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Author Thread: 720 vs. 1080i
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New member
Username: Hilltom

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-04
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Can anyone explain to me if it is wise to buy an HDTV that only gets 480, then skips to 1080i. Is 720 necessary, should I really get one that has both, because i have a great deal on one that only gets 1080i. thanks
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xvxvxvx
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Currently no display actually displays more than one native HD resolution. If you purchase a CRT it will natively display 1080i. If you purchase a fixed pixel type display such as DLP LCD LCOS they will display in 720p.

As far as an HDTV that only gets 480 this does not make any sense. please list the exact TV you are considering, manufacturer and model number.

xvxvxvx
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Omaha
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I personally think 720p looks alot smoother when it comes to fast action. You still get flicker with 1080i due to the fact it is interlaced. 720p draws all 720 lines per 1/60th of a second. 1080i only draws every other line (540 lines each pass) per 1/60th of a second. If you want to watch alot of football, 720p is definitly the way to go if you can afford a fixed pixel display (LCD, LCoS, DLP, D-iLA.
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Anonymous
 
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480P picture is ED, not HD. If you have a Progressive scan DVD player, you can get 480P otherwise you have 480i. I bet the TV Tom was talking about is a CRT HDTV that displays HD in 1080i (convert 720P signal to 1080i also) and SD to 480i. 720P is better for fast moving pictures such as sports. But if it is not a big screen, you would hardly notice the difference.
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New member
Username: Hilltom

Post Number: 2
Registered: Sep-04
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Sorry, it doesn't only get 480, it also gets 1080i, and yes, sports is the main reason I want it. It is a CRT Panasonic 34", do they make CRT that will take a 720p, and is it that big of a difference, worth paying alot more for when I can get a good deal on the one that only recieves 1080i. Is the flicker that bad?
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New member
Username: Curbina

Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-05
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How can people say that 720p looks better than 1080i, I have a Sony KD-30XS955 (WEGA Super fine pitch CRT) and every Monday i watch "24" on FOX (720p) and then switch to "CSI:Miami" on CBS (1080i) and CSI looks much, much better than 24, and even the NFL football games on CBS looked better than FOX, even though a lot people say that 720p is better for sports I don't see it, just face it 1920 X 1080 has more resolution lines than 1280 X 720, is as simples as that, even though 1080 lines are interlaced and all you see are 540 lines each field it is still more lines than 720p. 1920 X 1080= 2073600 pixels, 1280 X 720= 921600 pixels, 1920 X 540= 1036800 pixels.
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Silver Member
Username: Dmwiley

Post Number: 168
Registered: Feb-05
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Carlos, people can say that because it depends on the source, the display device and their visual acuity. In some situations, 720p does look better, despite the technical info you provide. I did not know that you could purchase a digital tv that only displays 480. Are you sure about this?
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New member
Username: Vikingknut

Post Number: 10
Registered: Mar-05
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Carlos,

Some of the reason that you may see a better picture with 1080i is that your TV is CRT based. Unlike micro-display technology LCD, DLP, and Plasma, CRTs do not display non-interlaced signals very well. Therefore, for CRT based systems, people tend to prefer 1080i over 720p. In my case (DLP-set), 1080i almost always looks worse than 720p. Now you could argue that having only 720 lines of resolution, of course 720p will look better. It has the same number of lines as your native display and is non-interlaced. However, there is more to it than that. This is my belief (albeit backed by many professional video folks), that even if you had a TV that supports 1080p (which will support both 1080i and 1080p natively), the 720p picture will look better on any program that has even a moderate amount of movement. Sports, for sure, and even most movies. Material that stays pretty static on the screen (beautiful vistas, talking heads, etc.) may look better in 1080i.

Now as I said in the beginning, this will probably not be the case for those watching CRT based HDTV's.
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frankie nj
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I just bought a Mitsubishi WD-52327 DLP TV. The only HDTV format it supports is 1080i. It says in the manual that a 720p signal must be converted by the DTV receiver to be displayed by the tv. I am getting Comcast HDTV service but I'm unsure if the box is capable of the conversion. Am I screwed? Do I need a special conversion component? Would appreciate some help.
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paulm
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Frankie,

Usually the cable provider's set top box will allow you to switch between resolutions - the DCT5100, for example, can go between 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i.
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Anonymous
 
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I'm kinda' new at this. Why would you want your HDTV to display in 480i or 480P if you have 720 and 1080 as options?
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Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 723
Registered: Jan-05
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It depends on the signal source.

