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Thread: CD Format is dead? |
    
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 551
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 05:59 pm: |
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Believe it or not, I don't even have a CD player - I store all of my music on a server (in as good of quality/format as I can manage) and stream it through a DAC to my system.
I've actually from time to time considered buying a GOOD CD player, but I'm wondering there's a new music medium on the horizon. I know AudioDVD and SACD were kinda consumer flops.
I guess what I'm trying to say is it would kinda suck to drop 1k on a good CDP, then see a new format become the standard.
I was reading this article which sorta got me to thinking:
http://www.medialoper.com/hot-topics/music/music-executive-declares-cd-is-dead-a nnounces-plans-to-save-the-cd/ |
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Relevant Product Info
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Silver Member Username: Nmytree
Post Number: 164
Registered: Aug-04
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| Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:21 pm: |
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That article is from October of 2006.
And EMI is going through some difficulties:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jan/12/robbiewilliams.emi?gusrc=rss&feed=me dia
These idiots at the record labels never get it.
They started this race to the bottom (of poor sound quality and crappy products), they keep shooting themselves in the foot....over....and over and over again.
Another to to mention is that there has been a very impressive surge by youth/teenagers/early 20's generations towards buying vinyl records and turntables. Especially over the last 2-3 years.
If the record labels had any brains, they would create an environment where analogue and digital both exist. And do them both in highest quality sound each respective format as to offer.
Putting out a high quality sounding product from both formats, would establish a high standard.
Even people not in this hobby like we are, would be accustomed to high quality sound; not a race to the bottome of the bad sound barrel, like it is with the severely compressed mp3 format.
But they're not that smart. They're just greedy. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 5974
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:25 pm: |
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Back when folks on this forum were debating which fromat would win the war DVD-A or SACD I was the first on this forum to say neither will win and in the end neither will HD-DVD or BluRay. The future is and has been for years the media server...however I will always own at least one if not 2 high quality CD players and turntables...I love my collection and I love just holding the cases and covers...these formats will be here for our lifetimes + they just won't be the standard. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1035
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:46 pm: |
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I agree with Art and NMyTree. I am turning 26 in a few weeks, and am about to buy my first turntable. Rega P3-24. And I will always have a decent CD player. The DVD-A and SACD war is a lost cause, and I had thought the HD-DVD/Blu Ray one would had been too, until of late. Looks like Blu Ray is here to stay. Thanks god, because I was greedy and bought one. Either way...The record labels need to pull their sh!t together and start producing more quality sounding cd's, and start producing more LP's. |
Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy
Brooklyn,
NY
United States
Post Number: 1742
Registered: Oct-04
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| Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:57 pm: |
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I just upgraded my CD Player & have bought about 1/2 a dozen CDs in the 2-weeks.
...but I also owned a Commodore Amiga & a Sega Dreamcast. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 5976
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:58 pm: |
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We thought SACD was beating DVD-A it was but to no avail and in the end it will be the same with BluRay. All of these formats will be around but they will be for enthusiasts only as everyone else will use a media server and in all honesty when using lossless formats and using good DAC's the media server will be the best sounding of the formats....I will definately have one (just as soon as Rega makes one...lol!)...get ready the future is here! |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9611
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 07:16 am: |
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Yep. A media server is coming to a system near you, and that is fine.
If it is full of lossless files, no issue there.
So long as it has a phono input, LOL. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1037
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 07:44 am: |
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Yeah, when I get into a bigger place and have another Rack to fit stuff on, I will probably build myself a big fat media server. I get the parts at work for so cheap. I can build a computer for 200 dollars taxes in that a store like Best Buy would charge a Grand for. I will build the server in a bullet proof rack mounted case with 8 Terabyte Seagates in it. mmMMm 8000 gigs for Uncompressed audio and movies. Why didn't I just build that instead? Oh well, if Blu Ray doesn't fully take over, I could always sell it for 10 bucks.lol. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 5980
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 11:02 am: |
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And I'll buy it at your garage sale! |
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Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1039
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 11:17 am: |
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LOL!!! I would love to find some vintage stuff at some Garage sales this summer. Hopefully nobody is selling Blu Ray players at them just yet.lol. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 552
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 11:34 am: |
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Blu-ray at garage sales? Nah... HD-DVD players? Maybe. |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 2647
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 12:39 pm: |
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It's now looking like Blu-ray has won the war. Warner Bros have pulled out of HD-DVD and Paramount is about to do the same since they have a get-out clause which allows them to withdraw HD-DVD support if Warners pulls out. So it looks like it's over.
