HRT Music Streamer

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10338
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 03:20 am:

Man this is a fun little toy...anyone else have one? $99 worth of joy!

Looking to upgrade my CD player in the main system to the Saturn or equivalent someday, however this little booger has convinced me that I will be also using a computer and DAC in my main systen soon. It's a brave new world for me!

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 283
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 11:07 am:

Welcome Art to the PC streaming world. That is how I listen to music. I use a Super Pro DAC connected via digital coax. I've not heard of this DAC until I saw your post. I am interested in the plus. I was hoping the plus had a digital input but it is all USB. I'm looking into it more. According to one review they say the plus has internals equivilent to a $2000 CD player.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10340
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 11:54 am:

"According to one review they say the plus has internals equivilent to a $2000 CD player."

I believe it. I would buy the plus for my main system. Maybe next year or the year after when I put a PC into the mains system as a source.

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3404
Registered: May-05

Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 08:30 pm:

I just noticed this Art.

I was looking into trying the HRT stuff out. I didn't go in that direction because I didn't want the computer to be constantly running and have it tied to the system.

I went with the Apple TV connected to my Theta DAC. Its a great combo and makes music more fun for me. Just like on a computer, everything's at my fingertips. The TV interface and other goodies make the Apple TV a great piece IMO. I've You Tubed a ton of live music. While You Tube doesn't have the best picture and sound quality, its still great. Where else am I going to find Black Sabbath Live in Paris 1970 or Pearl Jam playing a live acoustic set in Tower Records in Yonkers, NY before anyone really knew who they were? Forget about pic and sound quality, the performances are excellent.

The Apple TV has a good bit of jitter, which is appearently the reason why it doesn't sound as good into the Theta as the Apollo did (same optical connection and cable). The Bryston DAC basically eliminates jitter by re-clocking the signal, which makes this pretty much a non-issue.

Sorry to change the direction a little bit. Computer/digital/whatever you want to call it is the way its going to be. If people here gave it a chance, they'd probably really like it. With a great DAC, I can't see how it wouldn't sound just as good as a CDP. If done right, probably even better. Don't forget about the hi-rez downloads that are starting to catch on. Linn has been at it for at least a year now.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10371
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 09:07 pm:

Though I'll always (that's along time hmm) have a dedicated cd player, I think you're right Stu. I need someone to walk me through how to store my cd's completely lossless so I can start to prepare for the next stage...scary!

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3405
Registered: May-05

Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 10:16 pm:

Its pretty easy. I was a bit scared as well.

The first thing to do is dowload some sort of ripping software - FLAC, iTunes, etc. Seeing as how I have an iPod and used iTunes before, it was a no brainer for me to use iTunes. If you have it or are willing to use it, there's an Apple Lossless ripping setting. I got an external hard drive and set that as my storage place.

iTunes works very well as far as I'm concerned. I can't hear any loss in SQ in CDs I've burned from it. It also has a great interface which I find very user friendly. The other ones seem a bit complicated and buggy to me.

What takes the longest time is ripping the CDs, especially if you have the error correction enabled and set a slower speed. That'll get you bit perfect recording, or as close to it as possible if the CD is in rough shape.

I still prefer my Apollo. But a newer DAC with the latest jitter rejection will probably get me to go the digital route permanently. I'll never get rid of the CDs, and I can always use a different transport if I want to play the actual CD. That is of course when I find the right DAC. The Bryston BDA-1 is a no-brainer, but its $2k which ain't exactly cheap in my book and I won't be able to afford one any time soon. Too many other things to buy before that unfortunately... House, furniture, etc. If Rega made an Apollo sounding DAC for Apollo money, I'd be all over it. In the mean time, the Theta with the Apple TV and the Apollo will stay. And fortunately, I have realistic complaints about either of 'em.

Let me know when you're ready to start storing stuff. I did a bit of reading and stumbled a little bit, but that was all with how to store them on an external drive. Don't store them on the computer, they'll slow it down and take up a bunch of memory unnecessarily.

And for my next trick.... Don't laugh...

Guitar Hero!

My 16 year old brother wa sgetting rid of his XBox 360, and offered me his Guitar Hero 3 game and controller. III and Guitar Hero Metallica sound excellent! I know, it sounds crazy, but its true. They take the master tapes and mix them for the game so you can 'play' any instrument. What's a huge benefit of it is that you can control the volume of the individual instruments and vocals. For instance, recordings with too much or too bass can be adjusted. Its not frequency specific, its instrument specific.

