Cardas vs. Audioquest vs. Kimber

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2578
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 06:43 pm:

First of all, I know I should post this in the cable section, but no one ever seems to look there, and I wanted to get your guys' opinion.

I'm tossing around the idea of changing my interconnects between my MA6300 and CA 640C CDP. As some of you remember I am currently using Blue Jeans IC's. I was interested in trying out something new.

Before you guys ask (Jan) what it is I dislike about the current sound, let me say that I think it sounds pretty darned good. I like experimenting and changing things up often.

I was looking at either Kimber Heros, Cardas Crosslinks or Audioquest King Cobras. As you can see, I don't want to spend too much money ;-)

Thanks!

Stryvn

Gold Member

Username: Stryvn

Wisconsin

Post Number: 1131
Registered: Dec-06

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 07:21 pm:

Have you tried any of the diy stuff, David?

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2583
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 07:33 pm:

No I haven't Stryvn. I want to, just can't seem to find the time to take on even a small project right now.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2584
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 07:34 pm:

I've read a fair bit about Anti-Cables, and I wouldn't mind trying a DIY anti-cable type thing. Anyone know a good place to order insulated magnet wire?

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 772
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 08:00 pm:

Dave, is there anything specific that you're looking for in changing the IC? Is it more detail you're after or broader soundstage, deeper soundstage.
I'm using the Ultimate Cables that the guy from Quebec sells on CAM. For about $55 you can get a 3ft cord which is 50/50 copper and silver, cryogenically treated with Neutrik connectors. He'll upgrade the connectors to Vampires for $15. That's the insured shipped price, taxes-in. I found they give me a very smooth top end and good bass. They have a little less detail then magnet wire cables but less noise and a deeper soundstage. If you don't like them, I'm sure you could easily flip them for half the cost and you wouldn't have lost much.

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 773
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 08:02 pm:

Oops, price went up slightly but drop him an email. He's friendly and negotiable.

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/127276-ultimate_cables_silverseriesc4_1pa ir_1m_wneutrik_rca_/

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2586
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 08:11 pm:

Not sure what I'm looking for George. I'll know it when I hear it :-)

Thanks for the tip on the Ultimate Cables. Checking them out right now.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2587
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 08:13 pm:

I'm also considering checking out Unity Cables. They're located right here in Ottawa.

http://www.marketworks.com/storefrontprofiles/deluxeSFshop.aspx?sfid=78796&c=148 915

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 774
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 08:28 pm:

Yeah I've seen the adds for Unity Cables and been to their site but don't really have any information.

Art

Gold Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 9590
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 09:40 pm:

van den Hul - The Well Hybrid or better.

http://eugenehifi.com/

Sale items

http://eugenehifi.com/Demo_Specials/Demo_Used_Specials.htm

vdH cables

http://eugenehifi.com/VanDenHul/htm/van_den_Hul_RCA_Cables.htm

Call these fella's they'll let you audition the cable...very little risk. Only problem may be the Canadian connection...even then maybe they can point you in the right direction.

Michael Wodek

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 1958
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 10:08 pm:

David, the DIY cables I sent to George had $5 RS RCAs on them. The were 3 or 4 generations of cable better than the King Cobra in my kit.

Radio Shack has the magnet wire. Then again so do I. I also have .999 pure silver wire. If you want me to send you enough to build your own DIYs let me know the lenght. IMO the Eichmann Bullets, non-silver, are much better than the RS RCAs. I have a contact for them. PM me if interested. If you can solder you can have a sweet set of ICs on the cheap.

George's find seems pretty good since I am familiar with what the MIT II ICs did for me which I liked better than the DIY magnet wires. It seems George found another builder that does something similar.

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13617
Registered: May-04

Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 - 11:19 pm:

.

Magnet wire is insulated, it uses the epoxy coating as the insulation so there is no conventional dielectric. Scrape the epoxy off the end of the wire with a razor blade and make your DIY's.