A low-def source will always be 480 regardless of what your TV is capable of. If you send it a junk signal, that's exactly what the TV will output.
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HD Guy
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I have another reason to display 480i or 480p. My Hitachi 57S700 offers 2 modes (16x9 and 16x9 zoom)of display for 720p or 1080i inputs and 5 modes (16x9, 16x9 zoom, 4x3, 4x3 stretch and 4x3 zoom) for 480i/p inputs. I would choose 480p options when watching SDTV material and use the 4x3 mode because I don't like the distorted pictures.
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Rob in Orlando
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Thanks guys, I posted as Anonymous at 11:18 am.

The reason I ask is as follows: my Samsung 32" flat panel LCD HDTV accepts the four resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD set top box from Bright House (Time Warner). In the box's options, I can select the resolutions that my TV can display. However, when I have all four resolutions checked, it seems to flicker and jump a lot when switching from a resolution on one channel to a different resolution on another channel. It flickers so much, it almost looks like it is damaging the display. Once the new channel comes up everything is fine. I can tell by the box that it does switch to match the resolution that the channel is broadcast in unless I uncheck one of the resolutions.

What is my strategy here? Should I just select 1080i and not select the other 3 resolutioins, or should I select all four and just deal with the momentary jumping and flickering? Maybe just select 1080i and 720p? Are there pros and cons?

Thanks for reading, I'm sure I don't sound very technical. I appreciate any help.
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Silver Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 730
Registered: Jan-05
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Rob.......

yes, your best bet is to leave it on one mode as default rather than have your TV detect and change resolutions all the time.

Set it at either 1080 or 720, and just leave it that way.(whichever mode you prefer)
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Jetson
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Rob:

I have the Scientific Atlanta 3250HD, and I have set my T.V. to accept the 1080i and 480P (because my t.v. won't display 720P).

In your case i would set the T.V. to accept the 1080i, 720P, and the 480P. This will allow you to watch your HD Channels in the mode that they are broadcast in (i.e. Your T.V. won't upconvert ESPN HD to 1080i).

Also, Your Non-HD "DIGITAL" channels are broadcast in 480P, and your analog signals can be converted to 480P from 480i, so choosing 480i as an option is worthless. The 480P picture of your analog channels will look much better than the 480i..

Bottom line, try setting your STB to broadcasat in 1080i, 720P, and 480P, and see how that works. You will still get the flicker, but it is only a brief second, and you probably don't jump from back and forth from HD to Non HD.

Hint: Make sure you select 480P "standard" or "4:3". As these channels are broadcast in 4:3 mode and not 16:9, your t.v. will automatically stretch the picture to fit your t.v. (assuming you have a 16:9 t.v.) This allows you to use the "aspect" button on your t.v. remote to change the screen size.

If you choose 480P widescreen, it will broadcast your HD channels in 480P, at least it did on my t.v. I learned this the hard way.
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Troy Heagy
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"CRTs do not display non-interlaced signals very well."

.

Funny. My CRT seems to display my non-interlaced computer screen just fine. (I think your statement is in error.)
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Rob in Orlando
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Jetson:

I really appreciate you and Paul's help. It is great to talk to people who understand all this stuff! Most of the time, I feel like I'm educating Bright House.

Based on what you both said, I have it set to 720P and 1080i only. I actually do a lot of jumping back and forth between HD and non-HD, so this helps prevent the constant flickering. What if anything am I losing by not having 480P selected?

Thanks again!
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fx
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"Funny. My CRT seems to display my non-interlaced computer screen just fine."

Actually it doesn't at all. Your CRT display downscales the progressive signal, interlaces it and then displays it in an interlaced format.

xvxvxvx
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Troy Heagy
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Nonsense.

My Magnavox computer monitor (CRT) displays up to 1600 x 1280 resolution, progressive scan. And it looks beautiful. "CRTs do not display non-interlaced signals very well," is a false statement.

troy
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HD Guy
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Although most CRT based HDTV's have 1080i as native, they CAN display progressive format (e.g., 480P, or similar for DVD).
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Jetson
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Rob:

By not selecting 480P, you lose the ability to display the picture in its native format. This results in reduced viewing quality. My T.V. (Panasonic 47WX53)automatically "fills" the screen when watching a non-HD channel. If you only select 1080i and 720P, you will have to use your comcast remote to "stretch" the picture when watching Non-HD channels. Usually a T.V. does a better job of filling the screen then a STB can stretch the screen to remove the bars on the side.

