Using home gear for a bar?

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 278
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 03:52 pm:

Chris, most people really have little idea what is good for them. It's like saying that doctors should just give patients what they want, rather than spending the time to find out what they NEED. What people want and need are often two entirely different things. I've had people 'want' things that are in no way related to the problems they are experiencing. I would make more money selling people what they 'want', but then I'd have the same kind of constantly unhappy people that my competitor has, always trying to fix problems that the last fix didn't get, nor the one before that. Then I go out, find the problem, fix it relatively inexpensively after they've messed around and wasted $20K. Sometimes the only problem was an acoustic problem, like a glass coffee table or the speakers improperly setup. Coulda sold a $5000 DAC maybe, but I'd rather fix that actual problem. Selling what people what they need is in their best interest. The people that often waste the most money are those that buy what they 'want' because they think they know more than people in the industry (not that everyone in this industry is entirely honest).

Relevant Product Info

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 279
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 03:54 pm:

Well, Nick, the next time I do sound for a batting cage, i'll be sure to put in JBLs

Nick K

Gold Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 1546
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 04:05 pm:

lol Don't laugh, my local batting cages have pro JBL speakers in them.

Gavin

Gold Member

Username: Gavdawg

Albany, New York

Post Number: 1147
Registered: Nov-06

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 04:13 pm:

"It's like saying that doctors should just give patients what they want, rather than spending the time to find out what they NEED."

you just made yourself sound like an even bigger idiot with that than you did before! He knows what he NEEDS!

Nuck

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10269
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 05:10 pm:

And wants.

Same as JV used to sell.
Find out how they listen, show 'em what can be done properly, then let the customer decide.

I had a 'stylist' refuse to chop off my long, long hair.
The cutter in the next booth had to do it, got 10$, and the hair.(went to a wig shop).

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 280
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 05:26 pm:

Gavin, you calling me an 'idiot' is a nice compliment. If you agreed with me, I'd be worried.

Nuck, there's a difference between you paying someone to do what you want, such as cut your hair to solve your 'too much hair' problem, and having someone cut your leg off to solve your 'too much hair' problem. We get people ALL THE TIME who want to solve their crappy sound with a DAC (even though they have Bose speakers) or solve their overdamped room with a more powerful amp or want to mate $2500/pr towers with a $300 subwoofer or use the wrong center speaker just because it's more expensive or think that their bad sounding speakers are 'revealing' the bad sound of their preamplifier. I'm not going to overlook nearly 20 yeas of experience dealing with this stuff because that's "what the customer wants".

I have a saying, "the customer is OFTEN wrong, but they always have a point". The thing to do is figure out what that point is and deal with it. Not just assume the customer actually understands what they need. I can't tell someone what amp or speaker they'll prefer, but I do know enough that if they describe the problem and their equipment, I can almost always figure out the real culprit and fix it, a whole lot easier than they can with little to no experience. Customers generally know just enough to be dangerous. The ones that really know what they want *and* need are few and far between and those get all the respect they deserve, the others get all the help and advice they need.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 281
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 05:38 pm:

Here's a good story. A guy came in and said he "needed" a car amp that was stable into .5 ohm. He was sure it existed and that's what he 'wanted'. I'm not a car guy at all, but I started asking questions. He was a really arrogant kid, suspicious of every question, but basically, he was wiring, as I recall, eight 12" four ohm car subs in parallel. Why? Who the hell knows. In any case, I just told him to wire them differently and get a good 4 ohm amp so he didn't set his car on fire. And maybe that he didn't need 8 subs in a car.

Same guy came back. He thought he was getting the deal of a lifetime on PSB 1000 speakers "half price" at a competitor, but wanted to know what we sold for around $1000. I showed him, but he said he was getting a better deal on the 1000s for only $1000. I told him that this was retail, so it was full price. He said they were $2000/pr speakers for $1000/pr. I told he was either confused or being lied to, so I showed him the retail price from a magazine. He got huffy with me and stormed off as though I was the guy who was lying to me (with my elaborately planted magazines, I suppose).

Funny thing is that he's been back a half a dozen times over the years, coming in cocksure he has all the answers and each time I have to explain reality to him, each time he gets kinda pissy or looks at me like I'm lying to him and he heads off to, I guess, get ripped off again.

