Archive through January 21, 2005

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1986
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 02:00 pm:

Not that it matters but I agree with the whole post jan!
And have been saying very simular things.

_____________________________________________-

Since we have just about every area of audio out their now. we seem
to be in a transition of actually getting to good sounding audio instead
of what just the manufacturers want to push at us.
"except for some who believe surround or hi rez is not all that"

They can't really push what we don't because we will go elsewhere
to someone who will.

sure theres a lot of non educated people out there that will buy whatever.
but so many have been educated in what sounds better that I believe the
companies have no choice but to give us quality!

And like jan said many speaker manufacturers have realized they need good quality
sounding effecient speakers, that we are now starting to see some. "also the tech behind speaker design has grown"

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 693
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 05:24 pm:

A quote I found along the way on my tube knowlege quest.............

"The musical dread of transistor and digital audio is that they have so little tuneability."

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1988
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 05:50 pm:

Rick that's the part I like but can drive others crazy!

"Tuning your system with tubes"

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1989
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 05:54 pm:

For me that's where you can dial in your speakers so to speak.

Some will say their speakers are to bright or to laid back or the system in
general is like that. With tube rolling you can change that.

But for some it could be never ending and lead to madness!
I like it. lot easier for me to tweak!

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 694
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 06:19 pm:

Yes, I agree, but that's what makes the flat-earthers crazy. They will point to the numbers and the measurements. Tubes seem to only measure well with ears, not lab scopes.

PS-I'm long past worrying about madness, that set in years ago. LOL!

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 01:29 pm:

Rick, my best words of advise are to pay attention to two things when choosing what to buy. In any amplifier the power supply is the heart of the product. In a tube amplifier the transformers are the key to good performance. If you can find a product that spends time and effort on those two areas without sounding like they are trying to reinvent the wheel, you should have a good system.

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 698
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 03:19 pm:

Thank you Jan. I have decided to go for the Jolida 102B. I have heard great things said about the sound of the EL84 tubes. I just hope I'm not underpowering the Spendors even at moderate listening levels. I am going to order it from Response Audio. They are here in New York State, seem very dedicated to tubes, and are doing some interesting mod work. Check out the site if you get a chance and tell me what you think.

www.responseaudio.com

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2579
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 03:50 am:

Good luck, Rick! Please tell us your impressions.

I, too, would be concerned at going to 25 W per channel. The 202A at 40 W would be safer from this point of view. If I recall, you have the Spendor S3/5, an 8 Ohm speaker rated at 84 dB for 1 W at 1m. That is low sensitivity by today's standards.

If the Jolida 102B works well for you, this will be really useful to know.

bluntman420

Unregistered guest

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 04:28 am:

hey...one quick question....i have 2 alpine type r 12" subs...i also bought 2 alpine mrd-m501 amps.now i was only planning on running 1 to both instead of 1 to each but i found them at www.ikesound.com 245.00, and that seemed to be a good deal to me. now what im wondering is if the rms is 300 and im pushing 550rms watts to it do ya think its to much for these little alpines?...thanks for any replies...

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1992
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 04:39 am:

bluntman420 ARE YOU SMOKING BLUNTS!

You need to ask these questions in the car audio forum not home audio!

No one here will know the answer to your question but someone in car audio might!

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 11:41 am:

This alone gets Response Audio my vote for good guys:

http://www.responseaudio.com/real%20stereo.htm

Kegger, you might find this interesting:

http://www.responseaudio.com/modified%20products.htm

Rick, this sounds like a very good place to start your new life as a tube-o-phile.

Silver Member

Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 531
Registered: Apr-04

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 07:46 pm:

tiptoe, tiptoe, tiptoe.....what's this, a new thread? <wink>

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 699
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 08:13 pm:

Ghia,

Where have you been girl? We missed you! It's great to hear from you.

Yes a new thread. Read through if you can, and if any questions, ask away.

Cheers!

Really glad to hear from you............

Silver Member

Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 532
Registered: Apr-04

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 09:20 pm:

Thanks for the sentiments, Rick! I've been lurking on the boards instead of posting.

Great information in this thread. I've learned a little bit about triodes and pentodes and tube rolling etc. Who knows, maybe I'll follow in your footsteps (again!) and try out a tube amp at some point. I look forward to your thoughts on the Jolida amp and how it compares to your Mac/Spendor experience.

As y'all know, I'm extremely pleased with the Mac experience so much so that it replaced the NAD a/v receiver as my main system. Nothing about that has changed. But, lately, I've been wondering if I'm getting the best music presentation out of the source, the Denon DVD-2200 universal player.

For now, I'm considering a tube CD player to pair with the MA6200. The Jolida JD-100A is what I have in mind (ironically, I was already looking into that model before I found this thread). Any thoughts on this strategy or the benefits/cons of the Jolida vs the Denon universal I currently have?

Raymond Plummer

New member

Username: Raymond

Post Number: 9
Registered: Nov-04

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 10:08 pm:

Hey Kegger...just returned from out of town....looooong thread haven't caught up yet. Not sure if you already have the Spendor speakers. To let you know I have just audition the Spendor 5se. Much positive press about it. It is the smallest of the tower Spendor line. Very nice and smooth and I think more efficient than the model you are considereing. However I found it a little restrained with the (non tube) gear they were using to demo it. That characteristic was also mentioned by Martin Colloms(?) of the 6se so it a design characteristic of the line. Be careful...with the Jolida you may find the sound too relaxed and round. I prefer a bit more bite!! All the Spendor line are very nice and have the BBC heritage. Bottom line, be sure you listen to the Spendors in your room with the Jolida before committing...just trying to warn you!!

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2581
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 11:06 pm:

Raymond,

It is Rick who has the Spendors. I agree that a home trial is essential in this case.

I wonder if you know of the PrimaLuna and "The Affordable Valve Company" - see my post above on Dec 6?

Tube/valve amps seem to be specific to different regions, and not just the name. Papworth and Walrus Systems seem interesting from UK viewpoint. The TVA-8 is SE design and 15 W per channel, with infra-red gain control (one of the useful modern features in my opinion). Your comment about trying one applies even more with 15 W pc. Can one audition valve/tube amps at home?

Papworth also do monoblocks.

I note that Papworth use McIntosh circuitry.

Ghia,

Welcome!

Jan,

The links bring back the original "Old Dogs" question. Let me state my position again, and here.

Stereo is wonderful, I agree. But it arranges the sound sources along a line; which is not what you hear at a performance, usually.

If you have 4.0, you have the possibility of stereo on each of four sides. Which actually corresponds to what you hear at a real performance. Mostly.

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2582
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 11:23 pm:

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2584
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 11:27 pm:

Sorry about that. I checked before clicking "Post" a second time, and the first was not there, then.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1993
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 01:09 am:

Raymond Plummer as john said it is rick who has the spendors, good to hear yu pop in.
Are you considering spendors?

Ghia good to hear from you to, glad you found us!

well guys/gals I've done it again, bought another speaker!

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=365&s=specs

Yes I know it's a center, I've wanted to try this ever since I got
my rc-7 center, and I found one local while searching audiogon for
half what I paid for mine and it's basicly new!
"sorry if any of my wording is stranger than usual just got home from work party!"

A pair of rc-7 centers standing up in an mtm configuration for stereo!

Anyways I had been perusing the klipsch forums as many use tubes on
there speakers if not just for the sens of the spk'rs but other's. "maybe to taim the horns"
And I've come accross a few doing what I wanted to try, with what sounds to be
some incredable success. The only real change that needs to be done is
the center horn rotated 90 degrees so it disperses just like it would
if it was laying down, because now you stand it up and it becomes one heck
of an MTM cabinet that truly rocks."the horn is square so no mods just rebolt"

From what I've been able to gather this is the only 8" driver klipsch
mated to what is suppose to be a far superior horn than most of the line.
Well after moving the horn and putting them on stands and filled in with
a fast set of subs from 50hz on down,
These things are way smoother than I had expected!
"most say it's the horn used on this setup"

I'm using the rouge amp 35watt triode 6550 tubes!
This may be just what I've been serching for, "need more listening"
But so far these produce fast and articulate with no hint of strain!
Imaging seems extremly good too, with 98db and dual 8" woofers these baby's
are producing drum snairs like no ones buisness, truly amazing.
The drivers are very light/rigid and fast, combo that with the horn
and my 10 subs powered by solid state, then mate the speakers to a quality
tube amp and you've got something special.