BluRay is coming down in price too, slowly but surely. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 553
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 12:58 pm: |
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I returned my HD-DVD player. I gambled and I lost ;-) |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1041
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 01:36 pm: |
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lol Many of us did David, when Blockbuster and Target went Blu-Ray thats when I pulled the trigger on the blu ray side. I got lucky. Since day one I thought Blu Ray was going to win just based on Company backing it had. Toshiba??lol Are you kidding me...bye bye HD DVD. Amazon.com have over 400 Blu Ray Titles now. Its spreading like a disease. Hopefully it sticks around, but if not at least by then I will have large enough collection to keep it.LOL. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 554
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 02:57 pm: |
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How do you like your Sony BD player?
I had a Sharp but brought it back. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1042
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 03:28 pm: |
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Good, it was the big dog in the Sony line. Really really slow to boot up with the first two gen of firmware. With the third installment it works great. Still slower load time than a typical DVD player, but worth the wait for that Blu Ray magic. Besides it gives me time to make my popcorn.lol. Sharp has a second gen unit coming out that is suppose to be much improved over their first. Look for Samsung's new one as well as I have read very very good things about it. If you want to go big, check out the new Sony(big dog) and the new Pioneer Elite. |
Bronze Member Username: Dudywoxer
Scunthorpe
UK
Post Number: 37
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 06:04 pm: |
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The strange thing about the death of CD, and its historical similes, is that Rega have just released their best CD player to date. The last time they released something as its death was announced was the RB range of tonearms, just in time for the 'death' of vinyl. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9618
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 07:00 pm: |
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The rb300 arm is just fine with the vpi table, TYVM. |
Bronze Member Username: Magfan
USA
Post Number: 97
Registered: Oct-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 12:39 am: |
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BlueRay vs HD
It ain't over 'til it's over.
It is STILL POSSIBLE for HD to stage a coup. Posssible, but not probable?
For example::
What if HT and Home use goes BlueRay and confusers end up w/HD?.....It might be easier to make a HD burner or the media is enough cheaper.
OR:
What about MicroShaft? The XBox360 supports HD, not BlueRay. I'm not sure about contractual tie-ups, but all the software for the XBox would need to come out in BlueRay, not to mention the 10s of thousands of HD drives now out for this toy. MicroShaft would suffer badly if they had to concede defeat to Sony on this issue.
Combo players are available and getting less expesive, too....last I heard you could get one for 700$us.
A media server is looking better and better with software delivered over phone lines or cable. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1043
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 09:41 am: |
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Leo- I went with a MicroShaft 360 for gaming and the Sony Blu Ray for movies. I see that the Microshaft(I like that name) HD DVD player ADD ON is now down to like 100 bucks.lol. I can honestly see Microsoft bring out 200 dollar blu ray add on's in another few years. Maybe. Who knows. I wouldn't think Microripoff are too concerned about losing the DVD war. Owning 90 percent of the world and all. The WH@RES. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 555
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 09:51 am: |
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Don't hold back, Nick. LOL. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1045
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 10:26 am: |
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Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 557
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 10:41 am: |
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What do you guys think of the NAD CD players. If I was gonna get one (and it's a big if - a lot of work changing those CDs...), my dealer sells mostly NAD CDP. Any good? |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 5990
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:15 am: |
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David NAD's are decent cd players. They don't do anything particularly offensive however they don't do too much to impress either. Once you get to the C542 level your money may be better spent (not sure which one you are looking at). I used to own a C542, decent but a bit grainy and lacks musical drive. At that price I would check the used market for something else..say a Rega Jupiter. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 558
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:23 am: |
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Thanks Art. |
Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy
Brooklyn,
NY
United States
Post Number: 1744
Registered: Oct-04
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:32 am: |
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Consider the NAD 525BEE http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/nad_c525bee.htm if you're on a budget, if the budget allows for something a bit more extravagant, then the NAD Master Series M5 http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Reviews/Real_Hi_Fi/J7N7M2F6 would be on my short list. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1046
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 06:09 pm: |
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David- Art is right, great cd players for the money but once you hit the C542, save the pennies for a few more paychecks and go up to a used Rega. The NAD cd players, like everything NAD does, is a sound that u either love or hate. The NAD cd players sound good, but are flat, and slightly grainy as Art stated. I don't mean Flat as a bad thing, thats just what they sound like. LIke I said, you either like it or you don't. The Rega's have a much more detailed high end, and better PrAT than the NAD's. The NAD classic series I think have more bottom end though. To each their own. If you take 10 people listening to a C542 and a Rega cd player, I would say 8 of the 10 would pick the Rega. Now when you get up to the Masters series line its a different ball game. Again though, u either love it or hate it. The sound is still flat, which is what NAD tries to do, but much better soundstage and the grit is gone. More comparable to the Rega stuff. Which one you prefer is up to your ears. |
Silver Member Username: Wattsssup
Barrie,
ON
Canada
Post Number: 190
Registered: Aug-06
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 07:02 pm: |
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David, if I were you, I'd look into upgrading your DAC instead. I think your already on the right path with the lossless files.
