HSU STF 2 or Rocket ULW10

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 21
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 08:36 am:

I am looking to pick up one of these subs. Does the ULW10 fall in between the STF2 and the STF1?
Or is is closer to the STF2 in performance?
Thanks for any help

Gold Member

Username: Gavincumm

New York
USA

Post Number: 1088
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 09:59 pm:

the ULW10 is far beyond the HSU in terms of musical performance from what I have read if it is the one that has the calibration mike.

Silver Member

Username: Rysa4

Post Number: 467
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:43 pm:

Actually the UFW10 is the winner. The ULW10 is a good value sub too. The UFW has a technical advantage in adjustability as well as an amp twice the size of the ULW

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 22
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 06:49 am:

Is it safe to say that the ulw/ufw are better suited for music, but the STF2 can go deeper

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 3952
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 07:44 am:

deeper and most likely louder.

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 23
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 07:05 pm:

How much deeper, are we talking a few hz?

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 3957
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 07:30 pm:

Google up the specs, probably 5-10Hz difference.

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 24
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 08:50 pm:

I was looking for a Mirage S12, but I cant wait anymore and I have major space limitations
The UFW10 looks good, I just dont want to miss too much on the low end

Gold Member

Username: Gavincumm

New York
USA

Post Number: 1095
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:51 pm:

you are correct... the ULW is the model that I was thinking of.

Gold Member

Username: Gavincumm

New York
USA

Post Number: 1096
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:53 pm:

sorry... that was a typo...

the ULW10 was the model that I was thinking of all along. It is much tighter than the HSU research.

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 25
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 08:26 am:

Someone on another forum had sent me a PM saying the ULW is better for music, but the STF is about 90% of the way there, and the STF is much better for home theater.
Since I will be about 60-70% music to 30-40% movies, I am at a loss for which sub to go with

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 3962
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 07:58 pm:

That would depend on 2 things:

1. the % of action flicks you watch in that 30-40% movie usage

2. the size of your room and your placement options...in a smaller room and/or a room where you can place the subwoofer directly behind or next to your sitting position, the ULW's comparatively low output will not be as big a disadvantage.

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 26
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 08:18 am:

I know that the STF2 has output down to 20hz, does anyone know how low the ulw10 goes with useable output?

Art Kyle

Gold Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 3245
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 09:06 am:

If music is important to you, skip the Hsu and move on to a sub that produces for music and HT. I owned a Hsu and it was very good for HT but would not have suitable for music, at least not acoustic music. The ports are just too noisy.

Gold Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2476
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:43 pm:

Are you listening to techno?
How low, below 30 is really only for thumping, or pipe organs.
Does the rest of your kit reflect ultra-low bass? Does your music?

Is the rest of your gear ready for that much bass?

Pat, will you be badly imbalanced with bass?

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 27
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 09:28 pm:

I dont have a great set-up by any means, but that is getting upgraded as well.
I dont listen to any ultra-low bass for music but do watch many movies. I was hoping for something that could do well for both applications

Gold Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2492
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:19 pm:

Pat, if you are looking for music/movies with the sub, you really should look at a more musical sub to start.
These tend to be sealed subs, and, yes, they can play stuff blowing up.

Movie subs are a dime a dozen, literally.

Don't go for cheap rumble subs for movies, instead look for good musical subs that can carry a movie as well.
SVS aint one of these(hint)

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 28
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 07:23 am:

Thanks for the advice. I have heard plenty of ported subs, and I havent heard a sealed sub in years. I am looking forward to it.

Gold Member

Username: Gavincumm

New York
USA

Post Number: 1118
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 09:53 am:

the ULW10 is an amazing sub. Really tight, musical, and can pack quite a punch when called for. Don't call it off just because there are a few that like there bass as loud as a concert PA (SVS) and don't care for this sub.

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 29
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 12:00 pm:

That pretty much seems to be what people are telling me haha.
One person told me it may be a decent starter sub, but when I am ready to grow up, check out SVS.
I have never heard an SVS sub, I would love to at some point. Doesnt seem there is much love for the ulw10, but that is the direction I am heading. There really seems to be a sealed vs ported rivalry

Art Kyle

Gold Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 3251
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 12:30 pm:

SVS sucks and I think that is what Gavin was implying. I owned an SVS before the Hsu. Bloated wind box, not good at all for music.

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 3973
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 01:26 pm:

supposedly the cylindrical SVS subs are much better for music, but they're probably out of your budget if you're looking at the STF-1 and STF-2.

Ask around the SVS forum, you might be able to find a local owner who'll let you come listen.

You might also be able to find used M&K subs at audiogon.com which are excellent for music but won't give you much oomph for HT.

The Hsu seems to be a good compromise between the two.