How does this relate to hifi? I'd love it a hifi component could do that. How great would it be to turn up a sax that seems a little too distant or faint sounding? How cool would it be to turn down a singer all the way and hear the band?

I know that the artists worked hard to get everyting the way they intended it (hopefully anyway), but I've always thought it would be cool to sort of mix your own music.

Maybe one day this will get incorporated into all music and not just video games.

Aside from that, I haven't enjoyed music as much as I am playing Guitar Hero and with the Apple TV in a very long time! That's what its all about to me.

J. Jarvis

Silver Member

Username: James_the_god

Lancaster, Lancashire
England

Post Number: 798
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 02:08 pm:

Stu now you're talking my language!!

It would be cool to do that, but then you're messing with the producers work and hifi wouldn't be what it is now. It'd make it very hard for manufacturers to produce systems that are 'better'!

I had a similiar idea that you could have a wall of sound where one speaker would be dedicated for each instrument. Or two big speakers for stereo like we have now with independent instrumental drivers. In other words each speaker designed slightly differently to match an instruments timber. Or if that messes up cabinet response, then a seperate speaker AND cabinet for each instrument.

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3409
Registered: May-05

Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 09:35 pm:

The only problem is you'd need way too many speakers. For a 3 or 4 person band, that's one thing, but what about other bands? Dave Matthews? They've got a dozen or so guys. Classical? Jazz?

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13037
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 08:01 am:

Engineers mix all of that together for you!

I have mixed and integrated individual tracks, and it ain't easy to get right, if only for a stereo pair of monitors in near field.

How would you integrate all those drivers into something coherent?

Note I only used the console for one weekend!

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2874
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 10:23 pm:

What media player are you using on your computer Art? Are you using Windows? If so, you might want to look at http://www.asio4all.com. This allows you to bypass the Windows audio mixer and use connect directly to the audio device's drivers. It makes for a noticeable improvement in sound quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2678
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 08:23 pm:

A free, and great little music ripping program that allows you to rip in almost all main formats including Uncompressed FLAC or WAV file is CdEx.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/cdexos/files/cdexos/CDex%201.51%20release/cdex_1 51.exe/download

Should prompt you automatically to save or run the download Art, depending on which browser you are using. Super easy to use too. Just put the disk in, and hit burn. Go into the setup and select WAV format. You can even play with the jitter correction. There is more complicated software out there that costs money, but not worth it.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2679
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 08:31 pm:

Art- Where the heck did you get it for 99 dollars?

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3418
Registered: May-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 08:46 pm:

The standard HRT Streamer is $99 -

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/85434

The + version is $300

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2875
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:20 pm:

That's a big difference. What does the + get you? Is it worth the extra 2 bills?

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10452
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:40 pm:

Lots of good info guys thanks. If I have issues I'll ask questions...get ready for questions!

The $300 version is supposed toget you more refinement (whatever that means). I'd bet it is significantly better. I reall like my little fella. Works well for the bucks.

Hey Nick your download asked for bucks in the end...just ignore and use what I got?

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2680
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:47 pm:

Hey Art. Yeah at the end of the free installation version it asks if you want to upgrade to the pro one for a little money. Just say no and never ask me again type thing and go with the free one. It does everything you need and more. The pro version has stuff like mixing before ripping and stuff. Who the heck wants to ruin the music before ripping it anyway?lol Audiophiles want it the way it was recorded.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2681
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 09:49 pm:

The free version should just have the ripping software Art and a CDEx basic music player. If you have any problems with it let me know and I will email you my installation file.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10454
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:23 pm:

Thanks Nick.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2878
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:39 pm:

I'm gonna give that a try Nick. I've been using Foobar 2000 to rip all my stuff to FLAC, but I'm always interested in trying out new software.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10455
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:51 pm:

David your link is above my head...I'm not that computer literate. I doubt I can run Nick's let alone that one. Any links to an easy way to install or use would be helpful...if I get it. Off to bed for tonight and tomorrow night starts the weekend.

Gold Member

Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 2373
Registered: Nov-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:53 pm:

Nick, I don't see anything about FLAC in the readme file. Can you enlighten please?

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2879
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 10:54 pm:

Sorry Art. Send me a PM when you're ready and I can walk you through it step by step. I've used ASIO for both Winamp and and Foobar 2000 media player.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2690
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:49 pm:

Foobar is good too David. It appears that the new CDex 1.51 does not do the FLAC codec anymore. My 1.43 does both FLAC and WAV. The 1.51 only does WAV. Oh well, its all the same, just select Zero compression on the WAV codec in the options and the way you go to races with a bag of uncompressed audio files.lol. Enjoy.

