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Thread: Best Buy Buys McIntosh |
    
Silver Member Username: Jaw
Post Number: 202
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 12:18 am: |
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?
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/denon-up-for-sale-best-buy-and-ken wood-bidding |
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Relevant Product Info
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Silver Member Username: Jaw
Post Number: 203
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 12:26 am: |
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Oy.
There goes my beloved Snells. |
Silver Member Username: Jazzman71
Phoenix,
AZ
USA
Post Number: 164
Registered: Dec-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 02:15 am: |
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McIntosh for the masses?
Maybe it's a hoax. I have not seen a source cited yet. |
Bronze Member Username: Afj
Gaborone
Botswana
Post Number: 49
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 05:36 am: |
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normally when companies buy out another, unless the product is ailing, they wont change the usp of the product. they would leave it as is. perhaps they would try more channels of distribution but it would be crazy for them to try and market mcintosh as a mass market brand. as long as they run each brand as a separate business with a separate business model and still stress on the values and individuality that the product has, i dont really care who owns the business |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 862
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 09:33 am: |
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Yikes.
I guess this means the 19 year old "audio video specialist" on the floor at BB is gonna be pushing the Denons over the Yammies and Pioneers ;-) |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1392
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 09:50 am: |
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Good Riddens to Denon. They have been a mass market crap product for years, and now they are just fully selling to that market now. *Ouch* My ears.
I did not realize McIntosh was owned by another company. hmmm... |
Silver Member Username: Jaw
Post Number: 204
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 10:11 am: |
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Yamaha develops Audiophile Division: McIntosh and HT synergy.
With all this potentially going down, plus the Harman Int. situation, there's gotta be alot going on behind the scenes. |
Silver Member Username: Magfan
USA
Post Number: 188
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 11:03 am: |
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There goes the neighborhood.....
Say it ain't so. |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 10072
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 04:45 pm: |
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It's so, Leo |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2661
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 07:16 pm: |
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If I'm correct, Mac has been bought and sold a few times in the last decade or two. The designers, assemblers, etc. have all stayed the same. Its been purely a financial thing, with the owners have extremely little, if any say as to what is being made and how its being made.
Of course you never know what will happen tomorrow, but I don't think the Mac people are losing any sleep over it. |
Bronze Member Username: Jvigne
Post Number: 13
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 01:25 pm: |
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What's wrong with Mac for the masses? Why should it be reserved for only the elite? In a system based on the capitalistic model, the primary purpose (of all but non-profit agencies and foundations) is to enhance profit. Obviously the elitist approach that some of you admire wasn't working. I'm glad that "regular Joe's" might now be able to purchase Mac equipment. |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2666
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 01:47 pm: |
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Why do you need to cause problems?
You know damn well everyone is interested because they want to see the product made the same way it has been since the original McIntosh family started making them, and not become a re-badged mass market gear that looks the same and has the price jacked up.
Companies like JBL, Infinity, and Acoustic Research were very good companies until they were bought out and kept around soley for the name. We're hoping that doesn't happen to Mac.
Elitist? Two people here own Mac gear. One has owned it for years, and the other bought second hand.
Go have sex with yourself. |
Bronze Member Username: Jvigne
Post Number: 14
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 02:53 pm: |
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Look at Stupid's response-the exact elitism that I hope Mac will now avoid. And he accuses me of causing problems. What an idiot. |
Bronze Member Username: Funkmeister
Post Number: 68
Registered: Nov-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 04:37 pm: |
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I'm all for it. Power to the people!!! |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1409
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 06:39 pm: |
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"What's wrong with Mac for the masses? Why should it be reserved for only the elite? In a system based on the capitalistic model, the primary purpose (of all but non-profit agencies and foundations) is to enhance profit. Obviously the elitist approach that some of you admire wasn't working. I'm glad that "regular Joe's" might now be able to purchase Mac equipment."
Regular joes will never be able to own MAC based on the fact that an entry level MAC integrated start at around 3 grand. Doesn't matter who owns MAC, MAC will be MAC. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 866
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 07:10 pm: |
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Wouldn't that be MC? |
Silver Member Username: Jaw
Post Number: 205
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 08:30 pm: |
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Or as in Big Mac, like we're gonna sell millions of them.
They own it, they can license it anyway they choose or create line extensions. A HT Mac is not out of the question.
IF BB wins a 49% share and Philips sells them their 12%, BB owns a majority, and they create a vertical pipeline to their stores to do what ever they please - probably their strategic plan. Pay too much for the deal? Fine, there is enough other brand equities left over to divest and buy down the debt.
Same situation at Harman, and this could open a licensing Pandora's Box.
Would your prefer pickles or mustard with your Mac? |
Bronze Member Username: Afj
Gaborone
Botswana
Post Number: 53
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 04:06 am: |
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jv, i think youre missing the point here. the reason why people dont want mcintosh to become a mass market company is not because they dont want more people to be able to own it. but to become a mass market product they will have to make it more affordable and thereby compromise on the quality of the product. in effect (more) people would be able to buy the mcintosh brand at a lower price but then it would sound like a denon |
Bronze Member Username: Jvigne
Post Number: 15
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 07:34 am: |
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I have not missed the point. Your distaste for mass marketing is based on assumptions. There are innumerable products of excellent quality reasonably available to the public. The Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic are excellent examples. Your explanation is a clever attempt to avoid the real issue. |
Bronze Member Username: Afj
Gaborone
Botswana
Post Number: 55
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 10:14 am: |
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"Your explanation is a clever attempt to avoid the real issue" - lol, and in my previous life i was the king of england and am born again to bring back oppression
on a serious note i would be glad if mcintosh could be sold at half the price. THEN I COULD BUY ONE. theres no doubting that the corolla and civic are good cars. but the lexuses and bmws are better. across the market there are people that have different wants ranging from 100 dollar (or less) 2-in-1 to a lot more. and different brands cater to these different segments. each of these brands have defining qualities which people identify and wouldnt want to see it being lost. and as much as certain people dont want to see the mcintosh being branded as a denon (for some reason im stuck on denon), they wouldnt want a denon to stop being a mass market brand. if there WASNT a decent quality mass market brand around then i would be all for mcintosh (or someone) to be there. but since there already are quite a few brands to fill that gap let the people that dont mind spending more for a better quality product have it |
Gold Member Username: Touche6784
USA
Post Number: 1239
Registered: Nov-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 10:17 am: |
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John, the toyota carolla drives like a piece of crap as well as the civic. I don't see how those are good examples of quality reaching the masses. If by quality you mean it does not blow up or need a new engine after a few thousand miles then yes its of great quality. The suspension on those cars are like a two year old designed them with the auto box being as jumpy as a prepubescent boy in a p0rn shop. If you want to keep along with the car analogy lets for argument's sake allow the McIntosh to be some high end car like a Porsche. Can you possibly get Porsche performance in a VW beetle? If you can then I think you need to let VW know. Instead of trying to start crap on the forum for the fun of it with off key comments why don't you try harder to make sense. |
Bronze Member Username: Afj
Gaborone
Botswana
Post Number: 56
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 10:19 am: |
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and the fact is for mcintosh to be a mass market brand it would have to sell at half the price or less and this would compromise the quality of the product, unless it sells its product at a loss |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2667
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 11:22 am: |
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Don't bother argueing with JOHN Vigne, Jimmy Wilson, John Ashman, and a few other "people." They're all the same person with multiple screen names, and here to cause problems.
Using a name like JOHN Vigne should give you an idea of his intentions. |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2668
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 11:26 am: |
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"John, the toyota carolla drives like a piece of crap as well as the civic. I don't see how those are good examples of quality reaching the masses. If by quality you mean it does not blow up or need a new engine after a few thousand miles then yes its of great quality."
Do you own a current Corolla? My wife and I do. Its an excellent car for the money. Its designed for a specific purpose, and excels at it.
My Volvo 850 Turbo is obviously a different drive and feeling. But, its designed for a different driver and purposes. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1411
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 01:25 pm: |
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I agree with Stu- Although you can not compare the performance of a Civic/Corolla to a Porsche. The Civic and Corollo last forever, are engineered to last forever, drive well for the money, oh and are the most sold two vehicles world wide as of this year. I would say they are a great success. Oh and they go forever on a tank of gas as well. My boss owns not one but TWO Porsche's, a 2005 Carrera Turbo, and a 2004 GT3. Sure both drive like race cars and are stupid fast, but he has them both in the repair shop more times than my Civic. LOL. Must be nice to have 300 grand in cars eh. |
Bronze Member Username: Jvigne
Post Number: 16
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 01:40 pm: |
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Stupid is right about the Corolla. Not about much else, I might add. Millions of others agree with that assessment (about the Corolla and maybe my opinion of his general contributions as well). Again, it proves mass marketing does not automatically result in cheap quality. |
Gold Member Username: Touche6784
USA
Post Number: 1240
Registered: Nov-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 04:14 pm: |
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stu, I have driven one for an extended period, about a week and a half when my car was in for body work. It drove like crap. Under 50 mph it was not bad, maybe a good value for the pep it had. over 50-60 mph and it was all over the place. A gust of wind comes by and I am in the next lane of the highway if I am not paying attention. I was merely point out that the example of the cars was bad since we are arguing over the mass production of a high performance product which will always lead to reduction in performance. I know that cars are quite different since high performance cars usually means less reliability, but that is not what the problem was concerning McIntosh and its possible mass production.
I know John Vigne is a troll. It is kinda obvious when he contradicts himself. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1412
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 04:14 pm: |
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Not so much for vehicles. In the electronic world I would say that when the Manufacturer is forced to outset their material to be built on a mass market level (in China) in order to compete with the high volume demands of the mass market world. When they do that, it almost always means a cut back in quality. |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 10089
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 08:36 pm: |
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As soon as the Mac's start getting lighter, then it's a Mc. |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 10090
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 08:37 pm: |
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Wonder how much it costs to ship a 150lb box across the pond? |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1414
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 08:56 pm: |
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lol a lot. |
Silver Member Username: Shawnharman
Post Number: 193
Registered: Dec-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 09:30 pm: |
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does anybody know when this deal is gonna be made, so we know what the future holds for these products? |
Bronze Member Username: Peterhead
Post Number: 11
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 07:48 am: |
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Chris, I see absolutely nothing contradictory in Vigne's posts. What exactly are you referring to? And how do you conclude he is a troll? He has a right to his opinion and it is neither less nor more valuable than yours. This is mostly an opinion thread anyway. Nobody can say as a fact what mass marketing will do for Mac. |
Silver Member Username: Jaw
Post Number: 208
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 06:56 pm: |
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Enough about Mac deals.
I see Arby's just swallowed Wendy's. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 873
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 07:17 pm: |
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No way.
I'd take Arby's over Wendy's any day. |
Silver Member Username: Shawnharman
Post Number: 195
Registered: Dec-05
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| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 10:08 pm: |
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yep I saw that to, even gonna change arby's name to fit wendy's in there. |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2684
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 11:11 pm: |
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I don't care what Arby's and Wendy's do, so long as they and everyone else leave Fatburger alone. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 875
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 08:31 am: |
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We don't have Fatburgers up here Stu. But it sounds delicious. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1427
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 08:32 am: |
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lol Fatburgers? WTF is that? |
Silver Member Username: Jaw
Post Number: 209
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 06:10 pm: |
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http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2005/05/fatburger-_work.php |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 879
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 06:49 pm: |
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That looks a like quite a few steps above Wendys. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1429
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 07:39 pm: |
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Thats all America needs is more fried, junk food restaurants.lol |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2685
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 08:42 pm: |
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Actually, what America needs is more places like Fatburger, and less Mickey D's, Wendy's, and so on.
As crazy as it sounds, Fatburger isn't that bad for you. Nothing is greasy. Burgers and veggies are very fresh, fries are steak fries, oil is healthiest oil, and so on. And its not pre-made garbage that's been sitting around. One of their mottos is "Beware of the Physic Burgers - The ones that were cooked before you ordered them."
Sorry, I'm a big fan. If you ever go anywhere that has one, you have to try it to know what I'm talking about. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6765
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 09:15 pm: |
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I'm ready!!! |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1430
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 09:44 pm: |
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lol I jumped the gun. I thought Fatburger was just another McDonalds. Perhaps I should have researched it before snapping a comment. My bad. Well good on FatBurger then for going against the mass mainstream fast food companies. |
Bronze Member Username: Afj
Gaborone
Botswana
Post Number: 61
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 05:28 am: |
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the problem with a burger isnt in the meat or the veggies. its in the wheat. as with the potatoes in the fries. carbs aint so good for you |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 10101
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 08:01 pm: |
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I'm with Art!
Although the t-bones came offa the grill as 16oz beauties tonight!
New BBQ! |
Silver Member Username: Hannjeff
Halifax,
Nova Scotia
Canada
Post Number: 227
Registered: Jun-06
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| Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 08:29 am: |
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I think the BEST example of mass marketed crap is Bose... They are known for great marketing, and nothing else! |
Bronze Member Username: Peterhead
Post Number: 17
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 05:48 pm: |
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Well I would argue that Bose sounded like crap before they were mass marketed. I can't say that has changed. So your example proves nothing to me. |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 2910
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 01:10 pm: |
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Some observations...
Products made for the mass market are high volume, low profit (relatively speaking) items. The likes of Denon and Yamaha, for example, produce units by the hundred thousand. The buying power of such volume production is such that component is a lot lower, but it also means that component cost has to be kjept lower in order to reduce risk and compete with all the other high volume low profit margin manufacturers.
Traditional McIntosh products have been of the bespoke low volume, high profit margin variety. Any attempt to raise the volume production of such a brand would have consequent reduction in both quality and brand values. It's a bit like sticking a Lexus sticker on a Toyota Corolla. We all know they're owned by the same company (Toyota) and some bits are even made in the same factories by the same people, but a Lexus isn't a Toyota is it?
Then there's the need. The current basket of brands includes both high vo0lume and low volume brands. Better to keep them that way and reserve certain products for one brand and certain other products for the other, wherever each product fits best.
but the fact remains, you won't get a Lexus for Toyota money no matter how hard you try. No point bemoaning the fact; it's not just a question of mass marketing, but a question in this case (there are others where it's not) of production values.
Regards,
Frank. |
Silver Member Username: Magfan
USA
Post Number: 219
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 01:45 pm: |
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Franks comments are pretty good.
Only a few minor points to add.
With autos, when you spend more for a Lexus than Toyota, you are not necessarily getting higher quality. You get more Frills/goodies and a higher level of materials. Better grades of Leather and maybe some real wood trim instead of well-chosen plastic. etc etc.
Production levels of the Accord / Camry are about 1/3million EACH annually. My S-2000 sells fewer in a year than either the above in 2 weeks.
Try a good, hi-end eatery. Great service, great food, artery clogging deserts and a bill that'll finish your coronary.
Try to franchise THAT.
Your need for calories will be just as well satisfied at the local chain, but you know where you'd rather dine.
If Mac goes Mass-Market....maybe that is the approach. Maintain a 'custom line' of the current products. Keep the same staff and manufacture. Don't Screw With This!!!!!!!
Start a second line...maybe 'MacLite' and go for larger numbers. Use the mass market stuff to subsidize the exclusive line? Make SURE you can tell the difference in labeling, so the 'brag factor' remains. Reserve the look for ONLY the hi-end line.
If you use Honda/Acura Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infiniti as a model you should be able to make it work.
NOBODY wants Mac to go away. Hopefully, the new owners won't just suck the life out of it and go on about there money-grubbing existence. |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2709
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 01:54 pm: |
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Hopefully they won't put Mac's famous blue meters and illuminated glass front panel on a Denon AVR, raise the price 50% and call it a Mac for the masses.
I'm all for an affordable Mac for the masses, so long as its a Mac in every way and built by Mac (in Binghamton, NY). If they can do that without sacrificing design and build quality, they deserve a Nobel Prize. |
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