Beginner stereo

New member

Username: Mperloff

Post Number: 1
Registered: Aug-06

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 03:40 am:

Hey guys, this post might sound familiar, but here goes:

I'm a college student with a little money in my pocket, and i'm looking to blow it on a relatively inexpensive stereo sound system.

I'm pretty set on a HK 3480 for a receiver, and now I'm looking into my speaker options. From reading this board, i've come up with a few ideas, but I can't decide the best way to invest my money - in a pair of floorstanding speakers (the Athena AS-F2 seem to pretty universally lauded) or a pair of bookshelf speakers (maybe Athena B1.2) and a sub (maybe HSU STF-1).

I'd be using the speakers 100% for music. I'm living in a dorm for the next year, and after that i'd probably be in some tiny apartment somewhere - so i guess that might be a strike against getting the system with the sub, as it might annoy the hell out of everyone around me.

I listen to everything - jazz, metal, classical, rock, hiphop - all basically in equal measure. I'm a big fan of bass - i'm really into loud, low drone/metal. I'm not sure if you guys listen to Sunn0))), or Earth, but i'm looking for something to handle pulsating, very low distorted bass. Really though, i'm looking for the best possible sound across the board, as my tastes change fairly frequently - having something that could handle pretty extreme bass would be a cherry on top.

So i'm wondering what the basic sonic differences would be between my two proposed setups, and what you guys think would fit for me. And if you have any other speaker suggestions, that'd be great too.

I'm gonna be playing music off of my computer, at least for now, but down the road i'll surely look at cd players.

Oh, and I'm looking to spend max $500 on some combination of speakers and subs.

Thanks so much - I realize you guys get a lot of these types of questions, and I appreciate your patience
Mark

Silver Member

Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO
USA

Post Number: 941
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 05:03 am:

Mark:

I just delivered my daughter to a major university, where she moved into the dorms. Last year, she was at another well known major university where she lived in the dorms. I have a really hard time imagining floorstanding speakers in a dorm room. Where would you put them? Would your roommate tolerate them? Dormrooms are about 150 sq. ft., usually divided by two people and further complicated by beds, desks, computers, etc., so the space is really small. Simply accomodating a subwoofer may be stressful enough.

No, small sats with a sub is probably your best bet. Now, your choice of receiver is, I think, a good one, and your Athena B1.2s are a good choice as well, although I wouldn't go any larger than that for a dorm room. But let me suggest a couple of much better speakers for a bit more money.

My first choice would be the NHT Absolute Zero, which is smoother and more detailed--you can see them here:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=NHTAZB&product_name=NHT% 20Absolute%20Zero,%20Each

If you like the Zeros, they can be had for less (about 20% off since they are a brand new product--so about $320 for the pair) from a number of dealers--check out Kiefs (www.kiefs.com, where you can get the phone number and call for a quote).

Another great small speaker would be the Epos ELS3s, which are $330/pr. and are quite good. Here is a dealer and a great description of the product:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=EPOELS3&product_name=ELS 3%20Mini%20Monitor%20Speakers%20-%20Pair

Both of these speakers are well known and highly thought of by both consumers and audio publications. The NHTs are too new to be included, but I know the Epos are listed as a "Recommended Component" by Sterophile (the bible of the audio enthusiast).

Finally, I found a deal on a discontinued subwoofer that I think is a real steal--the Canton AS 15, which I found here in black for $142:

http://www.techonweb.com/products/productdetail.aspx?id=B98853

Now, there is no question that the Hsu is a better sub, but it is twice the price, which means it could be outside your budget. Besdies, you will never be able to get the Hsu loud enough to know the difference so long as you are in the dorms. I offer the Canton as a good alternative that would keep you within your budget and keep your ears happy.

Good luck!

New member

Username: Mperloff

Post Number: 2
Registered: Aug-06

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 12:53 pm:

Thanks for the response, Hawk. I'm actually entering my senior year, so I understand the spatial limitations of a dorm room. I think i'd be able to fit floorstanding speakers in my room for the upcoming year, plus I was thinking of this system as lasting me well beyond college.

Are those speakers you listed significantly better than the B1.2? And is the Canton not significantly worse than the STF-1? I was a little worried, as you mention, about being able to utilize a subwoofer in a dorm room/apt buliding, but I figure the STF-1 would be small enough to get great sound out of without it overpowering my room and upsetting my neighbors.

Any other opinions on what might work for me?

Silver Member

Username: Stefanom

Silver Spring, MD
United States

Post Number: 141
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 01:43 pm:

I would suggest looking into the Alegria Audio Emma; while normally they are over your budget, they do have one on b-stock for 499 (which is consequently how I obtained mine as well). It is a medium to large sized bookshelf with the bass capability of a floorstander. I use it with the HK 3380 with excellent results.

Edster922

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 4502
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 03:25 pm:

another vote for the Emma, though one caveat: you will need at least 2, preferably 3 feet between the back of this speaker and the wall or the bass can get boomy (as well as knock stuff off your walls, heh).