A guy yesterday called wanting to fix his JVC "Tower of Power" system that broke. He went into great detail as to how great it was, how expensive it was and I had to keep telling him to just let it go. I'm sure he'll bumble around trying to get it fixed, but it's a $250 all in one ghetto style portable with a DVD changer that was lucky to last all of the year that it did.

I have these things happen pretty much every day. I could have lied and told him how great his portable was and take in a $75 deposit like many do here and then tell him it's $200 to fix. Well, that's what you guys would have me do since you think everyone knows more about audio than I do.......

Nuck

Platinum Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 10271
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 06:17 pm:

It must be nice to meet idiots every day, rather than blather to them on a forum, like we all have to,JA.

And yes, some of us do know more than you, John...deal with it.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 282
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 07:20 pm:

Well, I clearly meet more 'idiots' on forums like this than in real life. There are customers that know enough to not need me, there are those that think they know enough not to need me and then there are those that know enough to know that they need the advice. The middle ones are the ones that only listen to the person with the biggest line of BS. Jan probably would have done well with them.

You clearly don't know more, so I don't know that I'd use the word 'us' in your case. Maybe you should just be less obnoxious and worry about yourself more rather than running around insulting people you don't know.

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 324
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 07:59 pm:

John, please don't bang your head trying to fit it out through the door when you leave. And once you DO make it through the door, please give the people you find there to talk down to our sincere condolences.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 283
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 08:14 pm:

Chris, it's not ego, it's my JOB. I have been doing it every day for 15+ years. It's not a hobby, it's not something I just screw around with. My customers actually like me if you can believe that so there are no condolences necessary. It's amazing that people think that playing around with something gives them more knowledge than people that do it every day for a living. THAT is ego.

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 325
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 08:24 pm:

Yep, that's right John. You're BETTER than everyone here....cuz your a "professional"....but you're NOT conceited.

BWAAAHAAAAHAAHAAA !!! You're killing me. BWAAAHAAHAAHAAAAAA !!! Hooo....boy.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 284
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 08:44 pm:

When did I say I was 'better'? I'm just good at what I do. I assume you are good at what you do and better at it and more knowledgeable than I am with respect to it. I'm confident in what I do and what I say. That's normal and healthy, last I checked. A little more healthy, anyway, than personally attacking people as you and others do.

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12658
Registered: May-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 09:57 pm:

.

"Jan probably would have done well with them."

Look, d!ckhead, that remark was uncalled for. I've not said anything to you for quite awhile now no matter how stupid I thought your advice was. You call others for insults that you make with ease. Lay off the insults directed at me, @sshole. This is a forum not your playground. And do me one favor - gofuckyourself!

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 285
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 10:03 pm:

I just think it's ironic, that's all. I think I'm behind on insulting you by about 20:1.

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12659
Registered: May-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 11:29 pm:

.

You're not. Stop the stupid games. You don't want to be insulted, don't insult others. This forum can do without your petty crap.

This idiotic little game you play where you're always the victim of the insult while you merrily go about attacking everyone else is for five year olds. Grow up and gofuckyourself - not in that order.

If you intend to help someone on a thread, do so. Insults don't fit into helping anyone, they only feed your overblown ego. You can make your case for your choice in equipment without saying a word about me. Stop being a pr!ck.

No reply necessary - just stop being a pr!ck.

.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 286
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 11:36 pm:

Someone needs to take their own advice!

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 326
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 06:36 am:

Indeed they do.

Gavin

Gold Member

Username: Gavdawg

Albany, New York

Post Number: 1148
Registered: Nov-06

Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:16 am:

I think that the more appropriate thing would be for JA to stop acting like a tool.

Gavin

Gold Member

Username: Gavdawg

Albany, New York

Post Number: 1149
Registered: Nov-06

Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:17 am:

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 287
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 10:44 am:

Someone needs to follow their own advice (again)

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12661
Registered: May-04

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 06:29 am:

.

Someone needs to grow up. This is a forum, fishy. Its purpose is to assist others. It is not a contest. You don't always have to have the last word - which means you do not have to respond to this other than, "Yes, I understand now", and your last words need not always be an insult to someone. Doing so only makes you look like a pitiful little brat. So, go ahead and look like a five year old with a hard on - post an insult to this - I know you can't resist.

