Speakers for Movies, TV & Music

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 25
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 02:03 pm:

I'm looking to upgrade my Bose Acoustimass 12 speakers to something that would give me better sound & bass. I currently have an Onkyo TXDS797 that would be pushing the speakers. I'm looking to go with 5.1 speakers & a sub, not 7.1.

My budget is around $1500.00, can go a bit more if it's well worth it. Please help me get rid of these damn Bose speakers.

BTW- The smaller the better but I am will to go with large speakers if needed.

Felix

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 26
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 02:16 pm:

OH, and if a sub is not necessary, if going with free standing speakers with woofers in them is better I'm willing to consider that route as well.

Felix

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 27
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 02:18 pm:

OH, and if a sub is not necessary, if going with free standing speakers with woofers in them is better I'm willing to consider that route as well.

Felix

MarkEsq.

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 03:20 pm:

Get an Orb Audio Mod2 system for $1,169. It blows away the Bose on exactly the points you want -- better sound and bass, but is still compact. I replaced my Bose w/ them a year ago (and sold the Bose on ebay) and couldn't be happier.

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 2364
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 05:02 pm:

Relix,

Hell even a $300 Athena Micra satellite system would destroy those lousy Bose speakers.

Of course even small bookshelves would be much better than tiny satellites, and save you lots of money for a good subwoofer and even a different receiver. If you are mostly doing HT a good subwoofer is essential, as is the front 3 speakers, whereas with the surrounds you can go cheap and be fine as long as you don't do a lot of SACD/DVD-A multichannel music.

Here's what I'd get:

Ascend 170s L/R, 340center, Hsu STF-2 subwoofer, $1045 shipped from ascendacoustics.com (if you have a really big room and/or are a real basshead you can spend an extra $200 for the STF-3). That 340 center is not small but is truly worth the bulk and price, since over 60% of movie soundtracks consists of dialogue which it does incredibly well...you won't need to crank the volume much to understand what the actors are saying, voices are totally clear and natural.

Athena AS-B1s for surrounds, $100 shipped from audioadvisor.com

Panasonic sa-xr55 pure digital receiver, $230 shipped from Amazon.com (see the huge thread on this in the Receivers section)

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 456
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 06:22 pm:

Since you have an Onkyo receiver, I would stick with that for now. Its a higher end model and a pretty good one at that anyways. If you choose to go the Ascend route, which wouldn't be a bad choice so long as you can listen to them first, I would stick with 5-CBM 170's all around and then get the best HSU sub you can.

There area a lot of speakers out there to choose from though with speakers in your budget though. For example, Klipsch, Paradigm, Cambridge Soundworks, Athena, Axiom, etc etc etc that could all provide first rate sound at your price. I would suggest going to a few local audio shops and looking around.

Eric Salmassy

New member

Username: Baseballfan

Post Number: 5
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 06:47 pm:

Since you list movies first, I would say yes for sure on the sub.

Second, unless you *must* go for the little satellites (either for space or WAF reasons) then don't. The simple reason for this is that movies are mixed assuming a "default" setup with speakers crossing over to the sub at 80Hz. Most satellite systems cross over closer to 120Hz meaning that the bass is going to be localizable (it will sound like it is coming from the sub's location in the room).

With $1500 to spend you should be able to match a nice sub (SVS or Hsu) and a good set of speakers.

For B&M brands I'd suggest looking at JBL (Northridge series) or Klipsch (Reference series bookshelves + center).

I'm not all that familiar with many of the online brands, but I hear good things about Ascend Acoustics. You could do a system with 5 CBM-170s and a Hsu VTF2 sub for $1300 shipped. You'd need stands for those, so that would end up close to your $1500 budget.

Really, you'll have a fair number of good speaker systems to consider at $1500. You should try to get to some stores and listen to some peakers in your price range, and then if you post here and say which speakers you liked we might have some other suggestions based on your preferences.

Stu Pitt

Silver Member

Username: Stu_pitt

NYC, NY

Post Number: 617
Registered: May-05

Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 07:48 pm:

Felix -
I haven't heard the Internet direct speakers that have been mentioned here, but they get great reviews. As an alternative, I'd check out PSB. They are a great sounding speaker at a great price. Their subs are decent, but you can do better for the money. I'd check out the HSU and SVS.

