| Author |
Thread: Speaker Advice for a Rock & Roll fan |
    
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| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 05:38 pm: |
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Hello everybody. I could use a little help in deciding which speakers to look at for my HT and for music. I'm starting out with a modest Onkyo TX-SR500 receiver, which will hopefully be upgraded in the future. I plan to just start with a single pair of speakers in a stereo setup, sans subwoofer for now. I largely listen to 70s-80s rock, with perhaps a little HT usage. I wouldn't say I am an audiophile, but I have an idea how to listen for quality. I do like a little emphasis on bass, but I don't want to deal with boomy bloated bass like my previous subwoofer offered. Of course I would like crystal clear highs and mids too. Unfortunately, my budget is a little weak for my demands at $500. Also, the room it will be in is the loft of a townhouse. Dimensions are 12x18 with a vaulted ceiling between 8 and 15 feet in height (probably an average of 11 feet). I have carpeted floors, but no drapery to speak of. Any help would be appreciated. |
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Silver Member Username: Virus5877
West Lafayette,
Indiana
USA
Post Number: 153
Registered: Apr-05
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| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 06:06 pm: |
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I'd probably go with the Fluance SM-938's
go to www.fluancespeakers.com
for $540 a pair, you're not gonna find much better floorstanding speakers. plus, they have large, 10 inch subwoofers built into them, so you probably won't need a separate sub unless you desire to play some hip hop. |
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| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 06:20 pm: |
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How does their build quality fare against the stuff from something like Best Buy? I think I could probably punch a hole into most of their floorstanders with moderate effort... |
ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 06:51 pm: |
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I feel like I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but if you can splurge a little more, the Energy Connoisseur C-5s are great inexpensive floorstanders with very good, tight bass (no bloating whatsoever). They list for $750/pr, but are usually available between $550-600 from authorized dealers if you're willing to haggle with them. |
Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 07:11 pm: |
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I just went through the exact same situation, with about the same requirements, demands and budget.
I did a lot of research and received a lot of good advise from the audiophiles on this site.
I narrowed my search down to JBL E80/E100s, Energy C-5s and Athena AS-F2.2s before finally deciding on the Athena AS-F2.2s, which I ordered yesterday and will be receiving next week. I spent a couple of weeks of research to come to this decision, maybe this will save you some time of doing the same. I can report back next week how the Athena's sound if you would like...
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ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 07:17 pm: |
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It should be noted that Athena and Energy (and Mirage) are all part of the same company. I believe there is some crossover of technology between the brands, although some things are proprietary of each. |
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| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 07:31 pm: |
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If you wouldnt mind shermanez, I would be interested to hear how they sound. I would be interested to hear how well they are built as well. I havn't had good impressions of many cheap speakers, particularly when their side walls flex noticably with a simple knuckle rap test. |
Silver Member Username: Eramsey
South carolina
United States
Post Number: 218
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 09:01 pm: |
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Check out www.dcmspeakers.com. These are very affordable speakers that are very sensitive and will play very loudly. The cabinets are 5/8" internally braced mdf so you can slam your knuckles to you hearts content on them until they are very sore,no flex with these. I've had mine for years. They are a great sounding inexpensive speaker. Expect tight bass, clear highs , they are a little lacking in midrange but not anything dramatic. Athough far from an audiophile floorstander like Tannoy, Triangle or B&W, they will absolutely rock for home theater or rock music.
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Silver Member Username: Eramsey
South carolina
United States
Post Number: 219
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 09:14 pm: |
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I'll also mention that they are American made in Michigan. The are best paired with a quality receiver such as HK,NAD, Marantz or Denon. I've heard many types of speakers,both expensive and inexpensive and IMO they are one of the best sounding inexpensive speakers made. |
Silver Member Username: Eramsey
South carolina
United States
Post Number: 220
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 09:17 pm: |
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Anon, I'm sorry I forgot that you had an Onkyo but the DCM's should sound great with this receiver as well. |
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| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 09:56 pm: |
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The price of the DCM's is right for sure, and its specs look solid (as solid as anything I suppose). Do they largely do internet sales because I didn't note a point on their site for finding dealers, and I didn't find much on a google search for them. I have actually heard of them loosely since I've actually seen some where I go to college.
