Where do I start?

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 272
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 03:05 pm:

With gas prices so high and my car only getting 12 mpg, I don't get to enjoy being in my car as much as I want to. I've decided to take a break from car audio and get into home audio. I assume its the same concepts.

I'm a college student so the set up will be going in a small apartment. I only care to listen to music so i am guessing a 5.1 system is fine. My major set back is my spending money is small so i know it will take many steps in completing my system. At this point i only have 400 or so to spend.

Where do i start?

Thanks,
Ben Quirk

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 273
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 03:24 pm:

I do not know much about brands. I really don't care about looks, only sound. I already have a powered sub made by proficient audio (don't know how that compares). I don't care much about the bells and whistles on a receiver, I just want it to do its job well. Please guide me in the right direction.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10502
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 03:38 pm:

2 speakers and an integrated amp, both pre-loved.
Music sourced from a pc with files in FLAC or Apple lossless, NOT MP3.

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 274
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 03:43 pm:

Thanks Nuck for responding. Can you guide me to some brand names to look at for speakers and for an integrated amp?

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 275
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 06:13 pm:

Maybe I'm not asking on the right forum. Can someone at least point to me where I can find out more information on brands to look at?

Jan Vigne

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12802
Registered: May-04

Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 07:48 pm:

.

Probably not. Audio brands are like any other brand, you like what you like. Read a few of the archived threads here and you'll see what is generally liked and what is left behind. Receivers are, for the most part, not what you want to look at for good music reproduction. Stick with integrated amplifiers. Tell us about the brands you have access to that sell integrated amplifiers. Where have you shopped? Between SA and Austin there are several good audio shops to visit.

If you just want music, you would do best without a 5.1 system as there's very little music available in discrete 5.1 format. Stick with two channels and a good source. Establish a budget and tell us about the space the system will inhabit and what type of music you'll want to play. And then we can give more information but as is you are asking us to provide answers when we don't know the questions.

.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10504
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 08:33 pm:

Ben, have you looked at stereo shops near you or just big blah stores?
Your price is hard to meet, but it can be done and add some pizazz.

That said, a pair of Athena 2.2 and a H/K stereo receiver could be done...

Chris H

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 364
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 08:50 pm:

$400 is tough. Maybe an ipod with FLAC files and a decent set of cans. Other than that, you're going to have to spend some time looking for some real deals on used equipment.

Don't buy new at that price range. You'll get crap if you try to buy speakers, amp, and source for $400. I mean REAL crap.

Frank Abela

Gold Member

Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire
UK

Post Number: 3064
Registered: Sep-04

Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 09:32 am:

For $400 one of the best brands to look at is NAD. They make musical enjoyable kit. Car audio is very different from home audio. With car audio, you adjust loads of parameters attempting to get the best balance of sound depending on the nature of the car. With home audio, it's more usual to spend on less but higher quality components. Rooms react to sound in more reliable ways than do car cabins so home audio components tend to be made with this in mind. With home audio less is more. If you haven't spent a chunk of your outlay on an equaliser, the money has gone into a better CD player or amplifier.

Good luck in your search!
Frank.

Silver Member

Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 123
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 01:12 pm:

Nuck is right.

Go with a 2 channel system.

Integrated amp is a perfect place to start. Assuming you already have a PC or MAC, there is your source.

You will have NO other option but to buy used with your $400 budget. Unless you are satisfied with a JVC mini system or something.

I would recommend that you buy get a $400 dollar budget for speakers, and another for the amp.

Dont buy crap simply so you can have it all now.

If you buy a $400 integrated you will be VERY motivated to save another $400 for new speakers.

Amp Brands?
- NAD, as said above.
- Rotel
- Integra

For Speakers
- Energy
- PSB

Good luck!

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 276
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 08:31 pm:

Thanks guys, Ill check out those brands. In a month I should be able to add $800-1200 to my budget so I hope that will help a little.

Some answers to question's you all asked: I enjoy listening to almost everything. My setup will be in a living room of an apartment on my school campus however I do not have the dimensions of the room (I am home for summer). I have no problem with using my computer as a source until I have enough money to buy a receiver. I have not checked out any specific home audio shops mainly because I don't know any (becides "big blah" stores as Nuck said). I know it may take lots of time in order for me to be able to put together a decent system, but I will do what ever I can do to do it right the first time.

One of my first questions. If I want to keep my options open for a 5.1 system, can I buy a 2.1 speaker setup now and in the future add two more to the same integrated amp? Or are integrated amps built specific to one setup(2.1, 5.1, 7.1)?

Jan Vigne

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12803
Registered: May-04

Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 12:10 am:

.

Why do you want a 5.1 system?

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 277
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 03:13 pm:

I just want to hear the music the way it is meant to be heard. In my car I can tell with several artist a clear difference between the back channels playing pure instrumental and the front channels playing vocal and instrumental. That difference is not that important to me but it came to mind to ask. I'll be fine with 2.1.

