Archive through March 20, 2005

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 158
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 11:29 pm:

Hmmm...there's something wrong with my sub. I noticed a couple of weeks ago there was a hum coming from it. Thought it might be a loose wire so I turned off the sub until I had time/motivation to work with it. When I first connected the HD cable, I saw one of the sub connectors was loose so I completely disconnected it until today.

I first put the leads into their own speaker outlets and noticed the hum is still there. I moved the sub cable away from the power cord. This seemed to help some but the hum was still discernible - plus, the cable in relation to the power cord was never this sensitive before. Anyway, I started up the amp and played just the sub and there was horrible distortion.

So, I took the speaker leads and twisted them as tightly as I could with the main speakers leads and stuff it into the spring clips as far as they would go. Still have terrible distortion.

I tried plugging the power cord into a different outlet on the power center and I tried plugging it directly into the wall outlet. Nothing helps.

This symptom is new. I used this sub with the MA's, B&W's and, at first the Spendors and it played beautifully. Any idea what might be wrong?

I've sent email to REL, too. Hopefully, they will respond.

Thanks, Jan. At this time, I don't think I want to change the Mac. I've never really done any soldering so I'd be afraid I would damage something. If I send it to Audio Classics at some point for service, I may request a change to binding posts at that time.

Relevant Product Info

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 159
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 11:36 pm:

MR,

The extension cord wire is a heavy duty cable. I wonder if the extra thickness and stiffness of the copper made a difference? If so, does this mean a solid wire, such as the magnet wire, might be even more of an improvement?

That's one I'll have to sleep on...time to shower and go to bed.

G'nite!

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1532
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 11:45 pm:

SM

Can you try it with a pre-amp output?

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 02:34 am:

Freq. Response 49Hz - 22kHz � 3dB on reference axis

This is a measurement taken on axis meaning (typically) with the speaker face on to the listener (or measuring device) and with the tweeter's center at the same height vertically as the listener's ear. The way the spec is normally stated is on axis to the tweeter itself since high frequencies are the most directional and fall off in level as the listener moves off axis (off to an angle) vertically or horizontally. Even though most decent tweeters have fairly wide horizontal dispersion across a broad field, there will always be less high frequency content when the listener is not directly in front of the speaker. Different designers have different ideas about how wide the dispersion of the high frequencies should be. Though it amounts to a speaker with a more defined sweet spot for listening, a tweeter with a more narrow dispersion pattern will often have better imaging because the listener will hear mostly the information directly from the tweeter with very little reflected information arriving out of phase due to the longer reflected path. A speaker with a broader dispersion pattern will have a wider listening area but will also put more energy into the room to be reflected by room surfaces. This can result in a more uneven frequency response in a real world situation due to reflections and comb filtering. As a general rule, speakers which benefit from broad dispersion can sound open and airy when done well though often have a flattened soundstage. Speakers with a narrow dispersion pattern can have excellent staging and imaging, with a good sense of microdynamics, but when done poorly or placed in the wrong room, they can sound very dry and not at all airy and even muddled in their response. If the listener can control room reflections extremely well, a broad dispersion pattern is probably beneficial. In a more typical room, one with furnishings and not devoted to speakers only, some narrowing of the tweeter's response is probably not a bad thing.

The use of the term reference axis implies the flattest response from the speaker is obtained not exactly on the horizontal axis of the tweeter but, instead, at a virtual point somewhere between the tweeter and the midrange. This is probably the result of the design of the tweeter, the front baffle or the X-over. Since B&W controls all these elements by making everything that is used in their speakers in house, it is most likely a combination of all three and represents a philosophical direction B&W have chosen for their speakers in this range.

The on axis response, though measured in an anechoic chamber, is the strictest measurement of frequency response. As with the speaker I referenced for SM, + or - 3dB means a variation of no more than 6db total over the 10 octaves the speaker is covering. This is quite good for any speaker. Even the 800 series has no tighter specs in this regard. One difference between the 600 and 800 series measurements is the dispersion patterns, and here the 600 is slightly more narrow. This probably reflects B&W's attitude toward the typical user and placement of this series vs. the (extremely) more dedicated user of the 800 series. The 600 series tweeter is probably going to have less reflected energy in a typical room. The guy with the 800's is more likely to have a dedicated listening room.