I've looked at a few speakers in person, eg KLH, Sony, Klipsch Synergy Series (those are the ones that flexed), and Cambridge Soundworks (I own a couple and they are decent; their prices have gone way up though). I also looked at a few more expensive models at a shop called Andersons where they had various KEF and NHT models. I wasn't particularly impressed by them despite their cost. Of course, I don't have terribly discerning tastes and the program material was exclusively HT.
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Silver Member Username: Eramsey
South carolina
United States
Post Number: 221
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 10:48 pm: |
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Yes they are very agreeably priced. On their website in the past you could punch in your zipcode and it would list your closest dealer but the have changed that apparently. Call them and I'm sure they could assist you. The DCM 26 model won an award from a Hi Fi mag in 2001. DCM speakers although probably not as good as the Energy are definately better than the likes of Sony and KLH. I've heard good reports about the Fluance speakers as well but they are not very sensitive and would not give you as much volume. As I've stated in another section of this forum if you mostly into HT, large floorstanders with a decent size woofer, at least 2 8" woofers or better a 10" or 12" is the way to go for the most impact. Pair them with a strong sub and you have as good a sound as your local theater, just not not quite as loud. Any way good luck to you and I hope you find what your looking for. |
ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 11:53 pm: |
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Eric... 8"+ woofers maybe 5-10 years ago, but today's speakers can do a lot more with a lot less. My Energy C-5s (w/ 6.5" woofer) are rated to 36hz with usable bass extension to 30 hz, and many other speakers are comparable. And if you're going to use a separate (good!) sub, it really doesn't matter. I still roll off my C-5s at 80hz and let the sub do the rest, even though they do a great job w/o a sub. |
Silver Member Username: Eramsey
South carolina
United States
Post Number: 223
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 12:00 am: |
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It's more a matter of physics Ziggy. You can move more air with a 10" woofer than 3- 6" woofers.
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ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 12:08 am: |
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I know Eric.... there's something to be said for surface area. But longer throws and better materials have made smaller woofers signicantly more competent at handling bass than, say, 10 years ago. But there is definitely something to be said for the controlled bass response of a smaller woofer compared to the 10-12" variety. Granted, it's something noticed more in jazz and classical, but it does make a difference in classic rock, too |
Silver Member Username: Eramsey
South carolina
United States
Post Number: 225
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 12:13 am: |
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I agree Ziggy. With many types of music a smaller woofer that is able to handle transients much faster is more desirable. A lot of high action movies with tremendous amounts of LFE will sound best(most impact) with large drivers. |
ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 12:28 am: |
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Agreed, Eric.. but if you're using a sub, does it really matter? I guess it depends what you're using the speakers for... I prefer the musicality and don't push my speakers to the bottom of their range. Even so, the issue of range vs. control is a big one, especially since Anon commented on the bloated bass of his old sub, and music appears to be a priority for him. |
Silver Member Username: Eramsey
South carolina
United States
Post Number: 226
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 12:49 am: |
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OK I read anon's post again. He should probably go with a good sub -bookshelf system then. |
Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucks
Post Number: 1326
Registered: Jan-05
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| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 01:48 am: |
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You might want to ignore the unregistered 'responses' in this forum.
If they dont care enough about audio to register in this forum, how can you trust their opinion?? |
ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 09:30 am: |
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Why is that Paul? You've proven over and over again that registered members can be ignorant jerk0ffs, so why should a registered poster's opinion carry any more weight than a non-registered poster? And if you can somehow figure out the direct correlation between loving audio and filling out a stupid online registration form, I'd love to see it. It's not like I don't use the same name every time, anyway. |
ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 10:44 am: |
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Paul,
I apologize. I realize that Im an ignorant fool, and that this forum would be better served if I registered. Maybe I'll keep my infantile comments to myself in the future. |
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| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:02 am: |
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Is there a quality subwoofer that could fit into this price range with a pair of bookshelf speakers? Of course I suppose I could do what I did to my old sub and stuff it full of polyfill to tighten it up. |
ZiggyZoggyOiOiOi Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:05 am: |
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Wow Paul, you're SO cool. Can I be like you when I grow up? How old were you when you stopped sleeping in mommy's bed, Paul? Or are you still sleeping there? There is no one more infantile than yourself on this board. You're a worthless troll.