Right now I'm in heaven. Yu know how when you turn a system up it seems to take
on a different sound? Thats what is strange with this setup! It sounds the
same no matter how much volume you give it. Just gets louder when you turn it up.
And at normal listening levels every thing is heard very clear without
any strtain on the system or yourself! These horns are unlike any I've heard.
They don't have that traditional horn sound they just sound lively!

Well just thought I would share that with you guy's, As I think It may
be something really really amazing.

Peace, Keg out!

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2585
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 06:34 am:

Great stuff, Kegger. Amazing: a center horn. Horn speakers are another contentious issue, that's all I know. I suppose they sort of go with valves/tubes because of their high efficiency. I learn something new here every day.

Silver Member

Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 533
Registered: Apr-04

Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 08:13 am:

Hey, no advice on pairing a tube CD with the Mac? I guess I'll have to wait for Jan to sign on.

Kegger, what is an mtm configuration? Couldn't the center be used as stereo in its horizontal position? What kind of sound does Klipsch deliver and what type of music is it's best suit?

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 701
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 10:15 am:

Ghia,

Sounds like a great idea. I often thought I would go that route when my CAL dies. The Jolida sounds like a great unit. You may want to check out the NJOE TJOEB player that all the critics are raving about. They are calling it a reference quality tube player for $699.

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1994
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 11:03 am:

Ghia I've been looking at tube cd players for awhile.

The only problem is how do you know they implement a tube into
the design that actually benefits and not just throw it in there to
say it has a tube.

That's the reason I havn't pulled the trigger yet!
I don't know who is actually implementing the tube in a way that's
actually doing something. I'd like to try one of the lesser expensive ones.
I'm sure if you went with a major brand that was fairly expensive it's done right.
But I allways try to find the bang for the buck guy in the crowd and right
now I don't know who that is.

Two names I have heard are what both you and rick suggested I'd imagine
both those companies have it done right.
(Jolida JD-100A - NJOE TJOEB )

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1996
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 11:29 am:

MTM or D'Appolito array means Midwoofer-Tweeter-Midwoofer it's quite the
rage in the speaker building community.

The reason why you'd want to stand up the center is:
Orientation should be vertical for best sound, as with any speaker. Any array
of drivers (even if it's just a woofer and tweeter) along a line will exhibit "lobing"
(off-axis frequency response unevenness caused by interference patterns between
the drivers) along that line. Keeping the alignment on a vertical line puts the offending
anomalies above and below the speaker (the least offensive place for them).

Yes, that goes for center channel speakers, too. The only reason they're horizontal
is to fit ontop a TV. It's a poor tradeoff, but many don't want to stick a traditional
speaker standing up onntop of there tv.

here's a little exerpt from a well known speaker sight.
"The dual woofer design, pioneered by the esteemed Joe D'Appolito (hence the term 'D'Appolito configuration') has better efficiency and power handling than a traditional monitor-style two-way. For those of you new to building your own speakers, MTM refers to the front baffle configuration where you have the speakers arrangement comprising "midwoofer - tweeter - midwoofer". This type of arrangement is widely accepted as having significant improvements over single woofer designs, at the expense of the larger cabinet size and (of course) the extra speakers."
"D'Appolito-style MTM configuration can produce a high-quality speaker with good sensitivity, excellent dynamics, and very musical, full-range response."

Gold Member

Username: Kegger

MICHIGAN

Post Number: 1997
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 12:10 pm:

Klipsch speakers generally are known for their upper mid and tweeter response.
They are very fast and effecient "mainly from the horn"

Some do not like the sound of the horn it can give a megaphone effect.

I believe Jan is not all that fond of them.

In the earlier days they were called honkers as the megaphone effect was worse.