One measurement that would be nice to have, but is seldom seen in even the best speakers, is system to system matching. The expense of narrowing the accepted drivers to a measurement of 1 to 1.50dB side to side is where the exactness of the manufacturer pays dividends in imaging and soundstaging. But even some very expensive speakers don't give this measurement so B&W is not out of line by not stating this number.

***********************

Freq. Range -6dB at 40Hz and 42kHz

This is merely a measurement of where the limits of the speaker's response fall. As with the low frequencies, the range accepted as usable high frequency response stops after the speaker has lost more than 6dB. This measurement is not about the peaks and valleys of the frequency response as the + or - spec is. This measurement just tells you the speaker runs out of juice at 40Hz on the low end and 42kHz on the top. Room reinforcement will give this speaker enough bass extension to deal with 90% of what it is asked to reproduce, though being a ported design you should remember its response falls off at about 24dB per octave. The ported design also means the port itself will make a significant contribution to the last half octave of bass response and in lesser designs can create a "chuffy" one note bass in the last few Hz of response. This is where those dimpled flowports come into their own. If you were to close the ports with the damper, you would change the "Q" of the design and though raising the point where the roll off begins, you would change the roll off to a more likely -6dB per octave. The overall character of the bass response would change noticeably. Ported designs usually offer punchy bass while sealed designs tend to give a warmer bass with more power but less kick. My personal preference is for a sealed box because, to my ear, it gives a bass response that sounds more like it is rollong off naturally compared to many sealed boxes with their steeper roll off which I hear as going to a point and then there is nothing. If you should try plugging the port, the sealed enclosure will be less efficient and will require resetting the level to match your other speakers.

On the high frequency side, 42kHz represents B&W's committment to extending the response of their tweeters to as high a frequency as possible. Tweeters, like woofers, usually stop making music after they have hit their resonant peak. By developing a lighter, stiffer material for the tweeter, B&W have pushed that break up point an octave above the usually accepted cut off for human ears. Again, as with dispersion, the amount of extension actually needed in a tweeter is a matter of disagreement between designers. Soft domes with a limit of 22kHz or lower are still around and giving good sound. The materials that can extend the frequency response above 24kHz are metal depositions (and diamond in the new 800 series). Some people enjoy the cleanliness the stiffer materials provide while others find them "bright". I found it is mostly a matter of taste which design someone will prefer. None the less, the designs have come a long way from the Yamaha NS 1000 with one of the first aluminum domes. When combined with the digital recordings of the late '70's and early '80's, that tweeter would drive roaches out of the house. That was not always a good thing when you were down to seeds and stems.

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1533
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 03:06 am:

Jan,

Again, a detailed and easy to understand description. You have cleared up my confusion and I now/will have a much better understanding of speaker specs and design. I am saving this installment also into my hi-fi notes to help broaden my knowledge or at least be able to go directly to the info should I not be able to recall it - which is becoming all too often. I liked and can relate to the summing up. Much obliged, thanks.

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 920
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 09:36 am:

.....down to seeds and stems.

LOL!

Seems like so long ago my friend................

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 10:40 am:

Lucky you.

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 12:57 pm:

Sorry, in my despcription of reference axis, please substitute vertical for the use of horizontal in this sentence: "The use of the term reference axis implies the flattest response from the speaker is obtained not exactly on the horizontal axis of the tweeter but, instead, at a virtual point somewhere between the tweeter and the midrange."

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 02:29 pm:

Some days its just hard to tell up from down and left from right.

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 160
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 04:16 pm:

I received a response from REL in the UK referring me to the US distributor. I sent the US distributor full details about what I had tried including the line:

"I tried plugging the power cord into a different outlet on the power center and I tried plugging it directly into the wall outlet.

The US distributor responded with:

" Please try plugging the REL directly into the wall, rather than using the Monster Power conditioner.

OK. So, they missed the part about plugging it into the wall not helping. Additionally, they said if their suggestion didn't work it would need service and to take it to the dealer from who I purchased it. Still waiting to hear from them on what my options are if I purchased a several years old, used REL.

This morning, I completely disconnected the Neutrik cable from the sub and the hum continued. So, I think there is either a problem with the sub's amp (in which case it will need service or it will need to be junked if it is too expensive to repair) or possibly the power cord.

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 05:24 pm:

So the sub is humming (60Hz?) when it is disconnected from the system but just plugged into a wall outlet?

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1534
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 05:39 pm:

"Some days its just hard to tell up from down and left from right."

