NAD C352 for Bi-amp

New member

Username: Eddietfman

Hong Kong

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 04:45 am:

Hi there!

I am using NAD C352, and thinking to add another C352 for bi-amping. The C352 facilitates 2x pre-outs. I will use the pre-amp section of one of my C352 only, and then connect its 2x pre-outs to the power amps of both C352s. With this setup, should I better bi-amp horizontally (i.e. one amp for high/mid drivers, another amp for bass driver) than vertically (i.e. one amp for one channel, left output for high/mid drivers and right output for bass driver)? I have heard that vertical bi-amp is better than the horizontal one. However, if I choose vertical bi-amp, I wonder if the sonic performances of left and right channels will not be identical to each other, as one C352 with both pre-amp and power amp run together at the same time whilst another C352 runs its power amp section only.

My current setup is:
Source : Philips CD-951 CD Player and Denon DVD-2200 Universal Player
Amp : NAD C352CT
Speaker : ELAC FS109.2
Interconnect & Speaker Cables : Mogami DIY cables

Any comments from you folks would be appreciated.

Eddie

Relevant Product Info

Silver Member

Username: Danman

QUEBEC
CANADA

Post Number: 554
Registered: Apr-04

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 08:26 am:

I would not get another C352 but rather a C272 and use the variable input to adjust your sound level. The pre-amp section of your 352 is very good and will give you wonderful sound.

Of course the method you mention would work but for a small difference, a 272 would be a better upgrade for the future if you decide to change your amp at a later date.

New member

Username: Eddietfman

Hong Kong

Post Number: 2
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 10:52 am:

Hi Danman,
Do you mean that I better to add a C272 rather than another C352, hooping up to my current C352 for bi-amping, or just to use the pre-amp section of my current C352 connecting to the C272 as a pre-amp/power amp combo?
I asked NAD's customer service for the possibility of bi-amping with C352+C272 but they said to me that C272 is not compatible to C352 for bi-amping. Any folks out there tried bi-amping C352+C272? Any experiences to share would be appreciated.

New member

Username: Eddietfman

Hong Kong

Post Number: 3
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 11:36 am:

Hi Danman,
One more question. I have heard that C272 is better than C352 in terms of sound quality. How significant the difference is? As the C272 costs US$120 more than a C352 in my domestic market. Thanks.

Silver Member

Username: Danman

QUEBEC
CANADA

Post Number: 555
Registered: Apr-04

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 11:44 am:

I find that strange that NAD would say that when they have a review stating the opposite!!!! It may be the C270 and C350 but essentially, they are the same: Have a look

http://www.nadelectronics.com/reviews/C270-0901_framset.htm

I personnaly think that using 2 integreted amps to do what you want to do not necessrily a good idea. If you use the C272 with the variable input, you can adjust the amount of volume to keep sound pressures at the same levels for your highs and lows. Also, the C272 is a great way to update for future use if ever you want to expand on that by adding a second one (like I have) and a seperate pre-amp. This will be even better if you bridge them. It is up to you as both would work just can't understand why they would tell not to do this!

Silver Member

Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire
UK

Post Number: 914
Registered: Sep-04

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 12:53 pm:

Eddie

If you bought the C272 you would use just this power amp - forget biamping. This is because the C272's performance envelope is well beyond that of the power amp in the C352. If you biamp using the 352's power amp as well, all you're doing is suffering the lack of control by comparison to the C272.

You can connect the C272 to the C352 according to NAD's website:

http://www.nadelectronics.com/hifi_amplifiers/C352_framset.htm

Regards,
Frank.

Silver Member

Username: Danman

QUEBEC
CANADA

Post Number: 557
Registered: Apr-04

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 02:27 pm:

I agree Frank but the gain (I believe 28db) is the same therefore he would be able to do it. Also, Frank may be right by just using the 352 as a pre-amp only. You could try both methods and let your ears decide.

I still find it odd that NAD would not reccomend this to him when they have two posts in their website telling us how to do it!

New member

Username: Eddietfman

Hong Kong

Post Number: 4
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 09:34 pm:

Hi there!
Thank you very much for all your comments & advices. I am strange too as to why NAD answered me differently than what their literatures told. Here is a recap of what I asked and what they answered:

I asked:
I am thinking to expand my C352 integrated amp by adding an external power amp for bi-amping. On your official literature, you suggest a C272 for its identical amplification factor (gain) as the C352 is.....Other than the amplification factor (gain), what else technical factors are critical too to be considered, for bi-amping? Another question. Is the power amp section of C352 bridgeable?