P.S. WAV or FLAC both support non compressed ripping. Both come out with the same file size, and same quality. I can dig up the 1.43 installation file if you guys want. But the 1.51 looks the same minus the FLAC for some reason.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2691
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:51 pm:

ASIO is great Art, like David says. I use it with my FLstudio8 program. Its a music creating/mixing program.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2692
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 11:56 pm:

Sweet, one thing I see the CdEx 1.51 did add though is RAW PCM. sweet. Still, if you go to:

1.) Options
2.) Settings
3.) Encoder Tab
4.) Select WAV Output Encoder.
Compression to NONE:PCM
Samplerate to 44100hz

Then you are set.

Gold Member

Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 2375
Registered: Nov-05

Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 12:16 am:

Ta Nick.

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3420
Registered: May-05

Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 10:58 pm:

Honestly, wouldn't iTunes ripping with Apple Lossless be easier and just as good? Not to mention it takes up less space.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2886
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 11:00 pm:

I find iTunes kinda clunky. Even my wifes iPod drives me nuts trying to use it. But that's just me.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2700
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 08:14 am:

Hey Stu- which takes up less space? The program or the file that is ripped?

I have used iTunes, and also agree with David. For guys like the three of us, its probably just fine. But when somebody like my mom tries using it, look out!! Its just too clunky. I like that word David.lol

But everyone has their own opinion about stuff. You got to remember, David is a Computer Programmer, and I a Computer Engineer. Both of us in the somewhat PC based industry probably shy away from Apple products.lol. Nothing against their media stuff, but their computers give me a freaking migraine.LOL!

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2887
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 10:43 am:

The reason I don't like iPods (and ergo iTunes), is that I don't like a device that requires intermediary proprietary software to use it. If I have an iPod, I should be able to just drag and drop my files from my computer to the device via Windows Explorer. My Sansa media player allows me to do this and I love it. MacIntosh (the evil one with the "a", haha) isn't the only media player guilty of this - Microsoft's Zune player is the same way, and their software is even clunkier!

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2701
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 11:24 am:

Dont get my started on how proprietary MAC computers are, and how they are the most expensive paper weight on the planet. lol. In the REAL world, they are crap. I mean, come work in the industry and tell me you dont want to take a hammer to all their machines. Yeah sure, graphic design they are great for....who gives a hoot. The typical mom and pap yeah fine, they are neat.LOL! But in my world, they are just a pain. Viruses? People seem to think they dont get viruses because they CANT. lol No they dont because nobody cares about them. If they had 95 percent of the market like the Windows does, then people would be hitting them with viruses like crazy. What? Unix based OS's cant get virus's? WRONG!! They can. I have seen every Linux/Unix based OS's get cracked and hacked and had viruses put on them. I use an open source Fedora Redhat 8,9,10. Suse, Mac OS, all of them we have here at work for support. All are junk.

LOL!! Hey I needed to rant. Sorry. This is way off topic.

I-Pod's? Fine, whatever. I will never own one though. I-Phone's are kinda neat.lol

On the up side, that Apple TV Stu has is fantastic. I was playing with one the other day in fact. Very nice. Best product they have IMO.

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3421
Registered: May-05

Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 09:33 pm:

I love the Apple TV. It makes navigating music very easy, not to mention the You Tube feature is a lot of fun. Searching You Tube on the Apple TV is a pain in the rear end, but I can live with it.

By taking up less space, I meant the music files. Apple Lossless files are smaller than FLAC, and WAV. I think 40% smaller?

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2706
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 01:06 am:

really? hmmm You got to wonder what their codec is doing to make it smaller. Interesting... I mean if the file is ripped in true PCM then the file size should be the same size no matter which codec is used. But, I dont know enough about Apple programming and such to fully know. Interesting though Stu.

Stu you have the Apple tv running through the DAC?

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13114
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 01:58 am:

Does that have something to do with your storage, Stu?

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2099
Registered: May-06

Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 11:41 pm:

Ok, I had not seen this thread but mentioned to JV that I was looking for a DAC for my laptop and could not find one at Frye's. JV immediately got me onto the HRT site. I talked to Mark today and ordered the Streamer+ from him. It is about time I hook up that external storage drive and start using it.

I already had a device to bring my single ended inputs into the PC for LP recording. Now I will have a decent way to get it back into the kit.

Hmmm, might have to cook up a DIY IC for this as the MIT Shotgun 2's are probably overkill for this hook-up. Certainly a price killjoy all things considered.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10516
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 08:13 am:

At under a $100 it is a extraordinary music maker, at $300 more like another expensive audio tweak. It's all relative. You can buy a decent cd player for $300. Mike you should try the good cables...you may find it worth it.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2715
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 09:29 am:

Right on Mr Wodek. I am going to have to pick one of these up soon. Anybody know of any Canadian distributor of the HRT stuff?

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2918
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 09:34 am:

I'd like to try one out too.

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3429
Registered: May-05

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 10:35 am:

Nick -
I have it running through the Theta DAC. The Apple TV only has an optical digital out. The good news is it sounds very close to the Apollo when running its optical out to the Theta. The bad news is that it doesn't sound as good as the Apollo's Coax out nor its analog out. I think the problem is optical's inherit jitter problem.

The good news is the DACs I'm interested in are great at rejecting jitter by re-clocking the signal.

Nuck and Nick -
No idea why one file size is smaller than the other. Maybe FLAC and Apple Lossless are the same size? I know Apple Lossless is about 40% smaller than WAV. No idea how or why. I've heard the 3 through very revealing systems and my own and honestly can't hear the difference.

Just like the size of the fish tank has nothing to do with how big the fish will get (despite the popular myth), the file size difference has nothing to do with storage devices.

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 641
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 11:28 am:

I would speculate the difference in file sizes is due to the "other" compression. Even though no information is lost when creating wav, FLAC or Apple Lossless files, how they are stored can involve the space saving version of compression (as opposed to the mutating version of compression). Apple may save space by compressing the data in a similar way a zip utility would. No data loss, it just requires an unzip at playback time. The trick is to ensure the compression/decompression can take place with minimum CPU utilization, so the process has to be very efficient. Something Apple is very good at. Sorry Nick. I'm a fan.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2100
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 01:58 pm:

This is the HRT link to the North America, US & Canada distributor.

http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/distributors.html

http://eliteavdist.com/contact.cfm

Call the number for on the page for the 2nd link above and speak to Scot Markwell.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2101
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 02:18 pm:

I hear you on the good cables Art. I will have to experiment with my CD cables versus a couple of other options to see what works best for this configuration.

As to an expensive audio toy, they are all expensive audio toys, whether it is $100 or $10,000.

There are parts of my kit are there because where they fall into the line of products in relation to my system as a whole. I could have spent a lot more or a lot less on cables, cartridges, etc. but I spend at a quality point that I think best fits my situation or I wait until I can afford the item that will. I do not find value in buying something, having it for a while, then selling it at some percentage of what I paid for it, to then replace it with a higher priced item that I really wanted in the first place.

Say that the Streamer+ at $300 with my believing it was the right fit for my system, but at that price point I would have had to wait for quite some time to buy it, I still would not have bought the $99 because I could afford it now.

You are entitled to you opinion Art, though judgmental. As you think the Music Streamer is all you need then you did well with your purchase.

I do not want to spend $2,000 or more on a DAC for what would be 3rd or 4th option (based upon my listening habits today) in my source chain. The Music Streamer+ gets me where I want to be for now.

Should I experience a change in behavior where I find myself moving this to the 1st or 2nd choice in my source chain I would re-visit where the value is in this configuration and adjust accordingly.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10517
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 03:23 pm:

"As to an expensive audio toy, they are all expensive audio toys, whether it is $100 or $10,000."

That's why I said it is all relative Mike...don't just pick the parts you want to read. Read it all in context and there is no judgement, read only what you want to make your point and it is something altogether different.

That's why I choose expensive cables, they fit my system better.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10520
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 05:53 pm:

Had yet another friend over at another forum pickup the Music Streamer and he really likes it. Though I won't pick up the + anytime soon it would be interesting to hear from someone I know what they feel the difference is.

Someday when Stu, Nick and David teach me the fine art of PC audio I'll be moving that way. It may be my final frontier...

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2102
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 05:57 pm:

I did read the whole thing Art. I suppose it is just two people looking at something and each seeing something different. I felt you were being judgmental in your comment and adding it's all relative did not change that, that's all.

If you had just said "At under a $100 it is a extraordinary music maker", I would have taken it that you were pleased with your decision. Adding "at $300 more like another expensive audio tweak." seemed to be judgmental since for me at $300 could be an extraordinary music maker.

If I felt that way I would not consider making a statement as to one being better in my kit than the other one in someone else's kit because it's all relative.

Do you see my point perhaps?