Todays klipch speakers do not exhibit this honkyness in the upper lines
of the newly designed serieses. As you go up in price and quality on the
horn and tweeter they really produce some of the best sound in the upper
frequencies I've heard! VERY LIVELY!
They still have the traditional klipsch sound but as you go up in quality
those traits seem to deminish quite rapidly.

Because of this configuration klipsch uses, the upper midrange and high frequencies
of the speakers are very effecint and fast so they also need the rest of the
speaker to have these charicteristics.
The reference line of todays klipsch speakers does this really well.
Now the combination of the rc-7 being an mtm when stood up and the dual
8"drivers along with the better horn/tweeter combo "of the top units"
Makes these an excelent choice for main speakers.
because they are effecient makes them a choice for tube amps.

my impression of what my klipsch sound like is ever so slightly, very slight
rise in the top end with an overall non colorization to the sound with exceptional speed/dynamics.
Very flat overall with an ever so slightly rise in top end and drop at about 45hz

I have some of the lower models in the reference lines too as rears and surrounds.
They do not have the same sonic signature as the rc-7's do.
"more of the standard klipsch sound"

overall I would describe klipsch as effecint/dynamic with an
emphasys on the high end.

The more you spend or the better quality of the klipsch speaker you choose
the better quality horn and tweeter are used. Which can make a huge difference
in weather or not you like the sound.

with these rc-7's and the larger horn they do not sound like one
would think from a traditional klipsch speaker. They are so much smoother
on the top end. "as many have described in the klipsch forums"

Other things that have been said about klipsch is they have a raspiness
to the sound they produce, which some hate and some love!
The rc-7's "and maybe the larger horn in general this is deminished"
It's quite possable klipsch lovers may prefer other horns as they produce
more of the traditional klipsch sound.
But for me this is a major step in the right direction.

Raymond Plummer

New member

Username: Raymond

Post Number: 10
Registered: Nov-04

Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 01:18 pm:

Sorry for the misdirected response on the Spendors, blame it on jet lag. Yes Papworth are a very nice valve line with good reputataion in England over the long hall...also using designer Tim de Pavaracini's work. Also in the Absolute Sound in their Nov or Dec issue I saw a positive review of another tube amp coming in at a resonable price. Here is the problem we are all facing. I refer to it as "System Synergy". Much taked about but reliant on access to good local dealers and your personal tastes. If I were in "let's build a system from scratch mode" today I would look for the sound I like best by visiting dealers, audio shows and fellow audio nuts homes. Every designer voices his gear to his personal preferences. Find out which voices you like and identify which you don't. The only real way is to set some up front criteria. If you like the SET sound I'd say you like clarity, hyper reality(small scale,) detail and the being there effect. I've said before I get more clarity and detail from my system than when I go to the DSO, LPO, Sydney Opera House, or listen in Westminster Cathedral, York Minster or Cranbrook or Lichfield Cathedral...at least where I am sitting. For small scale acoustics, baroque, chamber...I can still get nearer to the real thing but diminishing returns are kicking in big time. Recognize the disease!!! Similarly Luducrous, Outcast "shake YOU" like a polaroid...meaning hurt my body my organs...ouch!! The organ at Litchfield does not. I decided I don't want/like that hyper bass, but that what there concert sounds like.

So focus on what you are looking for. Then build the bricks to achieve it. Every piece matters...but don't let it take over your life...it's the music right!!

In the early days NAD and Linn were my discovery through a dealer that built my first system with me. My Mordaunt Short speakers were the window to what they provided. As I upgraded to the EAR 859 I got more of everthing...specially the detail/clarity of an SET and my tastes in music evolved too. More of some types..less of the heavy stuff, though I still enyoy it. Steve McCormick fit the bill after a two year search for a cd player I could live with. Now to solve the next window, the speakers. Getting out the windex what can I find...what ever it is it can only be tested in my home. So bottom line, as you get more exposure(no pun intended, but nice integrated amps) to the gear the picture will become clearer. But be prepared to travel, invest in shipping, return/restocking and read/research feverishly. Talk to dealers out of state. I'm in the dodrums right now as I have gone beyond my local daelers resources and family/Xmas calls on time I can devote. Will keep you posted. Any high efficiency speaker suggestions for a 13 watt SET will continue to be appreciated. Have not heard the Klipsch horn stuff, RF 35 and 7 still too bright for right now...perhaps I'll revisit. Happy Holidays!!

