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Thread: Cable recommendation for my new CD Player |
    
New member Username: Kodiack12345
Post Number: 1
Registered: Oct-05
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| Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 03:03 am: |
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Just need some advice people:
I just got my self a new cd player ARCAM CD73 which replaced my harmon kardon FL8380.
I have an Onkyo NR900 Rec and a pair of B&W DM 604 speakers. Currently I am using a regular monster rca between my Onkyo and my Arcam player.
I want to get a better audio interconnect but don't know which on to get.... any suggestions? |
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Relevant Product Info
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Gold Member Username: Edster922
Abubala,
Ababala
The Occupation
Post Number: 2331
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 06:10 pm: |
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Mel,
sorry about your Monster cable, you could've paid about 1/3 as much for any generic cable from Home Depot or Walmart and gotten the same results.
Monster is pretty much the Bose of cables.
Here's a good summary of the cable myth among other audio myths:
http://www.theaudiocritic.com/cwo/Sample_Articles/?id=5 |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 1838
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 06:22 pm: |
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Don't believe the cable myth boloney that you read in such links. It really makes about as much sense as the arguments that all"good" amplifiers sounds alike or that all cd players sound alike. They don't and neither do cables. That doesn't mean that you have to spend alot for quality it just means that doing some research is not a bad thing. Other than that Edster is right Monster is not a very good brand. Ixos and NXG make very good budget cables. I have mine custom made at my local audio store and they are the best I've heard for up to several times there price.
You are ofcourse aware of the imbalance of your system I'm sure. Your cd player outclasses the rest your gear by a wide margin. You won't get the most out of the Arcam regardless of your cable with the Onkyo receiver but the sound would likely improve with good cables. I would suggest Kimber or even some AR's (not many)are halfway decent. Good luck. |
Silver Member Username: Black_math
Post Number: 314
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2005 - 07:47 pm: |
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Nordost and Audioquest are good cables with Arcam. You may also look for Eichmann. |
Gold Member Username: Edster922
Abubala,
Ababala
The Occupation
Post Number: 2350
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 01:31 am: |
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melibu,
here's a very simple proposition: Go buy yourself a cheap $4 generic RCA cable from Walmart, A/B it with your Onkyo and Arcam, and tell us if you hear any difference.
Better yet, have someone blind test you on it so you don't know which cable you're listening to. |
New member Username: Kodiack12345
Post Number: 2
Registered: Oct-05
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| Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 12:02 pm: |
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The reason why I bought the new cd player is because with my harmon kardon cd, the sound comming out is very bright sounding, not smooth at all, expecially when you want to listen to the music a little bit more. I just thought going after the source will be a good idea. Even with the arcam player it still sounds a little bright.... i don;t know what to do... maybe the Onkyo produces bright sound? Maybe is the B&W? I just don't know anymore......... |
Gold Member Username: Edster922
Abubala,
Ababala
The Occupation
Post Number: 2360
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 01:19 pm: |
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Onkyo is not known for being bright at all. They are known for having very inflated RMS numbers though, so if the B&W speakers are actually being underpowered that might be the cause. I have no experience with B&W, so no idea if they're usually described as "bright" or "warm." |
Silver Member Username: Touche6784
USA
Post Number: 618
Registered: Nov-04
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| Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 02:36 pm: |
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generalizations
HK-neutral to warm
B&W-warm
Onkyo- bright, overinflated |
Gold Member Username: Edster922
Abubala,
Ababala
The Occupation
Post Number: 2366
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Monday, October 03, 2005 - 05:11 pm: |
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Onkyo as "bright?" I don't think I've ever heard that one. I certainly wouldn't call my 601 "bright"---more like "lifeless." |
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New member Username: Kodiack12345
Post Number: 3
Registered: Oct-05
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| Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 08:10 pm: |
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What the heck, I think I should just buy a new cd player and an integrated amp just for music. Instead of mucking around with my current configuration. What do you guys think about the Arcam solo??? |
Bronze Member Username: Fatelvis
Post Number: 12
Registered: Feb-06
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| Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 11:22 pm: |
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You already have the CD73 -- pick up an a65+ and call it a day. Dump the Onkyo. You won't heat "the bright" any longer.