Silver Member

Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 125
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 04:17 pm:

Ben,

Excuse me?

Did you say you have multichannel music in your car? I am not sure what you think you are hearing, but trust that the same info is going to your front and rear speakers.

If it sounds differently it is solely because your rear speakers cannot reproduce the musis accurately, or the same as the fronts.

If you want to integrate the two systems then get a 5.1 receiver and use the pre-amp outputs to go to an external 2 channel amp for the fronts.

Here is your Future Kit....

Yamaha or Integra 5.1 Receiver
Adcom or Rotel 2 Channel Amplifier
Energy speakers all around, C series.
Energy sub (8.3)
Your choice of source (be it TT, DVD, CD, PC, Streamer etc... or any combination)

This way when you are listening to music only, the 2 channel amp will do the work.

And when listening to 5.1 the Yammy only needs to power the center and surrounds.

You can buy Energy almost anywhere and I would recommend going to listen to them here:

The Source is 3.8 miles away located at:

126 W. Rector Ste 114
San Antonio , TX 78216
USA

Tel: 210-342-5766

AUDIO BY DESIGN is 74.1 miles away located at:

911 WEST ANDERSON LANE #1
AUSTIN , TX 78757
USA

Tel: (512)458-1667

Then you can look around for used if they are available. But the c series is VERY forgiving on the wallet new.

Start with a source and the receiver, and front speakers.

Then add the 2 channel amp.

Then add the center, surrounds and sub as funds permit.

Take your time.

-Patrick

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10521
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 05:44 pm:

Hey Pat, where is a Burger King nearby?

Jan Vigne

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12804
Registered: May-04

Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 12:03 am:

.

Any parking up close to the building?

Silver Member

Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 131
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 02:05 pm:

Both of you!! ;)

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 278
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 02:18 pm:

Yeah my rear speakers are crummy low end Pioneers so they probably don't pick up everything that my front Focals are picking up.
Thanks Patrick, your advise is very helpful.

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 279
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 11:23 am:

I went by "The Source" today to search for a pair of c- 500's and a receiver. They did not have any in stock however he let me listen to what he said was a step up from the 500s. He said they were the C-70 or something like that but I can't find anything in the C series that is a step up from the 500's.

They said they could order me the c-500 for 680 not including tax. Is that a fair price? He told me to go with one of his "maranty 4021" recievers for $400. I suppose he didn't know how to spell it when writing it down for me because I could not find anything online.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10528
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 01:03 pm:

Ben, dude, you gotta stay away from places like that and spend more time here. Really.

Step back and realign your focus.
What do you want, as opposed to need, and what are your realistic resources?

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 280
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 01:39 pm:

All I want is a decent 2.1 system that can play music at high levels but with precision and clarity. Resources-- as in $? I have at this point $800 in spending money. The longer I wait the more $ I have in my budget. Initially on the first two speakers and receiver I would like to stay around the 700-1000 price range. I would also like to use my laptop or Zune as my source.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10532
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 03:38 pm:

If your laptop or Zune uses lossless files such as wav or apple, then you will be much happier.
I suggest looking into a Harmon Kardon 3380 receiver and maybe a pair of Athena f2.2 speakers.
Both available at CC.

Otherwise, look up your local stereo shop and look at the pre-loved equipment, along with Audiogon.com

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 281
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 06:05 pm:

cc? -circuit city?

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10535
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 02:17 am:

yes, Ben.
bb or cc.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10536
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 02:19 am:

The Athena speakers are very good budget speakers, they play plenty loud, and HK receiver is good with them.

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 282
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 09:06 am:

Alright thanks. Ill check out bb and cc today. The F2.2 states it's Power Handling at 250w per channel. Would the Harmon Kardon 3380 be sufficient at only 80w a channel or would I be clipping the Athenas at higher levels?

Stu Pitt

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 2904
Registered: May-05

Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 09:44 am:

The power rating on the speakers is relatively meaningless. It means how much power they can handle, and not how much they should have. Some speaker companies have a spec that states 'Recommended amplifier power: 20 watts-200 watts.' That one is a little better, but just an approximation as well.

A better way to determine if an amp is powerful enough is the sensitivity and impedence. A lower sensitivity and/or low impedence rating will somewhat tell if a speaker is difficult to drive or not. An 84 db speaker with a 4 ohm nominal impedence isn't going to be very easy to drive.

There are some speakers that are relatively easy to drive, even though they have specs like the ones I listed, due to a bunch of different variables such as phase angle, impedence curve, etc.

The Athenas are relatively easy to drive, and the H/K has a real world 80 watts pre channel. A lot of companies inflate their power ratings by measuring in unrealistict, best case scenario conditions. H/K doesn't. They're one of the most reliable companies in this regard.

Just because it's rated at 80 watts doesn't mean its constantly pushing out 80 watts. You'll probably never use all 80. Most people really use about 30-40 watts rms tops.