Gold Member

Username: Gavincumm

New York
USA

Post Number: 1120
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 05:28 pm:

I have heard some concert PAs that have had great bass (diana krall) but most of them suck, and that is what I was implying. SVS BLOW for music. Sure they are loud, but accurate they are NOT! I think they are perfect for those immature kids that think they have to thump their bass in their cars with their $hitty banbpass subs to "impress" people

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 30
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 09:44 pm:

Anyone know how much better the ufw10 is compared with the ulw10?

erich schmitke

New member

Username: Biz_dance

Post Number: 7
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 02:30 am:

I'm looking for a sub for my 11'x17' room. The sub will be placed beside the couch in the corner. I was looking at the Hsu STF-2 but now after reading this I'm not so sure. Honestly it will be mostly for home theater but I hate subs that play music loose. It's a huge peeve for me. Looks like I'll order the ULW10 then.

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 4019
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 09:49 am:

The STF-2 doesn't have "loose" bass just not super fast transient response like you'd get from a much more expensive sealed design. Among the ported subs Hsu is quite respected for their music performance, more so than SVS for example.

I doubt the ULW10 would be a big improvement, the UFW10 perhaps. But with either of those models, you will be sacrificing volume and depth in exchange for speed. I'd imagine this is less of a trade-off in the $1000 and up sealed subs from high end companies like REL.

Gold Member

Username: Gavincumm

New York
USA

Post Number: 1152
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 01:54 pm:

exactly eddie!

IMHO the ULW10 has better transient response, but either of these subs would be a good buy depending on what you are going to use it for.

When you pull out the big dogs like REL, Thiel SS, MartinLogan, etc. etc. etc. THEN you can have your cake and eat it too with transient AND loud bass.

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 4024
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 12:37 am:

heh, the day I spend upwards of $1000 for a sub is the day after I go rob a bank!

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 31
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 07:37 pm:

Thanks for the advice guys.
I have a ULW10 expected next Friday.

erich schmitke

New member

Username: Biz_dance

Post Number: 8
Registered: Apr-06

Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 12:41 am:

Please update to let us know how you like it. Also what size is your room?

Silver Member

Username: Rysa4

Post Number: 473
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 12:54 am:

Yikes. Late on the scene. The UFW10 is the sub of choice. One of the sub gurus who posts as Bossobass on avsforum in the sub section describes as the best sub pound for pound anywhere. Anyway, I've demoed the UFW10 and the HSU stf 2 and the UFW10 is way out ahead. The ULW10 AMP is smaller and there are some technical adjustment limitations that make it a poor choice if you use two subs ( I do). The UFW 10 is flat to 25 HZ in a 32oo square foot or less room. If the ULW10 doesnt work then go for the UFW10. Its the best product that av123.com has IMHO relative to other offerings in comparison.

BTW- SVS cylinder subs are unacceptable for music; its not even close. Just awful.

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 36
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 11:13 am:

I got such a good deal on the ULW10, that I had to go with it. I will set it up and let you know. The room is small, about 1800 sq. feet

Art Kyle

Gold Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 3288
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 11:43 am:

Congrats Patrick...BTW I hope you mean 1800 cu ft as my whole home is only 1100 sq ft. An 1800 sq ft room is rather large. Enjoy!

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 37
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 11:50 am:

hahaha I meant cubic ft
thanks and I will update asap

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 40
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 07:25 pm:

Well my ULW10 arrived today.
Set up the SOS, hooked it up and......
Well not much. I must be use to boomy bass because it sounds as though its not even on...at all.

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 4066
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 12:33 am:

ahem, this was my experience with the UFW-10...

If you act quickly, you might still be able to snag a Mirage S12 from vanns.com for $400 shipped before they sell out again for several months.

Go to avsforum.com and do a search for the S12 mega-thread.

Silver Member

Username: Rysa4

Post Number: 480
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 11:47 am:

Eddie- You need to come by my place sometime and listen to the subs when set up properly in a smaller room!

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 4079
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 12:50 pm:

heh, I knew you'd pop up sooner or later on this thread! But yes, I do need to finally get over to your place soon...

Bronze Member

Username: Patrickbateman

MA

Post Number: 41
Registered: Oct-05

Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 07:17 pm:

Edster,
How is your take on the Mirage S12
I am still not having much luck with the ULW10
Though I am still waiting to hear back from AV123

Gold Member

Username: Gavincumm

New York
USA

Post Number: 1164
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 07:50 pm:

a properly intergrated subwoofer does not call attention to itself. You know when your sub is working properly if you aren't even aware of its contributions, but it is obvious that the bass is deeper.

Notice I said DEEPER... NOT LOUDER!!!

The sub should only be as loud as your mains.

at least that is the case if you set it up using a well recorded CD. Those mass produced R&B CD's can be fun to listen to with the boosted bass response, but it is not what I would use as a reference.

A good reference that I myself use for setting a subwoofer up and making sure it in intergrated correctly is the "Love Scenes" CD by Diana Krall. The bass is an upright, not handheld, and is in proper balance with the rest of the instruments. Not to mention that the CD itself is reference quality.

Silver Member

Username: Rysa4

Post Number: 489
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 09:37 pm:

Yep. Gavin has it right.

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 4081
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 10:48 pm:

Patrick,

I have been very happy with the S12. It provides a happy medium between sufficient SPL for movies and sufficient speed/definition for music. There are spots with certain tunes where I do realize that it does for example blur a double bass note into a single note, but only if I am really listening intently for it.

The main thing is that it does not call attention to itself (using Gavin's terminology) with blatant muddiness and distortion/resonance like my old JBL sub did nor does it DISAPPEAR (a favorite audiophile cliche) amid the other speakers due to inadequate muscle.

Of course I should add that my listening space is on the second floor, open on both sides (approximately 6000 cubic feet), with a 18 foot cathedral ceiling and the sub itself is nowhere near a corner but actually almost smack dab in the middle of the space with just a little bit of an interior wall behind it. Plus once in a while I also like a bit more bass kick in my music than most people.

So adequate SPL is *very* important to me, and the Mirage delivers at a price and with trade-offs that I find completely acceptable. If I had the money, WAF and space to get a pair of UFW-12s no doubt that would be a better setup all around.

Google up reviews for the S12...there is one where it is ABed against a Hsu VTF-3 and holds its own up until 90db if I remember correctly, after which the VTF-3 does go louder. Not as much an issue for me since my wife starts to kvetch right around 75db, sigh.

Gold Member

Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec
Canada

Post Number: 1519
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 12:19 am:

Depends on the cutoff frequency to/from the mains, I guess. I wonder how much I hear from the sub cut at 40 Hz on "Love Scenes" (on of my very favorites CDs, BTW).

Gold Member

Username: Gavincumm

New York
USA

Post Number: 1168
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 06:54 pm:

if your sub is set up properly, hardly anything aside from harmonics and the lower register of the grand.

Gold Member

Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec
Canada

Post Number: 1533
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 08:38 pm:

Probably right. It would be easy enough to check since I have banana plugs for the mains.

Gold Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2789
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 11:23 pm:

So how is it that my 2 Technics subs run from a Technics AVR are seamless when directed towards the same channel fronts?
Did I get it right, after all?

Cheap 10 yr old crap.

Gold Member

Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec
Canada

Post Number: 1538
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 11:33 pm:

when directed towards the same channel fronts?

I'm not sure I follow that.

If you means that are don't stand out, then yes, that's a good thing. Do they also deliver the goods on LFE content?

Gold Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2810
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:05 am:

OK Peter, I'm going to expose myself a bit, as the Bass has just always kind of worked.
Please brief me on LFE, as I don't understand as well as I should.

Thanks.

Gold Member

Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec
Canada

Post Number: 1542
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 12:36 pm:

LFE stands for Low Frequency Effects in movie soundtracks. Does the little girl tapping the aquarium with her finger in "Finding Nemo" shake the house? That kind of thing.

A sub that doesn't extend to very low frequencies (low meaning around 25 Hz) but integrates well with your main speakers might be excellent for most music, yet might be too anemic for movie soundtracks. But you won't miss good LFE performance until you have experienced it (you don't want what you do know about).

But I'm confused. You have twice the number of posts than I do, and have answered multiple posts on the subject. You know all this already, so I have probably misunderstood your question.

Srinivas Annavarapu

Bronze Member

Username: Serniter

Piscataway, New Jersey
USA

Post Number: 21
Registered: Mar-06

Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 01:16 pm:

In any case, I learned some! Thanks Peter :-)

Gold Member

Username: Gavincumm

New York
USA

Post Number: 1173
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 09:42 pm:

peter,

I also forgot to add the impact of the kick drum in that as well.

Srinivas Annavarapu

Bronze Member

Username: Serniter

Piscataway, New Jersey
USA

Post Number: 23
Registered: Mar-06

Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:41 am:

Any comments on the 'Dominator' sub:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?Variant=1&AttribNum=1&pf_id= 8925&sku=DOMD12&selAttribute_1=10%22+Woofer

for music use as compared to the STF-2?

Gold Member

Username: Petergalbraith

Rimouski, Quebec
Canada

Post Number: 1547
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 11:09 am:

The buzz on AVS seems to be good for the new low price. Scroll to the bottom of:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=636565&pp=60

Look for comments from spamtron who upgraded from an STF-2.

Gold Member

Username: Nuck

Post Number: 2834
Registered: Dec-04

Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:55 pm:

Sorry Peter, I know what you mean, just the acronym is something I missed along the lines.
Like I said, the bass has just always been there, I havn't shopped for subs at all and don't watch many movies anymore.
And thanks.