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Thread: Peel paint from the walls |
    
New member Username: Rocks911
Post Number: 1
Registered: Aug-07
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| Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 01:32 pm: |
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I own a Parasound preamp and a Sunfire 200 wpc amp. Simple question: What moderately priced speaker can reliably produce outrageous sound levels?
I recently purchased Polk's RTi12 speakers and am not entirely satisfied (luckily I only paid $800, otherwise I'd be quite upset). I played Soundgardens Badmotorfinger at +4 db and the speakers shut down within five minutes. What speaker can handle very dynamic music at very loud volumes without submitting. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 10996
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 02:41 pm: |
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The speakers didn't shut down, the amplifier went into protection. Big difference.
How much do you want to spend? |
New member Username: Rocks911
Post Number: 2
Registered: Aug-07
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| Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 03:01 pm: |
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Not so,
The rest of my speakers were working just fine. I had them dialed down but they didn't shut down the mains did. You think that's the Sunfire? |
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 10999
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 03:54 pm: |
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I don't know. You've confused me with facts I didn't have before me a few moments ago. What do you mean, "The rest of my speakers were working just fine. I had them dialed down but they didn't shut down the mains did." How many speakers do you ahve connected to the amp and how are they connected? Are there switches and volume controls involved here?
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New member Username: Rocks911
Post Number: 3
Registered: Aug-07
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| Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 04:21 pm: |
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I have a 5.1 system all connected to a Sunfire 200 wpc amp through a Parasound preamp.
I had the surround set to the "party" mode which delivers stereo through the mains and rear channels and a stereo mix through the center channel. I can independently adjust each of the 5.1 configuration, the mains, the rears, the center, and the sub. I had the rear and center speakers turned down relative to the mains. When I turn the music up they all get louder, but the mains are much louder relative to the rest of the speakers.
Anywho, I adjusted the volume to +4 db and within five minutes the mains shut down while the rest of the speakers were fine.
Also to answer your question about price, lets just say about $800 for mains. This is not necessarily something that I'm considering, my wife would kill me, but I'm wondering what speakers out there can handle seriously dynamic very loud music.
I read a lot of reviews that talk about for example Beethovens sixth concerto and the warm bassoon movement punctuated by timpani...etc.etc. and thats really not for me, I like loud grinding wall shaking sound, not all the time mind you but occasionally I enjoy it. I've never read a review that critiqued a speaker for its ability to play for example Soundgarden at outrageous levels for sustained amounts of time. Given a decent set-up, and I feel like I have a decent set-up with the Sunfire and Parasound combo, what speaker can perform what I am asking? |
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 11000
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 06:29 pm: |
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Are the speakers still not working? A 5.1 system must have more than two channels of amplification. So, I assume you've just been running the Sunfire on the front speakers or the Sunfire is a multichannel amplifier. Either way, speakers don't normally stop working all together. Amplifiers do.
If you have no sound from the speakers, the amp is probably at fault even though the other channels of amplification are still working. If you have no sound at all from the speakers, check the operation of the speakers to determine where the problem lies. Disconnect the speaker cables to the Polks at the amplifier and use a 1.5 volt battery to check the speakers. Touch the "+" & "-" legs of your speaker cable to the terminals of the battery and listen for a slight pop as the drivers move in or out. If you hear this sound and see the driver's move and you still have no sound at all from the amplfiier, the chances are you've fried the amplifier unless it has fused lines for each channel.
Otherwise, you need to look for speakers with a high sensitivity (or efficiency) rating. This is stated as "(90)db @ 1 meter @ 1 watt or 2.83 volts" on the spec sheet. The higher the decibel rating of the speaker at that 1 watt input the louder the speakers play for any amount of amplifier power. A 90dB speaker plays as if it had twice as much amplifier driving it as a 87dB speaker can. A 93dB speaker plays louder for the same amount of power output as a 90dB speaker.
Lines such as Klipsch, JBL and Cerwin Vega are typically high sensitivity speakers. High sensitivity often means the speaker is not as smooth in its frequency response as a less efficient speaker, so listen and compare. But volume comes from that dB rating. You can also look at pro audio sound reinforcement speakers for volume. Actively powered speakers are quite high in overall volume potential and can be had for not much money. Check with your local sound reinforcement shops for more information on this sort of speaker.