I feel already that today is one of those days! Thanks for the amendment. I guess part of the reason the 602's seem to fit seemlessly into our surround set-up is (a) a similar size high frequency metal dome tweeter and (b) the ported design, though the JBL's are rear ported so placement is a little more critical. I guess the next thing to try would be to swap the JBL's main positions with the 602 rears thus giving B&W all duties across the front with the center LCR6 S2. A bit of a hassle though!

Wife and I again listened to a cross section of cd's on the weekend switching from the JBL's to the 602's - by wiring the 602's to the "B" speaker connection. As I stated, the surround set-up seems seemless as the B&W's appear to suit the JBL's. Yet, switching between both sets of speakers listening in 'stereo' to the cd's, the difference was night and day, a metaphor perhaps best describing the difference. Both sound wonderful in their own way, but the JBL's were night and the 602's were the day. Thought not muted or veiled, the JBL's just seemed darker in the mid range and when switching back to the 602's was like the sun coming up.

SM

I hate to hear of component problems. Hope it's a little thing. If not, maybe you can hum along with it LOL!

Sorry - not funny!

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 161
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 09:11 pm:

So the sub is humming (60Hz?) when it is disconnected from the system but just plugged into a wall outlet?

Yes. I tried a different power cord on it tonight and plugged it into an outlet in a different room and it still hums/buzzes.

According to REL, it needs repair. They recommended a shop in San Francisco. But, this sucker is heavy and by the time I pay for shipping charges and the repair, it probably would be at least $300-400. I'll call the repair shop and get an estimate but I doubt I'll get it repaired. For the time being, I may just do without a sub.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2287
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 09:38 pm:

SimplyMcIntosh I wish I lived near yu I'd take a look at it for yu.

You said it sounds distorted too?
If it only hummed but sounded allright I'd say a ground problem But if it's
distorted too my guess would be the internal amp.

If it's the amp then yes that could be very expensive. If you decided to
send it somewhere I do offer my services to see what it is and more than likely
be able to repair it. Just a thought.

If anything else you could wire it direct to the internal speaker and power it
with another amp. There are subwoofer amps that might give you a little more control.
Just another option!

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2288
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 09:52 pm:

something like one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39783%26item%3D5759193617 %26%26

And then of course you have the more expensive ones:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67786%26item%3D5759563939 %26%26

Anyways there are affordable subwoofer amps that are like a component like those!
Can be a very useful piece of equipment!

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 162
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 10:25 pm:

Kegger,

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it! I'll give this some thought and let you know where I'll go with it.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2289
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 10:41 pm:

No problem Sm I just wanted to try and give you some options that maybe you
would not have thought of. As I allways try and find the alternative! LOL

See yu!

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2290
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

I use something simular in my setup.

Where as those type units I mention have the amp and controls built in I use
a DBX subwoofer processor then out to a stereo amp powering (2) 12" drivers
In a cabinet I designed that has ports for each driver but I also have plugs
for the ports to tune the thing if I feal the need.

The adjustment and control something like those can add to the system is excelent.
I can't live without mine even though it is kinda different from those. The reason it
would work without to much problem is the driver in your sub is tuned/mated to the
cabinet it's in so an amp supllying enough power and the correct frequencies is all you need.

By all means I am not trying to push you towards one of these just giving you
food for thought, not that you need any more! LOL

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 11:58 pm:

SM - If the sub is out of warranty (?) I would suggest you ask the repair center whether it is possible for you to remove the amplifier from the enclosure and just ship it instead of the entire subwoofer. They can probably give a possible diagnosis over the phone regarding where the problem might exist. It would appear, from your description, the problem is in the amplifier and is unlikely to be a defective driver. If so there is the possibility of taking the amplifier out of the box and shipping a much lighter package. If it is out of warranty there should probably be no problem with you removing the amplifier unless it is difficult to accomplish. If they need the entire unit because the amp and sub work through a feedback/servo loop, then you might have to decide what to do.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2291
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:15 am:

Dam good thinking Jan! Duh, Much lighter to ship just the amp!

After that If the amp is very expensive to fix then she may want to think
of alternative amplification for the sub.

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 163
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 07:51 am:

Thanks Jan and Kegger! Excellent ideas from both. I'll check with the repair shop in the next couple of days to see what the options are. If I can ship just the amp part cheaper and the repair isn't too expensive, I may opt for that.