I would try it each way for about two weeks and make a decision based on what works best for you. Remember it takes time for your eyes to adjust to your t.v. after you make adjustments, so give it some time.
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Silver Member
Username: Joe_c

Oakwood, Ga

Post Number: 230
Registered: Mar-05
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dale you prefer 720p over 1080?
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Anonymous
 
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Question, if anybody can help:

I have Panasonic 60" LCD HDTV monitor
Comcast HD box going dvi out to hdmi in
I can choose one setting to output from the box; should I choose 720p or 1080i?
When I choose 720p, my HD programs are in 720p
when I choose 1080i, my hd programs are 1080i
Should I just manually switch them all the time; like for sports..etc..
sorry if I ask silly question
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RoyBrown
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"I have Panasonic 60" LCD HDTV monitor"
Your TV is probably 720p native, so you should probably select 720p. This way you will see 720p channels natively. For 1080i, the selection really just affects which device does the conversion from 1080i to 720p. If you select 1080i, the TV does the conversion. If you select 720p, the cable box does the conversion. The output quality will depend on which device has the better scaler. Changing selections based on channel sounds like a pain, so I'd be inclined to leave it on 720p all the time unless you notice a significant difference in quality.

720p and 1080i are pretty close in native quality as far as I can tell, but both will look worse coverted than the other displayed natively. There is no reason that a CRT can't display 720p and 1080i natively like computer monitors, but my understanding is that most HD CRT televisions display 1080i native and convert 720p to 1080i or 480p. This might explain Carlos's issue.
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New member
Username: Greggiebuffet

Alpharetta, Ga
USA

Post Number: 1
Registered: May-05
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I have the Sony KP-46WT500 and am concerned that some of the 720 hdtv signals are being downloaded to 480p, since only 1080 input is viewed at 1080.. Does this mean I'm not getting true HDTV? I have Comcast with their Motorola two tuner hdtv/DVR. Any suggestions as to what I should do or be looking for?
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fx
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Set the internal settings of your DCT-6412 to output 1080i if that is what you truly believe. However if it is like most Sony CRT's it will not even accept a 720p input, much less downconvert it to 480p.

You are probably confusing an SD broadcast on a channel that ocassionally transmits an HD signal. Be sure to understand that not all programming is broadcast in HD even if your channel says it is the HD channel.

xvxvxvx
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gEmRN
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I have a panasonic pt50LC13 50" hdtv set. it does 480p, 720p, 786p (or something like that), and 1080i. I just want the BEST picture and sound.

1. which res is the BEST? 1080i is interlaced isn't it? so shouldn't it be not as good?

2. i just bought a hi-def dvd player 1 month ago that has a dvr cable... will this be obsolete soon, i heard there will be HDDVD technology by toshiba and Blu-Ray by Sony... will i need to get a new dvd player or will the one i have be able to play the new format?

3. sometimes when i watch normal tv (not hi-def channels) the show says "WIDESCREEN: BROADCAST IN HI DEFINITION WHERE AVAILABLE" but on my tv the show looks just as shitty as the rest of the shows. why?
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New member
Username: Phialpha

North Canton, OH

Post Number: 4
Registered: Apr-05
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gEmRN,
1) The 720 vs. 1080 argument just never dies. There are fanboys who will argue until they are blue in the face for each format, but does it really matter? Just be glad you have HD. Seriously, watch a game in SD and and you'll wonder how you ever enjoyed TV before HD. Your set has a native resolution of 1280 x 720 which means any HD signal you feed it will look great. End of story. It's inputs accept 480/720/1080 signals, and it converts everything to 720p. Is 1080i better? Is 720p better? It's HD- don't worry about the rest!

2) Your DVD player probably converts the DVD 480p signal to a higher resolution format by way of a built in line doubler or scaler. Yes, there are 2 new DVD formats on the way, both with higher capacity and therefore more info able to be displayed. There are rumors of combining both standards into 1 (which would be better for consumers) but as of Thursday May 19th, 2:15 PM EST, there are 2 formats. Yes, it will probably be a rehash of BetaMAX/VHS for the consumer market. Your DVD player will not be able to play bluRay/HD-DVD discs, unless these discs are encoded with today's DVD standard. HD-DVD might be backwards compatible, but your DVD player will not be able to decode the full HD-DVD standard.

