Archive through May 29, 2005

New member

Username: Taz_devil

Post Number: 2
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 09:03 am:

John - many, many thanks.

I will check out the Oz guy's as they are just across the pond there, so to speak. Will also check out the others.

Thanks again for the leads.

If anyone else has any suggestions, I would be very happy to hear from them. Cheers.

Relevant Product Info

John A.

Gold Member

Username: John_a

London
U.K.

Post Number: 3014
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 10:29 am:

You are welcome, Taz. My Rantz (see Apr 15 above) knows the Oz HiFi scene pretty well, and I predict he will respond to my pommey-rot.... I just went to the linked "Melody" site and it crashed my browser.

I look forward to further replies to your post.

Does anyone here have anything on "Amplifon" WT40?

Getting a demo of a valve amp is difficult, even given the best will on all sides. Comparing valve amps must be impossible: you have to live with them for a while.

It is one of these areas where buying on specs and reputation, hopefully with a trial period, is about the best we can hope for. So coming to this thread was a good idea.

Arthur Kyle

Silver Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 243
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 11:55 am:

Taz,

Entry level tube setup. The PrimaLuna ProLogue One integrated amp is getting raves at only $1095.

Gold Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 1063
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 12:47 pm:

Taz,

I don't know if Jolida is available in your area, but I use a JD102B which retails in the United States for under $600. I recommend it highly. It's an EL84 based ultralinear 20WPC. If you have a chance to give one a listen, please do so. Great reviews also.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

Warren, MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2397
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 03:02 pm:

I would say three of the more respected lower priced tube companies are.

Antique sound labs.
Jolida.
Rogue audio.

Then you have companies that are starting to get some decent press.

Ming Da.
PrimaLuna.
Melos.
Dared.
Mapletree Audio.

I would certainly look into used as the market is flooded with quality gear.
Audiogon.com should give you a good idea of the prices right now.

As far as speakers go, I don't know what is in your area and to me speakers
are far to subjective per listener for me to suggest what to get.

I would poke around see what you find then ask questions on the ones you find
that tickle your fancy, so to speak.

The only thing I would say is to keep in mind what amount of power your going
to run comparred to the speakers your going to get.

What I meen is don't get some power hungary speakers then a 10 watt amp.

If you look towards speakers that are more effecient then the price of
your amplification can be much lower also as generally high powered tube
products are pretty pricey but low powered guy's can be great values.

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1737
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 08:00 pm:

Tas,

I don't know much about tube/valve gear here. Here is a link to a dealer in northern NSW near the QLD border: http://www.toma.com.au/

New member

Username: Taz_devil

Post Number: 3
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 08:01 am:

John, Arthur, Rick, Kegger, My R - Many thanks for the gems.

Back to the research by the looks of it. One of the big problems is accessing some of the 'name' gear in this neck of the woods.

Kegger, I can't seem to find stockists or distributors (here in Australia) for any of the manufacturers you mentioned. I may have to look at buying in the States and shipping to Oz, although I guess the 220/240 volt issue will dog me then. Your point about efficiencies is noted - I am looking at Magnepan MMG's at present and guess if I stick with tube gear I'm going to need at least 50w to drive them.

I look forward to getting more insider info as I trot down the tube path. Thanks.

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1742
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 08:48 am:

Taz

You'll see some nice tube gear on Ebay under electronics/amplifiers

http://www.ebay.com.au

Good hunting.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

Warren, MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2398
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 11:13 am:

Taz I don't know of the availability of the brands I listed in your
neck of the woods. As mr. Rantz has said maybe try Ebay or Audiogon as I
do see some things listed in australia on those.

I just listed those brands as being the quote bang for the buck companies!

Silver Member

Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 573
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 12:35 pm:

Taz,

I can highly recommend the PrimaLuna Prologue as an entry-level tube amp. You get the benefits of a tube amp without some of the hassles that put people off to tube gear, e.g., automatic biasing, soft-start circuitry to extend tube life. If you go to www.upscaleaudio.com there is a link for international sales.

It's great that you're updating your equipment all at once. Matching the amp with speakers will be critical to getting good sound. It would be worth calling Upscale Audio if you do decide to get the PrimaLuna. They are very knowledgeable and I'm sure they can help you select speakers that match the amp.

Silver Member

Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 574
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 02:28 pm:

One more brand to consider is Cayin. Their integrated amp is very similar to the Primaluna. I think they are built in the same factory in China.

"I am looking at Magnepan MMG's at present and guess if I stick with tube gear I'm going to need at least 50w to drive them."

