| Author |
Thread: Archive through January 05, 2005 |
    
Silver Member Username: Larry_r
Naples,
FL
Post Number: 349
Registered: Oct-04
|
| Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 09:19 am: |
|
Ghia and John A. - fine thoughts and caring words mark both of you as "real" humanitarians. May we all have such sensitivity.
My Rantz: Sir - way down there on the other side of the world from us - our hearts go out to all of the affected people in your hemisphere. Living much closer to the disaster, I'm wondering what must be going on in your minds about now? Do you in any way stand in harm's way should another such tsunami strike? We are collectively worried.
As a side note, may I just say that - as I watch journalists from all over the world report on TV - you should be ultimately proud of your Aussie reporters. I give them and the British correspondents double-A for excellence under pressure.
MR - I'd gladly send most of our TV "journalists" down there - for training!
In watching the TV shows here, I'm appalled at all of the "chirpy" comments and smiley-faced introductions to on-scene reports.
Sir, I spent 30 years in the "trade," and I'd like to apologize for most of what I now watch on "American" TV.
I'd like to add my simple comments to what Ghia and John A. have already posted: God be with you all, and may there be no more such aweful disasters. My prayer - my hope.
More anon. . . |
|
Relevant Product Info
|
|
Gold Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 1215
Registered: Aug-04
|
| Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 04:15 pm: |
|
Larry,
I appreciate your thinking about us here down under at this terrible time. Fortunately, Australia is unaffected by the tsunamis except for those who have lost loved ones or friends. I awoke this am to read that the toll has reached 60,000 and like everyone, understand with utmost dread this number will keep increasing as more days pass.
To think we have such amazing technology at our disposal yet in that part of the world where the devastation occurred there are no warning systems. It makes one wonder what are we all doing here on this planet.
If only the world could unite so we may all look out for one another. A nice dream . . .
|
Gold Member Username: Kegger
MICHIGAN
Post Number: 2052
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 12:58 pm: |
|
for anyone who may be interested , a little fine reading on tubes!
http://home.comcast.net/~enghenry/diy/taste.pdf
(you'll nead acrobat reader , but can download it for free)
Jan I think you'll enjoy how it's written. |
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 558
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 08:21 pm: |
|
Kegger,
I'm afraid I will have to forego reading that link since I was able to weather and get past the recent Jolida tube CD/Musical Fidelity DAC temptation and don't need any more temptations. lol
How did you do in your Super Bowl? |
Gold Member Username: Kegger
MICHIGAN
Post Number: 2054
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 02:05 pm: |
|
Ghia I posted that link here because I feel anyone could benefit from
reading it weather or not your going to buy anything!
It's an educational and very intriuging read!
Congrats on your's!
Yes I won also , had double the points of the other guy! Whooo Hoooo!
Now I'm concentrating on my bowl pool! And picked against michigan for
the first time! I think they've got some really good players but there a year
or so away from being dominant! (could get lucky though the young QB is going
to be something special)
see yu!
peace out! every doggy! |
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 559
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 04:44 pm: |
|
Kegger,
My problem is I read something educational and intriguing which piques my interest and makes me spend money. lol I may revisit it when I'm feeling a little stronger about resisting the temptation.
I was glad to win my playoffs. It would have s u c k e d to finish in first place during the regular season with the most wins and most points of any team in the league but then lose the Super Bowl. lol. Do you think the boys will let me play with them next year after this?
Good luck with your bowl pool. My rotisserie season is over - except for eating chicken. |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 06:26 pm: |
|
In the "just for those who care" file, as we near the end of the year, I offer this as the Dumbest Line of the Year! (And remember this had to top Jessica Simpson telling Gale Norton, the Secretary of the Interior, "You done a wonderful job decorating the White House"; and, Rush Limbaugh referring to Abu Ghraib as "people having a good time" and the "need to blow some steam off".)
Concerning the Tsunami in S.E. Asia, and among the clatter on the radio talk shows about the US money promised for reconstruction and aid (and this was when George had only offered $2million), came the shouts of "why my money", "why should the UN be involved?" and something about how this would lead to illegal immigration that I just didn't get (I was driving the car and knew I would run it into a telephone pole should I try to comprehend that one), comes this wonderful expression of compassion and logic:
"I didn't see Sri Lanka giving us millions when we had the hurricanes!"