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New member Username: Albertaguy7
Medicine Hat,
Alberta
Canada
Post Number: 8
Registered: Mar-07
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| Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 06:30 pm: |
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I had a spy around in the site for your amp and I would say that Jan is right about the amp oing into protection mode. All thye amps seem to have seperate amp sections for each channel. Yours having 5 - 200 watt amps. You may have overdriven the two for the main speakers. Just a lil bit of info for you...just because you still have room to turn the volume knob doesn't mean the amp can handle the power you want to put out.
Back when I was a kid we used to but Cerwin Vega or JBL's if we wanted loud noise. I say noise because they didn't sound too good but you could hear it a few miles away if you cranked it up.
Turning it up past the amps handling ability can also cause the amp to spike, and then you may kiss it and the speakers goodbye. Warrenty will not cover overdriving of either the speakers or the amp. And, they will know you did it. |
Gold Member Username: Kano
BC
Canada
Post Number: 1217
Registered: Oct-04
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| Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 12:56 am: |
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I have the Polk Rti as well and I think they present a difficult load. While still being 8 Ohms they eat up a lot of power at high spls - I've had my 200W/C amp flashing reds into Rti 8s - wasn't even THAT loud, just a bass heavy recording.
Find a speaker with a higher sensitivity with less impedence swings if you're having trouble with the Rti12s... or get even more of an amp. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 8180
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 12:57 am: |
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DR, the Cerwin Vega line will pound till your ears bleed, especially the classic 15 series.
And they are cheap!
Like 112-114db in the room loud.
Stinking loud.
Huh?What?Is that the phone? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 11006
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 02:22 am: |
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No, it's your ears still ringing from those CV's you had five years ago. |
Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy
Brooklyn,
NY
United States
Post Number: 1197
Registered: Oct-04
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| Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 10:46 am: |
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I'll one up you Nuck, try the CLS-215 http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Cerwin-Vega-CLS215-15-inch-3-way-Tower-Spea kers/2118904/product.html .
They should come with a free copy of "ASL for Dummies". |
Gold Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 2024
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 11:02 am: |
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I've said it many times...
Cerwin Vega - The official speaker of the Canadian Ballet
And for very good reason. |
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 11009
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 11:21 am: |
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OW! I hurt myself hitting the floor. |
Bronze Member Username: Skeeterhead
Post Number: 76
Registered: Jul-07
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| Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 02:02 pm: |
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I don't believe it. Jan is actually referring to a spec sheet. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 8195
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 06:00 pm: |
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Stryvn said he has a pair of CV, what the hell are they? in the basement with 2 15" woofers.
What are they, Stryvn? |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 8196
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 06:01 pm: |
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Stryvn said he has a pair of CV, what the hell are they? in the basement with 2 15" woofers.
What are they, Stryvn?
Let's put our hands together for Crystal! |
Silver Member Username: Stryvn
Post Number: 374
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 06:35 pm: |
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lol...I love a good Ballet!
I gotta get those things back in working order so the kid can resume the paint removal.
And no eating the paint chips, Wiley! |
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 11029
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 10:11 pm: |
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Too late. The damage has been done. |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1462
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 11:36 pm: |
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"I don't believe it. Jan is actually referring to a spec sheet."
Jan, flagellation time again. |
Silver Member Username: Gavdawg
Upstate,
New York
Post Number: 782
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 07:18 am: |
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M.R.
I think "flatulation" might be more appropriate in that sentence :-P |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 8208
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 07:30 am: |
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On a more ominous note, I think 'infatuation' creeps in there as well. |
New member Username: Rocks911
Post Number: 4
Registered: Aug-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 08:10 am: |
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Thanks for the replies.
Apparently it is the amp, I've never experienced the amp shutting down before.
I have a pair of CV's in the attic I bought about eighteen years ago that need replacement speakers as they are paper and dry-rotted. As a young man thats all I used, CV that is, and now I understand why nothing else cranked quite like them, they seem to be the gold standard for ear bleeding sound levels.
Thanks again, and I love the comments, especially the "Canadian Ballet" comment. |
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 11033
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 11:10 am: |
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Yes, I will refer to a spec sheet on ocassion. This was one of them. If the discussion had progressed I would have mentioned enclosure volume as a relevant factor in SPL production. Fortunately, this thread doesn't have to got hat far.