Not necessarily. I listened the MMGs driven by a Jolida 302 amp, which is rated at 40w, and was surprised at how good it sounded. I too thought that the MMGs needed a more powerful amp to drive them, but have learned otherwise.

New member

Username: Taz_devil

Post Number: 4
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 08:31 am:

G'day again,

Can I take a second nibble at the cherry here...

Today I listened to a PrimaLuna ProLogue One (thanks Kegger/Arthur) and think it sounds superb (I also like the manufacture of the unit, the finish is great).

So, nice. Part one solved. Problem is I am also hooked on the Magnepan MMG's (only from reviews and raves am I addicted, this may be foolish but where I am it's impossible to find this equip to audition).

I have looked everywhere on boards, mag reviews etc and don't seem to be able to find any definitive advice as to whether the PrimaLuna (or tube amp of similar power) will drive the MMG's (excepting Two's comment above, thanks Two).

Some say no worries, others say +250w and you'll be getting close.

I am getting a friend to purchase the MMG's from the factory and ship them Down Under so the last thing I want is to find they sound great if you wear them as headphones when driven by the Prima.

I know what I want the answer to be but I need experienced advice on this one.

Gold Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3538
Registered: May-04

Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 11:00 am:

Read from this page to see an Old Dog who used tubes with MMG's:

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/132438.html

New member

Username: Taz_devil

Post Number: 5
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 10:27 pm:

Thankyou. Most helpful.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

Warren, MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2403
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 02:10 am:

Taz I would think something in the range of 40-50 watts a channel would power
the mmg's with no problem. It's when you move upto the larger maggies you need
to consider larger amps as they seem to be a lot tougher to drive.

New member

Username: Taz_devil

Post Number: 6
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 04:09 am:

Thanks Kegger - The Prima has 35w and there is another Australian brand that Simply Mac purchased a re-badged version of (mentioned in the boards a coupla months back - boy have I been doing some reading). Called a Onix over on the right side of the pond, this way they're called Melody (shocking name I gotta say, goes with the truly awful music on their site). That pumps out 38w then they have a beefy 40w model.

Trying to get hold of these people (the manufacturers) is the hardest thing, it's like being admitted to some arcane society. I emailed three a number of times over the last two weeks and got absoluitely no response, what is it with customer service ??? When I finally gave up and called they got the greatest shock that I was phoning from Tasmania, like I should have been using drums or smoke or something.

The people at Melody don't even have a phone number, just a post office box (and bad music). I don't understand that approach.

If anyone reading this knows where I can get in touch with a Melody (agent) just write here and I'll eat my laptop after I've memorised the message. Promise.

Gold Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3542
Registered: May-04

Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:53 am:

In my experience, the amount of power the amp can produce as stated on a piece of paper has nothing to do with how the amp will drive various speakers. Some amplifiers will have better control of the speaker (specifically the low frequency driver) and some will not. Though I doubt you would want to put an 8 watt, triode based tube amp on the MMG's, the amount of power over about 25 watts should be of nominal concern. Finding an amp that will drive the loudspeaker and not the other way around should be your goal. Amplifier wattage will, to some extent, determine the volume your system can achieve. The problem with that sentence is buying wattage to gain volume is not practical.

Silver Member

Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 576
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 12:44 pm:

Taz,

Jan has much knowledge. The Primaluna should have no trouble driving the MMGs. I believe SM was quite satisfied with the Onix and MMG combo. I wouldn't worry about the wattage ratings of either of these amps when mating with the MMGs. If you have trouble reaching Melody in Aus, you could try emailing the North American distributor. The same for Primaluna (although I've had better luck calling them, but that could be expensive for you).

kegewe

Unregistered guest

Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 01:08 pm:

If I have a 5.1 channel receiver that puts out 100w of power per speaker, what would happen if i hook up 80w speakers to it?? how about 120w speakers? will any of that damage any compnents?

Gold Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3545
Registered: May-04

Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 01:31 pm:

I will never dicourage anyone from buying new product; especially with the amount of good products available today at somewhat sensible prices. I would, however, suggest that if the products you are considering appear to be less than concerned about customer service before the sale, you might want to be a bit concerned about customer service after the sale.

Please do not take this as a warning against any company or compnaies. I speak only from many years of experience in the audio market. Dozens upon dozens of high quality products have made it to the market in high end audio, only to sink under their own weight. Excellent engineers and designers are not guaranteed to be good business people. Even hiring "good business people" often can result in devastating after shocks. Look on the pages of eBay or Audiogon to find the numbers of products that were succesfully marketed as the final product the company produced.