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 12:22 pm:

Ghia - I don't have any comments on your desire to change the source, but, I do have a question. What are you trying to achieve? My meaning is somewhat the synergy that Raymond talks about.
I have described various pieces of high end audio as neutral with a personality. Every company will have a slightly different sound than a competitor that comes from the designer's idea of what music sounds like - to them. One company will produce a product that is somewhat brighter, darker, faster, more expressive, more restrained, forward, recessed, expansive, focussed, tonally correct, etc., and, if all these personalities click in one system you can have tremendously good sound (and sometimes for little money spent). When I was selling I found it was often a matter of getting the client to understand what they were expecting that eventually led them to this synergy. To get to what they were expecting we had to go through what they had been hearing or not hearing.

(And here I'll make another pitch for a reference of live music. It was much easier to find that synergy when someone described what they were hearing in a live performance and then missing at home than it was to have someone describe what they wanted in terms of just their hifi. [I often got the impression they were regurgitating reviews.] It was easier to get them the synergy they wanted even though they found the hifi could never really recreate the live event. But for those that sought the best hifi, it could become a long journey through the various personalities they could find. That's my experience and may not apply to everyone.)

If they had a clear idea of where they were and where they wanted to be, it was much easier to get to that point with minimal side tracking.
So I would have to ask what makes you think the Denon isn't doing what you desire since it has received good reviews from most of the press and people who own one. Not that reviews are what make a component good or bad, but, once you have reached a level of "goodness" it becomes more difficult to say where you should go to find an improvement. The fellow who drives into the the dealership in a Ford Pinto has a very good chance he'll drive out in something better. The Ferrari driver has a better chance of finding something equally as good but just different in personality with an Aston Martin, Porsche or Lamborghini.

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 05:27 pm:

http://www.papworthaudio.demon.co.uk/tva50spc.html

Klaatu barada nikto!!!

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 708
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 05:34 pm:

Very nice looking amp Jan.

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 06:41 pm:

From "The Baker's Journal":

http://www.nzbakingsociety.co.nz/dean7.html

"Ciabatta

Having recently observed the various attempts at ciabatta at the Inaugural ANZBake Bake-off in Christchurch, I thought I�d share one of my own formulations which I have adapted from a book call Artisan Baking Across America by Maggie Glazer.

I know there are many recipes for this product, but I am simply amazed that nearly everyone makes excuses to why theirs is like a flat white loaf of bread.

Why aren�t they striving for perfection?"

That's what I'd like to know. Why?

My Rantz

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1174
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 07:06 pm:

This isn't about bread bake offs but I read that this group in Hong Kong have a good reputation for tube kits etc. For all you insufferable tube fanatics :-)

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 710
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 07:28 pm:

Jan,

Now I would like to know as well........WHY?

Rantz,

I would also like to know why you are lurking about tube diy sites? Are we getting a little curious?

My Rantz

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1175
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 07:41 pm:

Rick,

Not on your life! I couldn't be happier with my lot.

I came across the link by accident and thought some of you old fogies might be interested in a look :-}

Silver Member

Username: Rick_b

New York
USA

Post Number: 711
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 08:12 pm:

Rantz,

I appreciate you looking out for your elders. Mom would be so proud. LOL!

Jan,

Take your meds my friend. This is the audio forum, not the food forum. It doesn't matter, if you want to talk pasta, I'm in.

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:22 pm:

Music, pasta & life!!! The Real Stereo folks are out of Italy if I read correctly and they seem to be the audio equivalent of the Slow Food movement. Both are good ideas that need to be followed.

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2593
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:32 pm:

Rick,

I am to Italian cooking as fish to bicycles, but ciabatta is not pasta. Surely?

Jan,

Thanks. I cannot find a price on that gorgeous amp or its more conventionally-styled sister the TVA10. Probably it would be prudent not to delve too deeply into such questions.

