Onkyo TX-SR503 or SONY STR-DE898

New member

Username: Hontvn

Post Number: 1
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 05:59 pm:

Hi there,

I want to buy a receiver, I come up with 2 receivers after several days searching Internet:
1. Onkyo TX-SR503
2. Sony STR-DE898

They are all 7.1 model, Onkyo is 75W per channel while 100W for Sony. Sony is 2 zones, but Onkyo.
In general, Sony model has more features than Onkyo, but Onkyo is well-known for receiver.

Please help me to make the decision.

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Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
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Post Number: 2227
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 06:08 pm:

Neither one, especially not the Sony. The only thing Sony still does well is tube TVs nowadays.

Onkyo is well known for overrating its receivers' "watts per channel" just like Sony and Yamaha.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm?20055

Instead I would look at the all-digital Panasonic sa-xr55, which outperforms analog receivers several times its price. See the huge thread on it here in this Receivers section.

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 434
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 06:11 pm:

Onkyo out of those two for sure. I own an older model TX-SR500 that works well enough for my purposes. More information about your situation would be helpful though in determining what would be a good match for your purposes, eg what you listen to, room size, what speakers they will be paired with, etc.

New member

Username: Hontvn

Post Number: 2
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 07:12 pm:

My room is quite small (4m x 6m), I intended to buy the Onkyo HT240 speakers system ... my interest between film and music is 50/50.

I see some good reviews for HT240, and its price is reasonable.

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 436
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 07:26 pm:

I don't think you could go too far wrong with the Onkyo, but others might disagree. The Panny might make a good choice, but I havn't listened to it to know. Have you listened to any of these receivers by any chance? That would be the first step towards making a decision.

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Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
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Post Number: 2230
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 08:22 pm:

How much are you paying for that Onkyo HT240? Pricegrabber.com shows $350 as lowest price, at vanns.com

Since you say you're doing 50% music, I would stay away from any packaged speaker systems. There is simply no comparison against even cheap separate speakers, and the subwoofers they give you in any HTIB are generally total garbage. You can do much much better for maybe an extra $100:

Here's a much better alternative: Athena AS-B1 speakers, $200 for 2 pairs and Athena AS-C1 center for $100 so you'd be paying $300 for 5 speakers.

Add $145 shipped for the 12" Dayton powered subwoofer from partsexpress.com and you'd easily blow that Onkyo HTIB setup out of the water.

Sure those Onkyos are small and pretty-looking but you don't look at speakers, you listen to them...don't fall for the "big sound in a tiny package" marketing BS. Physics is physics, tiny little speakers like that are good for impressing ditsy housewives and that's about it.

That digital Panny is available at Circuit City, buy it and return it if you don't like it. Read up on what all the buzz is about, if anything deserves the term "giant-killer" this is it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=530504

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=417894

mojoed

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Username: Mojoracer

Post Number: 8
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 10:55 pm:

Circuit City carries both Onkyo and the panny. See what you like better....

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Username: Hontvn

Post Number: 3
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 12:51 am:

Thanks all for your valuable inputs ... I definitely won't go with SONY. Will consider the alternative for speakers that Edster922 suggested.

If anyone has chance to compare the sound quality between Onkyo 503 and Panny XR70 / XR55, please let me know your opinion.

I see Panny XR70 as top seller in B&H. Some differences that I realized:
- Panasonic XR70: 100W for both Stereo and surround mode; 0.09% TDH; 6.1 ; Digital Output
- Onkyo 503: 75W for surround mode, 95W for stereo mode; 0.08% TDH; 7.1; Not support digital output

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2235
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 09:40 am:

Don't worry about the watts per channel numbers, these are usually inflated anyways especially for low-end analog receivers.

The xr70 has HDMI and the xr55 does not; the xr55 has binding posts for all speakers while the xr70 has them only for the front 2 channels. HDMI is not a real important feature IMO unless you have a plasma/LCD/DLP that has HDMI connections...again this is mainly a gadget-geek feature rather than anything essential. It's useful to distinguish between all the gadget-geek features that most manufacturers (esp. the Japanese ones) try to push these days versus actual sound quality---gadget geek features (like 10,000 different "sound processing" modes) rarely have any impact on real SQ whatsoever.