The expansion needed when a product hits the ground running while trying to catch up with glowing reviews has been a difficult process for all too many cpmpanies. Today the world wide distribution of products makes the task all the more difficult.

Of course, some of these companies can translate that momentum into a lasting reputation and the "early adpoters" are merely caught in the growing process of such a company.

I will say part of my personal decision on what product I should invest in has more often than not been decided by a call to the factory or representative. Unanswered calls now can spell disaster in the future. Not always; but sometimes. A company such as Quad, McIntosh, Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, etc., has stayed around because of their continued committment to product and to customer service. I believe all of the companies I mentioned can support any product they ever produced to some degree. That alone is a portion of why the price for their products is reasonably higher than many others and why the resale stays higher than many others.

It becomes a two edged sword when the manufacturer is chasing new sales and hoping to survive long enough to provide service for a long discoutinued product. (Of course, there are companies such as Quad, McIntosh and Sugden that keep the same basic model in their line for decades.) New sales will allow the fledgling company the ability to become an old company. Lost sales due to poor customer service will allow the young company's products to be sold on eBay at discount prices.

I cannot tell you what path to follow in searching for the ideal component at the price you wish to pay. I would only suggest that if you find a company dificult to deal with, there are many companies that have decades of products to choose from that have proven their committment to customer service.

Gold Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3546
Registered: May-04

Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 01:32 pm:

"Jan has much knowledge."

I do indeed. I keep it in boxes in the attic and closets.

Gold Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 1078
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 02:23 pm:

You sir, are far too modest!

Sincerely

New member

Username: Taz_devil

Tasmania
Australia

Post Number: 7
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 12:08 am:

I am humbled by the quality of advice. Thankyou.

I am now more knowledgeable about valve gear, by a factor of four, than I was two weeks ago.

- Point taken Jan

- Thanks Two

Now to totally blow any credibility I may have and cement my newbieness...

*slightly off topic*

(Gulp - I can just feel this is a stupid question but I've got to ask) If I get a friend to send MMG's from the States the speaker cable connections will not have to be modified will they?

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1772
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 12:25 am:

Taz - someone said the only stupid question is the one not asked.

Yours is the exception - no, no, no, just kidding, really LOL!

No modifications would be needed.

New member

Username: Taz_devil

Tasmania
Australia

Post Number: 8
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 04:58 am:

Phew. Thanks mate.

tintzone

Unregistered guest

Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 12:26 pm:

q: wheres the best place to go thru the fire wall in a 2000 chvrolet malibu ive got one in tha shop and its packed pretty tight.

Gold Member

Username: Jan_b_vigne

Dallas, TX

Post Number: 3553
Registered: May-04

Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 12:50 pm:

In your driveway.

Gold Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 1082
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 01:23 pm:

....YEP......

New member

Username: Taz_devil

Tasmania
Australia

Post Number: 9
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 10:19 pm:

Jan, Kegger, 2c, Arthur, John A, My Rantz, et al

Given that you are the holders of the tube grail (excusing My Rantz, who I understand has not walked towards the light as yet) could you recommend some sub US$1500 CD players that will work nicely with the Prima Luna Prologue one and a set of MMG's?

I tried the CD forum but it's a mess over there...

Thanks in advance

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

Warren, MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2407
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 02:04 am:

Taz: ALL, myself mr rantz and SM run the denon universal players and all have
been extremly happy with them. They play all the formats and work wonderful with
tube gear. I have the 2200 and I believe so does SM, mr rantz runs the 2900 I believe
and a friend of mine runs the 5900 and loves his player.

Personally I think the 2200 is the best bang for the buck out there.

I'm sure there are better players maybe even some tube players!
"even though I haven't seen any sacd/dvd-a/cd tube units"
All the denons I mentioned play all the formats and I would not buy a player
that did not support all the formats and do them well like the denons do!

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1780
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 02:27 am:

Taz

If you are after a universal DVD player and one that has good cd playback, the Denon DVD-3910 is highly regarded by most reviewers. It also has the latest digital connections and plays all formats including both hi-res. I have the DVD-2900 (connected to a Marantz SR-7300) and I have played it to death for almost a year without one hiccup. The playback for cd, sacd and dvd-a is wonderful. You would be very lucky to get either the 2200, 2900, 5900, now as they are superceded.

As for other high end CD players - Lexicon, Arcam, Rega, Krell, Musical Fidelity. Some of these brands and many others have stand alone cd players, some support SACD and so on. Like speakers it is very difficult to recommend something that only your ears can decide.