Anyone care to try topping that one?
|
Gold Member Username: John_a
Post Number: 2702
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 07:49 pm: |
|
Jan,
Incredible. Untoppable. No-one could make that up.
When I wrote "Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 07:00 am", no-one had any idea of the scale of the disaster, but I thought the first reports were probably cautious.
So far, the nation that has handled this with greatest dignity, compassion, and common sense, as far as I can see, is India. They have massive losses themselves, and are still down there in Sri Lanka doing more than anybody else, just because they know they are their little neighbour's only hope. Also, the pro rata aid from Canada, so far, should make Americans think hard, in my view. What's the relative population and GDP of Canada compared to the US? 10%?
I am waiting for my first scam e-mail about disaster relief. I have a good idea where it will originate.
But let no-one try to score points on this one. It is humanity's problem. That means all of us. Let us forget our differences and insecurities, and just do something. Anything. I have seen Oxfam at work, before, and, personally, chose them. Others may have other ideas. The auditors can calculate GDP percentages later, as far as I am concerned. There are more important things right now. |
Silver Member Username: Ojophile
ON
Post Number: 204
Registered: Jun-04
|
| Posted on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 10:22 pm: |
|
I couldn't help thinking...if the tsunami tragedy had happened to France or Canada, or any other nation that refused to go along with GWB's plan to invade Irag, then that asinine remark that Jan heard on the radio would or could have gained some support from misguided patriots, not to mention the Jon Stewarts, the Jay Lenos, and the David Lettermans who are always looking for an opportunity to throw darts at other countries.
I think that in the course of dealing with this human tragedy, there is absolutely no room for reciprocity. What is more important is our unconditional charity that is measured not in dollars, but in our individual capacities to help our fellow members of this global society that we call the human race.
To those who cry, "Why my money?!", my reply is, "Why their lives?"
|
|
|
Gold Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 1220
Registered: Aug-04
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 01:05 am: |
|
"Anyone care to try topping that one?"
Two days after the tsunamis there was a news interview here with a fellow getting off a plane after fleeing the devastation somewhere in Indonesia. All he could do was criticise the Howard government for not acting swift enough in sending planes. This poor fellow who arrived home safe and sound with all his family intact was obviously upset he had to pay for the flight. Poor sod - how my heart goes out to him.
That may not top yours Jan but I do wonder about the selection process of who survives these disasters.
To all:
I hope you all have peace, happiness and good health in 2005.
|
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 560
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 09:51 am: |
|
Count me in as one who was disgusted by the US's initial paltry aid offering. Everything the Bush administration is doing now has the appearance of "reactive" instead of "proactive". Yet another example of the overall cluelessness of the Bushies. Even with the increase of the aid to $35 million it is an embarassment not only based on GDP but also in comparison to the estimated cost to inaugrate Bush which is expected to be $30-40 million excluding security costs. In the long run, I believe the US contribution will be far greater than what is currently promised but the damage has already been done.
But, what doesn't get counted in the US aid package is the contributions millions of Americans are likely to give to organizations such as the Red Cross. Despite the underwhelming efforts of the US government and despite the idiocy of provincial nimcompoops espousing selfish, racist hatred, I believe the vast majority of Americans do care about this tragedy and want to assist. Unfortunately, it's the idiots who get the attention.
If you are interested in contributing to organizations who have lower overhead costs, you can find a list of "reputable" charities here. These folks won't scam anyone.
God bless everyone.
|
Gold Member Username: John_a
Post Number: 2705
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 10:29 am: |
|
Well said, Ghia.
The Red Cross is a good choice. I donated through www.oxfam.co.uk
People may rightly choose to go through their national agencies, since it seems what each country gives is being counted. Also, there is no doubt that some parasites will cash in on this, so it makes sense to wish to know which are reputable agencies. There is a consortium of trusted aid organisations from a UK perspective: www.dec.org.uk
In the national league tables of aid in today's news, one, the smallest, moved me immensely. If they can give, anyone can. From todays "The Times" (without permission);
 |
Gold Member Username: John_a
Post Number: 2706
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 10:40 am: |
|
Well said, Don and MR, too. I meant to include that, above. The world must thank your countries; they did not "look over their shoulders", they just did it. Apart from the cash, they are sending transport planes, equipment, medical supplies, emergency teams, etc. Clean water is going to be a big factor if as many lives are not to be lost again from collapse of infrastructure and infectious disease. |
BillY BoB , good ol us of a Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 01:10 pm: |
|
Does the U.S. allways have to come to the aid of other countries regardless of
how it's economy is doing?
