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Thread: Cable, HD and QAM |
    
Silver Member Username: Cableguy
Somewhere on...
U.S.
Post Number: 869
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 12:24 pm: |
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Robert~ I'm just curious if you are able to pick up the local HD station in question on a different channel allocation? Although the HD station is originating at 114.22, it is quite possible the cable company is putting it out at a different frequency. Check through all of your found channels to see if you can find the channel in question being moved to a different location. I've seen that done to keep channels consistant with channel plans. example: If your local ABC provider is on channel 8, and they are broadcasting their HD channel on 107.22, the cable company may be assigning that to channel 8.1 I've seen that done in the system I work in even though the same channel can be found in both originating location and the newly mapped location. Just because it is not found where they say it is, doesn't mean it isn't there. The FCC clearly states in the clear channels must be restransmitted in the clear, but it doesn't say the station numbers have to stay the same. I'd be interested to know if this is the case in your scenario. |
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Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 16
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 01:57 pm: |
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Cableguy, thanks for responding. The answer to your question is yes and no. In fact it's what started my whole investigation. I know about transmitting on two different frequencies. That's done on the over-the-air broadcasts as well.
Adelphia was transmitting the five major local digital stations all having HD content (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and PBS) on subchannels of 128 and 129. When TWC took over they moved the NBC carrier (channel 5) from 129.1 to 5.1, the ABC affiliate (channel 9) from 128.3 to 9.1, and the PBS affiliate (channel 48) from 128.3 to 48.1 and 48.2. All of which were picked up by my auto scanner. But they dropped (supposedly) the CBS affiliate and the FOX affiliate, coincidentally the two networks that broadcast Sunday HD football. In my attempts to find out what happened to those two digital stations I was answered with statements like "you shouldn't be getting any of those without our box" and "TWC is cleaning house and the other 3 will probably disappear soon" (which didn't make sense because why would they move them if they were planning on getting rid of them anyway). But now I find out from someone at one of those two other stations that TWC transmits all but one of our 16 local digital subchannels in the clear, on these other frequencies (some of which you would never find if you tried punching numbers for a week). I was quite happy when I tried them all and they all worked -meaning I can disconnect my antenna totally. But I am very puzzled on how and why they aren't detected by my (or anyone's) QAM channel scanner. AND I am quite angry at the secrecy/stupidity of the TWC employees. Can you give me an answer? |
Silver Member Username: Cableguy
Somewhere on...
U.S.
Post Number: 871
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 09:49 am: |
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Robert~ thanks for the feedback although I'm not sure as to why they are able to viewed when dialed directly and not available when scanned?? I've never seen that unless they are hidden. For what it's worth you can always contact your local cable commission to find out what they should be or shouldn't be passing to you in the clear. I was thinking it might be something to do with the Sinclair broadcast group issue, but that deals with retransmission consent and if they don't have consent you wouldn't be able to see the channels either way? See what the cable commission has to say about it and please update the group...thanx |
New member Username: Janeortom
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 11:25 am: |
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I have Comcast basic cable in West Palm Beach, FL. As I shop for a HDTV, what kind of tuner do I need to get HD without a set top box? Is QAM or a CableCard ready-slot important? |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 17
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 02:58 pm: |
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Your situation is a lot like mine. I have basic cable service (still pay over $50/mo) with what was Adelphia and is now Time Warner. The answer to your question all depends on what your cable company transmits in the clear (unencrypted) and what you want. If you don't want to upgrade to digital cable service, a QAM tuner will only show whatever subchannels Comcast transmits unencrypted. Hopefully that includes at least some of your local broadcast digital/HD channels. I'm trying to find out from my local cable commission what local channels, if any, TWC is required to transmit/retransmit unencrypted. Use of a cable card requires you to upgrade your cable service to digital cable. Even then, they will probably try to talk you out of using the cable card so you can rent one of their nice cable boxes. After all, that's their mission...push the digital cable box. |
Silver Member Username: Cableguy
Somewhere on...
U.S.