Some review links:

http://www.homecinemachoice.com

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk

Check the editorial review link at the top of this page.

Good Luck

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1784
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 03:56 am:

Taz and other tube lovers [grin]

You may want to look at this integrated tube amp:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14973%26item%3D5768113 028%26

New member

Username: Taz_devil

Tasmania
Australia

Post Number: 10
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 04:24 am:

Thanks MR R. I'd spotted this a day or so back but haven't been able to find any reviews or additional info on the thing. I guess I would have to get someone who is familiar with components to check whether its innards are up to scratch.

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1785
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 05:10 am:

Taz - Hopefully Jan or Kegger will take a look when the sleepyheads rise in a few hours. :-)

Guys - please check the link for our friend in the land downunder the land downunder LOL!

The price seems too good to be true - but that may change to a more realistic value as the auction draws to a close.

Either that or it's a heap of doo doo!

Bronze Member

Username: Taz_devil

Tasmania
Australia

Post Number: 11
Registered: Apr-05

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 05:38 am:

Thanks MR R. Can you tell me, with those Denon models being superceded can I assume that the replacement models will be as great? Say the 2910 or 3910?

(yes Mr R, I am so close to the Antarctic I can smell it from here, down under Down Under indeed)

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1787
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 06:39 am:

I believe the 3910 is just as good if not a tad better than the 2900 which all the reviewers raved about. It also has variable (from 40 hz to 120 hz in 20hz increments) crossovers where the 2900 has only a 80hz lfe crossover. It is also more future proof for hi-res digital connections and hdtv etc. It has an even better video dac than the renown 2900. On Ebay there is dealer selling them for around $1590 - retail is $1990 here. Personally, based on my experience with cd's and the hi-res formats (and picture quality) I think it's a no brainer for the money.

Gold Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 1085
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 07:08 am:

Hi Taz,

I see you have been given some solid advice regarding universal players. However, I am not a fan of them. I don't know if your ultimate system is going to be stereo or multichannel. If stereo is what you seek, I prefer a dedicated CD player over the universals. Without having to compromise in order to do everything well, the manufacturer can put the cost to better DACS, optics, and build quality. Overall I think a dedicated player will give superior sonic results. Please remember that the source is probably the most important link in the chain.

Cheers!

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

The Land Dow...

Post Number: 1788
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 10:14 am:

Rick,

I always value your opinion and what you say may be so, but for overall performance, including CD, the mid range Denons and higher are hard to beat unless big money is spent.

"Better DAC's, optics, and build quality"

Just what the reveiwers say about the Denons. But, Taz, you should do your homework and decide what type of source you are looking for. But, even 2 channel hi-res eats redbook cd's - no matter what amplication.

Gold Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 1086
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 10:23 am:

Rantz,

In my experience, I have never seen, or should I say heard, a $1000 universal player play CD's better than a $1000 dedicated CD player, from the same manufacturer.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

Warren, MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2408
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 10:24 am:

Rick I have to disagree also!

Even for stereo I would not buy anything but a universal player.

My denon plays everything really really well and I use it for stereo on the sacd
and dvd-audio disks all the time. I am surprised at the quality it plays all formats.

And I am glad I don't have to buy 3 seperate players which is what I would do
to play the high rez material if I had to, it's that good!

Gold Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 1087
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 10:48 am:

Sorry..........Just my opinion, for what it's worth. I'm not knocking any format or brand, but at any price point, you can't tell me I can't find a dedicated CD player that will outperform a universal player on CD's.

Arthur Kyle

Silver Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 278
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 11:37 am:

