| Author |
Thread: Archive through October 04, 2004 |
    
Silver Member Username: Ghiacabriolet
NC
Post Number: 399
Registered: Apr-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 08:18 am: |
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MR wrote:
Well, if I have to buy another player I think I'll just chuck it all in, forget about music, sell the house, quit everything, and go kangaroo shooting! Oh darn it, that's right - they don't let us have guns anymore. All right, I'll take up smoking again.
Or, you could "Simplify" pickup a Mac, a turntable, use your existing CD player and enjoy 2 channel. :-) |
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Relevant Product Info
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Silver Member Username: Rick_b
New York
USA
Post Number: 503
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 08:21 am: |
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Rantz,
I vote we start with all the liberal socialist attorneys for the ACLU. I'm sure to get Jan's attention on that one................... |
Silver Member Username: Rick_b
New York
USA
Post Number: 504
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 08:33 am: |
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Than you Ghia! Finally a voice for sanity and tranquility..........simplify....simplify....must keep repeating it....... |
Silver Member Username: Two_cents
Post Number: 292
Registered: Feb-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 12:03 pm: |
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Ghia,
Got a chuckle from your post. How about this: One could simplify by chucking all one's stereo equipment and listening only to live music or making one's own music. Now that's really old school.
BTW I picked up Tift Merritt's Tambourine, which turns out to be really good. Thanks for the tip. I walked into Borders with the idea of buying the cd, realized that they were playing it in the store. Next day, I open up the New Yorker and there's a blurb on Tambourine. She and Jolie Holland seem to be popping up in unexpected places. You might be interested in a New Yorker profile on Gillian Welch in the current issue.
John A.,
Thanks for the recommendation of the Rattle/BPO DVD-V of Mahler's 5th. I will certainly look for it. It seems like a winning combination--Mahler, Rattle, the BPO at the Philharmonic. The other day I was listening to another great British conductor leading the BPO in Mahler (Barbirolli's 9th on EMI from 1964).
M.R.
Now I'm curious to hear what a kangaroo scream sounds like. In surround sound. But not on SACD, because I don't want to be a Sony/Philips stooge. |
Gold Member Username: John_a
Post Number: 2169
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 12:30 pm: |
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Two Cents,
It is two discs: a DVD-V and a DVD-A. In a DVD-V-sized box. Total cost £9.99 from HMV shop. Barbirolli must have been a guest conductor. it is incredible to me that Rattle is now the BPO principal conductor. The first foreigner ever, I think, and about as radical a departure from the old school as you could imagine. |
Silver Member Username: Two_cents
Post Number: 293
Registered: Feb-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 01:13 pm: |
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John A.,
The Rattle disc is US$23.00 at Amazon, which isn't as great a bargain as the HMV price, but still reasonable. I shall order it.
It's not surprising to me that Rattle is the BPO principal conductor. In fact, the BPO is fortunate to have him. IMO there's a dearth of great living conductors, let alone German ones. Rattle is certainly one of the great ones. I agree that he isn't old school, thank god. |
Gold Member Username: Kegger
MICHIGAN
Post Number: 1560
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 01:53 pm: |
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picked up a mono amp yesterday for my center channel,
getting closer to 7.1 tube system! lol
jan:
no real brand name on the unit "bud radio inc" inked on the inside
of steel case. acrosound 300 output transformer.
(2) 12ax7's (2) 6sn7's (2)5881's (1) el34 recifier.
mono integrated amp with phono input.
fairly clean,changed all tubes "had them" and the unit fired up.
it ran for about 15 minutes or so until one of the can caps let go.
unplgged it emediatly, i was only about 6 inches away when i heard it going.
not bad though for $20 , just needs a little tender care.
can't find much info on the amp itself but the transformers are
well documented. seems dynaco split from acrosound to
form dynaco with hafler.
the way i figure it about 20-25 watts. plenty for a
98db klipsch center channel. |
Silver Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 719
Registered: Aug-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 03:34 pm: |
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Ghia
"Or, you could "Simplify" pickup a Mac, a turntable, use your existing CD player and enjoy 2 channel."
Good try - but hi-rez surround has got me in it's spell. But I still enjoy that ordinary 2 channel stereo at times - even if without ancient last century equipment :-)
Two Cents,
"But not on SACD, because I don't want to be a Sony/Philips stooge."
Not another one! You and John have the same disease. Treatment is available guys - the only thing you have to fear is fear itself - not Sony/Philips. There is no conspiracy - only indecision :-)
Rick - LOL!