3) Tell us more about your cable/satellite system. What market (city) are you in? Are you using an HD set top box? Are you using cableCARD? Are you tuning over the air? Are you tuned to the SD channel when there is an HD channel available? These are things we need to know.
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iworkforcable
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greg may 11 - not many poeple broadcast in 720 the box will display it if its coming to u in that format like fox hd - look on the back of your t.v it sometimes says what it supports
like 1080/480 which means no 720 is supported
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Ron JL
Unregistered guest
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Just to thank everyone for this great discussion, you have solved several of my problems just from reading here. RJL...
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Anonymous
 
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I have a computer monitor that displays up to 2048x1536 @ 85Hz and that is progressive scan. the level of detail in games is great. I think alot of people think crt's cant do progressive scan, because they remember their older standard scan tv's. also computer monitors are muti-scan and non native meaning no matter what resolution you set it at you still get a clean picture.

A few questions though.

1. Are Crt based Hdtv's multi-scan also, and do they have the ability to play any-everything at its native res, or do they force (upconvert/downconvert) everything to a preferred native res like lcd's, dlp's,and plasma's have to?

2. I have notice a few large 22"Crt monitors have DVI inputs now (IBM), does this allow for a clearer picture at high res (something the VGA interface had trouble with).

3.Where are the Slim CRT computer/HDTV monitors, where any ever announced?

4. Why are the resolutions on Crt based and LCD based HDTV's so much lower than their computer based monitor brothers. 1920x1200P or more compared to 1400x768P scan or less, respectively? I have never understood that, As I want to buy one 32-34 with ful 1920x1200P or better.

5. Can A computer monitor with just a DVI input (Apple CInema 30", 23", or IBM CRT DVI 22" be used to recieve HDTV through cable satelite or over the air?
And How?

Thanks
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Anonymous
 
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i was just playing around with my 15" sony crt monitor and radeon 9200 pci videocard on an old computer and low and behold this small 13.8 viewable .25 trinitron monitor shows 1920 by 1080 progressive at 60 HZ crystal clear. WOW. unfortunately the computer is to slow to show any hdtv content, but i never new it could do that. the box said either 1028x768 or 1280x1024 MAX.
cool. wish i had a powerful computer to see how full HDTV would look on such a small display.
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New member
Username: Phialpha

North Canton, OH

Post Number: 7
Registered: Apr-05
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Anonymous, 5/30/05, 2:12 AM,
5. Can A computer monitor with just a DVI input (Apple CInema 30", 23", or IBM CRT DVI 22" be used to recieve HDTV?
Yes. You can use a cable box or a satellite receiver or a HDTV tuner with a DVI output and plug it into the display.
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fx
Unregistered guest
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To Anonymous AKA RT Joby,

Still searching for that unicorn CRT?

xvxvxvx
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New member
Username: Avernus

Post Number: 3
Registered: Jul-05
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I noticed something funny...

I think 720p is technically a "better picture"...

I know this may sound silly, but when I went into my menu options on my Comcast HD-STB, I scrolled through the 480i, 480p, 1080i and 720p...

And they technically scroll through settings from lowest to highest...and 720p was the last option..

As I said, it may sound simple...and it doesn't matter...both display amazing quality in HD...but it's definately food for thought for the people who like to argue over this type of stuff lol
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Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1670
Registered: Jan-05
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Actually, TVs are either or..........not both. Regardless of available cablebox settings, your TV will only convert one or the other based on the type of technology built into your specific TV.
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New member
Username: Avernus

Post Number: 4
Registered: Jul-05
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"Actually, TVs are either or..........not both. Regardless of available cablebox settings, your TV will only convert one or the other based on the type of technology built into your specific TV."

My TV displays 720p and 1080i, pending on which setting I select on my cable box...

when I hit "display" on my TV and had 1080i on my box, the display said 1080i | 16:9 ... now, since I changed to 720p, it said 720p | 16:9

and the manual that came with the TV says it can do both of the settings...

I'm not sure if you mean it can only display one at a time...because that's obvious(at least to me *shrugs*) or if you mean that TV's usually only have 720p or 1080i settings and not allow the option...
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Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1673
Registered: Jan-05
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What is your TV Brand and model number?? From what I've seen, TVs are either 720p or 1080i.......not both.

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New member
Username: Avernus

Post Number: 7
Registered: Jul-05
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I swear I already replied to this...

but umm

sony grand wega kdf-42we655
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fx
Unregistered guest
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The Sony Grand Wega kdf-42we655 displays in 788p 100% of the time, period, finished, no other correct answer!!!

It will accept all inputs from 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i and the display will show you what is being input but it always displays 720p (actually 788p x 1386 but most people call this 720p).

xvxvxvx

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Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1685
Registered: Jan-05
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I just looked up that model myself.......

It's a 720p model........LOL

AS fx says, it will absolutely NOT convert 1080i.