If you came here to insult people, you can leave at any time and not be missed. If you came to make this a contest of who someone believes, you can leave at any time and not be missed. If you came here to help others with their problems and situations, then stop the BS and do just that. This thread should be about 25 posts long. As it stands 80% of this thread's 125+ posts has resulted from your interference and insults. That is ridiculous and uncalled for. Do what the forum was meant to do and leave the personal stuff on your own forum. You are wasting people's time and not helping them solve problems.

Got it?

Then do something about it.

Now go ahead and prove you cannot act like an adult.

.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 288
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 10:28 am:

This is what is known as 'projection' amongst therapists ^

So, yes, I do understand you very well.

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12663
Registered: May-04

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:26 am:

.

I knew you couldn't do it!

ROTFLMAO

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 289
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:37 am:

And i knew you couldn't be anything but childish in your responses. So what?

Personally, I think the reason you and others like to insult and harass others on forums is that if you tried it in real life, you'd get hospitalized. So this is a good way of trying to feel 'superior' to others by denigrating them and at no serious risk to your person.

The irony here is that you resort to insults and attacks the moment anyone gives advice different from your own, rather than letting your advice stand on its own two feet. This is what causes the mayhem you claim bothers you, not the fact that people have different opinions. Shall we count how many childish remarks and insults each of us made to see who is the real problem here?

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 328
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 12:20 pm:

In reality John, when the OP Dave posted his decision, all that was needed was a....Great Dave, I hope that works for you.....or some such kindness. Not a couple of posts questioning his decision and telling him in so many words he's screwing up.

IF you actually hung around here you'd understand that, and you'd understand that noone (other than YOU) is trying to ram their own bias down others throats. They give advice, thoughts, etc and let the individual do the rest. Sometimes they take the advice, sometimes not. Once they make their decision, for heavens sake don't ruin it for them. It's not your ears and it's not your money. And it's not a competition.

I know you don't get that, and I know your reply will be more "it's them, not me". But the fact is, almost everyone gets along here, differences and all. If you're getting a rough ride, there is a reason other than difference of opinion, as there are plenty of differences of opinion on this board. You've been told the reason why, but you simply won't accept it, because YOU'RE ALWAYS RIGHT ! (hint, hint).

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 290
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 01:03 pm:

Chris, you could be right *except* that I think he's basing some of the decision based on an incorrect assumption that pro gear is automatically more reliable than good audio gear. As he said in the post, the bar had been run with home gear previously, apparently with no downside, he said he was more comfortable with home gear in terms of setting up and maintaining. I wasn't the one that convinced him to go against his inclinations based on flimsy assumptions. I have dealt with this issue quite a bit over the last 15 years, but again, there were lots of flimsy assertions that I don't know what I'm talking about. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about having the experiencing doing exactly what he is talking about. I'm sure he'll be okay, but I will go on record as saying that the EV stuff that is probably in his budget is pretty mediocre in my all too recent experience. This job is going to be one where we claim no credit since, while we are getting it working, we really don't want to be associated with that level of quality sound.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 291
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 01:06 pm:

Besides, when you have to take apart the amp on a $15K powered speaker or two and send it in and wait for a few weeks to get it back, you'll understand my POV a little better.

Gold Member

Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA
United States

Post Number: 1180
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 02:13 pm:

"Besides, when you have to take apart the amp on a $15K powered speaker or two and send it in and wait for a few weeks to get it back, you'll understand my POV a little better."

Presuming Dave has a respectable dealer, that's the dealer's problem, not Dave's. Of course, it sounds like he's going with passive pro gear in any event.

"Chris, you could be right *except* that I think he's basing some of the decision based on an incorrect assumption that pro gear is automatically more reliable than good audio gear."