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10523
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 07:09 pm:

I see your point and apologize if I offended you, that was certainly not my intent Mike.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2920
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 07:35 pm:

PC audio certainly makes listening to music convenient, just cue up a bunch of files and sit back. The thing is, I spend all day in front of a computer for work, when I come home and want to unwind, the physical ritual of picking out a disc, loading it in the tray and sometimes even looking at the liner notes.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2718
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 07:35 pm:

Stu/Chris - Maybe the lossless apple format does do a small compression when the file is saved. It perhaps stores itself it the compressed state and cashe's itself back into its original size only when it is played. Maybe. Either way, if it sounds the same, then who cares.LOL. Cool stuff though. Maybe thats not how it is either. The Apple Lossless file format is just the name they gave the codec. I see that the codec can still be compressed. Good marketing on their part. As long as people are getting it completely uncompressed, regardless the file size it should sound the same as any other codec. Good on MAC in this regard.

MW-Thank you for the links man, I will check them out.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2719
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 07:37 pm:

LOL David- I am totally with you on that one buddy.

Art- We are here for you man.lol

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13175
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 08:26 pm:

I saw an ad (since lost) with a guy selling copies of his wav file catalog.

This is insensitive, illegal(I feel), and immoral.

Good price too!

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10527
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 09:02 pm:

Same for me David...I do the computer thing all day as well, social work ain't what it used to be, So I like the whole disc ritual. I just want to be able to do do music in every way possible. I won't do without a good disc player and hope that my next player will be an investment like the Isis that is forever. However, I see the potential for great sound through the server system, gotta try it all.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2103
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 10:51 pm:

Art, all clear, thanks.

As to your last post, that is what I was hoping my Saturn was / is / was, the last CD I would need. Maybe.

I did not think I could achieve a quality output from the laptop until JV tipped me off on the Music Streamer products.

Nick, you are most welcome.

David, I am not there yet man. I still find something sexy in terms of audio enjoyment to pull the LP out of the jacket, survey it for surface issues, and if need be wipe it down or Nitty Gritty it, then carefully place it on the spinning platter, move the tonearm over, and queue the needle in place. Ooh baby, sweet sounds abound. YMMV.

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 645
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 01:22 pm:

Anyone looking to explore the PC/Mac music streaming world more fully should check out the Computer Audiophile site. An absolute wealth of great information.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13215
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 03:53 pm:

Great, thanks CH.

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 289
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 09:08 pm:

Does anyone have the HRT+? What USB cable are you guys using? I may give this a try. I am intrigued to say the least.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10552
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 04:27 am:

Mike has the + so I'll let him follow up with you Mordecai. These HRT products are truly special.

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 290
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 11:00 am:

What's up Michael? :-)

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13221
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 12:12 pm:

I think it was posted that the + is a lot of mixing and stuff in a suite, the core product remains the same.

Mikey?

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2109
Registered: May-06

Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 08:22 pm:

The plus is the same core product as the regular Media Streamer. No other bells and whistles, just plug it in and it becomes your speakers for your computer, there is no software to load, no options or settings to change. Plug a set of interconnects into the other side and plug them into your reciever, integrated, pre-amp, whatever. You do have to supply your own USB - A to USB - B cable. The difference with the plus is higher quality parts for a higher end set up IMO. Art is using his in his office system I am using mine in my main rig. Interestly enough it is close in performance to my Saturn.There are some things about it that I like a lot but it still does not do everything for the music that the Saturn does.

I am still trying to get past the "different" is better trap and I will be tweaking it some as well. Keep in mind that my ICs for my CD player are higher end and that the CD player is plugged into the dedicated circuit were my laptop, DVD burner, and external storage device are all plugged into the normal house power.

I really need to listen to this thing for about 2 to 4 weeks to give it an honest assessment.

That all being said, the bang for the buck is freakin' awesome.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10555
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 08:48 pm:

The HRT products appear to be a home run IMO. When I next get $300 spare I will likely invest in the + for my main rig for my transition to a pc based source. Still want to hear more from Mike as he evaluates the + over the next few weeks.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13227
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 09:02 pm:

Mike called me all gaga over the thing.
I think if Art and Mike continue with good results, I may have to get one as well.

Then a puter and storage.

Then buy bulk files.

Gold Member

Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 2412
Registered: Nov-05

Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 10:32 pm:

Mike what sort of files are you streaming - these things aren't DAC's are they? So can a good DAC go in between the computer and the HRT and would that be even better? I'm bit backward on this stuff.

If I go this route, it won't be a transition, it will be an addition. CD's while available will be my main source. Though I believe if I do something like this, then we could all be guilty of compactdiscicide. So I still might play the wait and see game for the near future.

