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Thread: X-over |
    
Bronze Member Username: Blazer
Post Number: 97
Registered: Feb-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 09:13 am: |
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I've noticed a lot of surround speakers have a much higher low end response meaning they should be crossed over at a higher point than the front speakers (Paradigm dipoles only go down to 90 but the bookshelves and centers go down to 60 or so). Unless you are using a receiver/pre such as Outlaw or HK that allow different x-overs for different sets of speakers, are we not stuck with crossing over at about 100 in my example thus negating some of what the bookshelves can give us not to mention making our sub more directional? Why don't more manufacturers offer independent crossovers? Most people I know don't have the same size speakers in the rear. |
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Silver Member Username: Chitown
Post Number: 982
Registered: Apr-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 12:57 pm: |
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It's more hardware as well as software programming that can drive up the features and costs. That's why they put them in their higher end models.
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 8410
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 03:05 pm: |
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I think it would be a mistake to look at specifications and draw any conclusions from what you see on paper. The roll off of a speaker will be determined by the enclosure type and the frequency response will be altered by room gain. The crossover from a ported speaker which is spec'd to 90Hz will be different than a sealed enclosure with the same specified limit. A dipole placed close to a wall will have a bit of room gain which pushes the low frequency limit down beyond the spec. If the spec was honest in the first palce.
Even with discrete information assigned to all channels, you have to consider what is present in the rear channels and how much you pay attention to the slight variations from front to rear. Yes, more control would be nice, but real standards would be better. With few exceptions, every manufacturer takes a one-upsmanship approach to features rather than selling a useful product. You can obviously buy a THX certified system and assure yourself of sufficient component matching. But at the low end of the price range, you take what you can afford and dream of better. It's called consumerism.
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Bronze Member Username: Alphabet
Cape Town
South Africa
Post Number: 79
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 02:28 am: |
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Excellent take on the subject, Jan! I totally agree that we can do with less Marketing and a bit more honesty concerning specifications, although not all manufacturers are equally guilty |
Bronze Member Username: Blazer
Post Number: 98
Registered: Feb-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
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So in conclusion, if you are running bookshelves up front that sound good down to 60 and surrounds that sound good down to 100, you have no choice but to set your receiver's crossover at 110 or 120? I just like the idea of independent x-overs so we can take advantage of a speaker's full range. Thanks! |
Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 8421
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 01:19 pm: |
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No, you have a choice. Either buy a receiver that has the independent crossover settings or buy speakers that match the receiver you own. This is called system matching in the most basic sense. If you bought speakers which do not match what your receiver can achieve, or vice versa; who's fault is that?
There's a lot of gobbledy-gook in the marketing of audio equipment and the manufacturer's spend far to much time thinking up useless crap to add to their products. But, if you know the speakers you own won't match the receiver you want or can afford, then you have the responsibility, if you want the best results, to buy pieces that match and work well together. Blazer, I understand your point, but you are laying blame for the wrong problem and not seeing the foilage for the wooded property.
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigne
Dallas,
TX
Post Number: 8422
Registered: May-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 02:44 pm: |
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I would suggest you select a crossover point that sounds good with your front main speakers and possibly the center speaker. Even with five discrete channels, these three speakers bear the brunt of the effort. 100 or 120Hz will probably be too high for the crossover on the front channels. If you aren't running any pseudo surround formats, I would expect the two channel material you play will sound much better with the setting matched to the speakers that are playing. Most derived surround formats limit the rear channel frequency response anyway and room gain would probably push the low frequency limit downward sufficiently to use the lower crossover. Trying to match for the rear speakers you own probably ignores what might be a significant amount of listening time to what is essentially two channel material. Only if you truly feel you can hear the discontinuity of the rears to the crossover frequency would I suggest any changes to accomodate the rears. In that case, I would suggest a second subwoofer for the rears rather than changing the front crossover point. Or, as I said above, buying other rear speakers that better match your receiver's capabilities.
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Bronze Member Username: Blazer
Post Number: 99
Registered: Feb-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 04:01 pm: |
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Thanks Jan, that makes sense. So you are saying don't worry about how low or how high the rear speakers can play, just set your cross over to best match the front LRC speakers. I'll try that. |