It seemed of little value to take this thread down another course when the basic question was how to peel paint. That I gave a very simplified answer to that particular question, rather than confuse the issue by stating the irrelevance of specs, seemed the appropriate action. That in no way changes my opinion regarding the value of specifications. Just expediency, nothing else at play here. All , 88, 92 or 96dB speakers do not play at the same level. Specs are ultimately irrelevant other than HxWxD plus weight. As is, DR understands higher numbers in the sensitivity column represent high SPL's. That was the original question of the thread. Why anyone would wish to hijack yet another thread on this forum to serve their own ends is beyond me.
My job is over here. Yiho, Silver, away!
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Bronze Member Username: Skeeterhead
Post Number: 77
Registered: Jul-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:12 pm: |
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Oh, Oh, Janny done got upset. Not our fault if he can't make up his mind. |
Silver Member Username: Gavdawg
Upstate,
New York
Post Number: 786
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:49 pm: |
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Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy
Brooklyn,
NY
United States
Post Number: 1209
Registered: Oct-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:50 pm: |
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...JERKOFF ALERT!...JERKOFF ALERT!...
This is a coordinated monthly test of the broadcast stations in your area. Equipment that can quickly warn you of JERKOFFS is being tested. If this had been an actual JERKOFF such as Dennis Michael Wiley, official messages would have followed the alert tone. This concludes this test of the JERKOFF Alert System. |
Silver Member Username: Gavdawg
Upstate,
New York
Post Number: 787
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:53 pm: |
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Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 8219
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 01:33 pm: |
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hehehe |
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 11038
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 01:44 pm: |
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"You wanna go where people know,
people are all the same,
You wanna go where everybody knows
you're a troll." |
Bronze Member Username: Skeeterhead
Post Number: 78
Registered: Jul-07
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 08:32 am: |
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Very nice, intelligent responses. Of course, I use the word "intelligent" very loosely when applied to Gavin, Molloy, Nuck and Vigne. |
Silver Member Username: Gavdawg
Upstate,
New York
Post Number: 799
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 09:50 am: |
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loosely applied? like a hotdog down a hallway?
 |
Silver Member Username: Gavdawg
Upstate,
New York
Post Number: 800
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 09:51 am: |
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I do realize this is not a winning battle. |
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 11042
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 11:00 am: |
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When wiley suggests he has a clue what is "intelligent', it's time to fold the tents and declare victory.
Have a weinie, wiley.
. |
Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy
Brooklyn,
NY
United States
Post Number: 1213
Registered: Oct-04
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 01:43 pm: |
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It's absolutely a battle that can't be won, but that shouldn't preclude us from pouncing on this jackass. |
Bronze Member Username: Skeeterhead
Post Number: 84
Registered: Jul-07
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 02:05 pm: |
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Oh, Oh, it must be all idiots day. Here they come one after the other. |
Silver Member Username: Gavdawg
Upstate,
New York
Post Number: 801
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 02:15 pm: |
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I take it that was in reference to yourself? |
Gold Member Username: Exerciseguy
Brooklyn,
NY
United States
Post Number: 1214
Registered: Oct-04
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 02:17 pm: |
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Just who started this?
You poke your empty head into this thread, add nothing, and start slinging insults. What do you expect?
My advise is to switch names & start fresh, and make beleive this didn't happen. |
Silver Member Username: Gavdawg
Upstate,
New York
Post Number: 802
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 02:25 pm: |
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Chris, that is all Wiley ever does, and ever did before they were previously banned. He (or she) will pop into threads, and the above will occur, usually aimed at Jan. Lately, it has also been aimed at Nuck, Frank, and sometimes myself. |
Silver Member Username: Gavdawg
Upstate,
New York
Post Number: 803
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 02:29 pm: |
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It is to the point that he has become the messageboard cabin boy so to speak, because of how his crass and awful treatment of members has gotten out of hand. Most members who he has attacked don't think twice about jumping down his throat at any given instance. |
Silver Member Username: Stryvn
Post Number: 391
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 02:38 pm: |
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I feel slighted.
Wiley, you're ugly. |
Bronze Member Username: Skeeterhead
Post Number: 86
Registered: Jul-07
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 02:59 pm: |
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Man, I love free press. Was it Andy Warhol who said everybody gets 15 minutes of fame? |
Bronze Member Username: Skeeterhead
Post Number: 87
Registered: Jul-07
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 03:47 pm: |
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Gavin, I think the use of the word "they" would exclude reference to myself. Man, what a smart guy you are. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 8231
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 03:48 pm: |
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Yes it was.
But it was Nuck who invited you to takeasuckofmyass.
And troll Stryvn, he trades advice here too and hasn't been included in your inanities. |
Bronze Member Username: Skeeterhead
Post Number: 89
Registered: Jul-07
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 03:52 pm: |
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Nice, Nuck. Doing what you do best, I see. |
Silver Member Username: Stryvn
Post Number: 393
Registered: Dec-06
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 04:20 pm: |
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Sheesh. I get the sharp stick in the eye from Nuck.
When all I wanted was some lovin' from the Wiley Coyote.
ACME seperates and IC's. Does ACME publish specs, I wonder? |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 8233
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 04:58 pm: |
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Stryvn, just wanted Wiley to pay attention to you. No stick intended. |
Bronze Member Username: Skeeterhead
Post Number: 92
Registered: Jul-07
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| Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 07:52 am: |
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Turncoats are like that, Stryvn. |
Silver Member Username: Mike3
Wiley,
Tx
USA
Post Number: 616
Registered: May-06
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| Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 12:17 am: |
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DMW must be on welfare and traded his stamps for wine so he couldn't get his meds.
Poor little puppy all shriveled in a corner paranoid of everything and everybody. Don't worry, the next check is in the mail and you can contribute something positive for a week until, well you know it is a regular cycle with you.
Or maybe as Gavin suggests, you're just off your cycle, as usual. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 8267
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 12:39 am: |
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We got 3 buddies here, and Dale Wiley is chirping.
takeasuckofmyass
Wiley.
Did you miss that before? |
Bronze Member Username: Mekongdelta69
Grew up in Brooklyn an...
Post Number: 52
Registered: Apr-07
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| Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 05:50 am: |
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Trolls are on EVERY one of the hundreds of thousands of forums/boards on the Net, covering every conceivable topic known to mankind (ask your kids/grandkids how many trolls -- and far more dangerous -- predators, who hang out on teen/20s sites. I'd personally strangle those pervs if I ever caught one.)
Anyway, I don't care if you collect belly-button lint for a hobby -- there just HAS to be SOMEBODY who insists on sticking his nose in and acting like a 9 year old, petulant, spoiled brat. He doesn't get enough attention IRL, has low to no self-esteem and probably has a low-rent job, where he's an absolute nobody and couldn't buy a date with a call girl.
One example I can think of here was that idiot (Eric Gracka) in my thread where I was asking for CD upgrade opinions when I was brand new here. He claimed he was some kind of 'engineer' and then proceeded to keep posting the same msg. multiple times because he "couldn't get the hang of this sight(sic)." Another freakin' genius. He got banned, but his posts remain (unfortunately).
I used to argue with these Prozac-deprived people a long time ago until I realized I was wasting my time and energy. Once in a blue moon, when I'm bored and feel like sticking somebody in the eye, I'll still do it, but the best way to get rid of trolls is to ignore them. I'll grant you it's less fun than cursing them out or making fun of them, but it works almost every time. Sooner or later, like ignoring a kid having a temper tantrum, they get tired of whining because they don't get the attention they crave -- and just wither away back to doing what they do best -- bagging groceries at the A&P.
These miscreants pretty much live to get a rise out of people because the rest of their (real) lives are pretty pathetic, and when they do, it gives them a 'charge' and it makes them feel like they've served up some 'payback.' The targets of their insults are just stand-ins for their wives or girlfriends or bosses or the guy that beat them up in the bar last night. The Net just gives them further anonymity, so they get all stupid and brave. [You should see some of the trolls on the military sites I belong to. Not only did they take Hamburger Hill all by themselves -- they ate Hamburger Hill for lunch! We pretty much debunk guys like that in about 10 seconds...]
This is what I do now when I run across trolls:
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New member Username: Buzzy
Post Number: 3
Registered: May-07
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| Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 08:11 am: |
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This is such an awesome forum about speakers. |
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 11077
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 12:48 pm: |
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