Post Number: 872
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 03:37 pm: |
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Robert, you don't need digital service to receive HD local channels with a CableCARD. I have quite a few people who have the card with standard service. You would need digital service to receive certain stations like TNT or Discovery, or TWC's gold package to get ESPN HD and the HDNET and INHD channels, I'm still trying to figure out which local channels they are not passing through in the clear? Hopefully the cable commission will be able to answer your question and then we'll both know. Keep the faith |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 18
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 07:40 pm: |
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What's the point in getting a cable card if you don't get digital service? Maybe it didn't come out right, but that's all I meant. |
Silver Member Username: Cableguy
Somewhere on...
U.S.
Post Number: 873
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 07:50 am: |
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I've never understood why somebody would get a card if they only have standard service, the only logical reason I can come up with is that they want the channel map to be the same as a STB.... Either way, please let us know what the commission say about retransmitted locals for your area. |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 19
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 10:20 am: |
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I don't know. Can you still get premium channels like HBO and Showtime in analog? I haven't had HBO in about 15 years so I don't know. Maybe one could use a cable card to get premium channels without using a cable box and w/o getting digital cable service. Anyway, I'm still waiting on an answer from the Cincinnati cable commission. Looks like I might have to bug them again. |
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New member Username: Hrhrudi
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 04:16 am: |
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hi guys, just spent the last hour reading over this page with great interest and so decided to register and post myself!
Am looking to buy my first HDTV set and intended to get one with a built in ATSC tuner, but now reading this it's opened my eyes to the worth of getting one with a QAm tuner as well so thank you all for that (although it will now cost me more!)
Am not flush with money,so will be trying to find the cheapest 37" lcd with HDMI as well, so will hopefully be able to cancel my rip off TMW basic cable if it all works out. Live in high point, NC, within 1-2 hours of Raleigh, so not sure if that is too far from the major cities to be blessed with a decent delction of Free HD channels, but any experiences from anyone even closer to me would be appreciated, even if I have to get an antenna to reach a little further afield. Also any recommendations for budget 37" lcd's with the specified requirements would also be gratefully received.
One thing i didn't quite get through my thick newbie skull. I was originally under the impression that the ATSC tuner itself gets the local unencrypted HD channels, but now it seems apparent that the QAM tuner is also neccessary for this same thing, right? I know i said i spent ages reading all this, but any further, basic break-down would help me here. Really want to know whether it's worth paying the extra $ for a QAM tuner as well. thanks all...have a good weekend! |
New member Username: Hrhrudi
Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 04:57 am: |
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hi again....forgot to ask something. I know i'm pushing my luck when i've already said that im looking for a budget LCD with all the tuners/inputs, but the extra whistle was that i really wanted to be able to make it networked to be able to stream audio/video back and fourth between my PC. HP have just started doing this with built in NIC, but they start at 2 grand. Was looking more around the 1 grand mark!...doesn't have to have wireless intergrated as such,just a usb port/RJ45 whatever to get connected/ thanks again everyone (assuming someone actually reads this!) |
Gold Member Username: John_s
Columbus,
Ohio
US
Post Number: 1179
Registered: Feb-04
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| Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 05:03 pm: |
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One thing i didn't quite get through my thick newbie skull. I was originally under the impression that the ATSC tuner itself gets the local unencrypted HD channels, but now it seems apparent that the QAM tuner is also neccessary for this same thing, right?
Read my two posts on an old thread:
http://forum.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=2&post=603027#POST603027
The QAM tuner is of value on a cable company line only (no cable box) and then only if that cable provider does not encrypt the HD channels.
There may be others, but here's a nice one that's a little above your budget. It has 2 HDMI, ATSC/QAM, and a 15 pin D-Sub input.
http://www.butterflyphoto.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=LT37X787
http://www.jvc.com/Resources/00/00/81/61.PDF
Regarding your receiving local HD over the air broadcasts go to antennaweb, type in your address and you will get the results.
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx |
New member Username: Hrhrudi
Post Number: 4
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 07:21 pm: |
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I appreciate the links, will read over everything and the TV recommendation. I don't mind spending a little more on a set if it's going to future proof it (and i can get it on interest free payments!)