You can actually use just one conductor leg from RCA + (center pin) to RCA + (use the RS no solder/screw type RCA's for a quick try and best sound for a cheap RCA). Then run another conductor from any chassis screw on your CD player to a ground screw on your integrated. Use a meter to assure a solid ground at the CD player's chassis screw. That makes a solid connection with minimal fuss. For less then $10 and ten minutes time you have a very decent ic IMO.

I agree the Eichman's are better than the RS RCA's but will require some soldering skills and no connector is better than the Eichmans but far more trouble.

Otherwise, my only advice would be to not seriously consider the Kimbers as they do not IMO have a similar balance to the Mac. After that, the cable decisions are too numerous.

My strongest suggestion if you opt out of the DIY's is to avoid thick cables and audio jewelry RCA's. Go minimal in both areas.

.

Stu Pitt

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3295
Registered: May-05

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 12:12 pm:

How would you describe Kimber's balance, Jan?

Interesting thread, Dave. I have the King Cobras. Mike replaced King Cobras with the magnet wire. If I recall correctly, he said they were far more open sounding, among other things.

I don't have too much experience with different cables, so I'm following the thread. Obviously, the only way to really figure out what works best is to audition the stuff. From what I hear, Cardas gets most things right, but isn't very musical or engaging. Same for Nordost.

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13619
Registered: May-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 01:00 pm:

.

Kimber gets my vote for a good all round cable that is frequently a safe bet. However, IMO Kimber will do best with systems that prefer a touch of something extra that places them in a higher category of sound - the sense you are hearing more than you really are. I don't think the Mac needs this extra and will only be poorly served by this cable. With Bryston or Rotel I wouldn't think the Kimber would be a poor match as far as what all the pieces are trying to achieve and would tend to compliment what priorities a Bryston or Rotel buyer might have.

I do like the Kimber overall but just not in this system.

.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12406
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 05:36 pm:

Fair nuff.
You had some Kimber in the big box O' cables in the closet then, huh JV?

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13621
Registered: May-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 07:48 pm:

.

Yeah, I have some Kimber, and some Sumiko and some OCOS and some Monster and Audioquest and MIT and god knows what else. But I was buying those at store cost and sometimes being given a cable to try. I got off the cable merry go 'round years ago so none of those are current versions of anything.

.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12414
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 08:32 pm:

I suppose a bottle of premium Scotch will be a good trade for your lasgana, your middle seat for sommore Chuck Berry and a few cables to go??
LOL

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12415
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 08:34 pm:

I have to think that the most minimalist cables are the starting point, David.
I will start from there.

I think George had noise issues due to the 1$ plugs in the cables that Mike and I put together.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2592
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 09:19 pm:

Thanks for all the input guys.

I'll heed Jan's advice and steer clear of the Kimbers for now.

Jan, so when you say to stay away from the thick cable, do you mean for speaker cable or for IC's, or both?

I'm sorta leaning towards George's suggestion right now.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12418
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 09:32 pm:

Thick cable meaning pretty and thick, David.
It just doesn't matter man.
But minimalist can be les than pretty, too.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2593
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 09:35 pm:

My dealer always uses speaker cables the diameter of garden hose. I always thought they looked cool, but then again, I'm attracted to bright, shiny objects too.

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 779
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 07:51 pm:

Dave, I'm trying a PS Audio Xtreme Speaker Reference that a friend lent me. These are garden hose thickness with all the fine jewelery. The went for about $800 when they were first released about 5 yrs or so ago. I've tried them against my Kimber 4PR on first the low frequency terminals and now on the high frequency terminals and other then what a would say the slightest impression of more openess...nadda. No way I would spend that kind of money for a difference that I'm not sure is even there.
On another note, yeah the DIY IC's provided great detail and an airy sound but not a lot of body or smoothness plus yes, I did get noice but I suspect that's because they don't have a drain wire wired in and I'm getting some feedback. Nuck/Mike...did you ever think aoout building them with a drain wire?

