AudioSource AMP100 vs. Sonic Impact Super T-Amp
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 407 Registered: Oct-04 | I'll be the first to admit that the SI Super T-Amp is really neat, but convince me why it's better than a what seems to be nice amp, like the AudioSource AMP100, which can be had for under $100. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/audio-source-amp-100-amplifier-7-2004.html |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7315 Registered: May-04 | This would seem to be such an obvious question that I can't believe you require convincing. The most obvious question I can think to ask is simply; do your speakers require more than the 8-10 watts the Sonic T can muster? The Sonic T is designed for very efficient speakers that have minimal current requirements. That's fine if you're listening at very low levels to chamber music or you own a pair of Klipschorns. On a pair of 86dB speakers with even basic jazz combos getting involved, the choice of the Audio Source would almost seem too simple. Are you just looking for the cheapest route to have sound for this system; or what is your intent? The write up for the Audio Source is hardly what I would call a glowing review. It is serviceable but that is essentially all the Audio Source is meant for. It's been 10 years since I've heard an Audio Source amp, but I suspect they are basically the same sound as always. Listenable but not exciting in any way. The Sonic T, on the other hand, has received some exceptional reviews for its sound quality. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 411 Registered: Oct-04 | I understand the fundamental differences, and that's the point. Why the hype about the T-Amp? Once you jump the price from $30 for the plastic T-Amp to $140 for the Super T-Amp, what are the actual benefits? Have you heard it? It would seem to me that the AudioSource, which is a well reviewed Amp, and can be had for less than $100 (It's actually available for $59 as a factory refurb.) would seem at least as good a choice as the T-Amp when all is said & done, given the same task. In this case it would be for a small office based MP3 system driving a cute little pair of Polk R15s I picked up for $40. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7320 Registered: May-04 | I've not heard the Super T. I just received a T amp and will give a listen before passing any judgement on its abilities. Like many budget items, the Super T looks at the obvious corners that need to be cut to fit a budget piece of equipment into a budget. With a MP3 based system the AudioSource would be a good choice. The problems of the AudioSource are essentially those of omission and it should not be challenged by the blander MP3 format. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7326 Registered: May-04 | I spent too many hours last night listening to the T amp. The reviews suggest it will get much better over the first 50-100 hours. I certainly hope so because the level of performance from this $25 amplifier when I used it cold out of the box is, as the reviews state, stunning. With a pair of $200 KEF speakers the sound was beyond anything I expected. Within its power envelope the basic T amp reminded me in many ways of amplifiers costing 200 times its price. If you are looking towards an office system, do not buy this amplifier or its uprated sibling. You will get no work done while you listen to music. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 413 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan, I've grown to trust your opinion, so the T-Amp it is. Do you consider the Super T-Amps improvements justify the $140 price tag? How do you supose it might pair with a pair of Tims Ling Singles?  |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7336 Registered: May-04 | You can read the reviews of both amps on line. Essentially, the Super T is what the modifiers have been doing to the basic amp over the past year. It has been dressed up in a better looking package and with "audiophile" approved parts but it would appear the amps are, for the most part, identical. As one reviewer put it, you can choose the prepackaged Super T and have the better parts right now or go the DIY route if you have the time, skill and patience and probably save a few dollars. Everything the Super T has would seem to be available on line if you choose the DIY version. Or, you can go to the Red Wine version for $499. http://www.redwineaudio.com/Clari_T_Amp.html One of the "stunning" things about this amp is the way you'll have to reconsider everything you've "learned" about how high end audio works. With the basic amp you must use a fairly cheesy interconnect and anything beyond the most basic speaker wire will break the speaker output clips! Suddenly what is important is the music and not the hifi. This alone makes the basic amp the place to start learning audio again. For an office system I would simply go with the basic amp and listen to what it has to offer. After some experience with the $25 version you should have a better idea what you might want to try next. If you need more inputs a basic pre amp (with a phono pre amp) is available at what is still a ridiculously low price. I detest giving money to China instead of the good ol' US of A, but this is such a paultry sum, it can be viewed as tossing the homeless guy a quarter. Do remember this is a sub 10 watt amplifier at best. The R15's will get you background levels and slightly louder but this is not the system you'll use when you need that Mahler fix. The power supply you choose will be an investment in better sound and slightly (?) higher headroom. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 414 Registered: Oct-04 | Hadn't considered the "Made in China" angle, makes me think a bit. What pre-amp are you refering to? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 415 Registered: Oct-04 | Hadn't considered the "Made in China" angle, makes me think a bit. What pre-amp are you refering to? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 416 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan, You had the T-Amp on order prior to this thead? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7340 Registered: May-04 | http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-preamp_e.html No, I found this one available on Amazon. It took three days to get here. As to the T amp and the Lings, it would depend on what music you play and what volume levels you want. Tim's speaker is not that efficient but I've got the LS3/5a's hooked to the T amp right now (15 Ohm/83dB) and the two are working together well with some fairly straight forward jazz. |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 307 Registered: Jan-05 | So, it sounds like the Monitor Audio GR10's currently in the bedroom system should work with this amp? The MA's are rated 8ohm/88dB. What about the MMG's (4ohms/86dB? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7343 Registered: May-04 | My guess, and that's all it is, is the MMG's, despite being fairly tough to drive, would make decent sound though not blow you away with volume. One of the things about the class D & T amplifiers; they both alter their frequency balance slightly with alterations in the impedance load. Apparently Sonic Impact claims the T amp is realtively stable between 4 and 16 Ohms. |
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New member Username: JsbEvanston, IL Post Number: 5 Registered: Jan-06 | I had a very nice audio week as both a T amp and a pair of Lings arrived at my door (they are in the back, with the Emmas up front). At one point I hooked the T amp up to the Lings. The sound was impressive, but I couldn't really get enough out of the amp to get them up to the level I wanted. Same with the Emmas. The amp really blew me away though when I took it outside last night and ran it through my Cambridge Soundworks outdoor speakers. These are 2-way speakers with a 6" woofer -- nothing fancy, but decent for on the deck. As my neighbor and I enjoyed drinks and cigars on an unseasonably mild Chicago night, we both were amazed at how great it sounded. I was playing my Dell MP3 through it, and even with the amp at half volume, it was plenty loud. When the weather improves I may scrap my current setup, which involves much speaker wire and an outdoor volume control, and move to the T amp. It's a very cool device, especially for the money! |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 417 Registered: Oct-04 | I have a few options, I suppose I going to go with the Super T-Amp, I'd probably wind up f-ing the unit up if I tried to make what seems to be necessary modifications, plus it looks cooler. This is my current stockpile of speakers: Polk R15s 8ohms/89dB Mission M32is 8ohm/90dB Monitor Audio Radius R90s 8ohm/87dB ...I am also very intrigued by Alegria Audios Ling Single. I'll also be using a Dell MP3 player (Gen 1) as the source, or perhaps a satellite radio receiver. From a distance, what would guess to be the best match with the T-Amp? With the success of the SI T-Amp, have any other manufacturers jumped into this field yet? Are there physical limitations as to power of chip amps, or is the T-Amp just the tip of the iceberg? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7346 Registered: May-04 | Obviously, I'd begin with the most efficient speaker, the Mission. Other manufactures are building amps with the TriPath technology. The Teac amp is mentioned in the TNT review and has about 30 watts per channel. There are also some other companies that are building around the chip. Bel Canto, a manufacturer of single ended triode amps, has an amplifier built around the TriPath chip. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 418 Registered: Oct-04 | Any near this price point? |
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Silver Member Username: SimplymcintoshPost Number: 308 Registered: Jan-05 | The Bel Canto is several thousand dollars. However, one company building amps around the chip has some interesting products with their basic amp starting around $499: http://www.redwineaudio.com/Products.html |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 419 Registered: Oct-04 | The Red Wine Audio Clari-T-Amp IS the T-Amp, isn't it? It would seem that the Super T-Amp for $140 is a MUCH better value than the Clari-T-Amp for $500. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1120 Registered: Dec-04 | What would anyone consider a very efficient speaker in a small package for the T-amp? Might be a nice stereo setup at the computer. I really like Tims 3" single in maple(?) cases, he has, but really would like something special, and efficient. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 420 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck, what do you think about these? http://cgi.ebay.com/Tekton-Design-Fostex-Studio-Monitors-4inch-full-range_W0QQit emZ5856796133QQcategoryZ14991QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1122 Registered: Dec-04 | Yeah, CM, certainly special, thanks. Although not highest db/w, they look good. Might be a hard sell to my lovely wife in red, but, yeah something like these. I might skip over to speakers and see about Tims 3" as well. I also have a funky idea of my own. The T-amp is supposedly 4ohm capable? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 421 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck, the T-Amp is 4ohm capable. The speakers might come in some other color at your request. Are you refering to Tims Elf 1.0 speaker? It's rated at 86dB. What's your idea? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 422 Registered: Oct-04 | Here is a DIY project using the same TB W3-871S that's used in the Elf 1.0s. http://www.vikash.info/audio/W3-871S/index.asp This is another cabinet for the CSS FR125S that Tim uses in his Lings. http://www.planet10-hifi.com/tom-zHorn.html I REALLY like the way they look & would love to here them. Is anyone here familiar with this type of horn design? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7347 Registered: May-04 | From what I read, the Red Wine unit is simply the T amp dressed up and modified with audiophile parts. A fancy version of the Super T, if you will. I noticed one page where the modifier was taking on the Super T and still discarded what was considered a less than desireable stock volume control to replace it with a unit that should provide better quality. Right now, even the Super T is falling to the modifiers' wish for even better parts. Also, keep in mind that bass extension, size and sensitivity are tied together in a speaker and changing one will alter the other two. If size becomes the prime consideration, then bass extension will not decend as low and SPL will not be as loud. Unfortunately there still is no way to bend the laws of physics (not as long as speakers continue to operate at less than 5% efficiency, at least) to get truly high efficiency from a small package without scrapping bass response. The Fostex drivers have been a favorite of the flea watt SET crowd but suffer from some frequency response problems until you start buying their top line, expensive drivers. The driver Tim uses in the Ling (http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=WR125ST) has been regarded as a step forward in linearity in the DIY speaker builder's market place, but at the expense of some sensitivity. There is no free lunch! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1125 Registered: Dec-04 | CM, I have 4 1/2" pioneer coak car speakers, 4ohm, that might be put into cabinets. Tim gave me help before, but more for fun than something I put real effort into. And Jan rode me like a rented mule for even suggesting it, haha. I might try again with a concerted effort. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 423 Registered: Oct-04 | What about that PAWO horn design from Tom Z? Any opinions on it? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1126 Registered: Dec-04 | I missed that one CM, do you have a link? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 424 Registered: Oct-04 | up on the tread. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1133 Registered: Dec-04 | Doh! |
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Unregistered guest | Can anyone tell me how to hook two different amps up the the same set of subs. I got one 1000 watt amp, one 900 watt amp and two 1000 watt subs a just wanna know if that's possible so i can double this up so i can get 1900 watts runnin together. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1136 Registered: Dec-04 | Let me go out on a limb here, this question is regarding an automtive application, yes? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7353 Registered: May-04 | CM - What sort of opinion are you looking for? The Jordan driver is a full range single driver classic design. It is not inexpensive. Horns are, for the most part, horns. They are efficient enclosures but, as you can see from the pictures, they are not small for the SPL and bass extension you can pull out of them. If you want to read more about the Joran driver, there's a fair amount of information on it throughout the web. Many DIY'ers will use the Jordan when they want a better than average design in a SDFR speaker and they can afford to buy the Jordan driver. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 426 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan, do you have much experience with SDFRs? Have you heard the Ling Single? I own a Boston Acoustics Receptor Radio with a single 3" FR driver that is amazing. I realize this PAWO horn design is not small, but the idea that a single 4.5" driver can deliver serious sound & bass is intriguing to me. Aren't certain Bose enclosures tuned or bent horns? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7360 Registered: May-04 | Most of my experience with SDFR's has been with either; electrostats such as the Quad, old triode tube radios and phonographs, or the various small table radios that have come from Henry Kloss' companies. SDFR's have been underground for decades and have only begun to resurface due to the renewed interest in SETs. The Lowther and Jordan drivers have been around for decades, the Lowther being a design that has remained very much unchanged for something like 70 or 80 years. There have always been Lowther fans (one of the first high end shops I ever went to sold Lowthers in big cabinets that were only dwarfed by the Bozak's he also carried) but these owners were the odd ball neighbor who also drove a Citreon CV-2 (is that correct?) and wore a pocket protector. If you get ineterested in SDFR's cruise through a few of these links: http://www.audioroundtable.com/SingleDriverSpeakers/ http://geocities.com/rbrines1/ http://home.twcny.rr.com/cnydga/links.html http://www.quarter-wave.com/Gallery/Gallery.html http://www.ellisaudio.com/whyellis.htm http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/ http://www.timn8er.com/ You'll have to discuss the Alegria line with Tim, I believe some changes and tweaks have been made to some of his line. The Bose waveradios use an enclosure design that is similar to a folded horn, a transmission line, a quarter wavelength resonator and a bass reflex enclosure all in one box. To be fair, almost all speakers that have a nonsealed enclosure do the same. How all of these enclosures treat the rear wave of the driver is similar while imparting their own special bent (or simply a bend in some cases) to make them unique. What design is what "enclosure" is often a subject of debate as a tapered quarter wavelength resonator treats the soundwave very much like a horn at various frequencies and along certain positions of the signal in the enclosure. Keep in mind the small, single driver table radios have an unusual advantage that most systems cannot use to their advantage. Since the driver is known and the enclosure is a given, the amplifier designer can design into the system some frequency manipulation to eq the amp/speaker/enclosure in order to achieve better frequency extension and smoother overall sound. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 428 Registered: Oct-04 | What are SETs? The Boston Acoustics designer certainly did his homework with the Receptor. Can you envision a scenario where a SDFR would be preferable to a multi speaker array in terms of pure sonic performance? For the record, I don't own a pocket protector & I think Citreons are weak & ugly, but I do like the Mini. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7365 Registered: May-04 | http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=single%20ended%20triode%20amplifier "Can you envision a scenario where a SDFR would be preferable to a multi speaker array in terms of pure sonic performance?" Sure. Any speaker has its limitations and its trade offs. If you listen to a pair of Quads or the Ling and don't get what is happening then a SDFR might be lost on you. That's fine, everyone likes what they like and what a SDFR does well may not be for everyone given the compromises involved. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7366 Registered: May-04 | http://www.bd-design.nl/wwwboard/forum_entry.php?id=10137 |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 430 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan, thanks for the links. I've been exploring some SDFR webpages myself, and I'm trying to grasp some very technical matter with a VERY base understanding of such things. |
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Anonymous | I have been using T Amps in my recording studio for about a year now and confess that they are the best thing out. I have used them with Leaks, Hafler, Infinity, etc and they continue to impress everybody who hears them. |
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Unregistered guest | Hi all, Is there any difference between Super T Amp and Teac AL700P? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7665 Registered: May-04 | Yes, the amps are quite different and utilize a different Tripath chip for the outputs. |
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Unregistered guest | So which one is better in stock form? (price aside) |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7668 Registered: May-04 | I don't know, they sound very similar. |
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New member Username: C001m4nPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | Will these drive a pair of Polk Audio Monitor10s (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/monitor10/)? I am planning on getting these speakers and want an amp that won't kill my budget. I assume the only difference between the Super T-amp and the Class T-amp is the RCA inputs? The Monitor10s suggest 20 to 250W, will the 15W RMS T-amp drive these speakers to a decent level for watching movies and listening to music in my living room (approx 21x21 feet squred)? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7955 Registered: May-04 | No. |