Did you have any thoughts or knowledge of a similar set incorporating networking capabilities other than the HP set I mention? From what I can see from the market, there seems to be a lot of unknown brands offering the same features and in some cases more for a lot less than the big known ones. Ultimately do you think I would be better off just getting a wireless media player for what I want?....might work out cheaper, but wanted to try and reduce the amount of decks/mess in the lounge!....Have seen quite a few nice 37" that incorparate a slot loading DVD in the side as well which would also be very nice!....I know I'm not asking for a lot, so please keep the suggestions coming...many thanks all (again!) |
New member Username: Hrhrudi
Post Number: 5
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 07:47 pm: |
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P.S. I've seen one or two sets that have had a USB/RJ45 port, but have stated that they are for future firmware upgrades. Do you think that means that they automatically contain some sort of hosting ability/the possibility of adding other connectivity? |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 20
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 06:51 pm: |
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Per the head of the Cincinnati cable commission, "there is no requirement for Time Warner or any cable operator to broadcast local digital channels. This is based on FCC law." FCC regulations requiring cable operators to "must carry" local stations when local stations demand "must carry" status, or to enter into retransmission agreements (one or the other is required on local analog broadcasts) do not apply to local digital broadcasts. I believe what this means is that local stations may not assert their "must carry" demands for their digital broadcasts, but may enter into "retransmission agreements" with cable companies to carry them. Apparently the Commission doesn't oversee anything to do with retansmission agreements between local broadcasters and cable companies. Bottom line, I know TWC in Cincinnati is transmitting the in the clear signal for all local digital broadcasts (except for two low power stations). But how they can do that and not have the signals be detected by QAM tuner scanners is still a mystery. |
Bronze Member Username: Wanabtech
Post Number: 47
Registered: Apr-06
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| Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 09:24 pm: |
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So, are you still able to view the channels by entering the numbers from the list you had given to you? |
Gold Member Username: John_s
Columbus,
Ohio
US
Post Number: 1181
Registered: Feb-04
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| Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:07 pm: |
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"So, are you still able to view the channels by entering the numbers from the list you had given to you?"
And if so, is TWC charging extra to see those channels? |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 22
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:10 pm: |
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Yes, that is correct. The channels are there as long as you know the frequencies to enter. Normally on a Sony SXRD, if a channel is hidden, and you enter a valid subchannel number and the subchannel comes in, the subchannel should change from "hidden" to "shown" in the channel guide when the signal is detected. But with these subchannels nothing is detected. I even reset the entire TV to it's factory preset condition and ran the initial set-up. These subchannels just can't be detected by the scanner - not only on my set, but two others owned by friends. I was able, however, to store the frequencies in my "favorite channels". But I can't label them. If TWC has no obligation to transmit local digital channels, I guess I should just consider myself lucky. |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 23
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:14 pm: |
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And no, there is no extra charge by TWC. They are transmitted on the same line as their basic analog cable service. |
New member Username: Ticklj
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 04:59 pm: |
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I have found this thread most enlightening and it has answered most of my questions BUT I am confused about where SD digital fits in. I infer that if there is a SD signal the tuner (really tuner+ decompressor) will build it properly and the HD display will show a degraded signal. An SD display will do its thing. As I understand it at some point analog signals will cease. Will stations now broadcast SD on some sub-channel or will the "compatability box" take the HD and display it in SD on the old sets?