No, putting "Professional" on something isn't an automatic guarantee of quality.
However, niceties like thick metal grills to protect the drivers, a cabinet built for abuse versus sitting in a living room, a warranty that covers commercial use, protection against blowing a speaker, etc sure don't hurt in a bar scene.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 292
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 02:22 pm:

Stefano, I never said differently. My main thing is that I couldn't live with the sound quality loss at a typically higher price. It reminds me of movie theaters when they play music through the speakers and you realize how bad the sound is through most of this stuff. We try to make a bar environment sound *better* that what people have at home. Reliability seems to come along for the ride with the good products.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 293
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 02:24 pm:

BTW, nice that you and Art can disagree with me without the name calling and insults. Maybe others can learn from that.

Gold Member

Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA
United States

Post Number: 1181
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 02:33 pm:

"My main thing is that I couldn't live with the sound quality loss"

Keep in mind sound quality is a very subjective thing. For that 2% of us that would qualify ourselves as audio enthusiasts or audiophiles, yeah we probably wouldn't much care for a good chunk of affordable pro equipment. That other 98% that cling to Bose, their iPods with craptastic earbuds, etc on the other hand would probably be impressed with the dynamic capability and low distortion of a halfway decent pro system. And why not, when I go to concerts, they're using the same speakers!

"Reliability seems to come along for the ride with the good products."

Reliability comes along when products are used in the manner for which they were designed. If you expect a speaker to be able to take a solid punch from a drunk, you'd want something designed for that. Most home speakers just aren't. There are several pro speakers that are.

Gold Member

Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA
United States

Post Number: 1182
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 02:38 pm:

"BTW, nice that you and Art can disagree with me without the name calling and insults."

I find it unfortunate that audio is a deeply divisive hobby, especially when most people could probably agree on most stuff, but due to what I'll call miscommunication, fail to.

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 12665
Registered: May-04

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 02:51 pm:

.

Who here is buying a $15k powered speaker? The inference is irrelevant to the discussion. Going from, "there's no need for booming loud sound", to, "it was designed more for the type of abuse it will be taking", I don't believe DS is planning on using his system in the same way the previous owner used his. He has made his decision and, if he screws up, no one's going to blame you, fishy. If he needs more help, he'll ask. Till then don't p!ss in his Cheerios.

.

Art

Gold Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 6903
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 02:53 pm:

I think that we (all of us in this hobby) tend to get deeply invested in our own dogma and begin to view our own opinions relative to what is in the end a very subjective hobby as "the truth".

In the end all I can really bring to the party is my own ears...are there technical facts that we can discuss that have some bearing on sound...ofcourse...however I believe that the variables are so great and the unknown so vast...that we can't know how anyone will percieve the sound of a system or component.

My wife is in her office just a few feet away from me (here in my office)...she's listening to her 1981 Kenwood receiver connected to a Sony changer and pair of very nice little Pinnacle bookshelf speakers...she's just jammin' to some Elmo Hope. To her it sounds fabulous...to me it's lacking something (at least). Remember she hears my systems all the time but to her that little system of hers is just the bee's knee's.

To audio and all of us crazy's involved in it....Salud!

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 294
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 03:00 pm:

Well, keep in mind that we do keep all of our bar speakers in the ceiling or up high on a wall where no one is likely to damage them!

And people are really impressed with what we do. The bar and waitstaff at the last big job we did (NHT IC4s/iWS and Sonos) go on about how much better the system is than the pro system it replaced and how it makes the work environment dramatically better. I really do believe it makes a real difference even when the audience is not filled audio buffs.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 295
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 03:10 pm:

Art, I think if you say something with conviction because you believe it, people think that is the same as "you're always right!" But if you have conviction, it's also easier to accept someone disagreeing because it doesn't influence your world and you don't feel the need to make the personal attacks. Oh, sure, I've got enough child in me to respond to a personal attack eventually, but hell, it's just audio. It's not like we're physicians arguing over which treatment is going to save someone's life. I personally don't have any problem with Dave going pro. I'm sure it will work just fine. I only disagree that it is necessarily a more reliable way to go because our stuff has been so incredibly reliable for us. Only when a customer manages to convince us to put in lesser gear than we think should be in there do we run into issues, but we got pretty smart about that early on.

Gold Member

Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA
United States

Post Number: 1183
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 03:23 pm:

"Well, keep in mind that we do keep all of our bar speakers in the ceiling or up high on a wall where no one is likely to damage them!"