The Bel Canto DAC 2 blew me away, when I had borrowed it from a friend for a weekend. We had it playing lossless from a laptop and seperate hardrive. It was better in every way than any cd player I've ever tried in my system (MF, Rotel, Technics, Fisher...I know, not all quality, but stil...) He got it used off Canuck Audio Mart for $600cnd.
Just a thought. |
Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy
Brooklyn,
NY
United States
Post Number: 1747
Registered: Oct-04
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 07:25 pm: |
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I think the NAD M5 is much better than it's been portrayed in this thread.
I suggest you give it a listen to decide for yourself. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1047
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 07:34 pm: |
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I really liked the M5. It was a wee bit out of my price range.
Marc's DAC idea is a great one as well. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 5996
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 07:42 pm: |
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The M5 is a fine player however again once you get past the 525BEE NAD has a hard time being competetive. And ofcourse that's just my opinion. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9625
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 09:34 pm: |
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The M5 went head to head with the Rega Saturn for MikeW and I. The M5 is a very good player, the Saturn just better, especially after 1 hr of playing. |
Silver Member Username: Dmitchell
Ottawa,
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 559
Registered: Feb-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 09:48 pm: |
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Just out of curiosity, what would be the going rate for a used Rega Saturn?
Thanks for all the suggestions. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9626
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 10:03 pm: |
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Are there used Saturns out there? |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 5999
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 10:03 pm: |
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Keep watching Agon David, they show up occasionally...not much in the way of a break on them especially since it just went up in price. The Rega Jupiter can be had for a very good price and it's a heck of a player. Just a thought. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1049
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:17 pm: |
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I see the M5 is 1799.99 Cdn now. How much is the Saturn, isnt it like 2500? Just curious. I have read on a few review sites that some people actually prefer the sound of the Apollo over the Saturn. I wonder why that is though. ? Just wondering. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1050
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:20 pm: |
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I would have no doubt in my mind that a Saturn would hot smash the M5.lol. I would love to hear a Saturn. I would think an M5/Apollo comparison would be a more fair one perhaps. Not sure. |
Gold Member Username: Mike3
Wylie,
Tx
USA
Post Number: 1045
Registered: May-06
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 01:30 am: |
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Nick,
Apollo is a bit different in presentation than the Saturn. It has been covered in other threads. There are some recordings which sound better on the Saturn and the Apollo has better synergy with some systems. Overall the Saturn will be the best option the majority of the time. I owned an Apollo and now own a Saturn. The M5 is closer to the Saturn than it is to the Apollo IMO.
I listened to all 3 and now have a Saturn FWIW. I also listen louder than most and my primary genre is classic rock, though my collection is very broad and I really do listen to a wide variety of music. The Saturn fits my "profile" better than any other player. LOL.
In fact Division Bell by Pink Floyd is entertaining me on the Saturn right now. |
Gold Member Username: Mike3
Wylie,
Tx
USA
Post Number: 1046
Registered: May-06
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 01:48 am: |
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Some discussion above is along the lines that the media servers are coming and will be the "standard" and will be the best format.