Kegger,
The countdown begins . . . neighbours beware!
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Silver Member Username: Rick_b
New York
USA
Post Number: 505
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:02 pm: |
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Rantz,
Ancient last century equipment? I've been shot through the heart. LOL!
I think some of us have found that, if you simplify, with the right vintage gear, you don't need all those channels and hi-rez to get the music right.
Ok, I pulled the pin, and set off the blast-bring on the counter attack. LOL! |
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 04:56 pm: |
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First things first!
"I vote we start with all the liberal socialist attorneys for the ACLU. I'm sure to get Jan's attention on that one..................."
OK, my first response was ..... Wh ... wh ... WH ... Snagglefrashans .... but ... Snigglebashans ... CatIshmailStevans ... wait, wait I got it .....
If you did that, who would defend that druggie Rush Limbaugh?
Better we shoot all the tax lawyers that reduce his income tax rate to about 15%. Now that's a start!!!
John - Did the second link work for you?
There is nothing worse than the sound of a kangaroo screaming - sounds human."
DID NOT NEED TO KNOW THAT!
"Or, you could "Simplify" pickup a Mac, a turntable, use your existing CD player and enjoy 2 channel."
Good idea, that CD player would keep the resonance of the table's dustcover to a minimum of you sat it on there just so.
"How about this: One could simplify by chucking all one's stereo equipment and listening only to live music or making one's own music."
Or to the voices in our heads ...
Kegger - I know Acrosound but have never heard of "bud, inc", maybe it was named after the libation Mr. Hafler was having when he designed it. Anything that plays for $20 is a good deal.
"even if without ancient last century equipment"
... And what fuel are you using in your car?
Th,Th,Th, ... That's all, Folks!
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Silver Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 721
Registered: Aug-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 05:17 pm: |
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Oooh dat wascally wabbit . . .
"I think some of us have found that, if you simplify, with the right vintage gear, you don't need all those channels and hi-rez to get the music right."
Rick, what you mean is:
"I think some of us have found that, if we simplify, with the right vintage gear, we don't need all those channels and hi-rez to get the music right."
with the emphasis on the word "some"
Oh I finally get it: you guys are Amish :-) |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 06:01 pm: |
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http://www.leedselect.com/images-advertisments/rca_ad_june1931.jpeg
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Silver Member Username: Rick_b
New York
USA
Post Number: 506
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 06:07 pm: |
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Last Things Above!
Too bad about Mr. Stevens..........I think he was part of the human race once.
Every political party has it's embarrassments. We have Rush, you have Reverend Al. Let's call it a draw and move on.
I'll vote YES on the tax attorneys.............
On the subject ok kangaroos............I DIDN"T NEED TO KNOW THAT EITHER.
(does it sound anything like the screaming of a lamb Clarise)?
The cd player as a resonance control...............very funny Jan, Very funny!
As far as chucking all the equipment, and making our own music...........................You obviously never heard me sing.
Oh, you think we're Amish...............I don't know, I'll have to ask Jan if they have NUNS! |
Silver Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 723
Registered: Aug-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:12 pm: |
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Okay, lap it up old dogs . . .
Kegger - when 7.1 channels is not enough . . .
see:http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=13855778 |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:21 pm: |
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Kegger, if you haven't found it yet ( depending on what "it" is):
http://www.worldtubeaudio.com/
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:26 pm: |
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For anyone who has never run acroos Harvey Rosenberg:
http://www.meta-gizmo.com/
and from that site, just because:
http://www.meta-gizmo.com/Tri/RRM/KILL.html
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:31 pm: |
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"Every political party has it's embarrassments. We have Rush, you have Reverend Al. Let's call it a draw and move on."
It's a draw, but I'd rather have the drugs Rev. Al is on, at least he cracks a good joke.
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:34 pm: |
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Sorry, I got all caught up in my great retort to Rick and Rev Al.
"Oh, you think we're Amish...............I don't know, I'll have to ask Jan if they have NUNS!"
Of course they don't. The Amish don't believe in anything that uses power!
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 07:39 pm: |
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From The Gizmo pages that you might overlook:
To fulfill my tribal responsibility to our young, brave and beaudacious, I shall reveal one more of my cunning audio hunting tricks.