G'nite!

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:28 am:

If the repair shop agrees to that option, have them give you as much information about removing the amp from the enclosure as possible. Quite often the amp is sealed to the box very firmly and requires some muscle to make the final yank that breaks it free. People that are used to breaking frozen nuts and bolts off old cars are used to this approach, but it is still sometimes a leap of faith to think you're going to be able to get everything back in place once you've given the big pull.

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 01:39 pm:

44 B.C.: Julius Caesar assassinated

1939: Germany occupies Bohemia (Poland).

1968: Diocese of Rome announces it deplores but won't prohibit "rock and roll masses" at the Church of San Lessio Falconieri

1972: Top-rated Top 40 Los Angeles Radio station KHJ raided by police after calls from listeners who feared there'd been a revolution at the station from 6:00 to 7:30 in the morning. DJ Robert W. Morgan had played Donny Osmond's "Puppy Love" over and over. The police left without making any arrests.

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1542
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 05:41 pm:

"Puppy Love" indicative of a revolution?

Donny Osmond the Che` Guevara of California?

No wonder Orson Wells fooled you Americans LOL!

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 10:33 pm:

Shhhhh! I'm listening to my Pat Boone Heavy Metal Album.

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1547
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 12:00 am:

Yeah right on! The best track is "April Showers Cause I Told Her She Stinks"

Larry,

Where are you? Have you heard what's happening with your Yamaha yet? And what about those other little secret additions to the family huh? Have they arrived yet? Have you and Mer named them? Are they keeping you up at night? Or has it been a long delivery? If so, I bet Mer and you are getting a bit anxious. Don't worry, I'm sure they'll arrive safe and sound and will be as cute as they can be. We await your good news.

That should keep 'em guessing LOL!

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 922
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 07:41 am:

Well, I stepped outside my cave this morning and saw my shadow. We have had no snow for a week. It looks like we here in "New England" may survive another winter.

I can't understand why the neighbors ran inside when they saw me.........................

It doesn't matter, I'm just going to point my nose skyward, and howl for awhile.

Sem

Silver Member

Username: Sem

New York
USA

Post Number: 433
Registered: Mar-04

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 10:10 am:

quote:
Well, I stepped outside my cave this morning and saw my shadow. We have had no snow for a week. It looks like we here in "New England" may survive another winter.

Rick,
Shhhhhh. You'll wake the Snow Gods. Something tells me they're still nearby....watching....waiting....

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 924
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 10:30 am:

Sorry.................I'll just sneak back into the cave, be very quiet, and wait.

Can someone just send some Chinese food and NOS tubes? Thank you!

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 164
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 01:30 pm:

Kegger, Jan,

I will be calling the REL repair shop today for more details but, based on the REL distributor's comments, it sounds like the amp and control panel are all one piece. The REL distributor said it would be out-of-warranty work so I'd have to incur cross-country shipping charges plus the repair costs.

If I were to consider using an external amp, would this not alter the REL's characteristics? The REL sub has a well-deserved reputation for being musical and I would want to retain that. But, I'm not sure if/how I could accomplish that with an external amp.

What I may do is get a completely new sub. I've done a little research and might try out the Rocket UFW-10 (which has a 30-day return period) or a Vandersteen 2Wq. Originally, I thought I would just do without a sub but I have a little extra cash right now, so it might be a good time to go ahead get one.

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 165
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 01:57 pm:

Oh, I forgot....what kind of cable should I use if I get a new subwoofer?

Tevo

Silver Member

Username: Tevo

Chicago, IL
USA

Post Number: 119
Registered: Feb-05

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 03:01 pm:

Perhaps consider these?

http://rivercable.com/subwoofr.html

Aside from DIY speaker wire, I have all my interconnects and what not are from River Cable.

Refreshingly voodoo science free, reasonably priced and they have exceptional craftsmanship and a good amount of that "high-end aesthetic" that is oh so important. :-)

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2294
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 03:15 pm:

SimplyMcIntosh The driver is mated to the cabinet for the propper output from
the driver inside to produce it's frequencies but yes to an extent you will get
the sound of the amp to the speaker but I would think in a D class amp which most
subs use that you wouldn't get much in the musical presence from the "amp".
Just my thinking! It's probably the cabinet and speaker more than the amp.
I would think any good quality amp would do it justice.

