Relevant Product Info
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New member Username: Sunnysingh
Post Number: 3
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 12:58 pm: |
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Hi Everybody
(Hi Sandra Lewis who replied to my post) Sony told me that BLUE BLOB is covered but YELLOW BLOB is not. Moreover, they told me that if my TV was a different model, KF60XBR950 instead of KF60XBR800, then they would fix it for free. Here is roughly how my conversation with Executive Review Committee went:
Me: Please fix my TV as you have done for so many other customers.
Sony’s ERC: Sorry Sir, your model is not covered. Moreover it does not have the typical blue blob that we are covering.
Me: Blue or yellow blob does it matter? Why is Sony covering certain model and not all?
Sony’s ERC: Sorry Sir, we only cover certain models. We have offered you $500 off toward a new TV.
Me: Correct, but your dollar for exchange department does not have a 60 in TV in stock and they are offering a 50 in instead. I do not want to downgrade from 60 in to 50 in. I would really like Sony to fix my TV as it has done for so many other customers.
Sony’s ERC: Sorry Sir, we cannot do that.
Me: Ok how about just pay half the repair cost ($1000) and I pay the other half ($1000).
Sony’s ERC: Sorry Sir.
Me: Ok how about $500 that you offered toward buying a new TV. Can you apply that toward the repair cost? I will pay the rest ($1500).
Sony’s ERC: Sorry Sir.
Me: Ok how about just ship me the new optical block and I will pay the local Sony authorized TV repair shop to put it in.
Sony’s ERC: Sorry Sir.
Me: If feel that Sony is selectively picking customers and TV models to fix. Why Sony has decided not to fix every TV that has bad optical block problem.
Sony’s ERC: Sorry Sir, we only cover certain models.
Me: I have no other option other than filing a complaint with Better Business Bureau and going to Small Claims Court.
Sony’s ERC: Sir, you can do that if you like.
Me: I have been a loyal customer of Sony forever. I have another Sony TV, a HD camcorder, and two laptops from Sony and many other products. I have advocated buying Sony products to all my friends in the past. This TV was the most expensive ($5500) product I invested -- because I believed in Sony’s quality. But now Sony has decided to ditch me. If Sony does not fix my TV, as they have done for so many other customers, they will loose me as a loyal customer.
Sony’s ERC: Ok Sir.
So now I have decided the following:
1. Never buy a Sony product in future.
2. Never advocate Sony products to my friends.
3. Tell my story to at least 100 friends and save them from Sony’s bad business practices (It works!! Friends listen when you have a genuine story)
4. Try to get my story in the local press (Find a friend of a friend who works for local press. Please help if you know someone).
5. File a complaint with Better Business Bureau
6. File a case in the Small Claims Court.
I don’t think that this will get my TV fixed but at least this will help me find solace. If I can turn away 100 people from buying a Sony product, lets say an average price of $500, then I would have saved ($50, 000) hard earned dollar ending up with a company that does not care for its customer.
Thanks Ecoustics for providing this web site – Sunny |
Bronze Member Username: Kevin_conley
Post Number: 19
Registered: Dec-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 01:49 pm: |
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Try the consumer on your side type local news.
On the 500$ towards a new tv, its because they will still be making money, $500 off retail price still makes them money on a 3000 tv. $500 towards your bill is a $500 loss.
Can only hope more people report issues with your model, Im guessing that is how it works for fear of class action law suits. I wish someone on the board was a lawyer or had a friend that was so we could see what it takes to do a class action suit. |
New member Username: Sandra_lewis
Post Number: 10
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 03:30 pm: |
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Sunny, your conversation with the ERC sounds almost exactly like mine. We are presently trying to file a claim with small claims court. Kevin, there has already been a class action suit. I had the link to it....I'll try to find it. If your model is not among those listed that Sony will cover, the attorney will not even return your call. Seems to me it would be just the opposite. Why do the ones who have models that Sony has chosen to fix even need to file a class action suit? There is a blog regarding the class action suit:
http://www.breakitdownblog.com/class-action-lawsuit-against-sony-for-green-haze- or-green-blob-sxrd-problem/ |
New member Username: Xdvsx
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 08:49 pm: |
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I own a KDF50E2000 and have recently started to have problems with the picture. I have purple smudging in the top corners, and it fans out into a green haze. It's only noticable on lighter scenes. White's the worst, but you can see the haze on all lighter colors. I just started to notice this about 4 days ago(3 weeks out of my warranty, as the TV is only a little over a year old).
Does anyone know what the problem might be?
pics...
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6404/leftcornertb3.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6186/rightcorner1qo3.jpg |
Silver Member Username: Ovadoggvo
Post Number: 114
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 02:33 am: |
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L. Zeigler,
The problem that you are describing is the same as the "green blob" issue everyone else has with these TV sets.