Maybe I am missing something here but going on the basis of live music, generally the musicians are in front of me and provide anywhere from a poor to an exhilaratingly sound. But when I listen to live music I do not have stuff coming at me from all sides, it is generally two dimensional with a variety of depth and echo depending on the venue.
So I guess the idea of multi-channel audio for music is lost on me. I never sat in the middle of a band or orchestra to where I would expect to hear the music coming from over either of my shoulders.
As to media servers being the best sounding of the formats, either I mis-read something or need you guys to help me out and get me up to speed on this.
I would have to think that a media server would be digital. How is that format better than any other format?
I prefer vinyl over CD 99.9% of the time as a preferred format, so I have to ask, how will a media server outperform an LP?
How is a lossless file on a hard drive any better than a Redbook CD recording or a vinyl recording?
What loss are the CD or vinyl experiencing that a media server overcomes?
See, I really do not get it, so your enlightenment is truly appreciated.
Until then, vinyl is MY standard, and I will alternately enjoy my CDs. When lazy or looking for something new I will rely on my tuner, warts and limitations notwithstanding. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6001
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 03:21 am: |
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Forgive my mistake Michael...I meant best sounding digital format as vinyl will be my standard as well. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1051
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 08:30 am: |
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LOL I agree with you Michael. Media servers will be here just for easy access to a lot of music, and could easily be setup to sound better than a cd player. But, nothing will ever beat LP IMO.
I must ask, I am fairly new here, and never knew you had tested all three of those cd players Michael. Is there a thread somewhere that I can read on the differences you found? Did the Apollo in any way sound better than the M5 at any time? Or did the M5, to you, win majority of the time. What characteristics to each bring to the table. I would think both would sound totally different, so I am just curious. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9628
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 08:40 am: |
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http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/351996.html |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9629
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 08:40 am: |
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http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/351984.html |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1052
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 08:41 am: |
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Thanks Nuck, I was just about to search for that. Saved me the effort good man. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9634
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 09:27 am: |
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ya mon |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1053
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 09:28 am: |
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Good read for sure. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9635
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 09:40 am: |
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Some extra stuff in the adventure one, but if you got time to kill... |
Silver Member Username: Wattsssup
Barrie,
ON
Canada
Post Number: 191
Registered: Aug-06
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 09:56 am: |
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First off...Vinyl RULES!
Now that that's out of the way, I think there are 2 "audio" advantages with lossless files over redbook CD.
First advantage is that you can remove jitter from the equation. There's no disc spinning at however many revolutions per second, while being tracked by a "freakin laser beam"(Sorry, had to quote Dr. Evil on this one). There's good copying software that will read the disc multiple times and correct most, if not all reading errors prior to making the copy.
Second, I think the money you would spend on a CD player for the transport, DAC and whatever else, could go much further if all that money went into a DAC only.
That's just my thought process, but some may think a little differently. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 6002
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 10:41 am: |
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Always keep in mind when reading equipment comparisons...if you know ofcourse...what kind of music the reviewer or listener listens to a majority of the time and what characteristics, agian if you know, that the reviewer or listener value in a system. I think that Mike and Nuck probably represent a majority here in their listening preferences and also probably what they value in a system. |
Gold Member Username: Nickelbut10
Post Number: 1054
Registered: Jun-07
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 10:55 am: |
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Very True Art. I was thinking...out of all the preferences each person has in what they want to hear in their system, I wonder if Age could make a big difference. I don't know if Im making sense. But experience is big of course, and that comes with age? How we listen I think would change depending on age, and the way we all want out systems to sound. I am just babbling. I don't mean to refer to someone being older than anybody. But just based on how each person listens to music, Im sure would differ depending on how old they are? Am I making sense here? Frig im tired. Long night. Either way, based on my experiences with cd players, I would have probably picked the Saturn over the M5 as well. I sure do love my Apollo. |
Silver Member Username: Wattsssup
Barrie,
ON
Canada
Post Number: 192
Registered: Aug-06
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| Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 11:16 am: |
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Oh, BTW, the Bel Canto talk above was not meant as a recommendation for that product in particular. There are plenty to choose from. Opinions will vary. |
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