How much aid is enough? Should it be measured in dollars?
What country should react first in a crisis?
Should the U.S. just be assumed to contribute?
Should the U.S. take care of other countries before itself?
If the U.S. has a disaster do other countries contribute?
This is all well and good when a poor country has problems and others
step in to help , everyone should, but to judge how one does it is wrong.
The U.S. has been contributing to foreign aid more than any other country!
Now if by chance they stand back a little and let others do more there chastised for it!
How much can one country do?
I'm not saying the U.S. should do nothing, but you can only strech yourself
so far before you can't do anyone any good.
And maybe you need to let other countries help more than you on some.
Not saying that the U.S. is the only big contributor, but sometimes you need
to swallow your pride and let others do a little more.
The U.S. is a great country but sometimes sticks it's neck out a little
farther then maybe it should! For it's own good and others! |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 01:28 pm: |
|
"but sometimes you need
to swallow your pride and let others do a little more."
Uh, ??????????????????????????????????????? |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 01:43 pm: |
|
http://www.truthout.com/
Just the pictures. Please click on "big picture" to see the details of what they show.
My original comment was meant only to show the ignorance of one comment. I was not trying to make any political statement. My politics are well known to the other old dogs, and they surely know I read, and believe, what this referenced site posts. That has nothing to do with why I suggest you go to the site. It, like a few newspapers, have no problem showing images that might be disturbing to some poeple's sensibilities. The editorial comment of this site is not my purpose for directing you to it. The images are simple facts of why "swallowing our pride" alone is a well chosen path.
|
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 561
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 02:00 pm: |
|
BillyBob,
You're welcome to contribute to this if you like but, please, get your facts straight.
BillyBob wrote: The U.S. has been contributing to foreign aid more than any other country!
This misinformed opinion reinforces a well-thought out post I read this morning by Juan Cole about the lack of understanding about absolute numbers and per capita numbers:
"Second, Bush is an MBA, so he knows very well the difference between absolute numbers and per capita ones. Let's see, Australia offered US $27 million in aid for victims of the tsunami. Australia's population is about 20 million. Its gross domestic product is about $500 billion per year. Surely anyone can see that Australia's $27 million is far more per person than Bush's $35 million. Australia's works out to $1.35 per person. The US contribution as it now stands is about 9 cents per person.....
....Bush's underlining of the $2.5 billion he says the United States gave in emergency humanitarian aid last year annoyed the hell out of me. He said it was 40% of such monies given by the industrialized world. But the US is the world's largest economy, and neither on a per capita basis nor as a percentage of GDP is that very much money.
Bush said "billion" as though it were an astronomical sum. But he spends a billion dollars a week in Iraq, without batting an eye. That's right. Two weeks of his post-war war in Iraq costs as much as everything the US spent on emergency humanitarian assistance in 2003 for all the countries in the world....
....The US Federal budget in 2004 consists of about $1.8 trillion in receipts and $2.3 trillion in expenditures. The 2003 official development assistance budget was $15 billion (a very large portion of which goes to countries that don't need the assistance, and is given for strategic reasons). That is about 0.14 percent of the US GDP. Norway, in contrast, spends $2 billion a year on humanitarian assistance, which comes to almost a full 1.0 percent of its GDP.
BillyBob wrote: What country should react first in a crisis?
It's not a matter of who reacts first, it's a matter of reacting period! This is an enormous tragedy that affects the entire world and, as the Super Power, the US has a responsibility, as well a moral obligation, to reach out. It's not just about money either. It's the right thing to do. It's about making a gesture to show you empathize with those who have been affected. Much the same way the rest of the world reached out to the US after 9/11 in case you've forgotten.
BillyBob wrote: Should the U.S. just be assumed to contribute?
YES. That's the American way. At least it used to be.
BillyBob wrote: Should the U.S. take care of other countries before itself?
The US has an amazing self-preservation ability. We can take care of ourselves and still have more left over to help others.
BillyBob wrote: If the U.S. has a disaster do other countries contribute?
YES. I don't know if monetary contributions were made but people around the world showed empathy and offered prayers and symbolic support. Things that came very late from our government in the tsunami tragedy. It took 4 days for our President to break away from brush-clearing and biking to make a public statement. Contrast that with the German chancellor canceling his vacation to attend to this - even if it was more of a symbolic move he had enough wits to understand how one is perceived.