You can get PSB speakers at a great price here -

https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm
or
http://www.hipposaudiovideo.com/closeout1.htm

They are factory blemished from DMC, whereas they are brand new at Hippo's. At DMC has systems put together, but I'd try to get a better deal without the sub. Hippo's has the Image B15 on closeout, so they may not have enough pairs for you.

The best thing to do is go to a local hi-fi store and start listening to stuff. The chain stores such as Best Buy and Circuit City rarely have anything worth the price.

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 28
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 08:46 am:

Wow, thanks for all the great advise.

I do like the Ascends especially since they sell a wall bracket. What is the maximum recommended hight for the fronts to be mounted? If I go with the Ascends I�d like to mount them about 5 1/2 feet up on my wall, would that be a problem?

Felix

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 29
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 08:58 am:

Here is a picture of my set up, as you can see I have very limited space on the side that is the reason I'd like to mount them on the wall. Do you think this would be ok?

Felix

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 2395
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:40 pm:

Felix,

you can mount the Ascends as high or as low as you like, as long as you have them tilted so that the tweeters are pointed at your ear level listening position.

Personally I think that if you watch a lot of TV and movies, the 340 center channel is worth the extra money and bulk, it really puts dialogue right into your room, totally clear and natural such that you won't need to turn up the volume much to understand what the actors are saying.

If you go to the Ascend website's forum they do have a sticky on how to wall-mount the center channel too.

Tawaun A.Williams

Gold Member

Username: T_bomb25

Dayton, Ohio
United States

Post Number: 1074
Registered: Jun-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 12:51 pm:

Or he can go 170s all the way around,check out the B&W LM 1 & VM 1 to they could be a good choice also.

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 30
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 04:33 pm:

As you can see from my limited space I have about 7 feet across to play with. Do you all think 3 speakers (2 Ascend 170s L/R, and 1 Ascend 340 center) would be ok or to close together?

Felix

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 2412
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 05:45 pm:

7 feet should be fine.

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 31
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 09:00 am:

OK so here is what I will be ordering today, what sucks is that according to the salesman I spoke with yesterday they are on a 2 week back order!

Anyway here it is:

4- 170�s L/R Front & Rear
1- 340 Center
1- VTF3 MK2 Sub
2- Omni brackets
75 ft Speaker Wire

Total: $1780.00 shipped to my door

Thanks for all the input guys, i'll post pics & my thoughts as soon as I have them hooked up.

Felix

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 2433
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 09:06 am:

OMG, a VTF3...that is gonna be one helluva a sweet system! If you have any Bose-loving friends make sure they come over for a listen after it's set up.

I look forward to hearing your writeup of the results, congrats!

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 32
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 09:37 am:

I choose the VTF3 after speaking with the rep at Ascend. I explained to him that the room is about 18 x 18 with vaulted ceilings and open on two sides. He did not try to push it on me he just though with room like I was describing I'd be a bit more happy with the 10" STF2. Did not take much convincing I must say.

Besides I'm the type of person that would kick myself in the butt if I spent $300.00 less knowing that for $300.00 more I could have had their top of the line woofer!

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 33
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 10:00 am:

So now starts the setup questions:
1- Can the woofer (with the power of it) be placed next to my TV like I have my Bose woofer or should I find a different location.

2-Be it that the speakers will be hooked directly to my receiver, not to the sub like the Bose system what should my LFE setting be, my speaker size setting be and what should I set the Ohms at?

This I�m sure will be just the start of my question so please bare with me as I want to do this right....

Thanks,
Felix

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 2437
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 10:12 am:

1. With the VTF3 you can put it anywhere in your room and still get plenty of bass. Of course a corner would provide the maximum amount. Just play around with different locations once you get it in.

2. Definitely on "small."

btw after you receive your Ascends feel free to call them for tips, they are very helpful over the phone.