P.S. you are OK with the monster cable. I a/b'd monsters vs. Kimber Heros through the CD73's dual outs. No diff. People here are nuts if they think they can hear a difference. |
New member Username: Starbucks
Post Number: 2
Registered: Feb-06
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| Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 02:29 am: |
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Kodiaks, I would recommend you to test the cables personally in the hi fi shop, and listen to urself provided the shop have the same setting. Or arrange to bring ur own equipment, you may reduce the risk of picking wrong cables.
U can test till faint and buy the best cable for ur taste. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 2799
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:59 am: |
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"P.S. you are OK with the monster cable. I a/b'd monsters vs. Kimber Heros through the CD73's dual outs. No diff. People here are nuts if they think they can hear a difference."
People are deaf if they can't! In which case go to Walmart and buy your cables. Why not, It makes no difference. |
Bronze Member Username: Fatelvis
Post Number: 13
Registered: Feb-06
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| Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 02:36 pm: |
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Art --- you've been suckered. I can hear clear difference between a C521bee, C542, CD72 and CD192, and clear difference between a C320BEE and a A65+. But cables? No way. Jewelery for your gear, that's all it is. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 2801
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 03:52 pm: |
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Sorry but it ain't the case Jeff. I don't pay for expensive cables but I can clearly hear the differences. It's impossible to convince folks who don't hear so I won't try, but I know what I hear. If you own Monster then you've paid more than I did. |
The Phoenix Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 04:27 pm: |
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Contrary to what Edster maintains, cables can make a difference. But it is very equipment dependent. If you have a cheap system from stem to stern, save yourself money and buy the generic stuff. But if your system is high end, there is a good possibilty that you will notice an audible difference between certain cables. Unlike others in this forum, I disagree that Monster cables are per se crap. They tend to be grossly overpriced. But certain of their materials (for example, terminals) are generally of better quality than the generic stuff. But as I indicated, you can do better for the price. Trust the MOFO. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 2803
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 05:33 pm: |
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This wouldn't be Dale would it? |
The Phoenix Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 07:45 am: |
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Art is an amazing fellow. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 2828
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 09:34 am: |
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Hello Dale. Monster power conditioners are actually quite good. |
The Phoenix Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 02:57 pm: |
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Art, I see you are still hanging around with a bunch of losers. Thought you and Edster would have gone a long time ago. You two guys are among the small minority in this forum who consistently have something of substance to say. Still enjoying that Marantz that Edster turned me on to. Check you later. |
Silver Member Username: Stu_pitt
Irvington,
New York
USA
Post Number: 975
Registered: May-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 04:12 pm: |
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Welcome back, your dreams were your ticket out.
Welcome back, to that same old place that you laughed about.
Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they’re turned around.
Who’d have thought they’d lead ya (Who’d have thought they’d lead ya)
Back here where we need ya (Here where we need ya)
Yeah we tease him a lot cause we’ve got him on the spot,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.
I thought you were banned. As the song says, Welcome Back |
The Phoenix Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, March 02, 2006 - 04:16 pm: |
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Is Welcome Back Kotter back in syndication? Otherwise, I have no idea what Stu is talking about. But I loved that theme song. Who did it? Wasn't James Taylor was it? |
Bronze Member Username: Musicluvr
Post Number: 53
Registered: Apr-05
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| Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 12:11 am: |
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"But I loved that theme song. Who did it? Wasn't James Taylor was it?"
No, John Sebastian. |
The Phoenix Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 12:57 pm: |
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ctanaka, thanks a lot. That's great. Love a poster who knows what (s)he is talking about and gives a direct answer to a direct question. |
New member Username: Kodiack12345
Post Number: 4
Registered: Oct-05
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| Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 07:20 pm: |
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how the heck did my cd player and bright sounding issue turn into a horrific cd album picture display? |
Silver Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 833
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 07:36 pm: |
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Back to cables. Edster and Jeff are wrong imho. My brother sent me a pair of QED interconnects and I replaced the Monster 1400MK11's from the C542 to the C162. After a few minutes the difference was clear. I didn't like the old pair of QED's. The bass was reduced, there was less decay on symbals and piano, and the music overall became less involving. With the 1400MK11's back in place, everything was as it should be. Wonderful!