I don't know about where you are, but at my college we didn't exactly have spacious dorm rooms.

Raj Patel

Bronze Member

Username: Raj_p

Evanston, IL
USA

Post Number: 58
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 04:09 pm:

I will third the Emmas. I love my pair. It was definitely very nice not needing a sub. I actually sold my Onix ULW-10 once I got these speakers because it simply wasnt necessary.

Timn8ter

Gold Member

Username: Timn8ter

Seattle, WA
USA

Post Number: 1069
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 04:42 pm:

I appreciate the recommendations fellas. I would like to share a recent experience where someone purchased a pair of Emmas only to return them saying they didn't have enough bass. Probably a surprise to some of you but if the OP is expecting loud, booming, synth/rap style bass he may be disappointed.

New member

Username: Mperloff

Post Number: 3
Registered: Aug-06

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 05:10 pm:

I mean, i'm not looking for loud, booming bass at the expense of the rest of the sound. I listen to a good amount of hiphhop, and, like i said earlier, bass-heavy drone, so it's definitely important to me. But at the same time, i don't like my bass bloated or overpowering.

A real issue, however, is the space needed between the speaker and the wall. I was planning on putting a pair of bookshelf speakers on a, um, bookshelf against my wall. I don't know how i'd find space to position them otherwise. I guess this would require a speaker stand?

Thanks for the replies guys.

Timn8ter

Gold Member

Username: Timn8ter

Seattle, WA
USA

Post Number: 1070
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 06:32 pm:

Placing a speaker against a wall means it will either have to be sealed or at least front ported. Emma is rear ported and requires a stand.

Raj Patel

Bronze Member

Username: Raj_p

Evanston, IL
USA

Post Number: 61
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 07:45 pm:

The bass definitely gets really boomy if you stuff Emma up against a wall...although maybe you could get rid of some of this with your itunes equalizer or something...I know that for a while I had a less than optimal living situation and I had to use mine with only baout a foot of clearance and I was able to tone down any excessive unwanted bass.

Edster922

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 4503
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 10:08 pm:

Tim, you probably wouldn't recommend stuffing a sock into Emma's back hole would you? : )

It worked like a charm on my nephew's Sony minisystem that came with a horrendous front-ported passive sub, though!

New member

Username: Mperloff

Post Number: 4
Registered: Aug-06

Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:24 am:

Hmmm. The Emma is really tempting. But I'm not sure i'll have room for them (her?) if they have to be spaced 2-3 feet from the wall. Plus, i wasn't anticipating having to buy speaker stands.

At the same time, i'm looking for speakers to last me well past school, so maybe I can make do with Emmas in my dorm until i move into a more comfortable living situation next year.

So with the Emma, i'd be able to get plenty of bass without a subwoofer?

Silver Member

Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO
USA

Post Number: 943
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 02:00 am:

You're a senior and you are still in the dorms? :-)

Just kidding--I had to do the same thing when I was a senior

OK, Mark, I have a better idea of where you are going with this. So, let me try to answer your questions as best I can.

1. Are my suggested speakers (the NHT Zeros and Epos ELS 3s) THAT MUCH better than the Athenas? Simply put, yes. Given your range of music preferences, I think you will find the Athenas to be a rock speaker that really doesn't do jazz and classical that well. The Zeros and the Epos will absolutely shine when displaying texture in the music; yet, they do not lack the ability to reproduce the energy in rock music. Nevertheless, you should try to find a local dealer where you can audition them. Take your receiver in and have them hook it up to these speakers (a good audio shop will be happy to do this if it isn't during high traffic times). See what you like best.

2. Is the Canton significantly worse than the Hsu? That is a tougher question. Certainly, Hsu is significantly better (at twice the price), but I think the Canton is a very worthy sub in its own right. My first sub was a Phase Tech sub, purchased open box to save money, but I quickly learned this sub was not well controlled and tended to bottom out a lot. The sound I got was too similar to what I heard from Cerwin Vegas and BICs. Lotta volume and a lot of distortion. The Canton is not like that. It is reasonably well controlled, and puts out a good signal at reasonable sound levels. Its MSRP was $299, so it was priced about the same as the Hsu. Having said that, it will not go as low as the Hsu will, nor will it reach the same db level when really driven (its amp has half the power of the BASH unit in the Hsu.). I was looking to save you a buck, but if you can raise enough cash for the Hsu, I say get it. You may want to skip the subwoofer until you are out of the dorm, anyways. I do think a sub has a high potential to really p*ss off a lot of people since you are in such tight quarters. So I guess if it were me, I would get a good, and I mean a good, set of bookshelf speakers and wait on a sub until I was out of school and had a better living situation. JMHO.

New member

Username: Mperloff

Post Number: 5
Registered: Aug-06

Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 03:43 am:

Thanks for your thoughtful replies, Hawk. You guys are alI giving me great information to work with - though i'm even more confused now than when i started. sigh - the world of the (budding) audio enthusiast.

I guess I should explain my current audio situation a little bit. I don't know why I didn't mention it before, but I actually have a semblance of a speaker system - a multimedia set from Cambridge Soundworks with a pair of Newton m50 bookshelf speakers and some 6" basscube sub, running through this little mini cd player/multimedia center thing. So I have an idea what it's like dealing with a subwoofer in a dorm situation (so far no real complaints, and i've had it since i got to school 3 years ago). I was just figuring that whatever sub I upgraded too would be significantly more powerful, and might cause problems with my neighbors and whatnot.

I started my audio search looking for a subwoofer originally, but now I'm sort of looking to get the best bang for my buck in speakers and/or subs. ie. I'm trying to not blow all my money on one component that would leave my system in an inadequate situation until I had enough extra cash to buy whatever was missing.

So that's my life story... I hope it gives you guys somewhat of a better idea of where i'm coming from and what i'm looking for.

thanks

Silver Member

Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO
USA

Post Number: 953
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 03:54 am:

OK--so you have a whole system now and you are thinking of upgrading the system as your budget allows. Right now you have about $500 you are thinking about spending--is that about right?

Silver Member

Username: Hawk

Highlands Ranch, CO
USA

Post Number: 954
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 04:15 am:

Mark:

Do you currently have the hk receiver, or is that a planned purchase? If a planned purchase, what are you using now for the Cambridge setup?

Timn8ter

Gold Member

Username: Timn8ter

Seattle, WA
USA

Post Number: 1071
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 08:45 am:

"Tim, you probably wouldn't recommend stuffing a sock into Emma's back hole would you?"

In a smaller room that could be beneficial.
I can't recommend it until I've done it and measured the effect, however, there's certainly nothing wrong with experimenting, as long as they're clean.

New member

Username: Mperloff

Post Number: 7
Registered: Aug-06

Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:52 pm:

I haven't bought the HK yet. Right now, i'm using this little receiver/cd player thing that came with my Cambridge Soundworks set. It's a little box that has a cd player, a tuner, inputs for connecting to a computer, and a headphone jack. I think Cambridge Soundworks might not sell it anymore - I can't find it listed on their website.

"OK--so you have a whole system now and you are thinking of upgrading the system as your budget allows. Right now you have about $500 you are thinking about spending--is that about right?"
- that's basically the deal. I just figured that all of my componenets could use an upgrade, so it might make sense starting from scratch to put together this new system.
Sorry if i'm being unclear.

Silver Member

Username: Stefanom

Silver Spring, MD
United States

Post Number: 142
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 02:21 pm:

To help stretch your dollar, I would suggest hanging on to the CSW M50's for now, as they are a decent loudspeaker (on par with the Athena line in terms of quality), unless you dislike their sound. Combined with a high quality amplifier like the HK you're looking at and a quality subwoofer.

New member

Username: Mperloff

Post Number: 8
Registered: Aug-06

Posted on Friday, September 01, 2006 - 03:12 am:

Hmm. I don't particularly dislike the sound of the m50's. I'm sure I'd be happier with them with a nice receiver, too. Stephen, your idea seems to make the most sense - definitely cost and space-wise. I know i have plenty of room for those speakers and a sub.
Do you think the STF-1 would be a good idea? or should i think about a STF-2. Or, I guess, any other quality sub in my price range, that fits my living conditions.
I guess this is more of a question for the subwoofer forum...

Silver Member

Username: Stefanom

Silver Spring, MD
United States

Post Number: 143
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Friday, September 01, 2006 - 11:44 am:

The STF 1 would be a pretty solid bet for your current situation; you could get the STF 2, but I think its talents would largely be wasted in the dorms. Outlaw also offers a subwoofer worth looking at, which is similar to the STF 1, except with a bit more power behind it; either way, I think the upgrade from the Basscube 6 (which is a passive sub if I'm not mistaken), would be huge. The jump in power would also give the M50's a lot more room to do what they do.

New member

Username: Mperloff

Post Number: 10
Registered: Aug-06

Posted on Friday, September 01, 2006 - 02:53 pm:

Thanks for the advice Stephen. I posted this question in the subwoofer forum, but I figured let's keep this thread going - do you, or anyone else, have an opinion between the outlaw lfm-2 and the hsu stf-1? they both seem like good choices.

Edster922

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 4512
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Friday, September 01, 2006 - 03:10 pm:

I would expect almost identical performance, though some people might claim that the LFM-2 might have a slight edge by virtue of it being a newer Dr. Hsu design than the STF-1.

The deciding factor for me would be price---the STF-1 can usually be had for about $250 shipped as b-stock (you have to call Hsu directly to get availability) whereas the LFM-2 might not be...I'd call and check both places.

Also, if this matters to you, I think the LFM-2 and LFM-1 might be more attractive with their glossy black tops than the Hsu subs which are more utilitarian looking.