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The problem you all are describing also known as "the green blob" problem is caused by the heat of the lamp in the light tunnel crossing the 3LCD lighting module. This problem is caused when the uv protection on the lenticular screens is worn out due to intensive heat. This problem is happening to all TV's using an XL-2100, XL-2200, XL-5100, and XL-5200 lamp enclosures.
If you guys take notice, this problem usually occurs after the original lamp has been replaced once or more in the TV set. The cause of this problem is "uncertified" replacement lamps. The TV was not meant for AFTERMARKET or NON-ORIGINAL replacement lamps to be used.
If you are a Sony TV owner and have had your TV serviced or have replaced your lamp, please check to see if your replacement lamp or lamps were ORIGINAL PHILIPS PRODUCTS. You will see lamps for sale everywhere on the internet with companies trying to make a buck selling an aftermarket product as "OEM REPLACEMENT" or "100% OEM COMPATIBLE"... These lamps are manufactured by OSRAM, DNGO, APO, LTI (OLD), and other replacement manufacturers. The fact of the matter is that after extensive testing of the lighting spectrum and heat decipation of these lamps, the results show aftermarket lamps (non-Philips) to burn at a higher temperature. This slight increase in light generated temperature causes your TV's "green blob" problem. This "green blob" problem is the same problem as the Zenith "Yellow blob" and "Blue blob" problem.
In conclusion... Check to make sure your servicer or replacement lamp dealer has sold you a geniune Sony replacement part which should include a 100/120W Philips brand lamp for XL-2100, XL-5100, XL-5200 enclosures.. and a 120/132W Philips brand lamp for the XL-2200 enclosure.
Sony is contesting the "class action law-suite" against them claiming that these aftermarket bulbs are the cause of the problem.
For all Sony, Hitachi, Zenith, LG customers.. It is crucial to your TV's life that you use a geniune Philips replacement lamp to prevent "blob" issues.
Your dealer and/or service will not refund you or compensate you in any way for a "blob" problem so don't even attempt. They will deny any relationship to the problem and send you on your way. ALL IN ALL, it is not their responsibility as they are just trying to make a buck.. It is the users responsibility to know what you buy and to be aware of the consequenses of buying an aftermarket product.
Dealers that sell AFTERMARKET (CHINESE/OSRAM/DNGO/APO) lamps:
Interlight
BulbSolutions
DLP Lamps and More
Laptops For Less
Electrified
Bluestar
Pureland Supply
DLPLampSource
SamsungPARTS
-Not really Samsung factory.. They are just a Samsung Parts distributor. The company name is J&J International.. Also running different websites on the side selling OSRAM brand lamps for SONY, PANSONIC, ZENITH, HITACHI, and other TVs
People on Ebay with "OEM COMPATIBLE" or "100% OEM REPLACEMENT" lamps..... and of course... Many more! BE CAREFUL.
COMPANIES SELLING VALID SONY/PHILIPS PRODUCTS:
SonyStyle - #1 Most Expensive
Crutchfeild - #2 Expensive
Vann's - #3 Expensive
Partstore - #4 Expensive
MCM Electronics - #5 Expensive
Discount-Merchant - #6 Least Expensive
Check before you buy.. Ask your retailer, reseller, servicer... Make sure it's a PHILIPS... What you take out should be what you put back in.
I hope this helps! |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 55
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 03:17 am: |
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1. My KDF-55WF655 developed the blue haze/blob problem with the original lamp, so the problem is certainly not restricted to after-market lamps.
2. While the KDF50E2000 does not currently have extended coverage for blobs/haze from Sony, numerous other models do have this coverage.
3. I don't think it is very clear from L. Zeigler's pictures whether the problem is blue/green blob/haze (overheating) or pink/purple splotches/fingerprints (dust).
Sony Optical Block Problems web site |
New member Username: Xdvsx
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 03:58 am: |
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Thanks for the quick replies. I haven't had to change the bulb yet, so I'm not sure if my situation falls into that category. I'd say my lamp has no more than 2000 hours on it.
I called Sony and set up a service call for next week. I went back and forth and was passed to about 3 different reps/higher ups. The rep told me if it was a bad optical block, the house call/labor/parts would be covered.
Would it be wise to cancel the service call, recoup my $100, and cut my losses?.....or would this fall under an optical block problem(wether it's green blobs or the purple fingerprints, or both in my case)?
...btw Slinke, nice site, lots of good(some horrifying) information. |
Bronze Member Username: Sjones1
Post Number: 43
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 12:19 pm: |
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L.Zeigler,
If Sony doesn't cover it...it's not going to be cheap. While the actual fail point inside your light engine (LE) appears to be a very simple lens/filter (or sometimes lcd panel), replacement instructions point to a complete new LE...and if you get a new one,, it will be expensive  Refurbished one's are avaialble, but do you really want to go through the same nightmare you've already gone through...in 6 months, all over again?!?!
ovadoggvo, do you have any stats to back up original philips vs. aftermarket lamp claims? It clearly makes sense, but have you actually seen in at your shop? I've always been a supporter of the original manufacture lamps...and Philips is the company that created UHP lamps.
This is a quote from Philips' Lighting division:
"Original vs Compatible
Projector lamps have been developed in close cooperation between the world’s leading lighting technology companies and projector manufacturers, matching lamp design to driver electronics and optics to ensure the optimum projected image, reliability and lamp-life. The manufacturing process is complex and tightly quality-controlled to ensure user safety when the lamp is in operation.
Due to the characteristics of the product it is our strong advice to anyone buying or reselling lamps to work with original manufacturers’ products."
it goes on further to state:
"Use an original lamp as replacement to ensure safe and optimal working of your projector/rear projection television, brightness, lifetime and colours!!"
That was pulled directly off Philips' site.
Of course you can get original parts from Sony, but who wants to pay retail prices...
discount-merchant.com does have great prices on these...and as far as I know they are strictly Philips only distributor,
Here is a link to their Sony lamps:
http://www.discount-merchant.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=sony+lamps
Anyway, ultimately the consumer can only do so much...it's not your fault if you buy aftermarket brake pads and those brake pads cause your car to break down...someone has to be held accountable!
I'm glad Sony is somewhat being responsive by extending warranty on the LE for the following models:
KF-42WE610, KF-50WE610, KF-60WE610, KDF-60XBR950, and KDF-70XBR950
Problem is that the Sony Class Action Settlement deadline has passed. Does that mean everyone else is screwed?
ovadoggvo, ok...we learned out lesson, originals only...but are we screwed now? |
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Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 56
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 01:55 pm: |
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OK, I think that is enough blatant advertising. I don't usually do things like this, but I want everyone here to know that the eCoustics "Rear Projection TVs" forum is full of posts from "ovadoggvo" proclaiming the virtues of a certain merchant that sells rear projection TV lamps, and that installing other lamps may damage your TV.
In at least three of the topics--one on Samsung TVs, one on Panasonic TVs, and now this one on Sony TVs--the ovadoggvo post is followed closely by a post from "Steve Jones" who supports the ovadoggvo post with further doom and gloom, as well as additional advertising for the merchant. "Steve Jones" apparently "learned a lesson" on his Samsung rear projection TV and bought a lamp from the merchant in question, and now he has apparently learned his lesson on his Sony rear projection TV. Probably, he has learned his lesson on his JVC, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, etc. rear projection TVs and bought the right lamps from the right merchant for those, as well?
I have personal knowledge that the optical block problems arise with Sony's original lamps--from my own TV, and from communications with many others who have had the problem. Thus, I would suspiciously view any posts from ovadoggvo and Steve Jones, if they are even separate people, as being advertisements. |
New member Username: Antho
Post Number: 8
Registered: Feb-08
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 01:58 pm: |
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Hey Folks...thanks again to all of you who have offered suggestions, insight, and commiseration regarding our common plight.
I was contacted by a Sony representative approximately three weeks ago and was told Sony had agreed to replace the optical block in my KDFE42A10. This offer did not come through normal channels and I am not able to elaborate further on the details. Sony agreed to cover replacement parts and the labor to install; they would not reimburse for my initial Qserv service call to diagnose the problem. The repair was performed two weeks ago (it was delayed a few days due to the optical block being back-ordered) and my set now has as good a picture as when new.
That’s the good news--the bad is that all rear-pro sets that use a thermal management system similar to those employed in the KDFEs will suffer failures similar to the one that plagued my set. What’s worse, the repaired sets will be prone to the same failures at some point in the future.
I’m sure there can be other reasons for failure in this (and similar) optical blocks but the problem in my set was caused by excessive heat. There are two fans in the TV; an “external” which pulls cool air across the lamp assembly and exhausts the air at the rear of the set and an “internal” which is mounted to the optical block assembly. The exhaust of the internal fan appeared to be routed toward the same exhaust route as the external fan, but I was not able to verify this. I was looking over the shoulder of the repair tech and trying to stay out of his way. I wish I’d taken photos…
The external fan is of the type commonly used in PCs and is not prone to clogging; this fan on my set had minimal dust accumulation. The internal fan is a centrifugal/”squirrel cage” type fan with many closely set blades and is very prone to dust accumulation. The internal fan in my set was about 75% clogged. This clogged fan led to the overheating of the LCD panel(s) and caused the yellow/brown discoloration in the center of my screen and the blue/purple darkening at the corners of my screen. There is also an internal filter that is part of the optical block assembly and it had a moderate accumulation of dust but did not appear to be clogged, though any dust accumulation impedes airflow. The filter appeared to be permanently mounted to the optical block and thus non-replaceable.
The blades of the internal fan were made of a plastic/resin compound that seemed to be really attractive to dust. I don’t know if this is inherent in the material used for the fan blades or a result of the fan building an electrical charge as it spins that attracts dust.
Since this fan is not an actual part of the optical block the tech cleaned the dust from it and reused it. It is my opinion that this $5 part is at the heart of the optical block problem. This fan will clog with dust through normal use of the set and there is no acceptable way to clean or service it. The only way to access this fan on the KDFEs is to remove every module in the TV to gain access to the optical block, remove the optical block, and then remove the internal fan assembly from the optical block… This is not something that the average purchaser will wish (or should be expected) to undertake and certainly not something that the set owner should spend $100 on every six months or so for a tech to clean the fan to assure that their $2000 TV will not overheat and require a $1000+ repair….
For the record, I’m pretty diligent when it comes to maintaining my electronics. I routinely clean the set (and all my A/V equipment) by vacuuming dust from the exterior surfaces and vents to keep dust out of them. No one smokes in my home, we don’t burn candles or incense, I use good quality AC/Furnace filters and change them regularly, and I have several electrostatic air filters around the house. In other words the TV has been in a relatively clean environment throughout its service life. This however has not seemed to make any difference; my set failed at 21 months which seems typical of the average 2 year failure window.
I plan to bring this information to the attention of the Sony ERC and will seek replacement of my set with a non rear-projection unit. The design of these rear-pro sets is flawed and we as consumers who purchased the Sony brand based largely on its reputation for reliability should not be footing the bill for Sony’s poor engineering and design.
I also question the seemingly random repairs of some owner’s sets while others owners are left out in the cold. I am grateful to all of the individuals at Sony who interceded on my behalf and expedited the repair of my set. My further pursuit of this issue in not intended to denigrate your good work in any way.
Anthony Henderson
PS-- My set has always been connected to an UPS with line conditioning and surge suppression. The UPS is in place to prevent the set from being left with a hot bulb in the event of a power outage. Also, I am still on my original factory bulb so that should not have been a contributing factor in the excessive heat.
FWIW--The tech who repaired my set suggested that I enable the “high altitude” option in settings. He told me that this setting caused the fans to operate at slightly higher RPM and caused them to run a little longer after turning the TV off. If true, using this setting might delay the onset of problems for a time. I have not tried in any way verify that this setting does what I was told it would do and am passing it along with that caveat. |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 57
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 02:09 pm: |
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L. Zeigler,
Your problem is almost certainly in the optical block--either heat-induced damage or dust. If you got an Event Number from Sony support, I would ensure that you have the name of the rep that promised to cover the diagnostic and repair fees, along with any written promise they are willing to provide you. Unfortunately, your model does not have extended coverage for optical block issues--at least not yet. So, it is highly unpredictable what Sony might do, even if they gave you a verbal promise. |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 58
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 02:20 pm: |
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Anthony,
Thanks for your post. You may be interested in checking out my web site on Sony optical block problems. It includes a bunch of pictures that show the cooling path, including the centrifugal fan to which you referred (see the link to the optical block replacement page for the most detailed pictures). |
New member Username: Antho
Post Number: 9
Registered: Feb-08
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 02:58 pm: |
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Steve,
Thanks, those photos were helpful. The design of the optical block has been changed in the KDFEs. Lamp placement and lamp driver board have been relocated. The OB fan looks similar as does the LCD arrangement and basic configuration of the OB. The OB housing on the KDFEs is 100% plastic and more self-contained, I don't remember any metal gratings or brackets attached to the OB housing. Filter placement is different (if that is a filter to the right of the projection lens in your photo) and of a different type. The filter on the KDFEs is a rectangular pleated filter mounted in the grey plastic to the right of and on the same plane as the LCD opening in your photo if memory serves correctly.
Do you have any knowledge of the function of the "high altitude" setting found on the KDFEs (and other?) rear-pros? The tech's description sounds likely but would like to verify the info with another source.
Thanks,
Anthony Henderson |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 59
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 03:28 pm: |
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My understanding of the high altitude setting is similar to yours--that it causes the fan to run faster and, potentially, longer after power off. I guess these should be easy to test. I have heard that it is noticeably louder at the higher RPM setting, though. |
New member Username: Wheless4979
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 05:37 pm: |
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My TV developed the blue blob even though it only had Sony lamps in it. I think the TV is like a set of tires - some people get more mileage depending on how much they use it. I do think the problems are heat related and apparently, stem from a design defect. |
Silver Member Username: Ovadoggvo
Post Number: 122
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 02:05 am: |
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Steve Linke,
I understand your frustration with your TV set to an extent that you have made a nice pictured diagram of all of it's components and what you may think the source of the problem is... I congradulate you on your great work, but please don't badger me with false accusations. I encourage you to read my posts before you set out to crush me on a personal level. All 117 of my posts are helpful to the people within these forums. Last I checked, I am one of the very few service techs that actually posts here to help individuals with their DLP problems rather than be bitter over my Sony set.
The number of people that come to this forum and post there problems has increased greatly and I encourage people to post questions on which I can take my personal time to help and answer.
I CERTAINLY encourage people to replace their TV parts with originals rather than "aftermarket". Philips is the originator of the UHP Lamp:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UHP_%28lamp%29
It is recomended by EVERY manufacturer that you use an ORIGINAL PRODUCT. This is not to prevent people from saving money, but to prevent people from warranty claims due to misuse or use of unkown and untested 3rd party products. Beleive me, Sony and Samsung are not profiting from your lamps burning out or burning your light optic engine. 10% of the replacement lamps sold to end users are direct from manufacturers, and 90% is from authorized resellers of their parts AND 3rd party manufactures and distributors who are trying to cash in on the endusers misfortune. Companies such as these are selling a lamp such as DNGO $10 below what an original costs, with misrepresentation or deceiving descriptions such as "100% OEM Compatible"... The standard end user has no clue that these lamps are NOT original lamps and may cause damage to their sets and have an inferior lifetime in their TV sets.
POINT BEING: 3RD PARTY PRODUCTS DO NOT HAVE NEARLY THE RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT (R&D) OF AN INNOVATOR WHO CREATED THE PRODUCT, NOR DO THEY HAVE THE QUALITY CONTROL TO BACK THE PRODUCT.
Although they all offer the same warranty and promise the same end result, it is misleading. Philips does not warranty their lamps for 90Days because they should blow in 95 days, rather, they warranty it for a limited time to prevent abuse of their warranty. We all know that these lamps are to last 2-3 years in an average household use. When your OSRAM or DNGO or APO lamp blows in 5 months, IT'S NOT NORMAL!
A good example of aftermarket "key" products is a vehicle airbag. If your vehicle's airbag is replaced with an aftermarket airbag or one from a different vehicle, it may not react as it should in your vehicle or may have inferior quality and/or unknown circumstances during a collision. Same rule applies here...
Your TV was tested with a Philips brand lamp before it was shipped out to the dealer. There is no gaurantee that it will perform, last, or give the same picture with any other lamp.
That is the point I was making.
As for my experience; I have been working as a technician in a company called USACO Service Corp. in cerritos california for many years. We are one of the biggest service centers in the nation with locations in California, Las Vegas, and New York. We process thousands of TV's a month in just this one location. I have seen and repaired many DLP and LCD projection sets. All of my tips, hints, and knowledge comes from my experience and my education on electronics. I bring these tips to this forum on my free time in order to help the standard end user who does not have the experience or knowledge that I have aqcuired over the years.
I provide helpful information and moneysaving tips. If there is a single user that I have screwed by referring to a "bad" parts dealer, please have them come forward in the forums.
I'm not reffering people to "overpriced" ebay listings of mine promising a better product for more money. Im simply referring people to the best source for their parts. And many times is the manufacturer or a representative of the manufacturer.
Please PM me if you would like to speak off of the forums or if you would like to discuss a problem you have with my helpful hints and refferals.
Thank You! |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 60
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 03:55 am: |
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ovadoggvo,
I think your expertise as a TV technician would be very welcome. However, I have seen no evidence that the blob/haze problem is restricted to "after-market" replacement bulbs. I have been in contact with dozens of people who have had the problem and most of them experienced the problem with their original lamp.
I have also seen no evidence that Sony is contesting the class action lawsuit by claiming that the owners used the wrong lamps. In fact, it is my understanding that the models in question tended to fail the first time under warranty, indicating that the original lamp was in them when they failed. Sony has agreed to settle out of court at this point. They are just waiting for court approval of the settlement for it to become final.
It is also incorrect that Sony will not cover the blob problem. They have extended coverage on many models (unfortunately, not all). And there is no evidence that the extended coverage issued by Sony will not be honored, even if an "after-market" bulb was used.
If you have evidence to the contrary on any of the above points, I would be grateful to receive it, and I could add it to the web site with your permission.
I hope you can understand that when all of this questionable information is mixed in with an advertisement for a specific lamp merchant, it looks a bit fishy. I checked a number of your other posts in eCoustics, and at least 80% contain the same sort of advertisement for the same merchant, so that did not help either. Nor did the companion posts by Steve Jones where he repeatedly seems to pretend to be hearing for the first time about the "after-market" lamp problem and the great service and discount at the recommended merchant. The whole thing takes on the appearance of an infomercial.