I agree with Rick. I own a good Marantz universal player, but I wouldn't if I didn't have a dedicated CD player already. My NAD C542 is far better sounding with CD's than my Marantz ubiversal. I have heard the Denon's, last week in fact while I was ordering my Studio 40's, and they do not IMO sound as good as either the NAD or Rotel dedicated CD players. Taz, I know that you are committed to buying the MMG's but I have to say that I would caution against it. I went the Maggie route and it wrecked my audio life for 1 1/2 years. Don't let anyone tell you that they are not power hungry, they are. They are like sails on a sail boat, you can get the boat going with very little air but you will not see the full potential of the boat without fiiling the sails with lots of air. I started by anwering an ad for and old pair of SMGa's. Bought them for $125 and enjoyed them in my second system in the bedroom. I didn't have enough power however as I only had an 80 watt per channel Marantz receiver so I replaced that with a Rotel 100 watt receiver with considerably more current. Not long and that was not enough I still wasn't getting out of them what I could. I put them in my main system replacing my Studio 40 v2's. At long last I had enough power but the speaker rolled off at around 16khz so I called Magnepan and inquired about the MMG's. They said that they were essentially the SMGa with full frequency range. I bought them and guess what, they didn't have near the substantial feel and sound that the SMGa had, so I sent them back and bought the MG12's and on and on. You get my drift. Maggies's have that spooky "there in the roomness" that you can only get with a planar or electrostatic design, but until you get up to the 3.6's you sacrifice detail and versatility. Maggie's are very seductive by I will never be swayed by them again. You can buy dynamic designs that do most of what the Maggie does well with all that dynamic speakers have over the Maggie's. My current speaker's (Paradigm Monitor 5's until my new Studio 40 v3's come in next week) don't sound as good as my MG12's did but I'm happier with them, I no longer have to worry if this music or that will sound good with them as they show the flexibility to sound good with any kind of music. There are dozens of brands of quality dynamic loudspeaker brands to chose from. If you have any questions about the Maggie's fell free to email and perhaps we can talk about it as it is difficult to describe this way.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

Warren, MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2409
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 12:02 pm:

The reason why I argue the point is I know someone who has the nad c542 and
a denon 2200 and has comparred there performance and prefers the denon on redbook!

He is now selling his C542 player as it's no longer needed!

That Is why I say I'm pretty darn impressed with the performance of the denons
on redbook cd and the other formats that is why I back the player so much!

They are truly in a league of there own! I don't know how they do it, but they do.

Arthur Kyle

Silver Member

Username: Artk

Albany, Oregon
USA

Post Number: 279
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 12:11 pm:

My Rantz. You have a point. On paper the Denon's have the competition spanked. I have a Marantz DV6400 which I had to sent back to Illinois to have a frimware upgrade, and when it came back to my audio store (Bradford's in Eugene, Oregon) I compared it directly with the Denon DVD2910 using both a Marantz and a Denon receiver. First I have to say that the build quality of Denon appears to be far superior on the surface (weighs more than twice as much). For video the Marantz appeared superior in everyway. The picture quality wasn't even close. Sound on video was a bit different. It really depends on your preferance. The Denon was a bit more detailed where the Marantz was warmer and may cause less listener fatigue. The owner of Bradford's preferred the Marantz. For music it really was a toss up. I liked the sound of the Marantz for upper register information where the Denon may have edged the Marantz with slightly more defined bass. Point being that specs sometimes don't tell the whole story. Both players are competent and it really is a toss up which one you chose. The Denon has HDMI and DVI which may be a clincher for you, not for me. I know that HD-DVD and Blu ray are coming so I will wait for that to settle down before I worry about upconverting. Still for CD's a dedicated CD palyer is the way to go unless ofcourse you can afford a Linn Unidisk (which sounds fantastic).

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

Warren, MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2410
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 12:23 pm:

Just one last thing on the denon!

I was at that audiofest a couple weeks ago and the gentelmen that setup stuff
in the room with me brought his expensive upsampler and external dac
which he uses on his pioneer elete drive. I allready had my denon setup so we put
the upsampler and dac on my denon plus put the analog from the denon into the
preamp and did an ab test between the upsampler/dac combo and the denon, the owner
of the dac/upsampler could not believe it we heard no noticable improvement
in sound on redbook cd's.

I personally don't care what other people use and what to put on there system
but I'm very impressed with what the denons can do as an all in one player.
Ther is no compromise, none at all!

Silver Member

Username: Two_cents

Post Number: 578
Registered: Feb-04

Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 12:25 pm:

I agree with Kegger that the Denon 2200 is a good all around silver disc player (I own one myself), but I also agree with Rick and Arthur that a dedicated CD player in the same price range will tend to sound better with CD. In fact the sound of CDs on my Cal Audio Labs CDP is comparable to the sound of SACDs on the Denon and is noticeably better on CD playback.

If Taz is mainly interested in playing CDs, then a dedicated CDP should provide better sound for the money. For the amount he's budgeted, he could get an excellent player. The Musical Fidelity X-Ray, the Jolida JD-100 (a really nice tube player), and Arcam (can't remember the model) are a few CDPs I've auditioned recently that sound fabulous. Of course, it's best to audition for yourself to find out which one appeals most to your taste.

If versatility is important to you, i.e., the ability to play SACD, DVD-A, DVD-V, etc., the Denons are an easy recommendation. The picture quality on DVDs is among the best I've seen regardless of price.