| Author |
Thread: Cd player w/ rotel and B&W |
    
New member Username: Danonc
Post Number: 1
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 08:34 pm: |
|
Hi all,
I am a first-time poster here, but have snooped around the forum for a long time. I have recently (in the last year) bought a Rotel RA1062 integrated amp and a pair of B&W685 bookshelf speakers. I am currently using a Marantz DV4001 DVD player as my CD player. I am a bit frustrated because CD playback, to my ears, sounds thin, bright, and lacks "presence", especially in the vocals. I'm guessing that replacing the DVD player with a CD player would help, but I'm not sure what might be a good fit. I don't want to get a cd player that is too bright. Oh, by the way, I am using an older (~10yrs) audioquest interconnect and kimber 4VS speaker cable (also ~10 yrs old). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Dan J |
|
Relevant Product Info
|
|
New member Username: Danonc
Post Number: 2
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 08:35 pm: |
|
I almost forgot, my budget for cd player, cables etc. is 400-500 bucks.
Dan J |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 5536
Registered: Feb-05
|
| Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 09:27 pm: |
|
The matching Rotel cd player should match up well. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 5537
Registered: Feb-05
|
| Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 09:28 pm: |
|
It's bit more than your budget but I think it's worth it. |
Bronze Member Username: Hawkbilly
Nova Scotia
Canada
Post Number: 66
Registered: Jul-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 07:13 am: |
|
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1198782870
Some folks do characterize the Rotel sound as being on the bright side. No way of knowing whether you'd perceive that as such or not. Some rather like the sound. I would think it would be an improvement, but I'm not familiar with your Marantz. |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 2476
Registered: Sep-04
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 02:32 pm: |
|
Thing is, the 685s are anything but bright. And Marantz players are suually a bit on the warm side.
Now audioquest cables on the other hand, are fairly dry so maybe that's not helping...but it's just a guess so not very helpful - sorry! |
New member Username: Danonc
Post Number: 3
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 03:03 pm: |
|
Thanks for the input. Maybe what I'm hearing is "thin" as opposed to bright. My listening room is rather bright, with lots of hard surfaces. Although I have covered many of the surfaces with cloth (rugs, wall hangings, etc.). Maybe the lack of bass (since they're only 6" drivers) makes them seem thin.....
Could folks recommend a CD player (Cambridge, NAD, Denon, etc.) and/or cables that are perceived as warm?
Thanks again,
Dan J |
New member Username: Danonc
Post Number: 4
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 03:06 pm: |
|
Another thought: I tend to listen at fairly low volumes. I primarily listen to older rock (e.g., Dire Straits, Little Feat), acoustic music (old time, bluegrass) and jazz (again older stuff like Monk, Evans, Miles). |
Bronze Member Username: Hawkbilly
Nova Scotia
Canada
Post Number: 67
Registered: Jul-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 04:21 pm: |
|
I'm far from the expert, but I'll relay my own experience. I was also suffering from a terribly annoying brightness, or harshness, in my system. It's mostly taken care of now, with the following changes.
- some folks here directed me to some articles on speaker placement, listening position, and especially reflective points. Messing with this helped a bit....maybe 10% of the problem.
- I bought a new set of Kimber speaker cables and interconnects (cdp to amp). Big difference in overall sound, but the harshness was still largely there. Maybe another 10% corrected. You may not need to spend significant dollars on cables, as there are some links around here somewhere for very good DIY cables if you're up for a minor amount of work. I'm going to give them a go sometime, but haven't yet.
- I replaced my NAD cdp with a Channel Islands Dac (NAD is transport now). Huge change. After break-in, the sound was so much more relaxed, and I added detail along with it. Problem solved.