Why do I ask thes questions? I have little interest in HD so if I buy a SD digital set with all the tuner things what signals will I not be able to get. Say NBC. For now I would see the analog but when that ceases will there be a substitute or can I get the HD signal in a degraded display. |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 24
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
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I'm no expert, but this is how I understand it. Right now, analog, standard definition digital, and high definition digital signals are being broadcast over the air and through cable systems. For cable, they all go over the same cable into your house. If you have a TV with an ATSC tuner (or similar set top box) you can receive analog cable signals and all over the air broadcast signals (assuming your antenna picks them up), whether SD, ED, or HD, and these will be displayed at whatever resolution your TV allows. All digital set top boxes can output analog signals even if they are received as digital. What cable companies call "digital cable" is really only partially digital. All of your basic cable stations are still analog. Most TVs out there in homes and hotels, etc. are still analog. If you have a TV with an ATSC/QAM tuner you can receive analog, SD, ED, and HD signals over the air and over a cable. These would also display at whatever resolution your TV will allow. So if you have a TV that can receive digital signals but can only display at SD resolution, analog channels will be displayed like ordinary analog channels, and digital signals, whether SD, ED, or HD will be displayed in SD. Eventually the analog signals will go away, but that is probably still years away. Remember years ago when cable first started, everyone needed a set top box. Then TV manufacturers started including "cable ready" tuners in TVs. Today you can't find a TV that doesn't receive basic analog cable. The same thing is happening with digital cable. Some time in the not-to-distant future, you won't be able to get a TV that doesn't have a digital cable ready tuner in it. And then cable companies will gradually drop their analog service, and cable companies will gradually stop pushing their "must have" digital cable boxes. My question is, can you even get an SD or ED TV with an ATSC/QAM tuner? Now let's hear from one of the experts here, because like I said, I'm no expert. |
Silver Member Username: Formerly_fx
Dallas,
Tx
Post Number: 193
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
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"My question is, can you even
get an SD or ED TV with an ATSC/QAM tuner?"
No, otherwise it would become an HD TV/monitor.
xvxvxvx |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 25
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 02:03 pm: |
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You lost me there, Scooby. If it had an ATSC/QAM tuner, it wouldn't be a monitor (doesn't 'monitor' mean it doesn't have a tuner?). And if it was only SD or ED it wouldn't display HD. I would think it would be quite possible to have an SD or ED TV with a ATSC/QAM tuner. I just don't know if they put those in non-HD TVs. |
New member Username: Ticklj
Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 03:26 pm: |
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The postings were most helpful. However there remains some confusion on my part. This may be due to my being a pre-alzheimer case or because big (in the sense of covering a large area) words and abreviations are being used. So let me take the opportunity phrase my confusion in smaller units. I will restrict the use of SD to refer to 4xx scan lines and HD to 5xx(?) lines this being independent of digital or analog.
As I see it the system is divided into 3 units, signal source, tuner (really + decompressor) and display.
The signal is received say by cable and is fed to the tuner part of the tuner. In the "dtv" case (never mind HD or SD). A sub-channel is selected and the result is demodulated to produce a digital ie bits. This is expanded ie de-mpeg-ed to produce the sequence of digitally represented images. Now suppose the display system was a CRT.
the sequence of digitally described images must be transformed into the usual "analog" start and stop pules and all that good stuff to make the display on the CRT face. I guess this is done in the "tuner" but maybe in the display.
If the signal was that of an SD transmission ie 4xx lines then this could be displayed properly on an NTSC tv set. If one had an HD CRT then I would assume that is was capable of displaying the SD images properly. So far this is sort of obvious.
Now suppose the images in the signal were HD (5xx lines etc) and the CRT was capable of displaying 5xx lines and there would be no complication.
But if the CRT was capable of only displaying 4xx lines are the current systems capable of generating a degraded image or is the the duty of the "box" which will come into being when
"analog" signals cease
The situation with LCD is a bit more complex and has to do with whether an "analog" or "digital"
coded image is being sent to the display.
