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Thread: Bi-wire? |
    
Bronze Member Username: Rh1
Post Number: 27
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 10:36 am: |
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Can someone explain what exactly this means and what effect it has. Does it make the sound better? |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 01:42 pm: |
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It splits the X-over into two separate pieces and allows for the best current drive to the woofer without interfering with the signal being sent to the tweeter. Some speakers can use this to an advantage. Some speakers will not benefit other than from a marketing stand point. |
Bronze Member Username: Rh1
Post Number: 28
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 02:22 pm: |
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Thanks, do you know of any websites with instructions on bi-wiring? |
Bose Joke Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 08:24 pm: |
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Bi-wiring is straight forward. Either buy cables that are already set up for bi-wiring, which is 2 sets of speaker cables combined together or run 2 seperate speaker cables. Basically, you will connect both sets of cables to you receiver as normal, except you will have 2 each of positive and negative cables then run them to you speakers, running one set of cables to the low frequecy input and the other set to the high frequency input. Some more exotic cables may have a different cable for the low frequency side from the high frequency side. That is probably unnecessary for most people including myself. |
New member Username: 514329
Philippines
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 08:51 pm: |
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did this with my speakers using a single (12awg) 15ft Monster Z series against 2 15ft Monster Z series and never heard any difference. also tried a Monster 50ft (14awg) inwall cable against the Z series and again no audible difference and if there is I didn't notice it and just additional expense but they look good. |
Silver Member Username: Robertinchico
Post Number: 138
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 01:33 pm: |
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You must first verify that 1) your speakers have TWO sets of binding posts - that would mean there are FOUR separate connection devices on the back side of your speaker 2) determine if there is a piece of flat metal interfacing the speaker binding posts and remove it (if you have bi-wireable speakers) 3) attach the L/R cables to each L/R OUTPUT jack on your amp/receiver and connect them to each of the 4 corresponding +/- terminals on the loudspeaker - you'll have to make sure your amp/receiver has at least TWO (A+B) output channels (which would mean FOUR output jacks on back). You have to activate each channel. Since bi-wireable speakers vary in the way the input signal is split to various drivers, you may have to experiment a bit with the connections.
Keep in mind ordinary, spool "wire" will not always yield much audible improvement in bi-wire applications, and some speakers don't perk up much from bi-wiring.
However, bi-wiring can be a great way to maximize system performance if your speakers have the potential.
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Bronze Member Username: Rh1
Post Number: 39
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 11:54 am: |
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The Wharfedale Diamond 8's that I just purchased do in fact ahve bi-wire capability. The Kenwood VR5700 receiver I am going to buy seems to have a funny set up, in that the "A" channels utilize banana plugs but the "B" channels utilize clamp style spring connections. Is this going to worth my while to use these bi-wiring posts since I have sub-standard connection posts on the speaker "B' side? |
Silver Member Username: Project6
Post Number: 746
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 12:39 pm: |
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not a lot of folks really use the B speakers, unless it is in another area of the house. And I think you may be having a misunderstanding on the biwiring. |
Silver Member Username: Robertinchico
Post Number: 139
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 01:30 pm: |
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The differences you observe in the rear connection panel on your receiver is probably a convention KENWOOD uses to help you differentiate between A and B channels. It doesn't indicate that they are inferior in anyway.
I'll bet you get at least reasonable results bi-wiring your Wharfedales, but I'd suspect rather modest results if you are just using "spool" cable. |
Bronze Member Username: Rh1
Post Number: 40
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 03:22 pm: |
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I noticed on the back of the receiver there is a + and - for each of the front l/r, center, and surround l/r. Correct me if i'm wrong too bi-wire i am going to need 2 + and 2 - inputs for each of the speaker connections. This receiver only has one + and - for each speaker. This means no bi-wire capacity, right? |
Bronze Member Username: Rh1
Post Number: 41
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 03:26 pm: |
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I think I just had an ephipany! Does the speaker wire attach to the receiver using only one left and one right and two left and two right to the actual speaker? |
Silver Member Username: Project6
Post Number: 751
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 06:01 pm: |
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oh yeah, you ARE having quite a misconception on bi-wiring.
read up on some of these before you do some damage
http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/000524_biamping_biwiring.php
http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/Answr7.htm
http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/index.html
have fun with your new toy!
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Bronze Member Username: Rh1
Post Number: 44
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 04:59 pm: |
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I agree. I understand the concept, I am just having trouble with the set up. I know the HF and LF frequencies go to the approriate terminals on the speakers but I am still unsure how it connects to the receiver. |
Silver Member Username: Project6
Post Number: 776
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 05:10 pm: |
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how do you know which strands of wire carry the HF and which ones carry the LF if it is coming from one source without any crossover network in-between???
hmmmm....careful now! |
Bronze Member Username: Rh1
Post Number: 46
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 11:04 pm: |
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Ok looks like the bi-wire is a bust. I certainly don't want to mess up my speakers or receiver. |
New member Username: Yshuaw
Los Angeles,
CA
Post Number: 9
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 08:28 pm: |
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Newb:
Take a look at the following link
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/jpsultra_e.html
(not an ednorsement for any product, just the best pic I could find) and you will see that the receiver end of the spkr wire is a standard red/black connection. the speaker-end of the wire splits between the two sets of binding posts you have on your speaker. Make sure the metal plate that connects the binding posts is removed (as it overides the crossover you are attempting to engage)
Good luck, let me know if you hear any difference.
Josh |
Bronze Member Username: Rh1
Post Number: 48
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 09:04 pm: |
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Thanks! I am glad to see that I was right in my "epiphany", I think perhaps I didn't use the right terminology to describe what was in my head.
Any suggestions on what company puts out a good bi-wire cable that's inexpensive. |
Bronze Member Username: Yshuaw
Los Angeles,
CA
Post Number: 11
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 03:15 am: |
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Newbie-
I haven't used thiscompany, but a few of my friends swear by them...They are (according to my friends, with higher grade systems than mine) reference quality speaker cables that are cheaper than some of the monster lines, and cheaper than most any custom company.
http://signalcable.com/speaker_cables.html |
swampcat Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 07:38 pm: |
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I have bi wired klipsch speakers hooked up to a 200wpc amp. using two 15 foot 10 gauge cables. There is no sound diference!!! I have extra cables and hooked it up to see if theres a diference and just left it that way. Dont waste your money. Speakers are connected at amp the same as jumpers on speaker end. Any sound diference will require a vivid amagination. Everybody reads the hype and believes it. They convince themselves they hear a diference. There is no scientific reason why it would work. Think about it? |
swampcat Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 07:52 pm: |
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Another thing ,the bi wire set uses Monster cable two sets 10 guage cables per speaker I have another set of klipsch towers of similar design using radio shacks best speaker cable (99% copper) Again there is no sound difference! The thicker the better and copper content the rest is all hype. Everybody save your money and put it towards your amps, speakers, disc players or just save it ,you can not hear wire! |
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| Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:10 pm: |
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swampcat: there is actually a scientific reason for it to work. I quote:
"Running separate wires from the amplifier can have a profound impact on relieving the tweeter circuit from the back flush of EMF (elector-motive force) generated by the woofer. When the audio signal to the woofer ceases, such as when a loud bass note is finished, the woofer tries to stop moving. In trying to stop, it actually goes through a process of "settling" because it is too massive to just stop instantly. As it settles, it moves forward and backward repeatedly until it can completely come to rest. During this movement, as the voice coil is moving through the field of the magnet, it generates its own signal. That generated signal is sent backward up the woofer wires and into the crossover, where it corrupts the rest of the music signal."
above quote is from:
http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm
which gives a pretty good description of the issue in my opinion. You have to have a pretty good setup to start with though, to notice a difference. |
swampcat Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 05:37 pm: |
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nauruk
your saying I cant hear the difference on my radio shack speakers.
Klipsch fed me something like that too. Thats why I tried it in the first place.
plus they said
"In bi wire systems the amp sees a higher impendance on the tweeter cable at low frequencies, and a lower impendance at high frequencies. The opposite is true in the woofer half of the bi wired pair
This causes the signal to be split up, with high frequencies traveling mostly in the pair driving the speakers tweeter circuit and the low in a similair manor to the woofer.
This frequency splitting reportedly reduces magnetic interaction in the cable, resulting in better sound. The large magnetic fields set up around the conductors by the low-frequency energy can not affect the transfer of treble energy. No one knows exactly why bi wireing works, but on nearly all speakers with bi wire capabilities, it makes a big improvement in sound.( As quoted from speaker rep.)
Ive been that route You cant hear the difference but it sells speakers and alot more cable.
I've bi amped my speakers and heard a difference. Its important to match the GAIN of both amps so one dosent play louder than the other.
My speakers are presently bi wired, I have no reason to change it, but theirs no difference in sound.
Just having fun with radio shack speakers. |
swampcat Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 05:53 pm: |
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Its all words no real reason why it would work . Even Klipsch stated no one knows exactly why it works.
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