Sorry, but it's either or. I have yet to see a single TV that uses both technologies.
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Wilson Pickett
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I find that 1080i gives a crisper picture, but when in motion, as in helicopter shots over landscapes, there is blurring and artifacts. I assume my TV just doesn't have the response time.
If it becomes too annoying on certain programs, I will switch to 720p.
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Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1690
Registered: Jan-05
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I found it to be completely the opposite. With 720p, I noticed pixelation during motion sequences and could see lines.(screen door effect). My TV is 1080i, and when I went to my parents over the holidays, it was especially noticable on their 720p TV. While watching the NFL playoffs during the xmas holidays, it was driving me nuts.

I've never ever detected that on my TV.
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Wilson Pickett
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[ ...(actually 788p x 1386 but most people call this 720p)]

fx-

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're confusing signal resolution and screen resolution.
The picture is encoded 720 lines (p); and if your TV display is 788 pixels,
then there is not a one to one match and there is a small distortion effect as the screen must fill itself
proportionately to 788 with only 720 lines of info.

This theory could explain some artifacts.
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fx
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"AS fx says, it will absolutely NOT convert 1080i. "

I did not say that at all. I said it will not display in 1080i, it does indeed convert all inputs to it's native resolution of 720p/788p.

xvxvxvx
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fx
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"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're confusing signal resolution and screen resolution. "

OK, you are wrong! I have not confused anything at all. The screen resolution is what is displayed no matter the input. All inputs to this display are converted with potential scaling artifacts.

What I wrote is that some people call all LCD and DLP displays 720p although none of them in reality are, they are mostly 768p or 788p displays and some scaling occurs at all times.

xvxvxvx
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Gabriel
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Hi, I recently purchased a Mitsubishi WS-55315 CRT set. I went ahead and gave Comcast a call and they came and installed the Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/HD cable box. I believe my TV only supports 1080i, and I have absolutely no complaint with the picture whatsoever. However, I hooked my DVD up to an S-Video connection, and I have been less than impressed with the picture quality. When I switch outputs to the S-Video input for my DVD, I see that it says the resolution is at 480i. My DVD player is NOT a progressive scan player; if I were to purchase a progressive scan DVD player would it automatically make the picture 480p? I ask b/c I really don't know how to mess with the TV input settings. Any help would be highly appreciated.
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New member
Username: Avernus

Post Number: 8
Registered: Jul-05
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ahaha wow....calm down people

but umm...all I know is that when I toggled between 1080i and 720p on my HD STB, it changed to whatever I selected on my TV when I hit display...

That's all...but it does do 1368x786 or something...I forget what I read yesterday, so yeah...

but wouldn't going to 1080i be possible when it interlaces 540 lines...blending the pictures?...it would just downgrade it without utilizing it's potential...

I'm no expert, I know a thing or two..but I'm still sketchy on this topic...all I knew is what the "display" on my TV said and changed to..

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New member
Username: Avernus

Post Number: 9
Registered: Jul-05
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"Hi, I recently purchased a Mitsubishi WS-55315 CRT set. I went ahead and gave Comcast a call and they came and installed the Motorola Dual Tuner DVR/HD cable box. I believe my TV only supports 1080i, and I have absolutely no complaint with the picture whatsoever. However, I hooked my DVD up to an S-Video connection, and I have been less than impressed with the picture quality. When I switch outputs to the S-Video input for my DVD, I see that it says the resolution is at 480i. My DVD player is NOT a progressive scan player; if I were to purchase a progressive scan DVD player would it automatically make the picture 480p? I ask b/c I really don't know how to mess with the TV input settings. Any help would be highly appreciated. "

you might want to purchase an upconversion DVD player that supports DVI or HDMI, you will feel alot better about your TV when you get the DVD player to match it's standards...

...at least until HD DVD's and Blu-Ray comes out ahah
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Gold Member
Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 1704
Registered: Jan-05
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Gabriel,
Yes....


Get the progressive scan DVD player.
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RR
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Could use some expertise help here: my Projection TV is HDTV Upgradeable; as soon as I connect an HDTV Direct TV Box to it along with the proper dish, I'm good to go. The problem is it will broadcast HDTV Programs in 1080i, but programs broadcast in 720p will not show that way, and will show in 480p instead. My question is this: how much different (or better) is 480p than just a regular broadcast? I'm really doing this for the upcoming NFL season, and have noticed that the games that are National games are all 720p--meaning I will be seeing them @ 480. Is it still much better at 480p than a regular broadcast thereby making it worthwhile to me? Thanks!
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fx
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Dear Donald,

One mor