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 649
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 07:06 am:

MR, they are DAC's. Basically a USB to analogue conversion, powered through the USB cable. There are a number of similar products on the market and a wide range of price points. Fubar, Wavelength, Benchmark, Stello, and the list goes on and on. Some of them still rely on a DC power supply, while the HRT's are powered through the USB cable itself, which seems like a good approach to me.

Gold Member

Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 2413
Registered: Nov-05

Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 07:22 am:

Okay, after more reading I thought that was the case, but what these don't seem to do is upconvert which I think may be a more practical for different conditions as well as accepting different bit rates and so forth. As I said I'm no expert just tossing thoughts around. I check back here tomorrow.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2110
Registered: May-06

Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 09:05 am:

Some more thoughts on the subject, not any recommendations, just other things to consider with USB DACs.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Best-USB-cable-use-between-computer-an d-dac

Cheers!

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 292
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 12:46 pm:

Wondering what the people who bought the HRT+ think? Also, what USB cable do you recommend should I decide to go this way?

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10680
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 02:07 pm:

Might want to PM Mike. I think he's the only one with the +.

Gold Member

Username: My_rantz

Australia

Post Number: 2484
Registered: Nov-05

Posted on Sunday, September 20, 2009 - 05:49 pm:

Something you HRT owners no doubt know

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2009/musicstreamer.shtml

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10792
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 09:56 am:

Well, the Music Streamer has already quit working. I have emailed HRT, but don't hold out much hope. If there is no resolution then I obviously can't recommend the product. We'll see.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3104
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 09:58 am:

Well that sucks Art. You've only had it for a couple of months!

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10793
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 12:06 pm:

I really like the product so I hope there can be some resolution. I don't think I even have the invoice anymore...perhaps a serial number or something will suffice.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13631
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 12:14 pm:

Should do, if you bought from them Art.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10797
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 02:41 pm:

Already received an email back from them asking me to ship it to them...again we'll see. Very impressive response time for an email, I must say.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3105
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 03:54 pm:

That is impressive. On a Sunday no less.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10799
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 04:32 pm:

Don't get too excited...Roy Hall answers emails on Sunday too...lol!

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10801
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 06:26 pm:

One difference, Kevin Halverson seems like a nice guy.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2147
Registered: May-06

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 10:35 pm:

Art, I am surprised it could break. Did you try an alternate source just in case your output config became corrupted from the initial source you were running into it? Swap computers, a laptop?

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2148
Registered: May-06

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 10:49 pm:

I have resolved my thoughts on my Media Streamer+.

It is as advertised and reviewed, quite the product for the money. I have used it with a 6ft Belkin USB and a 10 ft.gold plated Belkin USB. I did not sense a difference in either. My source is my laptop, using lossless audio files ripped to it as well as my outboard server. Differences were imperceptible to me.

I have rolled various Interconnects from it to my pre-amp. This is the only area I can gauge qualitative changes. I have elected to leave one of my two MIT Shotgun 2 ICs from the Media Streamer+ to the pre-amp. This provides the best quality for me. I can explain on another thread why I moved my best IC from my pre-amp to amp to this part of my kit.

The end result is very detailed easy to listen to music, but not as good as my Saturn CD player. There is a depth and realism with the CD player that the Media Streamer+ just misses. If I did not have the Saturn I would be fine with not knowing what I was missing.

The simplest analogy I can come up with to describe the differences would be sitting down to enjoy your favorite dessert and sensing something was not right only to find out that the chef had run out of butter and had to substitute margarine. You still got all the calories, but...

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10807
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 07:03 am:

Just a sec Mike let me grab my alternative computer and/or laptops....no Mike I don't have other computers lying about.

It's the Streamer. Touch the cable near the connection and it stops working. Tried more than one cable and the symptoms are the same. Kevin believes it's the socket much like I do.

Nice review Mike.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2767
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 09:54 am:

Mike- does your laptop have an HD audio codec that allows for change of the bit rate and such to be changed to better match the HRT Music Streamer Plus? Would you say that the HRT Music Streamer Plus would top the Apollo giving proper configuration?

Wierd Art. Not a whole lot that could go wrong in a little DAC but I guess you found one.lol. They will get you a new one.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2150
Registered: May-06

Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 10:21 am:

Nick, I do not think so, but I am at work now and would not be able to check until this evening.

