Mani 2s

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2942
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 07:50 pm:

Nuck was kind enough to let me take his Mani's for an extended in-home test drive.

The bass on the Mani's is actually quite remarkable. For a bookshelf speaker (albeit a very large bookshelf speaker), these things go as low as some subwoofers.

My Mac 6300 gets just a little warm to the touch listening to these at somewhat unreasonable volume levels (it never got even remotely tepid listening to my Sttafs). It seems capable of driving the Mani's, but doesn't grab them by the short an' curlies like it did the Sttafs. Nonetheless, they are FUN speakers to listen to.

Thanks Nuck!

Here's some pics:

Upload

Art

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10629
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 08:09 pm:

Very cool David...which do you like better the Mani's or the Sttaf's...

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2943
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 08:16 pm:

It's hard to say Art. The Mani's are very engaging due to the crazy amount of bass, and have very sharp resolution. But, I'm very used to, and attached to the Sttafs and I like the smooth, laid back sound. Given the right amplification I could love the Mani's. They're very different speakers from the Sttafs, in every way.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13293
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 08:36 pm:

Nice stands!

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2944
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 08:37 pm:

Top of the line!

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3455
Registered: May-05

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 09:13 pm:

Do you still have one or two of those Brystons laying around? If so throw that at 'em.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13298
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 09:15 pm:

Yup!

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2945
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 09:17 pm:

I do Stu! I don't have the Bryston mono's anymore (as you know), which would have kicked the sh!t out of them, but I was thinking throwing my 3B at them and seeing what happens.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2946
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 09:18 pm:

But I may need to buy a more powerful McIntosh(es).

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 922
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 09:22 pm:

Hey, that's an offer no one could refuse.

I haven't heard the Mani's but I'd guess the top end is detailed like Totem Model 1's I assume something like a hot-rodded Model 1 with all that full bass at your disposal.

Those your stands Dave?? What are they? Have you used them with your Studio's?

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13300
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 09:28 pm:

The mani-2's have a whole octave more extension George, in both ends, and no distress, anywhere.
As far as I have heard, these speakers have no shortcoming's.

Apart from their demanding nature, like a prize wife gone bad.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2948
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 09:53 pm:

Haha. So true Nuck.

George, the stands are home made. About 70 lbs a piece. I couldn't bring myself to spend 500 bucks on Totem stands, so I made some myself.

Total cost of materials, 40 bucks.

Art

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10632
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:13 pm:

Quick reminder before you head out to pick up the BIG MAC MONO's that Frank was driving his Mani's with Chord electronics which on paper is damn powerful gear but he felt that his Supernait had more control over the speakers...just a thought. Perhaps Frank will come along and correct me if I'm wrong. You fella's remember that?

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 925
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:16 pm:

Poured concrete with a sonatube form for the upright? Any re-bar reinforcement.

C'mon Dave - share the formula?

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 926
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:18 pm:

Nuck - with all the headache and heartache on driving those Mani-2's, what would it have taken to drive them happily? A Bryston 14B-SST? Maybe I don't want to start this again.

Nick K

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2738
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:30 pm:

Two 28B sst2's.lol wah

Very nice David. Very nice indeed.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13301
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 07:58 am:

Art, I remember well. The mani-2's do best with an amp of great damping factor and grip.

George, I did OK with Classe amps.
The ca200 drove the Totems very well, the ca300 even better. That's 600wpc into 4 ohms, as the spec reads, and I used a lot of it.

The Mac6900 offered better grip on the drivers, but could not manage the load at the loud end of the dial.

I restate: The Mac failed for me, only because I could not run continuously at high levels, and I do not want to own 85% of a system.

Very early on, I listed the ca300 with the Totems, but sticker shock factor was high, resulting in insulting emails and miserly offers.

A ca300 amp can be had for around 1800-2200 cd$

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3457
Registered: May-05

Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 04:52 pm:

I'm a huge Bryston fan and owner as you all know, so take this with a grain of salt...

All things being equal power-wise, I'd think Bryston would control them better than anything that's been mentioned, except the Mac monos. They're a true dual mono - one power supply per channel rather than a shared power supply for 2 channels. I'd think one power supply for each channel would have better control over a difficult speaker than one power supply trying to control two speakers.

Not that any of the brands have sub par power supplies by any means. I just think that a dual mono set up would better control a very difficult speaker.

There is no black and white definitive answer. I'm just thinking out loud.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13305
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 05:01 pm:

The output transformers were just overwhelmed by the load and back emf from the speakers, and while bigger amps might do it, I feel that the isolation provided by big fat direct output switches are what is needed.

That is what I heard.

David needs to try the Bryston setup, when time allows.

J. Jarvis

Silver Member

Username: James_the_god

Lancaster, Lancashire
England

Post Number: 808
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 05:38 pm:

I'd love to hear your gear Dave!!