HOT GLUE, LIKE YOU
As a cunning young hunter I recognized that my mother, who was an artist, had a valuable skill …she was into the hot glue gun in very creative ways. I don't think there was anything that she didn't try to stick together in her search for a new objet d'art. For a professional gizmologist, work with audio gizmos would be impossible without the hot glue gun. The tube savant must master two different weapons…the hot soldering iron, the hot glue gun…and it is the responsibility of every father to teach their son how to use these tools.
TUBE CREATION OF CEREMONIAL TRIBAL GARB: This is the secret substance for creating Tube Crowns, and attaching tubes to your clothes, hats, furniture. To impress your fellow workers hot glue a tube to a tie. If you are single and hanging out at bars, hot glue a tube to each of your collar points…and check out what happens.
VINYLMANIACS MANNA: Nothing is better for attaching your phono cartridge to your headshell in terms of 100 percent mechanical connection. Make sure the glue is super hot so you only have to use a very ULTRA thin layer. Press the cartridge body to the tonearm with great force. Hot glue is also one of the best tuning materials for the Decca cartridge. Any moving magnet cartridge that has a removal stylus…use a tiny glob of hot glue to the side of cartridge body where the removable style makes contact with the magnet structure. What is so cool about hot glue is you can easily pop it free. Use hot glue on your tone arm as dampening…try bands and spots. A few tiny dabs will keep your record mat in place. Why is hot glue such a great dampening device? Drop a stick and see how dead it is, and it perfectly bonds to the surface it is applied to.
SPEAKERMANICS. Use for attaching felt to your speaker faces. Use for building your external passive crossovers. Hot glue on film capacitors can make them sound better. Use to attach better dampening material to the inside of your speaker cabinets.
LINE STAGES/PHONO SECTIONS: If you are going to retro-fit grid chokes, or plate chokes, or capacitors, hot glue can be sued to them in place either on the chassis or PC board.
DIY PROJECTS: Key your soldering iron and your hot glue gun hot, because you can use that hot and sticky stuff to keep wires, parts and connections in their places. I use to keep heavy parts, like plate chokes, the interstage transformers in place while I am building my prototypes.
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Silver Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 726
Registered: Aug-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 08:02 pm: |
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I have always lived by the Eschatological Laundry List.
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Silver Member Username: Rick_b
New York
USA
Post Number: 507
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 08:04 pm: |
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OK all you dogs..........here's a new trick!
For some time now, Pierre from Mapleshade Records has been telling me to get my Spendors off the metal sand filled stands, and on the floor using a one inch block of wood under the front of the speaker for time align purposes. If tou utilize one of their brass iso cone points better still.
Well I tried this today and all is can say is................WOW, what a difference. I am fimiliar with the "Allison" effect caused by high mounted woofers, but this is just amazing. This position makes a small speaker sound hugh. At first I thought I had put the Velodyne back into the chain. The sudden bass power was astounding. The sounstage widened dramatically. Percussion and vocals just lit up.
I urge anyone with bookshelf speakers to give this a try and report back to me and tell me what you think. Is this guy on to something ?
Any opinion on this Jan? This is no subtle difference here. |
Silver Member Username: Arnold_layne
Madrid
Spain
Post Number: 146
Registered: Jun-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 08:24 pm: |
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Rick, what is this "Allison effect"?
Thanks in advance
AL |
Silver Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 727
Registered: Aug-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 08:34 pm: |
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Arnold,
Try http://www.allisonacoustics.com |
Silver Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 728
Registered: Aug-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 08:39 pm: |
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Rick,
Does the flooring material make a difference with your 'new trick' - bare wood, tiles, carpet etc.
I have noticed some floorstanding speakers on short stands that tilt them back slightly (my brother has a pair of Kriks like this). I wonder if this is why? |
Silver Member Username: Rick_b
New York
USA
Post Number: 508
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 09:11 pm: |
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Rantz,
I did my testing on natural hardwood floors. Mapleshade says if used on carpeting to put a maple slab 2" to 4" thick under the speaker. Use carpet piercing conepoints to drain internal vibes.
Yes, your brother is using time-aligned stands. |
Silver Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 731
Registered: Aug-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 10:08 pm: |
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Speaking of Pierre:
Pierre, after taking his fiancee for a ride in his new Citroen, decided to park as he wanted to make love to her.
She said, "Non, non Pierre. Eet iz too publique here!"
Pierre replied, "Ah mon sweet Cherie, zis is ze new Citroen with ze pump-up suspension. We can make ze love under ze automobile."