BillyBob wrote: Not saying that the U.S. is the only big contributor, but sometimes you need
to swallow your pride and let others do a little more.
How magnanimous!
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 02:05 pm: |
|
Just for those who care:
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/world/worldspecial4/
Go to multimedia on the right of the page, click photos. If you need help getting into the site, use ID: 28297300, Password: smokey1.
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 02:11 pm: |
|
This is political. Anyone not sharing my views should be advised to move on.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/30/opinion/30thu2.html?incamp=article_popular_1&p agewanted=print&position=
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 02:15 pm: |
|
"How much aid is enough? Should it be measured in dollars?"
Billy, my boy, I have to agree with you on this one. With what George has done to the dollar, it doesn't buy much against other currencies anymore. How about we measure it in Euro's and see how much our contribution adds up to.
|
BillY BoB , good ol us of a Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 02:58 pm: |
|
"Second, Bush is an MBA, so he knows very well the difference between
absolute numbers and per capita ones. Let's see, Australia offered US
$27 million in aid for victims of the tsunami. Australia's population
is about 20 million. Its gross domestic product is about $500 billion
per year. Surely anyone can see that Australia's $27 million is far
more per person than Bush's $35 million. Australia's works out to
$1.35 per person. The US contribution as it now stands is about 9
cents per person.....
.....Bush's underlining of the $2.5 billion he says the United States
gave in emergency humanitarian aid last year annoyed the hell out of
me. He said it was 40% of such monies given by the industrialized
world. But the US is the world's largest economy, and neither on a per
capita basis nor as a percentage of GDP is that very much money."
Yes that shows that the U.S. did not contribute as much on this one as others!
That's the whole thing, the U.S. has been contributing more than any
other country in the past, now if it doesn't contribute as much or more
than others on this it's wrong?
So the U.S. should allways contribute more?
Your right The U.S. is spending a ton of cash in iraq every day.
Because you or others may believe the U.S. should not be there then your
saying we should pull the troops out and pay for a disaster instead?
And that's where I'm saying The U.S. is doing quite a bit and maybe letting
other countries contribute more on some things is the right thing to do!
"BillyBob wrote: If the U.S. has a disaster do other countries contribute?
YES. I don't know if monetary contributions were made but people around the world showed empathy and offered prayers and symbolic support"
Can't the U.S. do the same thing or de we have to send cash to see that
we are supportive?
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 03:44 pm: |
|
Billy, politics have stayed out of this thread for a long time. We have people of diferent persausions about their political beliefs, and we have tried to respect the difference of opinion that exists. You, however have come into this thread and decided to argue politics. I find that very bothersome. I also find it very disturbing that someone who has never appeared on this thread now decides, as Billy Bob, to make the issue a matter of disagreement. It seems odd to me you just happened to stumble across this thread when the discussion turned to this topic. I feel there is more to this than you let on. The ability to hide behind "Billy Bob" is too convenient.
"Because you or others may believe the U.S. should not be there then your
saying we should pull the troops out and pay for a disaster instead?"
That is the weakest attempt I have seen in a long time to disparage the comments by accusing the speaker of a nonexistent remark. You attribute your own prejudices thinking we will back down. Not likely. Your comment indicates a very poor understanding of what we are discussing and a knee jerk reaction that has been conditioned into your brain like Pavlov's dog. Bow Wow, Billy.
Please indicate (you must know how to cut and paste) where the suggestion was made that we should pull out of Iraq. If you can't, you owe Ghia an apology and an admission that you were trying to put words into her mouth that you wanted to be there for your own purposes. Are you big enough to do that, Billy boy?
You have used a poor argument to deflect the discomfort I find with your presence. As a matter of fact, you have used the dumbest remark I have heard since my original post on this topic.
If you insist on carrying on with this discussion on this thread, please make intelligent comments that are to the point of the conversation. Do not introduce your rightwing slurs without fore knowledge of their effects. They are ridiculous and only show the level of your understanding of the topic at hand.
|
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 562
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 04:07 pm: |
|
BB wrote: Yes that shows that the U.S. did not contribute as much on this one as others!
That's the whole thing, the U.S. has been contributing more than any
other country in the past, now if it doesn't contribute as much or more
than others on this it's wrong?