Having owned both, in my opinion the same qualities in terms of musical flow that are present in the Saturn are also present in the Apollo. I do think that someone who prefers a "cool" or analytical presentation, similar to what a fellow Maris described on another forum, could prefer the Media Streamer+ to a lot of CD players, possibly even the Rega products.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 10882
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 07:17 pm:

Sent the Music Streamer off to Kevin Halverson on Friday. We'll see what happens.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2166
Registered: May-06

Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 08:01 pm:

Nick, Conexant HD Audio Input

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2780
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 09:18 pm:

Awesome Mike - If you go into your sound settings under Control Panel you should be able to change your sample rate and bit depth to better match the HRT.

Windows Vista and/or 7- Start, Control Panel, Sound. Click on the sound device, then go to Properties. First click on Enhancements and select the check box " Disable All Enhancements". Then go to the Advanced tab and select the default Sample Rate and Bit Depth to 24bit, 96000hz. Save it. It should go up to 192000hz if it is true HD, but the HRT Plus doesn't like it much.

It might not make a huge difference but its worth a shot.

Art- I look forward to hearing how fast they take care of you.

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 300
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 09:44 pm:

Thanks for posting this Nick. I hadn't made these changes myself and it made an immediate improvement.

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 301
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 09:45 pm:

Michael, any chance we could hook up so I could try your HRT+?

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2781
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 10:13 pm:

Awesome Mordecai. Glad it helped.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2169
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 01:21 am:

Nick, my menu did not follow that path. AlI I could do was turn off "Hardware Acceleration". I left "Sample rate conversion quality" set to "Best".

Mordecai - absolutely. Send me a PM with contact info and we can work it out.

Jan Vigne

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 14088
Registered: May-04

Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:42 am:

.

The Nov. '09 Stereophile has a review of the HRT along with a "special advertising section" for computer audio.

.

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 701
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 02:27 pm:

And 6 moons.....

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/streamer/streamer+.html

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 302
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 01:31 am:

I have switched from digital coax to USB. So far, I am impressed with USB. I happened to have a Belkin USB cable which is much better than the cable that came with the Super Pro DAC I have. I've read some articles about USB cables so I am wondering what USB cables ya'll are using?

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3165
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 09:04 am:

I wouldn't have thought USB cables would be all that much different. It's worth a try.

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 303
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 11:52 am:

Everything I have read about USB DAC's indicate a difference in sound between cables. I have three and tried two and heard a difference between the one that came with the DAC and the Belkin. The Belkin is one of the low priced cables that many people recommend. I also see that Kimber USB cables are mentioned. I'm not looking to spend a lot on cables of any kind as a general rule. That is why I am interested to hear from those of you that are using a USB DAC.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2175
Registered: May-06

Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 12:33 pm:

From what I posted on this thread earlier;

Posted on Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 10:49 pm:

I have used it with a 6ft Belkin USB and a 10 ft.gold plated Belkin USB. I did not sense a difference in either.

Mordecai, I have read up on USB cables and found like anything else, two camps. Those (majority) who swear no differences to be had in USB cables and those who think esocteric (not the brand) USB cables make differences. I am not willing to expend even a couple hundred of dollars on an experiment(s) until I have some better direction and support for USB upgrades.

Type "USB" in the search tab on Audiogon and you should get a couple of options to consider.

Kirk M

Silver Member

Username: I_am_kirk

Post Number: 116
Registered: May-08

Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 03:49 pm:

The debate about USB is fairly new for folks and unbelievably unclear. There is really no one answer (as usual with audio lol). I've seen no mention of the dac used in this thing, does anyone know what model it is?

Computer audio has about 40 different camps of belief lol. If you are just transitioning from cd you're going to hear a lot of theories lol. Software, hardware, types of computers, usb cables, power cables, etc. It goes on and on. For most people it's going to be about the convenience of an entire collection accessible at once with a remote, laptop, or really anything with wireless net (or even infrared on linux lol).

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3169
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 06:14 pm:

I guess like anything, quality becomes a factor when comparing. But really all the USB cable is transporting 0's and 1's at a fairly predictable and (usually) constant interval.

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2178
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 06:53 pm:

David, that is what I was referring to earlier, there are two camps, one arguing the 0's and 1's and another citing examples of differences for different levels even within the same manufacturer. The no difference argument is supported by the bandwidth throughput capacity of the USB cable versus the bandwidth required for a Redbook CD. The CD requires the minutest of fraction of the available bandwidth of the USB.

Still, there are shielded and unshielded cables as well as different conductors and materials for shielding and such.

I bit, but not too hard. I ordered a Mdht Red Devil today for about $50 (USD). It will probably be a couple of weeks before I get it. Then I will make my own determination as if it makes any difference. I was not going to spend $200 or more for this little experiment.