So Pierre and his fiancee climbed under the car, threw their clothes off and immediately began to make passionate love. A few minutes later, Inspector Clousseu arrives on the scene and spots Pierre's strange behaviour.
Clousseu, looking around says: "Ah, Pierre iz zat your new red Citroen?"
Pierre, taken aback by the sudden intrusion, replied, "Inspector, oui, indeed it iz,"
Clousseu: "Pierre, can you tell me what eet iz that you are doing with ze girl down there?"
Pierre, thinking quickly responded, "Ah Inspector, I am showing mon cherie the Citroen's new big shiny drive shaft."
Clousseu, with a grin, says, " Ah Pierre, I suggest you be more careful next time. You should not play with ze drive shaft. It must be why ze Citroen has rolled down ze hill." |
Silver Member Username: Rick_b
New York
USA
Post Number: 509
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 10:42 pm: |
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Tres Bien! LOL |
Gold Member Username: John_a
Post Number: 2171
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:20 pm: |
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MR,
Pure pleasure. But what is the ELL (Eschatological Laundry List)? Perhaps you have been waiting for this question, or perhaps I have missed something. Again.
Jan,
John - Did the second link work for you?
Yes, thank you. Brilliant. I wrote several very heavy things in reply, but decided not to post them. "No change there, then" seemed a bit flip. Another time, another thread. The connection with the topic in hand eluded me, even though I can usually find a link between multi-channel vs stereo and virtually anything. The Brecht-Weill team was world class, no question. If that was the link to which you refer! I cannot keep up with this roller-coaster of a thread. |
Silver Member Username: Myrantz
Post Number: 732
Registered: Aug-04
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:27 pm: |
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John A
"But what is the ELL"
Lower link posted bt Mr Vigne, September 29, 2004 - 07:26 pm: |
Gold Member Username: John_a
Post Number: 2175
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:46 pm: |
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MR,
Thanks. I see. The only missing item is
• Never trust aphorisms, especially when presented in lists. |
Gold Member Username: John_a
Post Number: 2176
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:48 pm: |
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Also missing:
• Always run a spell-checker. You will be surprised what it can find. |
Gold Member Username: Kegger
MICHIGAN
Post Number: 1562
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 11:53 pm: |
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rantz: loved the link.
"Kegger - when 7.1 channels is not enough . . .
"
oooooohhhhh 12 channels i'm salavating.
jan: saw the flying post liked it. and yes i have
mastered both guns. "glue and solder" wonderous tools!
...................................
tilting a speaker backwards is to try an line up each drivers center
position in realtion to the distance from listener.
meaning that normally a woofers center position
is farther inside the cabinet then a tweeter so
by tilting the speaker backwards you move the tweeter backwards
to the same distance from listening position as the woofer.
that is why you will see some spaekers have a tilted face plate.
like the spica's that jan and i have discussed.
......................................
rants let the rest have their 2 channel "oh yah we have that too"
we will enjoy both are 2 channel and multi in the same setup.
and enjoy both equally!
peace out!
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Gold Member Username: John_a
Post Number: 2177
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 12:34 am: |
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Kegger,
Arnold (see above) mentions building speakers on What does "DVD-audio" mean here? and I don't think you've posted on that thread, so may not know.
Personally I am sceptical about "supertweeters". I know I can't hear above 14 kHz. Our children can hear a bit beyond 16 kHz. To me, 20 kHz seems like plenty of high-frequency headroom, for anyone. I think the pleasure from hi-res formats comes from the detail and resolution, not from suddenly hearing ultra-sound. Having said that, I have never heard a speaker with a supertweeter. My old KEF Corellis go to 40 kHz (they come from analogue days) and they sound wonderful, but I don't think that is the reason. Any views?
Thought I'd put that here, Arnold. |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 12:46 am: |
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John - Here are two people who helped put me on the far left bottom of the Political Compass. Piscator and Meyerhold.
Brecht was a egoist as much as those he protested against. But he was on the side of the common man no matter what his ego wanted to accomplish. Most of his ideas of theatre and dramaturgy were taken from Erwin Piscator, with whom he had worked in Germany before the exodus of artists to America and before he worked with Weill. Piscator was more of a laborer in the trenchs of agitprop theatre, where he presented the ideals of Marxism that appealled to him. (Marxism as a "common man" ideal as it was first persented.) Brecht, as a playwright, garnered more attention from the press but both men caught the attention of Hitler.