Wrong again! The U.S government does not contribute more than others on a per capita basis. Try again to understand the difference between "absolute numbers vs per capita numbers".
BB wrote: So the U.S. should allways contribute more?
Your right The U.S. is spending a ton of cash in iraq every day.
Because you or others may believe the U.S. should not be there then your
saying we should pull the troops out and pay for a disaster instead?
And that's where I'm saying The U.S. is doing quite a bit and maybe letting
other countries contribute more on some things is the right thing to do!
Wrong again! This isn't about Iraq vs Tsunami and no one said anything about pulling troops out of Iraq. It really sucks when people make statements such as that to imply something that was never said in the first place! Those figures were a correlation to show some perspective on how little the U.S. government is willing to spend on humanitarian efforts versus what it is wiling to (and must) spend to wage war.
BB wrote: Can't the U.S. do the same thing or de we have to send cash to see that we are supportive?
The US needs to do both. The "symbolic" part should have happened from the beginning where our president should have publicly expressed sorrow and pledged to do whatever he could to help. Doing this four days after the fact is a lost opportunity for the US to establish goodwill. Not that folks who share your views care about that.
The monetary part should occur because it is the right thing to do to help those in need. This is an event that will cost billions for recovery and most countries (and millions of individuals) are pitching in to help out and, most of those countries are giving more on a per capita basis (see above point about understanding absolute numbers vs per capita) than the US, the wealthiest nation on the planet. Just to be clear, my complaints are not about Americans. They are about the U.S government.
So, now I have a question for you, BillyBob. What's wrong with showing generosity and humanity in wake of possibly the worst natural disaster ever to have occurred in modern times?
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 04:12 pm: |
|
Billy, she beat me to it, but let me suggest one thing. You've made me mad. Take my advice, you don't want to know what happens when you make Ghia mad!
|
BillY BoB , good ol us of a Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 04:13 pm: |
|
"Please indicate (you must know how to cut and paste) where the suggestion was made that we should pull out of Iraq. If you can't, you owe Ghia an apology and an admission that you were trying to put words into her mouth that you wanted to be there for your own purposes. Are you big enough to do that, Billy boy?"
came from this!
"Bush said "billion" as though it were an astronomical sum. But he spends a billion dollars a week in Iraq, without batting an eye. That's right. Two weeks of his post-war war in Iraq costs as much as everything the US spent on emergency humanitarian assistance in 2003 for all the countries in the world...."
Yes I had stumbled accross your postings while looking at others in sacd.
What I saw was postings of people questioning the U.S. efforts and all I
really wanted to know was if everyone felt the U.S. allways has to contribute?
And if they don't how are looked upon? Well it looks like I got it.
So I will let you folks continue without me!
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 04:18 pm: |
|
I have found the more ridiculous the moniker, the less important the views of the writer. Everyone on this thread knows each other by name. Everyone except you, Billy. That is unlikely to be your name. I live in a part of the country where there are a lot of Billy Bob's, and most of them can't read, let alone type. Why don't you come clean, Billy boy, and tell us who you really are and the reason you entered this thread at this time? As long as you insist on hiding behind your dog tag, you have little to say that is of any importance.
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 04:22 pm: |
|
Billy, you are an ignorant fool!!! Good riddance.
|
BillY BoB , good ol us of a Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 04:44 pm: |
|
Oh I'm the fool for questioning or wondering!
Your the fool if you don't. And the fool who took my questions as slander.
You and others can bash the president but as soon as someone questions it
holy toledo , oh no you didn't!
So read what you believe,believe what you read.
Go support michael moore ,,,, whatever you want.
But remember this is a public board and I may come and go as I please, I'm not
one of your lap puppies you can druel into shape!
So for now I'm gone but who knows. |
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 563
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 04:54 pm: |
|
BB wrote:
quoting JV: "Please indicate (you must know how to cut and paste) where the suggestion was made that we should pull out of Iraq. If you can't, you owe Ghia an apology and an admission that you were trying to put words into her mouth that you wanted to be there for your own purposes. Are you big enough to do that, Billy boy?"
BB's actual response: "came from this!"
"Bush said "billion" as though it were an astronomical sum. But he spends a billion dollars a week in Iraq, without batting an eye. That's right. Two weeks of his post-war war in Iraq costs as much as everything the US spent on emergency humanitarian assistance in 2003 for all the countries in the world...."