And I know that this will be followed by something even more childish, written by you and attributed to me. What's it going to be Paul? Do I eat boogers? Do I have bizarre $exual fantasies that your little mind dreams up? I can't wait to see.
But ultimately I don't care. Unlike you and your 1300+ posts belittling everybody who has a different opinion, I have a life. And it's a VERY good one. And if I ever have to act like you to gain satisfaction from my life, I'll put a bullet through my brain. |
Silver Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 897
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:06 am: |
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Ouch! |
Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucks
Post Number: 1346
Registered: Jan-05
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| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:12 am: |
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I was simply demonstrating why it's a good idea to register if you plan to participate in a forum. And no, I wont stoop to the infantile level to respond 'in kind' to the previous message. |
Silver Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 899
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:21 am: |
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Ziggy you are right that unregistered posters contribute as much as registered ones, however Paul is right that to protect yourself from folks who would pretend to be you, registration really is a good idea. I hope you do register and stick around for awhile. |
New member Username: Ziggyzoggyoioi
Outside Philadelphia,
PA
Post Number: 1
Registered: Jun-05
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| Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:55 am: |
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Fair enough Art... I do intend to stick around for a while |
Silver Member Username: Twebbz
Ann Arbor,
Michigan
USA
Post Number: 132
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 10:10 pm: |
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I have the Athena AS-F2s driven by a NAD C370 and the AS-F1s driven by a Rotel RX-1052. What do you want to know? |
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| Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 12:05 am: |
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How well are they built? What is the thickness of the cabinet? How well are they braced internally? Any damping material? What is the quality of the crossover (polypropylene film caps, etc?) How do they sound? Can they deliver a truckload of tight bass for rock and roll? Do they have great mids and highs? I think thats a good start. |
Silver Member Username: Twebbz
Ann Arbor,
Michigan
USA
Post Number: 133
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 09:13 am: |
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First, I have the Series ONE and they are no longer available. They are now into version two. My Athenas are very well made, fit and finish is impecable. They are solid and VERY heavy. I have not taken them apart to analyze their construction, damping material, or crossover network. The weight of SERIES TWO has been reduced to facilitate shipment but a representative from Athena told me that they are still very solid and well braced. My AS-F2s are very well suited to ROCK and that is my choice of music 75% of the time. Bass is very SOLID, deep, controlled and authoritative. The midrange is clear and very detailed with great punch. The Athenas are very transparent speakers to the point of revealing the inferiorities of recordings. In other words, bad recordings sound bad and good recordings sound good. Many Rock and POP CD recordings have a hot treble mix and the Athenas will not mask that and you will hear sibilance. If there is no bass in the recording the Athenas will not add it. If you want speakers that will give you TRUE reproduction of your source material then these are your speakers, otherwise look elsewhere. The Athena AS-F1s sound the same but don't have the dynamic capability to fill a large room with sound like the AS-F2s. The AS-F2s can blow your windows out if that's what you want.
If you have any questions about the AUDITION SERIES TWO, go to www.athenaspeakers.com and ask them. They respond almost immediately to all all questions and are very helpfull. |
Silver Member Username: Twebbz
Ann Arbor,
Michigan
USA
Post Number: 134
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 09:55 am: |
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P.S....At $500 a pair for the Athena AS-F2.2 at www.audioadvisor.com you CANNOT do better, Period. |
Silver Member Username: Twebbz
Ann Arbor,
Michigan
USA
Post Number: 136
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 08:47 am: |
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...and ANON, you may want to try LISTENING to speakers BEFORE you go bashing your fist against their cabinets. |
Silver Member Username: Danman
QUEBEC
CANADA
Post Number: 199
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 09:26 am: |
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Wow! People around here are due for a vacation. I have noticed that there is a lot of bickering going on! Calm down people......everybody is allowed their opinion. The word respect comes into play here! |
Silver Member Username: Twebbz
Ann Arbor,
Michigan
USA
Post Number: 137
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 10:24 am: |
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It's the heat. |
Silver Member Username: Donaldekelly
Washington,
DC
Usa
Post Number: 159
Registered: Jul-04
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| Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 11:39 am: |
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I was at Best Buy a few days ago and they still had Athena - F1s I think and maybe F2s. I heard that Athena is not going to ship the version 2s to Best Buy - so I assume these are the heavier, thicker and possibly better version 1s.