Mike - you got me thinking about an all silver IC again. The IC's I'm using now 50/50 copper/silver mix are very smooth with good detail and body...I'd say very balance but not as much top end detail as the magnet wire...which is what I love about the DIY IC's. I wonder if a DIY silver cable with a drain wire would get rid of the noise problem and take it to even a higher level???

It's all fun.

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13638
Registered: May-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 10:10 pm:

.

What sort of noise are you hearing?

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 782
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 07:29 am:

Hi Jan,

At power up you get a hum on the speakers which continues at a much lower level once you get a signal from the source. Once the music is playing, it's virtually unheard unless you go right up to the speakers and listen carefully. It could be the fact that my Bryston 3B-ST itself has a mechanical hum and these cables are just so sensitive that they highlight the fact that there is noise in the line.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12459
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 02:41 pm:

Or it might be the way Mike and I made them on the counter, i think we fixed it once.

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13642
Registered: May-04

Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 08:16 pm:

.

Try switching back to a shielded cable of any kind - good, bad, cheap or not, just a shielded cable to see if this isn't the issue. From what you're saying you simply need a shield on the ic.

.

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 783
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 07:44 pm:

Yes, when I use my new sheilded cables the hum in the line is gone - totally but there still is the mechanical hum in the amp.
As mentioned, the magnet wires seem to provide all the details but are "more" susceptible to hum/feedback. Seems like it just follows the standard rule that nothing is perfect and there are always compromises.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2615
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 07:59 pm:

I've got a mechanical hum in one of my Brystons too George. Not loud enough to hear with music playing, but if you go close to the rack you can hear it.

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 785
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 08:42 pm:

Dave, in a quite room, from three feet away can you still hear the hum? With mine, I can, which is supposed to be the Bryston test for mechanical hum acceptabilty. I spoke to their service department and that's what they told me. I'm moving on June 6 - 9th and when I'm at my new temp. residence (parents basement), I'll see if it hums at their place. If it does, I'll be looking to ship it back to Bryston.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12511
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 08:52 pm:

Brystons make noise george, but always as low as you say.
Thats what I mostly heard from the amps.
It happens.

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 2618
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 09:18 pm:

For me it's more like just a foot away, but definitely audible. Strangely enough, it was much worse when it was sitting on top of another Bryston.

Stu Pitt

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 3318
Registered: May-05

Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 10:58 pm:

My Bryston has never hummed.

Now that I say that, you know what'll happen tomorrow...

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13650
Registered: May-04

Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 01:49 pm:

.

"Yes, when I use my new sheilded cables the hum in the line is gone - totally but there still is the mechanical hum in the amp.
As mentioned, the magnet wires seem to provide all the details but are "more" susceptible to hum/feedback. Seems like it just follows the standard rule that nothing is perfect and there are always compromises."

Uh, ... no.

It means the DIY cables aren't shielded. That's all.

.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 12515
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 01:54 pm:

Just pull another run of mag wire from the case along the length of the run and terminate it near the load end.

Silver Member

Username: Soundgame

Richmond Hill Toronto, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 790
Registered: Jun-08

Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 07:48 pm:

Nuck, sounds like you're talking a "drain wire", which is my suspicion as to why the DIY cable makes noise. I'll have to do that and then recompare to my shielded cable. First, I gotta get moved out and settled into the new digs.

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 13652
Registered: May-04

Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 07:52 pm:

.

The DIY's are not shielded. If you want a shield over the cable, you can build a moderately effect one with aluminum foil. Or you can buy a braided shield and insert the DIY cable into that. That does, however, alter some of the characteristics of the DIY cable.

.

Michael Wodek

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 1985
Registered: May-06

Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 09:16 pm:

One of the beauties of this particular DIY was it's minimalist design which JV has helped me understand that it leads to lower impedance. The goal being as little as possible to get in the way of the signal.