It has come to where I think if someone makes audiophile USB cables or sells them they will tell you how much difference they make, if someone has not financial interest, they will tell you it's all 0's and 1's and come spend your money on something that they do sell.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3173
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 09:11 am:

"Still, there are shielded and unshielded cables as well as different conductors and materials for shielding and such."

Maybe this is where the quality difference may come into play...

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 11013
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 06:59 pm:

Kevin Halverson finally emailed me back after 3 days to tell me that they had found the problem with my Music Streamer and fixed it however he now has it on his engineeering desk trying to figure out how it happened and was asking for more details...which I provided..sort of as there really weren't anymore details than I orginally provided.

Oddly he stated that they had just received my Music Streamer last week. He stated that I sent it to the wrong address. I recorded the address I sent it to and it was the one he emailed to me for just that purpose...hmm.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 13796
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 07:26 pm:

Portland...Maine???

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 11014
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 08:14 pm:

At least both Kevin and Mike appear to be nice guys who are trying to provide good customer service and I do appreciate that.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3188
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 08:18 pm:

That makes all the difference Art.

Gold Member

Username: My_rantz

Gold Coast
Australia

Post Number: 2578
Registered: Nov-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 10:24 pm:

What they really want to know Art is: What the heck did to to with it you aren't telling us? LOL!

Good customer service can appease one's ire over these little problems - you never know Art, maybe you'll cause a recall.

Platinum Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 11015
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 10:36 pm:

Yikes...please no recall!

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 2192
Registered: May-06

Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 11:58 am:

We don't want no stinkin' recall.

Especially now since I plugged in a couple of "audiophile" shielded USBs by Mhdt. Their "Red Devil" is now between my outboard hard drive and my laptop and also between my laptop and my HRT Media Streamer+. It has made a positive difference on the SQ. At low to moderate levels it runs very, very close to my CDP in terms of reproduction. At high volume levels it does wear me down after about an hour, which does not happen with the Saturn.

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 306
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 07:35 pm:

What is the difference in sound quality between a 16 bit DAC and a 24 bit DAC (and don't say 8 bits lol). I would like to buy the HRT+ which is 16 bit but I have a 24 bit DAC now. I connect to the DAC from my PC via digital coax and listen to lossless files. Music wise does having a 24 bit DAC mean better sound?

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3324
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 07:43 pm:

If you're used to listening to CDs, then you probably wouldn't notice going from a 24 bit DAC to a 16 bit DAC, since most CDs are recorded at a 16 bit depth. If the digital device (DAC, CDP, etc) does upsampling, then this could make a difference I would think.

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 307
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 07:51 pm:

No, everything I listen to are lossless audio files from my PC. I have the Super Pro USB DAC 707. The Super Pro uses the CS-8416 for the receiver chip and the highly resolving CS-4398 for the D/A chip. Dual LT1364Cs are used for analog output. The unit has optical and coaxial digital inputs. Analog output is via standard RCA plugs.

D/A Receiver chip CS-8416,
D/A converter chip, CS-4398 (24-192KHZ )
Dual LT1364C OP AMPS for analog output circuit
Optical digital input
Coaxial digital Input
USB input (USB 1.0 and 2.0 compatible)

CM-108 USB receiving chip
Standard RCA analog output plugs
Output voltage � 3.5V / 400mW
Audio output: 24bit/48khz (44.1Khz)
Dynamic range: 120dB
Signal to noise ratio: 107 dB

It doesn't say anything about up sampling.

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 308
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 07:55 pm:

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3326
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 07:58 pm:

Not sure if you're gonna notice much of a difference going from the 707 to the HRT, the base model anyway.

I have 2 of them, and for the money, they're quite good.

Silver Member

Username: Mordecai

Texas

Post Number: 309
Registered: Jan-09

Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 09:07 pm:

That it was I'm thinking too. You have two of the USB 707 DAC or the HRT? I was only considering the HRT+.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3328
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 08:43 am:

I have 2 of the 707s.

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2831
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 11:03 am:

Where do I buy one of these SuperPro units? I will test it side by side against the HRT units. The 99 dollar HRT unit is the best bang for the dollar out of the two HRT models IMO. Is the HRT + better than the basic model? Absolutely! But the basic model does things that are unheard of in the 100 dollar price range.

My prediction is that the HRT will sound better than the SuperPro, but this is just speculation as I have never heard the SuperPro. Who sells them?

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 3329
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 11:04 am:

http://www.obadimports.com/catalog/item/6697671/5226912.htm

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 2833
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 11:17 am:

Cool stuff. Thanks David. It is priced well.