I have to disagree with scooby doo. If one is in the world of digital tv that is mpeg compressed then one would need ATSC/QAM stuff to rebuild a displayable signal irregardless of the number of scan lines. Whether the current stuff does this I do not know but the cable is full of "DTV" which is not HD and could be displayed on a SD monitor. |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 26
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 04:23 pm: |
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Sorry Leo, but you really lost me on that. I don't think you'll find a set that has a digital tuner in it that can't display a digital picture. And if you're using a digital set top box and feeding it to a TV that cannot display a digital picture you would have to use the analog outputs of the set top box. I mean why would you want a TV with a state of the art tuner and a 1980's display? I admit, I haven't looked at CRTs lately, so I might be totally wrong. |
Silver Member Username: Formerly_fx
Dallas,
Tx
Post Number: 194
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 08:42 pm: |
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" You lost me there, Scooby. If it had an ATSC/QAM tuner, it wouldn't be a monitor (doesn't 'monitor' mean it doesn't have a tuner?). "
Boy, so much effort for so little success. Yes as you worded your statement you are correct but if I had left off the "/monitor" portion som onme els woould have chimed in with, " But how about a monitor? They will display an HD input". I just can't win for losing.
xvxvxvx |
Silver Member Username: Formerly_fx
Dallas,
Tx
Post Number: 196
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 08:46 pm: |
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"I have to disagree with scooby doo "
That is your perogative but you would nearly always be incorrect if you do. If I could understanf your incomprehensible post I would attempt to clarify further.
xvxvxvx |
New member Username: Gggplaya
Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 02:45 am: |
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Actually Robert Hay, yes you are incorrect. The FCC wants analog broadcasting over the air to stop in 2009. So they are working HD tuners into all tv's with tuners built in. So far in 2006 they made it so all tv's 25" and up are required to have ATSC tuners built in if they have tuners at all.
I know for sure that all toshiba tv's 25" and up have QAM tuners. The analog sets(SD) only display a DVD 480i quality image. But it still looks good. A 27" toshiba SD analog tube with atsc/qam built in will run you about $280. |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 27
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Saturday, December 23, 2006 - 12:19 pm: |
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I guess that makes sense. And I suppose right now since analog TVs are still quite a bit cheeper there still might be a small market for them. But as HD TVs come down in price, I would think such animals will become extinct. I wonder how many people realize that all of those small screen portable TVs they are buying will require a converter box in 2009. |
New member Username: Cologuy
Loveland,
CO
USA
Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 01:06 am: |
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Cableguy, a question for you please -
I'm new to this forum, so please bear with me. I have a Sony KD-30XS955 TV, which is DCR with an ATSC/QAM tuner, as well as an NTSC tuner. I have basic Comcast cable (channels 2-99) and have no trouble receiving my local channels in HD (on digital subchannels) with no cable box.
I am considering a Cable Card because I thought it would allow me to receive the remainder of my basic channels (2-99) digitally.
However, upon reading your comment of Nov, 19 which said:
"I've never understood why somebody would get a card if they only have standard service, the only logical reason I can come up with is that they want the channel map to be the same as a STB."
I am having second thoughts about getting a Cable Card. Upon looking up a description of Cable Cards in Wikipedia, I found the following:
"CableCARD is a plug in card approximately the size of a credit card that allows consumers to view and record digital cable on televisions, digital video recorders, and personal computers without the use of other equipment provided by a cable company."
Please help a newbie! Will a cable card and a DCR TV allow me to receive my present analog channels as digital channels?
Thank you very much for your patience and help.
ColoGuy |
New member Username: Amos
Post Number: 1
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 05:14 pm: |
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I have read through all "Cable, HD and QAM" posts today after discovering that our new Sony KDL-V32XBR1 can receive HD versions of ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc. without a cablecard or box. We are considering canceling our appointment with Comcast for a cablecard installation, since we are getting all we need by just plugging in the cable connection. From what I have read, it sounds like we could have the stations one day and they could be gone the next, and the only recourse we would have is to rent a box or cablecard to get the stations back. Is this correct?
If we had any sense that these HD stations were there to stay (without using a cablecard of box), I wondered if it is possible to buy an external QAM tuner for my older two HDTVs (that currently require a box to receive HDTV) and not pay Comcast for the privilege of renting their boxes? Or would that be foolish since we are receiving these channels at the whim of Comcast right now? Thanks. |
Bronze Member Username: Wanabtech
Post Number: 52
Registered: Apr-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 06:15 pm: |
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First: The purpose of a cable card is to provide you with an alternative to a box rental for those digital and high definition channels, that are provided to customers for a fee. The card is nothing more than a "language interpreter" if you will. It receives authorization from a providers billing system informing the card of what paid services a customer subscribes to. Then, it decodes those channels. It has no ability to "improve" the quality of the picture. It will channel map the unencoded HD channels. In other words in our area, 704 is NBCHD. If no card is present the tv will read the channel as (not sure exactly, just an example) 103.1. The card tells the tv its 704. It's a rough explanation, however the end result is as described.