If you go to your local Circuit City you'll find that they are having trouble keeping the xr55 in stock, too.

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2240
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 09:54 am:

PS. I forgot to mention that the Athenas are not available at Best Buy anymore, you can get them online at audioadvisor.com which is a very reputable dealer.

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 438
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 11:25 am:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/1117200314244.pdf

These are older models, but you will get the general idea of how these receivers perform in terms of power delivery.

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2245
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 04:35 pm:

Interesting stuff, DA. I had no idea the Yammie was a far worse paper tiger than the Onkyo.

I think the xr55 is way more improved to the xr25, that was a truly first-wave quasi-experimental model.

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 439
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 04:55 pm:

It is important to point out that it is rare that all five channels will be driven to the max as in that test; in addition it may not be such a bad thing to some users that the Yammie and Onkyo do have a protection scheme in case there is a maniac at the volume control. And of course as we all know the difference in volume is minimal among those wattages.

Now what would really seperate the men from the boys though would be 5 channels into a 4 ohm load or better yet a hard dynamic load at clipping. Of course I doubt any of the above mentioned receivers would fair all too well in that test.

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2248
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 05:05 pm:

I don't know about the xr25 but the xr55 has been known to drive 4 ohm Maggies w/o a problem.

I can believe this because my (conservatively rated 100wpc) NAD separates are 4 ohm compatible and during A/B testing the xr55 definitely outpowered them.

I'm telling you, this all-digital technology is really a whole different ballgame...

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 440
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 05:17 pm:

What kind of peak volumes were you reaching for this comparison? You mentioned 95dB volume before, but that shouldn't really strain either system, particularly with the Ascends which don't appear horribly difficult to drive.

mojoed

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Username: Mojoracer

Post Number: 9
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 09:10 pm:

I read an Audiophile professional review about the Onkyo 602, and the guy said he was able to drive 4 and 6 ohm speakers really well. he was surprised at how well it performed. Last week sometime. Anyway...

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 441
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 09:36 pm:

LOL. Fine reference there mojo. Actually the 601 did receive a favorable review from Audioholics way back when, which also said it could drive 4 ohm speakers respectably. They tested it with the top of the line Axiom speaker and it held up at least.

However, one must also keep in mind that the nominal impedance of a speaker is only one indicator as to how hard a speaker is to drive.

Eric Ramsey

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Username: Eramsey

South carolina
United States

Post Number: 324
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 09:41 pm:

Ho, If you can spend $350 this amount can get you an HK AVR 235 or a lower end Marantz which will be much better than the Onkyo or Yammie for movies and especially music. Never mind the wattage ratings like Edster said Onkyo and Yamaha inflate their numbers for their lower end models while HK and Marantz do not.

Art Kyle

Gold Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 1793
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 10:07 pm:

I disgree Eric I just listened to the HK AVR 235 against the Yamaha RX-V657 and came home with the Yamaha. Their sound quality was very close in quality. The HK was a bit warmer and the Yamaha seemed more neutral to me. Lots of critical acclaim for the little Yamaha.

You are right about Yamaha and Onkyo inflating numbers but the HK AVR 235 is rated at 50 watts and the Yamaha at 95. The test bench (Sound and Vision) found that the Yamaha was delivering around 70 all channels driven which is still more than the HK and since they are the same price it's a no brainer.

I used both receivers with the same speakers NHT's and 2 levels of Energy's. Neither of the receivers had the grunt to successfully drive the NHT's (86db efficiency) to ear splitting levels without running out of gas and sounding consricted. Both successfully drove the Energy lines. Neither sounded particularly good (or bad for that matter)with the 4k floorstanders. Probably not fair to use speakers that cost 10 times more than the receivers for an audition. Both receivers sounded very good with the 2k Energy Reference Connoisseur floorstanders but this is where the Yamaha's neutrality showed very nicely. It's all going to depend on the listener's preferences.

Eric Ramsey

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Username: Eramsey

South carolina
United States

Post Number: 325
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 10:17 pm:

Your absolutely correct DA. The Onkyo was able to drive the Axioms because they have a high sensitivity, about 92 dBl I think, and also are an effecient design. A 4 Ohm rated speaker with a low sensitivitry, less than 88dBl is a totally different ballgame,however. For the most part speaker specs are fairly meaningless as I have agreed and discussed this with other members of this forum. I do think though that a speakers rated sensitivity is a spec that has some merit as this is an electrical measurement and has nothing to do with sound quality, imaging etc. Anyway, I know this is the receivers section so I won't drift from the subject any longer.

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2250
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 11:29 pm:

DA,

> You mentioned 95dB volume before, but that shouldn't really strain either system, particularly with the Ascends which don't appear horribly difficult to drive.

No the Ascends are very easy to drive, but at 95db I could easily begin to hear the NAD's analog limitations emerge in the form of slight loss of detail due to submerged distortion, whereas the Panny just coasted through just as crystal clear and silky smooth as it was at 70db. When compared to the Marantz at 95db the music lost a lot of fullness, started to sound a bit hollow.

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 442
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 11:41 pm:

Interesting results. Gotta love this hobby though when you find a $230 Panny whips high end NAD and very respectable Marantz. Either way, I'll save my judgements on the matter until I can hear it side by side with a few other receivers.

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2256
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 12:23 am:

Yeah, to be honest I was not real surprised that the Panny bested the Marantz but the NAD too? My jaw was on the floor for hours...

Somehow reminds me of that famous scene in "Indiana Jones" when Harrison Ford is confronted by a swordmaster who does all these beautifully intricate, menacing movements with his sword, and Ford just pulls out his revolver and bang! it's over.

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Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 2572
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 12:32 am:

Then again, eddie probably prefers the popcorn flavored jelly belly over very cherry, so I wouldnt put too much stock in his preference.

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2259
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 12:58 am:

Sorry Paul, I am completely lost by your junk food metaphors. Try again.

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2260
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 12:59 am:

BTW Paul, how come you've never answered my question about tuna tacos in that "Movies" thread?

Gold Member

Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 2574
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 09:43 am:

I guess maybe since Im well past the age of 17,(which is the age punk kids go on and on about this topic) I dont feel the need to discuss that in this forum as you do. I guess I've outgrown my punk kid stage in life, and you havent.

New member

Username: Hontvn

Post Number: 4
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 08:28 pm:

I'm just a newbie to audio ... can HKTS 14 speaker system best fit to HK AVR 235? Or should I go with Edster's suggestion (Athena's)?

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 443
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 08:35 pm:

I would stick with the Athena's; you might also take a look at an online company called Fluance which is highly rated at that price point.

Gold Member

Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 2589
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 08:37 pm:

Ho,
Dont buy any speakers without auditioning them in person first. Just because one person likes the sound of a certain speaker, doesnt mean you will too. What one person thinks sounds appealing compared to another person can be as dramatic as night and day.

Buying speakers is easy....
1.Listen to several
2.buy whatever sounds best within your budget

New member

Username: Hontvn

Post Number: 5
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 08:45 pm:

I also found some other speaker system within my budget: Polk Audio 6700, Infinity 450/750.

How about the Cambridge SoundWorks? Can I go with MovieWorks 106? http://cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=spk_package

Seems to me that the CSW is good for movie only ... I've ever been in CSW shop in Burlington Mall once, and quite impressed with the sound.

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Username: Paul_ohstbucks

Post Number: 2592
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 08:47 pm:

Like I said before........ listen to them for yourself and then YOU decide what sounds good for movies only, or for both.

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 444
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 09:00 pm:

As I own CSW speakers, I am personally favorable to them. If you like them, get them from Ebay as CSW does sell their B-stock their at much better prices and still with a full warranty.

As for that particular package, I would try to get the 108 or better instead, or better yet just get a set of fronts + center and a good sub, and buy surrounds later.

