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Thread: My amp went up in smoke!!! |
    
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 168
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 05:54 am: |
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While sleeping peacefully this morning I heard a loud buzzing sound, and it was not my alarm. My amp (nad c272) had smoke coming out of the top of it; alarmed by the sight of this I quickly turned the unit off. When the smoke cleared and I disconnected everything I peered through the top thinking something would be melted. I found that one of the big caps literally blew up from the top like a volcano. I have left the unit powered up for the last five weeks (used to keep it in standby) could this have been the cause of it? I only had if off for a short period of time to switch out the power cord. The unit was purchased new and is only a year and half old so thankfully it is still under warranty. Any feedback from you folks would be appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 1447
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 11:02 am: |
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Leaving it on should not cause the amp to malfunction. The capacitor was probably faulty to start with, which is backed up by the catastrophic nature of the failure. If anything, leaving it on simply made it fail before going out of warranty. If it had blown afterwards, you'd have been really annoyed.
Regards,
Frank. |
Silver Member Username: Hannjeff
Halifax,
Nova Scotia
Canada
Post Number: 121
Registered: Jun-06
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| Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 01:11 pm: |
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Just curious, why was it on for that long? |
Silver Member Username: Hannjeff
Halifax,
Nova Scotia
Canada
Post Number: 122
Registered: Jun-06
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| Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 01:20 pm: |
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Just curious, why was it on for that long? |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 3340
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 03:58 pm: |
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This is a cc of a post from about 6 weeks ago. Why? |
Silver Member Username: Hannjeff
Halifax,
Nova Scotia
Canada
Post Number: 125
Registered: Jun-06
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| Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 07:58 am: |
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I didnt read the date. |
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 170
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 06:27 pm: |
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By on I meant powered up, not running. I was under the impression that leaving it powered up would keep it "warmed up" and lead to optimal performance from the start, I usually just left it in stand-by. I took it into the authorized service center here in Chicago and was told ten days later they were waiting for the parts and would call me when they came in, I have yet to hear from them. |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 1516
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
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unbridled
Yep that's right. Leaving it on should just keep it ticking over nicely. What's happened here is a faulty part has given up the ghost. Leaving the kit on all the time also exposes faulty components much earlier (since they draw more current as they break down) and so usually within warranty!
Regards,
Frank. |
New member Username: Ftalife
Post Number: 3
Registered: Jul-06
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| Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 03:56 am: |
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wow that's crazy |
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Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 171
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 12:19 am: |
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Well, after 5 weeks I picked up the amp and it indeed was a faulty capacitor. Often the amp would give off a hum/buzz and the tech told me that most of the time this indicates a bad capacitor. I am happy, and the experience has not dampened my fondness for NAD. Having a part fail is nothing new and anyway I have my amp back :o). |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 3722
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 06:19 am: |
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5 weeks seems a little long to wait, but fixed is fixed I suppose.
Now back to enjoyment, UI? |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 1554
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 10:07 am: |
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The added benefit is that a human has actually checked over your amp visually, so there should be even less chance of anything going wrong, unless you're Mr. Unlucky living at Unlucky House, Unlucky Rd. Unluckyville...
Does the amp sound better than it did before it decided to spark up?
Regards,
Frank. |
Bronze Member Username: Divin11112000
Michigan
Post Number: 94
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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So would the reccomendation based on these events be to always leave the amp in the "on" position as opposed to standby? Provided your not on vacation or not using it for a week or so?
Just curios as I am considering purchasing an amp in the next year or so.
thanks |
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 172
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 07:47 pm: |
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Frank, I don't notice any change in the amps sound, just sounds warm and smooth. The tech recommended leaving the amp on stand-by when not in use, so this is what I shall do. Not a big deal but the cap (which is a nad cap) is black with white lettering where as the original are the opposite. I was somewhat consfused at first but then I decided to put things in perspective. |
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 173
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 07:56 pm: |
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Nuck I agree 5 weeks was too long to wait. The service center which was recommended by Michael Kostiw at NAD said they didn't have the part in stock and had to order it from NAD. What was irritating is that they could not give me an ETA on the part, why I don't know. Fixed is fixed so I am happy, and as Frank noted the unit was given a thorough checkup and has been given a clean bill of health. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 3736
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 09:25 pm: |
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No doubt, it has had human hands on it now, and should be all the better for the massage.