Probably if Brecht had not teamed with Lotte Lenya and Weill he would not be as well known as he is today. (Though "Mother Courage" deserves a read every now and again.) Brecht came to America and restaged many of the plays that drew attention to his form of Theatre in Germany. Piscator moved on in the States and made many of Shakespeare's plays into pieces of Political Mass Spectacle. One of my professors in undergrad (Doctor Kluth) counted as one of his glowing moments in Theatre when he was a spear carrier in a Piscator production.
Piscator:
http://www.citycol.com/perfdesn/Piscator.htm
"Aims:
Piscator as a revolutionary Marxist was aiming to created a new form of theatre. A theatre which is part of the social struggle:
"The business of revolutionary theatre is to take reality as its point of departure and to magnify the social discrepancy, making it an element of our indictment, our revolt, our new order." The Political Theatre p187. The social struggle culminates in the rising up of the working class (proletariat) to take power from the ruling class, as had happened in Russia in 1917. In Russia, particularly in the work of Meyerhold, a theatre had been created which reflected the revolutionary ideology.
This took two forms:
Agitprop - short for agitation-propaganda. This is a form of political cabaret in which short sketches and songs are put together with the sole purpose of inciting a (mainly partisan audience) to political action. It is essentially a mobile form which needs to be set up anywhere its audience is so it depends on a minimum of scenery and props.
Mass Spectacles - public celebrations in the form of vast pageants of revolution involving casts of thousands. These were mainly staged in Leningrad, culminating in Meyerhold’s re-enactment of the storming of the winter palace (the turning point of the Bolshevik revolution) on its third anniversary in 1920. This was almost like the staging of a medieval mystery play with stations either side of the palace:
"Events leading up to the fighting were depicted on two stepped platforms either side of the square - with the White leaders portrayed as caricatures by professional actors in contrast to the unified group of Reds - and the confrontation between the forces of good and evil took place in the palace between. Silhouettes of hand-to-hand combat filled all the lighted windows behind white blinds, spilled out over the square. Searchlights swept over the masses figures (2,865 performers were required for the White platform alone, and three to four times that number for the revolutionaries, with red army infantry and motorised units taking part) the gunfire came from warships moored in the river."
Meyerhold:
http://max.mmlc.northwestern.edu/~mdenner/Drama/directors/1meyerhold.html
"By the mid-1930s, Meyerhold's relentless experimentation was no longer in favor. His theater was harshly criticized and then closed in 1938. Meyerhold himself was arrested in 1939 and shot in prison in 1940."
Shostakovich had a familiarity with Meyerhold, and, of course, the fate of those artists who dared Stalin to dislike them. And listening to Shostakovich's various portrayals of the proletariat uprisings we know how succesful many of those were. But putting Shostakovich in the context of Meyerhold was one of my interests in my youth.
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 12:56 am: |
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This is from a link on a post under "Phono" put on by the administrator. Read the first two paragraphs of the ad copy:
http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R06/R0627-72dpi.jpeg
How much of a monthly paycheck was $550 when this ad ran?
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 01:05 am: |
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http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R05/R0584-72dpi.jpeg
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Gold Member Username: John_a
Post Number: 2181
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 01:12 am: |
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Jan,
No time right now but will read and report back. Many thanks. I recall there is now a Brecht "museum" in the house he staged plays in, in former E. Berlin. It is now an old-fashioned German restaurant, too. |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 01:18 am: |
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Kegger - Goodbye to triodes:
http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R02/R0240-72dpi.jpeg
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 01:23 am: |
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An early surge protector:
http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R03/R0374-72dpi.jpeg
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 01:32 am: |
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http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R01/R0141-72dpi.jpeg
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 01:36 am: |
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http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R10/R1063-72dpi.jpeg
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Gold Member Username: Kegger
MICHIGAN
Post Number: 1563
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 01:47 am: |
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jan are you pulling these ads from the wallpapaer
on your bathroom wall?
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Gold Member Username: Kegger
MICHIGAN
Post Number: 1564
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 01:48 am: |
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or are these clips from the latest mags you've read? lol
kidding of'course. |
J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 02:04 am: |
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Once you've read one you've read them all for the next 75 years. The ad copy is great stuff.
Here's an early HK just before they brought out the first "all in one" reciever. According to the ad copy, owning an HK was better than listening to live music with all those annoying hall resonances:
http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/dynaweb/adaccess/radio/1950-1956/@Generic__BookTextView/3405
There's terrific stuff in there, particularly when you get to the ads from the 50's.
