Ling Bookshelf Vrs Ling Single

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 213
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 06:24 pm:

I would like to hear a little commentary, preferably from the designer himself, as to the pros and cons of the Ling Single and the Ling Bookshelf as they relate to each other. They have very similar specifications excepting that one is a single driver speaker with its associated advantages and disadvantages, and the other is a semi classic two way bookshelf design. I suppose my main question is why choose the Ling Bookshelf over the Ling Single?

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 1633
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:17 pm:

and Tim (I may've asked you this before), how do you think your speakers would sound with a pure digital receiver like a Panasonic sa-xr55? I was thinking that the incredible detail of a pure digital would be well balanced with the incredible warmth of the Lings.

Silver Member

Username: T_bomb25

Dayton, Ohio
United States

Post Number: 751
Registered: Jun-05

Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:32 pm:

Yeah DA that is very interresting,Eddie is that Pany really that good,have you heard it yet?

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 1643
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 12:18 am:

no I haven't Tawaun but I did hear a hybrid digital JVC rx-f10 which was extremely impressive especially for a mere $200.

Silver Member

Username: T_bomb25

Dayton, Ohio
United States

Post Number: 755
Registered: Jun-05

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 12:33 am:

Eddie how did its sound stack to something like the 320bee?

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 1644
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 02:00 am:

Zero noise floor, crystal clear, this is an audio cliche but I really did hear tons of sonic detail I had never heard before, entire 2-3 seconds of notes in some cases.

I never had a chance to AB against the 320bee but if my aural memory is anywhere in the ballpark I'd say that what the JVC gave up in warmth it more than made up in detail and spaciousness.

Silver Member

Username: T_bomb25

Dayton, Ohio
United States

Post Number: 758
Registered: Jun-05

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 02:05 am:

Pretty impressive the right source and speaker can add that warmth,I guess thats why you have been thinking about the Panny and the Lings.

Silver Member

Username: Timn8ter

Seattle, WA
USA

Post Number: 487
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 09:10 pm:

Hi guys. Thanks for the question. I almost missed this thread entirely. Glad I didn't. It does seem odd that I offer two speakers that are so closely related. The advantage of the Ling over the Single is one of dynamics and dispersion. Whenever you reduce the range a driver has to cover you increase it's ability to react to frequency changes. The big plus of a single driver system is it's coherency. The big minus is that it's very difficult for one driver to be producing a relatively low bass signal at the same time it's producing the sound of a twinkling bell. If you offer that driver assistance at either end (maybe even both ends) you get an increase in dynamics. The other downside to using a relatively large diameter cone as a tweeter is it's tendency to beam at those upper frequencies. By passing that duty off to a helper tweeter you gain better dispersion of the highs.

Silver Member

Username: Timn8ter

Seattle, WA
USA

Post Number: 488
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 09:14 pm:

Oh yeah, the other question. I did have the opportunity to use a set of Goldmundt amps with the Lings at our local audio society meeting. It was a very good match-up and I would expect other digital amps to work well also. I have a friend overseas that sells Flying Mole amps and he's pretty excited about this match-up as well.

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 232
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 09:26 pm:

Given that the Ling Bookshelf possesses a 1st order xo and isn't crossed until 10kHz, would you say the coherency lost by being a two way design as compared with the Ling Single is minimal?

As for the Ling Single, what was your design goal? A lower priced product for line extension or a serious attempt at a competent 1 driver speaker, or both?

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 233
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 09:29 pm:

Also if the existance of the Ling Single is just to offer a lower priced product, how would you say a vinyl wrapped version (as opposed to the standard wood veneer) of the Ling Bookshelf would have compared both in price and performance?

Silver Member

Username: T_bomb25

Dayton, Ohio
United States

Post Number: 764
Registered: Jun-05

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:38 pm:

Thats a good point DA,but I think he is going after Omegas and Lowther horn crowd,but the senstivity kinda puts that in question though.

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 1666
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:18 pm:

Tim,

so from what you're saying would I be wrong to take it that Ling Singles crossed over with a subwoofer should offer about the same performance pros and cons as Ling Bookshelves with no sub?

Silver Member

Username: Timn8ter

Seattle, WA
USA

Post Number: 489
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:42 pm:

The original intent of the two products was to offer a single driver solution for those who would rather give up the top octave for the benefits of a completely crossoverless design. Originally the Ling and the Ling Single both used the same driver. With the development of the full range version of the 4.5" driver I'm using I upgraded the Ling Single to that driver. The Ling still has more high end performance and better dynamics though at first listen those differences are not very apparent.
Yes, sensitivity is an issue for those that use low power SET amps but there are lots of speakers for them. Higher power tube amp/full range driver afficianados no longer have to settle for large cabinets for their single driver wants. However, it does also depend on how loud you want to play music. For many of the same low power amp users 80 to 85db is plenty. It's simply another option for the market.
I think for a small home theater setup 5 (or more) Ling Singles and a sub is pretty decent. How many people have ALL IDENTICAL speakers in their home theaters?
The issue of cabinet finish is a very debatable topic and that debate is occurring in my head at this moment. There sure are a lot of vinyl wrapped and painted cabinets out there that people are happy to pay for. If I decide to offer that option I think it would have to be for both products.

Silver Member

Username: Timn8ter

Seattle, WA
USA

Post Number: 490
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:44 pm:

Edster,
Looking at your question again I see I didn't answer it. The low end frequency response for both models is the same. The difference is higher up.

Silver Member

Username: Devils_advocate

Post Number: 235
Registered: Jul-05

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:54 pm:

"How many people have ALL IDENTICAL speakers in their home theaters?"

Lots! Bose sells such packages for example :-)

In any event, I thank you for your time and answers Tim. Good luck with your venture.

Gold Member

Username: Edster922

Abubala, Ababala
The Occupation

Post Number: 1668
Registered: Mar-05

Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 12:00 am:

Tim,

do you mean that the Bookshelf is a better speaker all around than the Single? Are there any sound performance advantages of the Single over the Bookshelf at all?

Silver Member

Username: Timn8ter

Seattle, WA
USA

Post Number: 491
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 08:02 am:

Only that it's possible to pick out the tweeter on the Lings which is possible with any two-way speaker.
The single driver afficianados will argue that the completely crossoverless single point source is preferable.

Jan Vigne

Gold Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 5348
Registered: May-04

Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 10:04 am:

Afficianados! Those b@stards!