Second: the local HD channels are passed on without being encoded. That is why you're able to receive them. |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 28
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 06:28 pm: |
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I'm anxious to see Cableguy's response to both of these questions. He is surely better qualified than me. But I think the answer to Paul's question is that basic cable is still only analog transmission, and even with a cable box you are still only receiving analog signals. If you subscribed to digital cable you would receive the basic analog channels in addition to the digital channels in whatever package you buy. The digital channels would need a digital cable box or a cable card to unencrypt those channels. The cable card wouldn't do anything to basic analog channels. (And some digital cable boxes actually degrade those analog signals so you are forced to split the signal and view the analog channels through your internal tuner). Now maybe some cable companies transmit their basic cable channels on a digital platform, but TWC and Insight Cable in our area don't.
As for Amos, here has been my experience to date...by FCC regulation, every three years local broadcast stations have the option of invoking their "must carry" rights (which requires cable companies to carry their analog signal in their basic service, but does not include their digital SD and HD broadcasts), or they can opt to enter into retransmission agreements with the cable companies. Since the cable companies want local channels in their service most enter into these kind of agreements. Since there are no regulations on how these agreements are written, most local stations negotiate clauses which require the cable companies to carry the digital broadcasts, in the clear, along with the analog broadcasts, in their basic service. This is why most cable companies do actually send the SD and HD local retransmitted signals over the same wire as their basic cable service (which also carry the encrypted digiotal channels). So you may lose or gain local digital transmissions based on changes in these retransmission agreements. I am happy to say that Time Warner in Cincinnati now carries all of our local digital broadcasts over their basic cable service (with the exception of one low power station). |
New member Username: Amos
Post Number: 2
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 06:59 pm: |
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Thanks Wanabtech. I have no need for any premium stations - the standard stations in HD are what I really want. My concern is that Comcast will start to scramble the HD channels on a whim some day and a QAM tuner will no longer be sufficient. What I would really like is a way to get rid of all my boxes, pay basic cable, buy QAM tuners for the other HD TVs I have that don't have tuners, and just get HD local channels to all TVs. Then I would only have to pay Comcast for basic cable. Is this possible or am I dreaming? ;-)
Robert - thanks for the post. It sounds like there is a decent chance that Comcast will continue to sent the HD channels in the clear, although the actual lineup could change (which I wouldn't mind unless one of the major stations dropped out). I guess I am tired of spending ~$85 a month when all I really want is ABC, NBC, CBS & Fox in HD and would be willing to buy QAM tuners in the short run if it made sense cost-wise. |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 29
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 09:02 pm: |
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I would think that cable companies will continue to carry the local digital channels in their basic service for a while since supposedly in about two years and 51 days from now that's all there will be from the local stations. Don't know how many cable stations will have gone digital by then. Of course, analog cable will eventually go away too. That will be the time to get your cable card. Hopefully, by then digital cable packages might be worth a few dollars more. Until then, I'm like you. I'm perfectly happy with basic analog cable (looks great when upconverted to 1080p via my Sony SXRD), and all of my local channels in HD. |
Bronze Member Username: Wanabtech
Post Number: 54
Registered: Apr-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 09:51 pm: |
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you can go to antennaweb.org to find out just how close you are to local broadcasters and get your antenna for local HD. You input a zip code and it will show distances, directions etc... This is potentially another option for you. |
New member Username: Amos
Post Number: 3
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 09:51 pm: |
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Robert - it would be great if they continue to carry the HD channels unencrypted. I looked up external QAM tuners and they are not that prevalent (and some are quite pricey). Here is one http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/tv%7Caudio%7Cvideo_digital%20video__LST- 4200A.jhtml but I think this may be discontinued. Ideally any QAM tuner would have a cablecard slot in case I ever need to unencrypt channels, but that may be too much to ask. I'll keep researching… |
New member Username: Amos
Post Number: 4
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 09:57 pm: |
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Hi Wanabtech - I did this earlier today when I was reading the posts and unfortunately I would have to take up reading at night. Thanks though! |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 30
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 11:33 pm: |
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I've wasted a lot of money this past year, and a lot of time trying to get antennas to pull in all of the local digital stations and I only live about 5 miles from downtown Cincinnati. Even when I could get some to come in I would have to get up and fiddle with the stupid thing if I changed a channel. Receiving the HD channels over the cable (with only basic $53/mo service) is great. No boxes, no cable card, no antenna. I've had basic cable for over 25 years and I see no reason to spend more for a few more lousy channels. |
New member Username: Cologuy
Loveland,
CO
USA
Post Number: 2
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 02:03 pm: |
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Gentleman -
Thank you all for responding to my "newbie" question as to whether a Cable Card would magically transform my basic analog channels to digital.