If you don't feel like butchering up the sub and do what I prupose (I can understand)
Then I may be interested in the sub instead of getting rid of it and getting a new one.

If you think this may be a course of action just email me. No hurry take your time
to figure out what you want to do. If I had the unit I would just use one of the amps
I have laying around that should get utilized!

Anyways just more food for thought and maybe a way to recoup some cash towards a new sub.

Larry R

Silver Member

Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 763
Registered: Oct-04

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 05:56 pm:

SM - I'll probably get zapped by some on this forum, but may I humbly suggest that you at least look at the Blue Jeans Cables? I got a 12-foot run of subwoofer cable - Belden 1505F, with Neat-oh Canare connectors - for $18.50 plus shipping.

No hum - quality excellent - I even got white wire, so it sorta disappears. I can't recomment Blue jeans Cables too highly. I now use them for ALL my wiring - without regret.

Yammie still among the missing - I'm getting anxious. Sigh.

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 166
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 08:19 pm:

Actually, the subwoofer cable was "dry humor" that I thought might be caught even without the smileys and winkys. :-)

Thanks for the tips - I may need to use them.

Kegger, will contact you as things become clearer. I was struck by a migraine this afternoon and did not get a chance to call the REL repair. Just now forced myself awake (at 7:00pm) so I wouldn't wake up at 2:00a.m.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 2298
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 09:31 pm:

SimplyMcIntosh take your time I am in no hurry to get more equipment I don't
really need. I hope everything works out for you and that you feel better!

See yu!

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 927
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 07:15 am:

Let's see................How to cure a migraine?

Buy a tube amp, of course! Works for me. LOL!

Hope you feel better.

Silver Member

Username: Simplymcintosh

Post Number: 176
Registered: Jan-05

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 08:50 am:

LOL. I think last night's impulse buy may have been a lingering effect of a migraine blurring the decision making process. It's a good thing I was able to sell the other equipment on eBay. Will now have to sell the remaining NAD/B&W combo.

John A.

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2879
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 09:23 am:

Sorry for the down-time. I have been locked in a castle in the Bavarian Alps since Sunday. Escaped yesterday. Reached home last night. An alert passport control officer in Munich airport wanted to know why mine was issued in Stockholm. Fortunately, I was able to steal his motorcycle, and leap a barbed-wire fence, to freedom. Vodafone now charge for WiFi access at Munich airport. The castle itself had one internet connection for 250 people. They will stop at nothing, those guys.

Thanks for the Mac mini recommendation, SM; it counts. Thanks for the photos. I will consider one of these seriously.

I think REL has the right approach to subs. The Neutrik connector, as I understand it, takes the output from the main channels to the sub, where there is a crossover, and then returns the signal with the frequencies that are NOT reproduced by the sub to the main speakers. You can choose that "Crossover frequency", according to the capability of the main speakers. The aim is to EXTEND the bass response, not to exaggerate it. REL used to have an informative article on their web site, but the site is re-designed, has frames (harrumph) and I can no longer find it. www.rel.net

This is the sort of sub I would choose to go with Quad ESLs etc.

If the REL hums;

1. Is the source electronic or mechanical? (Sometimes loose transformers can buzz)

2. Does the gain control affect the hum?

3. Does the crossover setting affect the hum?

As I wrote to Larry a while ago, try the corssover setting very close to the lower limit of the main speakers. Wasn't it 57 Hz? Then the mains are workiing as designed.

On my cheaper sub, it hums if I have the crossover set above about 120 Hz, and the intensity becomes greater the higher the setting. But at 100 Hz it is almost imperceptible. At 50 Hz there is no hum.

Re migraine, Mrs A discovered some years ago that a sure trigger, for her, is red wine and chocolate in the same meal. By avoiding that combination, she has not had one for years. And she used to get them real bad.

Larry,

Willard White was "Porgy" in that wonderful production and DVD-V we discussed. I was not meaning what you thought I was meaning. My fault, I am sure. No time right now. Will come back to it. Briefly, I do not think there is such a thing as "more evolved". Big topic; off topic.

My Rantz,

Thank you for the link. Yes, Linn Records has gone the SACD route. Like BIS, and some other "Classical" specialist labels. I think SACD has been successfully promoted as the natural, and only, successor to CD.

So far, there is nothing in the SACD catalogue which I am unhappy at not being able to play. I will keep my eye on things, though. The Mercury and "Living Stereo" 3-channel would be interesting to hear, just to evaluate.

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1552
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 10:06 am:

Dogs

Audio Hell - the weakest link! My brother sent me this somewhat humorous article in hard copy - if interested go to:

http://www.soundstage.com/audiohell/audiohell200208.htm

Larry R

Silver Member

Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 764
Registered: Oct-04

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 11:17 am:

Good Grief! Turn my computer off for a few hours and what does SM do but go stereo-nutz! (grin) Well, after reading about your new purchase(s) all I can do is wish you luck! I'm a bit amazed, though, that you're getting a "plain" CD player and not one that plays SACDs or DVD-As. . .
I'm sure that Kegger will agree with me on the tube amp - you can't go wrong with a beautiful BLUE on-lite like yours will have! (grin)

Still awaiting word from Yamaha - been three weeks now since I sent it off. . . meanwhile, the "word" is seeping out on various stereo forums: be careful with the S1500/5770 - here's an example from AVForum:
- - - - - - -
Good, but this product never should have made it to market. Very noisy transport especially when playing CDs. I don't know if this was an individual flaw or if it is a defect of the unit in general. My guess is the latter. I did not want to go through the trouble of taking a second unit back.

Strengths:
Good detailed sound. As expected from a Yamaha. Very decent picture quality.

Weaknesses:
Horribly loud transport buzzing when playing most audio CDs and certain DVDs. Takes a noticably long time to read when the disk is inserted. It takes longer than it takes for the Yamaha CDX2 CD player to read a CD (a CD player Yamaha made 20 years ago).

- - - - - - -

The noise, plus strange drop-outs and level changes made me send it back. My fault, I guess, for getting a "new" model of anything. Unfort fer me, I was bound by some money constraints, or I probably would have gone with a Denon 3910. Or a Pioneer Elite 59AVI.

If the Yammie acts up when I get it (or a new one?) back - I may have to go the route of the ill-fated computer printer in the movie: "Office Space." If y'all saw it, the chaps finally take it out to a field and stomp and beat it into a million pieces! And to think (shame) that Mer and I laughed uproareously during the scene!

More anon. . .

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1557
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 11:26 am:

Hi Larry - Was wondering about your Yammie. Hope it comes home in good health. SM does have DVD_A and SACD via the Denon DVD-2200 universal player - Between you and I think she's going for a kit in each room. LOL!

Have those cute little 'uns arrived yet?

[grin]

Larry R

Silver Member

Username: Larry_r

Naples, FL

Post Number: 765
Registered: Oct-04

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 12:20 pm:

MR - no "li'l ones" yet - so I have to follow in Rick's footsteps and rub my cones until I have some other form of roundness with which to connect, so to speak. Sigh.

Hope all is well with your sound system, my friend! I just want you to know that I have NO inclinations toward upgrading anything - except, of course, maybe, uh, possibly, that is, in the future, probably - the Yammie. (grin)

Sem

Silver Member

Username: Sem

New York
USA

Post Number: 434
Registered: Mar-04

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 01:12 pm:

Larry,

quote:
If the Yammie acts up when I get it (or a new one?) back - I may have to go the route of the ill-fated computer printer in the movie: "Office Space." If y'all saw it, the chaps finally take it out to a field and stomp and beat it into a million pieces! And to think (shame) that Mer and I laughed uproareously during the scene!

Amusing little movie especially for those of us in a similar office environment as Initech. I have the dvd and its made the rounds here at work. Most of my co-workers can really relate but for some reason my manager didn't quite get it.

Uuuuuuummm yeaaaaaaaah...I'm going to have to go ahead and agree with you on that and say I enjoyed that movie. :-)

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2005 - 02:20 pm:

When I worked at Pacific Stereo, people would bring their BSR and Garrard changers in to trade for a new turntable. The blue book assessed the value of the tables at $0 which was a bit disappointing to the owner who thought their $59 turntable should still be worth at least $50 after ten years. (I saw the same idea when I sold cars for a while.) The manager of the store liked guns and would offer the prospective new turntable owner $10 and he would use the old piece as target practice. I understand a Beezeer will explode quite nicely when struck by a .45 caliber bullet. Apparently a stack of BeeGee's records adds to the excitement.

Larry, you might want to haul the Yamaha down to the local gun range and offer it for sacrifice as long as you get to watch. Put in an early DG disc.