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 02:22 am: |
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Check out some of the other articles here:
http://www.tubeaudio.com/page11.html
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J. Vigne Unregistered guest |
| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 04:41 pm: |
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Rick - As to the Mapleshade tweak -
I have seen the idea in the Mapleshade catalog for a while now and, of course, was interested in anything that simple. I remember when I was selling Double Advent systems, speaker stands were just starting to become a tweak item. The first speaker stands we sold for the Advents were simple wooden blocks that tilted the Advent back a few degrees and placed its front edge about 3-4" off the floor. It made a very noticeable difference in that set up.
But the "Allison effect" seems to be a bit of a misnomer, particularly in this application. What Roy Allison used as a theory was more a specified location for the woofer in relation to the reflective room boundaries. His speakers placed the woofer at the intersection of three room boundaries to gain as much bass boost from the room as possible and that allowed him to design for a given space his woofers worked into. This wasn't exactly new in the world of speaker design. Using that natural bass boost meant he didn't have to push his drivers as hard for the amount of sound he achieved. Certainly the most famous proponent of placing the woofer in the corner at a specified height from the floor is Paul Klipsch with his Cornerhorns which were designed in the mid 40's. JBL and ALTEC used the concept in their floor standing speakers of the 50's and 60's. Here's an ad for the Patrician, look at the shape of the enclosure and where the speaker is placed in the illustration at the top left corner:
http://scriptorium.lib.duke.edu/adaccess/R/R04/R0432-72dpi.jpeg
I still have a pair of the original Boston Acoustics A200's from 1977 in a closet and they used a similar idea that was combined with the older concept of infinite baffle as utilized in the 40's and 50's. The woofer is, like the Allison's, placed at the very bottom of the cabinet to define the space the driver worked into.
I have tried my speakers, several different bookshelves that I have, on a system similar to what Mapleshade describes though instead of maple I have tried oak and marble for the bases with ordinary TipToes under them. I have rather mixed felings about the set up because I have had mixed results. For one thing I think your Spendors go deeper in the bass than anything I own. But the bass extension wasn't really an issue for me. After living with the LS3/5a's and the Spicas for years I haven't got a need for more bass from my speakers. And the placement on the floor creates a 1/2 pi space for the speaker to work into so there will be a 3dB boost to the bass. (What the "Allison Effect" describes is a 9 dB boost from the 1/8 pi space.) Now the bass is tighter than many other placements because, as Mr. Allison describes, the wavefront of the woofer is not having a cancellation from a reflected surface. (This same idea is used on the other end of the recording chain with the PZM miocrophones that use the boundary of the floor for reinforcement and the phase coherence of the signal to get excellent results from a mid priced mic.) So I've gained a bit more bass and it has stayed tight with no bloat. That should qualify as an improvement in anyone's book of tricks.
My problems come in relation to the soundstage the speakers create when they are in such a low position. 90% of the time I can find the soundstage quite acceptable and at least the equal to what I have with speakers on stands. Depth is good and localization is good. I have had a problem, though, on some recordings where the image/soundstage height is moved down towards the floor when the speakers sit low. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does it really catches my attention. I seem to get not a better, but a more consistent soundstage with my speakers on stands. The other thing that sometimes bothers me about the floor position is the "floating" quality to voices. I can tell they are centrally located (or wherever the exist in the stage) but instead of being locked into a very small space that sounds like a voice they seem disconnected from any space. They are "there" but not right "there". And this happens in the course of a song. One of my problems could be the slight rise in the midbass that affects male vocals on the LS3/5a's. It is notorious for what it does right and what it does wrong. That appears to be designed out of the new Spendors.
This placement is certainly convenient and has, at this point, just those two downsides. Once I get this back room set up I'm going to try this placement again because I haven't really worked with it enough to decide if it will work for my system. I think listener height might also affect the sound I get and I may need a different chair for this set up. I like it enough to give it a try because of the benefits I hear but I just don't know if it will work out for me. I would sugest anyone who is interested try this placement to hear what benefits you have from a very simple idea. For the time it takes, you may find, like Rick did, that there is a great new sound from your system waiting to be heard. I'd like to hear some more feeback on this from others.
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Silver Member Username: Rick_b
New York
USA
Post Number: 511
Registered: Dec-03
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| Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 07:00 pm: |
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Jan,
Thank you f |