So, for me much of my issue was not room related, but source related. But my listening room is different from yours so you might solve your problem in another way entirely. |
|
|
Bronze Member Username: Hawkbilly
Nova Scotia
Canada
Post Number: 68
Registered: Jul-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 04:25 pm: |
|
And as Frank says, if your Marantz is really on the warm side, replacing it may not solve your problem. Is there a way you can borrow a different source to see what the affect might be ? |
New member Username: Danonc
Post Number: 5
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 07:49 pm: |
|
There is a NAD/Marantz dealer in town that has let me audition components at home for a few days at a time. He would probably let me take a cd player home for the weekend to see if that's the problem. |
Bronze Member Username: Hawkbilly
Nova Scotia
Canada
Post Number: 70
Registered: Jul-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 08:05 pm: |
|
Cool. Grab the nicest piece he'll trust you with. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 5539
Registered: Feb-05
|
| Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:04 pm: |
|
Hi Dan, you wouldn't be talkin' about Jim would ya.
He is a great guy but he doesn't have any great cd players at this point. Best bet locally or regionally is in Portland or Eugene. I got your PM but hadn't put together that this was you. Let's talk....I'll PM you (again). |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 2483
Registered: Sep-04
|
| Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 01:56 pm: |
|
Dan, does it sound almost like vocals are recessed into the mix? The cables would be my bet on that, but you'd have to try others before being sure... |
New member Username: Danonc
Post Number: 6
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 03:57 pm: |
|
Yes, exactly. Recessed is a good word for it. Should I try a different interconnect first, before buying something more expensive (e.g. cd player)? |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 9065
Registered: Dec-04
|
| Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 07:20 pm: |
|
Dan, try whatever you can get your hands on for a trial at home. |
New member Username: Ckoffend
Kalamazoo,
MI
USA
Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-07
|
| Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 04:50 pm: |
|
No offense, but at this level of equipment, I don't suspect that a cable change is going to make as big of a difference as you are hoping. By all means, give it a shot, but don't get your hopes up too high.
The Marantz CD players are typically not bright, I cannot speak for the DVD players used for audio. A DVD player is frequently going to be voiced differently than a CD player and this could be the diff. between a Marantz CD and DVD players. I recently saw a Marantz CD63SE on Audiogon, this is a known good CDP (albeit maybe a bit old and who knows how much longer it will last).
Another option would be to consider a decent (used) DAC that would give you something to grow with anyway (my recommendation, but maybe another $150 would be a CAL Alpha). |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 2499
Registered: Sep-04
|
| Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 12:50 pm: |
|
Dan
If you have the opportunity to try without buying, I would definitely look into it. I appreciate where Chris is coming from but I feel that this is worth pursuing in order to clarify what's going on.
But make sure that if you try something it's on a borrow or 'sale or return' basis, just in case the cables make little difference.
Regards,
Frank. |
New member Username: Funkmeister
Post Number: 8
Registered: Nov-07
|
| Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 01:39 pm: |
|
Cables alone will not solve your isssue. But changing them (interconnects and speaker) might make a marginal difference. None of the equipment you mention generally sounds especially bright or thin to me although I have heard others suggest that of those speakers. |
Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30
New Zealand
Post Number: 168
Registered: Jun-06
|
| Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 05:05 am: |
|
This is what i would do, thought its hard to point why the sound is Bright.
Logically none of the equipment you mentioned is bright and/or thin so i would definately give a shot with the cables first as suggested earlier.
Its hard to call 1062 bright as it is bright but in the slightest way - nothing that will cause grief IMHO, especially with the new B&Ws and Marantz CDP.
1.) Replace the cables, but i would start with the speaker cables and replace them with Audioquest type 4 and then perhaps look at the inter connects - key here would be to look at good value for money stuff, so either ways you would be happy in the long run.
2.) Replace Audio Quest Interconnects with something thats good value for money and not too expensive at the same time. I had some good results with my 1062 and B&Ws (602/603).
3.) Look at a new CD player - I wouldnt only look at the Matching Rotel CDP or a Cambridge 640 V2 NOT a NAD For synergy.
cheers |
New member Username: Danonc
Post Number: 7
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 05:01 pm: |
|
Maybe what I've been experiencing is just a lack of familiarity.