BB, if you're still around, show up and tell me where, in that statement you've used as an example, anyone says to pull troops out of Iraq? I don't see it. Maybe because no one ever said so in that post.
|
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 564
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 05:13 pm: |
|
BB wrote:
Oh I'm the fool for questioning or wondering!
So, it's ok for you to "question and wonder" about whether the U.S. should help others but Jan or I (and many others if you read editorials around the US and the world) can't "question or wonder" why our government didn't do a better job of responding? Seems a little hypocritical to me.
What does Michael Moore have to do with this? Maybe be a crutch for your lack of reasonable debate?
I won't call you a fool. But, your "questioning and wondering" about the necessity for humanitarian giving leaves me with the impression that you may be a little self-centered and provincial. Not that that matters to you.
To others on the board:
My apologies that this has turned into political fisticuffs. My main point was to "question and wonder" about the U.S. response which unfortunately meant Bush's lack of response in addition to the paltry initial sum offered. I don't intend to turn this into a debate about any other aspect of his administration or policies. And, trust me, I would love to have been given a reason to have my perception of the president altered. But, the slow response and the obvious attempts to do damage control (with Powell appearing on morning talk shows, etc) left a bad impression.
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 05:29 pm: |
|
Billy boy - I repeat, you are an ignorant fool. You see only what you wish to be and ignore the facts that are in black and white before your very eyes. More of a fool there cannot be.
And to your suggestion, " ... but who knows", I would reply, obviously not you.
My apologies to all on this forum other than Billy boy. This was not my intent when I posted the original comment.
|
Gold Member Username: Kegger
MICHIGAN
Post Number: 2058
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 06:00 pm: |
|
While I'm certainly not backing billy boy's sentiments, I hait to admit I
have asked myself before if the us is spreading it'self to thin with all the
aid that it has given to other countries.
Sorry guy's and gal's just being honest. I want to help others and feel we should.
But I have wondered if maybe we have done too much at times.
That's all I have to say, don't mean to stir the pot or get a debate going. |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 06:13 pm: |
|
NOPE!
|
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 565
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 06:18 pm: |
|
Kegger,
I'm sorry, but how can there ever be "too much" help? I wish I could understand that sentiment but I can't.
|
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 566
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 06:21 pm: |
|
Well, gentlemen, it's time to get ready to ring in the new year. Hopefully, everyone has a safe, happy celebration! |
Gold Member Username: Kegger
MICHIGAN
Post Number: 2059
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 06:22 pm: |
|
Meaning where it hurts a country for the future of helping others or itself
if it extends itself to far to recover or protect itself. |
Silver Member Username: Larry_r
Naples,
FL
Post Number: 350
Registered: Oct-04
|
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 09:27 pm: |
|
Well, gang, I'm going to "wimp out" here - wishing all of you on this forum a Happy New Year, and one free of personal tragedy for each of you.
Mer won't let me get into any political frays, so all I'll say is that I hope that this horrible tragedy is a catalyst for the world to perhaps get together in one of those good old-fashioned "one for all and all for one" situations. God knows this is an example of the poorest of the poor getting dumped on Big Time!
I gave up on my hopes for a "Nirvana" on this earth a long time ago - saw too much pain and suffering with too little help that really mattered.
But - I retain a spark of hope that somehow we might eventually find a commonality of purpose. I know - that's an old man talking - but what choice do I have? I can either hope, or give up. Which I refuse to do.
So - to all of you who have grown to be a part of Mer's and my life - be thankful for what you have, for it is a lot, and be hopeful for the future, for without hope, all is lost.
HAPPY NEW YEAR FROM SWAMPVILLE! |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 09:48 pm: |
|
Kegger - I've thought about this and decided to ask you a single question. Before I do let me give a few facts which I'm certain you are already familiar with but others may need to know before they can understand my question to you. I will attempt to make my statements as apolitical as possible under the circumstances.
As a nation we are the richest country in the world and the only Superpower.
As a nation we have more billionaires than any other country.
As a nation we have allocated over $225 billion to the war in Iraq, not including operations in Afghanistan and other areas of the world. We have projections of an occupation in Iraq that might last another 20 years.
The Pentagon will cut $60 billion from its 2005 budget. That represents a cut of approximately 2 1/2%.
As a nation we have just released a federal employee tasked with handling the taxpayer's money because he failed at his job. That 55 year old man is going to make $143,000 per month for the rest of his life. His pension and stock options aren't included in that figure.
The CEO of a major New York brokerage firm made $20 million this last year, in bonuses alone.
As a nation we have an entertainer who has been dead for more than 25 years whose estate made almost $40 million last year.
Americans will spend about $2.5 billion on their pets this coming year.
The President wants to make his tax cuts permanent. They are now responsible for over 40% of the $1 trillion (that's $1,000,000,000,000) deficit we have accrued over the past four years. Over 80% of those tax cuts go to the top 5%. As the President pointed out in his campaign, rich people don't pay taxes, they are rich enough to hire lawyers.
That deficit number doesn't include the $500+ billion that will be the projected cost of the Medicare reforms. It doesn't include the projected $1 trillion to be spent on privatizing Social Security.
We have, as a nation, deployed a missile defense system that doesn't work, at unrevealed cost, against an enemy that doesn't exist.
Sales of luxury cars, homes and boats are at record levels.
We are, as a nation, so I've heard, a Christian people.
Christ said how you treat the poorest among you is how you treat Him.
The average per capita income of many of the countries stricken by this disaster is less than $350.
My question to you is this. What do you think we should do?
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 01:24 am: |
|
12:03 AM in Dallas, January 1, 2005. We made it.
|
Gold Member Username: Kegger
MICHIGAN
Post Number: 2060
Registered: Dec-03
|
| Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 04:15 am: |
|
Jan:
"My question to you is this. What do you think we should do?"
If you read my post I never said we should not help!
My statemeant was I have asked myself at one time or another "not neccaseraly right now"
If a country has or could ever go to far in aid to other countries where it
has extended it'self to far for it's own good or being able to help others in the future.
That's all no more no less!
If I had to vote weather we should help these other countries or the relief
efforts right now I would vote in favor of doing so!
But I also can admit I have my doughts as to weather or not that one
country "any country not just the us" can give all the aid it can and not be
harmed later on down the road from a catastrophie of it's own or possably
being attacked by someone else when there resources are low.
Maybe I'm thinking more into the future of what could happen instead of
what is happening but I can't help myself from doing so.
I am sorry to others if this seams self centered and maybe I should not have
put my honest feelings on this or any board.
This is me, tell it like I see it. Bash me if you want!
Like larry I try not to get into political discussions or religion and
don't really want to argue or debate this.
Just fealt the need to state my belief and hope that others would understand.
If not there is nothing I can do about it because that is how I feal.
Hope you all have a happy new year and may peace prevail.
|
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 567
Registered: Apr-04
|
| Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 09:40 am: |
|
“No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls.
It tolls for thee.”
- John Donne |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 09:52 am: |
|
Kegger - When the simple act of repealing the tax cuts to the super rich would restore billions into our government's coffers, I see little possibility of the U.S. not having the money it needs in an emergency. However, since this President refuses to take a penny away from the wealthiest in this nation to pay for his growing deficits (he is the eternal frat boy after all), I can see where you might get the impression the U.S. could be in trouble in the near future. The debt we are going to pass on to the next generations of Americans is staggering and only growing larger with each "accomplishment" of this Administration.
What you, and many others, aren't seeing is the real danger to our economic well being is more likely to come from the weakest dollar in history coupled with the false propping up of our economy by foreign interests that dislike our low return on investments. As our national and personal debt continues to grow at now record rates, should any of these foreign investors decide to call in what is owed them, the U.S. economy would likely collapse as quickly as a straw hut in the path of the oncoming tsunami. That is what I am concerned about and it is under the control of our government to deal with the problem. Neither candidate addressed this situation during the campaign and the President continues to present the American people with a sham "crisis" that will, with his proposed resolutions, only line the pockets of the ultra wealty once again. Kegger, if there is a cause for alarm, my opinion is, be alarmed at the shift in wealth that is occurring across the globe, and, the disappearance of the middle class. This is no conspiracy theory on the order of DVD-A or SACD, instead, this is quite real.
|
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 10:01 am: |
|
The U.S. has increased its commitment to aid to $350 million. While quite a substantial increase over the previous level of $35 million, this still represents about 1/3 of what was spent overall during the last election cycle. And, it is still less than the amount Americans will spend this coming year on the products and process of hair removal or teeth whitening. It is a paltry sum when compared to what we, as a nation, will spend on video games.
|
| |
