Receiver and amp/preamp?

New member

Username: Lamcam

Stanton, Ca
Usa

Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 01:23 pm:

Hi all,
I am new in this board and in audio world. I have the HK AVR635 and use it for music and movies. I'd like to add more power to the front speakers for music to make them sound better (I guess!). Should I buy a 2-channel amp and hook up to my receiver's preout or buy a new amp/preamp combo? I'd like to keep my receiver due to space limit. Also, do I have to buy the same brand amp as my receiver? Any inputs are appreciated.
Thanks all.

Jan Vigne

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 11766
Registered: May-04

Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 03:26 pm:

.

What speakers are you using? Why do you believe more power will make them sound better? What doesn't sound good about them right now with your receiver in charge?

New member

Username: Lamcam

Stanton, Ca
Usa

Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 03:33 pm:

I am using NHT classic 4 speakers as fronts. Their sounds still missing something to me. I want them to sound cleaner.

Silver Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 718
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 07:06 pm:

Loc ho- what kind of music are you listening to? And what is your source?(cd player or dvd player)

New member

Username: Lamcam

Stanton, Ca
Usa

Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 07:35 pm:

I listen to soft rock, trance, pop,... and I have a dvd player.

Jan Vigne

Platinum Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 11767
Registered: May-04

Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 07:58 pm:

.

"Their sounds still missing something to me. I want them to sound cleaner."

That means nothing to me.

david pannell

Silver Member

Username: Davidpa

Portland, Oregon
US

Post Number: 498
Registered: Nov-05

Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 09:02 pm:

Getting a quality 2 channel amp may help out a bit here.
I think I follow your question. You'd like cleaner sound at a higher volume? NHTs do require a bit more power than you are currently giving them.
If, by getting the 2 channel amp, it doesnt help eliminate some of your problems, then you could get into a pre as well.
Or, for free, you could try placement of said speakers, room treatment, or both.
But, I tend to think you are underpowering them, and the HK is not letting your speakers perform to their capabilities. JMO

Art

Gold Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 5654
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 09:37 pm:

I was at my NHT dealers store on Saturday and he was taklking about how he and the distributor were listening to them with his Marantz receiver and the midrange sounded boxy...the distributor left agreeing. Later my dealer (and friend for over 20 yrs) said he put the NHT's on the business end of an Audio Research Hybrid pre and a Hafler Power amp and heard those NHT's just come to life, he called the distributor and recanted his earlier statement. The NHT's require a great deal of current to breath and really will improve greatly with electronics upgrades alot further up the chain than you are gonna want to head. Baby steps start with a good integrated...

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 2265
Registered: May-05

Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 11:30 pm:

NHTs are notorious for being power/current hungry. They demand more than what most people would pair them up with due to their price.

That being said, I don't know if the OP will in fact hear differences from solely adding a more powerful amp. All we know is he wants them to sound cleaner, uses a DVD player, and the types of music he listens to.

Upgrading the source my provide a 'cleaner' sound for less money and hassle.

Silver Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 721
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 07:04 am:

"Upgrading the source my provide a 'cleaner' sound for less money and hassle"

I agree. Dont use a crap DVD player, Ive had many, and it really does make a big difference.

New member

Username: Lamcam

Stanton, Ca
Usa

Post Number: 4
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 10:49 am:

Thanks all! But now my question is: "do you think will the sound be better with an external 2 channel amp? or will I have to change my power source?"

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 2268
Registered: May-05

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 11:07 am:

"do you think will the sound be better with an external 2 channel amp? or will I have to change my power source?"

I think you've misunderstood what we mean. By source, we mean CD player, DVD player, etc.

The answer is both should make a difference. They would be noticable to people who listen to live music and pay attention when listening through their home stereo. If you sit down and focus on the music, you should hear a difference.

If you're main purpose is having background music or listening to music while you play video games, watch TV, etc. Its not worth it.

Most people don't hear the difference between good stereos and mass market junk because they don't sit and listen to the music. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Everyone's priorities are different.

People come into my house and are amazed that I paid $1000 for a CD player. 'It only plays CDs? No movies? No video games?' When I have them sit down and actually listen to the music, they start to get it. Then when I connect my iPod to my stereo, they finally really grasp what I'm talking about.

But they don't rush out and buy anything close to what I've got. That's not their priority. Much in the same way I don't rush out and buy things they may be obsessed with.

