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Thread: SDAT Cat Leb 404 Speakers |
    
New member Username: Gilmeister62
Post Number: 1
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 11:53 pm: |
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The Cat Leb 404s are floor standing speakers. However, because of room limitations I have them on 34" high shelves and with tiptoes, with the side-woofers firing inward and into open space--this is a must. The 404s are light in weight, but don't let that deceive you. Having said that, this is my eval of these amazing speakers:
Bought these speakers 03-2007 based on reviews and cost. Not expecting much...ended up comparing them to $1500+ speakers!
I used to sell hi-end stereo systems, with speakers such as Vandersteen, Thiel, PSB, Rega, B&W, Apogee, Celestion, Definitive Technology, Meitner ribbons,DCM. These speakers have the clarity, air and imaging of Thiel CS1.2s (not an understatement), the bass punch of B&W 802s and a value unmatched. They are revealing of any weakness in your system (electronics, cables, lack of damping materials), although with mid-fi electronics they will still mightily impress with a well-adjusted equalizer/loudness contour. Very detailed, quick transients, a smartly designed tweeter and extremely fast, tight bass (I find little or no bass bloat), this magnificent speaker reproduces instrumentals and vocals with the panache of a live performance. You'll get goosebumps from hearing things for the first time and be awestruck at the clarity of image placement. Plus, you'll look at these wonders and say, "I only paid how much for these speakers???" Keep in mind that I've been comparing the 404s to others at least 5 to 10 times their retail value.
My associated equipment? Harmon Kardon separates (power amp/80 wpc x 5, preamp/tuner), Bryston power/100 wpc and Meitner pre, Monster M1000/IR2 and Meitner Cables, Denon and Rotel digital, Oracle analog with Koetsu Rosewood cartridge and Alphason arm, Navcom damping pucks, Vibrapods, Tiptoes. Speakers? Focus HDM Monitors, Sequerra Metronome Mk IIs with bass modules, DCM TF-1000s, Sound Dynamics RTS-3s.
This is the end of the audio paragon. You no longer have to pay an arm and a leg to get audio nirvana. |
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Relevant Product Info
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Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 753
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 09:27 am: |
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Is this an ad? |
Gold Member Username: Stefanom
Vienna,
VA
United States
Post Number: 1144
Registered: Apr-06
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| Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 10:20 am: |
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Ohh yeah... Though I do believe Tawaun had a favorable experience with SDAT once upon a time... |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 754
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 10:22 am: |
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I see those up for sale on Overstock.com all the time, dirt cheap. |
Gold Member Username: Gavdawg
Albany,
New York
Post Number: 1085
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 06:21 pm: |
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TW did have SDAT speakers, but not sure if it was those exact speakers. He said they were outstanding for the price.... not at all the white van garbage |
New member Username: Gilmeister62
Post Number: 2
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 11:55 pm: |
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David Mitchell, this is not an ad. They do not weigh 50-75 pounds each. They are 19 lbs. each. How they produce the bass they do or the clarity and imaging they do, I do not know. Their only perceived weakness that I hear is their side-firing woofer, where the grille rattles if there is an inordinate amount of low bass information. To compensate, all you need to do is insert a little rubberized damping between the grille and side cabinet and, voila, its gone. Cost constraints obviously. But remember that I, like many others, bought the 404s on a whim and kapow, they are better than my Sound Dynamics RTS-3s, which are more romantic like a good Koetsu, they rival my Sequerra Metronome Mk IIs with woofer modules (think of Wilson speakers without the need for gazillion $$ electronics) and play almost as loud. They are unbelievably quick, octave to octave balanced, ultra revealing of the recording acoustic as to multi tracking or live spaces or both (amazingly so), have impressive depth (a limitation of my system and set up), but most of all the 404s will be an outstanding upgrade for your system. Unless you have Thiel CS 3.6s, B&W 802 Mk IIIs, or Apogee Duetta Signature Mk IIs with appropriate electronics. Remember, though, fire the side woofers inward and into free space.
My connected system? Harman Kardon PA 5800 5 channel amplifier on Navcom pucks (Audioquest Sorbothane pucks or Vibrapods work well too), with matching PT-2500 preamp tuner with Cardas Quadlink interconnects (surpisingly clean and quiet) on Tiptoes; Prisma 14 Gauge multi strand speaker cable or Meitner 16 strand solid core
speaker cable with gold tiffany bananas; Rotel RCD-965 CD Player with Navcom pucks, Monster M1000 interconnects (a bargain by today's prices), Rotel RT-970 tuner with Monster Interlink Refernce 2 Mk II interconnects; Harman Kardon DVD-31 dvd player with Meitner interconnects; DISH Satellite receiver on tiptoes with Meitner interconnects. A good system, but even on my receiver/bedroom system, the 404s rock. If you engage a loudness contour on a bass shy system, these speakers will still amaze, perhaps more to your liking, and they will not strain. No, I do not play AC/DC at 115 db, but movie soundtracks and close miked drums (try the classic Phil Collins' In The Air Tonight) will still rock your room and drop your jaw.
If this were an ad or a review, the 404s would be sold out. If The Absolute Sound reviewed them, they would be a Budget Component of the DECADE candidate. Suffice it to say that we can all afford them. Just get over the price/weight to performance ratio, you may not find a better one. And perhaps, this will save you a year's worth of gas prices. Think of that! |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 759
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 10:31 am: |
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okdokee. |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1870
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 06:30 pm: |
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Hmm - I might have a place for Gilbert in marketing. |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1872
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 01:27 am: |
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Thanks for the pm Gilbert, but I wasn't serious - and you'll see a lot of that on this forum. We have to get our fun somehow. |
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New member Username: Gilmeister62
Post Number: 3
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 01:54 am: |
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Never a problem, My_rantz. It's a far and few between day when we get to wax lyrical over audio finds and the musical experience. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 767
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 07:42 pm: |
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I do that a lot. |
New member Username: Gilmeister62
Post Number: 4
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 08:41 pm: |
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Anyone with some best buy audio bargains?
If you can still find them, try Sims' Navcom damping pucks. For amplifiers, put one underneath the transformer. This will reduce the amplifier's vibration and reduce the noise floor of your system. You can 'see' more into your music as system transparency noticeably improves. Normally requires 4 per component. For an experiment, use a configuration of 3 pucks doubled up. That's right, 6 in all, with a set under the transformer again. You'll be astonished. No Navcoms? Try Audioquest Sorbothane, impressive as well. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 779
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 08:54 pm: |
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Randy? is that you? |
New member Username: Gilmeister62
Post Number: 5
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 09:05 pm: |
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Sorry, no. I used to work at Brack Electronics in Toronto, got acquainted with these a while ago. Ed Newman, a quirky 65-year-old salesman, showed me the six-puck set up. Many quirky ideas, they all worked. Ed knew the designers at Bryston, distributors, etc. He had a unique system and an unconventional set up. BIG SOUND, see through transparency. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9963
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 10:58 pm: |
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Sssssso, I have to pull my amp apart and place it beneath the torroid?
What if I have a potted transformer? |
New member Username: Gilmeister62
California
Post Number: 6
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 11:42 pm: |
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No, don't take your amp apart. Try to put it directly underneath the transformer on the outside/underside of the amp. Proxomity placement for best damping. If you're amp has provisions to damp the transformer already (locate where the vibrations are being grounded, if this is so, and try placing a puck there), kudos, but Navcom has the ability to damp vibrations better than even Sorbothane. Also it is used in the bow industry, to mention a few, in audio it is just as effective. Unless of course, you go for ultra exotic tiptoes and other multi hundred dollar damping devices--at this point, you might be talking about diminishing returns because Navcom is so effective.