But they can still be blown, and potentially won't be warranted for commercial use (at least by companies that sell speakers for commercial use). Of course I'm sure you also recognize that in ceiling speakers and speakers mounted close to the ceiling are hardly ideal for sound quality.

"I really do believe it makes a real difference even when the audience is not filled audio buffs."

I have no doubt that you can put together a system that sounds better than the average bar/restaurant install. However, there are a number of factors that determine the quality of the final sound, not the least of which is the quality of the installation job (especially when you get into in ceiling work). And of course there is no mention of what the prior gear is or how the new gear is perceived as better. Then again, in my experience, the average schmoe wants slam and lots of clean sound. Even Cerwin Vega can handle that.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 296
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 04:31 pm:

Hey, I've seen plenty of blown pro speakers too! Anything can be blown. Good inceiling speakers can sound quite decent compared to a lot of things and a speaker that is recessed is better off acoustically than one that is close to a wall, I'm sure you recognize this as well - less diffraction and reflection to deal with. And in the our case, better dispersion throughout the area with fewer hot/cold spots.

As for the other gear, I forget the brand, it got tossed out. Not JBL or anything, but it was designed for commercial environments. The EV stuff we just installed is pretty mediocre. Bose has a pro divison too. Very reliable. Sounds incredibly bad.

Silver Member

Username: Hawkbilly

Nova Scotia
Canada

Post Number: 331
Registered: Jul-07

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 04:40 pm:

"Chris, you could be right *except* that I think..."

For me the important part is bolded. That's what you think, so great. Other people may disagree, so at some point let it go. Whether it's based on an incorrect assumption or not is now irrelevent, and a matter of opinion. When do you stop arguing that you're right ?

And changing the discussion to "well, he might have what he wants but not what he needs" is terribly condescending IMO. Like you said, it's just audio.

Gold Member

Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA
United States

Post Number: 1184
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 04:55 pm:

"Hey, I've seen plenty of blown pro speakers too! Anything can be blown."

Perhaps, but its 1000x harder to blow a powered pro monitor than a NHT in wall speaker. Protection circuitry built into the amplifiers ensure that. There are also several passive pro speakers with protection circuitry, such as CV and their defend circuit.

"Good inceiling speakers can sound quite decent compared to a lot of things"

Sure, but they're probably a couple steps off from the PSB bookshelf solution you made earlier (presuming the PSBs had at least respectable placement). Of course, I suspect they aren't cheap either, especially with installation.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 297
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 05:01 pm:

When do you stop arguing that I'm wrong? You seem to have a great ability to detect condescending except when you're doing it - "Yep, that's right John. You're BETTER than everyone here....cuz your a "professional"....but you're NOT conceited. " Maybe you could try not doing that about which you complain as a start.

Silver Member

Username: John_ashman

Albuquerque, NM
United States

Post Number: 298
Registered: Apr-08

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 05:26 pm:

Stefano - 1000x harder? C'mon now. And again, you're back to powered speakers at that point which isn't happening. The protection circuitry in some passive speakers sometimes works, and you could fuse any speaker if you wanted. On the other hand, sometimes they lock up prematurely and you have to go reset or replace them. That's pretty much a wash. Today's speakers can handle amazing amounts of abuse compared to 20 years ago. My point about the inceilings we use is that they're better than the pro stuff we are taking out.

So, basically we have a stalemate. For every reason against using good home gear, I can come up with reasons why it's still a good option. I guess if I had all these major problems others insinuate, I'd be right there with you, but we do a lot of bar/restaurant systems and just don't have the problems. I can't say you'd get the same result going down to Circuit City.

Gold Member

Username: Stefanom

Vienna, VA
United States

Post Number: 1185
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 05:35 pm:

"1000x harder?"

Yup; thats the beauty of a built in amp crafted for the driver its going to drive, with a built in limiter to keep it from killing said driver. With a regular speaker, just keep pushing the volume knob higher and eventually it will die, one way or another.

"The protection circuitry in some passive speakers sometimes works,"

I'd say it works pretty well from what I've seen.

"My point about the inceilings we use is that they're better than the pro stuff we are taking out. "

I don't think that I'd make a blanket statement that they're better than all pro speakers at that price point though, given that you apparently aren't ultra experienced/familiar with them.