All of that said, I agree that it is probably best to go with "certified" lamps, and we both seem to want to help people out by providing information. So, if you have any technician-inspired comments to further clarify these frustrating problems we are all having with our optical blocks, they would be welcome.  And, if you see anything on my separate site that is inaccurate or could be portrayed in a better way, please let me know here or by private message, and I would be happy to consider making a change.
I think the most burning question for me is what improvements have been made on the replacement optical blocks (if any) that will prevent a recurrence of the problems. Another question is what is the frequency of problems you are seeing with TVs that are not on the list of Sony's extended coverage models (e.g., the 2003 Grand WEGAs and the newer 2005-2007 models). |
New member Username: Mike_roberts
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 09:21 am: |
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First off, great forum here! Secondly, sorry my first post is so long. I'm hoping it might help others. I am yet another blue blob/blur victim. I bought a Sony KF-50WE610 in October, 2003. The blue blob first happened after about 18 months. We thankfully bought the 3 year extended service and it was fixed after 2 or 3 attempts. At some point the lamp block and lamp power supply block were replaced. Unfortunately I don't recall what was replaced for the ultimate repair, possibly the optical block mentioned but I'm not sure. The problem has returned and the extended warranty has expired. Thanks to google and this forum, I found out about Sony's extended coverage and made the call.
The Sony rep was aware of the problem, took down my information, got an event number for me and looked up a couple of repair locations . In general, a very favorable experience. I checked out the two service locations. Location "A" appeared to be more of a local company while location "B" was a nationwide service organization. I decided to try location "A" first since it was local.
Upon calling location "A", they said they wouldn't do anything until Sony faxed some paperwork to them. When I mentioned I had no paperwork to fax, just an event number, location "A" insisted they couldn't do anything without the "paperwork". Ok, time to try the nationwide location "B".
Upon calling location "B", I was on hold for almost 10 minutes before someone finally answered. This rep took down all of my information, including the event number and said a tech would call me to discuss the problem and schedule a service call. Within a few hours a tech did call. He asked me to try various things. Based on the results I relayed to him, he said he was convinced my problem would not be covered under Sony's extended warranty. As such he would need a credit card to reserve $195 before he could schedule an appointment. Nothing he asked me to do in my mind convinced me I did not have the problem covered but I'm no expert. He might be right about coverage but I was not anxious to lock up $195 on my credit card so I told him I would explore other options.
I called Sony again and got a different rep. I explained to her what happened and she agreed that neither response form location "A" or "B" was expected. She escalated my call to another rep. This Sony rep was on the same page as me and asked me which company I would prefer she call to straighten things out. I said location "A" since they were local. She got location "A" on the phone while I waited. The Sony rep was able to get location "A" to come out and check our set without me faxing any paperwork. Location "A" does have a diag service charge of $75 but I don't have to pay it until the rep gets here. I might even get that back if Sony covers the repair under their extended warranty.
By this time next week I should know if I get my TV fixed for free. It sure seems like this blue blob I have should be warranty repaired whether caused by the optic block or not. This Sony replaced an old Sony CRT that lasted over 8 years. I was hoping to get at least that duration from the new one. BTW, at least 3 other of these exact models Sonys were bought based on how well mine worked when I first got it. I think they got theirs sometime in 2004 and they haven't experienced this problem yet.
Good luck to all with the "blues" ! |
New member Username: Antho
Post Number: 10
Registered: Feb-08
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| Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
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The KDFE42A10 saga continues...
I spoke too soon; the picture on my set is NOT "as good as new" as I stated a couple of posts back. Last night while trying to determine if the high altitude option functioned as expected I discovered three blue blobs/fingerprints in the bottom left quadrant of my screen. All three are fairly faint; one is about the size of an actual thumbprint. The other two are about half that size.
It seems very likely this is dust contamination resulting from the optical block being swapped out. I haven’t had a chance to connect my laptop and put up a white screen to see if there are any others. I would have probably caught this sooner had I not been out of town most of the time since the repair was done. I do not plan to do anything about this problem until I pursue things further with Sony and the ERC.
Steve, the high altitude setting works as stated. The fan is louder with this option selected but is not that obtrusive. I’d say about 3 dB louder. I am willing to ignore the noise for a little extra peace of mind. The fan run time after shut down seems to be the same.