Mileage at your Best Buy may vary.
Impressive reputation for such cheap speakers. And impressive reviews. I have B1s and they sound very good. |
Silver Member Username: Twebbz
Ann Arbor,
Michigan
USA
Post Number: 138
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 01:15 pm: |
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I was told by Athena that BEST BUY did not want to sell the AUDITION line anymore, only the HT stuff and sub woofers but they were trying to have them sell them on the BEST BUY website. I suspect that other speaker manufacturers such as Sony, Infinity and Yamaha, etc. were not getting sales because of Athena and were upset about it. That whole other group of speakers except for Klipsch sounded inferior to me. I think Klipch is a strong seller though. I thought the largest Synergy F3 was pretty good...the others less so. They have a certain appeal to a younger customer that like a very forward midrange/treble presentation.
I was wondering how the Athena bookshelvers sounded. I just turned on the B2s for a brief moment and they had nice clarity but they were way up on a shelf so I could not judge the bass...anyway, at the time I was wetting my pants with the AS-F2s and AS-F1s...Hehehehe!!
Yea, I hope Athena can find another "brick & mortar" store to sell the Audition line because to hear 'em is to love 'em! |
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| Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 09:35 pm: |
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Its not that I want to use my speakers as a punching bag, its just disconcerting when the sidewalls flex badly from a simple knuckle rap test Rick. Thank you for your insights though. |
Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucks
Post Number: 1413
Registered: Jan-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 12:59 am: |
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Sorry rick, but I dont buy that theory. Any retail store is in business to sell product, and make money. That's it......
Do you really think a retailer will discontinue a 'hot' seller so they can increase sales on 'cold' items?? If BB discontinued carrying the brand, it's for other reasons and not because they were making too many sales and earning too much money. |
Gold Member Username: Edster922
Abubala,
Ababala
The Occupation
Post Number: 1025
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:23 am: |
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well Paul it is possible that BB makes bigger margins on the other stuff and also if they don't sell enough of Sony, Yamaha, etc. speakers then they might lose the most competitive pricing on other products from those manufacturers.
Wholesalers usually will offer deeper discounts if you do higher volume on their stuff.
Just my shot-in-the-dark guess...
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Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucks
Post Number: 1418
Registered: Jan-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:18 am: |
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Nobody will discontinue a product if it sells too well. There are multitudes of reasons that could cause a product to be discontinued(contract disputes..etc, etc), but not because of the reason mentioned in the origional statement.
Anyway, if it's such a hot seller, they wont need as much margin. Plus, if they discontinue their 'hot' item, there's no guarantee the unpopular model sales will rise enough to offset their 'hot tomato' loss, and they risk losing the customer/sale to a competitor. That is a chance that no retailer is willing to take.
The reality is that its probably not the 'hot potato' that rick thinks. Discontinue a brand because it sells too well????.....puhlease!!
Also, you think somebody as large as BB worries about volume for discounts from suppliers??? LOL........c'mon man!! They're probably the largest domestic retailer in the country and move more product than anybody else, at worst top 2-3.
LOL
Who knows, maybe those hot tomatos will end up in Rex Electronics next to the CVs |
Silver Member Username: Donaldekelly
Washington,
DC
Usa
Post Number: 166
Registered: Jul-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 08:57 am: |
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I think Paul has a point. Athena is not a brand most people walk into bestbuy knowing about, unless they came here first.
Most people have heard of Bose, Klipsch, Yamahah, etc. Athena may not be a great seller for them. |
Silver Member Username: Donaldekelly
Washington,
DC
Usa
Post Number: 167
Registered: Jul-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 08:58 am: |
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I once saw a Cerwin Vega at a yard sale that was almost as big as I am! I wanted to get it just to listen!