So getting back on track here - if you really pay attention to music, then yes a power amp should make a big difference. A better CD player - not a DVD player - should also make a very big difference. The amount of difference depends on how 'into' the music you are.

Silver Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 729
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 11:23 am:

I couldnt agree more with Stu. I have had the same thing happen to me as well. People cant believe I spent 1200 dollars on a cd player. But once they see it, and listen to it, then they understand.

New member

Username: Lamcam

Stanton, Ca
Usa

Post Number: 5
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 11:35 am:

My understanding is digital is digital...output from a dvd player or cd player is digital...101100110011. What is the difference?
Thanks.

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 2270
Registered: May-05

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:14 pm:

No player reads every 1 and 0 correctly. Hence error correction. No player times the stream 100% accurately, hence jitter. Better players do this better.

There are a ton of different DACs. The DAC converts the 1s and 0s to an analog signal. Better DACs sound better.

There's also how the power is managed, how well it is regulated to the the transport and DAC, how well it is isolated from other internal components, and so on.

Then there is vibration isolation. This is just scratching the surface. I think you get what I'm saying.

I'm not saying you will or will not hear a difference between CD players. The only way to tell if you will is to go to a hifi shop (not Best Buy, Circuit City, etc) and hear a few different CD players through the same amp and speakers. If you don't hear a difference, that's fine. Keep what you have.

If you do hear a difference, you may have opened Pandora's Box to the world of home audio obsession.

Silver Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 731
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:30 pm:

mmmMMmmmMMmm Audio Obsession. DAC's is a biggy. Rotel and NAD use the BEE's and Arcam and Rega use the Wolfson. There is a noticeable difference between the two. Loc Ho, bring home a cd player and compare it to your dvd player. Even when I upgraded my LG dvd player to my NAD dvd player a few years back there was a big difference in sound.

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 2272
Registered: May-05

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:35 pm:

And yet another reason, according to Bryston's VP of marketing -

"During our research on the CD Player we found that many of the DVD drives we looked at are optimized for video playback and had "clocking" frequencies that were not a multiple of the CD standard of 44.1. As a result they have to 'processes' the digital signal to a much greater extent to play a CD. I think this is why many people feel CD dedicated players usually sound better than DVD players playing a CD."

New member

Username: Lamcam

Stanton, Ca
Usa

Post Number: 6
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:44 pm:

Thanks again! Now more questions from a newbie to the experts: "if I get a external amp, and use my receiver as the preamp and processor, will the power to run my speakers straight from the amp or from the receiver?" and "what's the different between the receiver doing the preamp job and the preamp alone?"
Thanks again!

Silver Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 732
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:45 pm:

Indeed. Good post Stu. Good to know the actual technical reason behind it.

Gold Member

Username: Stu_pitt

Irvington, New York
USA

Post Number: 2273
Registered: May-05

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 01:31 pm:

The power will come from the power amp, not the receiver.

There isn't a difference between them as I believe you're putting it. The receiver wiil essentially be a pre-amp in this instance.

A seperate pre-amp should sound better, but again it depends on how you're listening. A seperate pre-amp generally uses better parts, has better shielding, power regulation, and on an on.

Most notably, a seperate pre-amp should theoretically sound cleaner.

I'm not usre if you're after a 2 channel system that you also hook up your TV to, or a surround system. I'm also not sure if you're trying to improve music quality or movie sound quality.

New member

Username: Lamcam

Stanton, Ca
Usa

Post Number: 7
Registered: Nov-07

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 02:18 pm:

Thanks Stu for keep helping me with my questions. I am planning to keep my receiver for movie, adding 2 channel amp for music. I am trying to improve the quality in music without spending big (wife will kill me)

. My budget is less than 1K.

Silver Member

Username: Nickelbut10

Post Number: 733
Registered: Jun-07

Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 02:32 pm:

If the receiver is a must for now, and will be staying due to budget. What I would suggest is perhaps what I did. Adding a 2 channel power amp to your front speakers, using the Receiver as a pre for the fronts leaving it to only power the center and rears will help quit a bit. It will make two channel listening more enjoyable, and open the sound stage considerably for movies in surround sound. If you buy a separate integrated amp for just music, be prepared to buy a pair of speakers as well.