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New member Username: C001m4nPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | How so? Based on my calculations (using a SPL calculator) the T-amp with 6W will drive a 89 dB/W/m driver 2m away up to 92dB. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7959 Registered: May-04 | With no headroom. You are not calculating whether the Polk is an easy or difficult load to drive. Your SPL number only assumes the speaker to be an eight ohm load with totally benign reactance at all times. That's unlikely to be the case with the Polks. For music you would like to have at least ten dB of dynamic range. Twenty would be much better for most movies. If you feel 92dB max before the amp begins to clip, assuming it likes the speaker load enough to get that loud, is sufficient for how you listen, spend the money for the amplifier. You know how you listen better than I do. You asked but then didn't care for my answer. If you had this figured to your satisfaction, why'd you bother to ask? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1765 Registered: Dec-04 | I ordered a couple of Sonic T's today, and expect VERY expensive delivery within the week. Now, as for a power source, I do not want a lead acid battery in my house, so I am doing as follows. Lead acid source in the garage, with appropriate leads inside. Not wanting the battery to get low on volts, I have a zener circuit in shunt,at 11.3v, pulling a solid state relay to power an industrial switching power supply, buffered to 12.5 volts with diodes on each polarity. The power supply is on a timer with a light on signal, so as to warn me before it turns on, maybe I want to turn down, or off the amp before the switch. Boris Karloff/Rube Goldberg lives on. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1766 Registered: Dec-04 | I may look at Klipch mini speakers here at the 'puter. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7975 Registered: May-04 | I'd be more impressed if you made the power supply work from the garage on a 900mHz wireless network. Why the problem with SLA's? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7976 Registered: May-04 | And why order a couple amps? Do you know these amps can't be bridged? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1770 Registered: Dec-04 | They gas like a mexican after lunch, but mexican guys don't explode, except for spontanious Mexican combustion. I would also be impressed if I could send them over the phone...wait...hmmm... A coupla amps because1) I pay through the nose for shipping, 2) if I blow one up I got a spare, 3) if it works well, I have another room. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1771 Registered: Dec-04 | And mail headed to you, Jan. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 7979 Registered: May-04 | My understanding of Sealed Lead Acid batteries doesn't unclude out gassing. They are safe for emergency lights and so forth. I think you are mistaking SLA's for a typical motorcycle battery. Have you read this thread? https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/reviews/209464.html |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1775 Registered: Dec-04 | All lead acid batteries must have a vent installed to prevent overpressurisation(spell that 3 times fast). I dont want one in my room. Further, in the WCS, they can blow up and burn, my insurance company is skittish as it is, you can understand why. Anyhow, I'm looking at the power manegement system more than the source. It looks good on paper. Of course, everything does. |
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New member Username: SaidasSan diego, Ca Usa Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | I have very limited knowledge and I am in need of some good advice. I am moving to India (power adaptability?) and I want to purchase the Sonic T amp and the best compatible bookshelf speakers in the $200-$250 US range. I mostly listen to world,classical,rock. I would like something with good bass but don't need to thump. Volume would be moderate to moderate/high. Music source would be an Mp3 player. Can the Sonic T be used in conjunction with a pc instead of an Mp3 player? And speaking of pc's, are there any efficient enough 2.1 pc speakers? Thanks for any advice. S |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8021 Registered: May-04 | The T amp can be run from the line outputs of a PC. Usually you put powered speakers with a PC. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1880 Registered: Dec-04 | My T-amps came today, I will get to fiddle with them in a week or so.Probably try the first one on the pc. |
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New member Username: SillyboyPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I happen to own an un-amplified sub (came with a home theater in a box system). It has just speaker wire inputs. My (new) receiver has a line output for a sub... can I use the T-Amp to drive the sub? Just looking for a cheap way to power my sub  Would I just use "half" the T-Amp? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2016 Registered: Dec-04 | The T-amp will run nothing bigger than a birdhouse, Scott. A No-Go |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8162 Registered: May-04 | There are class T amplifiers available with enough wattage to power a subwoofer. The Sonic Impat amp is not one of them. If you want a "cheap" way to power your sub, either buy a used amp or get a plate amplifier from somewhere like Parts Express. |
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New member Username: SillyboyPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 | Thanks folks |
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