Nick K

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2739
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 11:46 pm:

Stu- Are the new Bryston 28B 1000watt Mono's not separate power supplies as well? Or no?

http://bryston.com/28bsst_m.html

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3458
Registered: May-05

Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 09:55 am:

They're monos, so yes, they each have their own power supply.

All Bryston amps have one power supply per channel. Multi-channel amps have multiple supplies. It looks a bit deceiving in some pics, because some of the new amps have them stacked on top of each other -

Bryston 3BSST2 with power supplies in front against the face plate -
Upload

Bryston 4BSST2 with Power Supplies stacked instead of side by side -
Upload

As far as I know, the dual mono configuration has always been used by Bryston.

And those power supplies aren't small. Not a shot at Mac by any means, but each one is almost as big as the one the MA 6300 uses.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13315
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 11:17 am:

It's another step to get to autoformers in the Mac lineup.
That said, I couldn't run the Mani-2's, sooo...

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3459
Registered: May-05

Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 11:45 am:

If I'm not mistaken, the Autoformers make sure the wattage is the same regardless of impedence. Is that correct?

If that's the case, that may explain why the 6900 had some issues and the 6300 isn't? I'm pretty sure the 6900 and up have them and but the lower models don't. It sounds stupid to say an inferior product has better results, but I guess there's exceptions to every rule.

BTW - Inferior means MA 6900 vs MA 6300, nothing else.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13316
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 12:24 pm:

The autoformers provide multiple taps for load impedence, at 8, 4 and 2 ohm taps.
One way or another, the lower taps limit current/express voltage, each maintaining a 200w minimum.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2956
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 07:41 pm:

Stu, I have no idea why my 6300 is having no problems driving the Mani's. Part of it I suspect might be that I keep the volume down quite low when listening. I would definitely agree that the 6900 is a superior product to the 6300. The 6300 is the entry level Mac, I have no illusions about that.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13327
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 08:41 pm:

Just dying over hear.

Kidding

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13328
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 08:47 pm:

David, if you turn it up a bit, you will find out.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2960
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:04 pm:

I'll have to wait till I'm home alone...

M.R.

Gold Member

Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 2456
Registered: Nov-05

Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:21 pm:

Those Mac's might look tough, but they're really weaklings with pretty lights . . .

Now the MF A5 for example, now we're talkin' gutz.

Nudge, nudge.

Say no more!

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2961
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 06:39 am:

lol!

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 936
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 09:46 pm:

As He-Man would say:

"I have the Power".}

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13346
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 09:33 am:

The Mani 2's are kinda silly and exclusive, that's why I got them to start with.

But man, when they work right, there is great joy to be had!

Frank Abela

Gold Member

Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire
UK

Post Number: 3800
Registered: Sep-04

Posted on Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 09:19 pm:

Indeed there is Nuck, indeed there is. However, I have to put this thread right.

I did NOT go from the Chord to the Naim. No sir.

I went from the Chord (350wpc into 8, 560wpc into 4), which drove the Mani-2s with a crushing contempt (i.e. with absolutely no trouble at all) to the Arcam P7 7-channel power amp which drove them reasonably well (4 channels at allegedly 160w each) but which was shown to be a puny pup by comparison to the Naim 250.2 (80wpc and a damping factor of just 15, yep really).

In terms of sheer grip and control in the face of Mani-2s, the Chord has been the best by far and what I would call a good match, the Naim 250.2 comes 2nd, you could tell it struggled occasionally but it was still good and held things together. The Arcam simply wasn't in the same game even though its paper specs should have meant it had no problem (as the Chord), but in practice it didn't have the grip and control, it suffered dynamically and therefore wasn't very engaging. Don't get me wrong. It was just a mismatch. The Arcam was very good indeed for what it was. It just wasn't in that game.

The Chord was amazing. Still to this day I think of it as amazing. I just want different things from my system. That said I'd love to do a Bryston vs Chord bake-off. That'd be a really interesting event. Both are renowned for their power but they're meant to deliver it in quite different ways.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13356
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 08:27 am:

I followed in similar steps, Frank.
The Classe ca300 (600wpc@4 ohms), drove the Mani 2's with general abandon and no issues, but I felt that the package lacked some involvement.

The Mac provides all of the Mac goodness and has very good control, but just cannot do with the Totems what is required.

David listens differently than I do, and is not likely to open things up very often, except to test things.

Is this correct, David?

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2989
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 08:34 am:

That's true Nuck. Most of my time listening to music is after I put the kids to bed, so I can't be cranking it.

That's it exactly Nuck - My Mac drives the Totems, but it doesn't take command of them. I wish I still had my Bryston rig (BP-20/PP120) to try them on.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13357
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 09:34 am:

Can you strap them to your 3b?