And I know Monster isn't the cable of choice, but i cannot afford to try others. There is nowhere here with any decent selection where one can borrow or get money back if not satisfied. |
Silver Member Username: Hawk
Highlands Ranch,
CO
USA
Post Number: 966
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 08:41 pm: |
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Rantz:
Please don't feel apologetic over your choice of cables. As always, if it sounds good to you, that is all that matters. And, as a matter of record, I happen to think Monster is pretty good stuff . . . |
Silver Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 835
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 09:06 pm: |
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Hawk, yes you're right of course. I wasn't really apologising for my choice of cables, it's just that I have not had much experience in comparing them. I had heard subtle differences in some speaker cables, but I'd never really considered much of a change would be evident in various interconnects. Now I am a true believer, though Id never spend a fortune on them. BTW - I happen to think those 1400MK11's are pretty good as is the HD Monster speaker cable. Though I have changed mine out for Kordz biwire which I think is just a touch better in my system.
Cheers Mate - good to see you back here again lately. |
Silver Member Username: Uback007
Post Number: 127
Registered: Mar-06
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| Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 09:26 pm: |
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I really like the $50 cables from Signalcable.com
Great bang for the buck..they made a noticeable difference in my set-up. More bass, better transients and depth..overall, a better sound.
Give them a try. Great customer service as well. |
Silver Member Username: Gamerdude
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 202
Registered: Apr-06
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| Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
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www.monoprice.com |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 4310
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 12:21 pm: |
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http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ffrc_e.html
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~umsefton/cables/htm/materials.html |
Silver Member Username: Gamerdude
Ontario
Canada
Post Number: 203
Registered: Apr-06
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| Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 04:19 pm: |
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Hey Nuck is Canuck cables anygood? |
Bronze Member Username: Jingka99
Kuala Lumpur,
Kuala Lumpur
Malaysia
Post Number: 18
Registered: Aug-06
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| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 11:08 pm: |
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Hi, I changed my IC from QED Qunex to Straightwire chorus and found out that the C352+C542 combo works well with straightwire chorus II...the improvement was not immediately evident in the first few hours of listening but gradually improved...you'll noticed a tighter bass, smoother highs, clearer vocals... |
Bronze Member Username: Fatelvis
Post Number: 51
Registered: Feb-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 09:30 am: |
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Switch back to your QED IC's and you may notice additional enhancements. |
Bronze Member Username: Jingka99
Kuala Lumpur,
Kuala Lumpur
Malaysia
Post Number: 19
Registered: Aug-06
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| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
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yah yah...I know what you mean!!!
Thanks for the advise man....you're a great help in this forum!!! |
Silver Member Username: Daniel_canada
Canada
Post Number: 183
Registered: May-06
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| Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 12:07 am: |
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Nuck, cool link. You know those guys? I live 5 minutes from the U of M. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 4412
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 05:52 am: |
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I do not know them, Dan. Let me know if you get in touch with them? |
New member Username: Charliebrown
Post Number: 1
Registered: Nov-06
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| Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 10:52 pm: |
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Hi I've bought several cables from Mike at Canuck Cables and I'm very pleased so far.
For interconnects he uses Canare L-5CFB. It's a VERY heavy duty co-axial and it's extremely stiff.
I noticed a major leap in performance from standard cheapies, but I haven't had the chance to do any A/B tests with any other high end cables.
I do know that Canare has a good reputation for high quality cables and the build quality on the connectors is amazing.
The kicker for me is that they're so damn cheap, so they're perfect for my modest NAD setup. I can't believe how much some people are charging for the same cables with fancy jackets. |
Bronze Member Username: Underarock
Milwaukee,
WI
USA
Post Number: 77
Registered: Oct-06
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| Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 03:06 pm: |
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Edster,
Thank you very much for your link! I'm just now reading it, and love the article on audio myths. If the magazine is still in publication, I'm a subscriber! I'm glad I'm reading it now, before getting too involved in the high expense of "audiophile" equipment.
Just made my day! Thanks again! |
Silver Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 939
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 05:03 pm: |
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I'm with Art on this cable argument. I never would have spent much on cables, but I tried Monster 400Mk111 or whatever. Not a lot of difference than the cheaper ones I had, but they were little better. A speaker dealer I saw when on holidays lent me a couple of pair of Merlin cables to try. They were very expensive (in my terms), but after trying them I was sold. Even my wife noticed the difference and she didn't know what cables I was using. The benefits of these cables were like upgrading the components.
Anyone who says cables make no difference either have tin ears or just haven't tried too many. That doesn't mean all cables are all different. Many may have similar specs so don't dismiss the value of the right cables for your system. |
Bronze Member Username: The13thgryphon
Spokane,
WA
USA
Post Number: 19
Registered: Jul-04
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| Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 09:19 pm: |
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If we look at the issue of cables from a scientific viewpoint, then it would seem to make sense that different cables could, and would, have different effects on the electrical signal passing through them.
Sure, "wire is wire". However, depending on the guage of the wire used, and whether it is solid core or stranded, and how many strands are used, and how they are braided, and what insulator is used, and whether it is shielded or not, and what jacket material it is all wrapped in, a cable can pass a near perfect signal, or act as an antenna or attenuator (low-pass or high-pass filter).
A cable can never make a signal "sound better"... but it can, and many do, modify the signal passing through them to some degree. A cable can make the sound "worse"... or degrade the signal it is carrying.
Every cable has three characteristics: resistance, capacitance, and inductance. These characteristics determine the total impedance of the cable. Impedance is a measure of how much the cable impedes the flow of electrical current. Well, if the cable is impeding the flow of electrons, then by definition, it is changing or modifying the signal being transmitted through it. The change may not be much, but it is there.
Resistance is a measurement of the tendency to resist the flow of current. The larger the diameter of the conductor, the lower the resistance. Capacitance is more of an issue than resistance, however.
A capacitor is an electrical device consisting of two conductors separated by a space that is most often filled with an insulating material. Isnt this exactly how cables are constructed: conductors surrounded by an insulating material and a shield? The entire cable is therefore one big capacitor that resists the flow of current. This capacitive reactance is greatly influenced by the insulating material.
As a signal travels through the wire it creates a magnetic field that changes along with the signal voltage. This process is called self-inductance, and impedes the signal by virtue of its inductive reactance.
All of these attributes can be controlled -- or at least properly balanced -- if attention is paid to them. However, if proper attention is not given to these properties then the results can be less than desirable. Resistance, capacitance, and inductance can combine and interact in complex ways.
These are just some of the basics of cable design, and I will readily admitt that if anything I have oversimplified the issues. However, it may give you some concept of why cables can indeed effect performance (usually not in a good way) and therefore sound different.
I am not advocating for uber-expensive cable purchases. Fortunately, most reasonably priced, well-made cables address these problems to a very high degree. Some just do a better job than others at addressing them... or at least in addressing one or more of the potential problem areas. And therefore, some cables work better in certain circumstances, and in some systems, than others. |
Gold Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 3680
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 10:15 pm: |
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Well done John. |
New member Username: Mr_hifi
Post Number: 2
Registered: Jan-07
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| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 02:35 pm: |
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I must agree with John!
Than again as you conclude “Fortunately, most reasonably priced, well-made cables address these problems to a very high degree.”
Additionally as for your comment “Some just do a better job than others at addressing them... “ I would add that if you happened to stumble over those particular cables and they are cheap than indeed buy them.