Silver Member

Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 535
Registered: Apr-04

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:34 pm:

Jan,

I'm trying to achieve music nirvana. How's that for vague? :-) In part, curiosity is driving this. Reading about tube "sound" is very intriguing and compelling. Doubts about the Denon are playing a role too.

Before the Mac, I was getting terrific sound out of the NAD/MA system. The sound was clean and detailed and I knew I could put my system up against the systems of friends and it would sound better than 90% of them. But, curiosity stemming from Rick's experience with the Mac led me to give one a try. As you know, the result was dramatic. From the first listen, the music took on a new life that I never realized was missing. Hyperbole? No, not at all. It truly was captivating and intoxicating. I was drawn into the music like never before, pure and simple.

So, given that, why would I need/want to change anything? It's simple really. I'm curious about what the tube sound brings to the listening experience - but, not so curious that I would give up the MA6200. Would a tube source component have an effect similar to a tube amp?

Another factor:

- The article posted on Old Dogs about not gaining the full benefit of hi-rez formats unless separate components are used struck me. Does it not stand to reason that a player dedicated to one format (in this case, Jolida as a redbook player) would do that better than a universal player?

The Denon doubt: my DVD2200 has experienced the "washing machine vibration" described on another thread. It has only happened a couple of times but, the fact that it happened at all, planted the seed of doubt. It's similar to how getting the first dent on a new car makes it a little less special.

Maybe, within my budget, I have reached the point of diminishing returns. Maybe moving to the Jolida is nothing more than a lateral move. Unless, of course, the tube gives its output a characteristic that is different from that of the Denon. Or maybe, I need to decide what is "enough".

Silver Member

Username: Ghiacabriolet

NC

Post Number: 536
Registered: Apr-04

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:45 pm:

Kegger,

Thanks for the feedback on the Klipsch's and the MTM explanation. If there's a local dealer, I might have to check out the sound - for curiosity's sake. :-) Not sure, based on the description, if they would be to my liking. The "British sound" is generally what I prefer in a speaker.

J. Vigne

Unregistered guest

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 11:11 pm:

John - http://home.earthlink.net/~ggda/ciabatta.htm

The TVA-8 retails, according to the shop's site, at GBP 1699. That's for the SE amp. The Push-Pull amp, the TVA-10, looks to be very much the same amp as far as layout and tube compliment are concerned. I wouldn't think there would be much difference in the cost of the two amps to the manufacturer until you add in the additional cost of SE transformers. My guess wouldbe the TVA-10 probably costs about the same or slightly less than the TVA-8.

Ghia - I'll have more for you when I get more time.

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2594
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 11:29 pm:

My Rantz,

Excellent link. Thanks. I am tempted, and will think about kits.

These are UK, and more expensive:

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/kitshome.html

Ghia,

Wonderful post. That is roughly where I am, except that I have no experience of McIntosh. I have been listening more critically, and enjoying the music more, courtesy of contributors to these threads. Whether or not one thinks "hi-res" and surround sound have something to offer, and I certainly do, stereo is not going to be superseded for most practical applications, nor should it. And I still want that sense of hearing more from the CDs and LPs I already own, and from those I will, one day.

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2595
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 11:47 pm:

Jan,

Thanks. That is a bit pricey, at least for me. I missed your post while writing the previous one. Will be back.

My Rantz

Gold Member

Username: Myrantz

Post Number: 1177
Registered: Aug-04

Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 11:52 pm:

Ghia,

I posted the link below in DVD Players for prospective universal player buyers, however the reviewer speaks of the cd quality in such equipment compared to the dedicated players. The 2900 fares well and I imagine the same may be said for the 2200 but this is something I have been saying all along - on a player with so many options there is usually some trade off to keep prices out of the abnormal range. The question remains - how much does one spend on a dedicated cd player for that superb sound. About four times that of the 2900 according to the reviewer!

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_print.asp?ID=2749

http://www.iconaudio.co.uk/

Gold Member

Username: John_a

Post Number: 2596
Registered: Dec-03

Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 12:54 am: