| Author |
Thread: From NAD C370 to Nait 5i? |
    
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 63
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 01:05 am: |
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Hi all!!
Since I am so happy now with the NAIM CD5i-2, my freaking mind tortures me about an amp-upgrade...
Would it make sense in terms of sound-improvement to give the NAD C370 in payment and get a Nait 5i?
Is the Nait really THAT much better?
Is the NAD C370 now somehow "limiting" the Naim CD5i-2?
Or would it even be better to wait some time and invest later in a better speaker set, thus keeping the in-my-eyes wonderful NAD C370?
Sorry for bombarding the experts...but I am hooked now... |
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Relevant Product Info
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Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 64
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 01:09 am: |
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Oooooops, I forgot...
How would I then connect my subwoofer to the Nait?
http://www.canton.de/de-produktdetail-plusas-as85sc.htm |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 65
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 01:37 am: |
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Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6118
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 07:17 am: |
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"Is the NAD C370 now somehow "limiting" the Naim CD5i-2?"
Yes. Obviously the Nait would improve your system immensely. It's up to whether it's worth it.
Sub, speaker level if you must...there's always a way. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1090
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 09:36 am: |
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Thorsten, the Naim unit would be a very large jump up in quality. Build and sound quality that is. Bring one home and have a listen. |
Bronze Member Username: James_lehmann
Post Number: 23
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 11:45 am: |
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"Would it make sense in terms of sound-improvement to give the NAD C370 in payment and get a Nait 5i? Is the Nait really THAT much better?"
I'm doing exactly that upgrade tomorrow Thorsten - watch this space! :-) |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 66
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 03:31 pm: |
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I have the Nait 5i-2 here...
Man I am confused like hell...
Thanks to all for your kind words...but really it is very difficult, since the KEF -speakers are a bit too bright with the Nait...
Detail is much clearer with the Nait...much more alive...
But I have to check out some more....
The NAD is not that much detailed, but REALLY not a lot worse...
My head hurts.... |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 67
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 03:32 pm: |
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Oh, and yes, I use no sub with the Nait.
Not at all necessary....
Phew.... |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1092
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 05:56 pm: |
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Keep listening Thorsten. Although the Naim is a better product, doesn't mean your ears are going to like it over the NAD. Everyone is different. Also doesn't mean its going to be a good match with your speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6122
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 09:20 pm: |
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Frank leave those KEF's alone...I can feel it comin'.
As always Thorsten let your ears be the judge. You are the one who will have to listen to the system long term. As I've stated elsewhere, all we are doing is stating is our preferences but it's yours that matters. |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 68
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
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SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET JESUS!!!!
Sitting on the couch, mouth wide open, drooling like a little kiddo...
UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!
Never mind the KEFs, here are the KEFs!!!
Did a few changes....
1) Put the NAD C370, T+A Speaker Six cables and my old DENON CDP in payment and got me...
2) Naim Nait 5i, 2x4 meters NACA5 cable, with Sub-cable already worked perfectly in from the dealer....as u can see on the pics...
What a dramatic change a cable can bring about....freaking unbelievable...
NOTHING left from treble-peaks...and honestly, I love BASS, what can I do...so I use the sub, but WAY tuned down...just to give additional structure.
WONDERFUL!!!!
And yes, DIN cable rocks!!!!
Sorry, but I am overwhelmed....
The NACA5 is every cent woth it.
Balanced, rich and VERY powerful...just a bit tough to handle as in ROOM DECORATION (my girlfriend likes it un-cable-crazy....lol).
What a gigantic leap from the NAD....
I thought "Oh God, now the KEFs suck"...but au contraire...the speaker six cable had too much silver in it..
For 1000€, the KEFs do a very nice job...
To all of you friendly helpers:
Be embraced...
Will now bath in "Since I´ve been loving you" (How the west was won)....
CHEERS
Thorsten
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Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6134
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 11:09 am: |
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Awesome! |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9739
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 12:20 pm: |
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Good stuff, TL!
Now pull the spekears out from the wall, the right one is too boxed in, and set a couple of bass traps in the wood corners.
Ooohh mama! |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 69
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 04:49 pm: |
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Thanks, guys....
Nuck,
"out from the wall" meaning more towards me on the couch "into the room"?
I specifically put the right one there...I loke the bass...
Bass traps in wood corners???
Please make me understand via example...what kind of bass traps? |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6140
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 05:00 pm: |
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If it sounds good, pay no mind to our rambings.... |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 70
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 08:30 am: |
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Phew...what a nice sound!!!!
Due to wall-placement, I inserted the foam-plugins from KEF into the bass-holes...
Another incredible improvement.
The bass is now tighter and the sound even more precise.
I am VERY happy....
Thank u |
Bronze Member Username: James_lehmann
Post Number: 32
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 11:47 am: |
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Thorsten - how do you place a photo in a post? |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 2710
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 11:56 am: |
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Thorsten,
Some observations:
1. I know that you have put the bungs in the speakers to control the bass but the right hand speaker is in the corner and the left hand speaker is not. By being right in the corner, the right hand speakergets a 6db lift in the bass over the left hand speaker which is just against the wall. Therefore, I would normally suggest you swap the sub with the right hand speaker to level up the bass response.
2. The speakers are very toed-in. I suggest you start with them almost not toed in at all. You will immediately notice that the image is not as sharp, but at the same time you should notice that the bass becomes more tuneful and you can remove the foam bungs which allows the speakers to breathe, removing some congestion in the midrange. Toe them in a little if you wish just until the image snaps into focus but no more. At that point, the system should give you good spread (particularly with classical) as well as a focussed image in the middle from bands and vocalists.
3. Why place the CD player on the bottom rung? It's the unit which you need to touch. The amplifier is almost never touched.
4. I see that you have locked the DIN plug in place on the amplifier (and I presume the CD player). This may seem the sensible thing to do and used to be the norm. However, Naim have done a lot of work on decoupling technologies and found that leaving the plug unlocked and preferably with the lock ring slid back off the socket, there's a very small (minute) improvement in performance. Naim took this theory to its logical conclusion in the Airplug which they use on their HiLine interconnect. The Airplug allows the pins to move and 'seat' themselves in the most natural place int he socket. This allows them to make the best connection without strain. At the same time, the airplug decouples the pins from the main interconnect cable by having a very flexible link cable between the two. Although this seems like it should introduce an extra connection and therefore be a bad thing, the evidence of the HiLine is very much to the contrary, so it's worth just trying the standard interconnect without locking the plugs. After all, the HiFi is not in a place where you can easily knock out the cable.
5. I see the power cable of the subwoofer. Where are the Naims plugged in? Try to plug both Naims into the same double wall socket or a single multi-way block (without any spike filtration, conditioning or regeneration).
6. Your units are switched off! They should only be switched off when you go on holiday or there's an electrical storm (when you should also disconnect your TV antenna and/or any other antenna cables such as Sky). Other than that, they will only sound at their best after 2 hours of warming up.
Glad to see you are enjoying your induction into Naim lore. It's a slippery slope...
Regards,
Frank. |
Bronze Member Username: James_lehmann
Post Number: 35
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 12:16 pm: |
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>> Glad to see you are enjoying your induction into Naim lore. It's a slippery slope...
Please don't say that Frank!
I finally arrive at Destination Naim (after 20+ years of roaming the sonic hinterland) and now you're saying my journey has just begun? WTF! ;-) |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 71
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 03:44 am: |
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Dear Frank,
what a wonderful reply.
Thank you so much for taking the time…I REALLY appreciate it.
1. I know that you have put the bungs in the speakers to control the bass but the right hand speaker is in the corner and the left hand speaker is not. By being right in the corner, the right hand speakergets a 6db lift in the bass over the left hand speaker which is just against the wall. Therefore, I would normally suggest you swap the sub with the right hand speaker to level up the bass response.
Will try this soon. But I think the sound is much more precise and tight and clear WITH the foam-bungs in…. Lets try the sub-LS-switch again….