Sometimes the tech touch is the best cure-all forever.
I am presently waiting on my amp to come back, the tech is treating it with felt covered gloves, knowing how I use it.
Good to hear UI, you will be good for years to come!
Enjoy the music! |
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 177
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 09:07 pm: |
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Ok so here is an update of sorts. Spool forward to early this month and I hear the same buzzing again and associate it with something awful. Now with only two months left on my warranty I am feeling a bit ill about things, so I call NAD and was told by Mr. Kostow to take the unit back and if another cap was found to be defective to have all the caps replaced. I called the service center and told them what was what and they told me to bring it in and they would simply replace all the caps. I am not excited about things, I don't know what it is that is wrong... I love the unit but I don't want it to start smoking past November 11 or I am in for a repair bill. I am wondering if it could be something on my end, but there cannot be a ground loop and anyway it is a buzz from the unit not my speakers... I have it plugged into one of if not the best surge protection available, it also filter emi/rfi. I asked the tech if he didn't hear the buzz if he could isolate a problem anyway and was told it would be difficult if not impossible to do so... It's a long drive into the city to drop it off and of course since I hated the prospect of driving out there I ran a red light and got the ticket I deserved. I can only hope that after this it shall be fixed once and for all. By the way I really do like NAD and would buy from them again, my c541i and c422 have performed without a problem. The cdp is three years old and if anything would act up I would have though it to be the cdp, but not in this case. Did I mention it has been two weeks now without quality fidelity in my home, it really sucks to be honest.
Well folks, just wanted to update my situation. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 4236
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 04:56 pm: |
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That just ain't right. |
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 178
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 05:47 pm: |
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Thanks Nuck, after reading my post I sound like I am whining a bit, which is not a good thing. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 4240
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 05:52 pm: |
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well, no, you are right. The thing coughing up a furball is not right.
Send it back! |
Gold Member Username: Frank_abela
Berkshire
UK
Post Number: 1680
Registered: Sep-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
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Oh I hate it when this happens - and in my experience it happens on expensive kit as well as less expensive kit. You say the buzz comes from the unit only, not the speakers, but you've already checked out the earth loop scenario and you have a filter on it (which I wouldn't recommend musically but which should clear the crap off the mains).
I can't blame the repair people for saying they couldn't tell you what's wrong if they can't repro the problem. I guess it boils down to whether they find a problem or not. If they do and they fix it, it should be fine, but there's a bit of an argument for getting the unit replaced. I think you've shown great restraint.
Regards,
Frank. |
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 180
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 08:23 pm: |
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Well, I picked up the amp today. Actually, it was done a week ago but I wanted to go on a day off and avoid the traffic. The main caps now are all new (one was replaced the first time) and I gave it a test run and all seems ok. Thank heavens I have my amp back! |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 4323
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 08:38 pm: |
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Geez, id, you did survive!
You will be good from here on in, no doubt.
Happy listening.
Check out John Mellencamps 'Uh huh', I spun it again today...oooh mama! |
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 181
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 10:14 am: |
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Sounds similiar to my situation ;).
Ventilation Notice
Important Advice for C270/C272/C370/C372 Owners
We have seen a small number of filter capacitor failures in C370/C270 and C372/C272 that we would like to bring to your attention. While the actual number of affected units is extremely small (about a dozen units over the last 5 years), the failure is quite spectacular. The problem is that one of the main filter capacitors overheats and blows open. There is a flash and smoke and in some cases the top cover paint melts. This can be alarming as there is an electrical burning smell. In all cases to date, the safety measures built into NAD products have contained the damage to the unit itself. Owners of the above models should contact their local authorized dealer to ascertain whether any service modifications are required.
We have done a lot of research into this problem and have implemented some additional safety measures in order to reduce the number of failures to zero. This failure tends to occur when the mains voltage is high (+10 % of normal mains levels) which is typical in just some parts of the world. However, the main finding of our research is that failure is caused through poor ventilation. It is very important to ensure clear airflow around the unit and that it not be installed in close proximity to a shelf or has anything standing on top that impedes heat dissipation through the vents in the top cover. This includes avoiding having another unit standing on top and if so this must be avoided from now on.
We would like to state that this unit is the top of the range and is a very powerful amplifier. All amplifiers generate heat and the more powerful they are the more heat that needs to be dissipated. We would also suggest that consumers should switch the amplifier off on the front panel when not in use. It allows the unit to totally cool down and additionally it saves on electricity usage.
All units contain installation and operating warnings so we would recommend that consumers read the complete instruction manual from cover to cover.
One additional note: this failure is typically not covered by warranty as these units fail due to incorrect installation and the cost to repair any units that fail will exceed the cost of a new one. However, as a sign of goodwill NAD will replace any customer unit that suffers this failure with a brand new unit, free of charge. Again we cannot stress enough the need for free air flow around the unit.
I have about 1 1/4 inches on top and open space on all sides, the unit never ran hot to the touch.
I wonder if I should have received a new unit? |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 4568
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 06:15 am: |
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UI, that is quite a minority you are in there.
The note says that the cost of repair is above a replacement. I don't know what ancillary parts were damaged as well, but that seems a bit catastrophic. The note says that the unit's 'safety devices' stopped the conflagration, perhaps a little Halon dispenser?
A new unit is always what we all want, but think about it a bit. Your Nad has now been in the hands of a competent factory technician. A known failure was rectified, all parts will have been tested for compliance, and the replacement parts were likely tested as well, to ensure a minimal chance of recurrence.
I am liking the repaired unit, myself!
Although there is no humour in your misfortune at all, 'the failure is quite spectacular' made me smirk, I must confess.
You are good to go, keep it well ventilated! |
Silver Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 927
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
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My 272 has been well used for around a year now and , knock on wood, has been behaving nicely. We keep our components well ventillated on an open rack. I suppose I should contact the NAD service people here to see if there is a service notice to be on the safe side. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 4584
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 02:41 pm: |
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Rantz, I doubt that you have anything to worry about.
As stated, this is a one in a bug bundle odds, you will be fine, especially with the big air space you allow.
It reads like supplier problems and incoming QC issues which could not be forseen by Nad.
I think you can sleep well.
Of course, a Halon spray can be had for a good price, hehehe |
New member Username: Ej20t
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 06:04 am: |
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I own 3 c272… 2 have now gone up in smoke!
I'm trying too replace the second unit now as it is out of warranty. I also keep the amp's on as I do with all amp's I own. Both have blown up while not in use. It’s not a ventilation problem as they have a safety cut out circuit built in for overheating.
I love the sound of theses amps although I’m sick off seeing my house filled with smoke.
The first amp actually melted all the speaker terminals it was that bad.
Cheers Tony. |
New member Username: Kissol
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 07:31 am: |
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New member Username: Roguey
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 08:25 am: |
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My C272 blew up yesterday with a small amount of smoke as well. At the time I was playing a game on my pc, and then the C272 just blew up – I thought the pc had blown up (that’s happened before). When it blew the C272 was on low volume, nothing had moved, no cables where moved or anything - just went. It was nothing to do with ventilation either as it had around 2 inches around it and never got hot (even when it was on loud). My Denon 3805 puts out way more heat and its older and still works. |
New member Username: Ej20t
Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 09:25 am: |
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I think many of theses amps have gone up in smoke. Just the warning notice on the international www page tells me its alot more than a dozen. I live in Australia (240v) anyone had a (110v) go on them? |
New member Username: Roguey
Post Number: 2
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 10:05 am: |
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What I was thinking with the notice on the international page. If the problem was in such few cases then making a news post would panic more people than good. Im begining to think its either a design fault or some 'bad' components were used at a certain build time. |
New member Username: Donjoh
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jan-07
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| Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 12:15 am: |
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Question: I've heard that the newer 272s have different/upgraded caps. Anybody know if this is true?
2nd question: Anyone know if the standby mode on the amp keeps any juice to the amp section, or just to the "control" circuitry? I'm used to keeping the power on my amps all the time, and I'm wondering what other's experience have had?(other than the cap-boom-thing). |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1048
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - 02:35 am: |
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Don, keeping your amp on is a Miami vice - no?
Seriously, I have the 272 and keep it on standby which I believe is just for the control circuitry. I find it doesn't take long to warm the music. My distributor said I could take mine to a service guy to see if it was a model prone to blowing. Haven't done so yet, but it has plenty of ventillation. |
New member Username: Ej20t
Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 08:51 am: |
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my second amp is being fixed as i type. The tech that i saw said that NAD should have issued a recall on these models as it was a cheap 5 minute fix. Instead they are just repairing the ones they get back. He also mentioned that it was nothing to do with ventilation, more to do with mains voltage fluctuation.
cheers T. |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1054
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:09 am: |
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Tony,
Thanks for the info. I guess I'll give my local service guy a call and get my amp checked. You've made me nervous. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 5318
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:32 am: |
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Mr. Hifi says just replace it, MR! |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1055
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:45 am: |
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Nuck, we'll send him a Toot Tone for all his hot air! (thanx for that one lol!)
My distributor thinks my 272 should be okay, but I'll get it checked anyway, but it's been used everyday for over a year now and so far so good. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 5321
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 10:50 am: |
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It'll be fine, MR. Maybe time for a cleaning anyhow?
Check old dogs and keep practising.
Nuck. |
Silver Member Username: Unbridled_id
Chicago
Usa
Post Number: 182
Registered: Mar-04
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| Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 04:04 am: |
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Hey everyone, did anyone else notice that perhaps in regards to this issue the price on the c272 and c372 has in the U.S gone up $100? They replaced all the large caps on mine, I know ventilation was not an issue as I explained my setup to their main tech and he said that would not do it (i also never push the amp). Seems as if it is just a glitch, I did not get a new amp and if it did blow again even though the warranty is expired I would make a case towards getting an new amp as I had mine in to the shop twice. First for the blown cap and second because I heard a buzzing and became paranoid as I heard the buzzing before the first blowup. NAD recommends not leaving the amp powered up full time but leaving it in standby full time (which I do) is ok. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 5437
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:08 am: |
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UI, you might have a hard sell to have the amp replaced/repaired out of warranty, regardless of the history.
It would speak volumes for Nad if they did.
However, if you have the unit serviced on a regular basis, the company might look upon your claims a little more closely. |
New member Username: Roguey
Post Number: 3
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 09:26 pm: |
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My c272 as been back for awhile now and working like normal. I know it is the same amp and I do not know what they did to it. Its looking like they cheap-out on something - sounding like the caps (with what people here are saying). Never thought ill would ever have any problems with a NAD!
I don't have long on the warranty now - hopefully they fixed it for good. When it was down and out I really missed its sound, my Denon 3805 was not half as good in music.
If it blows again ill be very disappointed with NAD, and would be sending them a big complaint message - ill doubt NAD would do anything about it. Any repairs soon would cost me money, as before the amp blew in the warranty.
Again the amp had ventilation and never really pushed. |
Silver Member Username: Eramsey
South carolina
United States
Post Number: 506
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 11:26 pm: |
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There is no reason to leave a solid state amp powered on 24/7. Although at idle most receivers and many amplifiers would consume about as much power as an average 100W light bulb and would add very little extra cost on your power bill, there is no electronic benefit by doing such,if anything more heat is being produced, and although little, is still a waste of electrical energy. Both discrete and integrated circuits within an amplifiers architecture stabilize and reach maximum efficiency within a few seconds of being powered on and some electronic devices within milliseconds. The exception to this would be a tube amp which has a requisite "warm up" period to reach maximum efficiency which is usually 30min-1hr. But then again tubes aren't SS devices. The only other exception I see is a PC which does seem to run better if left on all of the time. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 5524
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, January 22, 2007 - 10:36 am: |
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But Eric, the amp's class of construction is a factor.
Mine are 'A', some others are 'AB' and the full field of the 'A' operation is only for the first few watts.
Granted that each manufacturer does it differently, but an 'AB' amp is different than an 'A' build.
I agree with your assessment of ss/tubes.
My (admittedly cheap) tube amp needs a warm-up, but the big Classe benefits from balanced temperatures as well.
The caps need to charge, and your assertion towards 'instant power' might come from the ability of the caps. However, the output devices and the abilities of a Torroid are based, spec'd and rated at operating temperatures.
I never run my amps without at least 1 hour of power on.
The Classe is happily at a zillion degrees by then.
Your pc is best left on all the time because Microsoft cannot manage a power-up without having convulsions.
Mine does anyhow.
Good post, Eric. Where are you in SC? |
Bronze Member Username: Jingka99
Kuala Lumpur,
Kuala Lumpur
Malaysia
Post Number: 70
Registered: Aug-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 02:00 am: |
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So people, which is better: to leave it on standby or totally power it off?
I remember to have read an article on this, authored by James Milner, and I quote:
"For anyone with a decent hifi I really would advise leaving your entire system powered up 24/7. It won't cost a lot (OK, electricity is not free but we're not talking 3 kilowatt fan heater here!) and it isn't a fire risk. It's better for the equipment too as constant powering up and powering down causes much more stress to components than allowing them to exist at a constant temperature. Your ears will thank you." |
Gold Member Username: Hawk
Highlands Ranch,
CO
USA
Post Number: 1131
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 05:35 pm: |
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arnold:
Given the fact that the NAD Service Advisory specifically mentions that they have traced much of the problem to inadequate ventilation, it would appear that powering the unit off would be the better way to go. |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1092
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 06:44 pm: |
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I always leave my gear on standby, there's too many variables to know for sure what is best - always on or off - but components don't take long to warm up and anything that reduces risks in the home is preferable for me. |
New member Username: Leonski
Post Number: 10
Registered: Jan-07
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| Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 11:18 pm: |
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You guys are scaring me. I have left my Ancient Carver Cube on for YEARS at a time, purchasing it new.....can't remember when! (I've got CRS).
It is just now about to crap out, having a slight noise in the right channel. I guess I won't be replacing it with a NAD product, even though my NAD tuner/preamp (also ancient) has a 100% uptime record. Maybe that GFA555 mkII is in my future!
can't afford a new amp!
I should have been born rich, instead of just good looking.............. |
New member Username: Donjoh
Post Number: 2
Registered: Jan-07
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| Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 11:41 pm: |
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I've had high-end equipment for years (dual ML No. 27 amps with AR SP 14 pre.) and have always left them on 24/7/365. Any electronics sound best if warm and stable. Anyway, I've downsized my system to the NAD duo, and I've noticed that the NAD amp sounds much more relaxed after being on for at least 1/2 hour playing music. The duo is very musical and detailed with lots of low end control, too. I like them a lot.
Relative to the cap issue, I think that the real issue is the power surges, not ventilation. Poor ventilation may make things worse, but isn't the root cause. Regardless, this issue is very distressing from a safety point of view and I, personally, will use the stand by mode and have to be a little patient with the sound as the amp warms up. |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1095
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Friday, February 02, 2007 - 01:16 am: |
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I agree with Don about the 1/2 hour. I don't think it's a widespread issue. Our distributor here didn't think it was but said I could take to a service guy and have it looked at if it helped me sleep at night. I intend to do so before the warranty expires. Anyway the product for the price is simply excellent and I'm not overly concerned.
Oh, and if you're still talking, say hi to Melani |