Anthony Henderson |
New member Username: Wheless4979
Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 10:51 am: |
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As for this issue about the OEM bulb, I was reading the manual for my 50 inch Grand WEGA and it states very clearly that failure to use a genuine Sony replacement bulb might cause the LCD engine to fail. |
Bronze Member Username: Slinke
Post Number: 61
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 01:09 pm: |
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ERROR CORRECTION. My last post should not have referred to 2003 Sony Grand WEGA's not being covered by Sony, as they recently extended coverage for those sets. So, my second question to technician ovadoggvo about the frequency of optical block problems should have been restricted to the newer 2005+ Sony TVs, which now seem to be becoming more prevalent in the problem forums.
So, Mike Roberts, there is no question that your problem should be covered. The fact that your replacement optical block failed with the same problem is a bit disconcerting, though. Hopefully, it was replaced before improvements were made, and that the current replacement blocks are fixed. That was the subject of my other question to the TV technician, although I'm not sure how much they can do to improve cooling. |
Bronze Member Username: Antho
Post Number: 11
Registered: Feb-08
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| Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 02:29 pm: |
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OK, in addition to the blue "fingerprints" the new optical block does not look to be aligned properly. The picture is higher on the left than the right (ie: rotated clockwise) and shows a red/magenta haze across the bottom 1/4 of the screen and a blue haze across the top 1/3 of the screen. Arrows indicate "blue blobs". Sorry for the poor quality of the photo that's the best I could get.
I'm contacting Sony again, will keep everyone posted...
Anthony Henderson |
New member Username: Mats962
Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 11:08 pm: |
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Thought I'd chime in here, since both this forum as well as Steve Linke's website were excellent references for me to find out what was wrong with my KDF50WE655 (bought in Sept'04).
I contacted Sony Support online. They said it was covered and pointed me to a Sony webpage acknowledging the problem. I then contacted a repairshop thru the Sony website. They asked a few questions confirming the blue blob/dot/haze. And then sent a repairman out the following week. The optical block got replaced, and my TV seems fine again (been about a week since it was fixed).
I was a bit concerned since the "Fly-by-night" Internet shop that I had bought the set from was no longer in business, and wasn't so sure that the receipt would be "acceptible". Was a moot point in that all I needed was the model number and serial number (both on the back of the set).
Overall, it was a relatively painless experience for me. Thank you to those of you who "paved the way" and made it a lot easier for those of us now experiencing the blue blob/dot/haze problem. |
New member Username: Mats962
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 11:11 pm: |
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Oh and the repair company that replaced the optical block for my set is called Qualxserv. |
Bronze Member Username: Sjones1
Post Number: 46
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 06:03 pm: |
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Steve Linke,
Steve, don't be paranoid...we're all here to help one another...if you see reviews for a vender, you should take it for what it's worth. When someone goes out of their way to support vender, I think you should stop hear them out. I'm sure for every good review you see on any particular company, you'll see ten negative reviews on a bad company...that's just human nature. We complain a lot more than we praise. Value the praise. If you see a negative review about a car dealership, chances are you will second guess visiting them. If you see positive reviews on a car dealership, chances are, they are a reputable company. You shouldn’t be upset that reputable companies exist!
How often do we see people praising Samsung or Hitachi, or Mitsubishi TVs? . Rarely. How often do we see people on forums tell one another that their JVC lamp lasted 20,000 hours? Rarely, if ever. Does it mean no one has seen more than 5,000 hours out of their JVC TV? Absolutely not…NO.
I can go on, but this isn't the place for this sort of rant. Instead, let's try and clear up what’s really going on (people having problems with their TVs) and end the personal attacks.
Cheers! |
Bronze Member Username: Sjones1
Post Number: 47
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 06:10 pm: |
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Raymond, preciously...Philips will tell you the same thing. The point being, the lamp and the driver as sold to the OEM's as a PAIR. They work together. If you substitute one for the other, you're probably not optimizing... It's as if I bought a Lotus Elise sports car and i substituted the tires with Goodyear brand. Well, we know Goodyear is a good company...they make good tires, but the suspension of that car was NOT designed for those tires! Even if the specs are the same, the tires are different! ...enough of my rant! |
New member Username: Copotay
Post Number: 2
Registered: Feb-08
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| Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 12:28 pm: |
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Hello everyone, another disgruntled KDF50WE655 owner bought in march of 2005. I have been reading all of the post regarding various issues with the tvs. I have recently changed my bulb and also cleaned out the dust from the rear of the television, however did not remove the optical block to clean dust from there, if there is some. Mine suffers from the purple fingerprints all over the screen and yellowish splotches in the middle of the screen: view pictures although it is worse than the pictures can depict:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3451/008wt1.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/954/007ji6.jpg
I have viewed Mr Linkes website which is very informative and has a lot of good informaton. I do realize that "my" anomalies are not covered by the extended warranty for my model according to the sony webpage showing pictures of what they are covering until 12/31/08, however I decided to telephone sony and file a complaint. They have me an E number stating it does sound like the optical block and had me contact the local Authorized Sony repair service. I spoke to the owner of this business and he told me that it did not sound like the actual blue dot problem that Sony is covering and that he would charge me $150.00 for a diagnosis. I told him to hold on and that I did not want to spend this money if it was something that Sony may not cover. I exlplained the problem to him at which time he said it definitely sounds like the optical block. I asked him if it could be dust in the block, he said no.