2. The speakers are very toed-in. I suggest you start with them almost not toed in at all. You will immediately notice that the image is not as sharp, but at the same time you should notice that the bass becomes more tuneful and you can remove the foam bungs which allows the speakers to breathe, removing some congestion in the midrange. Toe them in a little if you wish just until the image snaps into focus but no more. At that point, the system should give you good spread (particularly with classical) as well as a focussed image in the middle from bands and vocalists.
Did a researched on “to be toed in”….I understand now.
They should “look straight ahead” if they would have eyes, right?
Will try this too.
3. Why place the CD player on the bottom rung? It's the unit which you need to touch. The amplifier is almost never touched.
I ordered a nice HIFI-rack.
Should come today or tomorrow.
Will place the CD on top of the rack.
Cool.
4. I see that you have locked the DIN plug in place on the amplifier (and I presume the CD player). This may seem the sensible thing to do and used to be the norm. However, Naim have done a lot of work on decoupling technologies and found that leaving the plug unlocked and preferably with the lock ring slid back off the socket, there's a very small (minute) improvement in performance. Naim took this theory to its logical conclusion in the Airplug which they use on their HiLine interconnect. The Airplug allows the pins to move and 'seat' themselves in the most natural place int he socket. This allows them to make the best connection without strain. At the same time, the airplug decouples the pins from the main interconnect cable by having a very flexible link cable between the two. Although this seems like it should introduce an extra connection and therefore be a bad thing, the evidence of the HiLine is very much to the contrary, so it's worth just trying the standard interconnect without locking the plugs. After all, the HiFi is not in a place where you can easily knock out the cable.
Will try this too. Good info!!!!!!
5. I see the power cable of the subwoofer. Where are the Naims plugged in? Try to plug both Naims into the same double wall socket or a single multi-way block (without any spike filtration, conditioning or regeneration).
I bought the NAIM- multiway block and did connect as the dealer adviced. Source first.
6. Your units are switched off! They should only be switched off when you go on holiday or there's an electrical storm (when you should also disconnect your TV antenna and/or any other antenna cables such as Sky). Other than that, they will only sound at their best after 2 hours of warming up.
Nope, they are not switched off.
I just shut off the display. The power-switch on the back is on.
Electricity is constantly there, just not the FULL display….
Again, heartfelt:
“Thank you!!!” |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 72
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 05:35 am: |
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Did all things Frank suggested....nice.
Just experimenting with the "toe-in"-stuff.....
Also, I thought it would be cool to do this:
My dealer has the KEF iQ9 (I just love the KEF-sound). Maybe he takes my iQ7 in payment (they are from him) and I replace the iq7 with the iQ9 and additionally remove the sub....
The sub even NOW is not that necessary....
 |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 73
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 01:47 pm: |
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Hi!
Just went and gave the KEF IQ 7 in FULL payment (AWESOME) and received the KEF IQ9.
NOW: No more sub needed!!!!!!
Very very nice sound.
More depth, clarity, punch...cool...
And the new rack is pretty cool too... |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2463
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 02:52 pm: |
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I think we've created a monster. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6194
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 03:46 pm: |
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Nice!!!!! |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 74
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 07:06 am: |
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Stu,
what do you mean?
I learned a lot here....lol |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2466
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 11:40 am: |
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You came asking about changing one piece. Since then you've changed the entire system. Our insanity is rubbing off on you. |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 75
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 12:28 pm: |
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I know, hehehehe...
But be assured, I was nuts already before....
I just re-remembered how much I LOVE MUSIC...
And now I had the money....and the right association...lol
Again, big hugs with "THANKS" on´em...
Love,
Thor |
Silver Member Username: Jaw
Post Number: 180
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 07:02 pm: |
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Are you the editor for Better Homes & Gardens; what's the outside look like?
Very nice. |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 76
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 06:36 am: |
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Will post some pics of the house... |
Silver Member Username: Jaw
Post Number: 181
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 09:50 am: |
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Cool, do it. |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 2719
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:00 pm: |
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Thorsten,
Can you say what you thought of the changes, particularly the toe-in? It would be nice to discuss these cheap tweaks.
Regards,
Frank. |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 84
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 03:58 am: |
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I DID IT AGAIN....
Call me nuts, so be it...
I went to my Naim-dealer, gave the KEF iq9 into payment (300€ added) and.......brought home the ARIVA!!!!
YEAH!!!!
Now, I will sit back and ENJOY.
Why I did it?
The dealer had the ARIVA down at 1400€...and they are easy to place.
I can now nicely put them against a solid back-wall and enjoy an awesome controlled bass.
Something with the KEFs didnt seem right...too strange middle/high...
The ARIVA kicked out my subwoofer in 5 seconds.
Now to be sold on ebay...
More testing and burn-in to follow..
Good thing too, the ARIVA´s are burnt-in by the dealer, full 5 years warranty.
Will post pictures this afternoon.
Now I am a fully Naim-nut.
Everything Naim. Everything pure music. |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 87
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:36 am: |
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As promised, some nice pictures.
I do not want to seem proud or something, just happy.
 
 |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 88
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:37 am: |
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Two more....
 |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 653
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:55 am: |
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Wow! Awesome house, awesome gear.
Did you win the lottery and not tell us? |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 89
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:31 am: |
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Naw, the house we own since 2003.
The gear comes from savings and one monthly payment to my dealer.
And I got also at least some money for my ex-gear.
400€ for the NAD CDP, 350€ for the NAD amp, 100€ for my old DENON CDP, then 1050€ for the KEF IQ9,
200€ for the old speaker-cable...and remember the ARIVA´s were down to 1400€.
And we both are teachers, no kiddos in plan, so some bucks come around too.
But sure, some investment has been made.
This will last a pretty long time...I hope... |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2482
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:32 am: |
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Very nice system and set up Thorsten. For the amount of money you spent, there is nothing better out there IMO.
I'm eagerly awaiting the day I can afford a complete Naim system.
Next upgrade Thorsten - CD5x, then a power supply for it... |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1179
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:36 am: |
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"'m eagerly awaiting the day I can afford a complete Naim system"
Stu- Whats wrong with your Bryston?lol. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1180
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:36 am: |
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Very very nice by the way Thorsten. Excellent setup and beautiful home. Cheers. |
Bronze Member Username: James_lehmann
Post Number: 38
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:04 pm: |
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You needs some bass-traps in those corners Thorsten!
http://www.realtraps.com/p_mondotrap.htm |
Silver Member Username: Stryvn
Wisconsin
Post Number: 676
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:09 pm: |
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Real nice, Thor. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9784
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 01:29 pm: |
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Bravo, Thor! |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 90
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 02:25 pm: |
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To ALL!
Thank you.
Without your help, nothing could be done!!!!
James,
naw. No bass-traps needed.
Me loves bass. |
Bronze Member Username: James_lehmann
Post Number: 39
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 03:23 pm: |
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I love bass too but there's fantastic bass and too much bass! ;-)
My room was appalling before I treated it - bass nulls and nodes everywhere - so I'd certainly recommend some traps as probably making a much bigger difference than almost any other tweaks you add into your system. |
Silver Member Username: Jaw
Post Number: 183
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 05:11 pm: |
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Fandamntastic.
Plenty of room. I vote spring break at T's; we need room for about 15 plus wives, girlfrends or mistresses. |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 91
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 02:43 am: |
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Where should I place some traps??? |
Bronze Member Username: James_lehmann
Post Number: 40
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 03:02 am: |
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In the corners and behind the couch for starters.
I'll see if I have time to take some pics of my room as an example... |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9797
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 08:35 am: |
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JL, put them over in system pics for us to see? |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 92
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 10:11 am: |
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The most reasonable priced stuff I found would beb those:
Wave Panels CR
I guess those two panels in those 2 corners, right? |
Bronze Member Username: Luxendel
Gondelsheim,
Baden-Württe...
Germany
Post Number: 93
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 10:13 am: |
| |