My old system was a Nakamichi receiver (used only as a preamp), an older Rotel 980 (120W) power amp, a yamaha cd player an Boston Acoustics T830 speakers. Now, it was certainly not the most detailed system in the world, but there was a rich, warm quality to vocals, saxophones, piano , etc. I thoroughly enjoyed that setup for about 15 yrs, so the sound is burned into my brain, so to speak.
I'm also a musician. I play mandolin and guitar, mostly jazz and bluegrass (maybe that matters, maybe not). It's funny that the same thing seems to happens with instruments....I played an old acoustic guitar for 10 years and when I was ready to upgrade, I was looking for a guitar that sounded like my old one!
Having said that, I've recently auditioned many cd players. Rotel, Music Hall, Cambridge, NAD (but not with my current setup), etc. Many of them sound "cold" to me, similar to my current setup at home (see first post).
I just want the warmth back, even if it is less detailed. So, my questions are: should I just go to vinyl? Should I be looking for older equipment, or tube equipment, etc?
Also, of the cd players Ive heard I think I liked the NAD best. Would it be a bad idea to partner a Rotel amp and an NAD cd player?
Any ideas, comments, etc are really appreciated.
Dan |
New member Username: Ckoffend
Kalamazoo,
MI
USA
Post Number: 4
Registered: Nov-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 05:31 pm: |
|
Dan,Are you listening to the same discs for comparitive purposes? How about auditioning a system that sells for tens of thousands of dollars, but one which your dealer refers to as warm sounding (as opposed to sterile, dry or bright). Perhaps the sound is the disc and your old system just added distortion and was "soft" so to speak.While I am not a big believer as others are that you will change your sound that significantly with cables at this level of equipment, there is no harm in trying.Ever consider a tube buffer? Music Fidelity offers these, I believe they are XCans and never personally listened to one. But my thought is that this approach may deliver a little more warmth to your taste, but not cause you too loose the higher levels of details that you may feel are contributing to your bright sound.Perhaps others with tube buffer experience can weigh in? |
New member Username: Danonc
Post Number: 8
Registered: Oct-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 06:13 pm: |
|
Yep, same discs on each system. I always go back to an Ella and Louis disc and Kind of Blue. The one system that I have heard lately that offered really good warmth was a system with Magnepan 1.6 spkrs driven by a Rogue integrated amp and a (oddly enough) Rotel cd player. However, my budget is limited and the Magnepan/Rogue combo is way out of reach. |
New member Username: Ckoffend
Kalamazoo,
MI
USA
Post Number: 5
Registered: Nov-07
|
| Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 08:21 pm: |
|
Okay, so we have ruled out the discs as being bright in and of themselves, good progress.
Would your dealer where you heard this system consider letting you use the Rotel CD player for one night, say a Monday or Tuesday (when they are slow)? You would likely need to pay for it on a CC and have the option to return it the next day. Indicate you want to try the one that they are demoing - this will likely be acceptable to them - virtually no risk to them, they did not use up a brand new piece for an inhome trial.
I don't personally think that most mass market DVD players are designed to perform well with music, your comments about the performance of your music is not too surprising.
I do think you would see leaps and bounds of improvement with an integrated amp and new speakers, but I understand this takes time and money. Buy used for amps especially, Audiogon should have some decent tubed integrated amps in the $500 range - they last a very long time!
Speakers the same, you have a lot of choices here and also can be had very inexpensively.
I am still convinced a person can put together a very good CD based system for $1,500 or less on the used market. One that will compete favorably with the box store systems costing $2,500-$3,000+. |
Silver Member Username: Mike3
Wylie,
Tx
USA
Post Number: 941
Registered: May-06
|
| Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 10:40 pm: |
|
Check out Craigslist as well. There have been a couple of MAC integrateds posted in Dallas recently for less than $500 each. You need a CD player not a DVD player for music unless you get into some esoteric extravagant gear, IMO. |