From there I decided to write the infamous ERC letter providing reciept and pictures. They contacted me two days ago and said they would work with me although it was not the described optical block problem for my model, however I had to have the Authorized Sony repairman diagnose it first and if it is determined to be the OB they would work with me, what that means I am not sure.
So, I called back the local repairman and he will be picking up my TV next week, to bring it to his shop, and diagnose it. I asked him why he had to pick it up and he said there is a "lenghty procedure" they go through to determine it is a fault with the OB, I said ok
Well, sorry to be so long winded but thats my current predicament, and I was wondering if anyone else had the yellow blotches like the ones in the picture along with the purple fingerprints. On a black and white program you can really see the yellowish tint which turns peoples faces yellowish. |
New member Username: Bikerbruce
Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 11:00 pm: |
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Thank you all for the info. Unfortunatley, I read these posts since I have the dreaded green blob on my KF-60WE610. For this model, Sony will replace the OB for blue dots or stars but not green. I have not contacted the ERC but it seems from other's experience that they dig their heels in and won't budge. Any suggestions?
BTW, the set is 3 1/2 years old with the original lamp. |
New member Username: Xdvsx
Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 12:22 am: |
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update on my problem...
I had a tech out last week to replace my optical block, or so I thought. It turned out the work order got mixed up and he just came out to diagnose the TV. He took it apart and cleaned it up, but the purple smudges and green blobs were still there. He said the optical block was bad and that it would cost $1200 for the block and $350 for the install. Luckily, Sony stepped up and decided to cover the service call/parts/labor(Thanks Pete, thanks Pam).
So I got the mix-up about the service call figured out last week and the tech came back today and installed the new block. No more purple smudges, no more green blotches. The picture looks great again.
BTW, I asked the tech if it could've been dust in the optical block, and if it could've been cleaned. He said they're sealed up pretty good, so that wasn't the problem, and that you're not going to fix much by cleaning it. I just figured I'd ask because of all the purple fingerprint problems, and the cleaning procedures attached to them. Take it for what it's worth I guess.
I know he said cleaning the mirror and the lens that projects onto the mirror might help some picture issues, as that was his first step in diagnosing my problem. |
Bronze Member Username: Kevin_conley
Post Number: 20
Registered: Dec-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 06:30 am: |
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Well that doesnt sound promising for my purple marks.
Zeigler, how did you get sony to step up and take care of the cost of repair? |
New member Username: Copotay
Post Number: 3
Registered: Feb-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 04:24 pm: |
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Update, the Authorized Sony Repairman came and picked up the tv today. After looking at it He said it was not the problem as sony is covering, however would run the test procedure and make the determination for the ERC complaint. He did say that from his experience the block is bad from dust accumulation.
He also told me that alot of people have this problem and some people do not notice the problem. He then said that in the last 5 years Sony has really gone down hill. He also said to stay away from the new XBR Flat Panels, he has already picked some up for various reasons. He suggested if he were to buy a new LCD to go with Toshiba. This coming from a Sony repairman. |
New member Username: Newguy73
Post Number: 4
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 05:19 pm: |
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I originally posted a problem with my Sony LCD Projection back in January believing my tv was out of warranty. Luckily for me my BestBuy "performance service plan" was for 3 years and I am still covered.
Today, a technician came out and verified the problem was the optical engine and he will place an order to replace the defective part.
My question is: should I expect the new optical engine to be more reliable? |
Bronze Member Username: Antho
Post Number: 12
Registered: Feb-08
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| Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 03:53 pm: |
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OK, this is really getting old… First, I’d like to say that everyone at Sony has been very professional and personable, particularly the individuals on the ERC that I have spoken to – on with the update…
I contacted Sony on 3/15 regarding the blue blobs on the newly installed optical block and they set up a service call for me with Qserv and a scheduled appointment on 3/20. I called Qserv on 3/19 and was told that the repair tech would contact me by 10am on the 20th to finalize the appointment time. At 11am on the 20th I called Qserve again and was assured that the tech would be calling me within the hour. Four hours and three calls later a very rude customer service rep at Qserv informed me “I never had an appointment on the 20th in the first place”. She rescheduled the appointment for 3/24. (This is now four days of work in the last two months I’ve missed as a result of problems with this TV if anyone besides me is counting…)
The repair tech replaced the optical block again, and | |
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