Jorge Ribeiro

Bronze Member

Username: Jorge59

Rio de Janeiro
Brasil

Post Number: 54
Registered: May-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 12:35 pm:

Felix

If space is an issue, you could go with 5 HTM-200. Specially because you might be able to wall mount all the 3 across the front.

The 340 center is fantastic in sound, but pretty bulky. Also, make sure that CBM-170 rears isn't overkill.

Stu Pitt

Silver Member

Username: Stu_pitt

NYC, NY

Post Number: 626
Registered: May-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 01:34 pm:

Felix -
For help placing speakers and a sub, here's some great and easy to understand info.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/audioTopics.php?fpId=7

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 34
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 07:37 pm:

Thanks for all the replies I will re-think my set up I don't want to "overbuy"...something I tend to do. I do think I my go smaller on the rears and the center, not the sub.

Another question: People here talk about changing the crossover frequency of their receiver to match their speakers, My receiver was not cheap but does not have an option for this, it this going to be a problem?

Felix

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 469
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 07:42 pm:

You may wish to find what it is set to. The most common setting is 80Hz which should work very well with the Ascend speakers.

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 35
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 08:44 pm:

Thanks Devils for the advice, will do! Do you think this will be listed in the manual (If so what do I look for) or should I call Onkyo direct?

Felix

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 2452
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 11:00 pm:

if your Onkyo really does not have a HPF you could either use the Hsu's high level inputs or buy one of these:

http://www.hsustore.com/high-pass.html

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 471
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2005 - 11:08 pm:

I would think it would be in the manual for the receiver somewhere...But if all else fails call Onkyo. 80Hz is the THX standard which most receivers comply to though.

Jan Vigne

Gold Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 5997
Registered: May-04

Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 12:05 am:

http://www.hlabs.com/technical/crossovers/

Much cheaper. You're not paying for a fancy box.

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 2454
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 12:24 am:

interesting!

Jan, are these attenuators for use only with RCA cables between an amp and receiver/pre-amp or can they be used on the speaker wire between the receiver and speakers?

The website is kind of a nightmare...

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 36
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 08:10 am:

OK please bare with me here as I am far from the HT pro. Would any of these be what I need to change my crossover frequency as recommended?

Here is what I can do with my receiver:
Speaker Size: Small Or Large
RE EQ: On or Off
Change my ohms: 4-8
Change LFE: On or off from -10db to 0db (0db being the initial value). Is this my crossover frequency?

Thanks again.

Felix

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 37
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 09:15 am:

OK so I called Onkyo here is what they said.
That I cannot direcetly change the frequency rate BUT
If I set my speakers to "Large" the rate starts at 80 and under
If I set them to "Small" the rate is 100 and over.

SO is this OK for me now?

Felix

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 38
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 11:31 am:

Edster:
I'd like to go a bit cheaper if possible, is the VTF2 a BIG downgrade from the VTF3 MK2 and will the VTF2 still be a big improvment over my my Bose sub.

Also on the rears is their much difference between the 170's and the 200's?
Thanks again,

Felix

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 474
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 11:47 am:

Interesting. Usually when you set a speaker to large it is running full range, and when it is set to small it is crossed over with the subwoofer at a fixed or adjustable frequency. In any event, it seems either setting should work from what I think you're saying. The best way to know though would be to experiment.

As for the VTF2 vrs 3, either would wipe the floor with your Bose sub. The VTF-3 will have more headroom, but there is a distinct possibility that you may never need it.

As for your rears, I imagine either the 170 or 200 would do the job quite nicely.

Bronze Member

Username: Nyrfan

Post Number: 39
Registered: Aug-05

Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 12:22 pm:

Hello Devils,

I am thinking I either understood they guy an Onkyo wrong or he said it wrong, what I do know is he confirmed 80 on one and 100 on the other. Good to know I can now use my receiver properly, thanks for your input.

As for the speakers....I'm a guy who likes his toys (BAD TRAITE) and ALWAYS overbuys! I'll let you all know what I decide on. Decision will be made as I�m on the phone with Ascend later this afternoon.

Felix

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 476
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 12:30 pm:

Good luck either way, not that you can really go too far wrong. Let us know how everything turns out though.