As for the sorry ones that do not happened to stumble over the “ultimate” cable, a regular one with good physical measurement will do just fine and the reminding budget will be better invested in other HiFi equipment e.g. amp or cd-player. A decently priced cable (without snake-oil dressing and hyper marketing) would be e.g. Blue Jeans cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm) for 27-40 USD depending on length. No “breaking in” or other mumbo jumbo only pure physics and decent sound.
I have them myself in my system (Primare I30 integrated amp, cd-player Denon DVD 3910 solid state and/or Doge 6 tube cdp and B&W speakers) and are totally satisfied. Furthermore, I have been able to fault/differentiate pretty much any of the other component in my system in blind test comparison. However, never cables, except for “bad” ones (read very strange physical measurements or bad quality construction) which will clearly filter the signal.
So to tie back to the original question/problem, of course you can hear a difference if the cable (with its “bad” physics or construction) filter the signal. I would even go so far as to say that you can sort a “over” bright or “over” bassed system with different cables. However that clearly comes with a price since these are cables which actually are losing/filtering out some of your frequency range. If your budget allow, I would rather recommend that you try to change one or several of the other components to get a better system matching to resolve the problem. This will let you keep as much as possible of the original signal from source to speaker in a desirable manner.
Finally, if your cables are short (if cd is on top of amp you would not need more than a feet/30cm) you might even get away with a par of really expensive (snake oiled) RCAs without any large problems…….
//Magnus |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 5274
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 03:04 pm: |
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Magnus, you are correct.
A 'better' cable is sufficient in 99% of the users here.
Just like MR did, just go a bit above the norm, and you will be really good most of the time.
If only the general buying public would pay attention... |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 5275
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 03:05 pm: |
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BTW, how much more cool can a name be than 'Magnus'?. |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1040
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 05:06 pm: |
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Icenus? |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 5286
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 05:12 pm: |
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Granted.
Rantz, your Greek has paid off, finally. |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1041
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 05:50 pm: |
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For the tin ears on this thread, I'll repeat my cable (interconnect) experience.
See my profile for associated equip, but when I got my C542 I was using Monster Interlink 1400 MKII cable and the CDP sounded quite good - well I though extremely good actually. Prior I was using a Marantz CC4300 and a Denon 2900 both began with cheap (but better than those standard provided ones) IC's and the Monsters gave an little improvement in detail and a tad warmer bass.
When I was given the opportunity to test drive some Merlin IC's I was in for a big surprise at the difference good cables can make. They improved the high end detail, took the edge of vocals and some instruments from recordings that once suffered from this malaise , and really controlled the bass to a degree that one can follow every now well rounded, smooth and complete note regardless of the number of instruments in play. Attack and decay became more prominent and the player seemed to have a new sense of timing, although this because of the other benefits introduced by the Merlins.
Here's the strange part. My NAD C542 sounded so much better than my Denon 3910 (recent addition) when both connected with the Monsters. With the Merlins the NAD CDP surpassed the Denon in spades. But with the Merlins attached to both players, they sound 100% identical. I can only gather that the Merlins in some way offered far more improvement for the Denon. However, was the price I paid for three sets of Merlins (The Chopin for the pre/power amps and the Verdis for the CDP's to pre) worth it at a total cost of $725.00AU?
You bet it was! For the benefits they brought to four components it was, in real terms, a small price to pay. But, I would never have looked at or considered expensive (and these were from Merlin's standard range) cables if I hadn't been given them to test drive. Even my wife could tell the difference - I swapped them around without her knowing which was in play and she could pick the difference every time - and so she should have, they improved the sound quality to a degree that was quite obvious. For her to come to the same conclusion when spending this sort of money on wire really makes a statement here!
For those that think cable improvement is snake oil, well that's too bad, call us losers, we'll live with it, but those who know, know who's losing. |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 5287
Registered: Dec-04
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| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 05:56 pm: |
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Very real time, Rantz.
So well stated. |
Gold Member Username: My_rantz
Australia
Post Number: 1042
Registered: Nov-05
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| Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 06:05 pm: |
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Well, I thank you sir! |
Gold Member Username: Nuck
Post Number: 5293
Registered: Dec-04
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