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10539
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 11:22 am:

Ben, if you want a class in actual electronics of amps and speakers, you have found the right place.

The H/K and Athena pairing is a proven one.

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 283
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 03:14 am:

Alright, I went to both Best Buy and Circuit City and neither of them carry Athena anymore. They tried to get me into Polk and klipsch for the same price range (Under 600) but both did not have the sound quality I had in mind. They did interest me in a 5.1 set of Mirage Nanosat 5 speakers that seemed to have good clarity at high volume but require buying a new sub to make up for the lack of lower frequencies.

Tomorrow I'm going to keep searching for Athena. Anyone know an online dealer?

Kevin Corr

Silver Member

Username: Kevincorr

Fairbanks, Alaska
Usa

Post Number: 541
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 07:57 am:

Maybe you can find a used hifi store like this: http://www.hawthornestereo.com/used/
I have several times gone in there and put together cheap systems by trusting their advice. You will get a much better system that way than in the box stores. There is a lot of good but old gear laying around. Just ask our garage sale shopping friends on this forum!

You can't afford to worry about brand so much as putting a compatible system together.

An example of a good sounding receiver that I bought in the used store: http://www.audioweb.com/P/PInfo.asp?pid=161302. Now that I got my new Rega and Rotel int amps I don't use it any more. Make me an offer.
I used to use it with a Cambridge Audio CD player which sells very cheap too for the quality. See AudiogoN for those.

Kevin Corr

Silver Member

Username: Kevincorr

Fairbanks, Alaska
Usa

Post Number: 542
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 08:02 am:

Like this: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1220793527

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 284
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 08:14 pm:

Thank's for the sites. Best buy is having a sale for the HK AVR- 146 at $300 including tax. Is that a good buy?

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 285
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 11:18 pm:

Also AudioAdvisor.com is selling Athena Ls- 500's for 150 each. Can anyone please give me input on how they sound? I wish I could hear them but I can't find an Athena dealer in San Antonio.

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 286
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 02:23 am:

Well. I went ahead and ordered a pair of the LS- 500s from AudioAdviser.com. I figure For 370 including shipping I cant go wrong to far. Now my priory is a receiver. I am still thinking the HK AVR- 146 at $300 including tax. Input on this buy??

Nick K

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 1665
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 08:11 am:

its a decent buy Ben. If you shop around, for around 400 you can get an entry level Onkyo, NAD T743, or Cambridge Audio 540r all on blow out. All three would be far better in the sound quality department IMO than that of the H/K 146. Its your ears though.

David Mitchell

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 1172
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 08:16 am:

Yup, it's a good buy, but from what I've heard other people say, the HK is great for HT but not so great for music.

Take Nick's suggestion and look at the Cambridge 540R. It's a solid unit, good for both HT and music.

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 287
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 01:11 pm:

wow, the Onkyo TX- SR575 7.1 is on sale at Circuit City for 250. Would that be sufficient and have sound quality powering the ls- 500s?

Other options
NAD T743- $400 (50wpc x 5)
Cambridge Audio 540R V2- $400 (80wpc @ 6.1)

Silver Member

Username: Pcstockton

Post Number: 147
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 01:59 pm:

I would stick with a 5.1 if you can. There is no reason to pay for the extra amps, nor can it help to overall sound of the receiver to jam extra amplifiers inside.

5.1 is perfect and will be sufficient for years to come.

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 288
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 05:27 pm:

So with the options above are you saying go for the NAD with 5.1 (note that its also refurbished) at only 50wpc or for the same price should I go with a new Cambridge at 80wpc however being a 6.1 receiver?

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 289
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 05:56 pm:

I'm also really considering the HK 3490 with 120w x 2. for ~300. The only thing keeping me back is knowing I wont be able to add more speakers in the future.
I am also thinking the Cambridge reciever may be a good buy because of the stereo two channel feature switching to from 80 x 5 to 100 x 2.

David Mitchell

Gold Member

Username: Dmitchell

Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Post Number: 1174
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 06:35 pm:

Ben, PM me if you have any specific questions about the CA. I have one...

Michael Wodek

Gold Member

Username: Mike3

Wylie, Tx
USA

Post Number: 1370
Registered: May-06

Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 11:59 pm:

my 2 cents

http://about.pricegrabber.com/user_sales_getprod.php?masterid=67294715&lot_id=89 30281

Onkyo 606 $369

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

Silver Member

Username: Quirky

SA, Texas

Post Number: 290
Registered: Feb-07

Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 12:07 am:

Thanks guys for the help. I went ahead and ordered the Cambridge. My speakers and receiver should be in by next Wednesday. For now, all I need are wires.
Is there a quality difference in speaker wire? What gage is ideal?

P Galbraith

Gold Member

Username: Petergalbraith

Canada

Post Number: 2185
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 12:40 pm: