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Thread: Help me to choice a B&W loudspeaker |
    
New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 05:58 am: |
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Hi,
My budget is up to $1500 and the current candidates are B&W 705, CM1, 683, 685. Because the local store don't have whole of them to illustrate to me, I think I have to go to another bigger city to listen. So, that's why I want to get some of your opinions here.
I found the most reviews on 705 is very good, but few are not because some people think that the 705 is too bright and they think it might have something to do with it's too high and unusual crossover of 3700Hz between tweeter and woofer. So my first question will be: does the 705 really so bright? I will mainly be listening classical music including symphonies, concerts/sonatas, solos, operas and so on.
The second question is: if 705 is too bright, how about the CM1? Will be a problem its too small dimenstions? I think it will be hard to image presenting a symphony from such a small box, but I am not sure about it.
Third: How do you compare 683 to 705 or 683 to CM1? which is better? And, does the 683 bright or soft?
Last but not the least, What's the producing country of these models? I heard some of which are made in China but don't know more about that.
Thanks in advance. |
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Relevant Product Info
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New member Username: Dizz
Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 11:21 am: |
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Hy everybody,
I'm new member so i wondered if you could help me.
I have c-352 nad amplifier and monitor audio b2 speakers and i'm not satisfied with the sound they produce.I thinking of replacing my m-audio with jbl e or es series.
Please tell me you're opinion.
Thanks. |
Silver Member Username: Sem
New York/Cal...
USA
Post Number: 770
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 12:13 pm: |
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Steven, Just a suggestion - please provide the other components you have as well so that you might get more helpful responses.
Nemanja, two opinions. My first opinion is that my opinion is of little use to you. Your ears will tell you far more than anyone here can. My second opinion is that you should start a separate thread rather than hijack this one. |
New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 10:26 pm: |
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Sem,
The CD is Marantz SA8001 cd player; I've not bought the amplifier, but I opt to Marantz PM7001, just a little afraid about it's power output. |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2594
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 08:35 am: |
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If you want B&W 705s, get a better amplifier than a Marantz PM7001. It doesn't have the clean current to make the B&Ws sing. |
Gold Member Username: Gavdawg
Albany,
New York
Post Number: 1090
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 09:24 am: |
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Steven, I have the SA8001 myself, and have it paired with the KEF iQ3 speakers in wonderful balance.
To my ears, the new 600 series is tubby sounding, with a thickness in the lower midrange and bass, and has a soft treble. I do not find them to suit my ears. Some people definatly do, just not me.
IMHO, the 600 series benefits more when it is paired with CD player that is more forward in the treble, such as one of the Rotel designed units.
Being that B&W owns Rotel, I highly doubt that this is coincidental.
Before I bought the 8001 I also owned a Rotel unit, so I am well aware of the sonics of both units. Marantz players have their supporters as well as detractors. Detractors will state that the highs are not as transparant or bright as on other CD players (such as the Rotel I mentioned).
Personally, I feel it is more transparent than the Rotel due to the nature that the highs are not thrust at you, and are grain free. However, if you mate it with equipment that rolls off the highs you could be in for a surprise...and not the good kind.
I would be wary of the 600 series with your equipment unless you can get an in-home trial. |
New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 02:32 am: |
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Stu Pitt,
Why do you think PM7001 doesn't have clean current? I saw most of review about the amplifier are so positive. Please don't mistake me, I am not judging your opinion, just want to get more information.
And, if you think PM7001 is not good for B&W, how about use it for KEF? Thanks. |
New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 03:13 am: |
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Gavin,
Thanks for your information. It makes much senses to me.
I noticed, the crossover of KEF iQ3 is 2.7khz and B&W 685,705,805s is ranged from 3.7khz to 4khz. It's a so much difference! Does the crossover has something to do with what you observed treble roll-off?
On the other hand, it was said that B&W 705 is so bright and 685 is warm. So, how do you think pair a B&W 705 with my Marantz SA8001?
About KEF iQ3: it seems not in the same price range with B&W 685. If I have a little more dollors to spend ( about $1000 ), what's your suggestion? What is the next higher/better loudspeaker in KEF?
Thanks. |
Gold Member Username: Gavdawg
Albany,
New York
Post Number: 1102
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 08:31 am: |
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The KEF XQ10, which is $1400US.
http://www.kef.com/products/xq07/global/productRange_xq10/default.aspx |
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New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 11:41 am: |
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Thank you Gavin. Because Kef XQ10 is about the same price with B&W 705, so does anyone compared these two speakers? Thanks. |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2595
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 11:50 am: |
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Steven,
The PM7001 is a good integrated for the money. At its price point it compares comparably for possibly favorably (depending on personal preferences) with similarly priced units.
That being said, its just not good enough for B&W 700 series speakers. Neither the speakers nor the 7001 were designed to be used with each other's level of equipment. Physically, the 7001 probably has enough power to run the 705s. But the quality of that power won't get the best out of the 705s.
If you want the 705s, you should look into higher quality (most often read more expensive) amplification. If you're set on the 7001, you should stick with the 600 series like the 685.
I haven't heard the KEFs to make any judgment. |
Gold Member Username: Gavdawg
Albany,
New York
Post Number: 1103
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 06:01 pm: |
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the KEF iQ series is more in line with the pm 7001 |
New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 6
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 02:18 am: |
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Stu Pitt,
Got your point. Thanks. Can you also suggest one or two amplifiers for B&W 705s to me? Thanks. |
Silver Member Username: Sem
New York/Cal...
USA
Post Number: 771
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 08:30 am: |
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Steven, do a search of this forum for B&W 705 in the "Home Audio" section and you'll turn up lots of previous posts discussing what to match with the 705's. A lot of folks have touted the Rotel/705 as an excellent match. An example -
http://forum.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=333706#POST333706 |
Bronze Member Username: Afj
Gaborone
Botswana
Post Number: 36
Registered: Jan-08
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| Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 09:16 am: |
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nemanja
the jbl es series is pretty crap. try the jbl studio L series (880) or the monitor audio silver (6). for speakers at a lower price you could try infinity. havent listened to them myself but have heard that theyre pretty good |
Gold Member Username: Gavdawg
Albany,
New York
Post Number: 1104
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 09:22 am: |
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Pairing Rotel with the 700 series? I wouldn't personally... |
New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 7
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 11:35 am: |
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Gavin,
what you want to say? google searching confirms there are actually many users reporting that Rotel is a best match for B&W. |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2597
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 11:53 am: |
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Rotel is a very good match with B&W IMO. I've heard the Rotel seperates and B&W 700s together numerous times.
For similar money, I personally prefer Paradigm Studios and Rotel though. |
Platinum Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 2816
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 01:40 pm: |
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As I recall, there is no such thing as a bright B&W speaker. Plenty of bright KEF speakers though...
Mostly, B&W's presentation is a bit big in the bass. OK, in some cases such as CM7s, it's VERY tubby in the bass. The new 68x series does offer a lot of value for money on paper. I find it a bit too big in the bass for myself but it makes up for a lot of ills in its fine midrange and treble, especially in the 683 which has that dedicated midrange FST unit.
The best B&W you've mentioned by far is the 705. Very well made and well judged. However, it needs a lot of room around it to sound good. If it is close to a wall (less than 2 ft) it will boom like the proverbial b4st4rd! It's also very responsive to the signal it's fed with. If you try to drive it with anything cheap it'll show you cheap. If the amp doesn't have a lot of power, it'll scream at you as the amp can't drive the crossover properly.
The high crossover point is actually a benefit, not a hindrance. We most keenly identify changes in pitch in the 2500hz region so placing the crossover point there (as many manufacturers do) goes slap bang in the middle of our most sensitive hearing. By raising the crossover point, B&W avoid the issue (a bit) and integration into the treble unit is easier.
Are there any opther brands of speaker you can listen to? It always helps to compare.
Regards,
Frank. |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9997
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 02:59 pm: |
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In the B&W lineup, the 6xx and lower are Rotel territory, by design, and the 7xx and above are kind of intended for Classe.
Certainly the 8xx are what B&W bought Classe for.
But that's just the sales stuff, no reason for a 7xx not to run a 200wpc Rotel.
Never heard them sound bright, 1072 cdp, 1080 amp and all.
The 702 are very good.
But so are a lot of others... |
Platinum Member Username: Gavdawg
Albany,
New York
Post Number: 1105
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 10:43 pm: |
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"For similar money, I personally prefer Paradigm Studios and Rotel though."
that was where I was going... I felt that the 700 series matched better with Classe than Rotel when I last heard them.
As far as the 700 series being bright, I can't comment. I have not heard them recently. |
New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 8
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 02:39 am: |
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Well, thanks all of your suggestion. Now I think I almost opt for B&W 705. On the amp side, I think I should go to listen Rotel ( Classe seems not popular here ).
So please suggest one or tow Rotel modes for audition. ( What sem gave is RSX-1056, but it's a 5.1 channel receiver, I think I need a pure integreated hifi amp )
Thanks. |
Platinum Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6626
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 09:50 am: |
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A Rotel integrated and the 705 is not a good match...A Rotel and the 685 are far better together. A system is only as good as it's weakest link...and in some cases the sum of the parts is worse than the weakest link. Classe with the 705 or Rotel and the 685... |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 10002
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 11:03 am: |
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Stryvn uses the Studio 60's and Rotel pre+amp to very very good effect.
And he is a good cook and host, as well. |
Platinum Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6627
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 11:19 am: |
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And that relates how?!?! |
Platinum Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 2825
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 11:49 am: |
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Nuck,
702s don't exist - never have...
Regards,
Frank. |
Silver Member Username: Sem
New York/Cal...
USA
Post Number: 772
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 01:15 pm: |
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Steven, I wasn't actually recommending Rotel/B&W. Never even heard them together. I simply used the search tool on this site and did a quick search of B&W 705. The Rotel was mentioned, as were others. Of course none of that does you any good if you unless you can go have a listen to different setups. Only you have a pair of golden ears, they can tell you far more than anyone here can. Good luck with whatever you decide. |
Platinum Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2601
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 01:35 pm: |
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A Rotel pre/power should be more than sufficient for the 705s. The 100 watt and up power amps drive the 704 and 703 pretty well. Obviously better quality amplification will give better results.
However, I wouldn't recommend buying the 705 and a Rotel integrated without an audition in a similar sized room as the one it'll go in.
And don't forget about the source. |
New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 9
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 08:24 pm: |
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okay ...
Solution A: Rotel pre+amp;
Solution B: Classe
Can you guys please suggest a specific model for each one? Then we can talk about which one would be better, and the prices.
Thank you! |
Platinum Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6628
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 10:25 pm: |
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Steven, any Classe amp should do the trick....
Sorry if I seem impatient but you are obviously using a computer...go to the Classe and Rotel websites and do some research.... |
New member Username: Narke
Post Number: 10
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 04:17 am: |
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Art,
After the research, i began to believe any Classe should be good, but I simply can *not* afford it :-) B&W 705 is about 1800 USD, but in my searching for Classe, even the cheapest Classe mode seems so much more expensive than a pair of B&W 705.
I only get $1000 - $1200 buget for an amp. If within this price range, there is no an amplifier sufficent to drive B&W 705 good enough£¬selecting the B&W 705 may be a wrong decision to me :-(
Is there really no a $1000 - $1200 amplifier can do a good job for B&W 705? |
Bronze Member Username: Snapcat
Post Number: 40
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 08:19 am: |
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http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1210367264
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1210994115
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1210784814
I would hope one of these would do it.
It's up to you as to which one sounds best. I've heard the newer classe stuff with one of B&W 803's (forgot which one) for a few minutes - very nice. |
Bronze Member Username: Narke
Post Number: 11
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 08:37 am: |
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Thank you snapcat. Prices are attractive. But since I am such a newbie, so I am not going to run any risk to buy a second-hand gear.
Now, ( Because Classe is too expensive to afford ) I just come up with an idea: for B&W 705, how about pair it with:
A) Marantz PM-15S1 ( about $2000, but I can get it about $1300 )
B) Rotel RC-1057/RB-1057 pre+amp ( about $1200 )
Hope I can still get opinions from your folks. Thanks again. |
Platinum Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6633
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 09:03 am: |
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"for B&W 705, how about pair it with:
A) Marantz PM-15S1 ( about $2000, but I can get it about $1300 )
B) Rotel RC-1057/RB-1057 pre+amp ( about $1200 )"
How about NOT, You keep trying to pair the 705's with gear that simply isn't the best match....did you see the gear that snapcat showed you...you acknowledged it by saying thanks...keep looking there, on Audiogon. You will find an amp that really is a good match for the 705's. |
Bronze Member Username: Narke
Post Number: 12
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 09:47 am: |
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Okay, I will put an eye on Audiogon ... just, it's second hand and I am a totally newbie And, for a 50lbs bulk, shipping across Pacific Ocean, I am worring it safty and costing 
Anyway, I accept your advice. |
Platinum Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6636
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 10:15 am: |
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Audiogon may not be the only good used audio market however I don't know of one in your parts. The other option if you're hooked on B&W is to buy the 685's and a nice Rotel integrated and put on some music and forget about it... |
Bronze Member Username: Narke
Post Number: 13
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 10:35 am: |
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Thank you. It was said that 685 is so warm, do you think so? |
Platinum Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6637
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 11:12 am: |
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Not really...some folks have complained about them being bright. If folks are commenting on both ends of the scale it's a good indication that the speaker is pretty neutral. That's my impression as well...given that you use complimentary electronics with them. |
Platinum Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1318
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 11:34 am: |
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http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=2301&sc=hf
http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/index.htm?cat=21
http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/ProductDetails.htm?Id=24
There, now go and listen to some music. |
Bronze Member Username: Narke
Post Number: 14
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 11:46 am: |
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Thank you so much Art! |
Bronze Member Username: Narke
Post Number: 15
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 12:14 pm: |
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Nick,
It's suprising you suggested me go for RA-1062 rather than RX-1052. By reading the specification, it seems RX-1052 is a better product than RA-1062, and it also cost extra $200. On the other hand, RX-1052 is 200 watt and RA-1062 is merely 60 watt. Am I right?
For the CDP, I have already bought the Marantz SA8001 a week before. How do you compare it with what you suggested RCD-1072? Will my non-Rotel CDP be a problem for B&W 685?
Thank you. |
Platinum Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6639
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 12:44 pm: |
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The 1062 is an integrated amp and sounds better than the 1052 which is a receiver...although the 1052 doesn't sound bad...I used to own it.
The Marantz CD player is warmer and more forgiving than the Rotel which has a more forward and detailed presentation. I don't think it would be a problem running the 1062/8001/685 system...should sound very nice. |
Platinum Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1319
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 12:47 pm: |
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Steven- The RX-1052 is 100 watts per channel as to the RA-1062 at 60 watts per channel. I feel if your looking for a two channel system that an integrated amp is the way to go. Not to say a receiver is a totally bad choice. But giving the fact that you are taking the Radio portion out of the equation should provide you with better floor noise, and slightly cleaner sound. If you were to go with either the RA-1062 or RX-1052, I would still recommend no higher than the 685's. And the 685's should do just fine with 60 watts per channel.
I can't comment on how the Marantz cd player will mix with Rotel/B&W. I didn't realize you had already purchased it. I should have read more closely. Only your ears can tell you if you like it. If you don't, sell it and buy the 1072 by Rotel for that all mighty synergy. |
Platinum Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1320
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 12:48 pm: |
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Sorry Art, I crossed posts with you bud.
Steven- Art knows Rotel as well as anybody, I would listen to what he has to say. |
Bronze Member Username: Narke
Post Number: 16
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 01:15 pm: |
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Art & Nick,
Thanks for you told me Integrated Amplifier is not equal to Receiver! I am so happy I've learned this Now, I think, a receiver = an integrated amp + FM tuner or somthing else not so important to HiFi. Am I right this time?
Just a little doubt: If RA-1062 is better than RX-1052 in sound, why it is $200 cheaper than RX-1052? The FM tuner costs the extra $200? |
Platinum Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1321
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 02:05 pm: |
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YES, basically your are paying for the man hours and expense of the FM Tuner and them having to put it into that unit. Plus perhaps the power supply was bigger and more expensive. Integrated amplifiers will usually run slightly cheaper, but perform better. Thats why they are always a solid choice over a two channel receiver. Cheers. |
Platinum Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1322
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 02:06 pm: |
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I would take the 200 dollars you save on the RA-1062 and put it into some really nice Interconnects. |
Bronze Member Username: Snapcat
Post Number: 41
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 04:17 pm: |
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Steven,
Didn't know that you were across the Pacific. Audiogon may not work well for you... most people only want to ship within North America, but if you see something that has not sold for quite some time that might create more flexibility.
When I auditioned the 683's I listened thru the Rotel 1052 reciever and a Marantz CDP (forgot which model, but relatively recent). I also listened to the 685's. The 683's had more forward presence and detail than the 685's to my ears and more bass (as expected), but not more boomy bass like the 603s3's have (which seems to be extremely dependent on proximity to the wall behind them). I think the choice between the 683 and 685 depends on the size of your room and your preference for the amount of bass desired. I have not heard the 705 or CM1. I have heard the CM7's with all Rotel gear several times (1072 cdp/1068 processor/1095 amp) - very detailed with soundstage wider than the speaker placement... not much bass for my ears. The 683/Rotel 1052/Marantz cdp combo did not achieve the same level of soundstage width as the all Rotel/CM7 setup (however, it was a different room). |
Platinum Member Username: Gavdawg
Albany,
New York
Post Number: 1106
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Sunday, April 06, 2008 - 04:35 pm: |
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I admit that I despise the sound of the 600 series B&W speakers, just like Frank can't stand mine.
It is all personal preference in the end :-) |
Platinum Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6644
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Sunday, April 06, 2008 - 05:42 pm: |
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Ah Gav you haven't heard mine with the B&W amp...very sweeeeet! |
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