Click on the link below, or paste it to your address bar, a decent article on the world of audio damping. Not specifically on Navcom, however it does mention Navcom, Vibrapods (not as good but cheap and effective, these do improve bass extension, image placement), Sorbothane and a multitude of more exotic damping solutions...
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/vibration.html |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9970
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 05:51 am: |
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I didn't see tennis balls, plumbing supplies or diver's weights in that article.
Rookies! |
Gold Member Username: Mike3
Wylie,
Tx
USA
Post Number: 1212
Registered: May-06
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| Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 11:16 am: |
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They don't cost enough, neither do the pieces from a Jenga game... |
New member Username: Gilmeister62
California
Post Number: 7
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 03:38 am: |
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Here is the original link to the SDAT 404s in e-coustics, including several valuable posts by designer Kenny Li. Interesting pro and con threads, many, many blogs. I can only tell you that the 'con' threads are from those who have not experienced the minimal coloration of these speakers and its amazing qualities...
}
http://forum.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/discus.pl?pg=prev&topic=1&page=171954
If the link does not work, the thread started 01-20-05! |
New member Username: Axiom
Post Number: 1
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 03:34 pm: |
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I know this is my first post, but these reviews bother me.
Looking at just the pure specs, I suspect these aren't much better than the cheap price they are asking for. You're talking about a near 3-feet tall tower, 8" across, by 9.5" deep. Thats not a small speaker. Then theres the fact that its only 20lbs? That should have warning bells out the wazoo there. I suspect its particle board with little or bracing and I bet no damping with drivers worth less than a buck.
What order are the high and low crossovers? Are they even crossed over at all?
Why is every speaker on that web page capable down to exactly 20hz? I mean EXACTLY 20hz? I can't think of any towers or bookshelves without a built in sub that can even go below 25hz.
Any frequency response charts? Anything else would be nice too but at least that.
So color me skeptical on these things. VERY skeptical. Are they worth $80? Yeah... I doubt they'd do well against the established brands. And before you tell me I haven't heard them before, you tell me I can buy a car as good as a Ferrari for $1000 and by the way, it has a 3-cylinder engine, what would you think? |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 883
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 03:47 pm: |
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http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/SDAT-HD380-400-watt-Floor-Standing-Speaker- Pair/1919222/product.html
They look like junk. 20 lbs? Gimme a break. |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 10122
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 07:50 pm: |
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If the miniature schnauser can pull it to the car...better sell the car, too! |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 10123
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 07:51 pm: |
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If the miniature schnauser can pull it to the car...better sell the car, too!
Hey, you brought the car and the dog... |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 887
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 07:54 pm: |
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Yeah, I totally don't get that. |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 10125
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 08:06 pm: |
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If your speakers are so light so that your 20lb dog can drag them there, then maybe you own a small car where they just wont fit in.
Small dog...small car.
David, I saw a malamut stuffed into a prius... not good. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 888
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 08:18 pm: |
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My dog once dragged a newspaper box (complete with newspapers, change and a concrete cinder block - apparently to make the box immovable). It moved anyway. |
Platinum Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 10127
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 08:27 pm: |
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Gotta love a good doggegedly dog.
Itès like...dude..Ièm a dog. |
Gold Member Username: Mike3
Wylie,
Tx
USA
Post Number: 1267
Registered: May-06
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 10:41 pm: |
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You won't believe the places these two take me if they see a rabbit before I do...
did I mention the Malamute Nuck? |
Bronze Member Username: Gilmeister62
California
Post Number: 12
Registered: Mar-08
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| Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 11:28 pm: |
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Guys, I hate to admit it, but you are absolutely right. These speakers (they're 19 lbs each, don't give 'em that much credit!) should be junk. Garbage, basically. Where's the heavy bracing for the cabinets? What about bextrene woofers, the Monitor Audio-like metal dome tweeters, hey what about mirror imaged pairs and phase coherent crossovers?
I too, was skeptical, thinking that I had just bought some garage brand speaker from the back of a truck. Wasted money. Granted, I bought them for less than the price of two movie tickets (not including shipping) and was prepared to throw them away in light of the Sequerras and Sound Dynamics RTS-3s that I had been using. But then I set them up, side woofers firing inward, using my main system, exotic cables, and damping devices. And I listened to them and thought I had gone tone deaf mad, because the CAT LEBs sounded sweet, fast, spacious, smooth...and deep.
Kept them hooked up for a week and then switched back to the Sequerras. Ahhh, that Quad like transparency, that huge soundfield, that lightning quick transient response. Then I hooked up the RTS-3s, which melt you into your seat because they ALMOST fool you into believing that you are listening to a good Koetsu Black or Rosewood. Liquid midrange, powerful dynamics, up front soundstage.
And yet, the CAT LEBs sound like the speakers of yore that I remember, the beautiful and accurate Thiel CS 2.2s, the dynamic and bass lovely B&W 802 Mk IIs, with imaging rivaling the Sequerras and staging slightly recessed compared to the RTS-3s. Was I losing it? Or have we been fooled by the absolute standards of 'advertised' speaker technology that, in order to hear sonic nirvana, you have to pay a fairly hefty price for r&d, cabinet bracing and exotic crossovers? Shareholder profits, in other words. Or were the 404s designed to penetrate a very price sensitive market by being a sonic kick in the pants?
Hey, read the comments on Overstock.com, or even this site, the 404s are hooked up to Sony receivers, compared to Bose and Cerwin Vegas, using 22 gauge speaker cable. And deservedly so, because that's their market. And sure, if you're into Stereo Review, you'll believe that specs rule. BUT, listen to them and understand that the person or group who designed them circumvented using exotic technology and million dollar advertising, choosing instead to use speaker acumen and good, sensible speaker design not meant for the high end (read as I'll take your money) but the common market.
Cheap systems will sound better with the 404s. People will start to appreciate good sound while never expecting to. But I dare you, instead of going out on a Friday night, spend it on a pair of 404s.
And prepare to believe in the magic of music. |
New member Username: Axiom
Post Number: 2
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 10:14 am: |
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I was going to launch into a post about cabinet resonance but, oh I get you guys up above now.
I like my cat, he's cute.. here kitty kitty |
New member Username: Axiom
Post Number: 3
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 11:59 am: |
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By the way, this is a nice forum. A bit slower moving than AVS but more informed audio people here! |
Gold Member Username: Mike3
Wylie,
Tx
USA
Post Number: 1269
Registered: May-06
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 12:32 pm: |
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Wow, anybody else see that?
A thread about SDAT Cat Leb 404 Speakers and there on the right side of the forum in the margin is an ad for those speakers.
I guess Admin got something working right!
 |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 889
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 12:33 pm: |
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Yeah, I saw that. I figured it was just a crazy coincidence. |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2695
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 02:56 pm: |
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I can think of an excellent tower speaker that weighs about 20 pounds or so -
The Totem Arro
Weight isn't everything. Proper design is. I'm not trying to imply the SDATs should be good because Arros are good. Just merely pointing out that a speaker's weight (or lack thereof)isn't the be all, end all of quality. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 890
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 03:04 pm: |
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That's a good point Stu.
Doubt you'll see the Arros on Overstock.com anytime soon, though. |
New member Username: Axiom
Post Number: 4
Registered: Apr-08
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 04:13 pm: |
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I'd love to hear this speaker but no Totem dealers nearby. Maybe the SDATs use the same material and construction for $100! |
Gold Member Username: Stefanom
Vienna,
VA
United States
Post Number: 1156
Registered: Apr-06
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| Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 05:19 pm: |
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I would note that while the Arro is "tall" its other dimensions are relatively diminutive, accounting for some of that weight loss. |
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