I think I will stay where I am and enjoy the local HD channels I now receive without a CC or STB, and keep my fingers crossed that they continue to be "in the clear" and Comcast continues to let us enjoy them.
Thanks again.
ColoGuy |
New member Username: Amos
Post Number: 5
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 12:44 pm: |
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Hi all,
Having discovered that my Sony TV doesn't require a cablecard to receive the HDTV stations via Comcast, I am thinking of going to Basic Cable ($12.50/mo) and buying this QAM tuner http://www.tvantenna.com/products/dtv/stb/DTB-H260F.html for my two HD Tvs that don't have QAM tuners. I know I run the risk of the HDTV channels being encrypted but might risk it. Can anyone see a problem with this plan? I recall reading that the digital signal is not filtered so Basic should allow both types of signals to come thru - or have I misunderstood?
Amos |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 31
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 03:00 pm: |
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WOW, only $12.50/month. It seems I've been using the wrong terminology. I have TWC Standard service (channels 2-99), not Basic service (channels 2-24). I'm not even sure TWC in cincinnati offers just a basic cable package. How does that even work? I didn't think they scrambled the analog cable channels any more. How would you NOT pick up standard cable stations like ESPN, HGTV, TNT, etc. with a standard NTSC cable ready tuner? Are there people out there getting standard cable channels while only paying $12.50/mo? Or do they block the standard channels at the pole outside your house? But if you can get a cable line to your house for only $12.50/mo, then it should have the local digital SD and HD transmissions on the same cable for your QAM tuner to receive. |
New member Username: Amos
Post Number: 6
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 03:49 pm: |
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Robert,
I guess the question becomes whether they are turning on the HD signal when you subscribe to digital cable (or blocking it if you don't subscribe) or whether it comes through in the same feed as the analog. I just found the following quote on the Comcast-NE's site http://www.comcast-ne.com/catv_faqs.html.
_Customers with an HD set with a 256 QAM tuner would be able to receive all HD broadcast channels (ie WGBH HD, WBZ HD etc.) without the need of an HD box. The HD box is necessary to receive the non-broadcast HD services (ESPN HD, Discovery HD etc.)._
Since they are being open about this in their FAQs, I'll call their customer service line and ask whether this FAQ is true for Basic cable. If so, I can buy a QAM tuner for one TV and a DVR/QAM tuner for the other TV and replace what I rent from Comcast. I pay ~1K/yr for cable service now, so they payback would be less than a year.
Amos |
Bronze Member Username: Bobbythebeast
Post Number: 33
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 04:24 pm: |
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Yes, all digital signals, both encrypted and in the clear, come over the same cable as the analog feed. So NO, you don't have to subscribe to digital cable to get the local HD signals. So your scenario should work well for you. My question came from when you said you could get basic cable for $12.50/mo. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who only subscribe's to basic service (meaning only the bare minimum to get the cable hooked to your house, (ie. local chan |
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