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2279
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 12:39 am:

Ho,

The Polk and Infinity HTIB speakers are some of the better ones around, but remember that you're going to get a crappy subwoofer with them and generally lower quality than buying your speakers separately. After all Polk and Infinity have to make money, AND the dealers who are reselling them have to make money. With Internet-direct speakers you are only paying for ONE markup, the manufacturer's so certainly much better bang for your buck.

Hell, if immediate cash flow is a big issue with you I'd just buy the best front mains and subwoofer you can afford right now, then add the center speaker in a few months time, and then add cheap (or not cheap) surrounds afterwards.

Packaged speakers have a way of ending up on eBay within a year or so, especially if you happen to listen to somebody else's good speakers afterwards.

As for buying Internet direct, yes you are taking a small chance but they all have refund trial periods. The thing to do is just order one pair of bookshelves from them, so it'll be cheaper (usually no more than $15-20) to ship back if you don't like them. That's less than some small shops' restocking fees.

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Username: Hontvn

Post Number: 6
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 11:04 am:

Thanks Edtster ... I'm going to BestBuy shop to listen to Athena's. I probably go with your recommendation.
Beside the Dayton subwoofer, can you recommend some more popular subwoofer ones with acceptable quality and reasonable price?

Art Kyle

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Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 1807
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 03:40 pm:

Hsu

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Username: Hontvn

Post Number: 7
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 05:06 pm:

I'm going to order the Athena AS-B1 (4) and AS-C1 (1). And still looking for a sub, maybe the Dayton 12". What is the best Receiver listed below to drive this system?
1 - Panansonic SA-XR55 (~ 250$)
2 - Onkyo TX-SR503 (~ 280$)
3 - HK AVR 235 (~ 330$)

Is it worth to spend 80$ extra to get the HK AVR 235 instead of Panny SA-XR55?

Appreciated your help!!!

Stof

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Username: Chitown

Post Number: 338
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 05:09 pm:

HSU for sure

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Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 449
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 05:18 pm:

What is your price range for the sub?

As for the receivers, take your pick. All will have ample power to drive your system to high volumes; more importantly Athena's aren't known for being hard to drive. After that it comes down to personal preference in sound.

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Username: Edster922

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Post Number: 2289
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 07:50 pm:

As much as I like Harman Kardon, I would take the Panny's pure digital technology. Put the savings into a better subwoofer than the Dayton if possible, for instance the Hsu STF-2 at $400 would be a fine choice.

Art Kyle

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Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 1811
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 08:31 pm:

That HK sounds very nice and would be my choice of the 2 receivers.

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 450
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 09:45 pm:

PS. Ecost has the Onkyo 503 for $169 factory refurbished.

Bugs

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Username: Bunny

Big D, Texas

Post Number: 31
Registered: May-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 10:36 pm:

I think the HK would be my choice as well.
Good luck

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Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
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Post Number: 2295
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 10:56 pm:

Ho,

Another thing to consider is, what % of your use is HT versus music?

Most of the criticism of the Panny and other all-digitals is the claim that analog receivers have a "warmer" and/or more "musical" sound..."warm" vs. "bright" being a longstanding topic of much debate in audioville, and recognized as basically a matter of subjective taste.

With HT however, I think a "warm" sound might actually be detrimental because during a movie I WANT to hear every subtle detail as clearly as possible, whereas with certain types of music, a certain amount of fuzziness around the edges can sometimes be very enjoyable.

So if you are primarily a music lover who likes "warmth," you MAY prefer the Harman Kardon. However if you are buying this system mainly to watch movies then you'll be happier with the Panny IMHO, plus have extra cash left over to invest in a better sub like that Hsu which you'll get a lot more enjoyment out of especially if you like action movies that have lots of LFE.

New member

Username: Hontvn

Post Number: 8
Registered: Sep-05

Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 01:50 am:

Thanks all, esp. Edster ... I think I know what i should go with now :-)

.

BTW, CSW has MovieWorks 106 open-box for ~200$ only. Quite a good deal ...