Thank God for the WAF. |
Silver Member Username: Twebbz
Ann Arbor,
Michigan
USA
Post Number: 149
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 09:33 am: |
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Pual, When I persued purchasing my AS-F2s in 2004 they were very hard to get from Best Buy. So maybe it was a supplier problem. Athena did say that the heft of the AS-F2 & AS-F1 was causing damage in shipment. Since they are made in China, maybe it was tough to keep Best Buy supplied with stock. Best Buy is only carrying the subs and HT Athena stuff now. Lighter and easier to ship. Ultimately, we'll never know what the real deal was/is unless we get a mole from Best Buy to spill the beans.
I can't really agree with you that they would not be a hot selling line though. I listened to ALL of the speaker lines at Best Buy and only the Klipch Synergy line was in the same ballpark as the Athenas. The F3 came the closest with a similar sound quality to the AS-F2s but the F3s were not balanced with the treble and midrange being VERY forward. ALL the other lines of speakers were very dull and lethargic by comparison. Very easy to hear the difference even in Best Buy.
Yes, Big Box stores do have a stigma of selling volume crap and this has tarnished the image of Athena. I suppose it was done to increase market share (and make more money) since they have Energy and Mirage in boutique stereo shops too.
BTW, I did cruise our two local Stereo boutique shops BEFORE ever checking out Best Buy. Didn't even consider that place for stereo stuff. I narrowed my choices to The Klipch Reference line RB-75 @ $600ea and Paradigm Studio 40s at about the same price, I think. When I heard the Athena AS-F2s (while at Best Buy looking at CD's) and saw the price of $600 for the pair, I didn't hesitate (well, I did go back and listen to them about ten times before I bought them). My leftover cash enabled me to by the NAD C370 Integrated amp and a C422 Tuner and I'm very with my setup and I smile every time I turn it on. |
Silver Member Username: Twebbz
Ann Arbor,
Michigan
USA
Post Number: 150
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 09:51 am: |
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...and before I purchased my new AS-F1s, I auditioned Paradigm Monitor 5s, 7s and Axiom M50ti's. |
Gold Member Username: Paul_ohstbucks
Post Number: 1425
Registered: Jan-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 12:16 pm: |
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Rick,
You may have hit the bullseye in your first paragraph of your response. Now 'THAT' sounds like a damn good example of a reason why a retailer might discontinue a product line.
I wasnt trying to imply that Athenas arent good, or a good seller, only that no good seller is discontinued without a good reason, and selling too many isnt a good reason. |
Silver Member Username: Black_math
Post Number: 252
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 09:11 pm: |
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Wal-Mart moves more electronics than Best Buy...cd's and videos, as well. |
Gold Member Username: Edster922
Abubala,
Ababala
The Occupation
Post Number: 1032
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 11:53 pm: |
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Rick,
I don't mean to diss the Paradigm Studios but I think your decision to go with the cheaper Athenas and put the savings into the NAD gear was a very, very wise choice!
I'd bet money that even Art would choose the Athenas powered by NAD over the Studios powered by a cheap receiver in a blind listening test.
Long live NAD!!! |
Gold Member Username: Edster922
Abubala,
Ababala
The Occupation
Post Number: 1033
Registered: Mar-05
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| Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 11:54 pm: |
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wow Paul,
you have made some excellent points in this thread...methinks you understand retailing a lot better than certain other subjects! ; ) |
Silver Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 987
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 07:28 am: |
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You are right Edster. You can always come back later and change out the speakers. Meanwhile you have good sound. |
Silver Member Username: Twebbz
Ann Arbor,
Michigan
USA
Post Number: 160
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 09:49 am: |
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Speaking of the NAD C370, I find no difference in sound quality when I compare it to my Rotel RX-1052. I lust for no other amplification of "higher quality". |
Silver Member Username: Artk
Albany,
Oregon
USA
Post Number: 991
Registered: Feb-05
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| Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 09:59 am: |
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NAD and Rotel are of equivalent quality. You have to pay a whole lot more for better. |