Replied by NAD:
What literature are you referring to?

Bridge 272 with 372 ONLY
Bi-amp 272 with 372 as these have the same gain.

C352 does not have the same gain as C272.

The C352 is not bridgeable.

End of quote

Is the reply from NAD questionable? Any comments from you folks out there would be appreciated.

bumblebee

Bronze Member

Username: Bumblebee

Post Number: 31
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 01:55 am:

C320BEE, C352, C372 and C272 have the same gain. Check the specs.

Was it a Karen who replied?

New member

Username: Eddietfman

Hong Kong

Post Number: 5
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 02:04 am:

Yes, its she, Karen, who replied me. I was first asking for bi-amping my C352 with C320BEE and then C272, but she replied to me that neither C320BEE nor C272 was a compatible match for this purpose, but the C372+C272 only. I was very strange to her this reply.

bumblebee

Bronze Member

Username: Bumblebee

Post Number: 32
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 04:21 am:

You can biamp the C320BEE and C352 (thanks to the pre-out/main-in) but you'll be wasting one pre-amp section.

Seems like Karen isn't into technical stuff.

New member

Username: Eddietfman

Hong Kong

Post Number: 7
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 05:38 am:

Thanks bumblebee for your advice.

Silver Member

Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire
UK

Post Number: 919
Registered: Sep-04

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 11:18 am:

The fact remains that the C272 is a far better power amp than that in the C352. Therefore you would be better off single-amping with just the 272. The power suply in the 352 would then be dedicated to driving just the preamp which will benefit that. All the frequency range would benefit from the superior performance of the C272 if you single amp.

Another alternative may be even better. Buy a C162 and use the C352 as power amp only, if this is possible. Provided the speakers aren't difficult to drive, then this would be preferable to c352/c272 since the preamp stage in the C352 is no great shakes whjereas the C162 is miles better. Provided, of course, you can use the C352 as a power amp only...

Regards,
Frank.

Silver Member

Username: Danman

QUEBEC
CANADA

Post Number: 562
Registered: Apr-04

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 11:22 am:

Yes it can be used for that.

New member

Username: Eddietfman

Hong Kong

Post Number: 8
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 11:38 am:

Thanks Frank for your advice.

I will seriously consider adding a C272, hooping up with the pre-amp section of my C352 for single amping. While I do not want to leave the power amp section of the C352 idle, I am thinking if I use one channel of its power amp to drive the center channel of my home theatre system, that being said, the center channel pre-out of my Marantz SR-5400 A/V Receiver connects to one channel of the power amp of C352 and then to drive the centre speaker, when watching movie. By doing so, when watching movie, my C352's pre-amp connects to C272 for front channel speakers, one channel of its power amp is to drive center speaker. The C352's master volume control is to tune the volume of front speaker; whereas the master volume control of my SR-5400 A/V Receiver is to tune the volumes of center and rear speakers. Will this work? Any experiences/comments/advices to share from you folks out there would be appreciated.

Silver Member

Username: Frank_abela

Berkshire
UK

Post Number: 924
Registered: Sep-04

Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 11:12 am:

Eddie

I think the power section of the 352 is disconnected from the preamp section when you attach the C272. So the volume for the centre speaker would still be under the control of the Marantz which is a good thing since you don't want to be messing around with the levels once the system is setup.

There is no problem with leaving the power amp section idle on the 352. The power amp sees an infinite load and simply doesn't atempt to drive anything, which allows the power supply to drive the preamp better...

Regards,
Frank.

New member

Username: Eddietfman

Hong Kong

Post Number: 9
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 12:18 pm:

Hi Frank,

Thanks for your advice. Upgrading my pre-amp by acquiring a C162 seems another option, even better, for me. I have heard that NAD's amp mates with their own CD player will provide synergy effect. So I am thinking that what about if I change my CD player from the current one, Philips CD-951 (1-bit DAC), to NAD's C542 (24-bit DAC) CD player; while leaving my C352 fully working as an integrated as is. Will the change of CD player provide better improvement than that of change of the pre-amp to C162? Any comments/advise would be appreciated.